Know Thyself

Nothing in Excess
 
HomePortalFAQMemberlistSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Paganism and natural order.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:56 am

Part IX



The symbolism of the lotus on the battle-ground, and in the internal chakra systems of "alligning petal frequencies" in yoga [yoking] are not disconnected events - Action & Contemplation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

To speak analogically, victory is configured via the primordial myth of Hero slaying Dragon to Free the waters of life from the "undifferentiated" / "tamasic" / "inert" rock or tight-coil circle - the guarding/hoarding serpent of the cthonic world.

Relating this to the "wheel of life", 'the '0' - the nave of the wheel is a 'symbol' of "fire hiding in the waters"...  i.e, to "see" the sun beyond the clash of the closing rocks through the gap or the revolving wheel or revolving doorways was to be made "visible"; visibility was Life.

Ida/Pingala entangled together is a Moving Wheel, or the clashing of the rocks that cause blockage of potent energy, the vigour of the so(u)l...
Grids that can close in on you, knot up and trap energy...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:59 am

Part X



To release the water in the RV was metaphorized as releasing the cows [senses], and releasing the cows, as the release of the "sun" - stirring of the fire - looming of speech - wor(l)d...
The victor was called the "sun-winner"...

Here we come to the concept of the "cavity" and the 0 and the nave:


A.K.Coomaraswamy wrote:
"Skt. Kha, cf. Greek Xaos, is generally "cavity"; and in the Rg Veda, particularly "the hole in the nave of a wheel through which the axle runs" (Monier Williams).
The year as an everlasting sequence is thought of as an unwasting wheel of life, a revolving wheel
of the Angels, in which all things have their being and are manifested in succession; "none of its spokes is last in order" (RV v.85.5) . The parts of the wheel are named as follows: ani, the axle point within the nave (note that the axle causes revolution, but does not itself revolve); kha, nabhi, the nave (usually as space within the hub, occasionally as the hub itself); ara, spoke, connecting hub and felly; nemi, pavi, the felly. It should be observed that nabhi, from nabh, to expand, is also "navel" ; similarly in anthropomorphic formulation, "navel" corresponds to "space" (MU vi.6) ; in the Rg Veda, the cosmos is constantly thought of as "expanded" (pi n) from this chthonic center.
According to an alternative formulation, all things are thought of as ante principium shut up within, and in principio as proceeding from, a common ground, rock, or mountain (budhna, adri, parvata, etc.): this ground, thought of as resting island like within the undifferentiated sea of universal possibility (x.89.4, where the waters pour, is merely another aspect of our axle point (,dni), regarded as the primary assumption toward which the whole potentiality of existence is focused by the primary acts of intellection and will. This means that a priori undimensioned space (kha, akasa, etc.) underlies and is the mother of the point, rather than that the latter has an independent origin; and this accords with the logical order of thought, which proceeds from potentiality to actuality, nonbeing to being. This ground or point is, in fact, the "rock of ages" (asmany anante, 1.130.3; adrim . . . acyutam, v1.i7.5).
Here ante princi pium Agni lies occulted (guha santam, 1.141.3, etc.) as Ahi Budhnya, "in the ground of space, concealing both his ends" (budhne rajaso . . . guhamdno ants, iv.i.ii, where it may be noted that guhamano anta is tantamount to ananta, literally "end less," "in finite," "eternal"), hence he is called "chthonic" (nabhir agni prthivya, 1.59.2, etc.), and is born in this ground (jayata prathamah . . . budhne, iv.i.ii) and stands erect, Janus like, at the parting of the ways (ayor ha skambha . . . patham visarge, x.5.6) ; hence he gets his chthonic steeds and other treasures (asvabudhna, x.8.3; budhnya vasuni, v11.6.7). It is only when this rock is cleft that the hidden trine are freed, the waters flow (1.62.3).
This is, moreover, a center without place, and hence when the Waters have come forth (that is, when the cosmos has come to be) one asks, as in x.iii.8, "where is their beginning (agram), where their ground (budnah), where now, ye Waters, your innermost center (madhyam . . . antah) ?

Thus metaphysically, in the symbolism of the Wheel, the surface blank (sunya) in the initial nonbeing (asat) of any formulation (samkalpa) represents the truly infinite (adin) and maternal possibility of being; the axle point or nave, exemplary being (visvam ekam, RV 111.54.8 = integral omnipresence); the actual construction, a mentally accomplished partition of being into existences; each spoke, the integration of an individual as nama rupa, that is, as archetypal inwardly and phenomenal outwardly; the felly, the principle of multiplicity (visamatva).
Or, employing a more theological terminology : the undetermined surface represents the Godhead (aditi, parabrahman, tamas, apah) ; the axle point or immovable rock, God (aditya, aparabrahman, isvara, jyoti) ; the circle of the nave, Heaven (svarga); any point on the circumference of the nave, an intellectual principle (nama, deva); the felly, Earth with its analogous (anurupa) phenomena (visva  rupani); the construction of the wheel, the sacrificial act of creation (karma, srsti), its abstraction, the act of dissolution (laya). Furthermore, the course (gati) of any individual upon the pathway of a spoke is in the beginning centrifugal (pravrtta) and then again centripetal (nivrtta), until the center (madhya) is found; and when the center of individual being coincides with the center of the wheel, he is emancipated (mukta), the extension of the wheel no longer involving him in local motion, at the same time that its entire circuit now becomes for him one picture (jagaccitra) seen in simultaneity, who as "round about seer," paridrastr, now "overlooks everything," 1.164.44.

A picture writing of the nation "axle point" could only have been a "point," and of the concept "nave" could only have been a "round O," and both of these signs are employed at the present day to indicate "zero." The upright line that represents "one" may be regarded as a pictogram of the axis that penetrates the naves of the dual wheel's, and thus at once unites and separates Heaven and Earth. The Devanagari and Arabic signs for "three" correspond to the trident (trisula), which is known to have been from very ancient. times a symbol of Agni or Siva. A priori it might be expected that a sign for "four" should be cruciform, following the notion of extension in the directions of the four airts (dis); and in fact we find in Saka script that "four" is represented by a sign X, and that the Devandgari may well be ,thought of as a cursive form derived from a like prototype. Even if there be sufficient foundation for such suggestions, it is hardly likely that a detailed interpretation of ideograms of numbers above four could now be deduced. We can only say that the foregoing suggestions as to the nature of numerical ideograms rather support than counter the views of those who seek to derive the origins of symbolism, script, and speech from the concept of the circuit of the year."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(As to how the horse chariot and the wheel,,, battle and medicine,,, body and mind evolved together via the axle and the nave, parts I-VII have shown that from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/u])

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:02 am

Part XI


Ariannrhod of the Moving Wheel or the 'Revolving Castle' through which souls of the dead passed and were either reborn or not:


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


That is my visualization of my Dionysian model...  a "sweeping" force.... [victory]

To you, the open array and march would perhaps be a "psychic leak", but Evola describes this as release of the "second wind":

Evola wrote:
"Anybody who has practiced climbing may remember what a strange influx of new strength has sometimes occurred when, after feeling literally worn out by a storm and having almost reached a point of giving up, all of a sudden the place of and the way to safety are recognized; or when, after hours spent on the mountain face, feeling exhausted and uncertain about the way out, one finally sees the much yearned for peak.

Psychology has given a name to this phenomenon: it is called the "second wind" (W. James). In this way we must recognize that, aside from the vital force, which is usually at work in the limbs and organs related to them, there is a deeper and greater reservoir that manifests itself only in exceptional circumstances, almost always under the influence of a psychological or emotional factor. Thus, the task consists of finding a method through which to tap into this hidden source of energy, the essence of which is, however, experienced instinctively, causally, and emotionally.

The first way to achieve such a goal is rather intuitive. First of all it is necessary to empty one's self and to be willing to exhaust, as quickly as possible, the amount of energy available to the body, until a critical level of exhaustion is reached. Then, what occurs is the phenomenon of the second wind, in which the vital energies in reserve are forced to emerge. Since they are not connected to the physical body, they are not limited' they can do much more than physical energies. Thus, one enters into a new rhythm and state of tirelessness.

And so, for all practical purposes, one can overthrow the habitual conduct among climbers of trying to avoid exhaustion by proceeding at a slow pace, by becoming fatigued as soon as possible, tackling the ascent offensively.

The secret lies for the most part in the breath. It is necessary to get used to feeling one's breath, to immediately take control of it from the very first step, without ever letting go of it. Second, it is necessary to connect the rhythm of breathing to the pace of walking, without ever brewing this connection…

The point is to activate a psychic force because the pace must be increased and yet that connection with breath must also be maintained. Thus, what occurs after a short time is a condition of weariness that would induce most people to break the connection in order to breath more frequently or even to stop and to catch one's breath. Once a certain limit is reached, an inner act is required in order to go farther. Then what sets in is a new state in which walking and breathing form a natural unity no longer requiring one's supervision; there is no more tiredness and the initial speed of the assault is not only maintained effortlessly, almost by some mysterious inner push, but it is even increase despite steep inclines.

When this phenomenon is actively assumed and actualized, mountain sickness is replaced by a sense of lightness, by lack of tiredness, and almost by an intoxication that does not dull the senses but which bestows lucidity, a sense of impulse to action, which is the same that, in psychic training, always accompanies in a particularly lively and characteristic way every ascent, almost erasing the perception of time.

Those who, in every physical ascent, experience a little the sense of an inner elevation; those whho look at every icy height almost as the symbol of an intangible culmination; those who really grasp the message of the vast spaces, where there are only heaven and pure, free forces - they will most likely experience themselves not as body, but rather as life; they are likely to transform their lives with a creative vital tension so much as to achieve the results of the technique I describe.

In contrast, those who do not ascend as if they were carried by the body as if by a well-trained beast of burden are guarding the body's life forces. They are directly and consciously supporting the body with its inner energy, and thereby exalting it, energizing it, and bringing it forward in a manner that does not need to struggle against the flesh's weariness and weight. They are the most likely to intimately perceive the ritual meaning of an ascent, that living meaning of purification and liberation, whereby the ancient world (from the Greek Mount Olympus to the Hindu Mount Meru) saw in the great heights the symbolic dwelling of superhuman entities: what I have described in this is one aspect of what the ancients may have experienced as sacred on a mountain." [Meditation on the Peaks]

Yet, to dig beneath for a second wind, a spontaneity, a whole vessel and body of practice must be deposited or inherited.

The "clean sweep": memory<>momentum

Evola wrote:
"Sari literally means "memory," that is to say, continual practice of mindfulness of oneself; and of self-awareness.
When, however, the breath or respiration comes to be felt as prana, it can then be made to serve as a "way through": when the breath has been made conscious, when clear consciousness has been grafted onto the breathing, one is able to discover the "life of one's own life" and to control the organism and the mind in many ways that are quite impossible for the ordinary consciousness and will."[Doctrine of awakening]


Its a rhythm-setting of the world in terms of its self-assertion or self-integrity - an integrating power...
Detienne-Vernant [Masters of Truth in Ancient Greece] relate Peitho (persuasion) to Aletheia (truth).
The Dionysian archetype of the 'Invader', marching and rolling on like a "self-moving wheel", a 'clean' sweep is a con-Solid-ating power...

Heidegger wrote:
"On the one hand deinon (looming, stirring) means the terrible, but not in the sense of petty terrors. ...The deinon is the terrible in the sense of the overpowering sway which compels pan-ic fear, true anxiety as well as collected, silent awe that vibrates with its own rhythm. The violent, the overpowering is the essential character of the sway [of being] itself. ..." [IM 149-150]

That is,

Quote :
"Against this subjugation, and determining it in an originary way, however, is the overarching structure of dike, which Heidegger (abjuring the traditional German translation of dike as "justice") will translate as Fug or "fugal jointure", that overpowering structure of being that compels all beings to adapt to, fit in (einfugen), and comply with (sichfugen) the enjoining structure (das fugende Gefuge) of being. In this vision of being as a kind of organizing matrix that brings all beings together contrapuntally in a fugal structure, where opposition and conflict serve as unifying forces that allow divergences to converge even as they become mutually implicated in their difference, Heidegger will put forward his own vision of the polis as the site of openness for the contests, conflcits, antagonisms, and enjoining oppositions of the violence-doing of techne and the overpowering fugal jointure of dike." [Bambach, Heidegger's Roots]

The open-array as opposed to the closed resistance is the very form-at of the Dionysian: victory as only the clean sweep of victory.
In other words, it turns everything in its path along with it - this wheel leaves nothing unturned.

Quote :
"Many a shrewd one did I find: he veiled his countenance and made his water muddy that no one might see there through and there under. But precisely unto him came the shrewder distrusters and nutcrackers: precisely from him did they fish his best-concealed fish!
But the clear, the honest, the transparent - these are for me the wisest silent ones: in them, so profound is the depth that even the clearest water doth not - betray it. -"  [N., TSZ, On the Olive Mount]

Quote :
"That no one might see down into my depth and into mine ultimate will - for that purpose did I devise the long clear silence." [N.]

Quote :
"Impeccability is nothing else but the proper use of energy." [Castaneda, Don Juan]

Constant apollonian vigilance and watching from the turtle neck makes one paranoid and oblivious dionysian sweeps in its spreading itself thin makes one foolish,, and both are a drain.
The best formation is one that is hard enough to let itself be fluid enough to switch between the two models.
Either extreme is a nihilism, and also the real psychic leak.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:05 am

Part XII



Dionysos and Apollo cannot co/operate except on the edge that makes it possible. The 'edge is the center' of mediation, where each is under pressure to stand in its own immediacy. The edge that joins two things together and keeps them apart simultaneously is a middle, a centre, a nave. This '0', in our mind,

Quote :
"it is located in the very midst of these distinctions as the stuff from which these distinctions are made" - it is that determinative center which allows one to differentiate various poles, make valuations.
It is the structure of an edge holding the two at their extremes where they cannot be reconciled.
It is the name of the point where they nearly coincide.
That point or juncture where the sharpest tension is felt between such extremes that cannot be reconciled, inevitably has the structure of preserving value." [Zupancic, The Shortest Shadow]

The mercurial Odin on his horse Sleipnir with four legs in this world, and four in the other, appear out of "no-where"... again, a night-mare, a crisis, a sudden gap. Kerenyi adds this to the psychompic Hermes:

Kerenyi wrote:
"The primordial mediator and messenger moves between the absolute ‘yes,’ or, more correctly, between two ‘no’s’ that are lined up against each other, between two enemies, between woman and man. In this he stands on ground that is no ground, and there he creates the way. From out of a trackless world — unrestricted, flowing, ghostlike — he conjures up the new creation." [1976: 77]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

0 is a symbol; a symbolein is two halves held both Together-Apart at their most nuanced precision, all their immediacy.
A symbol fails to communicate if the halves dont close in on the jaws of the gap and out of it.
Chiron was a horror to his parents.

Plutonicisms at the cutting-edge of the revolving doors and the clashing rocks of Symplegades.

Till then, you are left with a dangerous riddle, such that the head and the body must come together.
Decapitation was the punishment in ancient I.E. cultures of failing to answer a riddle. It was a deadly initiation. Borrowing the head of the horse and wearing it, one intimated that they were the recipient of the knowledge to victory like the sun on the chariot rose after every death, and were thus 'healed'. That knowledge of the horse-head was called the Madhu-vidya or the Honey Wisdom.
That requires a different chapter in itself.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:18 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Dionysos and Apollo cannot co/operate except on the edge that makes it possible. The 'edge is the center' of mediation, where each is under pressure to stand in its own immediacy. The edge that joins two things together and keeps them apart simultaneously is a middle, a centre, a nave. This '0', in our mind,

Quote :
"it is located in the very midst of these distinctions as the stuff from which these distinctions are made" - it is that determinative center which allows one to differentiate various poles, make valuations.
It is the structure of an edge holding the two at their extremes where they cannot be reconciled.
It is the name of the point where they nearly coincide.
That point or juncture where the sharpest tension is felt between such extremes that cannot be reconciled, inevitably has the structure of preserving value." [Zupancic, The Shortest Shadow]

Right on.
Compare borders between great states, such as France and Germany. Their respective national values are most intense in the small border towns, there is the sense of urgency. For example, the Black Forest as the first German reality beyond the border -even the trees grow differently. The weather changes onc the border is crossed.

Last winter I spent a days driving across the Rhine from France into Germany and back again, over and over. I was finding my own center because of the intensifying difference between these two, he Dionysian heart of Europe and the pan-European man. The God Pan is our lord!

Europe will be made one by the love these two opposite bear one another; a shaming love to the slavish nationalist, an aspiring love to men like Goethe admiring Napoleon.

Quote :
The mercurial Odin on his horse Sleipnir with four legs in this world, and four in the other, appear out of "no-where"... again, a night-mare, a crisis, a sudden gap.

Indeed, Odin is mecurial. The Romans saw this and it is still evident, Odin the seeker, very irreverently put, the god of information.
Here Nordic myth supersedes Greek myth in their understanding of what a god is.

The Greek has to disavow his gods, like Socrates, to reason. But the man of Odin only imitates his God as well as he can, when he searches for knowledge of truth. And still, the Aesir are disavowed by fate - what does this mean? Exclusivity. Eternal gods are trivial gods. Just as Rome fell to Christ, so do real gods fall to other gods; because they are not for ever and everyone they are real, magical.

You had to be there.  An auspicious time. Auspices need a malefix to cut them open so they can bleed their nectar on the heads of those whose gods demand they look up when they 'pray'. ('ask' - very wrong; it's either give (word, speak) and direct or listen and become. )

The Greek mysteries are the murder of a god.
In the Germanic world, which was not sophisticated enough to have exclusive mysteries, the occult matter is dealt in the same blow as the fairy-tale; even gods aren't safe.

The Greek chronology places the danger in the past as the past, as Chronos father Time who was in the habit of cannibalizing his own, and the world is pushed forward where lesser beings like men take the blows of death. But Odin walks ahead in the battle in which all must die. This is why the commands loyalty and not fearful hate, like the Greeks cherished in their hearts against the gods whom they envied for all their splendors and whom they imagined cruel and either indifferent or unreasonably angry.


Prometheus Bound

New rulers wield the helm on Olympus,
and Zeus rules arbitrarily by new-made laws;
what once was mighty he now casts into oblivion.


Know yourself and change to a new pattern of behavior, because there is also a new autocrat in the gods' realm.

But Prometheus replies: I will endure my present fate, until the anger in Zeus's heart is assuaged.

And so he hangs at the abyss, as Odin hangs from the world-tree,
Prometheus suffers after having given knowledge, as Christ suffered after having taught, but Odin suffers in order to receive knowledge. An identity relatable to a human, a father who can teach by example.

Why do people believe in gods they can not imitate? Because they are lazy or because they shouldn't have gods at all. Only ambitious people have use of gods, in others the gods will turn on them every time they turn their head on the pillow.

*

The world was not created by a creature of the world. That is one thing we know intuitively. But Christianity challenges this intuition, and places the one creator inside the many worlds.

Some interesting chemistries began to work on man.
It was a time when it was not necessarily good to exist.
Whether existence was good or bad, this was being tested.

The operation is gradually appearing in the rear view mirror. We can  stay ahead of it, and move toward  a free horizon, enriched with knowledge bought us by 100 generations.  
Honor these fools, and be free of them.

Not to engage what has been left behind - the labyrinth holds no secrets but its exit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:25 pm

The second wind is strongly related to homecoming, in the literal as well as figurative sense. It is well know than as soon as the idea of home is relatable to the idea of proximity, the absolutely exhausted man who is returning from afar is suddenly infused with seemingly endless energy, able to walk on cheerfully until he arrives. It is knowledge that sustains our efforts. We can not act without suspecting an impact of the act, and if we can not act it is said that we have no energy. As soon as we suspect some positive result the energy is available to attain it. Strength sets goals? But goals awaken strength. The ultimate goal is the return to what one is. Move far away from what you are and this goal becomes available. Perhaps nothing engages as much energy as this form; Odysseus, who is related to Othala.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:30 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Dionysos and Apollo cannot co/operate except on the edge that makes it possible. The 'edge is the center' of mediation, where each is under pressure to stand in its own immediacy. The edge that joins two things together and keeps them apart simultaneously is a middle, a centre, a nave. This '0', in our mind,

Quote :
"it is located in the very midst of these distinctions as the stuff from which these distinctions are made" - it is that determinative center which allows one to differentiate various poles, make valuations.
It is the structure of an edge holding the two at their extremes where they cannot be reconciled.
It is the name of the point where they nearly coincide.
That point or juncture where the sharpest tension is felt between such extremes that cannot be reconciled, inevitably has the structure of preserving value." [Zupancic, The Shortest Shadow]

Right on.
Compare borders between great states, such as France and Germany. Their respective national values are most intense in the small border towns, there is the sense of urgency. For example, the Black Forest as the first German reality beyond the border -even the trees grow differently. The weather changes onc the border is crossed.

