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 Paganism and natural order.

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Black Panther

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri May 27, 2016 4:11 pm

OhFortunae wrote:



The will to earth is strong with the Russians.



As the man travels this song takes on several languages, including a lovely bit in Dutch.
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:42 pm

Dagaz.

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Quote :
"Dæg byþ drihtnes sond,
deore mannum, mære metodes leoht,
myrgþ and tohiht eadgum and earmum,
eallum brice."

"An estate is very dear to every man,
if he can enjoy there in his house
whatever is right and proper
in constant prosperity."

Rig Veda wrote:
"Parents of Gods, who aid with favour,
Both mid the Gods, with Day and Night alternate.
Protect us, Heaven and Earth, from fearful danger." [1.185]

Quote :
"It is the rune of breakthrough, transformation, and the day.

The ‘point of poise’ entails balancing polarities. Dagaz can be used to gain absolute stillness. It is invisible transforming power. The vibrational patterns of the self, or an object can be dampened so that the perception of material things to the human eye grow faint. Finding this point of poise takes great skill and practice with Dagaz but mastery of this rune of enlightenment leads down the path of disappearance. Mastery of invisibility leads to the understanding of existence through its opposite: non-existence.

It represents time and space, and the weaving movement of the loom of life. Dagaz may be used to summon clarity, or to reveal the hidden motivations and actions of an enemy. It may further be invoked to set aside past "bad blood" and begin with a clean slate. A fresh start from scratch."

Satyr wrote:
"1/0 is based on the on/off cellular activity.

On = neural pulse going through neural cluster or a neural cluster of cells, stimulating them into activity. (1)
Off = no pulse going through neural cluster (0)
Human metabolic rates, and cellular activities.
Systolic/Diastolic.

The emergence of binary reasoning, as the simplest form, and so the first, easiest - path-of-least-resistance.
Math being the most abstract language using 1/0.
These two data streams converge in the brain where they are processed, and feedback occurs - reaction.
Processing involves simplification/generalization of fluidity into simpler forms....we call this abstracting, and noumena.

Metabolic rates are the basis for our experience of time/space.

All technologies and techniques are extensions of organic processes. Man translates genetic code (pattern) into numerical code and then builds versions of his physical processes externally, or applies organic processes externally;

Genetic code = memory, nature/past sum of all past nurturing
Memetic code = memory/knowledge, cultural traditions, morals, rituals, behaviors passed on as linguistic code, and numerical code."


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The black and white of the Tabla provide the basis of two opposites: Ta Tee Tin : Dha Dhee Dhin
Permutations upon these alternations of day and night, slowly build into a rhythm, into a season, into a cycle, into a year…
Some myths attribute the garland of alphabets to have fallen off from the basic alternation of two primal sounds, the closing and the opening of the eye of Shiva, day and night alternates, and much like the 1/0 of the Pythagorean tetractys.

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The Iching too is an expansion from two sets of complete lines __ , and broken lines _ _ - the yin and yang, expanding into their metaphysical/astrological system.

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Wendy Donniger wrote:
"The carrion-eater dances:
he produces day and night by successive opening and closing of his eyes.
he covers heaven with his quill-like hair that flies in all directions from
the openings of the skull he holds within his hands.
He breaks our eardrums with his mighty roar" [The Dance of Siva]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:08 am

apaosha wrote:
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Good site.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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apaosha
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:10 am

Lyssa wrote:
apaosha wrote:
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Good site.

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Thanks.

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Jarno

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:27 pm

Something positive from Sweden, that's rare


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Too beautiful


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:37 pm

Jarno wrote:
Something positive from Sweden, that's rare




The gathering of the senses...
Beautiful, and beautiful find; thanks!


