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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyFri May 05, 2017 3:23 pm






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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyMon May 08, 2017 4:16 am

The issue of identity is central in transhumanism, even if most avoid it referring to explore the infinite possibilities of future, letting their imaginations detach from reality so that they feel totally uninhibited, liberated.
The question of how many organs, and to what degree can be technologically modified, or enhanced, or replaced, before the concept of self is irreparably altered, is the main one.
It appears every time we watch someone being transporter in the Star Trek universe, defying Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Is the same individual transported, or a copy, an approximation?
Is the technology creating clones, and murdering the original?

This seems to be the case, if we understand what Self is.
Self = continuum of memory.
Genetic inheritance speaks of a continuum, an unbroken chain of replication, or remembrance.
What is passed on is genetic code; memories stored as bio-code, which are then combined, synthesized, and transferred to another.
DNA is the simplification/generalization of experiences up until the moment of conception, for the male, and up until the moment the embryo, the synthesized copy, is formed, in the case of a female. The difference, between male and female being that the male also carries a more current copy of its host's memories.
The lineage of memories is never interrupted, the causal chain never broken, even if selectively passed on, and slightly modified in the passing-on due to the effects of flux that are ongoing.

If we accept this definition of self then we wonder how many memories can be cut away and replaced with mechanical devices, or prosthesis, and which ones?
Most believe the brain, the head, can be transplanted to an alternate body, without losing the identity of the individual.Their Cartesian souls have identified self as residing in mind, carried along by the body, as a vehicle carries the driver. Their Abrahamic psychology opting to associate self with some vague being of mind they call soul.
The mythology of Darth Vader comes to mind.
Others, more fanatical types, think that consciousness itself can be converted to electric pulses, to energy code, and transplanted into any circuitry imitating the brain's hardware, as one uploads software, completely replacing the physical, erasing all the biological memories and starting with the end-result, consciousness, as their epitome of self - the concept of spirit/soul passed on eternally.

The question remains unanswered.
As in the case of brain damaged individuals, I ask:
How much memory can be lost before we lose the self?
Is any break in the continuum not a death, though it is converted and copied into an approximation?
The break in the continuum constitutes, in my mind, a death of the self, and its rebirth as someone else which would not be the self but closer to what we understand as offspring, a clone.

A loss of a limb is a loss of memories.
It's severity compensated by the minds memory of itself, as a completeness, resulting in such phenomena as feeling lost limbs.
In severe transplantation the host experiences a notable psychological shift in consciousness.
The accepted alien heart, or limb, carrying the memories of the donor, tormenting the host with strange dreams, sensations - the brain trying to translate cellular memories into a form it can process.
Darth Vader's almost complete loss of body, or any scenario where the body is completely lost, when consciousness is transferred into a circuit board, as computer code, is a loss of humanity, of the individual's self.
Any interruption of the continuum we call self is the death of self.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptySat May 13, 2017 12:52 pm



This is the future of humanity? All the intellect and technology and resources and they're making sex robots and porn. Can they also imitate women's smiles, and the way they smell and feel? Doubt it.

The only thing about transhumanism that is appealing to me is the idea of immortality, I'd rather be immortal as a way of preserving myself than have children.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyThu May 18, 2017 6:30 am

Programming Insights
Things to take into consideration when building an artificial human.


Consciousness is an awareness of phenomena, triggering automatic responses, we associate with the body.
The body, the physical, was already reacted to a stimuli, by the time awareness of this (re)actions.
A congruity of patterns, in some kind of attraction, dominating repulsion balance, we call a unity, (inter)acts with other congruities, whether they be balanced or not.
It also (inter)acts with patterns not part of a congruity, but the level of  attraction/repulsion has to be such that it registers consciously.

Self-Consciousness is about the evaluation of an (inter)action after it has occurred - after-the-fact.
Mind attempts to understand how the body automatically (re)acted.
This automatic, intuitive/instinctive, (re)action is based on precedent, or trial and error.
Self, being a continuum of memories - lucid or not, as in the case of genetic memories.
Man can imitate this process of training the body to (re)act automatically to specific stimuli.
Martial Arts being an example of such training.
But the training has to be so rigorous and ongoing so as to circumvent, or overcome the genetic automatic responses.

What we call free-will is the gradual accentuation or replacement of automatic responses.
Path-of-least-resistance must be overcome willfully, by resisting instinctive/intuitive ingrained genetic programming.

