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PostSubject: Paganism and natural order. Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:44 am

Paganism is being deluted by hippies, commies, theist(christians, jews, muslims), capitalist, and movie industry, and people who see it as a trendy youth movement. So I thought we could do some revisionism, and talk about our views on this topic. Satyr had interesting things to say about the subject in one of his videos, which was actually why I really started to listen, and it really got me thinking.

Here is some of my views I've come to realise by myself, and I would like to get your insight and critique. So basically paganism is primeraly the worship of your ancestors. After a great man died in large family or a tribe, the father, leader, hero or who ever died was honoured by it's tribe for the sacrifice and work he did for the tribe or family. Hero was honored by memory, and the sotries of his deeds were told by singing of songs and tales. If the dead man in question was a great warrior, sailor or hunter, and did amazing things during his life stories were told about him during his life and after his death. This was a way to teach his skillset to rest of the tribe. Tales and stories would be told to teach that knowledge to a new generation. This way great man's deeds, tactics, and insights would not wanish. This way children would learn how to hunt, how to do tactics in battle, or how to sail the seas. Stories, legends and myths were a way to educate children and the next generation, so the next generation would be prepared for life and idenpendence, and thus the bloodline would survive.  

After many generations the stories started to mold, and ancestors became gods. If legend went around a hunter who was able to take down a bear or a wolf, that memory would morph, and sometimes the ancestor would even be a bear, or a wolf. Good sailors would be worshipped as the god of waters and seas. Many of the stories molded ancestors to be gods.  Some heros in ancient myths and tales got animal charectaristics, abilities and sometimes ancestors were the animals or would turn into animal by a curse. This is also how some animals are still being viewed with human charectaristics, just as owl is a wise, fox is sneaky and cunning, etc. Tales were also to teach heroic charectaristics to children. Thus paganism developed from ancestral of bloodlines and heros, to worshipping over all nature, and human identity or charectaristics(depending of your gender), which was seen evolutionary to be advantageous.

The worship of father, ancestors and heros came first. Then came natural enviroment, which provides you food especially hunting and fishing. I am not sure when the seasonal gods, and weather wielding(lightning, rain, sun) gods came to be worhsipped. Maybe those did not come directly from ancestral beliefs, but from the need to find explenation to why nature and weather was changing. I do think that many of the pagan ideas of gods morphed around seasons when agriculture was developed.

Second wave must have been, when tribes would go to war, and slave and marry women of the losing tribe. Stories would travel this way about other gods, and ancestors, and their deeds. Also I think this was the place how nordic and germanic mythos have very much similarity. I think it's safe to asume that at this point the symbolism came to be dominant.

There was no concept of equality, but the tribe and their social ladder developed around pride. Many of the laws were done around pride, and not around punishment.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:29 pm

Yes, and by worshiping your ancestors you worship your past.
Another way of describing this past, or the sum of all nurturing, is NATURE.

If you think about it, then entropy means increasing randomness, chaos, and it follows that the past is a state if less randomness, or what we call ORDER.
GOD, in the absolute sense, is a projection of the Big Bang completed, finalized, imploding into a singularity: the absolute Black Hole where all possibilities (space) are encompassed by a singular point, with no dimensions and so activity.
We also say that the past determined the present, causation, making the God projection another way of saying the absolute cause.
This is the Male Nihilistic tendency, which is in opposition to the feminine nihilism, we are currently in the process of - the towards absolute randomness, the limitation of all probabilities in a uniform, or absolute state where everything is possible (infinite space).
The Buddhists all this emptiness, because matter/energy is the interpretation of patterned (inter)activity.
Life is a patterned behavior.
Patterns is another way of saying order: consistency, predictability, reliability, stringency, repetitiveness, harmony, symmetry (beauty), intelligence, knowledge/experience, because both are the ordering of sensual data, as genes are an ordered state of bio-data.
Consciousness is this ongoing process of ordering incoming sensual stimulation: interpreting them by simplifying and generalizing and then integrating them into mental models: things, abstractions, rules, laws etc.

But the absolute is what is non-existing, so no God. The projection is a method of directing the Will.

The Hellenes had the ideal of balance, meaning Apollo in control over Dionysian processes.
The ordering, mind, reason, not denying instinct, nature, (Judeo-Christian asceticism) but trying to control it and direct it (Hellenic askisis, asceticism/athleticism).
The feminine dominated by the masculine in the psyche of each individual: THIS is MASCULINITY!
Not hatred or denial of the feminine, but its dominance, its control.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:33 pm

Love of self, is essentially the full acceptance of your past.
You honor your ancestors not by neglecting their faults or negative aspects, but by embracing them and trying to correct them in yourself.
Not changing the world to suit your insecurities, but changing yourself in relation to the world, by first knowing and accepting your past:
Know Thyself!!!!

I will struggle to become better but I will not hate myself when I fail, nor will I comfort myself with lies and excuses.
THAT is loving yourself, and the world that makes you possible.

This acceptance of one's own nature, one's own temporality, is what Nietzsche described as the overman, the overcoming of this resentiment inherit in liberalism and Judeo-Christianity and all nihilistic psychologies and world-views.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:17 pm

Now think of the liberal, Judeo-Christian, progressive positions.

A sense of shame for their past, projected as an accusation upon the other.
A hatred of self, again, transferred to the other.

Who introduced guilt and shame into the human mind in relation to nature and to self.
Ego has become an insult.
Consciousness, one's own thoughts, are now external to one's self.

This is why they always bring out emotion and project it as something coming from the other.
It is their hate and embarrassment, and rejection of self, which is directed towards an otherness. This is the hypocritical part.
When they speak of "freedom" it means a liberation from their nature, their past, the determinism sum of all nurturing, their heritage.  
Look at present day America and how shallow and superficial it is in all areas, but particularly in the arts.
All reduced to market value, the flavor of the month, the fashion which is ending. the moderns love being on that cutting-edge of change, it feels exhilarating to feel so self-absorbed.  
This result in the culture of hedonism, materialism, the ME generation of retards who are dissatisfied because they were sold on high expectations.
A rejection of the past, as insignificant or too restricting.
A denial of self, reducing identity to a shallow construct of the immediate.  

Then they turn to drugs, alcohol, God, anything to numb their sense of dissatisfaction, their inner emptiness, because they have no tradition, no past to draw inspiration and guidance and strength from.
Lost on the churning waves of temporality.

This is where they become the perfect tools of the system, because in their desperation to find substance they grab onto the most familiar ideas, ideals: those furnished by the system, immediately.
Their liberty is really a delusion, because you may be ignorant or forget or deny the past but it cares not about what you do: it determines you, no matter if you are aware or not.

They latch onto the most convenient, the easiest, the most popular, the fashionable, the things their peers are obsessing over, just to belong, to find a place, a purpose, a meaning, a self.  
A community of the lost, a herd of morons, running wherever the whip and the carrot directs them to go.
Like those schools of fish and those flocks of birds, in those vids I posted.
instinctive, reactionary, behavior requiring little thinking ...but only emoting, feeling, sensing, surrendering your will to otherness.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:43 pm

Satyr wrote: They latch onto the most convenient, the easiest, the most popular, the fashionable, the things their peers are obsessing over, just to belong, to find a place, a purpose, a meaning, a self. A community of the lost, a herd of morons, running wherever the whip and the carrot directs them to go. Like those schools of fish and those flocks of birds, in those vids I posted. instinctive, reactionary, behavior requiring little thinking ...but only emoting, feeling, sensing, surrendering your will to otherness. wrote:


This quote of yours reminds me of high school; everyone was so obsessed with the ghetto, hip-hop bullshit. And most of these clowns were white ( wiggers ). They acted so cheesy and inauthentic. But that was what was popular at the time and they wanted to fit in like the sheep they are. The hip-hop thing is still popular. I see fools jamming out to the most obnoxious, untalented hip-hop trash still - pretending like they are alpha-male primitives that get all the finest bitches. Creativity, talent, and individuality is perishing.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:56 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:40 am

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"Shadows

The modern European is just a shadow of his forebears:
The average Ancient European could run faster than the modern Olympic sprint champions
The average Ancient European could word by word memorize long poems just by hearing them recited one single time
The average Ancient European could throw a spear longer than the modern Olympic champions can throw a javelin

He could move huge stone blocks, weighing up to 1000 tons
He could make magnifying glasses of ice, and used them to make fire in only a few seconds.
More commonly he had magnifying glasses made of the quarts he found in the Alps
He could navigate the seas using Sun stones and star maps stored in his memory only
He commonly had perfect teeth, and even the old only very rarely suffered from dental caries
He would not even hurt the descendants of men whom had helped one of his own ancestors
If he surviving birth and childhood he could expect to grow as old as we do naturally today
He could perform brain surgery (trephination)
...and the patients survived
Some think he even mastered what we today would call sorcery

He was better than we are today, in all ways...

Why?

Because he lived in harmony with Mother Nature, and respected her laws
Because he cultivated the divine in man for hundreds of thousands of years,
by practising what we today call the European Religion (alias European Paganism)
Because he had not yet been dragged down into the mud by Judeo-Christianity, and all its offshots,
and had not yet lived in their spiritual sewer for up to 2000 years
Judeo-Christianity has been a disaster for Europe.

We are because of it soiled in all ways possible, and on the brink of extinction!
Apathy, weakness and cowardice are fruits of this foreign cult, and can only be cured by a return to the European Religion.

Act, be strong and be brave! Let us together return to life and a future for our European children."
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:01 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:01 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:01 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:01 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat May 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Alain de Benoist wrote:
"Paganism is not a "return to the past." It does not consist ofwhat could be called "one past versus another," con- trary to what Alain-Gerard Slama wrote so casually. It is not a manifestation of a desire to return to some kind of "lost paradise" (this is rather a Judeo-Christian theme) and even less, contrary to what Catherine Chalier declared so gratuitously, to a "pure origin."

In a time where one never stops talking about "roots" and "collective memory," the condemnation for being overly attached to the past is self-refuting. Every person is "first born," an heir. There is no individual or collective identity that does not take into account one's connection to those who create us, the source from which we emerged. Just as yesterday we had the grotesque spec- tacle of Christian missionaries worshipping their own gris gris while denouncing "pagan idols," it is somewhat comical today to wimess the denunciation of the "past" (European) by those who ceaselessly boast of the Judeo-Christian continuity and are always presenting for our edification the "ever relevant" examples of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and other proto-historical Bedouins.

On the one hand we must reach an understanding ofjust what this word "past" means. We refuse to give any credence whatsoever to the Judeo-Christian problematic that posits the past as a definitively passed point on a line that would necessarily conduct humanity from the Garden of Eden to Messianic times. We do not believe this has any historical meaning. For us the past is a dimension, a perspective that is totally relevant to the present. There are no such things- as "past" events until they insert themselves as such in the present. The perspective opened by how we represent these events to ourselves "transforms" our present in exactly the same fashion the meaning we give them by re-presenting them contributes to their own transformation. The "past" necessarily participates then with that characteristic of human consciousness known as temporality, which is neither the "quantity of (measur- able) time," as is commonly assumed today, nor the duration evoked by Bergson, which is the property of non-human nature temporality belongs to man alone. Life as "worry" (Sorge) is extensive of itself as Heidegger put it; therefore, it does not fit into any pre-established temporal framework. Man is nothing but a project. His consciousness itself is a project. To exist is to ex-sistere, to project (to hurl oneself forward). It is this specific mobility of the ex-tensiveness that Heidegger calls the "historizing" (Geschehen) of human existence-a historizing that absolutely marks "the very structure of human life, which, as a transcendent and revelatory reality, makes possible the hinoricity of a world." Man's historicity stems from the fact that he combines "past," "present," and "future" in the immediate present, which thus form three dimensions that mutually enrich and transform each other. From this perspective, the typically Judea-Christian reproach of too great an attachment to the past is entirely devoid of any meaning.