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:37 am

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Dr.Rorschach

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:05 am

Jarno wrote:
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Sigh...Nordic peeps are doomed,lol
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:53 pm

"Eagle and Piling Up of the Altar"


Both the Greco-Germanics and the Indics have a phrase called the "piling up of the altar" associated with the mead myth and the eagle as an emblem of victory, for the altar was thought to re-Create - "pile up" the cosmos and keep the worlds connected. The eagle flew closest to the sun, and in the spread of its wings, the world "spread out" was piled back up and "put back together". The sun/kosmos was re-Stored from attrition, from "spreading out thin" into the world.
Later the phrase was transferred with the same semantics to the "piling up of the breaths", with the self as the altar, re-Storing the primal man/cosmic giant, and the pile connecting the self and the Self together.

The pile as the pole.

In the Vedic rites, the layout of the eagle was like a matrix corresponding to all the "joints" of day and night, of seasons and minutes that make up the Year - the Kosmos.

Only obscure metaphorical passages remain.


Gabriel Turville-Petre wrote:
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Modern day altar table.


"The names Ermanaric and (H)erminiones must have meant something more than 'the great king', 'the great people'.
Evidence of the sacral significance of irmin- is found especially in the Saxon records about the Irminsul. It is plain that the Irminsul was a place or an object held in veneration by the pagan Saxons, but it is described in rather varying terms.'

According to the Prankish Annals, Charles the Great burned down the chief seat of Saxon heathendom near Heresburg in Westphalia in A.D. 772, and this was called Irminsul or Erminsul. It is stated in another text that Charles destroyed the temple {fanum) of the Saxons, quod vocatur Irminsul. Elsewhere the Irminsul is described as a famous grove (lucum famosum).

From these quotations, it is evident that the Irminsul was thought of as a temple, a holy grove, and an idol, but Rudolph of Fulda goes into closer detail when he describes it. The Saxons used to worship leafy trees and wells, but, Rudolph goes on to say, they particularly worshipped truncum quoque ligni non parvae magnitudinis in altum erectum. In the Saxon language this was called Irminsul, quod Latine dicitur universalis columna, quasi sustinens omnia.

From this last passage it appears that the Irminsul was a column or sacred pillar, believed to uphold the universe. This is borne out by an obscure passage written by the monk Widukind about 968. About the year 831, the Saxons had won a victory over the Thuringians at Scheidungen, on the Unstrut. In the morning they placed their eagle at the eastern gate, and piled up an altar of victory according to their traditional superstition, imitating by the name of Mars the Pillar of Hercules.

The word Irminsul also appears in various forms in the Old High German glosses; it is said to mean colossus, altissima columna. The plural irminsuliis also glossed as pyramides. If we are not yet able to explain the first element of the compound, the second is plain enough. It is related to the Old English syl (pillar, column) which, in the phrase Ercoles syla in the Old English Orosius is applied to the Pillars of Hercules {Herculis columnae). It is, therefore, of the same origin as Old Norse sul, siila, meaning 'pillar'.

The Old Norse compound ondvegisstila (generally in pl. ondvegissulur) has a strong sacral significance. It is often translated as 'pillars of the high seat', although this translation is misleading. The origin of the word gndvegi is disputed, but its first element probably means 'opposite', and the second may derive from vegr, 'way'.

However that may be, the gndvegi was the central place in the main room or hall, where the master of the house would sit with chosen companions. It is most fully described by the author of the Fagrskinna, when speaking of royal residences in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. These buildings had a doorway at each end, and the king's seat was on the middle of the long bench or dais, facing the sun. Opposite it was the lower or second ondvegi (hit oedra, annat ondvegi), occupied in this case by the king's counsellor, or by the most distinguished guests. The farther their seat from the central place on each side, the less was the honour shown to its occupants. The ondvegi was not a single seat, for we sometimes read of several sitting in it together. It is told of Haraldr Finehair that he esteemed his poets most of all his retainers, and they occupied the second gndvegi.

The ondvegi, as it seems, was marked off from the rest of the hall by the gndvegissulur, the main supporting pillars, of which there were probably four, two on each side. These were venerated because they supported the house, as the Irminsul supported the universe.