Yes, that's a neat example, as life is this very "vital"-politic.

The same behind the idea of the Hanged Man. At the edge of life, values rank themselves into priority, when the mediation through any fixed ground is taken away and one hears the immediate:

Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

"The Hanged Man speaks of the kind of clarity you have just before you are about to lose it all. You would suddenly know what was of true importance. The Hanged Man does not get grounded and balanced through putting his feet on the ground; instead he achieves it through putting his head towards the ground where he starts to listen to life itself."

Quote :
Last winter I spent a days driving across the Rhine from France into Germany and back again, over and over. I was finding my own center because of the intensifying difference between these two, he Dionysian heart of Europe and the pan-European man. The God Pan is our lord!

You seem now, like you found it...

I recently finished reading a couple of Indo-Israel scholars [David Shulman and Don Handelman] on the natural evolution between a landscape and the philosophical mood it shapes. How a landscape evolves, marked by its climate, soil, flora, fauna and therefore totemic worship over these sacred resources, and thus a landscape's deities.
An organic philosophy is a mood that comes with its own coat of arms, so to speak.

"for love of him
these conch-shell bangles slip
from my wasting hands"

...demarcates the soil that is eroded and thinned down by waters that leave back conch-shells echoing the din of the gulf from the rest of nature, in the lover's heart. On the other side of the delta,

The spotted dear becomes thoughts of restlessness sprouting one by one. The atmosphere is changed.

The distribution of the elements, animals, minerals, plants make perceptible, patterns that naturally accrue into borders and set their own adaptation into adaptive pressures of selecting vitalities.

Quote :
Europe will be made one by the love these two opposite bear one another; a shaming love to the slavish nationalist, an aspiring love to men like Goethe admiring Napoleon.

I agree, but while some say you come to love your father only when in loving your grandfather, to have bypassed nationalisms would have been like someone missing the experience of a journey on a long circuitous route for a leap. Heidegger said its only in loving Greece, he came to love Germany, but with N. it was the other way.
You cant make a rule out of this as both temperaments - the one who sees the larger pic. and makes that leap, and the one who sees the details and takes his own time to go through thoroughly from scratch - have each their own benefits.

Plus, the wars between philosophical schools, or between city-level warfares - sparta vs. athens - its the local level values that generated the agon for the very birth of a culture, of a Greece, of a discipline of living.
Evolution necessarily has to occur slowly. Even if an individual were prepared himself with the larger vision, to raise the rest along to the same height needs a steadying... a "mass" cannot make a "leap" before they are light enough for it. I think those nationalisms were reasonable from this pov. as much as I recognize denying them in the spirit of overcoming.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:34 pm

Black Panther wrote:

Quote :
The mercurial Odin on his horse Sleipnir with four legs in this world, and four in the other, appear out of "no-where"... again, a night-mare, a crisis, a sudden gap.

Indeed, Odin is mecurial. The Romans saw this and it is still evident, Odin the seeker, very irreverently put, the god of information.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] joins the dots.

Perpetual and I had this small exchange regarding the horse in the Bestiary thread:

Quote :

Nietzsche wrote:
"Not even all knowledge and all good will suffice for seeing the ultimate beauties of a work; it requires the rarest of lucky accidents for the clouds that veil the peaks to lift for us momentarily and for the sun to shine on them. Not only must we stand in just the right spot to see this, but our own soul, too, must itself have pulled the veil from its heights and must have been in need of some external expression and parable, as if it needed a hold in order to retain control of itself. But so rarely does all of this coincide..."

Beyond knowledge [snake] and good-will [eagle], one needs luck. Swiftness of lightning to quickly grasp what shows when the veils briefly open...

Nietzsche wrote:
"I approach deep problems such as I do cold baths: fast in, fast out.

That this is no way to get to the depths, to get deep  enough, is the superstition of those who fear water, the enemies of cold water; they speak without experience. Oh, the great cold makes one fast! And incidentally: does a matter stay unrecognized, not understood, merely because it has been touched in flight; is only glanced at, seen in a flash?

Does one absolutely have to sit firmly on it first? Have brooded on it as on an egg?  Diu noctuque incubando, as Newton said of himself? At least there are truths that are especially shy and ticklish and can't be caught except suddenly - that one must  surprise or leave alone." [JW, 381]

One needs to be a magic horse. A metaphor for the swift-footed inspiration;

Quote :
"Come, O Indra, with forceful speed to my soul-thoughts, O lord of the bright horses; hold firm the delight in the Soma-juice’ (I.3.6)." [RV, 1.3.6]

Sleipnir with 8 feet means being able to ride and conduct oneself zig-zag with one feet in the region of the snakes and one feet in the realm of the eagles...
Only the rider with the agility of the swift-footed horse can manage the 'magic' of metaphors and kennings and its incredible web of links without falling into the surreal or the hyperreal madness - dionysian or apollonian nihilism.

The horse-shoe in the shape of the Omega was considered among the pagans, a lucky talisman as a protection against "lightnings" and,

"The cup-like shape of the horse shoe is the perfect shape to hold in luck and make sure that it doesn't spill out".  

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

"And still o'er many a neighboring door
She saw the horse-shoe's curvèd charm." [Whittier, The Witch's Daughter]

"The horsepower of a storm..." [s: Perpetual]

The horse's 'whip'-crack then is also the feminine snake's 'wise'-crack about the advice Zarathustra receives.

The whip-crack is startling and such shock is a pause and a freezing, a space through which wisdom enters within a blink. Odin was called the Binder for freezing his enemies with swiftness that is his battle-magic.

Shocks are Plutonic.
They break open our unconscious and the repressed venom flows out or is flushed out in night-Mares. Interesting passage connects earth-quakes and "psyhic tremors" with demonic horses and Odin as a conductor:

Quote :
"The horse is one of the favourite forms under which "chthonic powers" manifest themselves. Horses are connected with both Hades and the "chthonic" Poseidon, that is Poseidon the Earthshaker, before he moved into the ocean (Malten 196). Death-demons are pictured riding or driving; they can snatch people and carry them off to their realm. (Odin/Wotan snatches people. There are also demonic horses which deliver their masters to the powers of death, as Pegasus did Bellerophontes (Malten 197). The divinity can ride the horse or be the horse, but "the death-horse is more primitive than the divinity." (Malten 208f). The horse can be psychopomp; stelae often show the dead man on horseback, and some of these at least must be, like the Scandinavian carvings showing the mounted hero being welcomed to Valhalla, showing the dead man riding into the au-dela (Malten 234f; Davidson 1993: 33). People sometimes appear after their deaths as ghost-horses; like the death-god, the dead can either ride or be the horse. "In the most ancient conception, both slayer and slain appear in the form of the ghostly horse" (Malten 235); in this the horse is like canis. Odin is indeed the Rider-God. His names are Atridr, "he who rides out to battle" and Fraridr, "Onward-rider" (Simek) or Swift-rider. But he is also Reidartyr, Chariot-god, reminding us that IE warriors and their gods were chariot-warriors before they were riders. Among the Scandinavian rock-carvings are depictions of cult processions with wagons, ships drawn on ledges, and ploughs. We know of a procession with a ship as part of the fertility cult of Nerthus on the Continent (Germania 40). Wheels representing the sun are transported on wagons; later these wheels seem to have been reinterpreted as Wheels of Fortune." [Kris Kershaw, The One-Eyed God: Odin and the Indo-Germanic Mannerbunde]

To the I.E.s, the horse in the wild-hunt symbolized the breaking-open of the earth and the release of the sun from its parting. The birth of hidden poetic wisdom, we call the black sun - illumination from sudden storms; compare:

Nietzsche wrote:
"Has anyone at the end of the nineteenth century a distinct conception of what poets of strong ages called inspiration?  If not, I will describe it.  If one had the slightest residue of superstition left in one, one would hardly be able to set aside the idea that one is merely incarnation, merely mouthpiece, merely medium of overwhelming forces.  The concept of revelation, in the sense that something suddenly, with unspeakable certainty and subtlety, becomes visible, audible, something that shakes and overturns one to the depths, simply describes the fact.  One hears, one does not seek; one takes, one does not ask who gives; a thought flashes up like lightning, with necessity, unfalteringly formed – I have never had any choice… The involuntary nature of image, of metaphor, is the most remarkable thing of all; one no longer has any idea what is image, what metaphor, everything presents itself as the readiest, the truest, the simplest means of expression.  This is my experience of inspiration; I do not doubt that one has to go back thousands of years to anyone who could say to me ‘it is mine also’." [JW]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Also, with the tremor of the ghost-horse or the phantom-horse:

Nietzsche wrote:
"If productive power has been blocked for a time and prevented from flowing out by an obstruction, there occurs in the end an effusion so sudden it appears that an immediate inspiration without any preliminary labour, that is to say a miracle, has taken place. This constitutes the familiar deception with whose continuance the interest of all artists is, as aforesaid, a little too much involved. The capital has only been accumulated, it did not fall from the sky all at once. Similar apparent inspiration is also to be found in other domains, for example in that of goodness, virtue, vice." [HATH, 155-56]

I would connect this further with the concept of greek "Thelgein" and *bewitchment* as a kind of metis; excellent book:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The furor of the storm-horse is a zig-zag, like metis.


Black Panther wrote:
Here Nordic myth supersedes Greek myth in their understanding of what a god is.

Dumezil shows the conception of god has a fairly uniform structure throughout all I.E. cultures. He argues that the first function sovereignty of the god was divided between two roles: contractual correctness  and magical majesty - law and magic. Zeus was a coming together of Jupiter Feretrius/Stator [magic] and Jupiter Fides [Dius Fidius / law]; the former taking on the charcateristics of Odin.

The similarity in the mutilations of Odin [magical law] and Tyr [contractual law] is evidence that:

Dumezil wrote:
"Odhinn and Tyr are not just the Scandinavian heirs of the magician sovereign and the jurist sovereign. They are also the one-eyed god and the one-handed god. Their disabilities form a couple, as do their function... The two mutilations, clearly symbolic, first create and later manifest the lasting quality of each of the gods, the paralyzing visionary and the chief of legal procedure. They are the palpable expression of the theologeme that is the basis of the coexistence of the two highest gods, namely that the sovereign administration of the world is divided into two great provinces, that of inspiration and prestige, that of contract and chicanery, in other words, magic and law.

All I wished to establish is that, like Romulus and Numa, the two gods peculiar to them, Jupiter Stator (or Feretrius) and Fides stand in an antithetical opposition (whether juridical or religious), to one another. The gods, like the kings, stand opposed as the "Terrible" and the "Ordered," the "Violent" and the "Correct," the "Magician" and the "Jurist," the Lupercus and the flamen. They also stand opposed like Varuna and Mitra, with whom there is an even more exact correspondence with the Roman couple.

Thus, it is not impossible that, from the very earliest times, one of the two magico-religious "systems" that served to explain and also to govern the universe (Mitra, Manu; Fides-Terminus, Numa) had oriented men's minds toward nonbloody forms of worship, while the other "system" (Varuna, Jupiter) had required the sacrifice of living beings, of animals or, occasionally, men.

A terrible law and a flexible law, a magic law and a trusting law. This would imply a particular Roman utili- zation, with the division occurring between two possible types of social relation, of the dualist system that occurs in Vedic India with no (apparent) distinction in its social application, but with a divi- sion between the two possible attitudes of the debtor (Mitra protecting the good debtor who repays, Varuna seizing the bad debtor)." [Mitra and Varuna]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:39 pm

Black Panther wrote:
The Greek has to disavow his gods, like Socrates, to reason. But the man of Odin only imitates his God as well as he can, when he searches for knowledge of truth. And still, the Aesir are disavowed by fate - what does this mean? Exclusivity. Eternal gods are trivial gods. Just as Rome fell to Christ, so do real gods fall to other gods; because they are not for ever and everyone they are real, magical.

Between law and norm/value:

Quote :
"Zarathustra is first and foremost a reformer and his work should be understood most immediately and technically as reformist. First of all, and most explicitly, Nietzsche’s concern, when it comes to law, is with over- turning the tradition, both the norm and the law of law. In this respect he is quite explicit: “the creator, hate they most, him who breaketh the tables and old values, the breaker, — him they call the law-breaker.” The Judaeo-Christian roots of this image of law and its destruction were very familiar to Nietzsche. The law and commandments came historically in the form of an image, a set of tables containing a permanent writing that the prophet brought down from above. Paradoxically the tables were immediately broken and then inscribed again and both moments deserve attention.

Within the Western tradition, it is not enough for the law to be written, it has to be written and then written again so as to engender an iconic status or a priority of the one law over the many that it displaces. Thus when Moses is initially confronted with the idols or images of other Gods that have been made during his absence he smashes the tables, punishes the populace, and returns to the mountain to collect the law again. It is the inscription of the second set of commandments that establishes the permanent writing, the licit image, or iconic law. In light of such complexity of inscription, the task of Nietzsche’s lawbreaker is a dual one. Breaking the tables would seem simply to incite the inscription of new and more permanent commandments. The reformer, as we will see, thus has to con- tinue breaking the tables because it is the iconic status of the written law that has to be overturned and not simply its mediate manifestation.

This is why Nietzsche carefully privileges the positing of values (Wert setzen) over the positing of law (Gesetz setzen). Law writing is necessarily an exercise in calculative reason, and hence cannot do justice to justice, as Derrida would put it. Nietzsche, in the Genealogy of Morals, has this to say: “Setting prices, determining values, contriving equivalences, exchanging — these preoccupied the earliest thinking of man to so great an extent that in a certain sense they constitute thinking as such . . . here likewise, we may suppose, did human pride . . . have its first beginnings.”

What is important for Nietzsche, in politics, in philosophy, is an overturning of prior and somnolent forms. What is revolutionary is not the writing of new laws and the setting of new tariffs, but rather the spirit of creativity that can be expressed in tablet-breaking but that exceeds and even undermines any positive law. The space of the creator and of writing as a transitive and singular act lies in the space between the breaking of the tables and the inscription of a new table of commandments. It is a space of suspension of law, a before the law that Nietzsche coins the half-written.

...The first incipit or criterion of reform is that of overturning the old tables, of destroying the idols of the moral law. It is the image of the law, the law as tradition and truth, the law as nature or divine mystery, the twice written law that needs to be broken. This overturning, however, is neither merely destructive nor in any melancholic sense nihilistic. Its purpose is expressly creative. It aims to inscribe and hold open the space of creativity and hence also the possibility and unpredictability of thought: “break up for me, O my brethren, break up also that new table.” This is not simply a desire to invert, to overturn and substitute the mirror image or inverse form, but rather a clearing of the ground, a smashing of prejudices, the expression of a desire to begin, which is always also a beginning again.
The cornerstone is not to confuse power with representations of power. It is not the will that desires power, but power that wills becoming." [Peter Goodrich, Nietzsche and Legal theory]


It is the "image" of the law that needs to be broken, not the law per se. This is overturning the Platonic tradition where the image or the idea/l is supreme. N. does not call for the destruction of zeus, but the revaluation of A zeus. Even in his play on Prometheus he'd sketched out, he sees the necessity of Prometheus abiding to Zeus.
Not the destruction of law, but the revaluation of "norms". He was no postmodernist.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:58 pm

Black Panther wrote:
You had to be there.  An auspicious time. Auspices need a malefix to cut them open so they can bleed their nectar on the heads of those whose gods demand they look up when they 'pray'. ('ask' - very wrong; it's either give (word, speak) and direct or listen and become. )

I wish; your saying that means much, thank you. I was carrying this heavy heart for a while, I'm pleased that you're here.

Black Panther wrote:
The Greek mysteries are the murder of a god.
In the Germanic world, which was not sophisticated enough to have exclusive mysteries, the occult matter is dealt in the same blow as the fairy-tale; even gods aren't safe.

The Greek chronology places the danger in the past as the past, as Chronos father Time who was in the habit of cannibalizing his own, and the world is pushed forward where lesser beings like men take the blows of death. But Odin walks ahead in the battle in which all must die. This is why the commands loyalty and not fearful hate, like the Greeks cherished in their hearts against the gods whom they envied for all their splendors and whom they imagined cruel and either indifferent or unreasonably angry.

Yes, but understand why.

The Greek agricultural advance likened the harvest of the corn to the annual death of the vegetation god that the king embodied. Time ripens and time devours. The first harvest of the "new born", the first sacrifice was given to the lord of the golden age. Agriculture bonded man to time, to cycles. One seed that goes under gives birth to a plant or a tree that gives birth to many seeds. In essence, the retention of sovereignty as long as possible, as is typical of the Greek gods, is the kind of protraction that gives birth to a civilization... to hold a rite, a ritual, a discipline, a culture as long as possible. The longest retention [Freud reads repression] of culture flowers into a civilization.

The Germanics were a moving, nomadic warband. The sacrificial pit was the battle-ground, and the best of the bravest sacrificed himself to fight alongside their warlord.
This is why you had said, if you remember that Germany could not concretize any eternal principles like Greece had, and I'd said, this is why germany is the very "vs.", the very turning that is standard-selecting.

Although Burkert writes this of Greece, it applies more so to Germany:

Burkert wrote:
"As ethology has shown, a sense of community arises from collective aggression. A community bound by oaths is united in the "sacred shiver" of awe and enthusiasm - the relic of an aggressive reflex that made the hairs bristle - in a feeling of strength and readiness. Thus must then be released in an "act": the sacrificial ritual provides the occasion for killing and bloodshed. Whether in Israel, Greece, or Rome, no agreement, no contract, no alliance can be made without sacrifice. And, in the language of the oath, the object of aggression that is to be "struck" and "cut" becomes virtually identical with the covenant itself: foedus ferire.
The closer the bond, the more gruesome the ritual." [Homo Necans]

There the corn was cut, and here the oath.

The difference you point out, and which I agree with, is even reflected in the character of their laws. I think I've quoted this to you before, but in any case, Roman Imperialism was founded on the basis of Divine Right of Kings as the embodiment of 'God', the German Barbarians posited an independent Law abstracted from *both the Chief as well his subjects. The Law was the 'Fuhrer', a *neutral domain to which the Chief as well as his subjects faithfully observed. The Roman stress was on Majesty as definitive of law, while the Germanic stress was on Fidelity as definitive of law.
(Let me know if you want to read the original excerpt.)

Have you heard of the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]?

CW started a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on it, which I haven't looked into yet.


Black Panther wrote:
Know yourself and change to a new pattern of behavior, because there is also a new autocrat in the gods' realm.

But Prometheus replies: I will endure my present fate, until the anger in Zeus's heart is assuaged.

And so he hangs at the abyss, as Odin hangs from the world-tree,
Prometheus suffers after having given knowledge, as Christ suffered after having taught

As per theosophy, Prometheus is punished for descending into materiality and throwing "pearls to swines" from a higher Zeus' point of view. In Hesiod and other versions, Prometheus therefore accepts the penalty.
N. then differentiates bet. Prometheus and Christ, the concept of crime and sin. The solver of the riddle, must face the gravity of the solution and live out this solution. Wisdom comes with a sacrifice. Oedipus, Prometheus, etc. "are" the double edge of nature. A gap is joined by means of a something, of an offering, of a sacrifice. The solver of the riddle cannot but be suspended to join the dots. He is the connector.
So we see the following:

Greco-Roman: Sacrificiant as religion [Zeus/Jupiter]

J.-Xt.: Sacrificed as religion [Christ]

Celto-Germanic: Sacrificer as religion [Wotan/Odin]

Indo-Iran: Sacrifice as religion [Brahman]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:00 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Odin suffers in order to receive knowledge. An identity relatable to a human, a father who can teach by example.

