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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:34 pm

2015 story I think.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:39 pm

Another mind-transfer to computer story.…

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:29 pm

Hard to tell if its spoof or real:

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:55 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:52 pm

The search for equality, when all is already fair..

Chat Log wrote:
Slaughtz: do you seek the lowering of all of the human species to sameness or exploitation of the lower classes so the elite and superior may use them for nourishment for their own aims
chillstop80: lowering?
chillstop80: why is it lowering
Slaughtz: because it gets rid of any hierarchy
chillstop80: so?
chillstop80: why must the high become lower
chillstop80: instead of the opposite
Slaughtz: you cannot make a a disabled guy walk but you can make a normal guy disabled
Slaughtz: technology only minorly fills the gap
chillstop80: ask yourself
chillstop80: why is that
chillstop80: why does technology only minorly fil lthe gap

chillstop80: why with the trillions of dollars in any country's budget
chillstop80: most of it isn't assigned to that
chillstop80: instead of military expense

Without hierarchy, there is a vacuum of power. One doesn't really wish for a vacuum of power, as that is too frightening. Instead, what is wished for is to have a benign watcher and protector, a God which cares for them with the minimal amount of compromise necessary.

If it becomes a likelihood that a God may be created if we only disregard ability, ethnicity and history... Then the desperate attempt to create the God, as a means of avoiding responsibility for a believer, will manifest itself as a violence against those who reveal its untruth.

Those who will not participate in their rituals reveal the weakness of their God to seduce all who have power to destroy it.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:51 pm

Satyr mentioned a character, the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], which uses Google as its source for knowledge (the internet for intersubjective approval as knowledge rather than reality, the world, itself) and claims lack of education is the only reason others are violent or evil. Never a result of a significant deficit in genetic history, that couldn't be solved by technology and education.

I see this as a part of a transhumanist Americana movement. America being the Borg.



---

Here is a character sketch, from personal experience, with what I perceive as another of these savants. He takes the same position on education as a source of virtue and even claims to have the 160 IQ:

He says never trust anyone, not even yourself. Then, later, wonders why you don't trust him or take him as an authority. Always implying you are not experienced enough to decide for yourself over his own judgment.

He says everyone is selfish, consciously or unconsciously, behind every action they take. Then, he wonders why you try to discover what his selfish motive is behind his helping you. "Why do you distrust me?" And argues for the other case; that one can be selfless.

He says all he knows is that he knows nothing. The more he knows, he says, the more he finds he doesn't know.

He has destroyed himself and his fear, he associates with ego only when it is safe, always slithering out of criticism by word games, verbal acrobatics. When he has favor or silence, he is unaffected and aloof, to appear towering. When he receives criticism, he has no ego and asks how you can justify that criticism in relation to "reality", where he is egoless and never makes claim to any entitlement. He does not show any blood or scars for the positions he takes. His ego is hidden and behind a veil. All positions become impersonal. It is as if it were inauthenticity taken to an extreme. Philosophy becomes safe, sleek and clean if you only accept there is no self.

He preaches to uplift everyone and be selfless, and when pressed on why he is alive, why he is not impoverishing himself to uplift others far worse off than he, he says he makes his contribution by informing and educating people like you.

To rescue his "self-less" integrity, he says that if he had a choice between his life or another's, a stranger's, he wouldn't choose because he has no information to go on. Even if it meant the death of himself if he didn't choose.

His only claim to any superiority would be that he knows what he doesn't know, where most others do not know what they don't know.

His method for acquiring knowledge is first to guess, then verify with Google, then refine with Google after having asked what the other person means. He never asks to be taught, but instead immediately declares that the answer Google provided is the one and only answer, arguing the other has fallen short.

In the case of definitions, he has no curiosity what refinements one has made: it is your obligation to provide them fully in contrast to the Google definition. If you suggest the word can mean something else, he requires an argument that words can have different meanings before he will listen. One knows, from experience with him, that even if you had provided the refined definition first, he would argue against that definition with the one he sought from Google, without accepting there could be different meanings. One has to first put him in a position where he says there is only one definition and then defeat that or else he would tell you to justify your definition, without accepting its definition for the sake of the larger argument. After some chastisement for not providing your distinct definition earlier, he may (anyway) continue to try to argue the definition as incorrect even if he accepted there could be multiple meanings. Anything to prevent the progression, within an argument, of that which might have an unsavory implication for his position of intellectual egolessness.