The deep veneration in which the ondvegissulur were held is emphasized in a great number of stories about men who settled in Iceland in the ninth and tenth centuries, showing that these pillars were regarded as the abode of tutelary gods, who would guide the settler to his new home. In Iceland it was particularly the god I'orr who guided the supporting pillars, as is shown in many sources.

For the settlers of Iceland, I'orr was the chief god who upheld their houses, as he upheld their law and their traditional religion. On these lines we may understand the significance of Thurstable, or Thunor's Pillar, in Essex. We may suppose that it was the site of a pillar sacred to the god Thunor. This pillar was probably believed to support the sky and thus the world, Irmin and I'orr resembled Hercules in that all three were gods of supporting pillars. While the Irminsul supported the world of the Saxons, I'orr, with his gndvegissulur, upheld the house of the Icelandic farmer, and with his stapol he assured the security of the Essex hundred.

In Greek myth, as is well known, it was the task of Atlas to hold up the celestial globe. But on one occasion, when he went to fetch the apples of the Hesperides, Herakles (Hercules) relieved Atlas of his painful burden.

Thorr, Irmin, Herakles, and Atlas were not the only gods whose task was to uphold the house, the sky, the universe. It was also the task of Indra, filled with soma, as I'orr was filled with mead. In R.T.H.Griffith's noble rendering of the Rigveda:

High heaven in unsupported space he stablished: he filled the two worlds and the air's mid-region."

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"Around the year 850, Rudolf of Fulda described Irminsûl as Universalis columna, quasi sustinens omnia. The pillar upheld the world and prevented the sky from falling.
Our name for Irminsûl was Veraldarsûla, which is "The World Pillar". We know little about what Irminsûl looked like. It was either a large tree or a large pillar. The Scandinavian pillars, on the other hand, we know more about. They were cut out with faces on top of the pillars – a face for each pillar. When the Norwegians colonized Iceland, they threw the pillars overboard, and allowed them to decide where they would settle down. Where the pillars hit land, they would settle down.

The Scandinavian pillars were also adorned with nails; so called Reginnaglar (god-nails). Other names for these nails were Regingaddi (god-thorn) and Veraldarnagli (world-nail). These nails sat thorn-like on top of the pillars and pointed towards the sky. The pillars that stood by themselves symbolized the thunder-god, Þórr (Thor). For the Germanics, the oldest known name for Þórr is actually IrminiaR. The name means "the great" and "the strong" and refers to Þórr enormous physical strength and willpower."

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"Tacitus (Germ., 2) says that the Germans classified their race in three great divisions, Inguæones, Herminones, and Istæuones, according to their descent from the three sons of Mannus. It seems likely therefore that worship was once paid to these brothers. Perhaps the cult of lrmin may be traced. When the elder Drusus was on his expedition to the Elbe in B.C. 9, he heard that there were ‘pillars of Hercules’ in existence, but was prevented from obtaining more precise information by the difficulty of crossing the sea. From Tacitus’ account (Germ., 34) it would seem that these pillars were rumoured to be in the direction of Holstein. Now this was, in the second century, the country occupied by the Saxons. In the time of Karl the Great, that is to say some centuries after the westward migration of the Saxons, the chief object of their worship was a lofty wooden pillar in the neighbourhood of Eresburg. This pillar, which was called Irminsul (quod latine dicitur uniuersalis columna), was destroyed by Karl in the year 772.

Is it not likely that the Saxons practised a similar cult in their earlier home, and that this was the source of the story mentioned by Tacitus? This view is especially favoured by a passage of Widukind (i., 12). After describing a legendary victory of the Saxons, he proceeds: “In the morning they planted their eagle at the eastern gate, and piling up an altar of victory, they paid appropriate reverence to the objects of their worship, according to the superstition of their fathers, representing by name Mars, by the likeness of pillars Hercules, by position the Sun, who is called Apollo by the Greeks.” By ‘Mars,’ he means lrmin, as is shown by the next sentence: “hence the view of those who hold that the Saxons are descended from the Greeks, has a certain amount of probability, for Mars is called Hirmin or Hermis in Greek.” In spite of the confusion of native and Græco-Roman mythology, this passage shows that the Irminsul was connected with the cult of a deity or hero named Irmin, and renders it probable that this was the god whom the Romans called ‘Hercules.’ The cult of Hercules was known also to the Cherusci, another tribe of the Irminones, though there is no evidence that the cult here took the same form. Probably the cult of Irmin was known to all the Irminones, but its association with the sacred pillar may have been peculiar to the Saxons." [Munro Chadwick, The Ancient Teutonic Priesthood]