The process of self-training would have to begin with an appreciation and correct understanding of one's own physical, automated reactions.
You cannot overcome, or dominate what you have not understood.
The unknown, remains elusive.
An error in judgment results in a cost that overpowers any benefit.
Will must focus this understanding upon a desirable adjustment. not a contradiction of the automatic responses and established genetic.
Focusing energies upon a goal, or to nurturing/cultivating particular reactions, behaviors, in response to specific stimuli (phenomena), will gradually adjust reactions.
This is dependent on the strength of the will (its ability to focus), on understanding (knowledge and understanding  = multiplier power), and the strength of the ingrained automatic reaction, determined by the length of time it has taken to become established (naturally selected), and its dominance in the particular organism (organ hierarchies = personae).

The body has its own judgment, built over centuries of natural, and/or social selection - nature preceding and dominating the social by a factor equal to the time society emerged and attempted to control/cultivate the human animal: human domestication.
The brain either contradicts this judgment, or it slightly modifies it, or it accentuates it, supporting it.
Gene vs. Meme, where gene is the body's genetic predispositions (real), and meme is the brain's understanding and appreciation of what the body's automatic reactions (ideal).  

The degree to which the mind''s training contradicts, or agrees with the body's automatic predispositions, will determine success, and the time and will-power required to change, or replace behavior.
The body's nature, as the sum of generations of nurturing, will linger, as an ongoing factor the mind will have to continuously control and overcome, so that it does not revert back to its automatic, intuitive/instinctive, behavior.  
Putting it in the nature vs nurture context we can now understand the body as a manifestation of nature 9sum of all past nurturing) and nurture as the training that will attempt to usurp, or replace, or sharpen this natural programming.
Changing contexts we can also apply it in relation to subjectivity/objectivity: the subjective being the automatic reaction to stimuli, or the trained reactivity, and the objective being the goal that must begin by understanding and evaluating this reactivity.
Cost/Benefit being positive/negative evaluation in reference to a desired goal, whether the goal/motive, is based on need, or on an ideal.
Evaluation/Judgment of self, and other, the objective, and an understanding of the relationship, will determine cost/benefit, whether this is correctly evaluated or not.  
Self-consciousness acts as a regulator of consciousness.
Degree of error in judgment will determine the Will's intervening regulation of multiplying or diving its aggregate energies: energies at its disposal and its focus.
Consciousness has evolved through trial and error to judge in a tried and tested manner, using sensual stimulation, or triggers.  
This regulation we've called conscience, or what Jayne described as the bicameral mind. The sensation is that of a conversation with an unknown other, which is nothing more than the aspects of Self that remain obscure to self-consciousness - Know Thyself.
Consciousness of consciousness not knowing why it acts, or under-over-estimating self - an error of degree that results in huge mistakes when applied pragmatically(Butterfly Effect).
It is a ongoing dialogue between mind and body - the mind coming to terms with what the body has decreed on its behalf.  
Self-Overcoming can now be placed into the context of altering the body's reactions; training it to react otherwise, of coming to an understanding of why it judged and reacted as it did. either justifying it, or feeling embarrassed/ashamed before its conflict with an noetic ideal.

Self is the continuum of memories built with every (inter)action.  
One can either ignore and forget it, and call this memory loss an overcoming, or one can know and understand (patterns within patterns), calling this recognition an overcoming of ignorance, or it can use this understanding to change the automatic reactions adjusting all subsequent (re)actions according to a desirable goal - objective.

If some kind of artificial intelligence is to be built then an imitation of consciousness, in dialogue with self-consciousness will have to be invented.
Programming, continuously, challenged, questioned, by an algorithm that has the power to slightly adjust the original program, testing each adjustment in real-time, as cost/benefit, to then add or subtract, or completely erase and start over.
A real time self-programming process where the original program is never completely replaced, but lingers as a layer that influences the process.  

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyFri Jul 28, 2017 2:47 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyFri Jul 28, 2017 5:07 pm

Isn't technological progressivism and transhumanism the same thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyMon Jul 31, 2017 7:47 pm

^^^
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyMon Jul 31, 2017 8:48 pm

My understanding is:
Technology is artificial: controlled fire, hammers, computers, etc.
Progress would mean: becoming more advanced, more efficient.
Upgrading the tools does not mean you're upgrading yourself.

Transhumanism means to utilize technology to make up for non-artificial faults or to 'expand' ability, while also depending on them for your identity.

Do you own your body? Or is it something you should pay tribute to your ancestors for? How about technology? What made you entitled to the use of the technology - could you have made it yourself?

Transhumanists seek solutions for their problems from people or governances that are beyond their capability for reproducing. The inventor does not see its creation as an end, but a means. Transhumanists see them as an ends.