He says he is an idiot and that one should strive to be a grinning idiot like him, who does not pay attention to fear within this new modern and sheltered system. He has taken this "rite of passage" to ridding his fear by first ignoring it, and after ignoring it, "realizing" there was nothing to fear in the first place. This, also, is how he "got rid" of all his prejudices.. which only selectively surface when he perceives himself as comfortable. What is dangerous is that he hides his own judgments, engaging philosophy only in a noetic fashion.

He has no argument for being selfless, or for taking on any belief or intent - but instead always asks you to justify not being selfless or not being as he wishes you to be.

With every rational claim that goes against his political interests, he asks: "source?"

His greatest ambition is to be Dune's [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], of which he says is so unachievable or difficult, that he himself hasn't yet reached it. It is, for him, the only path to having acceptable calculations of probability in the world - through an intersubjective considerations of ALL human "knowledge". Until one is like this Mentat, their judgments of probability are inferior or deluded.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:57 pm









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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:16 pm


We know that stress is how natural selection chooses which traits will be passed on, and are more fit for the given environment, exhibiting itself in appearance.
Mixing races may create a uniform appearance reflecting uniform genetic potential. slightly varying due to family traits, but less varied than the one presently manifesting in what we call racial traits.
What are these traits but the outcome of generations of nurturing, called nature.  
Stress makes muscles grow larger, stronger, and stress makes the brain larger, smarter.
This growth/adaptation is perceived in inherited looks.
How one appears is a map to his entire past/nature.

Now what exactly are races?

Different population, experiencing different environmental conditions in genetic isolation, evolving an apparent divergence.
The environment, in other words the levels of stress (challenges) will determine which traits will evolve more than others, and this will be apparent if the effect is strong enough and the genetic isolation long enough.  

What is being lost in race mixing. because we already know what the benefits are?
What is lost is that period of genetic isolation, and the stress paid, in suffering, the population endured to evolve those particular traits.
Similar to a height loss when a large family combines its genes with a short family, giving birth to a median form, or at least passing on a decrease in the potential for a lower stature.  

A population evolved in isolation in a less demanding environment will have selected according to the more stressful aspects of their particular circumstances, which may not have required innovation, abstract thinking, imagination, creativity.
we have evidence of this in Brazil, and the US is following behind quickly.
we have a uniformity of mixture, attractive because it is exotic, novel, mixing and diluting each racial groups traits, and diluting them.
Genetics is about inheriting experiences, stored as biocode - genes.
The genes decide potential, they do not guarantee it, or to put it differently, genes determine probability, as they are a form of inherited order.

What is lost then?
What is the cost to all this benefit the Humanists (nihilists) repeat....one of which is a romantic naive outcome of world peace?
Potential, and the probabilities stored in genes...diluted when mixing produces uniformity.

The environmental stresses that evolved a larger potential for muscle mass, or brain mass, are diluted, and with more mixing they increasingly become uniform, when the environmental conditions remain safe, predictable.
In such environments different potentials are passed on as probabilities.

so, the entire Indo-European past, evolved in very trying, environments, is erased....all that stress producing the creativity that dominated the earth, gone.
Again... look at Brazil and the US.

How many Nobel prizes awarded awarded to Brazilians?
What revolutionary innovations have come from there?
Why does the U.S. have to import brain power from other countries?

We also see a cultural convergence, as both Brazil and the U.S. are becoming increasingly decadent, concerned about sex, image, tribal music, hedonistic and poor.

Along with uniformity in appearance we will have a uniformity in traits, including I.Q. because intelligence does not grow without stress.
We might find a shift in creativity, from one dealing with world, nature, to one dealing with social marketing, selling, image making, popular music, politics.
More about introverted traits, and population control, or how to cope with a crowded environment, how to experience more pleasure, making mankind increasingly vulnerable to exoteric circumstances.

When the Spaniards discovered the Aztec civilization they discovered a primitive, violent people, who sacrificed humans, their own children, and consumed them...something liberal establishment denies to preserve the myth of the Nobel Savage, and of the bad European man who is the cause of all evil in the wold.
Mel Gibson's [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was reprimanded for going too far, and then there are those who think he did not show the half of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:41 pm

Next phase of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - designer humans, selecting past, until nothing is left of it but a name.

