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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Buddhism Tue May 28, 2013 2:54 pm

Greek-Buddhism:

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Tue May 28, 2013 2:57 pm

Heraclitus and Buddha on Impermanence:

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Tue May 28, 2013 3:12 pm

McEvilley suggest that Heraclitus might have come into contact with eastern philosophy, which you already know, do you agree with this?

The common ancestry of the tribes coming down from the north - Hyperboreans - may have carried with them the seeds of this common position.

The east advanced quicker, while in the west the frontiers were still open.
I would say that different populations following different migration paths, and coming into contact with different environmental conditions, resulted in the slight, in the beginning, divergences, splinting Hinduism and Hellenism.

Buddhism was for the east (Hinduism) what Christianity was for the west (Hellenism).

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Tue May 28, 2013 3:49 pm

Satyr wrote:
McEvilley suggest that Heraclitus might have come into contact with eastern philosophy, which you already know, do you agree with this?

The common ancestry of the tribes coming down from the north - Hyperboreans - may have carried with them the seeds of this common position.

The east advanced quicker, while in the west the frontiers were still open.
I would say that different populations following different migration paths, and coming into contact with different environmental conditions, resulted in the slight, in the beginning, divergences, splinting Hinduism and Hellenism.

Buddhism was for the east (Hinduism) what Christianity was for the west (Hellenism).

I think likewise. The scholar Tilak makes a case for an Arctic Proto-Indo-European hypothesis:
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Heraclitus and Hindu philosophy is too similar to be a random parallel coincidence, and yet also, Heraclitus looked poorly at oriental dionysian cults which makes me wonder if he would taken any eastern wisdom seriously. He was the man who said "I searched myself" ditto to some lines in the Upanishad. No way to conclude; more likely it was a natural parallel development of a natural shared psyche, a blood-meme.

N.J.Allen, another comparative Indo-Europeanist points out McEvilley's diffusion theory is to deny a common Proto-I.E. heritage:

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The book is invaluable for the parallels.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:55 am

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Apologies, should have posted it here.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:59 pm

Lyssa wrote:
What is the Buddhist Ashta-marga or noble-eight-fold Aryan path of self-formation?

In the Dharma-Chakra Pravartana Sutra [Pali: Dhamma-Kakka-Ppavattana-Sutta], Buddha describes this middle path, avoiding the twin extremes of self-indulgent excess, and self-ascetic mortification, as the path leading to Nirvana [Pali: Nibbana], i.e., the 'Order adequate to being self-stationed' :

right view, right intention; right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

sammadhitti, sammasankalpa, sammavaca, sammakamanta, sammajiva, sammavayama, sammasati, sammasamadhi

'Samma' or 'right' here means, "that which leads to the source (self)", or leads to being "self-stationed". Rhys Davids translated samma as "constant presence of the mind", "signifying literally a 'going with' [Gk. 'sum']".

"Samma' does not, as commonly misconceived, mean ‘right’ but is an ancient Vedic term denoting coherency of mind (citta) with itself, which is equal to Brahman (i.e. self-coherent), or the imminent Self made become through wisdom." [AN 2.29]
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"Within the sovereign mind, one is established in the supreme Self”. [DN 2.83]
- This, is the state of "samma" or "right".

“Supremely within fixation of mind (supatitthitacitto), is anuttara samma'sambodhi (unexcelled coherency of awakened mind).
'Samma': The resting of the mind (citta) steadfastly upon its Goal (viz. Brahman/swelling of life) after having detached itself from manifold sense objects (i.e.corporeality), by continually observing their defects, is called Sama (Pali: Samma) or calmness.
In brief, a Samma'sambuddha is one in whom the mind no longer identifies itself with phenomenal attributes (khandhas, aggregates), with psycho-physicality (namo-rupa, name-form), but with itself (svayambhu or Self-nature [Pati. 1.174]) alone; therein attaining immortality [SN 5.8], so deemed by the Buddha as “having made refuge in the Self” (Saranam attano [DN 2.120])."

Having Samma means having Self-Composure at all times, being mindful, being constantly vigilant, awake, alert to one's sense of Self - a state of highly lucid Discrimination, in which one therefore finds the highest freedom-of-Self - this is called Nirvana - the extinguishing of the (consciousness of the) Self through every other labels, names/forms, except through Self-determination from mind-full-ness.
This "freedom" of self-sovereignty was exoterized as "peace"... and nirvana as pop culture understands it, as a self 'dissolution' and pacifism, continues...

To be mind-full was to sharply Discriminate the Self in full affirmation of its entire past, its actions, its borders, from everything else;
“...a bhikkhu is mindful, one who possess the highest mindfulness and discrimination, who remembers and recalls what was done and said long ago." [Dīgha-Nikāya, Saṅgīti Sutta]
Samma-dhi literally means selfconcentrate-wisdom.

Reading with Evola,

Evola wrote:
"We are translating the term samma, which figures as the general attribute of the virtues included in the so-called eightfold path of the Ariya (ariya atthangika magga) by "upright" or "right" because of the intrinsic evocative power of this word: upright is the position of things that stand, as opposed to that of things that have been knocked over or have fallen. In primordial symbolism the upright position, represented by the vertical I, belongs to virility and fire, while the horizontal position -corresponds to the feminine element and to the "waters." Thus, by "rightness" we must understand more than an accepted morality: it is rather an internal mode, a capacity for standing fast at all times without deviating or wavering, by eliminating every trace of tortuousness. The only point of reference here is, fundamentally, one-self: the "virtues" are essentially so many duties to oneself that the reawakened interior sensibility brings to light: but once they have been put into practice, they encourage, strengthen, and establish a state of calm. of transparency of mind and
of spirit, of balance and of "justice" by which every other discipline or technique is made easier.

...religions only exist in order to support moral precepts; precepts that, incidentally, only tend to chain the human animal socially.
"The fire has never thought, `I wish to destroy the foolish man' - but the foolish man who wishes to embrace the burning lire destroys himself." We must speak, then, of stupidity or foolishness, and not of "sin"; of knowledge, and not of "good" and "evil." We have already quoted the Buddhist simile of the raft: as a man once he has crossed a river, will leave behind the raft that was built for that purpose. so we must leave behind the reference points of "good and evil" that served to encourage right conduct, once this conduct has been achieved. That the world of true spirituality has nothing to do with "good and evil" was also, moreover, a basic concept in the preceding lndo-Aryan tradition.
Included in this part of "right conduct" is abstention from dilectical discussions and speculation-this takes us back to the neutralization of the demon of intellectualism.

Nothing, among the Aryan people, was considered so ignominious and degrading as falsehood, especially from the point of one's own relations with oneself and of the duties that one owes first and foremost to one's self and to one's own interior dignity.
Sati literally means "memory," that is to say, continual practice of mindfulness of oneself; and of self-awareness.

This means that, in the first place, one must cultivate an attitude of absolute inflexible sincerity and objectivity with regard to one's interior, psychological, and emotive life. In the second place, we are again concerned with the energy that is aroused by the disidentifying "insight." The sign that progress has been achieved on this road is one's ability to regard one's own emotions, feelings, states of mind,
and passions as if they were another's-as though, naturally, they were taking place in someone about whom one were quite indifferent and who served merely as an object of observation. Once again, the aim is an active form of depersonalization.
"The ascetic knows when he is walking, `I am walking,' he knows when he is standing, am standing,' he knows when he is in this or that position that he is in this or that position." In a word, he ends by literally hearing his own body.
In another way this discipline can also he summed up by the word silentium: "to gird oneself with silence," silence in the technical and initiatory sense, in the sense of the Eleusinians...
Impressions are arrested at the periphery, at the limit of the senses.
Between them and the "I" there is now a distance, a zone of "silence."

The Bhagavadgita says: "When the mind, by ascesis, becomes quiet; when [the ascetic], seeing the self in the self, rejoices in himself, knows that boundless joy which, transcending the senses, can only be apprehended by the intellect and, when fixed in it, does not stir from the truth ... he knows that this detachment from union with pain is called yoga."

"In the ascetic joy arises; this joy makes him blissful; being blissful, his body becomes calm: with the body calmed, serenity arises; in this serenity the mind comes to rest, becomes concentrated. ...such concentration has supreme wisdom as its result."

The term we have given as "intellectual simplicity" is ekodibhava. Some have translated it by: "the mind emerges alone and simple," others "the mind grows calm and sure, dwelling on high," whose corresponding state is said to be "self-evolved": yet others use the expression "single-mindedness" or "one-pointedness".