This kind of attachment to the past can only exist in a mono- linear historical perspective, in fact, in a history where what has "passed" cannot exist again. But this is not the perspective we take. We believe in the Eternal Return. In 1797, Holderlin wrote to Hebel, "There is no such thing as annihilation, therefore the youth of the world must be reborn out of our own decay." In fact, it is not a question ofgoing back to the past, but of connecting with it - and also, by that very fact, in a spherical conception of history, to connect to the eternal and cause it to surge back, to have consonance in life, and to disentangle itself from the tyranny of the logos, the terrible tyraMy of the Law, so as to re-establish the school of the mythos and life. In ancient Greece, Jean-Pierre Vernant observes, "the effort to remember the primary purpose of everything is not the construction of the individual past of a man who remembers the construction of his individual time, but conversely what allows him to escape time."

In the same way it is a question of referring to the "memory" of paganism not in a chronological way, so as to return to an "earlier time," but in a mythological way, to seek for that which, through time, surpasses time and still speaks to us today. It is a question of connecting to something that cmmot be surpassed rather than to something that has been "surpassed."
The tenns "beginning" and "end" therefore do not hold the same meaning for us that they do in the Judea-Christian problematic. In the pagan perspective the past is always future.  
Writes Heidegger, "What existed in the beginning, remains always in the future, remains constantly under the control of what is in the future." [On Being a Pagan]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat May 17, 2014 6:29 pm

Alain de Benoist wrote:
"In his Introduction to Metaphysics/ Heidegger specifically exam- ines the question of the "past." A people, he says, can triumph over the "darkening of the world" and its decline only if its sights are permanently set upon its destiny. Now, a people "will be able to gain a destiny from its vocation only when it creates in itselfa resonance, a possibility of resonance for this vocation, and grasps its tradition creatively. In other words, it is necessary "to recapture the beginning of our historical-spiritual existence, in order to transform it into a new beginning."

And Heidegger adds, "But we do not repeat a beginning by reducing it to something past and now known, which need merely be imitat- ed; no, the beginning must be begun again mo1·e originally, with all the strangeness, darkness, insecurity that attend a true begin- ning."8 In fact "the beginning is there. It is not behind us as some- thing that has been there a long time but it stands before us. The beginning has burst into our future. In the distance it pursues its greatness, a grandeur it is imperative we catch up with."
So it is not a return so much as a recourse to paganism. Or, if one prefers, it is not a return to paganism but a return of paganism toward what Heidegger in this page of luminous importance called "another beginning."

If one accepts the greatness of something, says Heidegger, "then in the beginning of that greatness remains something yet greater." Paganism today therefore clearly requires a certain familiarity with ancient Indo-European religions, their history, their theology, their cosmology, their symbolism, their myths, and the mythemes ofwhich they are composed. A scholarly famil- iarity, but also a spiritzllll familiarity; an epistemological familiarity that is also an intuitive familiarity. This is not simply the accumulation of knowledge concerning the beliefs of various European regions from the time predating Christianity (nor is it ignoring what may distinguish them, sometimes profoundly, from each other), but primarily of identifying within these beliefs the projection, the transposition, of a certain number ofvalues which, as heirs to a culture, belong to us and concern us directly. (This consequently leads to the re-interpretation ofthe history of the last two millennia as the story of a fundamental spiritual struggle).

When the undertakings of previous generations come to grief, the natural response is to start over on this side of the bifurcation, to loosen the duration, and expand the space."  This says exactly what is involved here: to start over "on this side of the bifurcation" for another beginning. But no doubt such a scheme will appear blasphemous to the eyes of many. In Hebrew, the word "beginning" also carries the sense of "profanation." To begin something is to compete with God. The truth of this observation is underlined by a passage in Genesis that refers to Enoch, son of Seth as "the first to invoke the name ofYahweh" (4:26),12 which is interpreted inJewish theology as meaning not the beginning of monotheism but the start of paganism ("So one began. This verb means to profane. One began giving to men and statues the name of Saint Blessed Be He and to call gods idols," was the Rachi commnentary on Genesis 4:26).

The Renaissance of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries was precisely that: a rebirth. "What it involved," as Renan said, "was seeing Antiquity face to face." This rebirth was no journey backward or a simple resurgence of the "past," but on the contrary the point of departure for a new spiritual adventure, a new adventure of the Faustian soul that was now triumphant because it had awakened to itself. Nor is neo-paganism today a regression either. On the contrary it is the deliberate choice of a more authentic, harmonious, and powerful future - a choice that projects into the future, for new creations, the Eternal from which we come." [On Being a Pagan]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat May 17, 2014 6:30 pm

Alain de Benoist wrote:
"As Gilbert Durand notes in his commentary on Spengler, "far from being an apriori form of sensibility on the same plane as space, time is the antimony of space. The true intuition of time is that of a direction, a meaning.") To the contrary, in space nothing is predetermined in advance about the forms that will be created there. Here everything is much more directly dependent upon man. Asserting the primacy of space is, let me repeat, indirectly exalting man's power. Also, behind the opposition of time and space emerges another that is equally fundamental, between the time-eternity over which Yahweh rules and human time, which is a specifically historical time. This opposition is the classic one from Antiquity between intensity and duration. Unable to master time by very reason of his own finite existence, pagan man masters it through the intensity of his actions - and by the resulting "intensity" of the constructions specific to it. This seems to be what Nietzsche was alluding to in a famous passage from The Antichrist in which he recalls what Christianity, the "vampire" of the imperium Romanum, had contributed to the undoing of the Romans' magnificent creation: "the tremendous deed of the Romans in clearing the ground for a great culture which could take its time was undone overnight by Christianity."" The desire for creation flows logically out of this desire for intensity, as do the desire for form and the desire for style. By all evidence, the Bible's choice is duration; furthermore, the intensity of human actions tries, in the strict sense, the "patience" of Yahweh.

We find here the confrontation between a purely linear conception of time and a cyclical or "spherical" conception, which accepts, among other things, the Eternal Return of the Same. There is no possibility of return in Judeo-Christian monotheism: history cannot tum back on itself; it is going somewhere-toward a never seen event which will be its culmination and its end. Or rather, if there is a "return," it is on a whole different level: the end of history will be the equivalent of a return to the state that existed before history, but this "return" will be an absolute return. It will not be one return among others, an eternal dialectical movement of always starting over, but the radical affirmation, the sign of an absolute end of time, the reabsorption of human history called upon to close itself like a parenthetical expression.

On the other hand, there is no spatial or geographical return either. Levinas hit the nail on the head when he wrote: "To the myth of Ulysses returning to Ithaca, we seek to oppose the history of Abraham leaving his native land forever for one still unknown and forbidding his servant from even bringing his son back to this departure point." In the Bible, one must never go back; one must leave. To leave the city-Ur, Pithom, Babylon, which are human undertakings and places of perdition (but also subse- quently places of redemption: it was in the cities that new-born Christianity made its most spectacular progress)-and go toward the Promised Land. "The Jewish destiny," declares Samuel Trigano, "is to always be leaving Ur in Chaldea for Eretz-lsrael.'" In fact the arrival point is all that matters, a point determined (in the same way as the arrival point of history) by the "promise" of the Covenant and not the point of origin. Eretz-Israel is not a point of origin. It is not where the men of the Bible were engendered. Before being conquered, Eretz-Israel was a gift land, attributed and promised by Yahweh.

Pagan man feels the place of his birth through its relation to his ancestral lineage. He has a "mother-country." In biblical monotheism, to the contrary, there is no native land; there is only a final land, the land of destination that does not derive from any founding myth but clearly from a finality. Singularly enough this finality is more temporal than spatial, as its appropriation constitutes a prerequisite for the advent of Messianic Times. The land of Israel was promised twice: first to Moses by Yahweh (Exodus 6: 8, 23:20-33) when it still belonged to the Hittites, Amorites, and Canaanites, then during the time of the prophets. ("I am going to take the Israelites from among all the nations where they have gone. I am going to gather them from all directions and reunite them on their ground. I will make them one nation in the land, in the mountains ofisrael," Ezekiel 37:21-22). It is still promised much in the same way a fiancee was once "promised" to a man. In fact Eretz-Israel constitutes the fiancee, the future wife of the Hebrews. The Bible develops this nuptial symbolism at length. The law of the Sinai constitutes the ketuba, the marriage contract. The people of Israel are not children of a land; they are the sons of Yahweh...

It is not on the land of Israel, by birth and heritage, that this people was formed, but in Egypt and in the desert, through a moral and religious act. Eretz-lsrael is a fiancee, a wife, but she cannot become a mother--one of those earth mothers worshiped by the "idolatrous." It is a land that was made natal only through contractual proxy; it is a "native land that owes nothing to birth."' Hence the entire theology of exile and "return" (in the limits I have indicated), combined with that of silence and the word. It is also found, perhaps further away and repeated, in the Freudian Oedipal theory that views repression of an "unresolved" attachment to the mother as the source of neurosis - just as the prophets made persistent attachment to the earth mother a source of "idolatry."

This comparison can nonetheless be interpreted in different ways.

In Genesis, one of Cain's characteristic features was his desire for boundaries. He wished to materialize his ownership. According to one midrash, if Cain killed Abel, it was because the latter did not want to respect a division of property that the two had agreed upon. Under the terms of this division, Cain had obtained this world and Abel the "future world." But Abel then argued that he had rights over this world too, because, strictly speaking, as the world had only one creator, it could not truly be divided. (In my opinion this makes Cain's wrath quite understandable!) Condemned to exile and having settled in the "land of Nod" (Genesis 4:16), Cain then makes the distinctively "pagan" choice of intensity versus duration, space versus time-eternity. By constructing a city, as we have seen, he was visibly seeking to lay the foundations of a kingdom or an empire - and this is where his "pride" resided. He transformed, as Eisenberg and Abecassis properly put it, "his temporal issue into a spatial one."

The attitude developed by the Bible with respect to "setting down roots" is therefore extremely ambiguous. A sedentary lifestyle, in opposition to a nomadic one, is given a negative value. Eisenberg and Abecassis go so far as to read in it a condemnation of patriotism as a "pagan sentiment based on man's physical relationship to the earth, identical to the filial relationship in which the child is detennined genetically.

"Freedom with respect to sedentary lifestyles is, perhaps, the human form of being in the world," Levinas declares-which is only a half-truth, because "specifically human" freedom vis-a-vis a fixed dwelling cannot be construed as legitimizing the principle of rejecting all fixed dwellings. It is also curious to see how the Succoth feast, originally a typically agrarian feast (see Deuteronomy 16:13-16), subsequently became a nomadic one. Even after the formation of the kingdom of Israel and the settlement upon the Promised Land, the nomadic vocation continued to be embodied by the gerim, whose life is a long pilgrimage (maggour).