That is not to say "do not utilize it", but it is to say the approach is different.
Transhumanist: "This will make me."
Inventor: "This will help me."

The inventor (progressive technologist) wants to help either themselves or others, generally because it helps 'the whole' or it will help them acquire riches or increase efficiency.
The transhumanist says "I am this."

Like any technology, including tech. implants, it can be too powerful for a person's own good or ability to appreciate. Their arrogance can hurt them later.

Does one say they are aspirin? Or any other drug? Same thing with technology.

Also, you can't live forever - and it took lifetimes for some to come to the necessary revelations for modern technology. Identifying only with yourself would make your identity fairly vulnerable. Transhumanists seek their own pleasure/happiness, where progressives technologists might seek resistance for themselves (the pattern which they identify with).

If you had a son who made many advancements and was productive with his time and another son who drank his life away, which would you be inclined to invest more in?
---
You can connect this with everything else in the thread, which expands in greater detail about your question. That way no one has to repeat anything. I already repeated quite a bit things that were said by Lyssa and Satyr.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 11:19 am

My argument is that civilization has always been rampant with transhumanism since its entire beginning which is why it has always pushed for technological innovation. The consequences of social identity we see today is merely a consequence of its peak in terms of ideological thinking reinforced by state institutions. This is of course has been a doomed project from the start and this will become more apparent within the next seventy five years assuming human civilization lasts that long going into the future.
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Æon
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 11:34 am

Otto_West wrote:
a doomed project from the start
Civilization is over 3000-5000 years old. It has not yet died, nor probably ever will. Perhaps you are referring to the roller-coaster, height and declines of empires, that *sometimes* and *rarely* does society break down and fall apart, times of anarchy.

However order is restored quickly. If you are hoping and wanting for a *restart* then that is your faith and belief. And it is based on fear. You want the worst to happen, for personal and subjective reasons.

Objectively, you would need to understand the destiny of societies.

My point is, your anarchic doomsday faith is not unlike christian proselytizing, preaching for "the end of the world".

How are you different than a typical Christian, Otto? Isn't your anarchism subjective rather than objective? Why should anybody else "drink your cool aid" in a suicide circle? Isn't is simply the case that you want to pull others down into your personal miseries, like a person drowning at sea wants to pull others down with him, to cling to the raft?
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 11:41 am

Æon wrote:
Otto_West wrote:
a doomed project from the start
Civilization is over 3000-5000 years old.  It has not yet died, nor probably ever will.  Perhaps you are referring to the roller-coaster, height and declines of empires, that *sometimes* and *rarely* does society break down and fall apart, times of anarchy.

However order is restored quickly.  If you are hoping and wanting for a *restart* then that is your faith and belief.  And it is based on fear.  You want the worst to happen, for personal and subjective reasons.

Objectively, you would need to understand the destiny of societies.

My point is, your anarchic doomsday faith is not unlike christian proselytizing, preaching for "the end of the world".

How are you different than a typical Christian, Otto?  Isn't your anarchism subjective rather than objective?  Why should anybody else "drink your cool aid" in a suicide circle?  Isn't is simply the case that you want to pull others down into your personal miseries, like a person drowning at sea wants to pull others down with him, to cling to the raft?

Global civilization within its technological modernity of infrastructure will collapse from depletion of natural resources. There are almost four hundred or more nuclear plants across the world and thousands of nuclear warheads. To compare the environment of ancient civilizations to that of modern ones is ignorant. I am not an anarchist.

You're a fool for believing that our species will exist forever along with your childish idealism of human immorality throughout time.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 11:47 am

It's not idealism.

Humans have lived for 10,000 years. How am I wrong, exactly?

Prove a time in history that humans were almost wiped out, or died in mass???

I'll help you... it was the Black Plague in Europe. That was one of the worst times within the last 2000 years. And that is really your best historical example.

Other than that, my case is strong and logical. It is *your* idealism that the world is going to end.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 11:50 am

Æon wrote:
It's not idealism.

Humans have lived for 10,000 years.  How am I wrong, exactly?

Prove a time in history that humans were almost wiped out, or died in mass???

I'll help you... it was the Black Plague in Europe.  That was one of the worst times within the last 2000 years.  And that is really your best historical example.

Other than that, my case is strong and logical.  It is *your* idealism that the world is going to end.

No species lives forever including homo sapiens. We will never become technological gods of the universe and I am sorry this pisses off nerds that masturbate ideologically to science fiction on a daily basis.

Your comparisons once again of ancient environments to modern ones is ignorant and pathetic but coming from the likes of you isn't surprising.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 12:01 pm

Otto_West wrote:
Your comparisons once again of ancient environments to modern ones is ignorant and pathetic
So the past does not predict the future???