This achievement results from the power and intensity of self-concentration that has been developed to a point where, as in the episode referred to by a text, not even the noise produced by a large number of wagons is in any way noticed."

Thus the term ekodibhava has not unjustly been compared with "simplicity of the will without thoughts." The "intellectual simplicity" that is the center of the second jhana is not a simple mental state, but rather the point in which a pure will power concentrates and frees itself, an inwardly directed willpower having itself both as its object and as its base."  [Doctrine of Awakening]


To explain further, (unfort. with a quote I'm unable to source),

Quote :
"Basically, the unity between thought and action can be considered as the ultimate aim of the Eightfold path, and, by action, we do not mean simply 'reason', but 'manas', understood in the samsaric perspective of 'The Doctrine of Awakening'. In addition to an absence of rigidity, a non attachment to things, a perfect freedom, a thoroughly purified mind, and an enjoyment of emptiness, non-division between thought and action is, according to Suzuki and various other authors, one of the main characteristics of the enlightened person in Zen Buddhism.

...The Buddha's advice to vipassana students is that they should try to maintain the
awareness of Anicca, or Dukkha [realization of entropy / impermanence or flux of all things] in all postures, whether sitting, standing, walking or lying down, no matter the situation.
Samadhi, the control of the mind leading to one-pointedness implies the control of the body ;
the control and the awareness of time, through thought, implies the control and the awareness of space, through the body.
When, after a hectic day, you come home and accidentally trip over the dog and hurt it, you prove to be less aware of time and space than the dog is, at that precise moment.
Contemplation and action are one and the same thing, for example, in vipassana, which takes into account the fact that man cannot but act. The Taoist expression acting-without-acting really says it all."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:05 pm

Kovacs wrote:
Kovacs wrote:

This makes me Think of various religious/contemplative practices where there is or could be argued to be a splitting off the valueing relationship from the object.   Buddhist contemplation of consciousness itself or the 'i', where you end up with consciousness without an object.
Buddhist meditation can be of an object also, and there are other foci of buddhist meditation that would not be the yourself.  Though the distinction between self and other is being challenged, of course.

Lyssa wrote:


No, to be accurate, you could say knowledge of consciousness itself becomes the object here.

Not my impression.  Pretty specific about it being consciousness without an object. But then what do you mean by knowledge?  Propositional, implicit, something else?

Knowledge is absolute when there is no gap between consciousness and its object, or consciousness is its own object, hence subject and object at once.
The ouroboros Attempting to eat its own tail and complete the circle, but never attaining it.
The abs. closure of gap is of course impossible because there will always be a differential lag in the rates of becoming between our consciousness and our consciousness of our consciousness and our consciousness of our consciousness of our consciousness... and so forth.

As I quoted this just recently in another thread;

Quote :
""Knowledge" is a referring back: in its essence a regressus in infinitum. That which comes to a standstill (at a supposed causa prima, at something unconditioned, etc.) is laziness, weariness--" [N., WTP, 575]

Buddhist/Vedantic meditation and other practices only just help enhance that regress... that urge Not to stop somewhere... they are an intensification of this process for finer and finer self-self-self-self-consciousness... and so you have the phrase mind-Fullness. One tries to achieve the Fullest or maximal consciousness of self.

Buddhism does not teach happiness rather liberation of the citta/soul/nous from false identification with the temporal and psycho-physical self (as meant anatman/anatta). Buddhism was
originally an amoral Monism, a methodology of making synthesis/union with the Absolute [read: potential] through wisdom.

Quote :
Pati-A 2.478 "The sovereign-mind which is its own support (an-without + a'rammana=support) means the sovereign-mind is the foundation."

Quote :
Dh-A 4.26 "Ones own mind is the foundation of the Soul."

Quote :
MN-A 2.297 "Nibbana is the foundation, that being the emancipated-mind (citta)."


The notion "I am Brahman Become", or "That Thou Art", etc. indicate the path of intense regressus where the mind is able to rest on itself De-identifying itself further and further at every stage with passive derivation of its identity from the flux / samsara.

Meditation is a building of layers.
When you have achieved a certain degree of self-consciousness, with further regressus, there is new self-consciousness and so on. So the mind comes increasingly to rest on itself...
self-self-self-self-self-self-consciousness...

Quote :
"concentrating all one's senses upon one's self (rather than upon external objects)..." [Ch.Up., VII.15]

Quote :
"...the purpose of yoga as "the suppression of fluctuations in the mind." [Patanjali, Yoga Sutras, I.1]

Quote :
"...when the fluctuations of the mind have been stilled "then the Seer is established in his own essential and fundamental nature." [ib., I.3]

Its own consciousness becomes its own object. [I believe this is what popular Buddhist/Hinduism corrupt by saying it is the process of consciousness without an object - its the external object that is more and more de-identified with,, while the transference is onto one's own mind.

Nibbana or liberation is thus the degree of your self-determination, how mind-Full you can be, how much your identity can disengage with passive identifications or identity being carried away by temporal fluctuations [samsara].


Examining this process,

Evola wrote:

"In yoga manuals, Patanjali's included, we find the outline of a corresponding gradual discipline. The starting point is usually represented by five states of mind:

1. Unstable, changing, wavering (ksipta-chitta)

2. Inattentive, confused (mudha)

3. Occasionally focused (vikshipta)

4. Gathered in only one spot (ekagriya or ekagrata)

5. Completely mastered (niruddha)

Only in the fourth state, in which one actively concentrates on one spot (ekagriya), does the mind begin to be a useful instrument for yoga and for sadhana in general.

The discipline that is employed consists in reducing to a mini- mum the role that the first two states play in ordinary life. This is done in order to bring about a stable and continuous self-awareness, as well as a methodical de-identification with the sensations (vrittis), and also with the fluctuating and mobile contents of inner and outer experiences. The goal is achieved when the passive and scattered states are removed, and they cease to be habitual states of consciousness; at this point, the obtuse coalescence of the I with mental modifications has finally been overcome. The following are the recommended initial exercises that lead to de-identification.

With a calm mind, leave thoughts to themselves. Witness the sight of various mental associations being formed spontaneously and capriciously, without losing your self-awareness; do not dis- turb them, but do not let them carry you away. Carefully avoid entertaining or developing any thought that solicits your imagination. It may be useful to reformulate mentally the thoughts that knock at your mind's doors, by saying: "So there! Now I have this thought, and previously I have entertained that thought," and so on. Since, at the beginning, it often happens that the mind wanders off, when that happens, one should not go on. Instead of starting from the very last thought, one should rather attempt to reconstruct the path of the fleeing thoughts that have preceded the last thought, and then start again from the point in which one enjoyed self-awareness.

Some texts refer to this technique as the "shepherd's exercise." One's inner attitude resembles that of a shepherd who leads his flock to the pasture and lets it roam free, without ever losing sight of it. The positive result is achieved - this too is an image found in the texts - when one experiences a feeling similar to the one experienced by a calm person who sits on the bank of a river and watches the water flow by.

The same result is achieved through another method, the so-called cutting-off method. One must remain alert and suppress every thought and mental image, as soon as it surfaces in the mind, just as a quick, clean slash with a sickle easily mows down a blade of grass. Whenever a new thought surfaces, it should be dealt with the same way. After a while, if one successfully persists, he will eventually witness a sort of flight of thoughts and images; this is the "view of the fleeing enemy," which is contingent on the I becoming detached from the contents of its own consciousness. One will thus find himself in the same final condition arrived at in the previous exercise, experiencing the peaceful state of mind of one who sits by a river's bank, watching the water flow by." [Yoga of Power]


You could say original Buddhism/Vedanta is a sense-sharpening ontology; the consciousness stands back from itself to observe itself with finer and finer sense, trying to narrow down and close the gap between the differential rates of becoming, which is never achieved. Brahman signifies the infinite potential of that regressus.

Quote :
"The imperishable is without eyes, without ears, without soeech, without mind... and yet there is no other seer but it, no other hearer but it, no other perceiver but it, no other thinker but it." [Brihad. Upanishad., III.8.8-11]

So these meditative practices are a process where that "continuity" in awareness is the least disrupted.

It is least disrupted when the mind doesn't "stop anywhere".  To "cling", to "stop" is to identify somewhere with samsara, a rupture, a gap in the continuity you are trying to close.

This is actually what is meant in the saying my Buddha-nature is also in the dog or tree which too have their buddha-nature. Pop. buddhism is a corruption of this wisdom calling it compassion and being enlightened. Its not the Nulling of distinction between self and object per se, but not "stopping anywhere" to identify the dog as dog, and tree as tree.... this is an "abstraction"..... which ruptures the continuity of awareness.

This is how Plato had used the word "hindered";

Quote :
"The soul, when using the body as an instrument of perception, that is to say when using the sense of sight or hearing or some other sense... is then dragged by the body into the region of the changeable and wanders and is confused. But when returning into itself it reflects, then it passes into the other world, the region of purity and eternity and immortality and unchangeableness which are its kindred and with them it ever lives, when it is by itself and is not hindered." [Plato, Phaedo, 79bd]

It is the continuity that is "not hindered" to achieve a more and more stable support for the self... [he calls this 'pure, eternal, immortal'...]...

You can only achieve a pyramid when the base foundation is strong and stable, kept unhindered...

Quote :
"When the soul... ceases from its erring ways and being in communion with the unchanging is unchanging, this is called knowledge." [Plato, Phaedo, 79c]

Quote :
"Imperturbable wisdom is worth everything." [Democritus, fr.216]

self-self-self-self....self-consciousness...


Quote :
"Epicurus's belief that conceptual proliferation (Greek kenodoxia, empty opinion) is the source of most himan suffering recalls the Buddhist doctrine of prapanca - the drive toward conceptual proliferation which is identified in many early Buddist texts as a principal root of mental disquietude.
...The Buddha similarly warned against "the tendency toward prilideration in the realm of conceots", "the spreading out, expansion, and diffusiveness" of the untrained thought process, "the tendency of the worldling's imagination to break loose and run riot". [Bhikku Nanananda, Concept and Reality in Early Buddhist Thought; p. 3-4]" [McEvilley, The Shape of Ancient Thought]

Quote :
"The mind that does not stop at all is called immovable wisdom." [Takuan Soho, The Unfettered Mind]

Quote :
"When facing a single tree, if you look at a single one of its red leaves, you will not see all the others. When the eye is not set on any one leaf, and you face the tree with nothing at all in mind, any number of leaves are visible to the eye without limit. But if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there." [ib.]

Quote :
""Interval" is when two things come one upon another, and not even a hairsbreadth can be slipped in between them. In just the same way, if the mind stops with the sword with which a man is going to strike you, there will be an interval, and your own action will be lost. But if in the interval between your opponent's striking sword and your own action you cannot introduce even the breadth of a hair, your opponent's sword should become your own.
In Zen discussions we have the same thing.  In Buddhism we abhor this stopping and the mind remaining with one thing or another. We call this stopping affliction." [ib.]

Quote :
"The transparency, that is, the correspondence, between thought and action is at the root and is the prerequisite of any spiritual life worth of the name, that is, of any organic realisatory spiritual process; it is the hallmark of the superhuman states of consciousness to which this realisatory process is supposed to lead. Basically, the unity between thought and action can be considered as the ultimate aim of the Eightfold path, and, by action, we do not mean simply 'reason', but 'manas', understood in the samsaric perspective of 'The Doctrine of Awakening'. In addition to an absence of rigidity, a non attachment to things, a perfect freedom, a thoroughly purified mind, and an enjoyment of emptiness, non division between thought and action is, according to Suzuki and various other authors, one of the main characteristics of the enlightened person in Zen Buddhism."[Evola]

Quote :
"...the pacification of prapanca, or conceptual proliferation... is nirvana." [Candrakirti]

Quote :
"O, Aryans, this is a blind alley of opinions, a thicket of opinions, a forest of opinions.
...Tangled, tortuous, painful, desperate. Not leading to vision, not leading to detachment, not leading to wisdom, not leading to awakening." [Buddha, MN, 72]

Quote :
"If you would spend all your time - walking, standing, sitting or lying down - learning to halt the concept-forming activities of your mind, you could be sure of ultimately attaining the goal.
To be absolutely without concepts is called the Wisdom of Dispassion. ...You must get away from the doctrines of existence and non-existence... This is not something which you can accomplish without effort, but when you reach the point of clinging to nothing whatever, you will be acting as the Buddha's act. This will indeed be acting in accordance with the saying, "Develop a mind which rests on nothing whatever." For this is your pure Dharmakaya, which is called supreme perfect Enlightenment." [Huang Po/Blofeld, The Zen Teaching of Huang Po]

Quote :
"The daimon, or divine part of the soul, dragged by the lower parts, flows helplessly from life to life in the stream of change, sloughing one shadowy body for another in the grip of appetite and ambition. So it continues until, through philosophical discipline, the lower parts are stilled and reason is set again upon the throne of the self. ...The world below has functioned as a field in which the soul could purge itself of its appetitive and ambitious parts." [Plato, Tim., 41d-44c]

Quote :
"Here it is that the conditioned consciousness ceases to be." [D.I.223].

Quote :
"When nourishment is pure, the mind becomes pure. When mind is pure, memory becomes firm. And when memory wells up and remains firm, then all the ties [read: which bind us to a belief in anything but the Self] are loosened." [Brihad. Upanishad, 7.26.2]


Since life is flux, "stopping" at something is a "clinging", a passivity. Yet, that doesn't mean, you dissolve with the world, rush away with the current, but both the Greeks and Indo-Aryans arrived at taking one's self as self-foundation.

Quote :
"It is not things themselves that disturb people, but their opinions about the things...
It is the part of an untrained person to blame others when he feels badly; to blame himself is the action of one whose training hasbegin. To blame no one's the part of whose training is complete." (Ench. 5)
"All our pains hang on opinions... Opinion is what we are sad for. Each of us is as wretched as he believes." [Seneca, Ep. 78.13]

Quote :
"When the spirit is rich and independent it most resists any preoccupation with morality." [N., WTP, 432]

Quote :
"Let him not think something is better or worse or even the same as another." [Sutta Nipata, 795]

Quote :
"They [the enlightened ones] do not fancy, they do not prefer." [ib.]

Quote :
"He... has no leanings here to either of the two extremes: being or not being, here or beyond, he has no moorings whatsoever, no clutching while distinguishing between dharmas." [ib., 801]

Quote :
"Common people take their stand on their own points of view, on their own doctrines and on their own thoughts, and hence there arise all the contentions... He who understands that all opinions... are in truth of the same nature, has already become free from all these." [Mahaprajnaparamita Sutra, 61 A]

Quote :
"Develop a mind that clings to nothing." [Vajracchedika Prajnaparamita, 10]


The Fullness of the mind [mindfulness] is a direction proportion of the Emptiness or de-identification with fluctuations.

Quote :
"Fullness and emptiness are the same thing." [Heraclitus, fr.65]

Its what the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] symbolizes in Zen:

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The more self-Full [sat] you are, the more self-Fullfilled you are [cit-Ananda].

The most solid, abstract Diamond-perfect Mind is actually the most Fluid self that doesn't "stop" anywhere. The Greeks called this kind of intelligence "cunning", or "Metis", because one tried to outwit and close the "gap" between differential rates of becoming and preserve 'continuity' in awareness;

The circle is a metis; because of its continuous curve, it unites several opposites. [Paraphrase / Detienne-Vernant, Cunning Intelligence]

Quote :
"The Greek and Indian traditions of ethical philosophy both emphasize not the selection of one type of action rather than another, but the state of mind in which an action is performed. For both, the ideal ethical state is conceived as imperturbability or detachment." [Thomas McEvilley, The Shape of Ancient Thought]

I recall you appreciating Kim ki-duk's film 3-Iron. The last scene in the prison trying to "close the gap" with one's shadow is the most interesting. A very poetic expression of his 'liberation'... circling on upon onself, trying to keep continuity...

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:07 pm

Kovacs wrote:
and have a nice blissful experience.   There are parallels in Hinduism and even the mystical fringes of the Abrahamic religions.

This Bliss is nothing but how Evola explains above in the "watching of the shepherd" -  relinquishing ocntrol while keeping a watchful eye, is an Economization of our energy that we experiences as Bliss.
We find it "liberating";

Nietzsche wrote:
"Scientific manners: as training or as instinct.- In the Greek philosophers I see a decline of the instincts: otherwise they could not have blundered so far as to posit the conscious state as more valuable. Intensity of consciousness stands in inverse ratio to ease and speed of cerebral transmission. Among Greek philosophers the reverse opinion about instinct prevailed: which is always a sign of weakened instincts.
We must in fact seek perfect life where it has become least conscious (i.e., least aware of its logic, its reasons, its means and intentions, its utility). The return to the facts of bon sens, of the bon homme, of the "little people"of all kinds. The stored-up integrity and shrewdness of generations which are never conscious of their principles and are even a little afraid of principles. The demand for a virtue that reasons is not reasonable- A philosopher is compromised by such a demand." [WTP, 439]



Kovacs wrote:
Relevent to the topic, recent portion at least, it seems to me more intermediate states of religious practices are trying to split off the feelings and sense we have of objects from their qualities.  Regardless the practitioners is being trained to see perfection, the Buddha, Brahma, Goodness, an objection of compassion, Beauty, in the object regardless.   IOW it is an attempt to move humans away from what Mo is saying is what is actually happening when Beauty is experienced, a relation that is affected by qualities of the object - read: beauty is not merely subjective.


I had saved this excerpt from years ago and cannot source it, but I think this is what one tries to cultivate in Vipassana atleast;

Quote :
"In concrete terms, for example, if you come home and accidentally trip over the dog and hurt it, this is not intended and has no effect. However, after a hectic day, you come home and kick the dog, then negative Karma is generated. Admittedly, this simplistic view means leaving the door open to any inner abandonment and to general irresponsibility. In fact, most of the trouble which people experience, whether in the physical or in the mental sphere, either are caused by people who 'didn't meant to' or are the result of things they themselves 'didn't mean' to do. To go back over the aforementioned example, right concentration and, simply, more care, should enable you to avoid tripping over the dog. The Buddha's advice to vipassana students is that they should try to maintain the awareness of Anicca, Dukkha or Anatta in all postures, whether sitting, standing, walking or lying down, no matter the situation.
Samadhi, the control of the mind leading to one-pointedness implies the control of the body ; the control and the awareness of time, through thought, implies the control and the awareness of space, through the body. When, after a hectic day, you come home and accidentally trip over the dog and hurt it, you prove to be less aware of time and space than the dog is, at that precise moment.

Contemplation and action are one and the same thing, for example, in vipassana, which takes into account the fact that man cannot but act.
The Taoist expression acting-without-acting really says is all."


In that example, to not be mind-Full is to be worse than the dog;

Vipassana is a practice aiming at this kind of aesthetic appreciation - our sense of space and time.


Kovacs wrote:
From my own perspective, I dislike this attempt to make all things/persons of equal value.

Me too.

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"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:03 pm

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:18 am

Buddhism, in my experience, is a disconnection by one portion of the self from other parts of the self.   Unlike, say, Christianity, where one is supposed to control this other portion or other portions - and block the internal external voice of Satan trying to manipulate these parts or give them control of you - the Buddist is to observe them.  That is the practice.  To split emotions, thoughts, desires from the neo cortex.  Of course around the practice of meditation there are all sorts of open and implicit injunction to control emotions and the body and inhibit spontenaity.   But the open emphasis is not internal master slave, but witness/phenomenalist alone.   Just the tippy tip of consciousnesscortex is the I and he rest is simply events to be watched.

What a cop out.   I mean, I do understand.  If you actually identify with all that is you, it can get hairy.  And few have done this well.   But its another religion based on a judgment based on fear and not evolving. Zen seemed a bit different when I first hit it. A combination of freeing things up for spontenaity along with incredible focus training, but any time you put yourself in a space where someone can hit you with a stick for not sitting up straight enough - and include what that means metaphorically - well, that's what you are going to internalize as a self-relation process. Your spontenaity will be like the wit of between war upper class Brits. Clever as shit, perhaps, but, shallow.

Hinduism, say mystic Shaivism since there are many Hinduisms, fills the cup more.   With bhakti practices.   You are just another empty observer, cutting off emotions, desires and thoughts, calling them ego, in whatever terms you have pejoratively, but the focus is on connecting to a kind of Borg heart in the guru or channeling love and serving your ass off.   Serve, surrender.   Taking its guiding metaphors from class dyanamics and war and demanding one see God as a Brahmin or conquering army.  While all the time being as loving and good and self-denying as possible to get in the ironically colored orange robes.

There is magic there.  I mean real magic.  But what a cost.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Wed May 21, 2014 12:25 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Fri May 23, 2014 4:36 am

Kovacs wrote:
Buddhism, in my experience, is a disconnection by one portion of the self from other parts of the self.   Unlike, say, Christianity, where one is supposed to control this other portion or other portions - and block the internal external voice of Satan trying to manipulate these parts or give them control of you - the Buddist is to observe them.  That is the practice.  To split emotions, thoughts, desires from the neo cortex.  Of course around the practice of meditation there are all sorts of open and implicit injunction to control emotions and the body and inhibit spontenaity.   But the open emphasis is not internal master slave, but witness/phenomenalist alone.   Just the tippy tip of consciousnesscortex is the I and he rest is simply events to be watched.

Every objectivity is a disconnection.
In the case of original Buddhism, the stabilizing plane of keeping one portion fixed from within which to observe the other portions is breathing-rhythm, the in-and-out, that is one's own beingness.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is revered most in Buddhism because of its stability-plane of the Lotus asana that ensures optimal rhythm in breathing.
The disciplined practice of the eight-fold path of Observation was meant to grant spontaneity than inhibit it, by proper allignment of the drives from the subtlest subconsciousness to the highest consciousness; nirvana was the achievement of extinguishing abstract phenomenal accretions to the process of self-formation or self-real-ization.
I agree with what you say of Xt. Norman Brown in his Life Against Death, presents Xt. as a masochism, a self-mutilation from self-lack, while platonism was an aggression focussed outward into the Ideal from a similar lack of self-completion;

"The Platonic Eros is the child of defect or want. Its direction is away from the insufficient self; its aim is to possess the object which completes it (there is a Platonic residue in Freud's inadequate notion of object-choice). The Christian Agape, with its self-sacrificial structure, has the same basis in the insufficiency of the self, but in it the self can be completed by no object and therefore must be extinguished. In the words of Luther, "To love is the same as to hate one-self"; in the words of St. Augustine, "Love slays what we have been that we may be what we were not."
From the psychoanalytical point of view, Platonic Eros is inseparable from an aggressive component, Christian Agape inseparable from a masochistic component." [Brown, Life against Death]


Quote :
What a cop out.   I mean, I do understand.  If you actually identify with all that is you, it can get hairy.  And few have done this well.   But its another religion based on a judgment based on fear and not evolving.  Zen seemed a bit different when I first hit it.  A combination of freeing things up for spontenaity along with incredible focus training, but any time you put yourself in a space where someone can hit you with a stick for not sitting up straight enough - and include what that means metaphorically - well, that's what you are going to internalize as a self-relation process.   Your spontenaity will be like the wit of between war upper class Brits.  Clever as shit, perhaps, but, shallow.

I believe real freedom flows from within the law, not free of it.
The spontaneity of the most graceful ballerina is years of systemic bodily discipline that then becomes automatized as instinct or second nature.
Likewise, I do believe correct body gestures and postures have an impact on the mind, but, yes, I do agree things like this are always going to be susceptible to exploitation by the "Masters", but why throw the baby with the bathwater, etc.

Quote :
Hinduism, say mystic Shaivism since there are many Hinduisms, fills the cup more.   With bhakti practices.   You are just another empty observer, cutting off emotions, desires and thoughts, calling them ego, in whatever terms you have pejoratively, but the focus is on connecting to a kind of Borg heart in the guru or channeling love and serving your ass off.   Serve, surrender.   Taking its guiding metaphors from class dyanamics and war and demanding one see God as a Brahmin or conquering army.  While all the time being as loving and good and self-denying as possible to get in the ironically colored orange robes.

There is magic there.  I mean real magic.  But what a cost.

This is true; the "cult" of Hinduism is definitely a perversity; you should read books by Hugh Urban on the scandals involved in Tantric practices, which unfortunately, do have something valuable and authentic to add.
It reminds me of Crowley too; take his [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for example - if you already know how to separate the chaff from the grain, they are very neat simplifications for self-training.
I take the real essence of Hinduism to be in the Vedas, a few ancient Upanishads, and the Gita.

Btw., what you say about the teacher-pupil relation was an ancient custom among the greeks and the celts too:

Quote :
"There are analogies to this sacredness and strictness of literary relations in the literary history of two societies with little or no intellectual likeness to the Hindus. Mr. Grote’s theory of the Homeric poetry, taken in a mass (ii. 176-178), is that it was the aggregate production, not of one man, but of a gens or clan of Homeridæ, of whom Homer was the name-giving ancestor, real or supposed, the ‘divine or semi-divine eponymus or progenitor, in whose name and glory the individuality of every member of the gens was merged.’ ‘Homer is no individual, but the divine or heroic father of the Homerids, the ideas of worship and ancestry, coalescing, as they constantly did, in the Grecian mind.’ A still nearer analogy is one which, like many others, occurs in the ancient legal literature of the Irish. ‘Literary foster-age,’ I wrote in a former work (‘Early History of Institutions,’ p. 242), ‘was an institution nearly connected with the existence of the Brehon law schools, and it consisted of the various relations established between the Brehon teacher and the pupils he received into his house for instruction in the Brehon lore. However it may surprise us that the connection between Schoolmaster and Pupil was regarded as peculiarly sacred by the ancient Irish and as closely resembling natural fatherhood, the Brehon tracts leave no room for doubt on the point. It is expressly laid down that it created the same Patria Potestas as actual paternity; and the literary foster-father, though he teaches gratuitously, has a claim through life upon portions of the property of the literary foster-son. Thus the Brehon with his pupils constituted, not a school in our sense, but a true family. While the ordinary foster-father was bound by the law to give education of some kind to his foster-children—to the sons of Chiefs instruction in riding, shooting with the bow, swimming, and chess-playing, and instruction to their daughters in sewing, cutting out, and embroidery—the Brehon trained his foster-sons in learning of the highest dignity, the lore of the chief literary profession. He took payment, but it was the law which settled it for him. It was part of his status, and not the result of a bargain."

Cf. with what Nietzsche says,

"How do men attain great strength and a great task? All the virtues and efficiency of body and soul are acquired laboriously and little by little, through much industry, self-constraint, limitation, through much obstinate, faithful repretition of the same labours, the same renunciations; but there are men who are the heirs and masters of this slowly-acquired manifold treasure of virtue and efficiency - because, through fortunate and reasonable marriages, and also through fortunate accidents, the acquired and stored-up energies of many generations have not been squandered and dispersed but linked together by a firm ring and by will." [WTP, 995]

Originally, receiving a "mantra" or a teaching from a Guru was more potent because he compressed the accumulated knowledge of those before him along with his, and so what he was really transmitting was an Unbroken lineage -

allign

|
|
|
|

The uninterrupted line is a Fire.

The guru literally therefore translated to gu (Darkness) and ru (Remover)  - the remover of darkness - Light.
One wasn't learning from an "individual", but in dialogue with Fire, with light.
Its easy to understand why the Hindu Law codes - the Manu himself traces his guru-lineage ultimately to the Sun.

There was nothing 'arbitrary' about this vertical 'guru-tradition'; it is the strongest method of lasting enculturation, a testament to why even Indo-Europeanism has survived this long;

Muhlmann wrote:
"In this way it becomes clear that MSC also plays a decisive role in the case of vertical organisation of cultures. The term ‘vertical’ means – cultural traits are passed on to the next generation.

By ‘horizontal’ is meant the passing on of traits from individual to individual belonging to the same generation. Cultures are vertical by definition, i.e. culture is only what its differential traits have passed on at least one time from one generation to the next.

Verticality as a condition for functioning of cultures belongs to the anthropological constants. Mankind can only survive in the form of cultural organisations. They are dependent on the previous generation’s knowledge of rules because it is simply not possible to learn all the techniques required for survival from scratch in one single generation.

What is especially interesting about the enculturating technique of ‘liturgy’ by means of which founding events are transferred, is the verticalisation of stimuli emanating from MSC events. The stimulus is acute at the actual time of the event and subsequently is transformed by means of artificial storage systems into a latent stimulus such as scriptures and pictures.

Existing in this form, it can be passed on to any number of generations. The latent stimulus is transformed back into an acute stimulus by means of liturgies. The vertical traditional of liturgical practice however, must not be allowed to be severed.

As a culture and/or a religion is extinct, as soon as its content is to be found solely in books and pictures." [Maximal Stress Co-operation Theory]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:58 am

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:56 pm

What do you guys think of this guy:

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:06 pm

I watched parts of two of his vids...he's interesting.

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PostSubject: x Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:20 pm

perpetualburn wrote:
What do you guys think of this guy:




He's great for the most part, if you minus his neo-platonist/plotinian/perennialist beliefs. Although he's a superb Pali scholar and he himself recommends Evola's book on the same, 'Doctrine of Awakening', the latter is far more accurate. If one understands the idea of freedom as forever leaving this world and dissolving oneself away into the "intelligent one" or the "intelligent mind" in the sense of Plotinus that I have just described in the Camus' post in the Xt. thread here, never taking birth again in this world - I don't believe that was the original teaching of the Buddha. But if you understand by his saying that the idea of freedom is 'maximum' dis-identification as (degree and not an absolute) from the labels of this world, and rebirth means coming into your own, in such a way, after real physical death, the subtle-soul 'knows' which 'body' to adopt, then this video is a real good one.
You have to refine what he teaches a bit. This is part of Epigenetics and my own N. signature - the habits you adopt everyday to prepare for the character you want, you idealize - unless you adopt everyday, every day,,, then at the time of death, you'll be left in oblivion. Why its important to love your family, your race, or your country, or your religion, if you do love them,,, because the genii after death prefers to stay/be reborn in the same home or family-pool, etc. Of course that's just my premonition. The last thought before death, according to Buddhism, is the most crucial juncture of future self-determinism.

I take the last para. in the following passage in the non-plotinian sense I just described:

Quote :
""Whoever, Bhumija, being an ascetic or a Brahmin, cognizes wrongly... acts wrongly... and thus perhaps with hope leads the life of an ascetic, cannot possibly reach the goal, and thus perhaps without hope leads an ascetic life, cannot possibly reach the goal. And why not? Because, Bhumija, he does not from the very foundation understand the reaching of the goal."

"...man always becomes what he would like to become, that is, whatever he desires and thirsts after; for whatever we think after, that we grasp. Of course this is not to be understood as if it meant that a mere wish would be sufficient; but what has directing force, is the nature of our willing and of our desire in its innermost depth, that means, our innermost character, as it appears in action as blind impulse, without being guided by the light of knowledge. For according to the foregoing expositions, exactly in this situation is our will at the decisive moment of death, when it determines our grasping of a new germ. To know to what kind of grasping our will may lead us, we must dive into the depths of our animal life, as it reveals itself when the dominating influence of reason is eliminated, thus, in emotion, or still more, in a state of intoxication, or in dream. Hence it is not decisive, if a person in rational reflection does not murder or steal, is neither unchaste nor heartless, but only if he is incapable of all this even in the height of passion, nay, even in his dreams. Only that which even in such conditions never more arises, never more can arise within us, of which therefore, as we can easily feel, we are absolutely incapable, only this is definitively eradicated from our will. Therefore it can never any more make itself felt when in death we have entirely abandoned consciousness, and precisely because of this, cannot say more as blind impulse determine our new grasping. If, for example, I know that I could not, under any circumstances, conceive the thought of killing, not evem in a dream, then I am sure that this inclination no longer exists within me, thus also can no longer determine my new grasping at death. But if I must confess, after having carefully studied myself, that in a state of clear consciousness I am indeed incapable of killing, but might become a murderer in an excited or drunken state, then my will is of such sort that in the future, if unilluminated by any consciousness, it might cause a grasping of a germ in a world where murders can be, and are, indeed, committed; and where perhaps also this capacity of will still asleep within me, under the appropriate external circumstances, - for instance, if I were born intoa rude and uncultured family - might some time or other flame up again and make a murderer. The fundamental condition for the certainty that after death I shall not become attached to a germ in a low-class, pain-laden world, is therefore this, that I know myself, at latest, in the hour of my death, to be definitively free from all bad inclinations. In so far as this is the case, in so far as a man has acquired confidence, virtue, experience, renunciation, wisdom, and thereby become nobler and purer and thereby more adapted to attachment in higher and purer spheres, he also has it in his own hands to bring about his rebirth in closely determined circles or spheres, be it in a power high-placed family, or in a world of gods. By incessantly and intensively occupying himself with thoughts relating to this, he may turn his entire striving in this direction, until he is quite absorbed, completely saturated with it, so that of itself the unshakeable certitude comes to him: After death I can no longer possibly sink into the depths, as little as coal-smoke, when cleansed, that is, freed from its heavier components, can settle in lower levels, but must rise upwards. Indeed, in this decisive unconscious condition, I can grasp no other germ but the one desired, because every other would be contrary to my innermost nature, that is, to the characteristic direction of my will, to my deepest thirst for a certain definite mode of existence, and therefore, without further ado, even though blind, would be rejected by it."

"Therefore the question arises, as to what it is which in such a case determines the new grasping upon death. The answer again is very simple. It depends upon whether the good or the bad striving comes into activity at the moment of death and thus determines the new grasping.

"The will lies smouldering, so to say, beneath the ashes, and need not enter consciousness for a long time. To understand this thoroughly, we have only to reflect how very few men really know their own character, that is, the sum of the tendecies of their will. Either the outer motives are wanting which might wake the impulses and inclinations slumbering within them, or external circumstances, more especially the laws of the state, hinder the expession of an evilly disposed will, but not this will itself."

"Though the causality of all willing is thus beyond all doubt, it does not necessaruly extend in every case beyond death into one of our future rebirths. This, on the contrary, is only the case, if the tendency of will, the outcome of which was a given deed, is present at all even though only in latent condition, at the moment of death, when the new grasping takes place. If at this moment it already again has been completely rooted out, then neither itself nor, of course, the deed resulting forces from it, can in any way be of causal importance for the new attachment and those that follow later on..."


"The changing state of rebirth always new,
By pain and sorrow chased, I wandered through.
In vain I often looked around for him,
Who once did build this house of suffering.
Builder, I know you now, and laugh at you.
You'll never build for me a house of bone;
No longer will my mind create anew, -
Since ghastly thirsting is destroyed, for true."

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:54 am

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Was the founder of Shaolin kung fu Chinese? Was Zen Buddhism created by a Japanese sage? What role did Nordics play, if any, in the formation of Far Eastern civilizations and cultures?

This remarkable essay draws together considerable evidence that the founder of Buddhism, martial arts and the Zen philosophy, did indeed lay with an Indo-European-descended wanderer into the Far East.

Drawing on original descriptions and writings from China and elsewhere, the author shows that despite modern depictions of Buddha and his proselytizing acolytes as Mongoloid, the more ancient sources described him with European, and even Nordic, features.

Finally, a section on DNA evidence is provided which confirms the link between Europeans and Ancient China. Footnotes, references, illustrated. Fascinating reading!
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:42 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:38 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:23 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:33 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon May 16, 2016 10:21 pm

Suzuki's 'Manual of Zen Buddhism' is more of an Eckhartianism and no good, but there are some excellent metaphors that We can glean from it, with regard to the rootless proliferation of words, concepts, understanding, disconnected from reality.

Suzuki wrote:
"Wordiness and intellection--

The more with them the further astray we go; Away therefore with wordiness and intellection, And there is no place where we cannot pass freely.

When we return to the root, we gain the meaning; When we pursue external objects, we lose the reason. The moment we are enlightened within,
We go beyond the voidness of a world confronting us.

-

The lion-roaring of the doctrine of fearlessness--
Hearing this, the timid animals' brains are torn in pieces,
Even the scented elephant runs wild forgetting its native dignity;
It is the heavenly dragon alone that feels elated with joy,
calmly listening [to the lion-roaring of the Buddha

-

But it is like shooting an arrow against the sky,

When the force is exhausted the arrow falls on the ground.


-

Only let us take hold of the root and not worry about the branches; It is like a crystal basin reflecting the moon,
And I know now what this mani-gem is,
Whereby not only oneself is benefited but others, inexhaustibly;

The moon is serenely reflected on the stream, the breeze passes softly through the pines,
Perfect silence reigning unruffled-what is it for?

-

The Mind like a mirror is brightly illuminating and knows no obstructions,
It penetrates the vast universe to its minutest crevices;
All its contents, multitudinous in form, are reflected in the Mind,
Which, shining like a perfect gem, has no surface, nor the inside.


-

There are no inferior trees in the grove of sandalwoods,

Among its thickly-growing primeval forest lions alone find their abode;

Where no disturbances reach, where peace only reigns, there is the place for lions to roam;
All the other beasts are kept away, and birds do not fly in the vicinity.

-

When you miss even a tenth of an inch, the difference widens up to one thousand miles.

-

When the lotus blooms in the midst of a fire, it is never destroyed.

-

The great elephant does not walk on the hare's lane,
Supreme Enlightenment goes beyond the narrow range of intellection;

Cease from measuring heaven with a tiny piece of reed
." [Manual of Zen Buddhism]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon May 16, 2016 10:25 pm

Suzuki's Ox Aphorisms can be seen as Nietzschean commentaries on mastery, and commanding and obeying in WTP.

The Ox. Part I.

Suzuki wrote:
"Searching for the Ox. The beast has never gone astray, and what is the use of searching for him? The reason why the oxherd is not on intimate terms with him is because the oxherd himself has violated his own inmost nature. The beast is lost, for the oxherd has himself been led out of the way through his deluding senses. His home is receding farther away from him, and byways and crossways are ever confused. Desire for gain and fear of loss burn like fire; ideas of right and wrong shoot up like a phalanx.

Alone in the wilderness, lost in the jungle, the boy is searching, searching! The swelling waters, the far-away mountains, and the unending path; Exhausted and in despair, he knows not where to go,
He only hears the evening cicadas singing in the maple-woods.

II

Seeing the Traces. By the aid of the sutras and by inquiring into the doctrines, he has come to understand something, he has found the traces. He now knows that vessels, however varied, are all of gold, and that the objective world is a reflection of the Self. Yet, he is unable to distinguish what is good from what is not, his mind is still confused as to truth and falsehood. As he has not yet entered the gate, he is provisionally said to have noticed the traces.

By the stream and under the trees, scattered are the traces of the lost; The sweet-scented grasses are growing thick--did he find the way? However remote over the hills and far away the beast may wander, His nose reaches the heavens and none can conceal it.


III

Seeing the Ox. The boy finds the way by the sound he hears; he sees thereby into the origin of things, and all his senses are in harmonious order. In all his activities, it is manifestly present. It is like the salt in water and the glue in colour. [It is there though not distinguishable as an individual entity.] When the eye is properly directed, he will find that it is no other than himself,

On a yonder branch perches a nightingale cheerfully singing;
The sun is warm, and a soothing breeze blows, on the bank the willows are green; The ox is there all by himself, nowhere is he to hide himself;
The splendid head decorated with stately horns what painter can reproduce him?

IV

Catching the Ox. Long lost in the wilderness, the boy has at last found the ox and his hands are on him. But, owing to the overwhelming pressure of the outside world, the ox is hard to keep under control. He constantly longs for the old sweet-scented field. The wild nature is still unruly, and altogether refuses to be broken. If the oxherd wishes to see the ox completely in harmony with himself, he has surely to use the whip freely.

With the energy of his whole being, the boy has at last taken hold of the ox: But how wild his will, how ungovernable his power!
At times he struts up a plateau,
When lo! he is lost again in a misty unpenetrable mountain-pass.

V

Herding the Ox. When a thought moves, another follows, and then another-an endless train of thoughts is thus awakened. Through enlightenment all this turns into truth; but falsehood asserts itself when confusion prevails. Things oppress us not because of an objective world, but because of a self-deceiving mind. Do not let the nose-string loose, hold it tight, and allow no vacillation.

The boy is not to separate himself with his whip and tether,
Lest the animal should wander away into a world of defilements; When the ox is properly tended to, he will grow pure and docile; Without a chain, nothing binding, he will by himself follow the oxherd.

VI

Coming Home on the Ox's Back. The struggle is over; the man is no more concerned with gain and loss. He hums a rustic tune of the woodman, he sings simple songs of the village-boy. Saddling himself on the ox's back, his eyes are fixed on things not of the earth, earthy. Even if he is called, he will not turn his head; however enticed he will no more be kept back.

Riding on the animal, he leisurely wends his way home:
Enveloped in the evening mist, how tunefully the flute vanishes away!
Singing a ditty, beating time, his heart is filled with a joy indescribable! That he is now one of those who know, need it be told?


VII

The Ox Forgotten, Leaving the Man Alone. The dharmas are one and the ox is symbolic. When you know that what you need is not the snare or set-net but the hare or fish, it is like gold separated from the dross, it is like the moon rising out of the clouds. The one ray of light serene and penetrating shines even before days of creation.

Riding on the animal, he is at last back in his home,
Where lo! the ox is no more; the man alone sits serenely.
Though the red sun is high up in the sky, he is still quietly dreaming, Under a straw-thatched roof are his whip and rope idly lying.

VIII

The Ox and the Man Both Gone out of Sight. All confusion is set aside, and serenity alone prevails; even the idea of holiness does not obtain. He does not linger about where the Buddha is, and as to where there is no Buddha he speedily passes by. When there exists no form of dualism, even a thousand-eyed one fails to detect a loop-hole. A holiness before which birds offer flowers is but a farce.

All is empty-the whip, the rope, the man, and the ox:
Who can ever survey the vastness of heaven?
Over the furnace burning ablaze, not a flake of snow can fall:
When this state of things obtains, manifest is the spirit of the ancient master." [Zen Buhddism]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon May 16, 2016 10:27 pm

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"He who cannot obey himself will be commanded. That is the nature of living creatures." [TSZ]

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Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"To what extent resistance is present even in obedience; individual power is by no means surrendered. In the same way, there is in commanding an admission that the absolnte power of the opponent has not been vanquished, incorporated, disintegrated. "Obedience" and "commanding" are forms of struggle." [WTP, 642]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Every living thing reaches out as far from itself with its force as it can, and overwhelms what is weaker: thus it takes pleasure in itself. The increasing "humanizing" of this tendency consists in this, tbat there is an ever subtler sense of how hard it is really to incorporate another: while a crude injury done him certainly demonstrates our power over him, it at the same time estranges his will from us even more-and thus makes him less easy to subjugate." [WTP, 769]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"That a fluid setting of the boundaries of power is a quality of life. A certain ignorance in which the ruler is kept regarding the individual functions and even malfunctions of the community - this is among the conditions which make ruling possible. In short, we gain esteem for not-knowing, too, for the rough survey, for simplifying and falsifying, for the perspectival.
The danger in all direct questioning ofthe subject about the subject, and all self-contemplation ofthe mind, is that it could be useful and important for the subject's activity to misinterpret itself This is why we ask the body, and reject the testimony of the sharpened senses: we try, so to speak, to see whether the subordinated themselves can't take up communication with us." [Notebooks]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Every sovereign instinct has the others for its tools, retainers, flatterers: it never lets itself be called by its ugly name: and it countenances no praise in which it is not also praised indirectly. All praise and blame in general crystallizes around every sovereign instinct to form a rigorous order and etiquette. This is one of the causes of falsity.
Every instinct that struggles for mastery but finds itself under a yoke requires for itself, as strengthening and as support for its self-esteem, all the beautiful names and recognized values: so, as a rule, it ventures forth under the name of the "master"...

It is a sign of a broken instinct when man sees the driving force and its "expression" ("the mask") as separate things - a sign of self-contradiction, and victorious far less often. Absolute innocence in bearing, word, affect, a "good conscience" in falsity, the certainty with which one grasps the greatest and most splendid words and postures - all this is necessary for victory.

In the other case: when one has extreme clearsightedness one needs the genius of the actor and tremendous training in self-control if one is to achieve victory. That is why priests are the most skillful conscious hypocrites; then princes, whom rank and ancestry have endowed with a kind of acting ability.

Thirdly, men of society, diplomats. Fourthly, women.
Basic idea: falsity seems so profound, so omnisided, the will
so clearly opposed to direct self-knowledge and the calling of things by their right names, that it is very highly probable that truth, will to truth is really something else and only a disguise." [WTP, 377]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"A morality, a mode of living tried and proved by long experience and testing, at length enters consciousness as a law, as dominating- And therewith the entire group of related values and states enters into it: it becomes venerable, unassailable, holy, true; it is part of its development that its origin should be forgotten- That is a sign it has become master-" [WTP, 514]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
""Beauty" is for the artist something outside all orders of rank, because in beauty opposites are tamed; the highest sign of power, namely power over opposites; moreover, without tension: -that violence is no longer needed; that everything follows, obeys, so easily and so pleasantly-that is what delights the artist's will to power." [WTP, 803]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] PZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"One must learn in time to command-just as much as to obey." [WTP, 918]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzuki wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [ZB]

Nietzsche wrote:
"The highest and most illustrious human joys, in which existence celebrates its own transfiguration, come, as is reasonable, only to the rarest and best-constituted men; and even to these only when they themselves and their ancestors have lived long, preparatory lives directed to this goal, and not even in the knowledge of this goal. Then an overflowing wealth of the most multifarious forces and the most dextrous power of "free willing" and lordly command dwell amicably together in one man; the spirit is then as much at home in the senses as the senses are at home in the spirit; and whatever takes place in the spirit must enkindle a subtle extraordinary happiness and play in the senses." [WTP, 1051]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:57 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:08 pm

Audio text of excerpts on Buddhism from Evola's Doc. of Awakening.



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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:47 pm

Diamond Sutra wrote:
“Subhuti, any person who awakens faith upon hearing the words or phrases of this Sutra will accumulate countless blessings and merit.”

“How do I know this? Because this person must have discarded all arbitrary notions of the existence of a personal self, of other people, or of a universal self. Otherwise their minds would still grasp after such relative conceptions. Furthermore, these people must have already discarded all arbitrary notions of the non-existence of a personal self, other people, or a universal self. Otherwise, their minds would still be grasping at such notions. Therefore anyone who seeks total Enlightenment should discard not only all conceptions of their own selfhood, of other selves, or of a universal self, but they should also discard all notions of the non-existence of such concepts.”

Arbitrary notions. Arbitration is defined by its being done artificially by a self. This means a maximization of meaning in self, by ridding self (ego?) of what it promises itself and by re-discovering/re-engaging what it ignores about itself.

Cutting away is always the easiest to do nihilistically. One can deny that they are ignoring internal states and no one could challenge them. Adding is always more difficult because the other may ask for proof or present evidence to the contrary.  In the former, one dismisses their own internal experiences so one may easily lie. On the former case, one is always going to be more defensive because there is a higher social cost: namely, either you don't know yourself and look a fool, or you come off as an explicit liar.

Diamond Sutra wrote:
Subhuti replied, “As far as I have understood the lord Buddha’s teachings, there is no independently existing object of mind called the highest, most fulfilled, awakened or enlightened mind. Nor is there any independently existing teaching that the Buddha teaches. Why? Because the teachings that the Buddha has realized and spoken of cannot be conceived of as separate, independent things and therefore cannot be described. The truth in them is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is, nor is it not. What does this mean? What this means is that Buddhas and disciples are not enlightened by a set method of teachings, but by an internally intuitive process which is spontaneous and is part of their own inner nature.

The men who take identity in being part of something, not just in being separate.

Also, notice: "It neither is, nor is it not."
Negate this so it says: It either is or it is not.

The meaning changes significantly. In fact, the former is a complete rejection of the framework of the latter. They occupy two different logical methods.

Abductive reasoning takes previous experience and then tries to gather more information about the subject to relate it to then.
Included in these past experiences are imaginations/promises, which they mind constructs as a hypothesis. In this we have the logic of Bottom-Up reasoning, which looks st the world and then looks for the most likely explanation until a better one arises. What is insufficient/questioned is the explanation, not the evidence.

Deductive reasoning is Top-Down. Even a true proposition of the world cannot ever be fully proven in a deductive logic system. One requires a premise which "takes into account all things" in order to accomplish the perfect True/False, 1/0 value. Of course computers might be able to, but they deteriorate like anything else and their behavior becomes erratic. If it is not defined by its behavior, then what? Anyhow, the premises are insufficient/questioned, not the conclusion in this case - unless it's a deductively invalid argument (meaning, is_deductive = false).
(edit: I will admit, intuitively, inductive reasoning appears the more likely candidate for Top-Down reasoning. In fact, I would argue it is, over Deductive. However, Deductive reasoning is still the "negated" form linguistically of the statement. One might be able to make the further case that the reasoning opposite of Abductive reasoning is Inductive reasoning instead - and the methodological opposite as well to the passage's quote, even if not the linguistic.)
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Chapter 7, Verse 25 wrote:
I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency [yoga-māyā]; and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible.
Satyr talked of the Absent-Absolute, where if one is committed to their knowing it in any form, they may concoct any number of creative contraptions to protect it. That is a commitment to knowing - not a commitment to seeking its being known.
Chapter 7, Verse 16 wrote:
O best among the Bhāratas [Arjuna], four kinds of pious men render devotional service unto Me—the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute.
One may still behave as they know while also saying they do not when they are confronted.
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PostSubject: Re: Buddhism Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:59 pm

Ken Wheeler's answer to the new-age/modern self-denying nihilism of Buddhism is the Citta.

Ken Wheeler wrote:
[Discussing the Citta is] The best way to destroy the premise of modern Buddhism and its soul-denying nihilism, because it is a rancid heap of soul-denying nihilists. Christian and Jewish rejects hover around Buddhism like flies around a dungheap. Agnostics and Atheists and all of them alike. They believe that Buddhism is some form of moralistic Humanism.



Quote :
THE 17 PROPRIETARY DECLARATIONS MADE IN SUTTA ABOUT THE CITTA ALONE
Copyright 2003 webmaster attan.com

These 17 designations made in sutta are given only as regards the citta, no other proper noun is given such status. Nothing but the citta itself is lauded in so many proprietary and important ways as is the citta below. There is no higher acclaim in Buddhism than these 16 which are said only of the citta.

1. Citta is the only thing which is said to obtain the state of "non-clinging" (anupada) "This is immortality, that being the liberated mind (citta) which does not cling (anupada) after anything" [MN 2.265].

2. Citta is the only thing which is said to obtain the state of being "taintless" (anasava) [DN 2.35, MN 1.501, MN 3.20, SN 3.45...etc etc].

3. Citta is the only thing which is said to obtain/is gathered in "the realm of immortality": "he gathers his mind within the realm of Immortality (amataya dhatuya). This is tranquility; this is that which is most excellent!" [MN 1.436]. "This is immortality, that being the liberated citta" [MN 2.265]. [AN 1.282] "He gathers the mind inside the immortal realm".

4. Citta is the only thing which is said to be the basis (arammana) for Parinibbana.
Said immediately after Gotama's physical death: [DN 2.157] "No longer with (subsists by) in-breath nor out-breath, so is him (Gotama) who is steadfast in mind (citta), inherently quelled from all desires the mighty sage has passed beyond. With mind (citta) limitless (Brahma) he no longer bears sensations; illumined and unbound (Nibbana), his mind (citta) is definitely (ahu) liberated." The taintless (anasava) mind (citta) being = parinirvana: [SN 3.45] "The mind (citta) being so liberated and arisen from defilements, one is fixed in the Soul as liberation, one is quelled in fixation upon the Soul. Quelled in the Soul one is unshakable. So being unshakable, the very Soul is thoroughly unbound Parinirvana)." "This said: `the liberated mind (citta) which does not cling' means Nibbana" [MN2-Att. 4.68].

5. Citta is the only thing which is differentiated from the five aggregates (rupa/vedana/sanna/sankhara/vinnana): "Whatever form, feelings, perceptions, experiences, or consciousness there is (the five aggregates), these he sees to be without permanence, as suffering, as ill, as a plague, a boil, a sting, a pain, an affliction, as foreign, as otherness, as empty (suññato), as Selfless (anattato). So he turns his mind (citta, Non-aggregate) away from these; therein he gathers his mind within the realm of Immortality (amataya dhatuya). This is tranquility; this is that which is most excellent!" [MN 1.436, AN 4.422].
[MN 1.511] "For a long time I have been cheated, tricked and hoodwinked by my citta. For when grasping, I have been grasping onto form, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto feelings, , for when grasping, I have been grasping onto perceptions, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto experiences, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto consciousness."

6. Citta is the only thing which, when perfected by samadhi and panna, is = Soul (attan): "Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means one is supremely-fixed within the mind (citta)" [Silakkhandhavagga-Att. 1.168]. "'The purification of one's own mind', this means the light (joti) within one's mind (citta) is the very Soul (attano)" [DN2-Att. 2.479]. [Silakkhandhavagga-Att. 1.168] "Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means one is supremely-fixed within the mind (suppatitthitacitto)". [AN 2.6] "Him who is Lord of the mind (citta) possessed with supernormal faculties and quelled, that One is called 'fixed-in-the-Soul' (thitattoti)". [AN 1.196] "With mind (citta) emancipated from ignorance...this designates the Soul has become Brahma". [MN 1.213] "The collected and quelled mind is the Supreme Soul". "Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means steadfast in ones True-nature (thitasabha'vo)" [Tikanipa'ta-Att. 3.4].

7. Citta is the only thing which is said to be the basis/medium for the recollection of past lives: "directs his mind (citta) to the recollection of past lives" [DN 1.81].

8. Citta is the only thing which is said to be "its own foundation/not based in anything" (anarammana), therein philosophically anything which is "a thing in itself", i.e. "without a foundation of its own" is hence the basis for marking the mind as the Absolute (when wisdom and samadhi are culminated): Pati-A 2.478 "The sovereign-mind which is its own support (an-without + a'rammana=support) means the sovereign-mind is the foundation". Dh-A 4.26 "Ones own mind is the foundation of the Soul". MN-A 2.297 "Nibbana is the foundation, that being the emancipated-mind (citta)". Sn-A 2.583 "Emancipation is meant the foundation, that being the establishment of the emancipated mind". Theragatha-A 1.138 "Supramundane samadhi is the foundation of Nibbana, that being the exceedingly quelled mind (citta)"

9. Citta is the only thing which is compared to the "indestructible" diamond: [AN 1.124] "What, followers, is a being who has a diamond-mind (vajiru'pamacitto)? That one who has destroyed the taints (asavas) and has both a liberated mind (citta) and is liberated by wisdom. Just as there is nothing which a diamond cannot cut, be it stone or gem; so to is one with a diamond-mind who has destroyed the taints and has both a liberated mind (citta) and is liberated by wisdom. This is one who possesses a diamond-mind."

10. The entire Aryan path itself is said to both being and end with the citta (mind) as its basis: [MN 1.197] "Followers, the Brahma life is not lived for sake of gains, honors, or acclaim; nor is it lived for virtuousness, nor for absorptions, nor for gnosis and insight. This Brahma life is lived for the sole preeminent purpose of emancipation of the mind alone, which is the quintessential final core". [MN 1.301] "What is samadhi (the culmination of the entire Aryan path) for? Samadhi, friend, is for making the mind (citta) sovereign".

11. The citta is the only thing which is said to go to the light/heaven realm: [SN 5.370] "His mind goes heaven-bound to auspiciousness."

12. Most importantly, the citta is the only thing which is said to obtain freedom from nescience/ignorance/agnosis (avijja): [MN 1.279] "When his steadfast mind was perfectly purified, perfectly illumined, stainless, utterly perfect, pliable, sturdy, fixed, and everlastingly determinate then he directs his mind towards the gnosis of the destruction of defilements. Knowing thus and seeing thus his mind is emancipated from sensual desires, his mind is emancipated from becoming, his mind is emancipated from ignorance."

13. The only proper noun which is said to obtain the state of emancipation (vimutta) is the citta (cittavimutta).

14. As per the `superior' path VS. the `inferior' path, the mind is the sole basis for the `superior' path: "ariyacittassa anasavacittassa ari-
yamaggasamangino" [MN 3.72] "The Aryan citta, the taintless citta; this is that with which the Aryan path is endowed with".

15. The citta is the only thing which is deemed "the highest absolute": [MN 1.298] "Emancipation of the mind is the highest absolute." [MN 1.298] "Of all types of unmanifest emancipations of mind, the fixed unshakable emancipation of the mind is the highest supernal."

16. The entire basis for Buddhism itself is said to be for/ as regards the citta: "The purification of one's own mind (citta); this is the Doctrine of the Buddha" [DN 2.49]."How is it that one is called a `Buddha'?...gnosis that the mind (citta) is purified (visuddham)...such is how one is deemed a `Buddha'." [MN 2.144] [AN 1.6] "I do not have, followers, insight into anything or any dharma which, when made to become and made to expand that brings greater bliss than the mind (citta). The mind, followers, when made to become and made to expand, brings the greatest bliss." [SN 1.26] Those followers absorbed, their minds (citta) flawless having assimilated the Soul; a charioteer (Soul) in control of the reigns, sages like them guard this supranormal-power!

17. The citta is the only thing which is deemed to achieve `freedom from becoming (bhava)'. All thing "as become must pass. The borne, the become, the made, the create has no other fate than to pass just as they have arises". The philosophical implication that the citta can transcend causation/becoming cannot be denied. "My mind (citta) is emancipated from desire (kama), emancipated from becoming (bhava), emancipated from nescience/ignorance (avijja), `Emancipation! Emancipation alas!'...there exists no fruit more exquisite and perfect that this." [DN 1.84]
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