The universe is thus conceived in the Bible as a world with no spatial boundaries but limited in time, whereas in paganism it is considered to be limitless in time but a place where man has the duty to draw spatial boundaries. Frontiers established in space establish man as the master of the space he occupies. Boundaries in time, absolute caesuras, only show what distinguishes man from God. In the one case there are established roots and specificity, in the other, the vocation to universalism and deterritorialization. "Settlement within a country, attachment to a place, without which the world would become insignificant and hardly exist," writes Levinas again, "is the very scission of humanity into autochthones and foreigners." In principle, though, this "scission" does not imply either rejection or scorn. Rather it forms the primary condition for the maintenance and respect of collective differences. It is not so certain that the same holds true for the ideal of the abolition of frontiers, which Thorlief Boman regards, according to the Bible, as the normal state if not final destination of the world.

An ideal which is very close, in any case, to the very contemporary apologia of the "man with the soles of the wind," the Deleuzo-Guattarist "rhizome" (as opposed to the "root") and of universal nomadism, in a world where the non-place of the desert's anonymity tends to be replaced by the non-place of the urban environment's anonymity - whereas the "world" cities are no longer the places where history works toward its fulfillment but rather the site of its simulacrum and annihilation.

Andre Chouraqui speaks of a "verbal world." It is the activity (of man) that produces intensity, but it is the word (of Yahweh) that acts upon duration. In the Bible, the word is the decisive reality of the world of lived experience. In the extreme case, the world is commingled with the word that created it; in Hebrew the same word, davar, can mean either object or word. In paganism the decisive reality of the world of lived experience is the result of action.

Goethe's phrase: "In the beginning there was the action," responds to the phrase in the Scriptures: "In the beginning there was the word." In the face of the symphony that reigns in pagan religions, the Bible therefore poses silence as the metaphysical form of the cosmos (Andre Neher), silence where only the logos - the word of Yahweh resonates, although in the final instance, the being of that particular being can only be identical to silence as well.

The Judea-Christian world is a world that has been issued from the word. This is why the name of Yahweh, an unspeakable name, is declared all-powerful (see Psalms 8 ). It is the word that creates the bond between created being and non-created being. One reads in Genesis: "God said, 'Let there be Light"' (1:3). One enters the dynamic phase of the creation through the intermediary of the logos. In the Bible, "to do" is linked with "to say," with what is expressed and heard, with what is uttered and understood from the onset. Spoken or written, the word is Revelation: a sublimation of verbal-motor behavior. When the Elohim "take" Adam to place him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:15), this taking is effectuated by the word. This is also the failure of Cain's "words" to Abel (Genesis 4:8 ) which prompted the fratricide. And likewise, finally, the fact that the world was created by ten words (in the rabbinical tradition the phrase: "In the beginning" is considered as one word, the tenth, which is added to the other nine); it is through ten "words," ten "commandments" that God gave Moses his Law on Mount Sinai." [On Being a Pagan]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed May 28, 2014 8:23 am

It is retards like the Xts. and the Jews and the Muslims, who abhor idol-worship...

Heidegger spoke of the relation between thinking and thanking, the importance of the Hand in Poiesis which is a making, a sculpting... a drawing out of Phusis from stone, from earth - which is what Pagan Idolatry is;

Quote :
""The Greek for ‘to bring forth or to produce’ is tikto. The word techne, technique, belongs to the verb’s root tec. To the Greeks techne means neither art nor handicraft but rather: to make something appear, within what is present, as this or that, in this way or that way. The Greeks conceive of techne producing, in terms of letting appear. Techne thus conceived has been concealed in the tectonics of architecture since ancient times. We think of creation as a bringing forth. But the making of equipment, too, is a bringing forth. Handicraft.

The word techne denotes rather a mode of knowing. To know means to have seen, in the widest sense of seeing, which means to apprehend what is present, as such. For Greek thought the nature of knowing consists in aletheia, that is, in the uncovering of beings. It supports and guides all comportment toward beings. Techne, as knowledge experienced in the Greek manner, is a bringing forth of beings in that it brings forth present beings as such beings out of concealedness and specifically into the unconcealedness of their appearance; techne never signifies the action of making." [Heidegger]


Comapre the prohibition with the Semites:


"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of the parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing stead- fast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."(20:4–6)


"Then God spoke all these words, saying, I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 1] You shall have no other gods before Me.  2] You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
And the rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk: [Revelation 9]

Note: “Jealous” does not mean He is suspicious or distrustful, but that He demands exclusive devotion.

The warnings about idols extend from one end of the Bible to the other..

And I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their ordinances, nor defile yourselves with their idols. [Ezekiel 20]

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve. [Matt 4-11]

“… abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [Acts 15]

And the rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk: [Revelation 9]

The Pauline Epistles contain several admonitions to "flee from idolatry"

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [Romans 1-25]

For this ye know of a surety, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. [Ephesians 5]

Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry; [Colossians 3]

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,  idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you [Galatians 5-21]



An idol is made of one who is worthy of veneration. Who has WORTH-ship...

The word ‘worship’ derives from the Indo-European root wer or uer – ‘to turn’. The starting point of idol meditation is to orient yourself to gaze at it, infusing your breath in it which in Turn comes alive to speak to you...
Ricouer's hermeneutics talks about 'doing away with idols,' namely, becoming critically aware of when we project our own wishes and constructs into things, so that they no longer address us from beyond ourselves as "other.", and we remain in our subjective solipsism. But there is a second kind of idolatry which is what I.E. Paganism was about.. the need to listen in openness to a symbol and thereby to allow creative events to occur "in front of" it, in front of our gaze on it, and to have its effect on us.

Its called Aletheia.

Idol is derived from the Greek eidos, form, and the root weid- in Indo-European, whose derivatives include guide, wise, wisdom, guise, wit, view, visa, vision, advice, clairvoyance, idea, history, story.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed May 28, 2014 8:24 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed May 28, 2014 1:31 pm

Vilhelm Gronbech wrote in his book, The Culture of the Teutons;

“In the high seat, in the grove, and on the mountain, we stand face to face with a power which
seems never before to have forced itself upon us: that of holiness; but in reality, we have traced its
influence at every step. It is luck in its mightiest shape. The connection lies in the name, for heilagr —
holy — and heill — good luck or good fortune — are radically akin. From the point of view of form, the
one is a derivative of the other: heilagr is that in which heill resides; but the formal relation does not show
that the idea of the adjective should be later than that of the substantive. We can get nearest to the spiritual
kinship by viewing both as linguistic expressions of the fundamental idea wherein Germanic culture once
gathered the innermost secret of life in one sum; heill is humanity, and heilagr is human, in the widest
sense of the words.”

Basically, to the Ásatru (or heathen) world-view, the concept of the holy, health, luck, and
wholeness are all one and the same. They are all inexplicitly linked to evoke the power and restoration of
each other. To be holy, one had to be healthy, filled with luck (or megin), and part of an encompassing
wholeness of the concepts together. This is the background to the modern/ancient greeting “Heil/Heilsa”
used by modern heathens today. You are not just saying, “Hi.” or “How are you?” You are saying, “Be
healthy.” or “Be whole.”

The concept of the unholy is directly counterpart to the concept of the holy. The Old Norse word
for unholy was óheilagr and the Old English word was unhálig.
Again, in modern usage, Webster’s New Universal Unabridged Dictionary (1996) gives the
definition of unholy as:

Un·Ho·ly (un hō′lē), —adj. 1. not holy; not sacred or hallowed. 2. impious; sinful; wicked. 3.
Informal dreadful; ungodly: They got us out of bed at the unholy hour of three in the morning. [ bef. 1000;
Old English unhālig (c. D onheilig. Old Norse óheilagr)] —unholiness, n.

We can easily deduce that just as the word holy meant, “with luck”, “health(y)”, or “whole(ness)”
that the opposite being unholy meant, “without luck”, “unhealth(y)”, or “lack of whole(ness)”. So that
which is unholy is unhealthy, sick, without luck (or megin), and not whole or holistic. A major supporter
of this existed within Icelandic law were as a person who was declared an outlaw, then violated the terms
of their outlawry was referred to as being óheilagr. By becoming that last step beyond the harsh outlaw,
you became the opposite to that which Gronbech said in that to be heilagr was to be human. So, to be
óheilagr was to not even be human. They were considered far away from the sacredness of the inner
enclosure of society. They were the true outlanders.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:05 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:32 am

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More for the commentary than anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:00 pm

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How enticing, to live in a world where animals, naturally selected and fit, are tortured and killed to allow human animals, who are protected and sheltered and unfit, to go on living for one more day of their despicable, miserly, sickly, pathetic life.

Enticing in the same way one is tempted by a toilet bowl with shit-stains, a kitchen sink full of pots and pans, or bookshelves full of dust.
No matter how one tries to ignore and forget it, one cannot.
He will have to go and clean that dirt away; he will go and order his chaos.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] a bookshelf full of dust.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] a kitchen full of dirty dishes.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] a toilet bowl full of shit stains.

Short distance between dirty study, kitchen and bathroom.
Is this not your home, or are you a visitor?
Do you not live here?

Clean away....

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:14 pm



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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:11 pm

Walter Burkert wrote:
"If a man is able to draw near to the gods, as the priest Chryses with Apollo or as Hektor or Odysseus with Zeus, he can do so because he has "burnt many thigh-pieces of bulls" (Il. 1.40, 22.170;  Od. 1.66), for this is the act of piety: bloodshed, slaughter - and eating. It makes no difference if there is no temple or cult-statue, as often occurs in the cult of Zeus. The god is present at his place of sacrifice, a place distinguished by the heap of ashes left from "sacred" offerings burnt there over long periods of time, or by the horns and skulls of slaughtered rams and bulls, or by the alter-stone where the blood must be sprinkled. The worshipper experiences the god most powerfully not just in pious conduct or in prayer, song, and dance, but in the deadly blow of the axe, the gush of blood and the burning of thigh-pieces. The realm of the gods is sacred, but the "sacred" act done at the "sacred" place by the "consecrating" actor consists of slaughtering sacrificial animals...
Sacrificial killing is the basic experience of the "sacred". Homo religious acts and attains self-awareness as homo necans. Indeed, this is what it means "to act", operari (whence "sacrifice" is Opfer in German) - the name merely covers up the heart of the action with a euphemism. The bliss of encountering divinity finds expression in words, and yet the strange and extraordinary events that the participant in the sacrifice is forced to witness are all the more intense because they are left undiscussed." [Homo Necans]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:05 pm

Nietzsche, Friedrich wrote:
One is no longer at home anywhere; at last one belongs back to that place in which alone one can be at home, because it is the only place which one would want to be at home: the Greek world!… A few centuries hence, perhaps, one will judge that all German philosophy derives its real dignity from being a gradual reclamation of the soil of antiquity, and that all claims to “originality” must sound petty and ludicrous in relation to that higher claim of the Germans to have joined anew the bond that seemed to be broken, the bond with the Greeks, the hitherto highest type of man.

Let us try to be Greeks then. Not these Modern, Jew-Christian forms of its decline, its disease, but those that lived in the light and knew not of this mental illness.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 am

A Hellene as Liantinis said.