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"Agnicayana: rite of piling the fire altar, included in the soma sacrifices, in 5 layers with bricks. it is represented in  SBr. as a human imitation of the construction of the cosmic world of the Prajapati."

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"The layers of the altar have the following significance: The first layer represents the earth, the third the space, and the fifth the sky. The second layer represents the joining of the earth and space, whereas the fourth layer represents the joining of space and sky. This altar was symbolically represented as a falcon [eagle] or a tortoise as well as other shapes. The Satapatha Br. (12.3.2.5) speaks of the year having 10,800 muhurtas (1 muhu ̄rta = 48 minutes), and the basic Agnicayana altar was to have an area of 108,000 square angulas." [Kak, Asvamedha]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:44 pm

(s: Jarno)

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:36 am

The sun-horse and the storm-dragon.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Acryptical

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:08 am

Satyr wrote:
Paganism, as it is called in our time, or Aryanism or Indo-European culture, is a relationship,a  love affair.
And like all love affairs it is about power balances - pulling/pushing...one moment it is full of love and the next hate may erupt.  

How man relates to world is agon - love/hate.
Man resist, confronts, separates, from nature, but also accepts, embraces, endures, tolerates.

To man's intuition, the world can be counter-intuitive - to man's, as organism, ordering, world is Flux, producing randomness, to man's morality, caring, world is indifferent, and amoral, to man's subjectivity world is, and is, for man object/objective; to man's need to know, to control, world is unknowable, it is fluctuating, slipping away, falling away.

Paganism is this humble awe before world/nature, but into a capitulation, not a bowing down...as the Greeks believed in their Olympian metaphors of world.  

At its root paganism is the loving, honoring of one's past/nature, through his ancestors, and since the individual is the last ring in that chain, he is the present/presence manifestation of this past/nature, paganism is love of self.
not blind, mad, self-flattering, love.
Not delusional erotic love, but lucid, rational, aware, love = agape.

Eros accentuates agape, as it does between a man and a woman, but it does not replace, or usurp agape, because this would make it a frenzy, an instinctual, and shallow.

Paganism began by believing not in ghosts and spirits, but in one's own dead.
The proto-pagans worshiped their dead, their ancestors, and they prayed to them for guidance, and help - and so essentially they were looking for guidance and help from inside of themselves - taping into their inheritance as it was present in them as genetic code.
Later they universalized their ancestors, and made them into metaphors for natural forces - calling them gods.

Not absolute, infallible, omniscient, omnipotent, one god, but forces.  
Before them man was not a slave, not a submissive nothing, but both benefactor and challenger.
Man fought with and against the gods.  

Practically speaking, pagan man critically listened to those who came before, learning from the experiences passed on.

It seems to me that the advent of Orthodoxy disarmed man of his knowledge, essentially supplying him with a one-size-fits-all handbook. Limited, superficial, vague knowledge consisting a great deal of methods to instill fear of the consequences for not toeing the(ir) line. It relegated him as an object to be called upon. An automaton.

I wonder if the Guardians of Orthodoxy don't deserve a nod of respect for their well played hand, or should I look with disgust on those who so willingly surrendered their arms. At times I do both.

At other times, I feel as though the old ways and the people who practiced them inevitably didn't stand a chance of retaining any significant grasp on the value of individuality what with the acquisition of the very knowledge they were working so hard to accumulate and master. Proximity to controlling external forces has also tightened due to the rise of technology (primarily speed of travel and instantaneous communication), making personal individualism more difficult to maintain. Essentially, the more knowledge that was gained, the easier it became for large groups of people to be controlled by smaller groups.