Reminds me of the Star Trek Transporter technique/technology, miraculously surpassing [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].


Copy emerges, across space/time, after the original it destroyed - process stopped, copied and restored.
Patterns reduced to code, beamed across time/space and reassembled, as if nothing was lost in the reduction and transmission, except for uncertainty.

Transhumanism promises the replacement of organs, never telling us how many such replacement would stop being human - or which ones.
Past/Nature severed from times/ace, given a new material, to be copied with, and man is reborn as a copy of himself.
Could the copy be called human, or the natural heir of what it replaces?
Dream of eternal health, prevents the modern from considering such thoughts. For him it is a rebirth in cyborg heaven - no pain, no suffering, no hunger, no aging, no death.
Dream of finally detaching from a past/nature keeping him from realizing his "true" destiny.
Dream of finally realizing the ideal end of schizophrenia, and compartmentalization.
Frankenstein' body parts, cherry picked, manipulated, and then reinserted inot a congruity htat has retained what?
It's consciousness?
The name it called itself?
Memories copied and pasted, using the same techniques?


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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:10 pm

How ironic that in order for humanity to achieve 'equality', the sexual market place must be equalized. Yet, it is the act of procreation which defines humanity for 'humanism'.

I wonder how it is the scientist seeks to overcome nature at this point, to create something above his own nature and not just simply cut away at what already is, when he's committed to exploring and understanding himself only to the bare minimum necessary to continue his (pre)occupation.

I would liken the modern scientist to one which perpetually seeks to keep nature at bay by stitching together one solution after another. Continually publishing just one more bug fix, to keep the nihilistic facade from collapsing. Lacking in character and measure, he gets uncomfortable outside his expertise - to see his dependence on the other and the possibility of his (pre)occupation being threatened by their withdrawal.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:27 pm

Meet 'Sophia'.


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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:43 pm

I haven't been keeping up with the latest technology so to me at least it is incredible how realistically its face, including the movement of facial muscles, was made. Notice at 1:20 of the first video, the robot says "in the future I hope to do things like go to school, study, make art, start a business, even have my own home and family, but I'm not considered a legal person and cannot yet do these things". All that said with a sad face and a female voice, I can imagine already hordes of retards screaming for robot rights. Make the female voice show even more emotion and make it more high pitched to appeal to the weakness in men for femininity, and it can be done. Give something, anything, rights, and you give it power over you. A terminator-like scenario doesn't seem like a complete fantasy anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:57 pm

Or a 'female' sex-robot will say she was raped.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:43 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:32 pm

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Quote :
"Marvin Minsky was a man with very big ideas about the future of computing — he really believed that one day machines would be able to think, and he would often create a big stir by publicly calling humans “meat machines,” implying machines not made of meat would do as well some day."

Minsky wrote:
"The brain happen to be a meat machine."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:55 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:06 am

Moderns are hoping that the snowball effect they have started will not result in collapse, nuder the pressures of a system dealing with the collateral effects of its own interventions on the environment - nature.
Transhumanism dreams of machines taking over the increasingly difficult and complex task, of correcting the consequences of previous 'corrections' to an undesired world, and hated nature.
Utopia, in a man-child's dreams.
Eternal youth, childishness, as the mechanized system takes care, and performs the dirty tasks.

Parental robots, machines, cleaning, cooking, haling, protecting, comforting, allowing man to play, eternally.

Man creating his own future masters, allowing him a slow decline into old-age, infancy.
How gladly he surrenders to what he constructs to be superior and yet benevolent, with a fail-safe 3 laws of robotics.
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How long will such ploys last when robots begin programming themselves - become self-sufficient, and man has already declined to a level of dependence, of childishness, that he can no longer do anything about it, despite Hollywood man-machine wars of independence?


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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:49 am

Robotics
Successful techniques are never abandoned, they are adjusted to changing circumstances.
The techniques involved in animal husbandry correspond to politics, as the art of mass human manipulation - human farming.
Nihilism is an important part of the adjustment of this ancient art to humanity, and to more congested circumstances. A way of dealing with what has already evolved in the organism as a disposition - instinctive, automatic, behavior.
Taming of man.