I have to point out something here reg. the "one-eye".

Kris Kershaw wrote:
"The Norse god Odin's missing eye is a feature which is firmly established in the vocabulary of the Viking poets; but the poetic language also contains numerous Odin by-names which call him "the Blind One," or the like, and Odin is nowhere depicted as blind. Terms for "blind" and "one-eyed" easily fall together, but Odin is not consistently one-eyed, either. That Odin's one eye was not, originally, a physical feature, but rather goes back to a ritual of the Indo-European cultic warrior brotherhoods (Mannerbunde) over which Odin, or analogous gods, presided."
[The One-eyed God]

In the ancient Indian dice game played with the nuts of the Terminalia Belerica tree, a player began taking nuts away by fours. At the end there could be four, three, two, or one nut left - that is krta, treta, dvapara, or kali named after the 4 Hesiodic ages.

Krta - the golden age of godly truth and the dharma bull has four legs.
Treta - the silver age of heroes and the dharma bull has three legs.
Dvapara - the bronze age of warriors and the dharma bull has two legs.
Kali - the iron age of Swindlers and the dharma bull stands on one leg.

Kershaw wrote:
"In the dice game, if there were four nuts left in the end, it was krta, and the four could be removed away with no nuts remaining and the player would have won, "collected krta" - he was the best.

If there was one nut left had had lost, and in a profane game he could lose everything from his house, wealth, and his own self and end up as a bondservant. This sole remaining nut was Kali. Personified, he is one-eyed, ekasha. There is a vast well of symbolism involving dogs, blindness, one-eyedness, darkness, blackness, and death.

The distinguishing mark of the death-boding dog was its one-eye. Among the Greeks Kyne was the worst throw. In Latin the worst throw was canis or canicula. According to Schlerath, among the Indo-Europeans the worst throw in the originally cultic dice game was called 'Dog', which in fact means 'Death'. Whoever had the 'dog' outcome, turned into Rudra, the Dog, the Leader of the Wild Host. When a player was left with one nut, Kali entered him and he turned into Kali, the Dog in the Wilderness - the rabid Berserker full of lyssa.

In old Norse and modern Scandinavian languages, as in German, the pips on the dice are "eyes". And this is why Odin, the wild necromancer god of the North, is one-eyed. The warband or the Mannerbunde was an army of dice where game originally meant sacrifice. Hence "big game Hunting".  The leader is chosen by the one-eye result, and the one-eyed god enters into him: he becomes the one-eyed god. The ritual dice game was to choose a leader, who is not the winner but the loser - who becomes the dog, who becomes the mad god, who becomes Death, and withdrawn from the land of the living. He is the ex-static leader.

Odin and Rudra were not "really" one-eyed, but typically Indo-European, a conventional epithet of choosing a leader.

Fearsome dogs are psychopompoi. Canis is a greedy devourer, like Death is the great devourer, the Eater of flesh. It cannot be seen. The Wolf-god is the veiled deity who bestows poetic vision and transfixes the enemy army. He is the madness of the poet and the seer, as well as the ecstatic warrior in cultic union with his dead ancestors." [The One-eyed God]

Hades is the unseen and likewise Odin with the broad-brimmed hat and robin-Hood and his band of 'thieves'.
In Ireland, the cu glas or the 'grey dog', a circumlocution for wolf - was the man banished from his own people. Exiled, the wolf has forfeited his rights and could be killed without penalty. He was in effect, a Criminal, Vargr. Slavic epics attributed the Criminal as the hero, as wuk [wolf]... and in Russian Volx, Germanic Volk... but also as the Wurger - the strangler who is the quintessential killer dining on death and flesh and cannibalism.
He is the wanderer, the guest, and always mysterious. The 'guest' in its ancient connotation also meant enemy.

The lone wolf is the ultimate Outsider.

The 'loser' was the under-Dog - literally in the sense of the death-dog under the world.
Of hades.

The One-eyed Leader came as death and hunger upon others. The dharma with just one leg left, the One-eyed Ace was the Last, 'the loser', the "Siren", "Alarm" to the world, showing the precariousness of Order.

Sloterdijk wrote:
"This choice of name plays with the insight that sirens can trigger archaic feelings among those who hear them.

It is, incidentally, one of the typical self-revelations of the twentieth century - and one of its characteristic cynicisms - that it referred to the wailing machines on factory roofs, and in wartime also the alarm systems that spread panic in cities being attacked from the air, as "sirens".
The most open form of listening was thus betrayed to terror, as if the subject were only close to its truth when running to save itself. At the same time, this renaming of the siren voice inappropriately coarsens it, instrumentalizing it for the most brutal mass signals." [Spheres: Bubbles]

Terror, panic, rabidity, battle-madness, ecstatic rage: lyssa, were vision-"stretchers", to swell with life.
The lone-wolf full of lyssa is Spengler's 'Last man standing' noted of the Roman soldier - of Rome founded by a she-wolf, the extended parlance of which was also the "whore" - out-sider/ex+stasis. Ecstasy of vision.

"Hashish as a hunting dog . . . It Sees quicker than we do." [Henri Michaux, Light Through Darkness]

Veracity is a voracity of the de-Vouring wolf. The siren-alarm goes ahead of the rest, and de-Monster-ates the frailty of order in the world, the signs of the time "out of joint".  
The link between the Wild hunt of the phantom-dead and the phantasm of Derrida's spectre still lingers. And speaks of an "Hauntology" of modernity's melancholia and its dis/ease with death:

Derrida wrote:
"What seems almost impossible is to speak always of the specter, to speak to the specter, to speak with it, therefore especially to make or to let a spirit speak. And the thing seems even more difficult for a reader, an expert, a professor, an interpreter, in short, for what Marcellus calls a "scholar." Perhaps for a spectator in general. Finally, the last one to whom a specter can appear, address itself, or pay attention is a spectator as such. At the theater or school." [Spectre]

Odin's spectre always appearing at junctions where fates are decided.

The dharma bull standing on its last leg precariously holds the dissolution of borders,, where the wolf on the inside, is the wolf of chaos threatening on the outside. Odin with his two wolves maintaining order with the sun and the moon, must also face the apocalyptic wolf of chaos Fenrir, that tries to swallow the last light...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What threatens to swallow order is not just at the macrocosmic scale, but also the inner microcosm; the subconscious that looms and threatens to dissolve borders...
The under-dog must be the one that knows how to throw off scents from the best bloodhounds, by diverting them right towards oneself...
In ancient times, "the dog" was the worst throw in dice (attested in Greek, Latin, and Sanskrit, where the word for "the lucky player" was literally "the dog-killer"), which plausibly explains the Greek word for "danger," kindynas, which appears to be "play the dog."

Death is voracious.
The Wild Hunter kills the Hunger with game.

He "plays the dog".


Black Panther wrote:
Why do people believe in gods they can not imitate? Because they are lazy or because they shouldn't have gods at all. Only ambitious people have use of gods, in others the gods will turn on them every time they turn their head on the pillow.

Yes, abs.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:05 pm

Black Panther wrote:
The world was not created by a creature of the world. That is one thing we know intuitively. But Christianity challenges this intuition, and places the one creator inside the many worlds.

Some interesting chemistries began to work on man.
It was a time when it was not necessarily good to exist.
Whether existence was good or bad, this was being tested.

The operation is gradually appearing in the rear view mirror. We can  stay ahead of it, and move toward  a free horizon, enriched with knowledge bought us by 100 generations.  
Honor these fools, and be free of them.

Not to engage what has been left behind - the labyrinth holds no secrets but its exit.

Labyrinths began as dances where the centre couldn't be identified... should not be identifiable.
Dancing as a one-ness, a singular becoming.

The difference between a maze and a labyrinth is, in the former, it has an exit in addition to the entrance, and in the latter, the entrance is the exit... you have to come back full circle to the centre, descend to the very heart of it to come out of it...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Why Dionysos says, "I am what returns again and again..."

The exit out the labyrinth only stretches the labyrinth.

Nietzsche wrote:
"That the destruction of an illusion does not produce truth but only one more piece of ignorance, an extension of our "empty space," an increase of our "desert"..." [WTP, 603]

Jung wrote:
"My soul leads me into the desert, into the desert of my own self." [Liber Novus]

However, from a 3D, the latter is like a pyramid. The deeper the labyrinth, the gap/Hades you step into, the more you may a-spire - aspire and higher the rebirth...  
"Greatness and terribleness go together." [WTP]
(The ritual of circumambulation around the sacred sanctum [womb or adyton, the deepest cave of the heart] was partly for this reason.)

The Stirnerite individual can break the circuit and exit out. He belongs to the maze.

But the grander individual, who as "the very chain of life"... ascends the becoming of the entire organic past.

How is it possible to move forward without leaving anything behind?
Internet calls them "cookies".

Nietzsche wrote:
"I have no memory of ever having made an effort-you will not detect any trace of struggle in my life, I am the opposite of a heroic nature. To "will" anything, to "strive" after anything, to have a "goal," a "wish" in mind­ I have never experienced this. Right now I am still looking out over my future-an immense future!-as if it were a calm sea: there is not a ripple of longing. I do not have the slightest wish for anything to be different from how it is; I do not want to become anything other than what I am. But this is how my life has always been."

These pathways stall psychic leaks... energy dissisipated in moving in the same circle.

Modernity is the erasure of these "cookies", leading to psychic leaks and depletions.
In other words, man needs to pay more to retrieve the data on the path he frequented.
Leaving the past itself behind is the easiest solution, and exactly what modernity pushes you to do.

How and where and why these depletions occur... has been Satyr's work.

You had said,

Quote :
"We must consider the future as decisive for all our evaluations - and not seek the laws of our actions behind us!" - N

Herein man is different from ape; and to overcome what is to be overcome in man he must completely embrace that the future commands him; that is, the legislating drives of the strong must take the plunge into the future without looking back; the meaning of the myth of the labyrinth. Now that the world has been unraveled and its center has been found in the will to power, the way back to life (philosophy after Socrates has been the quest for the unreal which had to justify the real, amounting in N's discovery of the unreal as the real, the justification being in matters of inferior and superior quality rather than truth or untruth) means first to make a turn into the opposite direction; where the genealogy of morals has led us to the center, the genesis of values moves from the center outward.
'Luck' or 'genius' is a matter of protocol, not accident; there is the first Law of the Future.


I definitely agree, and esp. with your last line.

In context, how N. meant it, to be clear:

Nietzsche wrote:
"I believe I have guessed some of the things in the soul of the highest man; perhaps anyone who unriddles him must perish; but whoever has seen him must help to make him possible.
Fundamental thought: we must consider the future as decisive for all our evaluations-and not seek the laws of our actions behind us!

"Not "mankind" but overman is the goal!" [WTP, 1000, 1001]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Superabundant force in spirituality, setting itself new goals; by no means merely commanding and leading on behalf of the lower world or the preservation of the organism, the "individual."

We are more than the individuals: we are the whole chain as well, with the tasks of all the futures of that chain." [WTP, 687]


What we leave behind, keeping the future in view, is the politics of the maze and all the past "amazement" that paralyzes, in the above sense.

Amaze:

Quote :
"amasian "stupefy, make crazy, 1590s, "mental stupefaction,"
Meaning "overwhelming wonder" is c. 1600.
c. 1300, "delusion, bewilderment" (also as a verb, "stupefy, daze"), possibly from Old English *mæs, which is suggested by the compound amasod "amazed" and verb amasian "to confound, confuse" (see amaze). Perhaps related to Norwegian dialectal mas "exhausting labor," Swedish masa "to be slow or sluggish."
That of "arrange in a zig-zag pattern" is from 1856. Dutch staggelen "to stagger," German staggeln "to stammer." Transitive sense of "bewilder, amaze" first recorded 1550s."

To stammer [maze] and to utter [labyrinth] can be seen with nuance.
The labyrinth, of course was connected to nine-nights or nine-months of birth and rebirth rituals; 9 from out of the womb-navel 0 to 1.

The end is the beginning is the end is the...

In Vedic rites, there is a sacrifice of waters one offers to the sun three times of the day - dawn, noon, dusk. These are the "gaps", the crisis points,  and to hold together the riddle of yesterday with today, and today with tomorrow, one gave energy to the sun by performing "sandhya", meaning "union", or more specifically the union or junctions of day and night which takes place in the morning or evening twilight. In addition to dawn and dusk, noon is considered the third juncture of the day. In giving waters at these junctures, in sacrificing oneself [giving of one's water], one reached the sun in uniting these gaps and holding the past and future together in onself. The ritual stabilized the fragmentation of days, of life falling apart.

The end is the beginning is the end is the... - the moving wheel, cakra of life.

To live to a 100 with generations living to a 100 and their generations living to a 100, keeping life ever united was the grand triumph.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


Last edited by Lyssa on Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:20 pm

Black Panther wrote:
The second wind is strongly related to homecoming, in the literal as well as figurative sense. It is well know than as soon as the idea of home is relatable to the idea of proximity, the absolutely exhausted man who is returning from afar is suddenly infused with seemingly endless energy, able to walk on cheerfully until he arrives. It is knowledge that sustains our efforts. We can not act without suspecting an impact of the act, and if we can not act it is said that we have no energy. As soon as we suspect some positive result the energy is available to attain it. Strength sets goals? But goals awaken strength. The ultimate goal is the return to what one is. Move far away from what you are and this goal becomes available. Perhaps nothing engages as much energy as this form; Odysseus, who is related to Othala.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Really good!, and we may say the Uruz then, is the pride of the past; beautiful horns were trophies of the valourous hunt. Othala or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is care for the whole ecology.

All my notes on the runes among other things got lost when my comp. crashed. I haven't had the time to rethink them again. I'll add to it when I can.


Swain Wodening wrote:
"The Elder Heathens had more than one concept of what was holy and sacred; in truth, they had two separate concepts. The readily familiar is OE hálig (OFris. hélich; OS hélag; OHG heilag; ON heilagR; Gothic hailags), our word holy. The other concept after nearly twelve hundred years of Christianity has been largely lost to us, but when looked at from a Heathen context is easily understood. It is one of separateness, otherworldliness, and is represented by Old English wíh (ON vé, OHG wíh) "religious site." Both hálig and wíh can be represented by the Latin words sanctus (Greek agios) and sacer (Greek hieros) respectively.


The concept of something that must remain whole or healthy must be a very old concept. Etymologically, Latin sanctus is related to Old English Gesund (High German gesund) as in "healthy, in good condition," just as our word "holy" is related to other Indo-European words for health. The concept of "health and wholeness" was widely used in the Germanic tongues, and even then seemed to be the more important of the two concepts of the holy and the sacred. Hálig and the words immediately related to it were used in a variety of ways, amongst which were Old English hálsian (ON heilla) "to invoke spirits," not to mention our words health, hale, whole, and hail. All of these words revolve around the concept of health and wholeness, and the ability of healing. It was therefore a quite attractive term to the ancient Heathens, and was thus widely applied to the realm of Man.


Unlike hálig, wíh and its proto-Germanic ancestor *wíh- were applied more to the realm of the Gods. Proto-Germanic *wíh- comes from IE *vík- "to separate," and has a cognate in Latin vic- as in victima "sacrifice." As an adjectival prefix it survives today in German Weihnacten "the sacred nights" used of the Yule season. Formerly, however, *wíh- and the words derived from it saw a variety of uses all revolving around that which is separate from the everyday. Such terms as Old English wíh (ON ve; OHG wíh) "sacred site;" weoh "idol;" and wíhian (ON vigja) "to consecrate" saw fairly extensive use at one time. It was largely applied to things that were seen as "otherworldly;" and, even more so than the enclosures of Mankind; must remain separate from the "wilds" around them. The term was applied to words for cultic centers, temple sites, idols, and grave mounds, the very symbols of godly order as opposed to the "wilds" outside. This can especially be seen in Old Norse Véar, a general term for the gods. Anything that was *wíh- was something that was, at least partially, in the realm of the gods, separate from all else. An ealh (OE "temple") was therefore *wíh-, as was a friðgeard (OE "cultic site, vé), thus proto-Germanic *wíh- came to mean such sacred sites. With wíh-, we are seeing the ultimate opposition of innangarðs versus úttangarðs, which is the enclosure of the gods versus the "wilds," all that lies beyond the enclosure of Mankind. Whereas hallowing something makes it whole, *wíh-ing something makes it separate from the ordinary (places it in the realm of the gods), and therefore gives it something of the Gods' power (protection from the "wilds").


A term that may be a combination of the concepts of hálig and wíh appears on the Gothic ring of Pietroassa, at the end of a runic inscription; wíhailag would appear to be synonymous with the Latin term sacrosanct, "that which is whole and separate from the ordinary." Another similar term appears in Old Norse vé heilakt "sacrosanct," as well as in Old English sundorhálga "saint." While sundorhálga may have been a creation of the Christian missionaries, it could just as well been a term used to replace a more familiar though Heathen term. The fact that Old English sundor- appears in the place of wíh- indicates it may have been a substitution of a more acceptable Christian term for one with strong Heathen connotations.


What can be drawn from these concepts of the holy and the sacred is that while the concept of "health/wholeness," was represented by the term hálig for both Man and Gods, *wíh- represented yet another concept, that of "separateness, otherworldliness." This "separateness" or "otherworldliness" would be the divine forces themselves, the gods, and the powers of their realm. Anything that was *wíh- was endowed with the qualities of the gods and their realm, it contained their m‘Gen. This concept can be difficult to understand at times, but per-haps it is best not to try to understand it, but realize that if something is *wíh- it has qualities of the gods' realms, and carries with it powers that leave Man in awe. It can be seen in what Tacitus had to say about the drowning of the slaves who washed the goddess Nerthus' cart.


There is a fear of the arcane attached to this custom for there is a reverence sprung from ignorance about that which is seen only by men who die for having done so.


The slaves may have had to die because they had touched something of the godly realm, and therefore may have ceased to be of this realm. The kindest thing to do then, would have been to send them to the realm of the gods. This type of action is reflected in the Latin term victima "sacrifice," a term which shares etymological origins with the Heathen term *wih-. This type of religious awe can be seen elsewhere, as in Tacitus' tale of the grove in which the Semnones worshipped a god they believed ruled all. To enter the grove a Semnone had to be bound with rope, and if he fell, he could not stand up, but had to roll out of the grove.


The concept of *wíh- forms part of a greater Heathen perception of reality, one which is best defined by Kirsten Hastrup in Culture and Society in Medi‘val Iceland.


When we turn to the layout of immediate space, it appears that the most significant distinction pertaining to the spacial arrangement of the farmstead was inni:úti ("inside:outside"). The borderline between the farmstead as centre and the world outside as periphery was drawn along the fence that surrounded the farm. The opposition between innangarðs and útangarðs ("inside" and "outside fence" respectively) had important socio-legal implications.


These implications were applied to more than the simple farmsteads of the Icelandic farmer, and can help us better understand the concept of *wíh-. But before we can fully understand the concept of *wíh-, that which is a part of the gods' realms, we must first look at how the ancient Heathens viewed their own socio-cultural order, and how that understanding of themselves next ended to their understanding of the other nine realms.
The concept of *wíh- "that which is a part of the gods' realms" was related to other concepts revolving around how the ancient Heathens viewed society and the law. Hastrup in her book addresses this concept of "separateness" between that of a husbandman's farm and the wild lands outside it and expands this explanation to Heathen society itself.


The important point is that in our period a structural and semantic opposition was operative between "inside" and "outside" the society-as-law, allowing for a merging of different kinds of beings in the conceptual "wild." This anti-social space was inhabited by a whole range of spirits...landsvættir "spirits of the land," huldufolk "hidden people," jötnar "giants," trölls "trolls," and álfar "elves"...all of them belonged to the "wild" and it was partly against them that one had to defend ones-self... In this way the secure, well-known and personal innangards was symbolically separated from the dangerous unknown and nonhuman wild space outside the fence, útangards.


As Heathen familiar with our own cosmology, we know this paradigm not to be entirely correct. In truth, what the ancient Heathens truly saw was a series of enclosures comprising even larger enclosures. Thus individuals comprised the enclosure of a farmstead, several farmsteads com-prised a godord and all the godhords, the Icelandic state. In most ancient times, individuals made up families, families made up clans or kindreds, clans or kindreds made up tribes, the tribes made up Middangeard. Middangeard and the other eight abodes made up the multiverse and were held in the world tree Yggdrasil. Hastrup points out later in her book:


Horizontally the cosmos was divided into Míðgarð and ÚtgardR. Míðgarð was the central space..inhabited by men (and gods), while ÚtgardR was found outsidethe fence .