If you're going to fear-monger then you really need to come up with better arguments to convince people of what you believe in.

Your hope for chaos and anarchy is unfounded, and historically inaccurate. Kind of like the recent Christopher Nolan Joker versus Batman movie. Joker kept on expecting society to turn on themselves, but was wrong in the end. Why? Because Joker underestimated social order and cooperation. People are domesticated.

You aren't looking at the big picture.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 12:20 pm

Æon wrote:
Otto_West wrote:
Your comparisons once again of ancient environments to modern ones is ignorant and pathetic
So the past does not predict the future???

If you're going to fear-monger then you really need to come up with better arguments to convince people of what you believe in.

Your hope for chaos and anarchy is unfounded, and historically inaccurate.  Kind of like the recent Christopher Nolan Joker versus Batman movie.  Joker kept on expecting society to turn on themselves, but was wrong in the end.  Why?  Because Joker underestimated social order and cooperation.  People are domesticated.

You aren't looking at the big picture.

I am an ex anarchist. I'm not an anarchist any more. I won't repeat myself again.

There are similarities between the past, present, and future but none of that is entirely comparable.

I don't need to hope for chaos as we're presently living in chaos currently whether people want to admit that or not doesn't matter. The only way going forward is hoping for collapse of the societies we're living in as they're beyond reform or redemption and understanding the various problems of our civilizations on a long enough timeline going into the future collapse is all but guaranteed.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 12:38 pm

Philosophically, I've always added doubt to my own idealism.

Have you ever asked yourself, "What if I'm wrong?" As in, what if society does not collapse? Or it maybe 500 or 1000 more years until then, if that?

Also you seem blinded to the fact that society is increasing its stability and solidarity more than ever before. So chaos seems as less likely as ever before. Your ideology and idealism is rare. Even if society did break down, fall apart, collapse, etc. it may not benefit you. It may harm you more than anybody else.

What makes you think that you can live without society, that your ability to survive independently is better than others, who absolutely would work together? That martial law would be imposed, and where would you find yourself then in a state dominated by the military? Do you have social connections?

Because I'll give you another hint. In a military state, you have to have insider connections to a local militia, to stand a chance. You have to be familiar, associated, and loyal to a town or communities. Strangers and people running solo, are gunned down on site, no questions asked.

In other words, people cooperate more strongly in emergency situations, and fall upon socialistic attitudes.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Æon wrote:
Philosophically, I've always added doubt to my own idealism.

Have you ever asked yourself, "What if I'm wrong?"  As in, what if society does not collapse?  Or it maybe 500 or 1000 more years until then, if that?

Also you seem blinded to the fact that society is increasing its stability and solidarity more than ever before.  So chaos seems as less likely as ever before.  Your ideology and idealism is rare.  Even if society did break down, fall apart, collapse, etc. it may not benefit you.  It may harm you more than anybody else.

What makes you think that you can live without society, that your ability to survive independently is better than others, who absolutely would work together?  That martial law would be imposed, and where would you find yourself then in a state dominated by the military?  Do you have social connections?

Because I'll give you another hint.  In a military state, you have to have insider connections to a local militia, to stand a chance.  You have to be familiar, associated, and loyal to a town or communities.  Strangers and people running solo, are gunned down on site, no questions asked.

In other words, people cooperate more strongly in emergency situations, and fall upon socialistic attitudes.

I am of the mindset that annihilation is preferable to the current state of society. You're right, there is no guarantee that I or anybody for that matter would survive such a transition however if you already have nothing to lose it doesn't really matter where even amid risks the possibility of things being better is worth it in holding such a position.

I don't believe I am incorrect as I have devoted years to studying this subject, it isn't something I believe in lightly.

In a military state you only need ruthlessness to survive of which I have and possess plenty of.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyFri Sep 01, 2017 12:14 pm

TFM has been talking about sex dolls a lot lately:









Also, lol

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 06, 2017 7:11 pm



I'm interested in what arguments those belonging to mainstream political positions will try to come up with against sex dolls and robots.

As a fascist who openly rejects freedom as a value, I can easily make arguments against sex robots.

I can point out how they distract men from what really matters, which is family and reproduction.
I can say how it's unhealthy for one's masculinity and sanity to treat an object as a subject and forego actual human interaction in favor of it.
Finally, it is a waste of all kinds of resources (time, materials, energy) to invest so much in sex dolls/robots, when we already have actual women. Better to invest the same resources elsewhere.
This is another weakness of this degenerate society. Resources are wasted to deal with basic shit like satisfying sexual urges.

But how does somebody who claims to be all about freedom, who claims that government should keep out of one's bedroom, and who has no issues with women using sex toys ranging from dildos to fuck machines, consistently argue against sex dolls and robots?

I'm aware that rational discussion and argumentation hasn't exactly been the main deciding factor in law making, especially in the last couple of decades and centuries, but it'll still be interesting to observe.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyThu Sep 07, 2017 12:53 am

Aren't those dolls more of less a technologically advanced form of pornography?

Nobody is shutting down MGTOW or MRA channels, as far as I know. And why would they, it works towards similar ends as feminism. Alienation, atomisation of society,...
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 02, 2017 9:05 am



German documentary connecting Kaczynski, the Frankfurt school, the US government, Wittgenstein, drug culture, the sixties and mind control.

Globalism controlling even the definition of the antithesis to it.
By defining all unities as examples of globalization, it divides and helps Globalization proceed.
Globalization = code for Americanism.
Culture of no Culture...no past, an eternal immanent future.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 02, 2017 10:59 am

History has been sabotaged irreparably to where now the lies and delusions have become so embedded in mass psychology like a tumor, moderns are now making peace with it, learning how to build on it in a normal expressive way. The evolution of mimetic disease.

Narratives control every thought and absorb it into the collective mass of consensus. It's all normal to average people because it's based on learning platforms such as this one where ideas are channeled in convincing persuasion of "evidence" supped up with drama.

Using the function of a "fact" to convince modern people to believe something is easy because a fact does the hard part for them, the part they are incapable of doing: it defines reality. This is why modern academics love to conjure up fantastical "facts" about who Hitler was because of how much he is despised. Feeding off emotions is the ploy. Something that should be condemned should, thusly, be condemned in every way, no matter how spurious or odd, as long as its healthily rejected and accepted as rejected, solidifying the tumor further and accepting other alterations and revisions.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyFri Oct 06, 2017 11:57 am



Another example of how words are being manipulated, beginning with the detachment of words from their reference to behaviors, to interactions, beginning with the word 'human' and then, by implication, affecting words like 'sex', 'male/female', until everything is meaningless and arbitrary...and common sense becomes mystical and the easiest concepts become far too complex, to accommodate dysfunctions and mutations mass reproduction produces, and system sheltering perpetuates.
And if this can happen to a simple concept like reproduction and sexual roles, then imagine what a field day degenerates can have with more complicated concepts.
A stage for pretenders and liars to enter the scene, and exploit the gullibility and desires of the audience.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyFri Oct 06, 2017 12:08 pm

All liars are allied with each other to keep the stupid pacified. Never do liars use their skill for euphemism to destroy euphemism itself. A liar that is caught can have a future for lying again - and criminals will sooner murder a fellow than allow their subversive principles be exposed. Someone is always someone's sucker. Sometimes liars are more virtuous for lying than the honest are virtuous for truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2018 7:42 am

Recording down observations in any form, if done while holding none of it in memory, is not only transhumanist but also a demonstration of cowardliness.
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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptyTue Jan 08, 2019 4:23 pm



Memes are gene specific.
They can be imitated and adopted superficially, because the one who adopts it does not share in the historical continuum that brought it about.
The mind can be trained to think in ways the body does not and cannot share in.
Certain attitudes and ways of thinking can only be fully appreciated when both mind and body feel intimate to them. When they are adopted by an individual from a different culture,from the one it emerged from, the imitation can only remain intellectual, without ever being visceral.
The body has a memory, and a judgement standard, of its own.

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PostSubject: Re: Transhumanism Transhumanism - Page 3 EmptySat Jan 19, 2019 1:56 pm

The productivity of technology is inescapable, there is a coming marriage between technology and man for maximizing competitive edge. Nations are able to mobilize massive resources for this aim, by compartmentalization of effeminate technologists, and masculine tech illiterates. Keeping the two divorced, retains their control.

The new man, if rejecting 'civilization' completely, will be simultaneously combat experienced and capable of great 'hacking'. They'll be able to digitally secure their own interests while also using them (digitally). Securing against attacks will be necessary for cyborg creation, which the man would have to take part in while enemies enhance their power with implants. Attempts at 'regular' 'old time' masculinity will result in being used or killed (by machines).

Whoever wins the technological arena, without hedo-nihil-istic abandonment, will win the world. The 1984 prediction of the abolishment of the sex instinct is not far off - ethicists and carbon supremacists attempt to destroy this. You can see this J.F. Gariepy's book, where he argues against eugenics and an advancement of 'silicon [chip] based life forms'.
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