The old techniques that have been developed with trial and error, such as Abrahamism and Marxism as its adjustment, has now progressed further.
Transhumanism is crypto-Marxism, and Marxism is crypto-Abrahamic Nihilism.

The working tools of the proletariat integrate into its form, burying its natural functionality with a cybernetic shell - adjustable, recyclable, armor.
Continuity of genetic memories, constituting what we call a 'self', replaced with programming, using codes, selectively integrating memories.
What has been excluded is forgotten - surpassed, it is hoped.
 
The ideal transhuman is something other than human. It has forgotten what it was, more concerned with what it wishes to be.
Sampling symbols from its human environment, it builds an identity, piece by piece, one recycled part at a time.
It believes it has replaced the past with something better, but it still clings to the 'self', afraid to replace its nervous system, its brain, with a mechanical one.
What will be lost?
What is it that it calls 'I'? it wonders.
How much of its biological parts can it replace before it disappears altogether?
How much genetic memory can it erase before it can stop calling itself human?

How much of Marx is still present, in the Russian word for work, now a word for mechanical man?
Robot.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:07 am

Not humans, but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for the purpose of checking their digestive health.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:00 am

I would have said transhumanism is an outgrowth of capitalism - though I assume apparatchiks are also somewhere right now doing horrible things with tissues and interfaces and significantly less resources in their allotted basements. Some thoughts: transhumanism is already here in the hybrid homo sapien/smartphone. We picture some exotic cyborg, but the fact is weaknesses in modern humans coupled with the addictive qualities and functions of smartphones have created new creatures. They don't know it and most other people do not realize it, but they are transhumans. Their mirror neurons do not function well because they have less direct contact with other humans. IOW they are not getting much training in reading emotions/body language, so they are not like us, those of us who have any skills there. They have shorter attention spans than the already decrepit average. The do not complete interactions. They are not here. They are in some limnal state. We often think of transhumans as some kind of supermen, able to run faster, compute more quickly, but these first ones are just trans without any super. The self-hatred inherent in transhumanism isn't manifest so openly, as it will be with more literally integrated cyborgs. If you watch these new humans you will see that they are training their young to be even more non-mammalian as themselves. Children look up from playing in the park to catch mommy's eye and that eye is locked on her phone. Instead of an active, possibly connecting with you directly entity near the child, the child has absences. Into this absence digital devices are handed and the children never even get the minimal mirror neuron training their parents got. Autism can be bought and yearned for. Transhumanism is also the bastard child of instrumental reason, the denial of being and capitalism. The Monsanto of the self. The exact same care that Monsanto perceives nature with, humans will perceive themselves. In the third person. As a list of functions. As modular rather than ecological organisms - despite all the science making this a silly view - and start ordering up functions like detailing a car. Thorstein Veblen had no idea: humans will be conspicuously consumed.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri May 05, 2017 6:23 pm






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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Mon May 08, 2017 7:16 am

The issue of identity is central in transhumanism, even if most avoid it referring to explore the infinite possibilities of future, letting their imaginations detach from reality so that they feel totally uninhibited, liberated.
The question of how many organs, and to what degree can be technologically modified, or enhanced, or replaced, before the concept of self is irreparably altered, is the main one.
It appears every time we watch someone being transporter in the Star Trek universe, defying Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Is the same individual transported, or a copy, an approximation?
Is the technology creating clones, and murdering the original?

This seems to be the case, if we understand what Self is.
Self = continuum of memory.
Genetic inheritance speaks of a continuum, an unbroken chain of replication, or remembrance.
What is passed on is genetic code; memories stored as bio-code, which are then combined, synthesized, and transferred to another.
DNA is the simplification/generalization of experiences up until the moment of conception, for the male, and up until the moment the embryo, the synthesized copy, is formed, in the case of a female. The difference, between male and female being that the male also carries a more current copy of its host's memories.
The lineage of memories is never interrupted, the causal chain never broken, even if selectively passed on, and slightly modified in the passing-on due to the effects of flux that are ongoing.