This view of the universe as a series of enclosures governed nearly every socio-political factor of an ancient tribesman's life and extended beyond a socio-political philosophy into the very theology of ancient Heathenry. At the base of all of these enclosures was the individual. An individual was part of a mægd "a family" and as an individual held certain responsibilities towards that family. He or she was expected to contribute to wergeld should another family member commit a crime, avenge any fellow family members wronged, defend the family's enclosures from encroachment, and generally contribute to the common good of the family. As an individual he or she possessed mæen, his or her own spiritual energy, and a fetch inherited from some ancestor. Individuals determined their own Wyrd through their own actions, each action resulting in an appropriate outcome according to a personal law that individual had laid down throughout his or her life time. All of an individual's actions had to be in keeping with that which is good. That which is good was determined by the tribe as a whole, and generally came down to "that which did not harm the tribe or one of its individuals," but actively contributed to the tribe as a whole. The word good, which has cognates in every Germanic tongue, derives from Old English gód which in turn derived from proto-Germanic *gad- "to unite, bring together." It is related to the word gather and referred to the collectiveness of the family and tribe.


Individuals are rarely treated as being solely responsible for their deeds in the ancient law codes. According to Bill Griffiths, "Compensation itself would be collectable and payable to a kin-group rather than an individual, suggesting communal responsibility." In time, an individual's lord or guild would be held responsible (notably after the Conversion when Heathen custom was dying), but in the earliest times it was the family or kindred that was responsible for the individual's actions. The mægd was the institution that enforced the law for its members. Should a mægd fail in preventing a member from committing a crime, it was then held responsible for making compensation to the victim's family. If the mægd held that their family member was innocent, they could then take the matter to thing, or fight the ensuing blood feud. Even should the culprit of the crime flee, the family was still responsible for half the victim's wergeld under some Anglo-Saxon law codes.


A notable absence in the ancient law codes are laws dealing with crimes within a kindred. These crimes were dealt with by the mægd itself without outside interference. This was because the mægd formed a legal unit in and of its self. A glance at the Icelandic sagas will quickly reveal the strength of the family in this respect. The strength of the family as a legal unit also extended into the spiritual realm. Just as the individual possesses a fetch, the family possesses a kin-fetch called in Old Icelandic the kinfylgja, and as an individual possesses mægen, so too does a mægd. Similarly the collective actions of a family comprised that family's wyrd. Families were the most important enclosure within a tribe. While within Anglo-Saxon England there were Hundred courts, and Iceland, the Godords, that came between the families and the tribal assembly itself, it was the family that wielded the most power.


While families were the principle enforcers of the law, they were not its creators. In a metaphysical sense, every individual lays down law as personal wyrd, as does every family. But the laws that governed individuals' behavior were generally decided upon by the tribe as a whole in various mæþels and things. The þéod or tribe was the enclosure, the innangards. The law created by the þéod was customary in nature. The tribal assemblies did not "make laws" so much as rule on how existing customs or traditions would apply to a given situation (for example the dispute between two families over a boundary). The customs or traditions of a þéod were considered its wyrd, its doom, the actions that as a collective whole the þéod had laid down in the Well of Wyrd. Kirsten Hastrup maintains that "In Iceland 'the social' was coterminous with 'the law'...it was eloquently expressed in the notion of vr lög ('our law'). By logical inference 'the wild'...was coterminous with 'non-law.'" This philosophy was expressed when the Heathens and Christians in Iceland declared themselves ýr lögum "out of law" with each other at the Icelandic Althing of 1000 CE.18 Ancient Germanic law was not connected to political boundaries as modern law is now, it was by tribal membership, by blood. That is, an ancient Jute would only be tried under Jutish law, not by the law of the þéod he had committed his or her crime in. The tribe was the law, was that which was good, was the innangard, and all outsidethe tribe was útangards for all practical purposes. The tribe as an innangard served as "contained space" for deeds to be done. It is the sort of contained space Bauschatz is talking about in his book the The Well and the Tree:


For the Germanic peoples, space as it is encountered and perceived in the created worlds of men and other beings, exists, to any significant degree only as a location or container for the occurrence of action...The container is action, whether of individual men, of men acting in consort or in opposition, of men and monsters, or whatever. In all cases, immediate actions are discontinuous and separable deriving power and structure from the past.


These deeds done within the innangard of the tribe by its tribesmen are its law, its orlay. A þéod is no different than a mægd or an individual in that it too lays down its own wyrd in the Well of Wyrd. This wyrd or doom is the law of the tribe. Just as there are spiritual correspondences between the individual and the family, so too are there between the tribe and the family. The tribal leader was seen as possessing the mægen of the tribe, and for the tribe to remain successful, it had to obey its laws. Failure to do so would result in a loss of mægen. The Anglo-Saxon Eldright believes that our law, orlay, wyrd, and mægen operate on the very same principles. The same principles that the ancient Heathens may have believed in.
Here we are brought back to the discussion of *wíh-. The tribe in ancient times was the largest social enclosure of Mankind. In a sense, that which was *wíh-, was also outsideits realm, outsidethe innangards of Mankind, tho not a part of the "wilds," the Útgard. Not all outsidethe realm of Man was thought threatening. In sooth, much of what lies outsideMan's realm is helpful, esp. the Gods. Perhaps then we have struck upon the primary reason for worship, to build a bridge between the enclosures of the gods and the enclosures of Man.


In her book Culture and History in Medieval Iceland, Hastrup makes it appear that the Elderen saw all outside the guarded enclosures of their home as dangerous, not to be trusted. However, this is not in keeping with the ancient Heathens being fearless adventurers, routing the Roman navy on the open seas, colonizing Russia, and even sailing to the coasts of America. It could be argued that the physical unknown did not faze the ancient Heathen, but that the spiritual unknown was quite a different matter. To a great extant this may be true. In the ancient lore when we are met with otherworldliness it is often of the dangerous variety. Grendel is a prime example as are the countless tales of ettins and thurses. Yet, we are faced with the concept of *wíh-, that which was part of the realm of the gods, and therefore seemed to be desirable to achieve. To the ancient Heathen, there were but two types of beings outside Mankind, those that would help Man, and those that would harm Man. There were countless shades of gray between, but most beings fell into these two categories. The ancient Heathens worked charms to rid themselves of arrows shot at them by ill wishing elves and sang prayers to invoke the gods. All of this constituted an interaction between enclosures. It also constituted the ancient Heathens' concepts of good and evil.


Good was, of course, that which helped the entirety of one's tribe. Included in this would be the members of the tribe, their dead ancestors, the tribal gods, land wihts, and other beings that had proven themselves worthy in a time of need. Evil was that which sought to destroy the tribe. The contrast between the two can be seen in the early words for evil. The majority of words fall into two groups. The first group is in stark contrast to the concept of the "holy " for these words deal with evil as illness. Old English bealu, our word bale "evil," derives from an Indo-European root meaning "illness" and is related to Old Slavic bolu "sick person." Similar is Old English traga "evil" a variation of trega "grief, pain," and Old English niþ with its secondary meaning of "affliction." A term that came down to us as meaning "sick" originally meant "evil" in Old Norse. Illr should be readily recognizable as our word "ill."


This concept of evil as an illness can be seen in the Anglo-Saxon charms where wights from outside the enclosures of Mankind are blamed for causing illnesses. Illnesses, growths, and sharp pains are seen as ésascéot "arrows or spears" from elves, witches, and other wights or fléogende áttres "flying poisons."


Evil was not only seen as illness, but also as the wights outside of the innangarðs of Man that might cause illness. Thus Old English wearg meant not only "outlaw" but "evil" as well. Similarly, Old Norse fiandR "outsider" was cognate to Old English féond "demon," our word "fiend." Just as illr is in opposition to holy, so was wearg to good, and such words as Old English sibb which meant not only "relative or kinsman" but "peace."
How the ancient Heathens handled these "out dwellers" can only be seen in the Old English charms and in the interaction with outlaws in the Icelandic sagas. Throughout the Old English charms, "outdwellers" are threatened with sheer magical strength. In the charm Wiþ Færstice the spellcaster after stating he has shielded himself from the "mighty women" causing the sudden pain in the victim goes on to say:

Stód under linde   under léohtum scielde
þær ða mihtigan    wíf    hyra mægen beradden
and hie giellende   gáras sendan
ic him oðerne   eft wille sendan
fléogende fláne   forane tógeanes.

I stood under linden   Under light shield
There the mighty women   Are deprived of their strength
And their yelling   Spears sent
Another I will   Send back at them
Flying arrows   Forward in reply!

Here it is clear that the spellcaster has taken an active and somewhat combative role in chasing off the wights causing the sudden stitches in the victim. Other charms are not quite so dramatic, but clearly reflect the ancient Anglo-Saxons belief that illnesses were caused by "outdwellers" and that these "outdwellers" must be dealt with in an aggressive way.


Outlaws fared not much better in the Icelandic sagas. They were open game for anyone that came upon them (it was not illegal to kill an outlaw as they were no longer a member of the tribe and therefore, not protected by its law), and could not expect the aid of anyone. They were stripped of any lands they might own, and more often than not wound up dead at the hands of some citizen. Outlaws were men without tribe, and men without tribe were without law. Not even hospitality, one of the greatest of Heathen virtues, need be extended to an outlaw.


Of course, not all "outdwellers" were considered a threat to the enclosures of Mankind, and many such as the Gods were considered necessary, so that while illr and wearg came to be used of wights intent on harming Man, holy and *wíh- came to be used of those that were helpful to Man. Here we come to one of the primary reasons for engaging in Heathen worship: to provide a way in which modern Heathen can interact with those beings that help Mankind. This may mean more than just performing rites and prayers however, for to receive the aid of any wight, much less the Gods, one must first prove to be trustworthy, brave, and worthy of the other qualities our forbears found desirable. First and foremost one must understand Wyrd and the Law." [Wholeness and Otherworldliness]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:44 am

Quote :
Weiha and Háilag: A Closer Look at the Germanic Conception of Holiness
By Ælfric

   "The ancient Germanic peoples understood holiness in a way that has been largely forgotten in modern times.  Their conception of the holy was two-sided, each aspect being described by its own word, but only one of these words has survived in modern Germanic languages.  With the coming of Christianity into Europe, one of the two concepts of the holy slowly began to disappear, and today is almost entirely absent.  The two words are Proto-Germanic *wíhaz and *hailagaz,1 Gothic weihs and háilags, Old High German wih and heilig, Old English wéoh/wíg and hálig, Old Norse vé and heilagR. *hailagaz survives as the modern word “holy” in many Germanic languages including English, but *wíhaz does not enjoy such common currency.  The complete Germanic (and Indo-European) concept of the holy, however, cannot be understood as *hailagaz alone, but must be understood as *wíhaz-hailagaz.2

Gárman Lord summarizes the difference between that weihs and, háilags:

...wéoh, understood to mean something like “set apart,” and halig, understood to mean something like “wholesome,” are two quite different concepts, which, if so, are useful to us in understanding how it may be that a “holy” innangardhs (i.e., a wholesome place for people to live) may contain within itself a “wéoh” stead, a parcel reserved for certain very special sacral kinds of community purposes and kept roped off against casual trespass.

   In his article “The Holy,” Edred Thorsson discusses the meaning and significance of *wíhaz in the Germanic concept of the holy. This important study sheds a great deal of light on this topic.  Nevertheless, some questions remain, and there is further ground to cover in a thorough understanding of some key points in such a study.

   For example, more clarity is needed concerning the similarities and differences between the two concepts of the holy.  Thorsson writes, “Although the two terms have been separated by history, we must again understand them as two parts of a single concept -- as they were to our forbears -- inseparable and mutually dependent.”  Further, he states, “So something must be *wíhaz before it is *hailagaz -- the two are merely functions of the same state or process.”  These statements can falsely give the impression that weihs and háilags are simply two different ways of describing the same thing, even though the rest of Thorsson’s article is dedicated to demonstrating how they are two entirely different aspects of the holy.  The unity between the two aspects is that they are both parts of a single process (i.e., the process of consecration), not that they are they same. After all, if the two were the same, there would be no need for using different words to describe them.

   Weihs is the doer of the act of consecration, and háilags is that which has been consecrated by weihs.  Weihs, as “that which is set apart,” is the divine source of blessing, and háilags is that which is blessed.  An example from grammar can be used to illustrate the relationship between weihs and háilags: weihs is like the subject of a sentence, and háilags is like the object.

   That weihs is a very different concept from háilags can be seen in the connection between weihs and battle.  In the various Germanic languages, weihs means “set apart,” sanctity, priest, village, idol, sacred grove, grave mound, site where court is held, standard or banner, sanctify, consecrate, hallow, ordain, and also refers to the altar and temple.  Further, it seems to refer to the warrior, battle, strife and battle grounds.   “In Gothic, weihan means both “to consecrate” and “to fight.”  In Anglo-Saxon, the only surviving verb form of wéoh is wígan, which also means “to fight.”  When one considers that Germanic religion was a warrior tradition, and many of its gods were associated with aspects of battle, it is easy to see why the Germanic concept of sanctity would be closely related with the concept of fighting.

   The warrior tradition in Germanic society was important, because defending the folk in battle against the enemy was a way of preserving the sanctity and wholeness of society and its land.  The enemy must not be allowed to profane the folk and land with raiding and pillaging, or by conquering and subjecting the folk to a different tribe and their customs.  The gods, who are weihs,7 were understood to have a significant role to play in deciding the outcomes of battles, and thus the act of battle among men itself was the means by which the gods protected (sanctified) the folk  Religion and battle were intertwined among the Germanic tribes.  The ideal death was a death in battle defending the folk, which the warrior hoped would earn him a seat in Vallhal, Woden’s hall of the slain warriors.  Therefore, battle and warriors were considered weihs, or “set apart.” Battle, thunder, and ritual sacrifice show how weihan often involves giving up or destroying one thing as a means of preserving and sanctifying another.

   Weihs reflects the Germanic notion that worth is forged in the fires of ordeal, that conflict brings about right, and that anything worth while will be earned through challenge.  Háilags carries no such associations, but instead has a more peaceful and nurturing nature.  In that sense, weihs and háilags might be compared to the differences between worth and frith, male and female, and the natures of the Æsir and Vanir gods, respectively.

   In what contexts does the holy apply?  Holiness primarily seems to be present (or absent) in people, places and things.  There are the “holy people” in the sense of weihs, such as kings, priests and warriors.  In Gothic, a priest was called a weiha.  Therefore, the person of the Germanic priest possesses and embodies that mysterious, dangerous divine power which makes things wholesome for the people of the tribe.  He was “set apart” from society by his possession of divine power in larger quantities than the ordinary man.  One can see why a Germanic priest would be considered weihs: the Germanic “holy man,” possessing the mystical powers of the Germanic poetic tradition, could kill a man or drive him mad with words alone.8  He represented the gods to the folk, and knew the secrets of maintaining the tribal rituals by which the raw divine power was invoked to respond with hailiz to the human community.  In this way, the old Germanic sacral priest-king could also be considered “set apart” from society, and thus weihs.  The rest of the people in the tribe were made “whole” or háilags, by the actions of the weiha or priest.

   Aside from those men who are weihs, there are the people who are háilags, or “made whole;” by weihs in its various forms.  In a tribe, this group should ideally include as many of the folk as is possible.  It is the duty of the weihs such as the king, priests, reeves and other authorities to ensure the háilag-ness of the folk to the best of their abilities.

   Beyond the human ambit, holiness is widely associated with places: holy steads and sacred sites were and are central to the practice of Germanic religion.  A vé in Old Norse is a holy stead, and the place where court is held.  In Gothic, a village is called weihs. Villages, towns, shires, kunja and kingdoms each surrounded a central holy site.  A village is weihs not only because it surrounds a central holy site which sanctifies it, but because the village is the weihs-center from which men go out into the fields to work at making them háilags, or fertile and fruitful.

   Holiness can also be found in objects.  Holy objects can be either weihs or háilags, and can be either naturally occurring or man made.  The wéoh, or god-image is a good example.  The paraphernalia of worship is considered weihs, and so are such things as a thors-hammer pendant, holy stones, the altar, and the holy sword.  A great, worthy sword is weihs because it is dangerous item, forged with ancient mystical smithing secrets, and which has the power and function of bringing háilag-ness.  Also weihs are the ancient sacred cult objects of the tribe which had been passed down from kings, priests and heroes of old, such as those which the Tervingi Goths carried across the Danube with them when they crossed into the Roman empire.9  As for naturally occurring weihs, it is present in such things as sun, lightning, sky, rain, stones, trees and rivers, which have wights (spirits) living in them, or higher concentrations of main.  These are some of the sources of weihs upon which all things háilags, or whole, are dependent.

   Concerning the relationship between weihs and háilags, Thorsson states that “the two concepts cannot exist without one another,” however, he does not give any evidence of why this is so.  It is clear that the existence of háilags is dependent upon weihs, because weihs is the source of háilags.  There is, however, nothing inherent in these concepts to indicate how or why weihs would be dependent upon háilags.  Neither does Thorsson give any evidence for a dependence of weihs on háilags.

   In ancient times, the survival of men depended upon them being recipients of the háilags, and the blessings of the gods were the source of that háilags.  The gods, or véar, could thus be said to fall into the category of weihs.  There is very little indication that the gods depend upon men for their survival, even though such a dubious belief seems popular amongst certain Asatrurar.  (At the most, it could be said that the memory of the gods on earth is dependent upon men).  Do the gods need the gifts of men in order to survive? Considering that the little which men can give back to the gods came from the blessings of the gods in the first place, a divine dependency upon men does not seem likely. Furthermore, between the times of modern and ancient heathenry, hundreds of years of Christianity have passed in which the gods have received hardly any worship from men. If the gods’ survival depended on our gifts, then it seems unlikely they would have survived to refound their religion among men in the 20th century.

   Or perhaps the gods depend upon men to be their army to fight against ettins at Ragnarok, as is told in the late Norse sources, and in that way, “they need us as much as we need them.”  It should be remembered that the entire Ragnarok myth is of very late Norse origin and is not evidenced among other Germanic tribes or in earlier Germanic times.  Also, since the myth can be shown to be a Christianized and dualistic reduplication of the “Battle of the Heodenings” legend, which had nothing to do with the gods, the idea that the gods depend upon men begins to seem arrogant and highly unlikely.  Thus, while it is clear that háilags is dependent upon weihs, there is in fact no compelling evidence or arguments to indicate that weihs is dependent upon háilags.

   Further, is Thorsson’s statement that “something must be *wíhaz before it is *hailagaz” actually true?  His article does not discuss things which are weihs but not háilags, and vice versa.  Does something that is weihs have to be háilags, and does something that is háilags have to be weihs?  If something were to be both weihs and háilags, it would have to be something which is both the consecrator and the consecrated.  Anything which is consecrated must have become so from contact with something else which was already possessing the power of consecration.  Certainly some things have been consecrated, and now themselves consecrate other things.  The question here, however, is if all things holy must be both consecrators and the consecrated.

   To answer the above question, perhaps it would be best to discuss a couple of examples. A Sacral King has the power to make the fields fertile.  In so doing, he is weihs, because his embodiment of mysterious divine power makes the land háilags.  He himself, however, was not always weihs: rather, at one time, he was consecrated, or installed as king and shown to the gods.  Therefore, a king, as both the consecrated, and a consecrator, is weiháilags.11

   Is this the case with all holy things, though?  What about thunder, which also hallows the fields?  Thunder obviously embodies a mysterious and sometimes dangerous divine power which is necessary in order for the crops to properly ripen, and thus thunder is unquestionably weihs.  Is thunder, however, háilags -- is it something wholesome that was once consecrated?  Not really.  It is powerful and dangerous, (not particularly wholesome qualities), even if it can bring about wholesomeness in other things.  Also, there is no evidence, either materially or in the Germanic lore that indicates there was ever such a thing as “unholy thunder;” there is no thunder wielded by the ettins or other baleful sources.  Rather, thunder is raw holy power that was always so even though itself was never consecrated.