This takes me back to the OP, about how hippies are deluding paganism. From my perspective, it's inevitable that the hippy-type is the primary character drawn to paganism because they're the ones who seek to unplug from the Network, yet they're incapable of truly, fully escaping it because of the pervasive presence of, in a word, Orthodoxy (not only in the religious sense, but in the political and technological sense). They, the hippies, have no choice but to adopt a pseudo-pagan lifestyle--such as the tarot card reader traveling around in a gas guzzling 8 cylinder van wearing polyester clothing. In modern Western culture, it's ironic that you can't truly revert to a stone age lifestyle without vast sums of money, unless you genuinely have the courage to leave society all together.

Being an outcast from society isn't inherently a pagan virtue. The idea of being solitary, out-in-the-boondocks-nature-loving is most definitely a modern installment to paganism. The old timers didn't aspire to love nature, since they were forced to fend it off on a daily basis--they had no choice but to live as one with it, because if they didn't they were dead.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:06 am

Acryptical wrote:
I wonder if the Guardians of Orthodoxy don't deserve a nod of respect for their well played hand, or should I look with disgust on those who so willingly surrendered their arms. At times I do both.

Decay and decadence is a natural by-effect of growth, of life.
There is a natural inevitability to dcadence setting in, as a culture advances into a civilization machine, and soon the reasons for particular practices are forgotten, and rituals are so blindly repeated, they appear like superstitious customs. J.Xt. inroads were in a period where decadence had already set in and the argument that Xt. brought reason and logic into barbaric excesses sounds sound only in this light. But one does not forget, such reason in Xt. was the product of world-denial and world-inversion.
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At other times, I feel as though the old ways and the people who practiced them inevitably didn't stand a chance of retaining any significant grasp on the value of individuality what with the acquisition of the very knowledge they were working so hard to accumulate and master. Proximity to controlling external forces has also tightened due to the rise of technology (primarily speed of travel and instantaneous communication), making personal individualism more difficult to maintain. Essentially, the more knowledge that was gained, the easier it became for large groups of people to be controlled by smaller groups.

And your idea of "individualism" is what?

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:58 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:28 am

Lyssa wrote:
And your idea of "individualism" is what?
In a word,... decadence.

More precisely, any practice where the individual's desires are valued more than the collective's needs.

In mystery traditions, VS the "do this" traditions, one is encouraged to make their own decisions in regards to the most fundamental questions of our existence. The quest for answering those questions for one's self becomes a driving force that helps to give one's own meaning (the response to our human ability to ask, "Why?"). It's the psychological side of the argument that new physical frontiers on which we look with wonder and awe are necessary to inspire purpose. The very fact that it, the frontier, is unknown fulfills the external factor of meaning (meaning which is given and absolute, VS meaning which is fabricated/relative/imaginary). But if it (the psychological frontier) is known from the get go, as the people of the book proclaim, then what's the point except doing what you're told, mechanically? The work's been done. The edges of the map's been filled in. No mystery. Apathy.

If we are currently settling into decadence as a culture in the West (and I'm not sure if this was your specific meaning, so it might just be an issue of semantics), it is on a superficial level. Violet upsurges (in various forms, some not necessarily including actual harm of others) come as a result of a lifetime of personal emotional neglect. Lack of fulfillment. Decadence in terms of the material are superficial (the love of wealth, beer, sex, job, or anything tangible), and are distractions to the counterpart: when decadence in terms of something intangible occurs... then I would say we are settling into it. Until then we're just taking a peek (as a society though not as individuals).