"Do you want to have an accurate portrait of a modern Greek? Take the robe of a vulture and of a
crow. Take the stuffed bellies of the priests, the black frock of Makarios II, from Cyprus. And the
long beards of the monks, which hide the face like thick overgrown and unkempt fences hide the fields
beyond. And the covered up nuns, the other version of the Turkish veil, and you have got a faithful
picture of the modern Greek.
Now next to this dark and foreboding image, bring the image of the ancient, and measure the
difference.
Bring the shapes of the youthful bodies, well-built and proportioned. Ascending from Olympia and
Delphi, accompanied by the clarion sounds of silver cymbals. The beautiful sleeveless tunics,
appealing in their simplicity, and the flowing white garments. Sandals of fine leather, made to fit
strong ankles.
Bring the picture bequeathed to us by the ancient Greek women. Slim-lined with their thin belts, a
blue headband and deer-like grace. The Greek women of Argos and Ionia, slender in their short skirts
and unashamed. Racing on the mountains together with Atalanta. And sleeping in their final resting
places like the Euthydikos Kore.
All of them supported peacefully on some marble pedestal, at the head of a column, at the base of a
white cistern in the Agora. Surrounded by elegantly proportioned temples, bathed in sunlight and
azure skies.
Men, and gods, and statues, all one.
All these, so that you may compare the old and the new Greece, to consider and weigh them. And
put a northern European next to them, so that he may do a fair appraisal. He will have every right to
say: Clean air and daylight is not the same as putrid smells in the dark of night. You cannot mix
hyacinths and weed.
And they will eventually conclude their critique reprehensibly:
- “How presumptuous! How dare they ask us for the Elgin marbles back? Who do they think they
are? Those religious nutters.”
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:16 pm

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Quote :
Quote :
"In that time, without the distractions of modern life, and aside from the ones of the essential, I have had sufficient time to ponder the present state of man. I am convinced it is a species that loves its servitude with every sense of their being. It is rare now to be free of distraction and obligation, more so at this time in history than in any other, yet I have never seen a being so lost and dejected without the weight of their chains to bind them. There is even an air of anger and contempt at their predicament of freedom, cursing the storm that has set them loose, the liberator that is ruin, and the only topic on their minds is the time in which their oppressive order might return. The prospect of another second to themselves is maddening for most. Everyone gossips and ventures guesses, literally in the dark, as if seers and wise-men deciding the fate of all at the crux of times." - Στρατηγός C.C. Conall, from 'Anamnesis' - Of Ruin.

The Order of Würm is dictated by the specific principles of PaleoEuropean spirituality remembered in the modern age and through its members, evolved as if timelessly transformed through our blood in the expression of tens of thousands of years unto now.  This means that a lot of our tenants exist from a state of mind that is staunchly in contrast with the mass humanitarian populistand globalist views which dominate and pervade almost every mentality, forWürmian understandings are both ancient and advanced beyond what exists in the present realm of reality. In this way, Würm is timeless and ever-flowing. In retrospect to our revelations on the concept of Origin, all must understand that the very inception of our people and the first manifestations of their spirit were driven to its unique evolutionary path by the amalgamation of elements and conditions of life in Paleolithic Europe. The list is vast and specific but we may understand it by the catalyst: Ice. This is why there is no more integral or powerful a symbol for Würm than Isa and is the inspiration and sacred symbolism of our very title. Through Ice, the first of our folk to step foot on the frozen steppe of Paleolithic Europe were faced with the highest challenges in the Natural current and were thus driven onto their path in the world. It was in the narrow river valleys and small patches of forest of Europe gripped in the flowing ages of Ice where the PaleoEuropean was driven to the unique way of Blood and Spirit that had never before existed within man in that manner. Pushed by the harsh extremes of a frozen world, it was here in Europe that man became the apex predator for the first time in constant climactic shifts testing both ability and the fluidity to adapt. In a world where the sun shown weak in shortened days and, if far enough North, would disappear entirely for months at a time, the PaleoEuropean was driven to total predation to ensure sustenance. It was with the dawn of the eternal hunt that PaleoEuropeans took the first steps toward not only a physically advanced evolution, but also the first conception of the Spirit. Through the cycles of all things which our first ancestors were a part, living became ritualistic and all things held symbolic power. Knowledge from the past became integral to survival: the elders told the tales of the spirit realm and could communicate with the ancestral spirits that would come to be deified with the natural elements, the blood became the source of all things and the mentality of the noble predator was born in man. In the month long nights of the extreme North for people tracking traveling herds, navigation by the stars began; the first time man looks up to the cosmic waters. It was in the light of the Moon which our mothers and fathers would hunt and stave off the dangers of the glaciated world. The herds migratory habits could be followed by the phases of the moon and thus the first calendars and festive celebrations of the seasons were conceived. In the deep darkness of the caves wrested from the bear by man, the first art is born, but not in the sense that the modern man knows it, but by the power, knowledge, spirit and ritual with which it was created and maintained over tens of thousands of years; revisited and retouched sculptures and paintings in the deepest places generation after generation for the energy the forces of all things gave to the murals and the power they hate on the fate of the future hunts. There was no separation of spirituality, ritual, hunt, knowledge and wisdom,family and folk; all things were interwoven and necessary to one another and it was through Ice that predation under the Moon and starlit skies that our clans became cognizant of their deepest spiritual depths and their highest physical abilities.It is with the Neolithic and beyond; the coming of mass agriculture (which started outside of Europe) the warming of the continent, the easing of conditions and excess of people where the first Sun cults are born, and the first expressions of 'civilization' are realized. With agriculture came surplus, first of food, then of people. Larger populations force spreading ofthe various races and the dilution of not only blood but Spirit and the loss of the power of the environment on the understandings of life. With the destruction of the hunt goes the basis for all our spiritual, esoteric and metaphysical foundations in the world and the end of the rise on the evolutionary ladder; the removal from the forces of the natural world and the disruption of the astral current. With the death of the Hunt and the forgetting of Isa and Máni comes also the slumber of our Origin. Without the consciousness of our Origin, the mind dulls, the Spirit becomes blind, culture declines and becomes perverse, our bodies weaken and shrink, reflexes slow, the Will becomes lazy and the work of ages of evolution and struggle by our people dies. Through civilization, the increase in the human flood brings the decrease in our collective connection to the realms beyond and the gradual forgetting of the esoteric powers of the natural world and the ritual nature of life. What was once an evolutionary and harmonic co-existence becomes a wasteful burden on all things and it is with the advent of mass agriculture over the past 12,000 some years and the coming of 'civilization' that the devolution of the European begins. It is for this purpose which I say now these elucidations about what our Order is and what it is not:


◾The Order of Würm is inimical to and condemns the idea of 'civilization', the sedentary life and urbanization, and any concept of 'imperialism' and 'universalism'! Our Order stands for the revitalization of the exceptional and forming of our clans that transform from the collective Wolven ranks to the Inner Circle of the Draconic Initiated which move forth from this plane in solitary force of Spirit!

◾The Order of Würm is inimical to the cults of the Sun! Our Order holds true to our Blutminne and the PaleoEuropean relationship to the various manifestations of the Lunar force. Our Order Heils the Hunter's Stars and the Wisdom of the Crown of Arianrhod; we navigate the black waters in Elathan's light and in the rank of Orion!

◾The Order of Würm is inimical to those who seek to live in the warm climates! Our Order calls for the physical effects of Isa just as it had on the provenience of our blood! Our Order seeks to be near to the giants of Ice and exposed to the evolutionary powers of the Cold!    


◾The Order of Würm is inimical to agrarian society! Our Order holds to the force of the predatory habits of our gods: the primordial ancestors and the apex predators and elements of our unique environmentally driven understandings of existence. Our Order follows the turning of the wheel in the flow of the astral waters!


◾The Order of Würm is inimical to any mass-movement, any form of universalism, and the very idea of politics in practice or thought in regards to the mass human collective! Our Order recognizes that there is no hope for natural restoration in an unnatural system. Our Order is the paradox of civilization! Our Order only recognizes the exceptional; those that pass the tests of our essence and take the steps beyond! Our Order is not political, our collective only exists in the bloodbonds and brotherhood of shared experience and overcome struggle!


◾The Order of Würm is inimical to the technocracy of the modern world and the enslaving dependence for the sake of profit over advancement in total contradiction to the purpose of technological evolution and the intelligent usage of tools! Our Order is in favor of the responsible use of all the most advanced technologies but as the means of complimentary advancement to physical and spiritual evolved maturity!

Würm does not seek any 'mass-movement' because Würmian principles do not recognize any conglomerations and thus, we do not support any of the virtues of the modern masses; nor does Würm suggest that one can turn back vyrð and live in the past of unchanging reality. Our power comes from the anamnesis of the ancients that rips through time and manifests evolved and everchanging through us. It is one thing to hold to the Spirit and another to be stagnant.Würm does not wish to live as the elders, only to think, feel and evolve as their Spirit dictated.Würm is beyond and it is Elite simply by its very essence. Again, I say, Würm is both ancient and advanced; it is ever evolving yet timeless and eternally itself at its core. Würm does not 'react' because our actions manifest from within ourselves and are not dictated by anything without us. Our virtues dictate that we are no more or less than we are in accordance with the Natural Flow.

Before you now is the Würmian Call in plain words once again:Be as the natural gods and the world that bore you! Remember and be as your forebearers before you! Be as your spirit commands within you!  


Heill to the Eternal Hunt and Heil to our Wolven packs;
Heil to the Elathan Light and Heil to the Draconic Path of Isa!Heil Würm! Στρατηγός Conall
by Appointment of the Grand Maestre and White Horned, commanding the Inner Circle of the Draconic Initiated
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:28 pm

Gaps, clefts, voids, cracks, were sacred to Hades/Pluto; and the sacrifices were offerings to "feed" the gap... a manner of affirming the void, of death.

Walter Burkert, Homo Necans:

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:38 am

Bloodsacrifice of the ancient world.

Culture erupted around graves.

Human history is the eulogy of our ancestors.

Higher love and bloodsacrifice are one.

We can not love without bleeding or cutting.

Cut yourself today with a thorn.


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:14 pm

Paganism, as it is called in our time, or Aryanism or Indo-European culture, is a relationship,a love affair.
And like all love affairs it is about power balances - pulling/pushing...one moment it is full of love and the next hate may erupt.

How man relates to world is agon - love/hate.
Man resist, confronts, separates, from nature, but also accepts, embraces, endures, tolerates.

To man's intuition, the world can be counter-intuitive - to man's, as organism, ordering, world is Flux, producing randomness, to man's morality, caring, world is indifferent, and amoral, to man's subjectivity world is, and is, for man object/objective; to man's need to know, to control, world is unknowable, it is fluctuating, slipping away, falling away.

Paganism is this humble awe before world/nature, but into a capitulation, not a bowing down...as the Greeks believed in their Olympian metaphors of world.

At its root paganism is the loving, honoring of one's past/nature, through his ancestors, and since the individual is the last ring in that chain, he is the present/presence manifestation of this past/nature, paganism is love of self.
not blind, mad, self-flattering, love.
Not delusional erotic love, but lucid, rational, aware, love = agape.

Eros accentuates agape, as it does between a man and a woman, but it does not replace, or usurp agape, because this would make it a frenzy, an instinctual, and shallow.