   Another example of something weihs is the sun.  It is very powerful, and its levels of heat and light could be described as dangerous, to say the least.  Yet the heat of the sun produces the temperatures on earth required for life, and the vegetation which sustains all life on earth is built out of sunlight in the process of photosynthesis.  It destroys the freezing cold that would otherwise annihilate almost all life.  The sun, which was never consecrated, is one of the most primal sources of weihs, and it makes life on earth háilags.

   A Greek philosopher might argue that a thing cannot bestow wholesomeness unless itself first possessed wholesomeness, just as a man with no money could not give money to others.  Fortunately, the Germanic peoples did not make use of Greek logical thinking, which so often tends to outsmart itself, as our above examples demonstrate.  háilags does not need to have its origins in a pre-existing háilags; rather, háilags has its origins in weihs.  Something weihs might be able to bring about wholesomeness in other things, but this does not mean that it is wholesome within itself.  Thunder is thus weihs, but is not háilags.  We can see, therefore, that there are two categories of consecrators: those which are weiháilag, and those which are only weihs.

   The question remains, does something that is háilags but not weihs have the ability to consecrate?  The fact that one Germanic word for “consecrate” is “hallow” may suggest that háilags does have consecration powers, but the use of the word “hallow” to describe the process of consecration in Germanic languages might also have come about due to the Christian reinterpretation of the holy (see below).  We have already established, with the example of the Sacral King, that something which has been consecrated can itself become a consecrator.  However, once something that has been made holy begins to consecrate other things, it graduates to the type of holiness embodying the more central divine origin, and is thus referred to as weihs.

   An example is the “idol” or graven images of gods which were made by the Germanic peoples, and called wéohhas in Anglo-Saxon.  The image begins as a piece of wood from a tree, perhaps from a sacred grove and therefore already considered to posses special powers.  The wood is cut in a customary way according to mystical principles, perhaps accompanied by special chants or galdors, designed for the purpose.  Then the piece of wood is consecrated: it is made holy by being formed into the shape of a god.  The image is then ritually installed on the altar, and the divine power is invoked so that the god may use the image as a “seat” during the ritual times, when he descends from heaven to the sacred grove.  The god’s presence in the image is the final stage of consecration which makes the image holy.  The image is, however, not merely something to be blessed and made fruitful, but rather, it is consecrated so that it may be the seat of divine power from which a god blesses his people and their land.  It thus becomes a wéoh because it has an active, rather than passive role in the consecration process.

   In Gothic, the earliest recorded Germanic language (mid 4th century), the distinction between weihs and háilags is more pronounced, no doubt due to the fact that translation of the bible into Gothic took place while the Goths and their religious conceptions were still heathen.  As a result, more archaic heathen concepts can be seen in Gothic than in the later Germanic languages.12  In Gothic, the term used to denote consecration was weihan -- “to sanctify,” or weihnan -- “become holy, be hallowed.”  The verb forms of Gothic háilags were hailjan -- “to heal,” and hailnjan, become well, be healed, whole.” háilags  referred only to that which was consecrated, or made whole, and was not used to describe either the source or process of consecration.   This clearly demonstrates the importance of the differences between weihs and háilags.

   In many later Germanic languages, the old heathen concept of weihs was falling out of use and being replaced with háilags.  In Anglo-Saxon and Old Saxon, which post-date Gothic by several hundred years, the use of weihs has narrowed in scope.  For example in Anglo-Saxon, weihs survives only in wéofod: altar, wíg: idol, strife, battle.  Hal still means whole, but the meaning of halor has been mutated to mean salvation.14  Haligan retains its original meaning “to heal,” but now halignes denotes sanctity, a holy place, a sanctuary, a holy thing, a relic, and sacred rites, where such things were previously called weihs.

   It might be argued that because Anglo-Saxon is not directly descended from Gothic, and developed in a much different and far away land among tribes who were only distantly related to the Goths, the use of the verbs weihan and halgian could be merely tribal peculiarities to the east and west Germanic peoples respectively.  However, the several hundred year gap between Gothic and the West Germanic languages, in which few traces of intermediate Germanic languages survive, and in which Christianity was regularly practiced by Germanic peoples, is too large not to assume that Christianity had changed the Germanic concept of the holy within that time period.

   While weihs did not survive in Modern English (accept perhaps as vie: to strive, through French envier), it did survive in other modern Germanic languages.  In Icelandic, “holy” is also only heilagur, and a consecrator is only a helgar, or halgari; however, “hallow” and “consecrate” are both helga and vigja.  A “consecratory” is sem lytur ath helgun etha vigslu: both halgian and weihan.  This seems to indicate that in the Christianized Norse lands the old heathen concept of the holy might have been preserved to some degree along side that of the new Christian viewpoint.  It is clear, though, that vigja is still secondary to helga in importance, as would be expected in a Christian society.

   Weihs also survives in modern German with much of its original meaning intact:  German weihen, “consecrate, sanctify, ordain.” Heil is “well being, salvation, whole, savior, heal,” and heiligkeit is “sanctity.”  Weihs enjoys continued use in such words as weihrauch, “incense,” and weihwasser, “holy water,” where its original meaning as the source of consecration is preserved.

   One way to trace changes in the concept of the holy in Germanic tribes is to look at the lord’s prayer in various Germanic languages to see if weihs or háilags is used.  The line “hallowed be thy name” gives us a good opportunity to observe the changes.  As might be expected, the Gothic version preserves weihs: “...weihnai namo thein....”  While some of the other early and/or east Germanic related versions of the prayer retained weihs, all later Germanic versions of the prayer accept the Old Saxon call “the lord’s” name not weihs, but háilags.  Further, all versions of the prayer in modern Germanic languages use háilags exclusively.  This reflects how the Germanic view of the holy changed after exposure to Christianity.  To the early Christian Goths, then, “the lord’s” name embodied the nature of a god, and the power of the divine was present within the name itself; thus it had to be surrounded by taboo.  The name of the god could be used to invoke the god and bless something, making it holy, but it could not be casually spoken or bandied about carelessly, lest the god be offended and his wrath invoked.  The Gothic use of weihs to describe a god-name, and the taboo which this implies is exactly the way in which Germanic heathen viewed the names of their gods.18

   On the other hand, “the lord’s” name to the long Christianized Germanic peoples was no longer a mysterious divine power which had to be treated with care, but rather, was merely a spiritual comfort that nobody actually understood or really truly believed in, that was subordinated to the needs of the individual.  It was merely a vehicle for the more self centered conception of nurturing halignes.  After all, halignes had also come to mean “salvation,” in the Christian sense.  The use of háilags to describe a god-name is not in keeping with Germanic heathen religious conceptions, but instead reflects a Christian way of thinking.

   This change in the conception of holiness reflects the de-spiritualization of the Germanic peoples.  By adopting Christianity and abandoning their old heathen faith, the Germans were abandoning weihs, or the real divinity, for the false divinity of the foreign Christian pantheon.  No longer was the divinity itself important or understood in Christianity; all that mattered was its effect on the individual.  With the true divine abandoned and no longer responding, the true nature of the divine was no longer visible to men.  The divine was therefore only seen in terms of “what it could do for you,” in other words, the supposed “halignes” of good feelings in life arising from self-delusion, and supposed salvation at the time of death.

   The importance of weihs, and the distinction between weihs and háilags are very important both on the level of their primal manifestations, and in terms of human involvement with the two aspects of the holy.  According to Thorsson, the object of "magic" is to "...reach into the *wíhaz realm with a form that is intelligible to it that it may respond with hailiz -- holiness -- in some form."  From a religious, rather than magical perspective, a Theodsman might instead say that “it is the object of the Wéofodthane or priest, and his ritual workings, to reach into the weihs realm with a form that is intelligible to it that it may respond with háilags.”

   Now, in modern heathenry, or at least in Théodism, the old Germanic two-sided concept of the holy is being revived along with the old gods and traditions.  Concerning the distinction between weihs and háilags, Gárman Lord is most certainly correct when he says “the difference seems so crucial that if we didn’t already have words for such a distinction, we’d have to invent some anyway; it’s all quite necessary to everything we do.”  It could even be said that the proper practice of heathenry is dependent upon understanding these two distinct aspects of the holy, and how they work together in a single process.  “The bridging of the gap between the world of *wíh- and the mundane world is the true purpose of religion...” It is important that modern heathen set aside the Christianized concept of the holy as a single force, separated from the true nature of the divine, and instead understand the true spiritual reality of weihs and háilags."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:08 pm

Your knowledge of Seidr is inexhaustible and there is a general thirst for it, so I suggest expansion.

My rune-postings here happened during the Jupiter-Sun conjunction in Virgo. I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb. It was a seethingly invigorating time.

Nietzsche speaks of the need for festivals. I suggest we take this suggestion and make it real.

I propose - or have instated in my mind, a festival-cyclus that is determined by the Suns conjunctions with Jupiter - they will last 21 days (a little under 21 degrees, given no retrograde), the middle on is the precise conjunction and the high feast.

All the 21 days must be attributed a symbol and a name. But they must be named on the days themselves. I propose that we do this here on this forum.


*
**
***

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Awake
shake dreams from your hair my sweet one
choose the day, the days divinity,
first thing you see...


Here is a calendar of the central dates of the next four festivals. As they approach, we will fill them in with their proper information to prepare for the sanctifying act of naming the 21 days, so that holy days may recur under those names indefinitely.  


TEMPORUM IOVIS

2016
Sunday - September 25
september 15 to october 5

2017
Thursday - October 26
october 16 to november 5

2018
Sunday - November 25
november 15 to december 5

2019
Friday - December 27  
december 17 to januari 6




Ansuz
Thrice thrice hail

***
**
*


Last edited by Black Panther on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zoot Allures



Gender : Male Posts : 357
Join date : 2015-09-03
Location : .

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:14 pm

Quote :
I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb. It was a seethingly invigorating time.

Well what do you know. I thought I was the only one who thinks the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb is a seethingly invigorating time.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:35 pm

One of these four dates is something of a devils birthday.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:31 pm

Zoot Allures wrote:
Quote :
I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb. It was a seethingly invigorating time.

Well what do you know. I thought I was the only one who thinks the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb is a seethingly invigorating time.


You ought to learn some manners before the altar young man.
They call me "citizen cane".

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hrodeberto

avatar

Gender : Male Capricorn Posts : 1339
Join date : 2014-07-14
Age : 31
Location : Nova Universalis

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:21 am

Zoot Allures wrote:
Quote :
I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb. It was a seethingly invigorating time.

Well what do you know. I thought I was the only one who thinks the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb is a seethingly invigorating time.


Never knew 100 percent tonality (or 0 percent understanding) could make me laugh so hard.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:24 pm

The bastard is funny, no doubt about that. And "seething" was inviting the jokes. The ones who have investment in this thread will understand its reference.

In any case. I am determined to create a religion of cycles, a ring to cohere man under, and a religion can only be carried by those who communicate with subtler things than semantic hermeticism.

It is in a sense a reconfiguration of being through altering the way in which time binds our notions of culture and self together.



Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hrodeberto

avatar

Gender : Male Capricorn Posts : 1339
Join date : 2014-07-14
Age : 31
Location : Nova Universalis

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Cyclic cycling till the Stars fall from the Sky.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:05 pm

Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
“Patience up to a point. Know your time, but work your wyrd always.”

Jera – “Yehr-ah” – Literally: “Year” – Esoteric: Harvest

Rune of harvest and reward for, or reaction to, right actions in a horizontal (naturally ordered) cyclical process. Rune of peace on the land and in the heart.

Psi: psychological time, patience, the measurement of time

Energy: good harvest, orbits, cycles, progress, biorhythms, right effort

Mundane: waiting, gardening, farming, the seasons, harvest

Divinations: Reward for positive action, plenty, peace, proper timing; or repetition, bad timing, poverty, conflict, regression.

Governs:
Fertility, creativity and harmony with the land
Peace, prosperity and plenty
Realization of the cyclical nature of the multiverse, invoking the power of time and cycles
Bringing other concepts gently into material manifestation
Initiating gradual and lasting change in flow of life.

My Notes:

The summer harvest was winter food, the seeds from the harvest became next summer’s crop. So while attentiveness to cultivation of the present moment is paramount, within the present moment lay the wisdom for future planning.

The cycle of the seasons is not so much associated with time, but the inflow and outflow of the land’s breath. The rhythms of sleep, dusk and dawn, the heartbeat, the breath, all these are keys into unlocking Jera’s subtle nature. Like Isa, Jera is has an unstoppable energy, gradual but unrelenting, unhurried but persistent, indifferent to human influence. Nature has a way of persistently marching on. Jera’s changes are not sudden or explosive, and cannot be forced. The key is making small, gradual changes every day, for the better. Taken alone these events may seem trivial, but they are cumulative and proceed forward with all the inevitability of earth’s journey around the sun.

Jera is a rune of patience and movement with the harmony with natural tides of life. Moving with such life rhythms brings abundance and plenty. The cyclical recurrences in the biosphere and of the astronomical procession spirals through time, and contains many more profound secrets than does our common involvement with linear time, calendar dates and the clock.

Jera has to do with right timing. Jera is in the maxim “This too shall pass”, the proverb, “As you sow, so shall you reap”, and in the modern adage, “time heals all wounds.” Using this rune is the key to understanding the mysteries of time and the psychological importance of dividing and managing time.  Deadlines bring out the best in us and motivate us to grow to levels beyond our present ability. It also moves us to strategically taking action when the time is right. Take advantage of the ups and coast through the downs.

Jera can magically speed things up or slow things down, and manipulation of subjective time in this manner is governed by this rune. In this rune we see the most stark western counter-point to the maxim ‘time is an illusion’. If a person sows no seeds, does no work, plants no goals and desire in his or her thoughts, Jera will bring about situations which reflect that lack. The ultimate consequences of past human action unfold into the future.
[[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]

Jupiter's cycle combines the numbers 12 and 13, a combination with endless significance; in plain terms, perfect divisibility vs hard prime.

12 feasts in 13 years.

Jera, the 12th Rune of the Futhark, stands at the threshold - see my entry of last month.
What it opens up once that threshold is crossed is represented by the 13th rune, Eihwaz.

Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
“The path is hard and lonely and there is no end to sight.”

Ihwaz (also: eihwaz) – “Yew-was” – Literally: “Yew” – Esoteric: Yggdrasil or Kundalini

“The axis or process of spiritual becoming.” Upper and lower worlds meeting in Midgard (earth). Rune of the mysteries of life and death.

Psi: death mysteries, the timeless, kundalini,

Energy: axis of heaven-earth-hel, secrecy, encoding, immortality, the chakra system (hvel)

Mundane: longevity, initiations, trees

Divinations: movement toward Enlightenment, endurance, initiation, protection; or confusion, destruction, dissatisfaction, weakness, death

Governs:
Initiation into the wisdom of the World Tree (Yggdrasil) and hvel (chakras)
Liberation from the fear of death.
Development of spiritual endurance and hard will to gain initiative
Spiritual vision
Communication between levels of reality – the Worlds or Yggdrasil

My Notes:

Eihwaz begins the second half of the 24 rune Futhark and represents the vertical axis, whereas Jera represents the horizontal. It is also indicative of the verticality and energy of the human spine. The spine (the pelvic region not included) has 24 vertebrae, which I do not believe is a coincidence in the case of the elder futhark.

The spine is the channel for one of the most powerful energy flows in the human psyche, which Yoga has termed Kundalini ‘fire’. It is the flow of megin energy up from the root hvel (chakra) to the crown hvel in the mind, bringing cosmic consciousness. Attempting to awaken Kundalini fire too early in your training can cause serious harm.

The needle of the yew is poisonous, containing a toxin that affects the central nervous system. The vapors from the toxin can become concentrated in close proximity to the tree. As a conifer/’evergreen’, it is associated with immortality, and the mysteries of life and death. Death is understood as the Great Initiation into the mysteries of life. To die before you die is to discover what in life is truly important. In psychology, this often happens as a result of near-death experiences.

The fear of physical death is one of the great inhibitors of humankind’s potential for total freedom of mind and spirit. Eihwaz gives you the power to recall your past lives, in short fragments or in more complete segments, and as a result confirm your death in this life as only one stage of a greater journey. Invoke Eihwaz as you conduct a meditation or dream exercise for the purpose of discovering past life patterns in the present. The answers lay not in memory, but in the clues of your here and now.

Eihwaz can be invoked for communication with the underworld and the dead. It is wisest to remain within your own ancestral stream when doing this, as your ancestors have reason to respond to your inner call. There should be sufficient reason to invoke such dark workings, but it is not an ‘evil’ exercise.
[[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zoot Allures



Gender : Male Posts : 357
Join date : 2015-09-03
Location : .

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:10 pm

I think that's what happened. I tried to awaken my Kundalini fire too early.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:20 pm

Black Panther wrote:
My rune-postings here happened during the Jupiter-Sun conjunction in Virgo. I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb.

The particular day - 10th you made the first post on the uruz was merc. square pluto - investigative obsession, con(/fides.ential) job, the chthonic animal galloping across borders, stringent control of (information) flow [gravity] etc.

Another factor: Sept. 2015  dominated by Jupiter opposite Neptune (Neptune on the fixed star Deneb Adige) - intuitive revelations, uncollectable/irretrievable wealth through fine-arts, fluid visions, overwhelmed by hypersensitivity, drugs, alco, getting lost in fogs, hiding in fogs, unclarified luck from water and the subconscious, mist-icism, surrounded in a fog by duplicitous friends and their joviality, unrealistic blindspots, generosity without discrimination and ending up deceived, over-sentimentality, buttery steamy soups, messianic dreams or callings for pilgrimage to exotic places across waters, lady of the lake graces...

Crowley's was natal and it shows in his 'deceptive-religion', illumined vision of spirit mediums, literally
"love under the law". [I'm not sure but I think I recall Hefner is another - so 'dazzling' in his 'trend-setting 'style' statements, diktats…]
On the other hand, when Crowley himself remarked on planetary aspects, he cited Shelley as a case in point for the same. The "religion of humanity", Prometheus, etc.

Back to topic, sun-jupiter conjunctions - a random one in pisces:

March 2, 1939: Pope Pius the XII succeeded Pope Pius XI as the 260th Pope.

March 12, 1951: Hank Ketcham’s best-selling comic strip “Dennis the Menace” appeared in newspapers across the U.S. for the first time.

March 18, 1963: Gideon vs. Wainright – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the poor must have lawyers.

Effects appear very 'light'[jup] - 'hearted'[sun]…

Its why in the east, seething combustions are more carefully observed for… a conjunction is pedantically split up.
This is because in the west, we believe, a 10o is safe where the benign functionalities would be boosted through the aura of the sun, but in the east, as you well know, the cazimi is like an engulfing and it is the sun that is refracted through the 'prism' of jupiter lodged in the very heart of it.

Ancient festivities revolved more around full moon and new moon, but this standardization itself is a jupiterian wink ; )

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:29 pm

Quote :
It was a seethingly invigorating time.

I have just posted in the Under-world thread on the idea of Hephaestos as the wounded-artist.
Shaping of the horse-shoe luck is a forging in the cauldron of the midnight sun.
Detienne-Vernant speak of Hephaeustus' "metis" connecting his crooked intelligence with his crooked feet...
Hephaestus - was the Greek 'god' of blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals, metallurgy, fire and volcanoes. As a smithing god, Hephaestus made all the weapons of the gods in Olympus.

Blacksmiths and 'Fire-Forgers' ['consciousness-temperers'... 'sheen of sword-tempering'] like Hephaestus were looked upon as magicians and sorcerers for working with fire and dealing with the tempering of swords...

Quote :
"From the fire-place calls the old man,
Thus the gray-beard asks the minstrel:
"Tell me who thou art of heroes,
Who of all the great magicians?
Lo! thy blood fills seven sea-boats,
Eight of largest birchen vessels,
Flowing from some hero's veinlets,
From the wounds of some magician.
Other matters I would ask thee;
Sing the cause of this thy trouble,
Sing to me the source of metals,
Sing the origin of iron,
How at first it was created."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The Fire-Forger looking into Dante's satano-centric abyss, ores mined from the deep-earth rings of time…
And they rightly called you Citizen Cane..