Concerning myself on a personal level, individually, I know that I generally feel fed up because of the propaganda that I need to toe the line. In dealing with this, I am on the edge of apathy, and a great hatred wells within me because of it. The hatching of the violent egg. But I still have time before the thing grows and bursts from my chest in a desperate, last-ditch release of unbridled passion, the consequences of which are unproductive in the ultimate sense. But I think I'd rather buy it that way instead of plugging in. For me, there's still a long way to go.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:35 pm

Carve Runes in Trees

"In this mediocrity
We will carve runes into a tree
We will ride our destinies
And we will will who we will to be

Our roots run deep, our roots are old
Reaching into worlds unknown
Against this rising tide we'll go
To reclaim our noble souls"





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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:35 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:37 am

Raidho.


FX wrote:
You need to put more images of corpses and stuff in your posts for the KTSers to come flying over.
See how they all flocked to what I put out to show what they are made of?

It is the conclusion one draws from VO, that people are far more predictable than one thinks, that is shewn here to be correct.

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I missed that other part.

What Fixed is implying is how in times of defense, "friends stick together" and how KT acted proves his VOt, that 'Philosophy is Friendship'  mafia-path.

This is one of the root problems of the dumbed-down situation the world is.

KTS people who defended KTS y'day, did not stick up "for each other",, they stuck up for a truth and a reality that is higher than them in an "open" world that they share together. Its a solidarity united by confronting an open reality.

In the mafia-path, friends sticking up for "each other", rather than what is higher reality, create a closed square; they "square off" and "trim" the world into an epicurean garden. Whatever can fester in such a bonding that puts loyalty before the world may defend a truth, but not promote knowledge.

The muck state of the world we find ourselves in, is because of such mutual nod to get along and 'i cover your back' and 'you cover mine'…
Sticking up for someone even knowing they are wrong may have emotional strength and great love and strong bonds, and whatever else, but what it is not, is doing "Philosophy".


Philosophy is not born of friendships; friendships are born of the highest truths that pull like-minded souls together each in their integrity.

It is the form of our inner-ranking of drives, whether we see ourselves as faithful to our clan, or faithful to an indifferent reality.
Then, sharing the good And bad, the truths And errors, loving And forgiving our kin beyond pleasure/pain annuls the hedonism of the mafia-path.
And walking alone if needs be, trekking the solo path with no solace, no comfort, in pursuit of the highest, left behind by those who cannot keep up with us, beyond pain and pleasure annuls any hedonism of the latter path. Heavy weights that cant climb, keep us down, and we cant look back, if we are to raise them. This is a protracted friendship.

In the former Mafia-path, there is loyalty and sometimes courage is born of it. There is a subjective danger of retardation keeping reality out.

In the latter Phlosophy-path, there is courage, and sometimes loyalties are gained. There is an objective danger of facing those 'indifferent' truths that can no longer distinguish values, life and death, good and bad, noble and ignoble...

This path is not easy. It requires sacrifice of friends, teachers, fathers and brothers and lovers,,, as Nietzsche realized in his parting with Wagner.

And not everyone is meant for it, even if they could trek it alone.

The "warm" joy of many a beautiful friendship will have to be given up if the path one is set on, is that of knowledge.

Just as Neo in the Matrix is able to slow down and dodge a bullet, after Riding Out into the world;

Quote :
Raidho.

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Guido von List wrote:
"A fifth I heard, if from a happy flight a shot flies into the host;
however swiftly it flies, I will force it to stop if I can only catch it with my gaze."

The exalted introspective awareness or subjectivity of the Aryans was their consciousness of their own godliness, for internity is just being with one's self, and to be with one's self is to be with the Nordic God. As long as a people possesses unspoiled their entire original internity as a natural people (the people as a natural people is not being in a savage condition, for uncivilised savages live in the bondage of the most horrible shamanism; the people as a natural people, on the contrary, stipulates a high level of culture, yet free from any kind of false sophistication), it also has no cause to worship an external divinity, for an external divine service bound by ceremony is only made obvious when one is not able to find the Nordic God in one's own innermost being, and begins to see this outside his ego and outside the world -- up there in the starry heaven. The less internal the person is, the more outward his life becomes. The more a people loses its internity, the more pompous and ceremonialised its outward manifestations become -- in the character of its government, law, and cult (all of which will begin to emerge as separate ideas). But they should remain one in the knowledge: What I believe is what I know, and so I also live it out. For this reason, the Aryan divine internity is also the basis for a proud disdain for death among the Aryans and for their limitless trust in the Nordic God and in the self, which expresses itself gloriously in the primal law of the Aryans and which has the fifth rune as its symbolic word sign. Therefore, this rune says: I am my right (rod), this right is indestructible, therefore I am myself indestructible, because I am my right." [The Secret of the Runes]


It is our trust in ourselves, and our passion that urges us forward to make journeys with no support, no friends, no kin to live out what we 'know', with life itself is our travelling companion, our stead, our home-stead.

Those who are firm inside are free to explore the world, quest for knowledge, without making religious necessities of it, turning the world into a sanctuary of love.

Those who have no self-trust, believe in mafia-love. They require external validations, in the manner those who agree with them are "friends", and those who dont, are not. "You are either with me, or you are not" is the motto of one given up on the knowledge path and become "recruiters". The exterior world then becomes a place for creating a one giant family that gives it its confidence and feeling of indestructibility.


Philosophical Friendships are like tributaries and rivers that meander away, and if their pursuit is passionately sincere, meet together in some distant time and place, where a common reality bridges them again.

What cannot unite at a lower plane may unite at some higher one - it needs the Journeying [Raidho].

Nietzsche wrote:
"My dear friend, what is this our life? A boat that swims in the sea, and all one knows for certain about it is that one day it will capsize. Here we are, two good old boats that have been faithful neighbors, and above all your hand has done its best to keep me from "capsizing"! Let us then continue our voyage—each for the other's sake, for a long time yet, a long time! We should miss each other so much! Tolerably calm seas and good winds and above all sun—what I wish for myself, I wish for you, too, and am sorry that my gratitude can find expression only in such a wish and has no influence at all on wind or weather!"

[November 14, 1881: Letter from Friedrich Nietzsche to Franz Overbeck]


Rivers ride on.

The Journey of a thousand miles.

And lost friends shall meet again.

With one mind.

When valleys and mountains rock back and forth,

to collect them collectively together in deep river basins.


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:52 am

Inter-Subjectivity.

Reality excluded, means the noumenon must find participants in its own delusion, its disconnection form reality - brothers in crime - ideological, theoretical mates.
A clan of abstraction, gathering within a shared delusion.


The phenomenon excluded, makes the noumenon the only source of validation.
How many other minds can you convince, coerce, seduce?
Matrix of containment.
Role playing game.
Unreal, sampling only images, symbols, to fabricate characters/caricatures.

How does a madman validate his madness?
He assimilates other madmen into his insanity.
He normalizes it.

Words connecting minds, not mind to word, but mind to mind - intimate.
Lingo, gestures, secret codes.
With no external reference, they are esoteric.
Shared only by the initiated = cult.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:54 am

That post was beautiful, Lyssa.

Lyssa wrote:
This path is not easy. It requires sacrifice of friends, teachers, fathers and brothers and lovers,,, as Nietzsche realized in his parting with Wagner.

To feel loss when one cuts any sort of tie with another, is a sign of appreciation. Even a noble person feels a sense of sorrowful loss when they have conquered a difficult opponent and they are no longer there to help define them.

Nihilists cry out in pain as they hurt you...They need to show others that they hate that they must attack the healthy as they do. If they did not, then their nihilism might be exposed to everyone who laid witness - for being hypocrites. That is why the hatred against "Nazis" is so intense and visceral.  Every time they call for the elimination of "Nazis",  there's a tinge of "I'm the victim in my own assault against them!"

It is fundamentally a different kind of pain, one from hurting themselves, that they cry about the loss. They sell it as an extreme kind of noble sentiment, an exaggerated one... When it is but the nature of their strategy, in which they hate they have to dirty themselves publicly more than that they performed the dirty act itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:03 pm

Interesting viewpoint.


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:25 am

Old news ^
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:31 pm

Slaughtz wrote:
That post was beautiful, Lyssa.