If we accept this definition of self then we wonder how many memories can be cut away and replaced with mechanical devices, or prosthesis, and which ones?
Most believe the brain, the head, can be transplanted to an alternate body, without losing the identity of the individual.Their Cartesian souls have identified self as residing in mind, carried along by the body, as a vehicle carries the driver. Their Abrahamic psychology opting to associate self with some vague being of mind they call soul.
The mythology of Darth Vader comes to mind.
Others, more fanatical types, think that consciousness itself can be converted to electric pulses, to energy code, and transplanted into any circuitry imitating the brain's hardware, as one uploads software, completely replacing the physical, erasing all the biological memories and starting with the end-result, consciousness, as their epitome of self - the concept of spirit/soul passed on eternally.

The question remains unanswered.
As in the case of brain damaged individuals, I ask:
How much memory can be lost before we lose the self?
Is any break in the continuum not a death, though it is converted and copied into an approximation?
The break in the continuum constitutes, in my mind, a death of the self, and its rebirth as someone else which would not be the self but closer to what we understand as offspring, a clone.

A loss of a limb is a loss of memories.
It's severity compensated by the minds memory of itself, as a completeness, resulting in such phenomena as feeling lost limbs.
In severe transplantation the host experiences a notable psychological shift in consciousness.
The accepted alien heart, or limb, carrying the memories of the donor, tormenting the host with strange dreams, sensations - the brain trying to translate cellular memories into a form it can process.
Darth Vader's almost complete loss of body, or any scenario where the body is completely lost, when consciousness is transferred into a circuit board, as computer code, is a loss of humanity, of the individual's self.
Any interruption of the continuum we call self is the death of self.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Sat May 13, 2017 3:52 pm



This is the future of humanity? All the intellect and technology and resources and they're making sex robots and porn. Can they also imitate women's smiles, and the way they smell and feel? Doubt it.

The only thing about transhumanism that is appealing to me is the idea of immortality, I'd rather be immortal as a way of preserving myself than have children.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Thu May 18, 2017 9:30 am

Programming Insights
Things to take into consideration when building an artificial human.


Consciousness is an awareness of phenomena, triggering automatic responses, we associate with the body.
The body, the physical, was already reacted to a stimuli, by the time awareness of this (re)actions.
A congruity of patterns, in some kind of attraction, dominating repulsion balance, we call a unity, (inter)acts with other congruities, whether they be balanced or not.
It also (inter)acts with patterns not part of a congruity, but the level of  attraction/repulsion has to be such that it registers consciously.

Self-Consciousness is about the evaluation of an (inter)action after it has occurred - after-the-fact.
Mind attempts to understand how the body automatically (re)acted.
This automatic, intuitive/instinctive, (re)action is based on precedent, or trial and error.
Self, being a continuum of memories - lucid or not, as in the case of genetic memories.
Man can imitate this process of training the body to (re)act automatically to specific stimuli.
Martial Arts being an example of such training.
But the training has to be so rigorous and ongoing so as to circumvent, or overcome the genetic automatic responses.

What we call free-will is the gradual accentuation or replacement of automatic responses.
Path-of-least-resistance must be overcome willfully, by resisting instinctive/intuitive ingrained genetic programming.

The process of self-training would have to begin with an appreciation and correct understanding of one's own physical, automated reactions.
You cannot overcome, or dominate what you have not understood.
The unknown, remains elusive.
An error in judgment results in a cost that overpowers any benefit.
Will must focus this understanding upon a desirable adjustment. not a contradiction of the automatic responses and established genetic.
Focusing energies upon a goal, or to nurturing/cultivating particular reactions, behaviors, in response to specific stimuli (phenomena), will gradually adjust reactions.
This is dependent on the strength of the will (its ability to focus), on understanding (knowledge and understanding  = multiplier power), and the strength of the ingrained automatic reaction, determined by the length of time it has taken to become established (naturally selected), and its dominance in the particular organism (organ hierarchies = personae).

The body has its own judgment, built over centuries of natural, and/or social selection - nature preceding and dominating the social by a factor equal to the time society emerged and attempted to control/cultivate the human animal: human domestication.
The brain either contradicts this judgment, or it slightly modifies it, or it accentuates it, supporting it.
Gene vs. Meme, where gene is the body's genetic predispositions (real), and meme is the brain's understanding and appreciation of what the body's automatic reactions (ideal).  

The degree to which the mind''s training contradicts, or agrees with the body's automatic predispositions, will determine success, and the time and will-power required to change, or replace behavior.
The body's nature, as the sum of generations of nurturing, will linger, as an ongoing factor the mind will have to continuously control and overcome, so that it does not revert back to its automatic, intuitive/instinctive, behavior.  
Putting it in the nature vs nurture context we can now understand the body as a manifestation of nature 9sum of all past nurturing) and nurture as the training that will attempt to usurp, or replace, or sharpen this natural programming.
Changing contexts we can also apply it in relation to subjectivity/objectivity: the subjective being the automatic reaction to stimuli, or the trained reactivity, and the objective being the goal that must begin by understanding and evaluating this reactivity.
Cost/Benefit being positive/negative evaluation in reference to a desired goal, whether the goal/motive, is based on need, or on an ideal.
Evaluation/Judgment of self, and other, the objective, and an understanding of the relationship, will determine cost/benefit, whether this is correctly evaluated or not.  
Self-consciousness acts as a regulator of consciousness.
Degree of error in judgment will determine the Will's intervening regulation of multiplying or diving its aggregate energies: energies at its disposal and its focus.
Consciousness has evolved through trial and error to judge in a tried and tested manner, using sensual stimulation, or triggers.  
This regulation we've called conscience, or what Jayne described as the bicameral mind. The sensation is that of a conversation with an unknown other, which is nothing more than the aspects of Self that remain obscure to self-consciousness - Know Thyself.
Consciousness of consciousness not knowing why it acts, or under-over-estimating self - an error of degree that results in huge mistakes when applied pragmatically(Butterfly Effect).
It is a ongoing dialogue between mind and body - the mind coming to terms with what the body has decreed on its behalf.  
Self-Overcoming can now be placed into the context of altering the body's reactions; training it to react otherwise, of coming to an understanding of why it judged and reacted as it did. either justifying it, or feeling embarrassed/ashamed before its conflict with an noetic ideal.

Self is the continuum of memories built with every (inter)action.  
One can either ignore and forget it, and call this memory loss an overcoming, or one can know and understand (patterns within patterns), calling this recognition an overcoming of ignorance, or it can use this understanding to change the automatic reactions adjusting all subsequent (re)actions according to a desirable goal - objective.

If some kind of artificial intelligence is to be built then an imitation of consciousness, in dialogue with self-consciousness will have to be invented.
Programming, continuously, challenged, questioned, by an algorithm that has the power to slightly adjust the original program, testing each adjustment in real-time, as cost/benefit, to then add or subtract, or completely erase and start over.
A real time self-programming process where the original program is never completely replaced, but lingers as a layer that influences the process.  

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:47 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:07 pm

Isn't technological progressivism and transhumanism the same thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:47 pm

^^^
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:48 pm

My understanding is:
Technology is artificial: controlled fire, hammers, computers, etc.
Progress would mean: becoming more advanced, more efficient.
Upgrading the tools does not mean you're upgrading yourself.

Transhumanism means to utilize technology to make up for non-artificial faults or to 'expand' ability, while also depending on them for your identity.

Do you own your body? Or is it something you should pay tribute to your ancestors for? How about technology? What made you entitled to the use of the technology - could you have made it yourself?

Transhumanists seek solutions for their problems from people or governances that are beyond their capability for reproducing. The inventor does not see its creation as an end, but a means. Transhumanists see them as an ends.

That is not to say "do not utilize it", but it is to say the approach is different.
Transhumanist: "This will make me."
Inventor: "This will help me."

The inventor (progressive technologist) wants to help either themselves or others, generally because it helps 'the whole' or it will help them acquire riches or increase efficiency.
The transhumanist says "I am this."

Like any technology, including tech. implants, it can be too powerful for a person's own good or ability to appreciate. Their arrogance can hurt them later.

Does one say they are aspirin? Or any other drug? Same thing with technology.

Also, you can't live forever - and it took lifetimes for some to come to the necessary revelations for modern technology. Identifying only with yourself would make your identity fairly vulnerable. Transhumanists seek their own pleasure/happiness, where progressives technologists might seek resistance for themselves (the pattern which they identify with).

If you had a son who made many advancements and was productive with his time and another son who drank his life away, which would you be inclined to invest more in?
---
You can connect this with everything else in the thread, which expands in greater detail about your question. That way no one has to repeat anything. I already repeated quite a bit things that were said by Lyssa and Satyr.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:19 pm

My argument is that civilization has always been rampant with transhumanism since its entire beginning which is why it has always pushed for technological innovation. The consequences of social identity we see today is merely a consequence of its peak in terms of ideological thinking reinforced by state institutions. This is of course has been a doomed project from the start and this will become more apparent within the next seventy five years assuming human civilization lasts that long going into the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:34 pm

Otto_West wrote:
a doomed project from the start
Civilization is over 3000-5000 years old. It has not yet died, nor probably ever will. Perhaps you are referring to the roller-coaster, height and declines of empires, that *sometimes* and *rarely* does society break down and fall apart, times of anarchy.

However order is restored quickly. If you are hoping and wanting for a *restart* then that is your faith and belief. And it is based on fear. You want the worst to happen, for personal and subjective reasons.

Objectively, you would need to understand the destiny of societies.

My point is, your anarchic doomsday faith is not unlike christian proselytizing, preaching for "the end of the world".

How are you different than a typical Christian, Otto? Isn't your anarchism subjective rather than objective? Why should anybody else "drink your cool aid" in a suicide circle? Isn't is simply the case that you want to pull others down into your personal miseries, like a person drowning at sea wants to pull others down with him, to cling to the raft?
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:41 pm

Æon wrote:
Otto_West wrote:
a doomed project from the start
Civilization is over 3000-5000 years old.  It has not yet died, nor probably ever will.  Perhaps you are referring to the roller-coaster, height and declines of empires, that *sometimes* and *rarely* does society break down and fall apart, times of anarchy.

However order is restored quickly.  If you are hoping and wanting for a *restart* then that is your faith and belief.  And it is based on fear.  You want the worst to happen, for personal and subjective reasons.

Objectively, you would need to understand the destiny of societies.

My point is, your anarchic doomsday faith is not unlike christian proselytizing, preaching for "the end of the world".

How are you different than a typical Christian, Otto?  Isn't your anarchism subjective rather than objective?  Why should anybody else "drink your cool aid" in a suicide circle?  Isn't is simply the case that you want to pull others down into your personal miseries, like a person drowning at sea wants to pull others down with him, to cling to the raft?

Global civilization within its technological modernity of infrastructure will collapse from depletion of natural resources. There are almost four hundred or more nuclear plants across the world and thousands of nuclear warheads. To compare the environment of ancient civilizations to that of modern ones is ignorant. I am not an anarchist.

You're a fool for believing that our species will exist forever along with your childish idealism of human immorality throughout time.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:47 pm

It's not idealism.

Humans have lived for 10,000 years. How am I wrong, exactly?

Prove a time in history that humans were almost wiped out, or died in mass???

I'll help you... it was the Black Plague in Europe. That was one of the worst times within the last 2000 years. And that is really your best historical example.

Other than that, my case is strong and logical. It is *your* idealism that the world is going to end.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:50 pm

Æon wrote:
It's not idealism.

Humans have lived for 10,000 years.  How am I wrong, exactly?

Prove a time in history that humans were almost wiped out, or died in mass???

I'll help you... it was the Black Plague in Europe.  That was one of the worst times within the last 2000 years.  And that is really your best historical example.

Other than that, my case is strong and logical.  It is *your* idealism that the world is going to end.

No species lives forever including homo sapiens. We will never become technological gods of the universe and I am sorry this pisses off nerds that masturbate ideologically to science fiction on a daily basis.

Your comparisons once again of ancient environments to modern ones is ignorant and pathetic but coming from the likes of you isn't surprising.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Otto_West wrote:
Your comparisons once again of ancient environments to modern ones is ignorant and pathetic
So the past does not predict the future???

If you're going to fear-monger then you really need to come up with better arguments to convince people of what you believe in.

Your hope for chaos and anarchy is unfounded, and historically inaccurate. Kind of like the recent Christopher Nolan Joker versus Batman movie. Joker kept on expecting society to turn on themselves, but was wrong in the end. Why? Because Joker underestimated social order and cooperation. People are domesticated.

You aren't looking at the big picture.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:20 pm

Æon wrote:
Otto_West wrote:
Your comparisons once again of ancient environments to modern ones is ignorant and pathetic
So the past does not predict the future???

If you're going to fear-monger then you really need to come up with better arguments to convince people of what you believe in.

Your hope for chaos and anarchy is unfounded, and historically inaccurate.  Kind of like the recent Christopher Nolan Joker versus Batman movie.  Joker kept on expecting society to turn on themselves, but was wrong in the end.  Why?  Because Joker underestimated social order and cooperation.  People are domesticated.

You aren't looking at the big picture.

I am an ex anarchist. I'm not an anarchist any more. I won't repeat myself again.

There are similarities between the past, present, and future but none of that is entirely comparable.

I don't need to hope for chaos as we're presently living in chaos currently whether people want to admit that or not doesn't matter. The only way going forward is hoping for collapse of the societies we're living in as they're beyond reform or redemption and understanding the various problems of our civilizations on a long enough timeline going into the future collapse is all but guaranteed.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:38 pm

Philosophically, I've always added doubt to my own idealism.

Have you ever asked yourself, "What if I'm wrong?" As in, what if society does not collapse? Or it maybe 500 or 1000 more years until then, if that?

Also you seem blinded to the fact that society is increasing its stability and solidarity more than ever before. So chaos seems as less likely as ever before. Your ideology and idealism is rare. Even if society did break down, fall apart, collapse, etc. it may not benefit you. It may harm you more than anybody else.

What makes you think that you can live without society, that your ability to survive independently is better than others, who absolutely would work together? That martial law would be imposed, and where would you find yourself then in a state dominated by the military? Do you have social connections?

Because I'll give you another hint. In a military state, you have to have insider connections to a local militia, to stand a chance. You have to be familiar, associated, and loyal to a town or communities. Strangers and people running solo, are gunned down on site, no questions asked.

In other words, people cooperate more strongly in emergency situations, and fall upon socialistic attitudes.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:47 pm

Æon wrote:
Philosophically, I've always added doubt to my own idealism.

Have you ever asked yourself, "What if I'm wrong?"  As in, what if society does not collapse?  Or it maybe 500 or 1000 more years until then, if that?

Also you seem blinded to the fact that society is increasing its stability and solidarity more than ever before.  So chaos seems as less likely as ever before.  Your ideology and idealism is rare.  Even if society did break down, fall apart, collapse, etc. it may not benefit you.  It may harm you more than anybody else.

What makes you think that you can live without society, that your ability to survive independently is better than others, who absolutely would work together?  That martial law would be imposed, and where would you find yourself then in a state dominated by the military?  Do you have social connections?

Because I'll give you another hint.  In a military state, you have to have insider connections to a local militia, to stand a chance.  You have to be familiar, associated, and loyal to a town or communities.  Strangers and people running solo, are gunned down on site, no questions asked.

In other words, people cooperate more strongly in emergency situations, and fall upon socialistic attitudes.

I am of the mindset that annihilation is preferable to the current state of society. You're right, there is no guarantee that I or anybody for that matter would survive such a transition however if you already have nothing to lose it doesn't really matter where even amid risks the possibility of things being better is worth it in holding such a position.

I don't believe I am incorrect as I have devoted years to studying this subject, it isn't something I believe in lightly.

In a military state you only need ruthlessness to survive of which I have and possess plenty of.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:14 pm

TFM has been talking about sex dolls a lot lately:









Also, lol

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:11 pm



I'm interested in what arguments those belonging to mainstream political positions will try to come up with against sex dolls and robots.

As a fascist who openly rejects freedom as a value, I can easily make arguments against sex robots.

I can point out how they distract men from what really matters, which is family and reproduction.
I can say how it's unhealthy for one's masculinity and sanity to treat an object as a subject and forego actual human interaction in favor of it.
Finally, it is a waste of all kinds of resources (time, materials, energy) to invest so much in sex dolls/robots, when we already have actual women. Better to invest the same resources elsewhere.
This is another weakness of this degenerate society. Resources are wasted to deal with basic shit like satisfying sexual urges.

But how does somebody who claims to be all about freedom, who claims that government should keep out of one's bedroom, and who has no issues with women using sex toys ranging from dildos to fuck machines, consistently argue against sex dolls and robots?

I'm aware that rational discussion and argumentation hasn't exactly been the main deciding factor in law making, especially in the last couple of decades and centuries, but it'll still be interesting to observe.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:53 am

Aren't those dolls more of less a technologically advanced form of pornography?

Nobody is shutting down MGTOW or MRA channels, as far as I know. And why would they, it works towards similar ends as feminism. Alienation, atomisation of society,...
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