Quote :
"Just some thoughts about Cain and Iron-Workers in history:

In many cultures, iron-working was considered a transgression against the natural order, as can be seen in this quote from "The Forge and Crucible": "In India, as elswehere, a whole mythology classes iron-workers amont the various categories of giants and demons. All are enemies of the gods who represent other ages and other traditions" This seems to be true of Cain as well-Cain's descendants are a race of magicians or of supernatural beings-For instance, the monster Grendel in Beowulf was supposed to be a descendant of Cain.

For what reason is the blacksmith seen as demonic? The extraction of ore from the earth was seen, according to Mircea Eliade, as an act which violated the natural order. By digging underground, humanity was risking inviting the demoniac and chthonic forces, and was symbolically "killing" the metals that grew in the earth. Also, the act of forging a weapon used for killing could be seen to be analagous to killing itself-Thus, the blacksmith's act of heating and hammering the metal was seen as an act of killing.

Hence, the symbolism of Cain murdering his brother. This can be seen in ancient Greek myth regarding three brothers, who were smith daimons: "Two brothers put their third brother to death; they bury him beneath a mountain; his body changes to iron."The two brothers represented the hammer and the anvil, the third brother is the iron, which is slain by the other two, and forged into a weapon." The symbolism also recalls the legend of Romulus and Remus and other similar myths about fratricide.

Another reason why iron-working was viewed as demonic may be that the blacksmiths were seen as sorcerors who "stepped on the gods toes", so to speak, by using magic to forge weapons. Forging weapons and tools believed to have magical power, the miths were, by analogy, acting in the role of creator or demiurge, and perhaps this was a bit too close to self-deification for comfort. Note that in the book of enoch, Azazel was expelled from heaven for teaching humanity forbidden arts (most of a magical nature) which included the forging of weapons. The act of the blacksmith, like that of the alchemist, was viewed as analagous to the search for immortality, and therefore a violation of the traditional boundary of man and god. Here's a quote from Joseph Campbell regarding this point:

"These first shamans became the itinerant blacksmiths, who in later mythic lore appeared as dangerous wizards producing "immortal thunderbolt matter" made from crude rock. Miracle of miracles, it was "analogous to that of spiritual, whereby the individual learns to identify himself with his own immortal part.""[Galactica Publishings]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I extrapolate it to the "kali yuga" or the Iron Age... when everything has become so "instrumentalized"... Marshall McLuhann's "the medium is the medium": [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
Ansuz
Thrice thrice hail

***
**
*

Iii-Aaa

Hephaestos rides an ass… also sacred to hestia.

"For falling to a devilish exercise,
And glutted now with learning’s golden gifts,
He surfeits upon cursed necromancy." [Christopher Marlowe, The Tragedie of Doctor Faustus]

Quote :
"Necromancy (Latin necromantia, Greek νεκρομαντία nekromantía) is a form of divination in which the practitioner seeks to raise the spirits of the dead in order to gain knowledge of future events from them, or to acquire special powers from such entities. The word derives from the Greek νεκρός nekrós “dead” and μαντεία manteía “divination”. It has a subsidiary meaning reflected in an alternative and archaic form of the word, nigromancy, (a folk etymology using Latin niger, “black”) in which the magical force of “dark powers” is gained from or by acting upon corpses. A practitioner of necromancy is a necromancer."

Necromancy upon cap-Abel corpse…, the yielding iron 'put to death'…

In the Odyssey (XI, Nekyia), wodhANsuz Odysseus makes a voyage to Hades, the Underworld, and "raises the spirits of the dead using spells which he had learnt from Circe."

Hermetic messenger Odin:  The root of “cunning” from Old English “cunnan”- “to know”, evolved into “konnyng” –  “clever, learned or skillful.” Being dexterous.

dexterity – from L. dexteritatem – “readiness, skillfulness, prosperity”, from dexter “skillful,” also “right (hand)” from PIE base *deks- “on the right hand”, hence “south” to one facing east (cf. Skt. daksinah “on the right hand, southern, skillful;” Avestan dashina- “on the right hand;” Gk. dexios “on the right hand,” also “fortunate, clever”; O.Ir. dess “on the right hand, southern”; Welsh deheu; Gaulish Dexsiva, name of a goddess of Fortune; Goth. taihswa; Lith. desinas; O.C.S. desnu, Rus. desnoj).

Like Dexsiva, the Indo-Aryan goddess of Fortune, ‘Sri’ is Prosperity incarnate. She is affiliated with the black earth, as gold-en gleaming Maia is to Vulcan- of the black earthen lava. Alf Hiltebeitel, in The Ritual of Battle remarks,

Quote :
“Sri’s meanderings, in accord with nothing unless it be the rhythm of Time… is unfaithful to those she favours. Coomaraswamy points out [‘Early Indian Iconography: Sri-Lakshmi’, p.178], this theme of fickleness later reaches such a height that “she is described as so unstable that ‘even in a picture she moves’, and if she clings to Vishnu, it is only that she may enjoy His constant changes of form!” …Vishnu-Krishna is thus the refuge of every omnivirtuous monarch or claimant to the sovereignty which… Sri incarnate, represents on earth.”

The Titan Mnemosyne, Greek for Memory, and mother of the Muses by Zeus, was equated by the Romans with Moneta, from Gk./Lat. Monere ‘to ReMind, warn, instruct’ possibly the instability of wealth, in her role as the goddess of coinage. Moneta, Latin for “mint” at the forge, is the origin of the words money, mint and monetary. Consider the metis at play here – to ‘invent’ a term, a ‘name’ is also to ‘coin’ it. To ‘name-craft’ is not only to create a memory henceforth but also to re-present memory; i.e. to presence a ‘memory’ in a ‘renewed mask’. To ‘name-craft’ was to presence a Wealth, and a Luck. Vilhelm Gronbeck [‘Culture of the Teutons’] writes;

Quote :
“At the point where the new-born child is adopted by the clan he is brought into contact with the power that resides in the possessions of the race. When the father gives the little one a name, …[he] determines his fate by speaking a soul into him. …and what happens at the ceremony is nothing more nor less than this; that the portion of luck and soul which is set in the name is actually hung upon the bearer, and by contact set in himself. …With the honourable surname, the giver, by virtue of his own surplus of luck, set something new into the receiver… Any wish, any blessing, was to a certain extent akin to this naming, inasmuch as their power lay in a psychic transference of what lay in the words. …a family could not appropriate a name without the right involved by spiritual alliance. All the hamingja that belongs to the allied family lies open to the clan.”

The Plutonic “underworld” also denotes crime, ‘criminals’, tricksters, ‘invisibly’ facon+ing [facere, face, factio, fashioning] society, ‘fascinating’, binding, ‘seizing’ power of mass-control…
Ansuz - the power of naming is a binding, grasping. Odin, the warrior-poet of magical fettering. A word is a noose, but bringing forth the buried luck  and life-force of ancestral breath, or luck generated through the ancestral line…
The serpent fire, the fire of Cain, is also called the Cunning Fire. Yeats’ ‘Fire in the Head’ – numinous light, is access to our dai-mon-ic essence…
The coin bearing the head of the sovereign law was the head and the law literally.
Memory, To reMind, to warn - a "foreboding".

Philosophy at the "mouth of the estuary"(ansuz) begins as a deep wonder turning to a fore-boding.

Zarathustra's ass-festival com-memorates a fore-boding of the Overman.
The real sanctity/regal seal of a festival is not in the hospitality and feasting per se, but to gather a shared vision of and around a foreboding, such that every one feels they have been alloted the same share of fate, the same elevation, despite unequal luck.

Quote :
"A hierophant (Ancient Greek: ἱεροφάντης) is a person who brings religious congregants into the presence of that which is deemed holy, from the combination of ta hiera, "the holy," and phainein, "to show."

The Hierophant [V] / Pope as Satyr, than saint.

Nietzsche wrote:
"The satyr was man’s true prototype, an expression of his highest and strongest aspirations. He was an enthusiastic reveller, filled with transport by the approach of the god…" [BOT]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Water forge - Word/Wyrd forge - Weapon forge.

Ansuz is mouth of an estuary from which water/life flows… and orders everything around it - laguz.
Heidegger spoke of the river gathering together a polis around its flow.

Naming rites couldn't be performed without sprinkling of water from holy wells and fountains with dragon-mouths guarding the luck, treasure or the vitality…
Fire-breathing dragons were "seething cauldrons".
As much as one-eyed odin looking into the wells of time and the wizard's mouth, also one-legged Hephaestos looking into the dragon's mouth.

The wounded artist.

Odin: Word : eye<>mouth
Hephaestos: Weapon : leg<>arm

Laguz, law, lore:

Quote :
The Tree of Life, known as Yggdrasil: Ygg's horse, carries the weight of the world on its back. Worlds upon worlds are found in its branches and among its roots. The Tree suffers cruelly from all the creatures living on it. But the Yggdrasil ash does not die. It is sustained by three sources of HOLY water, translated variously as wells, springs or lakes and known as the Well of Wyrd.

The Old English Wyrd is the source of the modern English word 'weird.' In Old English Wyrd wasn’t weird at all. It was a title, an honorific, so revered that it appeared in Old English Christian texts as the word for God, the Holy Trinity or Lord. Now it refers to anything odd or a bit wicked, but this meaning is relatively recent. To 5thcentury Anglo-Saxons, Wyrd was actually an ancient ‘point of view about reality,’ writes Tom Graves.
Wyrd-lore is older than English. It can be traced back to Norse poets and story-tellers who regarded its teachings so important that they retold it generation after generation:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mimisbrunnr: the Well of Wisdom, is tended by Mimir a wise giant.He stands waist deep in water, supporting mountains on his powerful shoulders. Mimir, whose name means 'memory,' embraces all experience. Odin gave one of his eyes to Mimir for a drink from this well. Hanging upside down on Yggdrasil for nine days, Odin read the well's secret knowledge. He never smiled again, but he shared his insights. It is said that Odin's well-inspired rune lore can lift the human spirit out of chaos.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hvergelmir: a Seething Cauldron, source of all the worlds' rivers, reaches deep into the cold underworld of Hel. Though small in stature, sons of Ivaldi, defend Hvergelmir from the raids of storm giants. Above this well, lives a serpent or dragon, Níðhöggr: Striker in the Dark. It is said Níðhöggr secretly gnaws at the root of the Tree of Life and it would destroyed if it weren't for the Wyrd-lore that constantly repairs the damage.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Urðarbrunnr: the Well of the Wyrd, reaches high into the world of Asgard, a sky-world full of Aesir: the pillars of deity, heroes and wise elders. Three of these, sisters known as Norns or Wyrds, rose from the sky-world to dwell in a hall near the well. Each day, the sisters collect holy white clay from the base of the tree and mix it with waters they draw from the well.
These life-charged waters are said to be so holy that whatever falls into them will turn clear as egg-white. It is said that all deeds of life are washed into the Well of Wyrd and mix with the many past deeds of kith and kin. This recycling of deeds is called Orlog, the collectiveWyrd which has been laid down in layers to be drawn up by the scrying Wyrd sisters.

ENGLISH AND LAKE-LAW-LAY
The English words 'law' and 'lay' come from the 'log' part of Orlog,which also forms the Anglo-Saxon sacred rune 'lagu,' often translated as 'lake.' 'Law' is something which has been 'laid down,' says lexicographer John Ayto. But there's more to the primary meaning oflog: it's 'life energy' or Waters of Life.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Water, to the Anglo-Saxon mind, was the law of the land! Water sprinkled in blessing over the newborn or a young warrior was believed to be drawn from this primal layered life-law-lake, charmed and charged as it was with the guiding wisdom of the Sky-world.
Since this ancient water-lore-law was the very life within beings, and since Orlog was a conductive medium between the worlds of human and ancestor-heroes, law did not need to be imposed by any external authority. Law lay within as lore.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Each day, the Wyrds pour their elixir of Orlog over the World Tree, so nothing will wither away. It is said that these waterings cause honeydew to fall, keeping alive the world around the well. Each day, it is said, the Aesir ride to the Weird's Well to hold court on the deeds of humanity. Whether demon or deity, everyone contributes to and feels the sacred influence of the waters of the Wyrd.


SWANS ON THE LAKE OF WYRD

Across the Well of the Wyrd, it is said that glide two swans. They curve elegant necks beneath the waters to drink. From these two, all swans are said to be descended. 'Swan' and 'sound' come from the same source, 'swan' meaning 'to sing or make sound.' It is said thatspae-wight guardians take the form of swans to protect the Wyrd of humans. The bond between spae-wight and human is like that of lovers: honorable deeds strengthen their marriage, while broken promises muddy the waters that flow between them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The names Wyrd, Urtha, and Verdandi all share the same source, an Old Norse verb verðr: to turn, wind, grow or become. This verb gave rise to the English suffix '-ward,' as in 'forward,' and 'worth' which originally meant 'towards.' In this way, Wyrd is an orientation in the world. Since both Wyrd and Urðr are the past-tense of verðr, they denote orientation towards the collective wisdom of the past. With no future tense, Skuld comes from the Norse skole/skulle: what needs or ought to be. Her name in Old English is Scyld:promise, obligation or debt, is related to the Modern English ‘should.’ Her power is found in the necessities that cannot be evaded, the vows that cannot be broken: matters of life and death.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It is said that the three Wyrds visit all at birth. The first two bestow blessings, while the third brings a contract with life that must be honoured: many call it a curse.
In Wyrd-lore, personal reality is understood to never solely be our own, for it is determined not only by the collective acts of individuals, past and present, but by society as a whole. PersonalWyrd may be blighted by kith, kin, hound, human, demon or deity, but it is blessed by our own courage and actions. The realization that deeds flow into a Well from which all others will draw, urged the Anglo-Saxon to lay down a Wyrd that is good for all. The wise Anglo-Saxon remembered that the Wyrd watered the tap-root of the Yggdrasil Tree that supports all Life. Old Germanic cultures were orientented towards the past, understanding its power to nourish and shape the present. The connection between the past and present was maintained by the keepers of the Language and Lore. Old Germanic languages had no future tense. The future, as we know it, didn’t exist. Any sense of future was generated from the Wyrd-Orlog layers of past relationships. So, Time was not linear. It was a tide: cyclic like the turning of the stars, the phases of the moon and the daily path of the sun."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Sanctification: Naming and Anointing

Quote :
""River Worship.

Pindar's twice delivered maxim, 'water is the best thing', 'best' not in comparison with wine or other liquids which in its widest sense it included but best of all things. For it is the elemental liquid, the life-substance. Homer tells us that the hair which Achilles put into the hand of Patroklos was to have been offered to the river Spercheios in his fatherland.

It is a custom reported elsewhere in early Greece that on attainment of puberty a lock at least of a youth's hair was cut off and offered to the neighbouring river. We can now see why. At puberty the psuche of the body, the liquid that is life and that issues in new life, has been brought to fullness, thanks mainly to the local god of liquid, the life-giving stream, which has in fact produced not only the water he has drunk but also in large degree that which he has absorbed in plants—'wine and barley-groats, the marrow of men', etc.—and animals nourished thereby.

'The rivers are regarded as youth rearers because the liquid gives growth', say the scholia about Achilles and Spercheios, and go on to tell us that the ancients 'used to bring the bath for the bridegroom from a river as an omen of seed or procreation'; while another source tells us that it was customary for the bride-groom to go to the local river to bathe and sprinkle himself with its water, 'praying by this token for the begetting of children since the water is life-begetting and generative', i.e. water from a river is, represents or confers seed.
'Bathe, foment', as if thereby infusing psuche. With this rite for the bridegroom we should relate that for the bride as reported from the Troad.: When marrying she had to go to the local river, Scamander, and bathing herself with its water, said, as if it were something holy, 'Take, Scamander, my virginity'. The record of this implies similar happening with the river Maeander in Magnesia. Spercheios and other rivers appear in the Homeric poems chiefly as fathers of ordinary mortals by mortal women."

"After strenuous effort and sweating a bath seemed to restore vitality:

Plautus says mihi...prae lassitudine opusest (ut) lavem (True. 328) and again: Charinus. at tu edepol sume laciniam atque absterge sudorem tibi.
Cf. medullam lassitudo perbibit (Stick. 3 4 0 ); defessus omnibus medullis (Catull. LV, 30), etc.

We can also now better understand anointing, the application to the body of oily liquids or unguents, practised from the Homeric age onwards usually after the bath. It is generally dismissed as part of the toilet, cleansing and perhaps perfuming the skin or 'so that the skin might not be left harsh and rough', but was, I suggest, thought to feed, to introduce into the body through the pores, the stuff of life and strength, which appears to come out through the pores in the form of sweat. The head, seat of strength, seems to sweat most,' and was apparently in Homeric times, as later, specially anointed.

Sweat itself might be used. The Nubians suppose it will give them strength to apply the sweat of their horses to their own bodies. After a ride they scrape off the sweat from their horses' backs with the hand and rub it about their persons as if it were one of their ordinary greasy ointments.' Anointing was thought so essential to a Greek athleteI that it came to mean 'to be in training for athletics'. Sweating, as we saw," was naturally regarded as the issuing of the watery cerebro-spinal liquid or lymph and of marrow or fat, the liquefiable element, the stuff of life and strength, from the body.

'Why is it that the fat is consumed in those who exert themselves?' ask the Problemata. 'Is it because fat melts when heated?'
'Unguent', is for Homer animal fats but the analogous plant substance, the oil of the olive, was also used. It is possible in England to experience the penetrative virtue of goose-grease or camphorated oil or, if one is an athlete, olive-oil itself, and our twentieth-century life-essence, vitamin-vehicle, cod-liver oil is now absorbed by inunction. If we realise that the Greeks thought of unguents essentially as penetrating, we can also understand how 'anointing' can be used by Aeschylus in the sense of 'penetrate, pierce'.

'Why is it that fatigue ceases more readily if one mixes water with the oil with which one rubs oneself?' continue the ProblemataJ 'Is it because the oil sinks in more when mixed with water but by itself does not penetrate so well because of a tendency to remain on the surface?' So too among the Romans. Thus Plautus speaks of 'filling a man up' (repplere) with unguents; and of those who are exhausted Petronius writes:

intraverunt palaestritae complures et nos legitimo perfusos oleo refecerunt. utcumque ergo lassitudine abiecta cenatoria repetimus.

When Democritus, who was fond of eating honey, was asked 'how one might live in health', he replied 'by moistening one's inside with honey, one's outside with olive-oil.
External application does not trouble the stomach and may have seemed a more direct and economic way to recruit the layer of fat (just beneath the skin) that appears to exude in sweat.

We have seen that the distinctive importance of the head for the earliest Greeks, Romans, etc., was that it contained
the stuff of life, the seed, and in it the procreative life-soul, and that cerebrum is related to cereo, cerus, etc., and expressive of procreation, fertility. That we may now see to be the root meaning of cornu, horn, Him (='brain'), etc. There was a further reason why horns should be connected with procreation. Not only does castration produce marked change in the growth of horn but also, just as hair was believed to be an outcrop of the procreative power since it grows upon the face and pubes at puberty, so it was observed that horns tend to develop fully at a similar stage. Not only are horns thus an outcrop of the procreative power but their use is largely sexual. Quoting many examples Darwin declared that 'tusks and horns appear in all cases to have been primarily developed as sexual weapons', i.e. for use by the male to defeat rivals in approaching the female.

We may confirm our explanation of the horns in Cretan cult and at the same time explain what also has not hitherto been satisfactorily explained, virtually the only horn or horns separated from the head in Greek myth, the 'horn of plenty'. It was Cretan, the horn of Amaltheia, foster-mother of Zeus. Why was a horn believed to be the source of new-born creatures, fruits, etc.—fertile cornu. Because it was itself an embodiment of the seed, the procreative power. The 'horn of plenty' was a symbol of the genius and sometimes represented containing phalli. Thus we can also explain the alternative legend that it was the horn of the prime river-god Acheloos. A river was itself the fertilising liquid of life with which the head and its other outcrop, hair, were particularly associated. The horn of Amaltheia was believed to be the source of the fertilising liquid above, rain.