Lyssa wrote:
This path is not easy. It requires sacrifice of friends, teachers, fathers and brothers and lovers,,, as Nietzsche realized in his parting with Wagner.

To feel loss when one cuts any sort of tie with another, is a sign of appreciation. Even a noble person feels a sense of sorrowful loss when they have conquered a difficult opponent and they are no longer there to help define them.


Maybe a song that covers both the mafia and sofia povs.

In the context of Raidho.





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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:27 pm

For MM.

Ansuz is essentially the rune of Hope.

There is respect from fear, and there is a respect from an increasing discrimination.

There is the 'respect' of Xt. court-esy, where uncivility is equated to the abhorence of the animal body.

But there is also a kind of respect that places hope in the opportunity for those entangled within an interval - , making most of a moment that could potentially let one to stand distinguished for who they are.

It doesn't matter who is before you - could be a nobody, some trash, someone ordinary, but when one is mindful, that to be pitted against the lowly, the highly, nobody, whoever or whatever it is, it is one's own luck that gathered that much for who one is, one's fatum… to be present at that juncture, with those things, which could easily have been some other things and yet not,.. there's a respect from hope one places towards this meaningless interval that one has dragged along, or was dragged into, for mirroring the possibilities, and then one washes one's hands off it, expecting nothing. It could be an incline or decline or no change thereafter.

This kind of (self-)respect is being firm in oneself to encounter the maximum of the other - the 'dangerous fullness' of an occasion raising someone, even if they cannot rise up to the occasion...

This is self-respect to life itself that wants to grow, defend, challenge, etc.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:43 pm

[Keeping in mind, that 'Survive the Jive', so far the most serious I.E.-pagan youtube channel out there, have shifted to Perennialism.]


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:44 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:04 am



Multiple Gods always suggests a balance of power, and the power came from struggle. The Gods battled. They had distinctiveness and autonomy - but also enemies. Their plans could be thwarted or modified.

The Abrahamic God has no such leniency. His plan is absolute, and he steers everything into His grace. In fact, human will is steered by God in much the same way - and it becomes a contradiction for the Abrahamic religions that they must say the universe is deterministic ("God doesn't play dice") and humans simultaneously have a free will in which they choose a faith in Him. This contradiction makes necessary the disconnection of man and his agency from nature, and puts it into a nihilistic/noumenal realm. Monotheism requires solipsism, manifested as the swinging between two nihilistic poles.

With multiple and sometimes uncooperative or diverging Gods, none with an ultimate determinative will. A man or woman could bring about life and end life. A man could trick Gods and be blessed to become demi-Gods. In Greece, fate was represented by a group of old women, not one unified all-determining God:
The Fates wrote:
The Moirai or Fates were three sister deities, incarnations of destiny and life. Their names were Clotho, the one who spins the thread of life; Lachesis, she who draws the lots and determines how long one lives, by measuring the thread of life; and Atropos, the inevitable, she who chose how someone dies by cutting the thread of life with her shears. They were often described as being ugly and old women, stern and severe. Three days after a child was born, it was thought that the Moirai would visit the house to determine the child's fate and life.
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These fates are similar to the Norns in Odinism:
Norns wrote:
The Norns are the three Fates of Northern mythology, the Goddesses of time. They are named Urd (the past), Verdande (the present) and Skuld (the future). They watch over man; they spin his thread of fate at his birth and mark out with it the limits of his sphere of action through life; their decrees are inviolable destiny, their dispensations inevitable necessity. Urd  and  Verdande,  the  past  and  present,  may  be  seen  as stretching a web from the radiant dawn of life to the glowing sunset, while Skuld, the future tears it to pieces!
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Monotheism (and the subsequent death of that God) robs a human being of will, autonomy and agency OR (with acceptance of that God) it disconnects their identity from the natural world/past/etc. This is where two minds may come into play: one of the primal need/connection with nature (Jung's "Shadow") and one of identity (Jung's "Ego").
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:55 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:44 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:16 am

Interesting.


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