Paganism began by believing not in ghosts and spirits, but in one's own dead.
The proto-pagans worshiped their dead, their ancestors, and they prayed to them for guidance, and help - and so essentially they were looking for guidance and help from inside of themselves - taping into their inheritance as it was present in them as genetic code.
Later they universalized their ancestors, and made them into metaphors for natural forces - calling them gods.

Not absolute, infallible, omniscient, omnipotent, one god, but forces.
Before them man was not a slave, not a submissive nothing, but both benefactor and challenger.
Man fought with and against the gods.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:44 pm

Question, have you ever found the Vril.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:07 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Gaps, clefts, voids, cracks, were sacred to Hades/Pluto; and the sacrifices were offerings to "feed" the gap... a manner of affirming the void, of death.


Black Panther wrote:
Bloodsacrifice of the ancient world.

Culture erupted around graves.

Human history is the eulogy of our ancestors.

Higher love and bloodsacrifice are one.

We can not love without bleeding or cutting.

Cut yourself today with a thorn.



Nietzsche wrote:
"A crisis that purifies." [WTP]


Crisis:

Quote :
"early 15c., from Latinized form of Greek krisis "turning point in a disease" (used as such by Hippocrates and Galen), literally "judgment, result of a trial, selection," from krinein "to separate, decide, judge," from PIE root *krei- "to sieve, discriminate, distinguish" (cognates: Greek krinesthai "to explain;" Old English hriddel "sieve;" Latin cribrum "sieve," crimen "judgment, crime," cernere (past participle cretus) "to sift, separate;" Old Irish criathar, Old Welsh cruitr "sieve;" Middle Irish crich "border, boundary"). Transferred non-medical sense is 1620s in English. A German term for "mid-life crisis" is Torschlusspanik, literally "shut-door-panic," fear of being on the wrong side of a closing gate."


Riddle:

Quote :
"coarse sieve," mid-14c., alteration of late Old English hriddel, dissimilated from hridder, from Proto-Germanic *hrida- (cognates: German Reiter), from PIE root *krei- "to sieve," and thus related to Latin cribrum "sieve, riddle," Greek krinein "to separate, distinguish, decide".


Ritual/Rite:

Quote :
early 14c., from Latin ritus "religious observance or ceremony, custom, usage," perhaps from PIE root *re(i)- "to count, number" (cognates: Greek arithmos "number," Old English rim "number"; ). Rite of passage (1909) is translated from French rite de passage, coined by French anthropologist Arnold van Gennep (1873-1957).



Dionysos:
A crisis cleaves, and is also a gap.
Time is out of joint, and Cronos comes with a golden sickle.
Hades is also dionysos.
Crises claw and tear at you like maenads in panther-skins and eternal circles, and away in the sudden graceful leap or paralyzed with inertia, life and death is deterred-or-mined at the edge, all tooth and nail.
Round and round, it becomes a riddle...

"As he paces in cramped circles, over and over,
the movement of his powerful soft strides
is like a ritual dance around a center
in which a mighty will stands paralyzed." [R.M.Rilke, The Panther (1902)]


Chiron:
The crisis confronts us as a Riddle of hybrid or disjointed discontinuities.
Forms of riddling play throwing polarities against one another, bright/dark, hot/cold, life/death, and crafting rich lines... one way of holding them all together, the heavy gold, which drinks up a lot of energy... pain like vulture pecking forming scar-tissue.
A riddle is a sado-masochism, that can either collapse under its own weight [self-sabotage], or give into a breath-through [see you on the other side, immortality].

Apollo:
Ritual is Rhythm, Number that stabilizes by offering a sacrifice of correspondences [as above, so above].
(My mind to the moon, my eyes to the sun, etc.)
It tries to close the gap, without negating... but soon, a crisis sets in...
The ER purifies.


Chiron is birthed by Cronos in the form of horse, a night-mare, a crisis. The Plutonic healing is cathartic.
The opening of gaps - forgetfulness - is a precursor to health. Dissolution of old, weak forms shedding away to a becoming, a growth.
Chiron's hybridity is a formal riddle. Burkert [Homo Necans] cites the ancient I.E. rite of horse-sacrifice [including the story of the Trojan horse] which involved incubating the horse's head as healing the entropic time.
Horse as the symbol of time, the sun rising and setting as Apollo drives it as his chariot across the sky is an old metaphor. A glance into the absurdity of the world can be won only with an absurdity, a play, a riddle... and a peek of truth is caught in the lightness of playing although the riddle itself may be serious and deadly.
The solving of the riddle joins the fragments and fragmentations.
The Kenaz rune ' < '  is like an inward thorn or arrow upon oneself, like Chiron shot with a poisoned arrow.
The rune of knowledge is also the rune of wounds, rot, putrescence, burns, inflame-ation, scorching blisters, volcanic light, sacred fire of sexual generation (kennen: to know, to beget)...
Apollo the scorcherer and the sender of plague is also the enlightener and light of any hierosgamos, marriage of two things that is number, proportion, healing music, a re-membrance over the gap of forgetfulness.


ER is the crisis,
Overman is yet the riddle (the bridge of man and star, plant and animal),

and where the Hercules who plucks the golden apples, the Golden law, the seven seals of marriage to eternity?


Present problem:

Crisis is still stuck at meaning;

Air: Financial crisis [Money/code as the absent god],

Water: Midlife crisis [Xt. Love as the absent god],

Fire: Energy crisis [Mephisto as the absent god],

Earth: Identity crisis [Pleasure as the absent god]

Space: Mortality crisis [soulless Machines as the absent god]


In short: Hedonistic An-Nihilism.
An-nihil-ation of the zeal for grand purposes.

Mishima said, our concept of pain is intimately tied with our concept of beauty and beauty is only experienced in violence, in profound anguish (although one doesnt know its profound till after the storm's passed and what state it has left one in...)


Sheltering protects the average mind from being hit hard; nothing affects him but his immediate gratifications.
It remains *just* a financial crisis.
It remains *just* an energy crisis.
The link of one to the other and other and other... doesn't surface up as a whole ecological crisis.


Natural selection when the curtains of the artificial environments are opened and exposed:

How far can you expose it?

How far back, deep and wide a gap, a crisis can you break open?

In the Beginning was the Word, the Language?
In the End is the Laughter?
And Love, the gap, and the rope over the gap in between?, for we have loved too poorly...

The point in going around in circles and leaping back and forth in rephrasing same conditions and wrestling the same age-old problems with poems and prose and questions in diff. ways, like sisyphus, as absurd as it is... the 'churning of the milky ocean' makes the cream separate to the edges of the whirlpool of time...

The mythological swan sacred to Apollo was said to separate the milk from the water.

The panther dancing amidst the swan-song is a good re-creation...

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:06 pm

Quote :
Chiron is birthed by Cronos in the form of horse, a night-mare, a crisis. The Plutonic healing is cathartic.
The opening of gaps - forgetfulness - is a precursor to health. Dissolution of old, weak forms shedding away to a becoming, a growth.
Chiron's hybridity is a formal riddle. Burkert [Homo Necans] cites the ancient I.E. rite of horse-sacrifice [including the story of the Trojan horse] which involved incubating the horse's head as healing the entropic time.
Horse as the symbol of time, the sun rising and setting as Apollo drives it as his chariot across the sky is an old metaphor.

Horse, Ehwaz, ("equus"?); the long distance, which can only be crossed when man and beast are in Harmony. Apollo's chariot: consciousness as a extended time, time as conception.

Quote :
A glance into the absurdity of the world can be won only with an absurdity, a play, a riddle... and a peek of truth is caught in the lightness of playing although the riddle itself may be serious and deadly.
The solving of the riddle joins the fragments and fragmentations.
The Kenaz rune ' < '  is like an inward thorn or arrow upon oneself, like Chiron shot with a poisoned arrow.
The rune of knowledge is also the rune of wounds, rot, putrescence, burns, inflame-ation, scorching blisters, volcanic light, sacred fire of sexual generation (kennen: to know, to beget)...

And what causes Kenaz but the thorn, the first blood-drawing edge of the Futhark:

Quote :
Apollo the scorcherer and the sender of plague is also the enlightener and light of any hierosgamos, marriage of two things that is number, proportion, healing music, a re-membrance over the gap of forgetfulness.

The aspect of scorcher and enlightener together in the lightning: Thor, Thunder, Thurisaz.

Next level pain = Hagal:

Quote :
Hagalaz – “Hag-all-az” – Literally: “Hail” or “Hailstone” – Esoteric: Crisis or Radical Change

A storm of thorns, moving into Nauthiz - Need/Necessity Moving into... Isa, ice, isolation, I, Individuation.
Then only then: Jera - year, cycle, recurrence - the recurrence is a circle around the I.

Now the Futhark crosses into the next half by giving Eihwaz, the inversed Sun principle, the Zodiac, the world turned inward, the black sun. The next following rune is better not mentioned.[/quote]
[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:42 am

Rider on the Storm wrote:
Quote :
Horse as the symbol of time, the sun rising and setting as Apollo drives it as his chariot across the sky is an old metaphor.

Horse, Ehwaz, ("equus"?); the long distance, which can only be crossed when man and beast are in Harmony. Apollo's chariot: consciousness as a extended time, time as conception.


Can't move without filling that gap first between horse and time and victory.

The first seven parts are from Parpola's really excellent paper [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] across the whole I.E. migration.
He shows how the later religious Axial metaphysics comes to be informed via this core significance of the horse in cultural history. I'll show that in the remaining parts.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:43 am

Part I


Parpola wrote:
The Horse-Twins and the Chariot

In "classical" Vedic religion, the Na ̄satyas or As ́vins are deities of secondary importance, mainly associated with healing. Their cult had largely been absorbed into the cult of Indra and his sacred drink Soma. That these horse-related gods were formerly more important deities is suggested by the prominence of the horse and chariot in such “pre-classical” rites as the as ́vamedha and va ̄japeya.

In the R ̊gveda, the Na ̄satyas are worshipped especially by the Ka ̄n.va and Atri poets resident in Gandha ̄ra,the Ka ̄n.vas associated with the earlier immigration wave of Indo-Aryan speakers.  

Archaeology and Proto-Aryan loan words in Finno-Ugrian languages spoken in north- eastern Europe have enabled locating the emergence of the Aryan branch of the Indo- European language family in southeastern Europe (the Poltavka, Abashevo and Sintashta- Arkaim cultures). Its diffusion can be followed in the Eurasiatic steppes and through Central Asia (Bactria and Margiana Archaeological Complex) to Syria (Mitanni king- dom) and to South Asia (Gandha ̄ra Graves).

The horse-drawn chariot was centrally involved in this emergence and diffusion of Proto-Aryan speakers. The two-man team of warrior and charioteer was deified, and the mythology of these divine twins spread together with the chariot from the Proto-Aryans to Proto-Greeks and Proto-Balts. Loanwords in Finno-Ugrian languages, too, suggest that the Na ̄satyas were important divinities for Proto-Aryan speakers.

The chariot was a prestigious and effective new instrument of war and sport, which was quickly adopted by the elites of neighbouring peoples. Together with the chariot, the mythology and cult of the deified chariot team also spread. Placing the origin in the steppes of southeastern Europe best explains the distribution of the early chariot lore among the Aryans, Greeks and Balts.

Earlier the Na ̄satyas, like the Dioskouroi in Sparta, were models of dual kingship. The twins represented dualistic cosmic forces, day and night, birth and death. As márya, they were warring youths and wooing bridegrooms, and thus also functioned as gods of fertility and birth.

In the Rgveda, the As ́vins are called several times ‘sons of heaven’, divó nápa ̄ta ̄ or ̊  dívo napa ̄ta ̄. It relates them historically to the horse-riding divine twins of early Greece who are called the Dioskouroi, ‘youths of Zeus’ (i.e. sons of the Sky God), and to the horse-riding ‘sons of the God’ (Latvian Dieva de ̄li, Lithuanian Dievo su ̄neliai) in the pre- Christian religion of the Balts. Moreover, all these three sets of equestrian twins have a sister or wife or bride associated with the dawn or called the daughter of the sun (Us. as or Su ̄rya ̄ in India, Heléne ̄ ‘torch’ in Greece, and in the Baltics, Latvian saules meita ‘maiden or daughter of the sun’ and Lithuanian saules dukryte ‘daughter of the sun’).

The Iliad’s horsemanship and chariot warfare is therefore that of late Mycenaean Greece as imagined by the poets of five centuries later... riding as well as chariot-driving took place in the Olympic Games from 648 BC... By the seventh century cavalry was becoming a component in Greek armies and soon riding was accepted as part of the necessary education of a young gentleman...”

The As ́vins and the Dioskouroi are twins. Their dual number seems to be largely due to theirbeingthedivinizedchariotteam. The chariot team normally consisted of women, the chariot warrior, who concentrated on fighting or hunting, and the charioteer, who drove the horses and took care of them and assisted in other ways as well: “the driving of the chariot with its trained and mettlesome pair of horses demanded a skilled charioteer, whether for solemn parade and festive or ritual display, or for the more risky exploits of hunting or war. Here the close team-work necessary between high-ranking warrior and passenger meant that the two were often of equal social status...”

The existence of a two-man team associated with the chariot46 in the Sintashta-Arkaim culture of the southern Urals (c. 2200-1800 BCE) is suggested by a burial at Sintashta.

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Here the warrior was buried together with his weapons and his car at the bottom of the grave, while another man was buried together with a pair of horses and a burning fireplace in an upper chamber.

In the Vedic religion, the charioteer and the chariot fighter are expressly equated with the As ́vins. Of the Greek Dioskouroi, too, one was a fighter and the other took care of horses:
according to their standing Homeric attributes (e.g., Iliad 3,237), Poludeukes was good at fistfighting (pùks agathós), while Kastor was good at taming horses (hippódamos).

The Rgveda, too, differentiates between the two As ́vins: “one of you is respected as the ̊ victorious lord of Sumakha, and the other as the fortunate son of heaven”. This passage suggests that divó nápa ̄ta ̄ is an elliptic dual, based on the name of just one member of the pair,50 just like na ́ ̄satya ̄, derived as it seems to be from the charioteer member of the team. Na ́ ̄satya- is a derivative of *nasatí- ‘safe return home’ and belongs to the same Proto-Indo-European root *nes- as the Greek agent noun Nésto ̄r — known from Homer as a hippóta and a masterly charioteer — and refers to the charioteer’s task of bringing the hero safely back from the battle. In the Rgvedic verse just quoted the “victorious ̊ lord of Sumakha” appears to be the chariot-warrior. The meaning of the words sú-makha- and makhá-, -makhas- is debated, but this context suits the old etymology that connects them with Greek mákhe ̄ ‘battle, combat’ and makhésasthai ‘to fight’.

According to the Ka ̄n.va hymn R ̊gveda 8,35, verse 13, the two As ́vins are mitra ́ ̄várun.a- vanta ̄ utá dhármavanta ̄, ‘accompanied by Mitra and Varun.a as well as by Dharma’. The primary meaning of mitrá- (n.) is ‘contractual alliance, pact of friendship’ and of várun. a- probably ‘oath, true speech’. Thus these personified social concepts — important for illiterate tribal societies—were associated with the As ́vins.

The sun is further said to show the colours of Mitra and Varun. a in the lap of heaven: his one appearance is infinitely white, the other one is black. Here the sun is conceived of as one divinity having two forms, the white day sun and the black night sun, and these two forms are connected with Mitra and Varun.a.

According to the ̊Rgveda (6,9,1ab) “the white day and the black day” — (the pair ̊  f) light and darkness — manifestly turn around.” The colour terms here used of day and night, árjuna- ‘white’ and krs. n. á- ‘black’, are connected with the two members ̊ of the chariot team in the Maha ̄bha ̄rata.  Originally Kr ̊s. n. a’s teammate was undoubtedly his elder brother, the strong Balara ̄ma, who is white in colour. The early vais.n.ava trio of Balara ̄ma (called just Ra ̄ma in the Maha ̄bha ̄rata), K ̊rs.n.a, and their sister whom the elder brother marries — duplicated by the trio of Ra ̄ma, Laks.man.a and S ̄ıta ̄ — actually seems to go back to the trio of the two As ́vins and their sister-wife. If the white day and the black night are the two As ́vins, their association with the red dawn as their sister-wife is most natural: the three are mentioned together for example in R ̊gveda 7,80,1, where the Vasis.t.has praise Us.as as one who turns around the darkness and the light, the two contiguous ones.
In Rgveda 10,39,12, the As ́vins are asked to come with their chariot manufactured by the Rbhus, which is quicker than the mind and at the yoking of which is born the daughter of the sky (i.e. the dawn) and Vivasvant’s two beautiful days (i.e. the white day and the black day = night).

In the Atharvaveda (13,3,13), Mitra and Varun. a are connected with the two forms that the fire god Agni has during the day and night: “This Agni becomes Varun. a in the evening; inthemorning,rising,hebecomesMitra.” In Rgveda 10,88,6, “Agni is the head of the earth in the night, of him is the rising sun born in the morning.” Both Mitra and Varun. a and the two As ́vins are equated with day and night in the Bra ̄hman.a texts. Agni is the divine priest, the purohita of the gods. As Agni conveys the offerings to the gods,he is “the charioteer of the rites”. ‘Fire’ is therefore called váhni- ‘driver, charioteer’, from the root vah- ‘to drive in a chariot, convey by carriage’.
In the Veda, Apa ̄m. Napa ̄t is another name of the fire god Agni and is conceived of as a horse-shaped sun-fire in the waters.

The horse (ás ́va-) is often said to belong to Varun. a. His connection with the charioteer is apparent from an episode in the royal consecration: when the king goes to the house of the su ̄tá-, the herald, he offers to Varun.a and gives a horse as a sacrificial gift. In the Indian epics, the charioteer gives the hero advice and encourages him in battle by singing of the feats of his ancestors; hence su ̄tá- means both ‘charioteer’ and ‘bard’.

Originally, the chariot warrior as the ‘mundane’ king was the ‘elder brother’ and more important than his charioteer and priestly adviser, the ‘younger brother’. However, over the course of time, the situation was reversed. The chariot warrior, who goes to war, is the king in his youthful aspect — he is the yuvara ̄ja- — and the samra ́ ̄j- stands for the senior king, the yuvara ̄ja’s ruling father who stays at home. These two diametrically opposite aspects or phases of kingship — warrior and ruler — are symbolized by the rising young sun, worshipped in the morning in a standing posture, and the setting old sun, worshipped in the evening in a seated posture. Thus, in the royal consecration, the youthful crown prince (pratihita-) is given a bow and arrows as his patrimony by his father the king, and he there after drives off in a chariot to capture a hundred cows.

Mitra represented kingship and Varun.a priesthood. In the Atharvaveda, Varun.a is a master of magic, which was the domain of the royal purohita.

In the Veda, night, darkness and Varun.a are all connected with death. That the two As ́vins were connected not only with day and night but also with life and death as early as Proto-Aryan times is suggested by the Greek evidence. According to Homer, the Dioskouroi “have this honour from Zeus, albeit in the nether world, they pass from death to life and life to death on alternate days, and enjoy equal honours with the Gods”. Corresponding to the idea that one of the Dioskouroi is immortal, belonging to the celestials, and the other mortal and belonging to the deceased, sometimes one is depicted with a white horse and the other with a black horse. In Greece and India, the equestrian twins were conceived of as saviours, and that this is due to common heritage is shown by the fact that, in both countries, they were also invoked by people in peril at sea, even though the Vedic people no longer had direct contact with the sea. That, as saviours, the As ́vins were often funerary divinities ef- fecting the regeneration of the dead can be seen from the help they rendered to Vandana.
Vandana had become decrepit with old age; his regeneration out of the ground (also: womb) is compared to the skilful repair of an old chariot that threatens to fall into pieces. Vandana had been buried and was like one who sleeps in the lap of the goddess of destruction (i.e., a dead person); he rested like the sun in darkness; the As ́vins dug him up like a buried ornament of gold, beautiful to look at.185 In another hymn, too, the dug-up Van- dana is compared to a dug-up hidden treasure.186 The As ́vins lifted Vandana up so that he could see the sun, i.e., live. The As ́vins dug Vandana up from a pit,188 i.e., grave.
In other words, as “healers” and “saviours”, the As ́vins were largely psychopomps and revivers of the dead. The rejuve- nation accomplished by the As ́vins is several times compared to the renovation of an old chariot.

In the Sintashta-Arkaim culture of the southern Urals, deceased aristocrats were buried with their horses and chariots. The chariot was thus intimately involved with burial rites, and was probably assumed to take the dead hero to the other world. In the 23rd song of the Iliad, Homer, when describing the funeral of Patroclus, reports (verses 171-2) that four horses were cast upon his pyre. The chariot, too, was involved in the funeral, but in a different way. In the athletic contests in honour of the dead hero, his belongings were divided as victory prizes, and the most important of these contests was the chariot race described at length in this song. Willem Caland191 has drawn attention to the fact that a comparable horse race, per- formed by riders on the day of the burial, belonged to the pre-Christian traditions of the Baltic people as well. The prize consisted either of money placed on the top of the goal post, or of property of the deceased, divided and placed at certain intervals along the route. The burial day ended in a drinking bout.

Marcus Sparreboom, in his doctoral dissertation on Chariots in the Veda, actually maintained that “a connection with funeral ceremonies cannot be demonstrated for Indian racing practice”. He did, however, find some indirect evidence: according to the Baudha ̄yana S ́rautasu ̄tra (11,6-8 ), a left turn is made at the turning post in the chariot race of the va ̄japeya rite, just as in the Greek funeral race, although “in the Vedic ritual, left turns were generally considered inauspicious or associated with funerary ceremonies”.

I believe that a reference to a funeral chariot race has survived in a hymn to the As ́vins,

Rgveda 1,116: “O you two who had triumphed with (your) strong-winged (horses) urged to a fast course or through the incitements of the gods, (your) ass won a thousand (cows) in Yama’s prize-contest, O Na ̄satyas”. No scholar seems to have interpreted the phrase “Yama’s prize-contest” (a ̄ja ́ ̄ yamásya pradháne) as referring to a funeral chariot race, though Yama is the god of death and the Yama hymns of Book X were used in funeral rites. The number one thousand is connected with the sun, which is said to have a thousand rays — often understood as cattle.

The marriage context is also very relevant here, for the conclusion of funeral rituals aiming at rejuvenation and the attainment of heaven coincides with the beginning ofnewlifeintheimpregnationwhichtakesplaceatawedding.214 Regenerationimplies re-entering the womb: “A son is a light in the highest heaven. The husband enters the wife; having become a germ (he enters) the mother; having become renewed in her, he is born in the tenth month. In RV 10,184,2-3, the As ́vins are asked to place an embryo in the wife by means of a golden fire drill, so that he may be born in the tenth month. The embryo is equated with the fire — the embryo of the waters hidden in the as ́vattha wood. The fire-drill consists of a female plank of s ́am ̄ı wood and of a male stick of as ́vattha wood — and as ́vatthá- is folk-etymologically explained to have got its name because the fire stood
(-tthá- < -sthá-) in it one year in the shape of the horse (ás ́va-).

The As ́vins are deities of both death and (re)birth, saving people by helping them make the dangerous, liminal passage. They appear in the morning and evening, at the junctures between night and day, or death and life: Janus-like, their white-and-black appearance unites these opposites.218 In this, they are like the Dioskouroi, of whom one is immortal and the other mortal, and who visit both the heavenly abode of the gods and the nether world in turn. I agree with Thomas Oberlies (1993) that they are very much “gods of the middle position, or space in between”.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:44 am

Part II


Parpola wrote:
""The mountain" as the turning post and the axis mundi

The Jaimin ̄ıya-Bra ̄hman.a contains another case where the gods did not agree among themselves and decided on the matter by means of a chariot race. This concerns the appropriation of the a ̄jya lauds: “They said: ‘Let us compete in a chariot-race for them and make the mountain the turning-post.’ ... because they made the mountain the turning-post, therefore that (mythical) mountain is called a stick (ka ̄s.t.ha).” Bodewitz comments: “According to Caland, Auswahl, 22, n. 6 the mountain probably is the sun. In my opinion giri without further qualifications denotes the primordial hill, the cosmic mountain, the axis mundi, later mostly identified with Meru. Because this cosmic mountain was used as the turning-post (ka ̄s.t.ha ̄) in the chariot-race of the gods, therefore it is also called the stick (ka ̄s.t.ha ̄ [sic for ka ̄s.t.ha]220 ). This seems to refer to the fact that this cosmic hill was also regarded as the worldtree and used as the stick in the churning of the ocean. Nirukta 2,15 probably equates a ̄ditya and ka ̄s.t.ha ̄ on account of the identity of sun and axis mundi.

According to the Aitareya-Bra ̄hman.a (3,44,4), “The (sun) never really sets or rises. In that they think of him ‘He is setting’, verily having reached the end of the day, he inverts himself; thus he makes evening below, day above. Again in that they think of him ‘He is rising in the morning’, verily having reached the end of the night he inverts himself; thus he makes day below, night above.” The sun (or the single wheel of the sun’s chariot) is understood to have a bright side and a dark side; it turns its bright side downwards (towards the earth) in the morning in the east; it turns this bright side upwards (towards the sky) in the evening in the west. This conception can be traced back to the Rgveda: particularly clear is the earlier cited verse RV 1,115,5, which speaks of the bright and dark sides of the sun as visible forms of Mitra and Varun.a.

The As ́vins complete their circuit (vartís-) around the world in one day, just like the sun. This is enacted in the Vedic ritual by the adhvaryu and pratiprastha ̄tar priests, who impersonate the two As ́vins: they go around the sacrificial stake, covering with their hands the sukra- and manthin- cups of Soma, which are explained to represent the sun and the moon: “thereby they make them invisible; whence no one sees yonder sun and moon when they go forward (eastwards). Having gone round to the front (of the stake), they uncover (the cups), and offer them while standing in front: thereby they make them visible; whence every one sees yonder sun and moon when they go backwards [westwards]”

The pre-Christian epic songs of Finnish folk poetry, epitomized in Lönnrot’s Kalevala, have the Sampo as one of their central themes. This magic mill grinding out all kinds of riches was created by a heroic smith, Ilmarinen, the maker of the sky and its luminaries...

The magic mill Sampo shares with the vault of heaven the standing epithet kirjokansi ‘having a decorated lid’. The most widely supported interpretation sees in the Sampo a world pillar that rose from the northern mountain to the pole star, having the rotating starry heavens as its cover. The two hero brothers have been compared with the Dioskouroi (who rescue their sister Helen) and the As ́vins: they woo and rescue the solar maiden lockedinthenorthernmountain. Heinrich Lüders saw a striking parallellism between Väinämöinen’s opening the mountain of the north with a magic song and thus releasing the heavenly luminaries, on the one hand, and the opening of the cave of Vala and the release of the light and the cows by Brhaspati or An ̇giras using the sacred song or expression of truth (rta-).

Sampo originally denoted the world pillar: a related word, meaning ‘pillar, pole, boundary stone, world pillar’, is Finnic *sampas (Finnish sammas, sampas, Estonian sammas, sambas). Its derivation from Proto-Aryan *stambha-s ‘prop, post, (cos- mic) pillar’, first suggested in 1930, is now widely accepted.

The Sampo was understood to be a a magic mill grinding out any grain and other material wealth for its owner. Martti Haavio has compared the Sampo to the Indian epic and pura ̄n.ic myth of the churning of the milk ocean, in which the cosmic mountain was used as the churning stick and all sorts of treasures were produced. I have already quoted Henk Bodewitz to the effect that the turning post (ka ̄s..tha ̄-) of the divine chariot race represents the cosmic mountain as the churning stick (ka ̄s..tha-) of the cosmic ocean.

The chief product from the churning of the milk ocean was the nectar of immor- tality. The Vedic domestic ritual describes a ceremony of receiving honoured guests, called arghá-. That this ceremony goes back to Proto-Aryan times is suggested by the Finnish compound arvovieras ‘honoured guest’, with Proto-Finno-Ugrian *arva ‘price, value’ from Proto-Aryan *argha ‘price, value’. The guest was offered a drink which consisted of sour milk (dádhi-) and honey (and ghee); its name madhuparká- or madhu- mantha- suggests it was churned.

This drink can be connected with the horse and the As ́vins. A famous horse of the Rgvedic period is Dadhikra ̄van: its name contains the word dádhi- ‘sour milk’. The same word is found in the name of Sage Dadhyañc, whom the As ́vins decapitated and revived with a horse’s head, so that he would be able to teach them the secret of “honey- knowledge”, madhu-vidya ̄. This secret amounted to reviving the dead, and probably involved a drink of immortality containing honey and sour milk. In the Finnish folk epic, the mother of a dead hero asks the bee to fetch honey from the highest heaven so that she can revive her son. A unique grave in the mid-Volga region near Samara contained a human skeleton, which had the skull of a horse instead of a man. This archaeological find from the Sintashta-Arkaim horizon — probably representing the Proto-Aryan culture — parallels the Vedic myth of Sage Dadhyañc."

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:45 am

Part III

Parpola wrote:
"Honey, beer and the horse twins

The mid-Volga region has been famous for its honey-forests. Honey-beer was the only kind of alcoholic drink in Russia until the days of Peter the Great, and beeswax one of its principal trade products.

“Of all the [Vedic] gods the As ́vins are most closely connected with honey (madhu), with which they are mentioned in many passages. They have [in their chariot] a skin[- bag] filled with honey... They only are said to be fond of honey (madhu ̄yu, ma ̄dhv ̄ı) or drinkers of it (madhupa ̄)... They give honey to the bee (1,112,21 cp. 10,40,6) and are compared with bees (10,106,10)...”. After the chariot race of the va ̄japeya rite, the brahman priest who represents Brhaspati, the divine purohita and charioteer, receives a golden vessel full of honey. All va ̄japeya charioteers receive an abundance of alcoholic sura ̄, a drink also associated with the As ́vins. “Drinking this, they sit down enjoying themselves and being exalted”, says Baudha ̄yana.

Finnish peijas from Proto-Finno-Ugrian *paiyas denotes a ‘ritual drinking bout in con- nection with marriage, funerals, and bear-killing’. It goes back to Proto-Aryan *paiya-s, which has become péya- (m.) ‘ritual drink offering’ in Vedic. Twelve péya- offerings are to be performed during the year preceding the va ̄ja peya sacrifice. Asaneuternoun, peya- denotes a drink, e.g., madhupéya-, a honey drink of which the As ́vins partake.

The main prize of the va ̄japeya is va ́ ̄ja-, vigour or power generating new life and food. Va ́ ̄ja- comes from the Old Indo-Aryan root *vaj- ‘to be powerful’, which is attested only in nominal and verbal derivatives, from Proto-Indo-European *weg’- ‘to be(come) powerful’.

The va ́ ̄ja- as the prize and goal of the va ̄japeya is represented by the top-piece of the sacrificial stake, called cas.a ́ ̄la- and made of wheat. After the chariot race of the va ̄japeya, a ladder is erected against the sacrificial post, and the sacrificer ascends it. Having reached the top, he touches the top-piece made of wheat, saying “We have reached the sun, O gods!” “And as to why he touches the wheat: wheat is food, and he who offers the Va ̄japeya, wins food.

The va ̄japeya texts emphasize the va ̄ja’s identification with food, and all growth and vegetation on the earth depends upon the sun.

The va ̄japeya is to be performed in the autumn. The combination of the sun and food as the prize or goal of the va ̄japeya has led to the suggestion that the race was originally part of the new year celebrations at winter solstice. Its purpose would have been to infuse the nature with new generative power.

The Finns have celebrated kekri in late autumn at the end of the agricultural year with feasting, games and prognostications about the new year. Kekri, from earlier *kekräj, is a derivative from Proto-Finno-Ugric *kekrä, ‘wheel, circle, cycle’, borrowed from early Proto-Aryan *kekro- (from Proto-Indo-European kwekwlo-), a protoform of Sanskrit cakrá-.
In Saami, *kekrä developed into geavri meaning ‘a circular thing’."

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:47 am

Part IV


Parpola wrote:
"Finnic *kärsä ‘pig’s snout’

In the va ̄japeya, the top-piece of the sacrificial pillar is called cas.a ́ ̄la-. This word is attested twice in the Rgveda, both times in connection with the sacrificial pillar. The original meaning is thought to be the disk-like front part of a boar’s snout. This meaning is certain in Maitra ̄yan. ̄ı Sam. hita ̄ 1,6,3, where it is said that “this earth was in the beginning as large as the snout of a boar” . With the meaning ‘pig’s snout’ the word can be explained as a dissimilatory development of earlier *cars.a ́ ̄la-, a derivative (with the suffix -a ̄la-) of the root cars.- / kars.- ‘to drag, to draw furrows’, cf. Avestan karša- m. n. ‘fur- row’. Indo-Aryan cars. - goes back to Proto-Aryan *carš- < early Proto-Aryan *cerš- < *kerš- from Proto-Indo-European *kwels- ‘to draw furrows’ (cf. Hittite gul-ša-an-zi ‘they incise’; Greek télson n. ‘the last furrow of a field’).
The pig’s habit to scratch the earth is often compared to ploughing.

The boar seems to have been appreciated in the Bactria and Margiana Archaeological Complex, which during its peak phase has produced among other things a magnificent ceremonial mace head depicting the boar —, in the Avesta the god of victory, V r Traγna, runs in the shape of a boar (vara ̄za) in front of MiTra and cuts down men false to the contract (miTro ̄.druˇjaιm mašya ̄naιm).
The Indian tradition has preserved an indication of how the god of victory in the shape of a boar goes in front of MiTra — the original chariot-warrior.
On analogy with the sacrificial pole, this means that the top-piece cas.a ̄la is fixed to the tip of the pole at the very front of the chariot. Thus the boar symbolized by his snout always goes in front of the chariot-warrior.

Besides *kekrä ‘wheel’ and *kärsä ‘pig’s snout’ as the copper front-plate of the chariot pole, there are other early Finno-Ugrian loanwords from Proto-Aryan that can be asso- ciated with the chariot and thereby with the cult of the Na ̄satyas. One is Proto-Finno- Ugrian *res ́mä ‘rope’ from early Proto-Aryan *rec ́mi- ‘string, rope, cord’.293 Old Indo- Aryan ras ́mi- denotes ‘rays of the sun’ and ‘reins’ connected with the charioteer and the As ́vins.

The va ̄japeya sacrifice culminates in a chariot race. The sacrificer touches the two wheels and ascends the chariot with the formula,

“At the impulse of God Savitr, may I ̊ win va ̄ja through the va ̄ja-winning Brhaspati”.

At the same time, the brahman priest puts his  arms on the wheel and ascends it. This chariot wheel had been placed horizontally on the top of a post consisting of a chariot axle and fixed in the ground at the starting point of the race, on the border of the sacrificial area. The brahman priest recites the formula,

“At the impulse of God Savitr, may I ascend the highest vault through the va ̄ja-winning  Brhaspati”.

When the race starts at noon, the brahman priest sings the va ̄jina ̄m. sa ̄man ̊ and either he himself or some assistant turns the chariot wheel on which he is sitting three times sunwise.

Here the formula equates the rotating chariot wheel on the top of a chariot axle ex- pressly with the highest heaven, to which the brahman symbolically ascends. We obtain a model corresponding to the conception behind the magic mill of the Finnic poems, the cosmic pillar supporting the rotating, star-decorated vault of heaven, Finnish sampo from Proto-Aryan *stambha-.

The Vedic concept of “world pillar” or “axis mundi” is associated with the verb sta(m)bh- and its variant ska(m)bh-. In the long Skambha hymns of the Atharvaveda (10,7-8 ), the cosmic pillar, which props heaven and earth apart from each other, is praised as the ulti- mate principle behind everything and identified with the bráhman. The noun stambha- is also used of the axle of the chariot.

In the Jaimin ̄ıya-Upanis.ad-Bra ̄hman.a, the atmosphere separating heaven and earth is compared to the axle keeping the two wheels apart. According to the Rgveda, Indra “has with his might separated from each other heaven and earth, like the wheels are separated by the axle”. The association with the chariot, however, suggests that

this feat originally belonged to the As ́vins, to whom Vasis.t.ha prays in the R ̊gveda thus:

“May your golden chariot, forcing apart the two worlds (heaven and earth), come here with virile horses!”  If the axle of the As ́vins’ chariot is the world pillar keeping heaven and earth apart, the As ́vins should be driving around so that the wheels of their chariot are horizontal, parallel to level ground. This would be in accordance with the world view according to which the sun’s single wheel turns its luminous side towards heaven during the night and towards earth during the day. According to Rgveda 1,185,1d, “day and night turn around like two wheels”, and in the Maha ̄bha ̄rata, the two wheels of Kr ̊s.n.a’s chariot are compared to the sun and the moon."

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:48 am

Part V


Parpola wrote:
The sun and the pillar

The Rgveda also speaks of “races which have the sun as and the chariot of the As ́vins is called “sun-finding” their prize” the va ̄japeya race is the turning post (ka ́ ̄s..tha ̄-), which the Bra ̄hman.a texts equate with the world of heaven. In many Rgvedic hymns, the sun is the cosmic pillar.

The sun seems to become the cosmic pillar at sunrise, when its light separates heaven and earth. This fits the idea that the sun in its daily course turns around at sunrise and sunset, and accordingly the rising sun should represent the turning post in the chariot race won by the As ́vins. In fact, when Rgveda 1,116,17 speaks of the goddess Dawn as ascending the chariot of the As ́vins after these had won the chariot race for her marriage, it com- pares her to one who has victoriously reached the goal with the horse- chariot.

The va ̄japeya sacrificer climbs the sacrificial post after his victorious race. Having reached the top, he raises his arms and recites the formula, “We have come to the heaven [or: the sun, suvah]  to the gods; we have become immortal...”
The va ̄japeya in many ways emphasizes the image of the sun or wheel at the top of a post. Inevitably, one is reminded of “Asoka’s pillars”, which are called stambha- and have the solar “dharmacakra” on the top.

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Their occurrence in connection with the stu ̄pas makes one suspect that they are survivals of an ancient tradition of erecting a turning post for a funeral chariot race near the funeral monument. The Va ̄ra ̄ha-Grhyasu ̄tra prescribes a tree or a caitya ̊ (i.e., a funeral monument) as appropriate marks for the bridegroom to make a sunwise turn with his chariot after an eastward start, when he takes the bride and the nuptial fire to his own house after the wedding.This has a parallel in the Iliad (23,326-333), where Nestor points out the turning post to his son Antilochus as being a dead tree trunk flanked by two white stones, a sign marking an old funeral or previously used as a turning post."

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:49 am

Part VI


Parpola wrote:
"The funeral monument and the chariot wheel

The stu ̄pa is the funeral monument of the Buddha as the spiritual emperor, equal to a cakka- vatti ra ̄ja ̄, whose insignia include the dharma- cakra on the top of a pillar . The term cakravartin for the universal emperor is connected with the Buddha in the story of his first sermon which equalled the dharmacakrapravar- tana, setting the wheel of law rolling. This is obviously related to the turning of the wheel on which the brahman priest is sitting, personifying Brhaspati, the royal priest of the gods.

̊A similar episode is also known from the Vedic ritual of establishing the sacred s ́rauta fires, agnya ̄dheya. The newly lighted fire is taken in a procession from the ga ̄rhapatya hearth to the a ̄havan ̄ıya hearth, where it is to be placed upon the hoofprint made by the young horse that leads the procession. Simultaneously, the brahman priest rolls a chariot wheel (or alternatively a whole chariot) forwards so that the wheel turns around three times. According to the Taittir ̄ıya-Bra ̄hman.a, this means that the sacrificer, by means of a human chariot, mounts a divine chariot.  While rolling the wheel, the brahman priest mutters battle hymns, in which Brhaspati is prayed to for help and victory.

In this hymn, Rgveda 1,163.346,  the horse is praised as having been created by the Vasu gods out of the sun, as given by Yama and as first yoked by Trita and as (its chariot) first mounted by Indra. This splendid horse arises from the womb of the waters.

Trita was put down in a pit, but saved from distress by Brhaspati. Trita’s case is similar to that of Vandana and others saved from a pit or distress by the Na ̄satyas, and the pit here denotes the grave.
In a later version of this myth the word used for the pit, ku ̄pa is understood as a well, which is its other meaning. Trita and his two brothers, Ekata and Dvita, roam thirsty in a desert and find a well. Trita descends into the well and gives water to his brothers. But after the two had slaked their thirst, they left Trita in the well,covered him with a chariot wheel and went away.He was saved when he supernaturally saw the Traita song and praised Parjanya with it. In the Ka ̄n.va hymn to Varun.a, “Trita is described as one in whom all wisdom is centred, as the nave in a wheel.” He is like the brahman priest (Brhaspati) sitting upon the chariot wheel.
Some ancient stu ̄pas have the ground plan of the wheel. The chariot wheel is one of the Vedic citis.  Only a builder of a fire altar was entitled to a funeral monument."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:50 am

Part VII


Parpola wrote:
"Summary:

Proto-Aryan was spoken in the Sintashta-Arkaim culture of the Volga steppes and the southern Urals. By 2000 BCE, this culture developed the horse-drawn chariot, and the deified two-man char- iot team of the chariot warrior and his charioteer became the model for a dual kingship and the “twin sons of the sky”, the main divinities of the pantheon. The chariot and its mythic lore spread to the Proto-Greeks and Proto-Balts as well as to the Proto-Finno-Ugrians of the mid-Volga and mid-Urals, who were ruled by a Proto-Aryan-speaking elite. Many of the Proto-Aryan loanwords surviving in Finno-Ugrian languages testify to the Na ̄satya cult. Particularly important is the term stambha, which denoted the turning post of chariot races and the world mountain around which the two As ́vins, as the day and night aspects of the sun, make their daily circles. The sun and the fire represented these white and black aspects of the sun, symbolized by the wheel, the chariot, and the horse. The night sky was imagined to be an ocean, and the night-sun, or fire, was hiding as a man- or horse-shaped embryo in its womb.

The worship of the divine twins or the sun and the fire was associated with the sunrise and sunset, which were understood to be moments of birth and death. Night and dark- ness symbolized death, and the generation of light at early dawn by means of a fire-drill symbolized the generation of new life. The twins were funeral deities who saved the de- ceased from the distress of the grave — this was especially the function of the charioteer, the na ̄satya, who carried the worshipper to the world of heaven (the solar world) in his divine chariot in the morning. They were also deities of (re)generation and fertility who “rejuvenated” old and decrepit people by making them re-enter the womb in connection with marriage ceremonies — this was especially the function of the warrior, the marya, who was the prototypical wooer and bridegroom, and the husband of his beautiful sister, the dawn, the daughter of the sun or sky.

The divine twins were worshipped at the liminal passages of dawn and dusk, at fu- nerals and marriages, and at the turning points of the solar year. Their cult involved the worship of fire and the sun, including especially the generation of fire with a fire-drill and regular morning and evening drink offerings poured into fire, as well as chariot races. The favourite drink of the twins was honey-beer, a mixture of sour milk and honey. Its preparation involved churning, and gave rise to the myth of “the churning of the milk ocean”. Perhaps the twins themselves, going daily around the central world mountain as the day and night sun, were the original churners, then replaced by devas and asuras, divinities associated with the day and night respectively. The product was the “nectar of immortality”, which was conceived of as seed that could revive the dead."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:54 am

Part VIII


Lyssa wrote:
"Crisis is also a gap."



The sanskrit word for battle-matrix is Chakra-vyuh  -  Wheel-formations. It is also called Padma-vyuh  - Lotus-arrangements: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These battle-formations or the lotus-matrix is a constantly shifting, moving labyrinth. With every move, the whole per-Mutation of the enemy changes; no ready exits, no theory of "two entrances" here. Going into, is also a going "down", a descent into the "fury",,, and so likewise, the emerging out is also a coming out - a rebirth,, why labyrinths, 'going to battle' was associated with initiation:

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The 'Theseus' of India - Abhimanyu, as described in the great epic Mahabharath, describes him as the valourous one who knew how to get in and "break" the "labyrinth",, but he did not know how to come out the "Moving Wheel", and was slaughtered...  the gap, "the circle closed in on him". No Ariadne there...

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The "Moving Wheel" or the "orientating 0" are "pressure points", the "clash of the rocks" through which the Hero had to make exit or face death: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Chess is a similar game; the one who goes in must place his step and make his move carefully, else be swallowed up, by the changing formations and permutations.

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In Ireland, as described in the White Goddess by Robert Graves, the "Revolving Castle" of Arianrrhod was a similar account of that danger, orientating initiation and rebirth.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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