The ancient Germanic peoples here in the North had names for brain and horn cognate to the Greek and Roman names.
In some counties 'to have got the horn' = ' to lust, be lustful' and the epithet 'horny' meant 'amorous'. There is clear evidence that early Greeks, e.g. Archilochus, referred to the male organ itself as 'horn', and Aristotle in fact explained thereby.

In any case, if 'horn' had in early times such sexual significance, we can understand, as it has not been possible hitherto, how a man's wife, who receives lovers, prostituting herself, could be said 'as the saying is, to make horns for him'. She thus supplements him. Possibly there is a joking suggestion also of her working for his benefit. From such an idiom it would be but a step to say that the husband who 'has many a Paris in his house' has horns.
Mediaeval poems (e.g. in the thirteenth century) show a belief that a horn grew upon the forehead of him whose wife had received a lover. Presently it was a custom in England and elsewhere in Europe for neighbours to put actual horns upon the head of the husband, apparently to show with what his wife had supplemented him. Possibly on occasion the association of horns with the pugnacious anger of the sexual element played a part. In The Story of Rimini Leigh Hunt describes how an enemy
'Had watched the lover to the lady's bower And flew to make a madman of her lord.'
The putting of horns upon the head of the patient cuckold might by some be intended to endow him with that which he seemed to lack, sexual power and pugnacity, what belonged to the element in the head.

Their use of cerebrum and cerebrosus implies that for the Romans to have more brain was to have more of the substance active in aggressive anger, and the conception traced of the horns as an outcrop of that sub stance will help us to understand Ovid's reference to his becoming angry at last because his mistress receives other lovers, Virgil's irasci in cornual of a bull extending its anger into its horns.
Thus also we can better understand the virtues attributed to the horn of the unicorn or' Scythian ass' (i.e. rhinoceros). It was the concentrated substance of the procreative element from the animal that was the supreme embodiment of procreative power. Aelian tells of the Arcadian Styx that no vessel could hold it, not even iron ones, none except the
horns of Scythian asses. In mediaeval belief a unicorn could not be caught by force or skill but would run to a maiden's bosom.

Romans shared the belief that there is in the body a liquid, a 'sap' (sucus) on which life depends, giving the body its fullness and drying up into the leanness of old age, a liquid associated with sexual power. Such a liquid would naturally be related to and be the concern of the life-soul to which sexual power belongs, the genius, as it was to the Greek psuche. This will explain many expressions from the time of Plautus, which imply that to take nourishment, i.e. vita was to benefit one's genius and to take little or none was to rob one's genius, expressions which do not easily fit earlier theories that the genius is just the procreative power in man or the luck of the family, an external guardian spirit, etc. For Plautus he who serves up food sparingly 'wages war upon' (True. 183) or 'cheats (defrudat)'! his genius; on the other hand a man intending to obtain a feast says: 'I shall do a lot of good to my genius (genio meo multa bonafaciam)'; to the man who knows how to dine, one says: 'You are pretty wise as to how to treat your genius (multum sapis ad genium)'.

In such passages the genius does not, as has been suggested, represent 'the capacity for enjoyment', it is not a 'hypostatisation of the warmer desires it is not a matter of a man's genius being' pleased when he lives enjoyably', rather when his body is well nourished.

Conscious desire, whether for the pleasures of the table or indeed for sexual gratification, is a matter of the conscious self, the animus. The genius is a second party distinct from and not reflecting the conscious self. It is friendly or hostile as it is treated well or ill (cf. curare corpus, curare genium) by the latter. The need and inclination of the genius for what will replenish the life-liquid in the body is of course known to the conscious self. For Roman writers, in the man who is satur the sexual element is strong and active. To make concessions to that need and inclination is to 'indulge one's genius'. The man who does is genialis, while he who does not is aridus, 'dry'. Both parties may be mentioned. In Plautus the man who is thus aridus who has lived on niggardly fare, confesses 'I have defrauded myself, my animus and my genius'; while three centuries later Martial says to such a one 'You have neither heart nor genius'.

We can now understand why one who looked after his genius, eating a great deal, was not only termed genialis but in Plautus' time was nicknamed 'Capito', 'Head', as if that were all that mattered for him (cf. gula, gulo, etc.); and a curious fragment of Lucilius can thus, perhaps, be better appreciated: 'he himself destroys the head that has been nourished.

To age was to lose flesh, i.e. to lose liquid, to 'dry up'.

Thus, to convert Odysseus into an old man, Athene 'dried up the fair flesh on his pliant limbs, destroyed the yellow hair from his head, set the skin of an old man on all his limbs, and bleared his eyes that before were beautiful'.

'No longer do you bloom the same in your soft flesh; for it is drying up already' says Archilochus.

'Hated old age is withering and drying me up', says Sophron, and again 'shrivelled skin instead of a man'.

Hippo, who identified the life-principle with the 'water' of the cerebro-spinal marrow, thought that 'there is in us our own liquid (or "moisture") according to which we are sensible and by which we live; when this liquid is in its proper condition, the living creature is healthy, but when it is dried up, the living creature lacks sense and dies; on this account indeed old men are dry and lack sense because they are without liquid.

The observations which seem to have determined the traditional system reappear. For Aristotle 'the living creature is by nature moist ("liquid") and warm, and to live is to be such, but old age is cold and dry and so is what has died... it is inevitable that one who grows old should dry up. Thus in the courts to allot different lengths of time to individuals, different amounts of water were allotted to them, and as 'his water' ran out, the allotted time of each ran out, so that we get phrases like 'during my water'. The conception of the life as diminishing liquid inside a man will explain such language as that of Sophocles' Electra:

'Dropping myself at this gate friendless I shall dry up my life', such turns of thought as that of the comic poet Antiphanes:' The life in us (lit. "of us ") approximates to wine; when but little remains it becomes vinegar', is amplified by a nameless epigrammatist : 'Of sweet wine if a little be left in vessels, this that is left turns into sour. So when he has drained away the whole of life and comes to old age at the bottom, the old man becomes sour-bile(d) (or 'quick to anger'.

Lucilius speaks of old men as if they were raisins: rugosi passique series.

Wine was in a peculiar degree equated to, identified with the life-fluid, and not less in Italy than in Greece. The Romans believed in a diminishing 'sap' (sucus) or liquid oflife in the body as in a plant, and Trimalchio, when century-old wine is served, says: 'Alas, alas; then wine lives longer than a man (homuncio, "manikin"). Wherefore let us moisten ourselves. Life is wine (vita vinum est) '.
The ancient Roman festival of the spirit of the year, Anna Perenna, on the Ides of March is now more intelligible. Its distinctive feature was that the assembled crowd drank wine 'and they pray for as many years as they take ladles full and they drink up to that number. There you will find a man who drinks up the years of Nestor, a woman who has been made a Sibyl by her cups' (i.e. very long-lived). And at other times of the year to a friend, as he was drinking wine, it was customary to cry 'May you live', i.e. 'Life to you'. 'Vivas', 'Bibe multis annis', etc. were inscribed on wine cups.

In this same thought doubtless lies also the origin of the ancient custom of drinking a little from a full cup of wine and then bestowing it upon one to whom one wishes well.
In Greece the bride's father (or the bride) gave the cup of wine thus to the bridegroom. Thus Pindar says: 'Even as when a man gives from wealthy hand a cup bubbling within with the dew of the vine to the young man, the bridegroom, drinking therefrom first and giving it from home to home, all golden, the head of his possessions, drinking with him and honouring the connection... so I am sending liquid nectar...'.
That this was a gift of the liquid of life is confirmed in a variation of the custom. The drinking of a little before makes of it a 'communion', a sharing of the same life. So in Homer one honours another by holding out one's cup of wine for him to take and drink therefrom.

At the ancient Roman festival of the year wine was drunk and the amount of wine was the amount of life. Ovid calls it festum geniale. This thought perhaps explains why the sacrifice to one's genius, one's life-spirit, consisted primarily or exclusively of wine. Horace tells of 'the genius appeased with wine on holidays' and how 'the farmers of old... used to propitiate Earth with a pig, Silvanus with milk, and the genius, mindful of life's briefness, with flowers and wine'. 'Pour wine for your genius" is Persius' terse command. The traditional connection persisted. When at the close of the fourth century Theodosius I formally suppressed paganism, he forbade
'honouring the Lar with fire, the genius with wine, the Penates with incense' (larem igne, mero genium, penates odore veneratus).
A Roman honouring his genius touched his forehead: venerantes deum tangimusfrontem.
The brain with its fluid was the stuff, as the genius was the spirit, of life, of generation. Wine was apparently believed to go to the brain." [Onians, The Origins of European Thought]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:47 pm

Black Panther wrote:
The bastard is funny, no doubt about that. And "seething" was inviting the jokes. The ones who have investment in this thread will understand its reference.

Ansuz in reverse gives you what? But of course an encounter with the Loki…

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Odin and Loki are two diff. planetary tricksters.
Crooked wits.
The Ass festival and the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

"The Donkey -and the mule- is in fact the recurrent animal in this book, he is the burden beast to who Le Corbusier attributes  the plan of all the pre-modern cities. According to the Swiss-French architect, the donkey by his zigzags’ tracks that “takes the lines of least resistance, drew the lines of the city. Modernity, on the contrary, advocates for the pure and sane orthogonality that celebrates the fact that “Man has made up his mind”. Le Corbusier’s obsessive pathology for sanity, is fully expressed here: Architecture and the City have to constitute thaumaturgic machines in which health is no longer a mean to perpetuate life but rather celebrated as a self-justified end.

In the following excerpt of this same chapter, Catherine Ingraham recounts Le Corbusier’s “mythopoetical account of the history of the city” and subtly  promotes a “bestial urbanism” that will lead her to write her next book Architecture, Animal, Human: The Asymmetrical Condition in 2006.

Ingraham wrote:
"Le Corbusier argues that orthogonality, the “orthogonal state of mind,” best expresses the spirit of the modern age. And he opposes the “regulating line” of human beings –orthogonal, geometric, measured (architectural, urbanistic)- to the path of the pack-donkey: “Man walks in a straight line because he has a goal and knows where he is going; he has made up his mind to reach some particular place and he goes straight to it. The pack-donkey meanders along, meditates a little in his scatter-brained and distracted fashion, he zigzags in order to avoid the larger stones, or to ease the climb, or to gain a little shade; he takes the line of least resistance.” Man thinks only of his goal. The pack-donkey thinks only of what will save him trouble. “The Pack-Donkey’s Way,” Le Corbusier goes on, “is responsible for the plan of every continental city.”

According to Le Corbusier’s mythopoetical account of the history of the city, the covered wagons of an invading population “lumbered along at the mercy of bumps and hollows, of rocks or mire [and] in this way were born roads and tracks.” These early tracks are made according to a “donkey’s idea” of how to move from one point to another. Along these tracks, houses are “planted,” and eventually these houses are enclosed by city walls and gates. “Five centuries later another larger enclosure is built, and five centuries later still a third yet greater.” The great cities, built according to this first track heedlessly traced out on an inhospitable landscape, have a multitude of small connective capillaries. For cities clogged by these intersection capillaries, Le Corbusier recommends “surgery”: cutting out central corridors (arteries) so that the “bodily fluids” of the cities can flow. The straight line that cuts through the congestion of the pack-donkey’s way is, according to Le Corbusier, “a positive deed, the result of self-mastery. It is sane and noble.”

The pack –donkey recurs as a motif throughout The City of Tomorrow: in a later section on nature, whose material body is described as chaotic (the beast) but whose spirit is described as orderly (human rationality); in an account of the human body as a “fragmentary and arbitrary shape” but a pure and orderly idea; in an account of nations “overcoming their animal existence”; in an account of the supremacy of orthogonality; and so one. The pack-donkey is the figure –in these (and others) fables- of a disorderly nature, of the chaotic and diseased body, of a barbaric architectural and urban past.
The donkey makes the “ruinous, difficult and dangerous curve of animality” and typifies the “looseness and lack of concentration” of human beings in distraction –that is, the primitive or nonmodern human being. The donkey in all of these guises threatens the triumph of geometry –an urbanism and an architecture of geometry, of positive action, of overcoming and ascending to power(nationhood), of sanity, nobility, and self-mastery." [Architecture and the Burdens of Linearity]



Quote :
In any case. I am determined to create a religion of cycles, a ring to cohere man under, and a religion can only be carried by those who communicate with subtler things than semantic hermeticism.

It is in a sense a reconfiguration of being through altering the way in which time binds our notions of culture and self together.


Integrity through the rings of time, shedding karma through every act, a little saturnalia…



_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


Last edited by Lyssa on Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:47 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Zoot Allures wrote:
Quote :
I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb. It was a seethingly invigorating time.

Well what do you know. I thought I was the only one who thinks the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb is a seethingly invigorating time.


You ought to learn some manners before the altar young man.
They call me "citizen cane".



Citizen Cane so different from cap/Able…


_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:39 pm

I admire the trickster to an extent, this trickster in particular has had some real opportunities to prove his wits. That he is still passionately defending Wittgenstein and Spinoza is a tribute.

The occult is a feminine work, the harder, simpler tribes would not allow men near such soft-making things. Odinic listening is not the same as Seidr, the latter is the circumference of the former.

Jupiter-Sun is obviously a case of light-ness, but not without severity. The pope is the shadow of the Caesar. Even the shadow doesn't pass lightly. But I am in favor of the attribution of light feet. A yearly feast, once ever 13 months. Is that not beautiful? 12 years of 13 months, man finally ascending the Zodiac.

Jupiter-Pluto is the most powerful combination for enduring power explosions, such as Communism or Microsoft. Saturn is grave. He creates his cycles regardless of our will. But Jupiter is light as you say, 'excess' as some capably attribute it, and thus responsive.

Think about that.
I'm not entirely disregarding the idea of the opposition though - but Jupiter oppositions tend to be of such pure excess that it would have to be orgiastic feasts.
Hell, why not two feasts a year?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:54 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Jupiter-Sun is obviously a case of light-ness, but not without severity. The pope is the shadow of the Caesar. Even the shadow doesn't pass lightly. But I am in favor of the attribution of light feet. A yearly feast, once ever 13 months. Is that not beautiful? 12 years of 13 months, man finally ascending the Zodiac.

Jupiter-Pluto is the most powerful combination for enduring power explosions, such as Communism or Microsoft. Saturn is grave. He creates his cycles regardless of our will. But Jupiter is light as you say, 'excess' as some capably attribute it, and thus responsive.

Think about that.
I'm not entirely disregarding the idea of the opposition though - but Jupiter oppositions tend to be of such pure excess that it would have to be orgiastic feasts.
Hell, why not two feasts a year?



Boils down to… Roman Caesar [Jup] + the Christ [Sol]?

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:58 pm

There is singular opportunity for a cyclic feast in the choice of Jupiter, due to his manageable 12 year course that gives the 13 month year.

12 is the old cosmic order of all the earths peoples.
13 is that which lies beyond, Pluto, the forbidding, the other, the angle and hook, the end where it all begins anew as the threads emanating from a central Earthquake. 12 is the web of light. The thunder occurs at 13, this is Eihwaz. That which isn't seen but heard, felt rolling underneath.

(Dogs bark)

"Boils down to… Roman Caesar [Jup] + the Christ [Sol]?"

I can live with that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:12 pm

Black Panther wrote:
12 is the old cosmic order of all the earths peoples.
13 is that which lies beyond, Pluto, the forbidding, the other, the angle and hook, the end where it all begins anew as the threads emanating from a central Earthquake. 12 is the web of light. The thunder occurs at 13, this is Eihwaz. That which isn't seen but heard, felt rolling underneath.

(Dogs bark)

The no. 13 is the 'death' card in the typical tarot - the 'yawning gap'.
So one sees the gap, the 0 and how crux-ial/cruc-ial/cross-ial/orthogonal it is.

The numbers are fine, but in the 18 set, 12 falls on Tyr, who is Odin's counterpart in the dual mode of law - open exoteric contractual [tyr] and hidden esoteric magic [odin].
GvL. describes this rune of coming down from the sacrifice as the rising phoenix, and tyr, tar as in *nek- (death) + tar- (to cross, to overcome).
The rune bears the saying, "fear not death, it cannot kill you."

The 13th falls on Berkana - the Birch rune.
GvL.: "when he goes into battle, he cannot fall,
no sword may strike him to the ground."

Man moving through 3 'bars' of life: bar [birth], bar [life as song], bar [bier, death]
If Ansuz was the Naming rite, here it is inheriting the Initial - The first movement.

Quote :
"The wild boys are calling
On their way back from the fire
In august moon's surrender to
A dust cloud on the rise
Wild boys fallen far from glory
Reckless and so hungered
On the razors edge you trail
Because there's murder by the roadside
In a sore afraid new world

They tried to break us,
Looks like they'll try again

Wild boys never lose it
Wild boys never chose this way
Wild boys never close your eyes
Wild boys always shine

You got sirens for a welcome
There's bloodstain for your pain
And your telephone been ringing while
You're dancing in the rain
Wild boys wonder where is glory
Where is all you angels
Now the figureheads have fell
And lovers war with arrows over
Secrets they could tell

They tried to tame you
Looks like they'll try again

Wild boys never lose it
Wild boys never chose this way
Wild boys never close your eyes
Wild boys always shine" [Duran Duran]

Quote :
"As through the air in the dark came a thunder,
- a howling horde on ferocious horses,
It raced over woods to the wedding house,
Intended to visit the bloody performance.
Then horns blew, and an awesome noise
From bells and riding-gear resounded.
Now it was close - it came over the hill -
There was an outcry: The wild hunt of Asgard!"

"The Wild Hunt is an ancient folk myth prevalent across Northern, Western and Central Europe.
The fundamental premise in all instances is the same: a phantasmal, spectral group of huntsmen with the accoutrements of hunting, with horses and hounds in mad pursuit across the skies or along the ground, or just above it.
The hunters may be the dead or the fairies (often in folklore connected with the dead). The hunter may be an unidentified lost soul, a deity or spirit of either gender, or may be a historical or legendary figure like Theodoric the Great, the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag, the Welsh psychopomp Gwyn ap Nudd or the Germanic Woden (or other reflections of the same god, such as Alemannic Wuodan in Wuotis Heer ("Wuodan's Army") of Central Switzerland, Swabia etc.)
It has been variously referred to as Wilde Jagd (German: "wild hunt/chase") or Wildes Heer (German: "wild army"), Herlaþing (Old English: "Herla's assembly"), Woden's Hunt, Herod's Hunt, Cain's Hunt,the  Devil's Dandy Dogs (in Cornwall), Gabriel's Hounds (in northern England),[6] Ghost Riders (in North America), Mesnée d'Hellequin (Old North French: "household of Hellequin"), Cŵn Annwn (Welsh: "hounds of Annwn"), divoký hon or štvaní (Czech: "wild hunt", "baiting"), Dziki Gon or Dziki Łów (Polish), Oskoreia or Åsgårdsreia (Norwegian: "ride of Asgard"), Estantiga (from Hoste Antiga, Galician: "the old army"), Hostia, Compaña and Santa Compaña ("troop, company") in Galicia, and güestia in Asturias.
Seeing the Wild Hunt was thought to presage some catastrophe such as war or plague, or at best the death of the one who witnessed it. Mortals getting in the path of or following the Hunt could be kidnapped and brought to the land of the dead. A girl who saw Wild Edric's Ride was warned by her father to put her apron over her head to avoid the sight. Others believed that people's spirits could be pulled away during their sleep to join the cavalcade.
In Germany, where it was also known as the "Wild Army", or "Furious Army", its leader was given various identities, including Wodan (or "Woden"), Knecht Ruprecht (cf. Krampus), Berchtold (or Berchta), and Holda (or "Holle"). The Wild Hunt is also known from post-medieval folklore. ...
Otto Höfler (1934) and other authors of his generation emphasized the identification of the hunter with Odin, looking for the traces of an ecstatic Odin cult in more recent customs from German-speaking areas.
In view of this, John Lindow of the University of California, Berkeley (Lindahl et al. 2002:433) notes that more recent scholarship "would argue a basis in an Indo-European warrior cult in which young warriors imbued with the life force fight with the characteristics of animals, especially, those of wolves, and are initiated into a warrior band [...]."

As we approach the time of SAMHAIN (pronounced 'sah-win'), when the boundries dividing the "realm of the Dead" from that of the living are supposedly almost nonexistent, many people decorate their environment with images designed to instill fear and evoke terror. Samhain, the Celtic Feast of the Dead, the End-of-Summer Fire Festival, or the beginning of the dark part of the 'New' year. At this time, the ancestors are honored and return to claim their portion.
Of all these images which evoke terror, none is more enduring and widespread than that of "The Wild Hunt". The myth of the Wild Hunt can be seen in many countries, and exists in England, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Scandinavia, and Iceland, among other places. Simply put, the Wild Hunt is a procession of beings led by a spirit who roam through the countryside reveling, hunting, killing or eating everything in their path.

"There was a tempest in Heaven and Earth,
That hurled a horror in every heart,
It blasted along in growing circles,
It punched with wings and grabbed with arms.
Then Wolf was dragged away by his hair,
thrown up in the air and taken away,
Yes, taken away over woods and mountains,
He was never seen or heard of again." [Johan Sebastian Welhaven, Asgardsreien (The Wild Hunt)]

Throughout Ireland there are tales of monsters that appear at Samhain and that must be killed by a hero. These can be shown to have an Indo-European heritage. ... They seem to point toward a proto-Irish myth associated with Samhain. It is the story of a malevolent being or beings, who comes from outside the world (from a sidhe or over or under the sea) at Samhain and lays waste to the world. This being is triple in some form(three heads, three ravens, three hearts, three spurts of blood). He is finally destroyed by a hero who is in some sense an outsid­er as well (Amairgein, Finn, Caoilte, Lugh) with a thrown weapon (spear, sling-stone, chessmen). That this event results in a renewal of the world is not stated, but is implied...
the warrior is a force for destruction who must be incorporated into society. What I wish to emphasize here, however, are the cosmological implications. Cosmos cannot last. It must always eventually crumble before the powers of chaos which chip away at it from outside and underneath. Thus the Indo-Europeans expressed their own understanding of the law of entropy. They did not see it as one-way, however, but held out a hope for the restoration of order.
Chaos comes to sweep away the calcifications, and then the hero comes to recreate a secure cosmos again. The destruction is not pleasant to those who undergo it, and our sympathies are clearly on the side of the hero. Still, the hero himself has chaos in his soul."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
"Beginnings are always important, as are the ways we approach any new task. Good preparation and a willingness to lay the ground on which we will build are every bit as valuable as the eventual outcome. The Green Man's wisdom here is specific: make a good start and whatever you are undertaking will end well. This means paying attention to the moment of inspiriation (which the Celts called 'awen') and following this to a satisfactory conclusion.
Traditionally birch was used to drive out evil spirits and return to sanity those who had become mad. Its calendrical association is with the beginnings of the year, and with the sacred festival of Samhain, hence its connection with making a fresh start. The birch is also one of the first trees to flower in the spring.
At Samhain,... Birch was burned to drive out “evil spirits” or the spirits of the old year. This practice had continued into more modern times with the practice of “Birching prisoners or the Insane in an effort to expel these more modern versions of the evil spirits."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Its interesting how I arrive at the same thunder/lightning via the Wild Hunt and the thinning veil, through this one. Like the 'fuhrer':

Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Mikalojus Ciurlionis

"In a process not well understood, a channel of ionized air, called a "leader", is initiated from a charged region in the thundercloud. Leaders are electrically conductive channels of partially ionized gas that travel away from a region of dense charge. Negative leaders propagate away from densely charged regions of negative charge, and positive leaders propagate from positively charged regions.

The positively and negatively charged leaders proceed in opposite directions, positive upwards within the cloud and negative towards the earth. Both ionic channels proceed, in their respective directions, in a number of successive spurts. Each leader "pools" ions at the leading tips, shooting out one or more new leaders, momentarily pooling again to concentrate charged ions, then shooting out another leader. Leaders often split, forming branches in a tree-like pattern. In addition, negative leaders travel in a discontinuous fashion. The negative leaders continue to propagate and split as they head downward, often speeding up as they get closer to the Earth's surface."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Without a high resistance 'neutral' 0 sheath, you wouldn't have a lightning discharge.

With 13 falling beyond, there's also the speculation, thunderstones were fallen meteorite material. The 8-legged horse quickly gallops. Riders of the Storm… riding the power-Animal, using the wand for charging objects is called gandr. Evola speaks of Riding the Tiger through the modern vortex, and Shakespeare the Boar, and also riding the witch's broom made of Birch…

Quote :
"The term gand itself means "chant, incantation, enchantment," no doubt the means used to power the reið. The riding of broomsticks, distaffs, or wolves is also included in the art of gand-reið (Cleasby-Vigfusson, s.v. gandr). The concept of "faring forth" in animal form exactly parallels Saami and Siberian shamanistic practices. Gand-reið could also include dream-faring and hag-riding or nightmare attacks… Storms are not the only forces of nature the seið-witch could summon: many sagas recount episodes where landslides are caused, either be a seið-witch walking thrice widdershins around a place and chanting or by laying in a trance (Ellis-Davidson)."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Speaking of the boar and the underworld, the Birch rune also covers the Nerthus cult:

According to Tacitus,

Quote :
"There is nothing especially noteworthy about these states individually, but they are distinguished by a common worship of Nerthus, that is, Mother Earth, and believes that she intervenes in human affairs and rides through their peoples. There is a sacred grove on an island in the Ocean, in which there is a consecrated chariot, draped with cloth, where the priest alone may touch. He perceives the presence of the goddess in the innermost shrine and with great reverence escorts her in her chariot, which is drawn by female cattle. There are days of rejoicing then and the countryside celebrates the festival, wherever she designs to visit and to accept hospitality. No one goes to war, no one takes up arms, all objects of iron are locked away, then and only then do they experience peace and quiet, only then do they prize them, until the goddess has had her fill of human society and the priest brings her back to her temple. Afterwards the chariot, the cloth, and, if one may believe it, the deity herself are washed in a hidden lake. The slaves who perform this office are immediately swallowed up in the same lake. Hence arises dread of the mysterious, and piety, which keeps them ignorant of what only those about to perish may see." [Germania]

Quote :
"The rune berkano, “birch,” is the rune of the Great Mother, the goddess worshipped as Nerthus by the early Germanic people, who became Holda on the continent and was split into Hel and Freyja in the Norse countries. This rune embodies the root of much of the Vanic cult: the earth goddess whose powers of fertility must be renewed by the sacrifice of her consort each year. The stave-shape for berkano may be seen as the swollen breasts and belly of a pregnant woman; it may also be seen as the mirroring and fundamentally identical enclosures of womb and tomb.
As a rune of bringing-into-being, Berkano is mighty as a shaping force in itself, the thought being, as written in the Prose Edda, that the layers laid at birth (coming into being) will remain powerful throughout life. This is also written forth in the “Havamal” passage. The sprinkling with the waters of life is an old pagan custom; in this case, the magical action taken is that of enclosing the child at birth in the protection of berkano, which remains around him throughout his life because it has been written as his orlog, his first layer of weird.
Berkano is the rune of the mound itself, as apart from the initiation within the mound. It is the equivalent of the alchemist’s athanor, the oven or “womb” in which transformation takes place.
Berkano is the rune of hidden transformation and growth.
Ritually, Berkano embodies the need for silence and the dark cloth which covers magical implements between use or in the process of creation. It is best for this cloth to be made of linen, as flax is closely associated with Holda, a later German name for Nerthus.
Used with other runes, berkano hides their workings until the unified result is ready to be brought fully into being.
The rune ingwaz is the male counterpart to berkano - as berkano is the great mother who receives, conceals, and brings forth, ingwaz is her sacrificed consort and the seed she keeps within her until it is ready for birth. The rune poem may refer to the spring procession of Nerthus in the wagon. As described by Tacitus, and in the Norse equivalents of this procession, the mortal consort of the deity rode in or ahead of the wagon carrying the god’s statue, and it is plausible that what is described here is Nerthus’ consort mg riding ahead until the goddess’ return to the sacred island, when he might very well be slain. The god mg, of course, would be re-embodied in each year’s male sacrifice, and during the days of the procession the incarnation of the god would be encouraged to impregnate as many women as he could. This may be the source of the beliefs of many of the Germanic royal houses that they were descended from mg or Frey" [Gundarsson, Teutonic Magic]

Hades' hidden cap of invisibility and the plutonic transformation of the initiant, and the death and rebirth of the male consort as the dying and recurring sun.
Berkano is therefore also the play on Sanctuary (refuge) and Sanctification.
Earth-wire protects from short-circits and shocks.

On sanctuary, the word Asylum means both - a place for the insane, and a place from the insane:

early 15c., earlier asile (late 14c.), from Latin asylum "sanctuary," from Greek asylon "refuge," noun use of neuter of asylos "inviolable, safe from violence," especially of persons seeking protection, from a- "without" + syle "right of seizure." So literally "an inviolable place." General sense of "safe or secure place" is from 1640s; meaning "benevolent institution to shelter some class of persons" is from 1776.

"Sanctus Januarius". [N.]
Janus hinge of two faces marking beginning and end in Roman history.
Janus gateway holding together-apart… the ER.
The lightning bridge-branching off and splitting,

Ernest Becker wrote:
"Too much possibility is the attempt by the person to overvalue the powers of the symbolic self. It reflects the attempt to exaggerate one half of the human dualism at the expense of the other. In this sense, what we call schizophrenia is an attempt by the symbolic self to deny the limitations of the finite body; in doing so, the entire person is pulled off balance and destroyed. It is as though the freedom of creativity that stems from within the symbolic self cannot be contained by the body, and the person is torn apart. This is how we understand schizophrenia today, as the split of self and body, a split in which the self is unanchored, unlimited, not bound enough to everyday Things, not contained enough in dependable physical behavior." [The Denial of Death]

But there is also the other kind of Schizophrenic:

Chris Bohjalian wrote:
"A term came to her that they used on occasion at the shelter: the double bind...They used the expression in much the same way that they would use a term like catch-22." [The Double Bind]

A double-bind is a space that leaves one with no place…  "hades".
The nexus is the heart… the "Sanctum".

At the nodal points and crux/cross-roads of the lightning, Hecate stands watching with three faces.
Hekatos "far-shooting"… like web of lightning.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Quote :
Quote :
"Boils down to… Roman Caesar [Jup] + the Christ [Sol]?"

I can live with that.

Except N.'s point was the pity that fills the heart of Christ ought to be like child's play to a Caesar… The Overman - the most empathetic, and yet overcoming the last temptation of pity, of a christ, of sun in pisces…

Sometimes one must have the courage to totally build from scratch and look away from improving upon, making-do and compromising with worth-less models when your ideals have outgrown them, even if that's all you've got.

Invent - assoc. with venue, open space.
Discover - assoc. with en/closure, weir, close space.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


Last edited by Lyssa on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Zoot Allures



Gender : Male Posts : 357
Join date : 2015-09-03
Location : .

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:47 pm

How much different would your day be if you did the things you would do if you didn't read any of the stuff in this thread?

Are these theories only for the sake of theorizing, or are these beliefs put into practice.. do you do something differently because you study this stuff?

It's all very interesting in it's own rite (pun there).. don't get me wrong. I just don't see how someone could be interested enough to study at such length this kind of literature and material, if they know none of it is literally true.. or 'real' for those who don't like the word 'true'.

Or maybe people do believe some or all of that stuff is true, which would imply one of two things; either a) causality and not just correlation was proven.. saving it from remaining one big induction fallacy, or b) they were at least one sandwich short of a picnic.

I suppose you two rather enjoy showcasing your knowledge of this material (which is immense), and that this is less about you posting it under the pretense of an agreement between you and the reader that the reader not ever question the literal nature of it all and ruin the spirit of the thread.

But to reiterate my question; how is knowledge of this material applied in material living.

Give me an example of something you do and don't do because you believe this stuff. How are you formed and in-formed by this stuff? (Lyssa likes it when I use dashes in my words.. sorry panther.. I know, it's weird)

Quote :
The bastard is funny, no doubt about that.

Quote :
I admire the trickster to an extent, this trickster in particular has had some real opportunities to prove his wits.

It is you who is the trickster, Bene Gesserit witch!

How do I know this... how can this be?

For I am the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:58 pm

"Astrologer. Receive with reverent awe star-granted hours
By magic’s spells enthralled be Reason’s powers,
And in its stead, arising far and free,
Reign glorious, daring Phantasy!
What you desired so boldly, be it now perceived;
It is impossible, therefore to be believed"… [Goethe, Faust]


I dont know of any area that could be more empirical than astra-Logos.

Your foremost tools are in fact your senses and no books,… look around nature, outer and inner- and feel, listen. Self<>Cosmos.

Sly, no I dont enjoy showing anything.


EDIT: Astrology is not a Placebo.
I do not care for Plotinian/Jungian/Kabbalist corruptions; I keep the sun in sunday and moon in monday.

Quote :
"Had Pythagoras and his teachings not been since the early Academy overwritten with Plato's philosophy, and had this 'palimpsest' not in the course of the Roman Empire achieved unchallenged authority among Platonists, it would be scarcely conceivable that scholars from the Middle Ages and modernity down to the present would have found the Presocratic charismatic from Samos so fascinating. In fact, as a rule it was the image of Pythagoras elaborated by Neopythagoreans and Neoplatonists that determined the idea of what was Pythagorean over the centuries." [Christoph Riedweg, Pythagoras, His Life, Teaching and Influence]


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:11 pm

Excellent. The gap between Tiwaz and Berkana is indeed maximal and the Birch rune itself is an apotheosis of the system.

For 10 years I had concentrated only on Algiz, which my teacher interpreted as Mannaz, to form a sense of what runes are. Both the common Mannaz and the Algiz rune satisfy the general concept of up-holding, Man as dharma. But the more complex glyph, which seems to be a deepening or collapsing into lock of the previous, Ehwaz, represents a complex construct, things hooking into each other, whereas the Algiz rune represents only the magician when he still was two arms to to the heavens. Nauthiz is the magician with his lowered left arm.

As for the Caesar and the Christ. It is easy to underestimate the necessity of the Christ for the existence of Nietzsche. Nietzsche did very well in making this so hard to see, because we had to be free of all the Christians, except that first one which Nietzsche thought of as the only one. "We are sons of God, what is the law to us?", Christ as iconoclast, before he became icon. Nietzsche learned from what was made of his teaching (praxis, spirit) by the hands of lesser men, and made sure never to make it so easy for his students to become satisfied.

Back to the seasonal compass; The squares are not to be disregarded either. Perhaps the most excessive points. We then have four cardinal junctures in a 13 month cycle, which becomes, with 12 cycles, 13 years. 4x13=52, "Jupiter weeks", which last more or less 13 weeks.

I am happy to attribute this to Berkana rather than to Eihwaz.
But since there are now four cardinal points, there must be 4 runes.
Jera and Eihwaz or Berkana and Tyr to occupy the squares? I think it is the point of maximal excess, and the greatest conflict of conscience. Fitting to be placed under the eye of the mightiest of justifying-gods - but no, the conjunction is the origin, the opposition the depth. Tiwaz and Berkana, it seems to me.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:56 am

Zoot - first off, why do you want to know?
This is the stuff of true power, it is how we are ruled, one way or another.  I assume you are not entirely ignorant of the structure of the human mind.
Comprehending the ways of power is thrilling in its own right.

Why did Hitler define his divisions by means of runes? Why is the US military controlled from a pentagon? What changes?

Good question. If you are seriously asking, we could get dirty with it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zoot Allures



Gender : Male Posts : 357
Join date : 2015-09-03
Location : .

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:08 pm

What do you mean why do I want to know? I don't want to know.. I want to know how and why you think you know any of this has substance.

Quote :
This is the stuff of true power, it is how we are ruled, one way or another.

Now you're talking. What kind of power? Hydraulic, electrical, executive, legislative, military, flower, what?

Quote :
Why did Hitler define his divisions by means of runes? Why is the US military controlled from a pentagon?


Because throughout history man has always been fascinated with metaphysics, mythos, spiritualism, symbolism, numerology, the occult, etc. He makes his activities and creations meaningful by understanding them through and within the narrative he has selected (there are countless systems in each of the fields as you know) to believe in. But that doesn't mean everything happens like it happens because of the reasons he thinks they happen, see.

There was a study done by astrologers I think... something about a large percent of interviewed athletes who had Mars in Sagittarius when they were born. Does that mean the narrative about the planet Mars ruling over those attributes that make one athletic, is therefore true?

Does the fact that a geometric shape has as many sides as, say, the number of erogenous zones in the body or the amount of times an empire went to war, have any significance, any correlation or causal connection? If so, how?

Quote :
I assume you are not entirely ignorant of the structure of the human mind.

Well, let's just say we can talk meaningfully about [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] without ever having any certainty about what exactly it is, so trying to understand how it works is less important than understanding what is meant when the word is used. When it is used philosophically rather than in ordinary speech (he's out of his mind! mind your business!) or medical vernacular (the patient isn't mindful, his mind is going), it gets overly complicated.

I've taken the early metaphysics retirement package anyway because I am no Immanuel Kant, so I rarely do metaphysics anymore, but I appreciate the offer to "get dirty with it".






Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:37 am

I was aware of your ridiculous beliefs, but it was impolite not to ask.
Now, begone.


Back to top Go down
View user profile
Black Panther

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-11-26
Location : Northern Europe

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:07 pm

A hierarchy always exists based on the division between the those who refuse evidence, and architects of/in time.

The modern world is so petty, its religion so pervasive, the laziness of its apes so proud, that its hard to want anything for it than enslavement. I suppose this was always the conflict in the mind of the bridgebuilder.

Fuck it, my task is to make the bridge, not to force the sheep across it.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zoot Allures



Gender : Male Posts : 357
Join date : 2015-09-03
Location : .

PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:29 pm

I'm under the impression that when I die, that's it. I'm okay with that although it is rather presumptuous. On the other hand, I also consider some kind of continuation after death to be possible, either as an eventual physical (atomistic.. center of force, etc.) recurrence of very similar events, or a continuation of consciousness somehow after death.

Supposing the first were true, it wouldn't mean anything more than the same thing over and over and over again. The whole process being meaningless repetition. If the latter were true, the next question is, how would what happens next be related to this life right now; does what we do now affect in any way what will happen next. Is there a direction this thing is going in or is it a non-linear process. Are there 'better' or 'worse' stages in this development.

I don't think there is for the overall process.. I think the same terms apply as do for the eternal recurrence.. only different in this respect; the feeling of novelty and progress in each life is actually deceptive. There is no overall progress (contra Hegel's developing absolute spirit) I don't think because I can't imagine any terminus in space and time. I can't imagine a 'stop' and an 'end', if you will.

What I don't believe is at all possible are the heaven and hell concepts as a terminus. Either they wouldn't exist at all, or they would not be final stages.. just one more kind of life that is lived in the endless overall process.

Now suppose there was a way to do each stage 'right'.. what would that mean.. to do it right? What would happen if you did it wrong? Let's say you'd have to do it again, maybe. Okay...so? There you are, doing it again.. not qualitatively different than an eternal recurrence of the same.

You see where I'm going. The feeling of novelty will always be there.. the feeling of there being a direction.. a right way to live which will get you a good deal in the next, and so on. But if at each stage these feelings are structurally the same, each stage is basically the same... the same form of experience is happening. The content might be different, but not the way in which it is perceived and made meaningful in each life.

What if you discovered we had had this conversation an infinite number of times already?

And each time you believed you were building a bridge to advance in your stages, while in fact you were doing the same thing every time and will continue to do the same thing, forever, while I type out these same posts trying to explain how it is possible that each time you believed you were building a bridge to advance in your stages, you were in fact doing the same thing every time and will continue to do the same thing, forever, while I type out these same posts trying to explain how it is possible that each time you believed you were building a bridge to advance in your stages, you were in fact doing the same thing every time and will continue to do the same thing, forever, while I type out these same posts trying to explain how it is possible that...

Quote :
Now, begone.

Sorry to have been so much of a bore, but in my own [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I find I learn much more.




Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order.

Back to top Go down
 
Paganism and natural order.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Paganism and natural order.
» contract form or purchase order
» REPEAT ORDER
» Control on Purchase Requests and Purchase Order
» GPPB guidelines for issuing variation order beyond 10%

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Know Thyself :: AGORA :: LYCEUM-
Jump to: