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 Paganism and natural order.

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Hrodeberto

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:36 am

Cyclic cycling till the Stars fall from the Sky.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:05 pm

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“Patience up to a point. Know your time, but work your wyrd always.”

Jera – “Yehr-ah” – Literally: “Year” – Esoteric: Harvest

Rune of harvest and reward for, or reaction to, right actions in a horizontal (naturally ordered) cyclical process. Rune of peace on the land and in the heart.

Psi: psychological time, patience, the measurement of time

Energy: good harvest, orbits, cycles, progress, biorhythms, right effort

Mundane: waiting, gardening, farming, the seasons, harvest

Divinations: Reward for positive action, plenty, peace, proper timing; or repetition, bad timing, poverty, conflict, regression.

Governs:
Fertility, creativity and harmony with the land
Peace, prosperity and plenty
Realization of the cyclical nature of the multiverse, invoking the power of time and cycles
Bringing other concepts gently into material manifestation
Initiating gradual and lasting change in flow of life.

My Notes:

The summer harvest was winter food, the seeds from the harvest became next summer’s crop. So while attentiveness to cultivation of the present moment is paramount, within the present moment lay the wisdom for future planning.

The cycle of the seasons is not so much associated with time, but the inflow and outflow of the land’s breath. The rhythms of sleep, dusk and dawn, the heartbeat, the breath, all these are keys into unlocking Jera’s subtle nature. Like Isa, Jera is has an unstoppable energy, gradual but unrelenting, unhurried but persistent, indifferent to human influence. Nature has a way of persistently marching on. Jera’s changes are not sudden or explosive, and cannot be forced. The key is making small, gradual changes every day, for the better. Taken alone these events may seem trivial, but they are cumulative and proceed forward with all the inevitability of earth’s journey around the sun.

Jera is a rune of patience and movement with the harmony with natural tides of life. Moving with such life rhythms brings abundance and plenty. The cyclical recurrences in the biosphere and of the astronomical procession spirals through time, and contains many more profound secrets than does our common involvement with linear time, calendar dates and the clock.

Jera has to do with right timing. Jera is in the maxim “This too shall pass”, the proverb, “As you sow, so shall you reap”, and in the modern adage, “time heals all wounds.” Using this rune is the key to understanding the mysteries of time and the psychological importance of dividing and managing time.  Deadlines bring out the best in us and motivate us to grow to levels beyond our present ability. It also moves us to strategically taking action when the time is right. Take advantage of the ups and coast through the downs.

Jera can magically speed things up or slow things down, and manipulation of subjective time in this manner is governed by this rune. In this rune we see the most stark western counter-point to the maxim ‘time is an illusion’. If a person sows no seeds, does no work, plants no goals and desire in his or her thoughts, Jera will bring about situations which reflect that lack. The ultimate consequences of past human action unfold into the future.
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Jupiter's cycle combines the numbers 12 and 13, a combination with endless significance; in plain terms, perfect divisibility vs hard prime.

12 feasts in 13 years.

Jera, the 12th Rune of the Futhark, stands at the threshold - see my entry of last month.
What it opens up once that threshold is crossed is represented by the 13th rune, Eihwaz.

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“The path is hard and lonely and there is no end to sight.”

Ihwaz (also: eihwaz) – “Yew-was” – Literally: “Yew” – Esoteric: Yggdrasil or Kundalini

“The axis or process of spiritual becoming.” Upper and lower worlds meeting in Midgard (earth). Rune of the mysteries of life and death.

Psi: death mysteries, the timeless, kundalini,

Energy: axis of heaven-earth-hel, secrecy, encoding, immortality, the chakra system (hvel)

Mundane: longevity, initiations, trees

Divinations: movement toward Enlightenment, endurance, initiation, protection; or confusion, destruction, dissatisfaction, weakness, death

Governs:
Initiation into the wisdom of the World Tree (Yggdrasil) and hvel (chakras)
Liberation from the fear of death.
Development of spiritual endurance and hard will to gain initiative
Spiritual vision
Communication between levels of reality – the Worlds or Yggdrasil

My Notes:

Eihwaz begins the second half of the 24 rune Futhark and represents the vertical axis, whereas Jera represents the horizontal. It is also indicative of the verticality and energy of the human spine. The spine (the pelvic region not included) has 24 vertebrae, which I do not believe is a coincidence in the case of the elder futhark.

The spine is the channel for one of the most powerful energy flows in the human psyche, which Yoga has termed Kundalini ‘fire’. It is the flow of megin energy up from the root hvel (chakra) to the crown hvel in the mind, bringing cosmic consciousness. Attempting to awaken Kundalini fire too early in your training can cause serious harm.

The needle of the yew is poisonous, containing a toxin that affects the central nervous system. The vapors from the toxin can become concentrated in close proximity to the tree. As a conifer/’evergreen’, it is associated with immortality, and the mysteries of life and death. Death is understood as the Great Initiation into the mysteries of life. To die before you die is to discover what in life is truly important. In psychology, this often happens as a result of near-death experiences.

The fear of physical death is one of the great inhibitors of humankind’s potential for total freedom of mind and spirit. Eihwaz gives you the power to recall your past lives, in short fragments or in more complete segments, and as a result confirm your death in this life as only one stage of a greater journey. Invoke Eihwaz as you conduct a meditation or dream exercise for the purpose of discovering past life patterns in the present. The answers lay not in memory, but in the clues of your here and now.

Eihwaz can be invoked for communication with the underworld and the dead. It is wisest to remain within your own ancestral stream when doing this, as your ancestors have reason to respond to your inner call. There should be sufficient reason to invoke such dark workings, but it is not an ‘evil’ exercise.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:10 pm

I think that's what happened. I tried to awaken my Kundalini fire too early.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:20 pm

Black Panther wrote:
My rune-postings here happened during the Jupiter-Sun conjunction in Virgo. I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb.

The particular day - 10th you made the first post on the uruz was merc. square pluto - investigative obsession, con(/fides.ential) job, the chthonic animal galloping across borders, stringent control of (information) flow [gravity] etc.

Another factor: Sept. 2015  dominated by Jupiter opposite Neptune (Neptune on the fixed star Deneb Adige) - intuitive revelations, uncollectable/irretrievable wealth through fine-arts, fluid visions, overwhelmed by hypersensitivity, drugs, alco, getting lost in fogs, hiding in fogs, unclarified luck from water and the subconscious, mist-icism, surrounded in a fog by duplicitous friends and their joviality, unrealistic blindspots, generosity without discrimination and ending up deceived, over-sentimentality, buttery steamy soups, messianic dreams or callings for pilgrimage to exotic places across waters, lady of the lake graces...

Crowley's was natal and it shows in his 'deceptive-religion', illumined vision of spirit mediums, literally
"love under the law". [I'm not sure but I think I recall Hefner is another - so 'dazzling' in his 'trend-setting 'style' statements, diktats…]
On the other hand, when Crowley himself remarked on planetary aspects, he cited Shelley as a case in point for the same. The "religion of humanity", Prometheus, etc.

Back to topic, sun-jupiter conjunctions - a random one in pisces:

March 2, 1939: Pope Pius the XII succeeded Pope Pius XI as the 260th Pope.

March 12, 1951: Hank Ketcham’s best-selling comic strip “Dennis the Menace” appeared in newspapers across the U.S. for the first time.

March 18, 1963: Gideon vs. Wainright – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the poor must have lawyers.

Effects appear very 'light'[jup] - 'hearted'[sun]…

Its why in the east, seething combustions are more carefully observed for… a conjunction is pedantically split up.
This is because in the west, we believe, a 10o is safe where the benign functionalities would be boosted through the aura of the sun, but in the east, as you well know, the cazimi is like an engulfing and it is the sun that is refracted through the 'prism' of jupiter lodged in the very heart of it.

Ancient festivities revolved more around full moon and new moon, but this standardization itself is a jupiterian wink ; )

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:29 pm

Quote :
It was a seethingly invigorating time.

I have just posted in the Under-world thread on the idea of Hephaestos as the wounded-artist.
Shaping of the horse-shoe luck is a forging in the cauldron of the midnight sun.
Detienne-Vernant speak of Hephaeustus' "metis" connecting his crooked intelligence with his crooked feet...
Hephaestus - was the Greek 'god' of blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals, metallurgy, fire and volcanoes. As a smithing god, Hephaestus made all the weapons of the gods in Olympus.

Blacksmiths and 'Fire-Forgers' ['consciousness-temperers'... 'sheen of sword-tempering'] like Hephaestus were looked upon as magicians and sorcerers for working with fire and dealing with the tempering of swords...

Quote :
"From the fire-place calls the old man,
Thus the gray-beard asks the minstrel:
"Tell me who thou art of heroes,
Who of all the great magicians?
Lo! thy blood fills seven sea-boats,
Eight of largest birchen vessels,
Flowing from some hero's veinlets,
From the wounds of some magician.
Other matters I would ask thee;
Sing the cause of this thy trouble,
Sing to me the source of metals,
Sing the origin of iron,
How at first it was created."

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The Fire-Forger looking into Dante's satano-centric abyss, ores mined from the deep-earth rings of time…
And they rightly called you Citizen Cane..

Quote :
"Just some thoughts about Cain and Iron-Workers in history:

In many cultures, iron-working was considered a transgression against the natural order, as can be seen in this quote from "The Forge and Crucible": "In India, as elswehere, a whole mythology classes iron-workers amont the various categories of giants and demons. All are enemies of the gods who represent other ages and other traditions" This seems to be true of Cain as well-Cain's descendants are a race of magicians or of supernatural beings-For instance, the monster Grendel in Beowulf was supposed to be a descendant of Cain.

For what reason is the blacksmith seen as demonic? The extraction of ore from the earth was seen, according to Mircea Eliade, as an act which violated the natural order. By digging underground, humanity was risking inviting the demoniac and chthonic forces, and was symbolically "killing" the metals that grew in the earth. Also, the act of forging a weapon used for killing could be seen to be analagous to killing itself-Thus, the blacksmith's act of heating and hammering the metal was seen as an act of killing.

Hence, the symbolism of Cain murdering his brother. This can be seen in ancient Greek myth regarding three brothers, who were smith daimons: "Two brothers put their third brother to death; they bury him beneath a mountain; his body changes to iron."The two brothers represented the hammer and the anvil, the third brother is the iron, which is slain by the other two, and forged into a weapon." The symbolism also recalls the legend of Romulus and Remus and other similar myths about fratricide.

Another reason why iron-working was viewed as demonic may be that the blacksmiths were seen as sorcerors who "stepped on the gods toes", so to speak, by using magic to forge weapons. Forging weapons and tools believed to have magical power, the miths were, by analogy, acting in the role of creator or demiurge, and perhaps this was a bit too close to self-deification for comfort. Note that in the book of enoch, Azazel was expelled from heaven for teaching humanity forbidden arts (most of a magical nature) which included the forging of weapons. The act of the blacksmith, like that of the alchemist, was viewed as analagous to the search for immortality, and therefore a violation of the traditional boundary of man and god. Here's a quote from Joseph Campbell regarding this point:

"These first shamans became the itinerant blacksmiths, who in later mythic lore appeared as dangerous wizards producing "immortal thunderbolt matter" made from crude rock. Miracle of miracles, it was "analogous to that of spiritual, whereby the individual learns to identify himself with his own immortal part.""[Galactica Publishings]

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I extrapolate it to the "kali yuga" or the Iron Age... when everything has become so "instrumentalized"... Marshall McLuhann's "the medium is the medium": [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
Ansuz
Thrice thrice hail

***
**
*

Iii-Aaa

Hephaestos rides an ass… also sacred to hestia.

"For falling to a devilish exercise,
And glutted now with learning’s golden gifts,
He surfeits upon cursed necromancy." [Christopher Marlowe, The Tragedie of Doctor Faustus]

Quote :
"Necromancy (Latin necromantia, Greek νεκρομαντία nekromantía) is a form of divination in which the practitioner seeks to raise the spirits of the dead in order to gain knowledge of future events from them, or to acquire special powers from such entities. The word derives from the Greek νεκρός nekrós “dead” and μαντεία manteía “divination”. It has a subsidiary meaning reflected in an alternative and archaic form of the word, nigromancy, (a folk etymology using Latin niger, “black”) in which the magical force of “dark powers” is gained from or by acting upon corpses. A practitioner of necromancy is a necromancer."

Necromancy upon cap-Abel corpse…, the yielding iron 'put to death'…

In the Odyssey (XI, Nekyia), wodhANsuz Odysseus makes a voyage to Hades, the Underworld, and "raises the spirits of the dead using spells which he had learnt from Circe."

Hermetic messenger Odin:  The root of “cunning” from Old English “cunnan”- “to know”, evolved into “konnyng” –  “clever, learned or skillful.” Being dexterous.

dexterity – from L. dexteritatem – “readiness, skillfulness, prosperity”, from dexter “skillful,” also “right (hand)” from PIE base *deks- “on the right hand”, hence “south” to one facing east (cf. Skt. daksinah “on the right hand, southern, skillful;” Avestan dashina- “on the right hand;” Gk. dexios “on the right hand,” also “fortunate, clever”; O.Ir. dess “on the right hand, southern”; Welsh deheu; Gaulish Dexsiva, name of a goddess of Fortune; Goth. taihswa; Lith. desinas; O.C.S. desnu, Rus. desnoj).

Like Dexsiva, the Indo-Aryan goddess of Fortune, ‘Sri’ is Prosperity incarnate. She is affiliated with the black earth, as gold-en gleaming Maia is to Vulcan- of the black earthen lava. Alf Hiltebeitel, in The Ritual of Battle remarks,

Quote :
“Sri’s meanderings, in accord with nothing unless it be the rhythm of Time… is unfaithful to those she favours. Coomaraswamy points out [‘Early Indian Iconography: Sri-Lakshmi’, p.178], this theme of fickleness later reaches such a height that “she is described as so unstable that ‘even in a picture she moves’, and if she clings to Vishnu, it is only that she may enjoy His constant changes of form!” …Vishnu-Krishna is thus the refuge of every omnivirtuous monarch or claimant to the sovereignty which… Sri incarnate, represents on earth.”

The Titan Mnemosyne, Greek for Memory, and mother of the Muses by Zeus, was equated by the Romans with Moneta, from Gk./Lat. Monere ‘to ReMind, warn, instruct’ possibly the instability of wealth, in her role as the goddess of coinage. Moneta, Latin for “mint” at the forge, is the origin of the words money, mint and monetary. Consider the metis at play here – to ‘invent’ a term, a ‘name’ is also to ‘coin’ it. To ‘name-craft’ is not only to create a memory henceforth but also to re-present memory; i.e. to presence a ‘memory’ in a ‘renewed mask’. To ‘name-craft’ was to presence a Wealth, and a Luck. Vilhelm Gronbeck [‘Culture of the Teutons’] writes;

Quote :
“At the point where the new-born child is adopted by the clan he is brought into contact with the power that resides in the possessions of the race. When the father gives the little one a name, …[he] determines his fate by speaking a soul into him. …and what happens at the ceremony is nothing more nor less than this; that the portion of luck and soul which is set in the name is actually hung upon the bearer, and by contact set in himself. …With the honourable surname, the giver, by virtue of his own surplus of luck, set something new into the receiver… Any wish, any blessing, was to a certain extent akin to this naming, inasmuch as their power lay in a psychic transference of what lay in the words. …a family could not appropriate a name without the right involved by spiritual alliance. All the hamingja that belongs to the allied family lies open to the clan.”

The Plutonic “underworld” also denotes crime, ‘criminals’, tricksters, ‘invisibly’ facon+ing [facere, face, factio, fashioning] society, ‘fascinating’, binding, ‘seizing’ power of mass-control…
Ansuz - the power of naming is a binding, grasping. Odin, the warrior-poet of magical fettering. A word is a noose, but bringing forth the buried luck  and life-force of ancestral breath, or luck generated through the ancestral line…
The serpent fire, the fire of Cain, is also called the Cunning Fire. Yeats’ ‘Fire in the Head’ – numinous light, is access to our dai-mon-ic essence…
The coin bearing the head of the sovereign law was the head and the law literally.
Memory, To reMind, to warn - a "foreboding".

Philosophy at the "mouth of the estuary"(ansuz) begins as a deep wonder turning to a fore-boding.

Zarathustra's ass-festival com-memorates a fore-boding of the Overman.
The real sanctity/regal seal of a festival is not in the hospitality and feasting per se, but to gather a shared vision of and around a foreboding, such that every one feels they have been alloted the same share of fate, the same elevation, despite unequal luck.

Quote :
"A hierophant (Ancient Greek: ἱεροφάντης) is a person who brings religious congregants into the presence of that which is deemed holy, from the combination of ta hiera, "the holy," and phainein, "to show."

The Hierophant [V] / Pope as Satyr, than saint.

Nietzsche wrote:
"The satyr was man’s true prototype, an expression of his highest and strongest aspirations. He was an enthusiastic reveller, filled with transport by the approach of the god…" [BOT]

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Water forge - Word/Wyrd forge - Weapon forge.

Ansuz is mouth of an estuary from which water/life flows… and orders everything around it - laguz.
Heidegger spoke of the river gathering together a polis around its flow.

Naming rites couldn't be performed without sprinkling of water from holy wells and fountains with dragon-mouths guarding the luck, treasure or the vitality…
Fire-breathing dragons were "seething cauldrons".
As much as one-eyed odin looking into the wells of time and the wizard's mouth, also one-legged Hephaestos looking into the dragon's mouth.

The wounded artist.

Odin: Word : eye<>mouth
Hephaestos: Weapon : leg<>arm

Laguz, law, lore:

Quote :
The Tree of Life, known as Yggdrasil: Ygg's horse, carries the weight of the world on its back. Worlds upon worlds are found in its branches and among its roots. The Tree suffers cruelly from all the creatures living on it. But the Yggdrasil ash does not die. It is sustained by three sources of HOLY water, translated variously as wells, springs or lakes and known as the Well of Wyrd.

The Old English Wyrd is the source of the modern English word 'weird.' In Old English Wyrd wasn’t weird at all. It was a title, an honorific, so revered that it appeared in Old English Christian texts as the word for God, the Holy Trinity or Lord. Now it refers to anything odd or a bit wicked, but this meaning is relatively recent. To 5thcentury Anglo-Saxons, Wyrd was actually an ancient ‘point of view about reality,’ writes Tom Graves.
Wyrd-lore is older than English. It can be traced back to Norse poets and story-tellers who regarded its teachings so important that they retold it generation after generation:

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Mimisbrunnr: the Well of Wisdom, is tended by Mimir a wise giant.He stands waist deep in water, supporting mountains on his powerful shoulders. Mimir, whose name means 'memory,' embraces all experience. Odin gave one of his eyes to Mimir for a drink from this well. Hanging upside down on Yggdrasil for nine days, Odin read the well's secret knowledge. He never smiled again, but he shared his insights. It is said that Odin's well-inspired rune lore can lift the human spirit out of chaos.

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Hvergelmir: a Seething Cauldron, source of all the worlds' rivers, reaches deep into the cold underworld of Hel. Though small in stature, sons of Ivaldi, defend Hvergelmir from the raids of storm giants. Above this well, lives a serpent or dragon, Níðhöggr: Striker in the Dark. It is said Níðhöggr secretly gnaws at the root of the Tree of Life and it would destroyed if it weren't for the Wyrd-lore that constantly repairs the damage.

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Urðarbrunnr: the Well of the Wyrd, reaches high into the world of Asgard, a sky-world full of Aesir: the pillars of deity, heroes and wise elders. Three of these, sisters known as Norns or Wyrds, rose from the sky-world to dwell in a hall near the well. Each day, the sisters collect holy white clay from the base of the tree and mix it with waters they draw from the well.
These life-charged waters are said to be so holy that whatever falls into them will turn clear as egg-white. It is said that all deeds of life are washed into the Well of Wyrd and mix with the many past deeds of kith and kin. This recycling of deeds is called Orlog, the collectiveWyrd which has been laid down in layers to be drawn up by the scrying Wyrd sisters.

ENGLISH AND LAKE-LAW-LAY
The English words 'law' and 'lay' come from the 'log' part of Orlog,which also forms the Anglo-Saxon sacred rune 'lagu,' often translated as 'lake.' 'Law' is something which has been 'laid down,' says lexicographer John Ayto. But there's more to the primary meaning oflog: it's 'life energy' or Waters of Life.

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Water, to the Anglo-Saxon mind, was the law of the land! Water sprinkled in blessing over the newborn or a young warrior was believed to be drawn from this primal layered life-law-lake, charmed and charged as it was with the guiding wisdom of the Sky-world.
Since this ancient water-lore-law was the very life within beings, and since Orlog was a conductive medium between the worlds of human and ancestor-heroes, law did not need to be imposed by any external authority. Law lay within as lore.

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Each day, the Wyrds pour their elixir of Orlog over the World Tree, so nothing will wither away. It is said that these waterings cause honeydew to fall, keeping alive the world around the well. Each day, it is said, the Aesir ride to the Weird's Well to hold court on the deeds of humanity. Whether demon or deity, everyone contributes to and feels the sacred influence of the waters of the Wyrd.


SWANS ON THE LAKE OF WYRD

Across the Well of the Wyrd, it is said that glide two swans. They curve elegant necks beneath the waters to drink. From these two, all swans are said to be descended. 'Swan' and 'sound' come from the same source, 'swan' meaning 'to sing or make sound.' It is said thatspae-wight guardians take the form of swans to protect the Wyrd of humans. The bond between spae-wight and human is like that of lovers: honorable deeds strengthen their marriage, while broken promises muddy the waters that flow between them.

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The names Wyrd, Urtha, and Verdandi all share the same source, an Old Norse verb verðr: to turn, wind, grow or become. This verb gave rise to the English suffix '-ward,' as in 'forward,' and 'worth' which originally meant 'towards.' In this way, Wyrd is an orientation in the world. Since both Wyrd and Urðr are the past-tense of verðr, they denote orientation towards the collective wisdom of the past. With no future tense, Skuld comes from the Norse skole/skulle: what needs or ought to be. Her name in Old English is Scyld:promise, obligation or debt, is related to the Modern English ‘should.’ Her power is found in the necessities that cannot be evaded, the vows that cannot be broken: matters of life and death.

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It is said that the three Wyrds visit all at birth. The first two bestow blessings, while the third brings a contract with life that must be honoured: many call it a curse.
In Wyrd-lore, personal reality is understood to never solely be our own, for it is determined not only by the collective acts of individuals, past and present, but by society as a whole. PersonalWyrd may be blighted by kith, kin, hound, human, demon or deity, but it is blessed by our own courage and actions. The realization that deeds flow into a Well from which all others will draw, urged the Anglo-Saxon to lay down a Wyrd that is good for all. The wise Anglo-Saxon remembered that the Wyrd watered the tap-root of the Yggdrasil Tree that supports all Life. Old Germanic cultures were orientented towards the past, understanding its power to nourish and shape the present. The connection between the past and present was maintained by the keepers of the Language and Lore. Old Germanic languages had no future tense. The future, as we know it, didn’t exist. Any sense of future was generated from the Wyrd-Orlog layers of past relationships. So, Time was not linear. It was a tide: cyclic like the turning of the stars, the phases of the moon and the daily path of the sun."

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Sanctification: Naming and Anointing

Quote :
""River Worship.

Pindar's twice delivered maxim, 'water is the best thing', 'best' not in comparison with wine or other liquids which in its widest sense it included but best of all things. For it is the elemental liquid, the life-substance. Homer tells us that the hair which Achilles put into the hand of Patroklos was to have been offered to the river Spercheios in his fatherland.

It is a custom reported elsewhere in early Greece that on attainment of puberty a lock at least of a youth's hair was cut off and offered to the neighbouring river. We can now see why. At puberty the psuche of the body, the liquid that is life and that issues in new life, has been brought to fullness, thanks mainly to the local god of liquid, the life-giving stream, which has in fact produced not only the water he has drunk but also in large degree that which he has absorbed in plants—'wine and barley-groats, the marrow of men', etc.—and animals nourished thereby.

'The rivers are regarded as youth rearers because the liquid gives growth', say the scholia about Achilles and Spercheios, and go on to tell us that the ancients 'used to bring the bath for the bridegroom from a river as an omen of seed or procreation'; while another source tells us that it was customary for the bride-groom to go to the local river to bathe and sprinkle himself with its water, 'praying by this token for the begetting of children since the water is life-begetting and generative', i.e. water from a river is, represents or confers seed.
'Bathe, foment', as if thereby infusing psuche. With this rite for the bridegroom we should relate that for the bride as reported from the Troad.: When marrying she had to go to the local river, Scamander, and bathing herself with its water, said, as if it were something holy, 'Take, Scamander, my virginity'. The record of this implies similar happening with the river Maeander in Magnesia. Spercheios and other rivers appear in the Homeric poems chiefly as fathers of ordinary mortals by mortal women."

"After strenuous effort and sweating a bath seemed to restore vitality:

Plautus says mihi...prae lassitudine opusest (ut) lavem (True. 328) and again: Charinus. at tu edepol sume laciniam atque absterge sudorem tibi.
Cf. medullam lassitudo perbibit (Stick. 3 4 0 ); defessus omnibus medullis (Catull. LV, 30), etc.

We can also now better understand anointing, the application to the body of oily liquids or unguents, practised from the Homeric age onwards usually after the bath. It is generally dismissed as part of the toilet, cleansing and perhaps perfuming the skin or 'so that the skin might not be left harsh and rough', but was, I suggest, thought to feed, to introduce into the body through the pores, the stuff of life and strength, which appears to come out through the pores in the form of sweat. The head, seat of strength, seems to sweat most,' and was apparently in Homeric times, as later, specially anointed.

Sweat itself might be used. The Nubians suppose it will give them strength to apply the sweat of their horses to their own bodies. After a ride they scrape off the sweat from their horses' backs with the hand and rub it about their persons as if it were one of their ordinary greasy ointments.' Anointing was thought so essential to a Greek athleteI that it came to mean 'to be in training for athletics'. Sweating, as we saw," was naturally regarded as the issuing of the watery cerebro-spinal liquid or lymph and of marrow or fat, the liquefiable element, the stuff of life and strength, from the body.

'Why is it that the fat is consumed in those who exert themselves?' ask the Problemata. 'Is it because fat melts when heated?'
'Unguent', is for Homer animal fats but the analogous plant substance, the oil of the olive, was also used. It is possible in England to experience the penetrative virtue of goose-grease or camphorated oil or, if one is an athlete, olive-oil itself, and our twentieth-century life-essence, vitamin-vehicle, cod-liver oil is now absorbed by inunction. If we realise that the Greeks thought of unguents essentially as penetrating, we can also understand how 'anointing' can be used by Aeschylus in the sense of 'penetrate, pierce'.

'Why is it that fatigue ceases more readily if one mixes water with the oil with which one rubs oneself?' continue the ProblemataJ 'Is it because the oil sinks in more when mixed with water but by itself does not penetrate so well because of a tendency to remain on the surface?' So too among the Romans. Thus Plautus speaks of 'filling a man up' (repplere) with unguents; and of those who are exhausted Petronius writes:

intraverunt palaestritae complures et nos legitimo perfusos oleo refecerunt. utcumque ergo lassitudine abiecta cenatoria repetimus.

When Democritus, who was fond of eating honey, was asked 'how one might live in health', he replied 'by moistening one's inside with honey, one's outside with olive-oil.
External application does not trouble the stomach and may have seemed a more direct and economic way to recruit the layer of fat (just beneath the skin) that appears to exude in sweat.

We have seen that the distinctive importance of the head for the earliest Greeks, Romans, etc., was that it contained
the stuff of life, the seed, and in it the procreative life-soul, and that cerebrum is related to cereo, cerus, etc., and expressive of procreation, fertility. That we may now see to be the root meaning of cornu, horn, Him (='brain'), etc. There was a further reason why horns should be connected with procreation. Not only does castration produce marked change in the growth of horn but also, just as hair was believed to be an outcrop of the procreative power since it grows upon the face and pubes at puberty, so it was observed that horns tend to develop fully at a similar stage. Not only are horns thus an outcrop of the procreative power but their use is largely sexual. Quoting many examples Darwin declared that 'tusks and horns appear in all cases to have been primarily developed as sexual weapons', i.e. for use by the male to defeat rivals in approaching the female.

We may confirm our explanation of the horns in Cretan cult and at the same time explain what also has not hitherto been satisfactorily explained, virtually the only horn or horns separated from the head in Greek myth, the 'horn of plenty'. It was Cretan, the horn of Amaltheia, foster-mother of Zeus. Why was a horn believed to be the source of new-born creatures, fruits, etc.—fertile cornu. Because it was itself an embodiment of the seed, the procreative power. The 'horn of plenty' was a symbol of the genius and sometimes represented containing phalli. Thus we can also explain the alternative legend that it was the horn of the prime river-god Acheloos. A river was itself the fertilising liquid of life with which the head and its other outcrop, hair, were particularly associated. The horn of Amaltheia was believed to be the source of the fertilising liquid above, rain.

The ancient Germanic peoples here in the North had names for brain and horn cognate to the Greek and Roman names.
In some counties 'to have got the horn' = ' to lust, be lustful' and the epithet 'horny' meant 'amorous'. There is clear evidence that early Greeks, e.g. Archilochus, referred to the male organ itself as 'horn', and Aristotle in fact explained thereby.

In any case, if 'horn' had in early times such sexual significance, we can understand, as it has not been possible hitherto, how a man's wife, who receives lovers, prostituting herself, could be said 'as the saying is, to make horns for him'. She thus supplements him. Possibly there is a joking suggestion also of her working for his benefit. From such an idiom it would be but a step to say that the husband who 'has many a Paris in his house' has horns.
Mediaeval poems (e.g. in the thirteenth century) show a belief that a horn grew upon the forehead of him whose wife had received a lover. Presently it was a custom in England and elsewhere in Europe for neighbours to put actual horns upon the head of the husband, apparently to show with what his wife had supplemented him. Possibly on occasion the association of horns with the pugnacious anger of the sexual element played a part. In The Story of Rimini Leigh Hunt describes how an enemy
'Had watched the lover to the lady's bower And flew to make a madman of her lord.'
The putting of horns upon the head of the patient cuckold might by some be intended to endow him with that which he seemed to lack, sexual power and pugnacity, what belonged to the element in the head.

Their use of cerebrum and cerebrosus implies that for the Romans to have more brain was to have more of the substance active in aggressive anger, and the conception traced of the horns as an outcrop of that sub stance will help us to understand Ovid's reference to his becoming angry at last because his mistress receives other lovers, Virgil's irasci in cornual of a bull extending its anger into its horns.
Thus also we can better understand the virtues attributed to the horn of the unicorn or' Scythian ass' (i.e. rhinoceros). It was the concentrated substance of the procreative element from the animal that was the supreme embodiment of procreative power. Aelian tells of the Arcadian Styx that no vessel could hold it, not even iron ones, none except the
horns of Scythian asses. In mediaeval belief a unicorn could not be caught by force or skill but would run to a maiden's bosom.

Romans shared the belief that there is in the body a liquid, a 'sap' (sucus) on which life depends, giving the body its fullness and drying up into the leanness of old age, a liquid associated with sexual power. Such a liquid would naturally be related to and be the concern of the life-soul to which sexual power belongs, the genius, as it was to the Greek psuche. This will explain many expressions from the time of Plautus, which imply that to take nourishment, i.e. vita was to benefit one's genius and to take little or none was to rob one's genius, expressions which do not easily fit earlier theories that the genius is just the procreative power in man or the luck of the family, an external guardian spirit, etc. For Plautus he who serves up food sparingly 'wages war upon' (True. 183) or 'cheats (defrudat)'! his genius; on the other hand a man intending to obtain a feast says: 'I shall do a lot of good to my genius (genio meo multa bonafaciam)'; to the man who knows how to dine, one says: 'You are pretty wise as to how to treat your genius (multum sapis ad genium)'.

In such passages the genius does not, as has been suggested, represent 'the capacity for enjoyment', it is not a 'hypostatisation of the warmer desires it is not a matter of a man's genius being' pleased when he lives enjoyably', rather when his body is well nourished.

Conscious desire, whether for the pleasures of the table or indeed for sexual gratification, is a matter of the conscious self, the animus. The genius is a second party distinct from and not reflecting the conscious self. It is friendly or hostile as it is treated well or ill (cf. curare corpus, curare genium) by the latter. The need and inclination of the genius for what will replenish the life-liquid in the body is of course known to the conscious self. For Roman writers, in the man who is satur the sexual element is strong and active. To make concessions to that need and inclination is to 'indulge one's genius'. The man who does is genialis, while he who does not is aridus, 'dry'. Both parties may be mentioned. In Plautus the man who is thus aridus who has lived on niggardly fare, confesses 'I have defrauded myself, my animus and my genius'; while three centuries later Martial says to such a one 'You have neither heart nor genius'.

We can now understand why one who looked after his genius, eating a great deal, was not only termed genialis but in Plautus' time was nicknamed 'Capito', 'Head', as if that were all that mattered for him (cf. gula, gulo, etc.); and a curious fragment of Lucilius can thus, perhaps, be better appreciated: 'he himself destroys the head that has been nourished.

To age was to lose flesh, i.e. to lose liquid, to 'dry up'.

Thus, to convert Odysseus into an old man, Athene 'dried up the fair flesh on his pliant limbs, destroyed the yellow hair from his head, set the skin of an old man on all his limbs, and bleared his eyes that before were beautiful'.

'No longer do you bloom the same in your soft flesh; for it is drying up already' says Archilochus.

'Hated old age is withering and drying me up', says Sophron, and again 'shrivelled skin instead of a man'.

Hippo, who identified the life-principle with the 'water' of the cerebro-spinal marrow, thought that 'there is in us our own liquid (or "moisture") according to which we are sensible and by which we live; when this liquid is in its proper condition, the living creature is healthy, but when it is dried up, the living creature lacks sense and dies; on this account indeed old men are dry and lack sense because they are without liquid.

The observations which seem to have determined the traditional system reappear. For Aristotle 'the living creature is by nature moist ("liquid") and warm, and to live is to be such, but old age is cold and dry and so is what has died... it is inevitable that one who grows old should dry up. Thus in the courts to allot different lengths of time to individuals, different amounts of water were allotted to them, and as 'his water' ran out, the allotted time of each ran out, so that we get phrases like 'during my water'. The conception of the life as diminishing liquid inside a man will explain such language as that of Sophocles' Electra:

'Dropping myself at this gate friendless I shall dry up my life', such turns of thought as that of the comic poet Antiphanes:' The life in us (lit. "of us ") approximates to wine; when but little remains it becomes vinegar', is amplified by a nameless epigrammatist : 'Of sweet wine if a little be left in vessels, this that is left turns into sour. So when he has drained away the whole of life and comes to old age at the bottom, the old man becomes sour-bile(d) (or 'quick to anger'.

Lucilius speaks of old men as if they were raisins: rugosi passique series.

Wine was in a peculiar degree equated to, identified with the life-fluid, and not less in Italy than in Greece. The Romans believed in a diminishing 'sap' (sucus) or liquid oflife in the body as in a plant, and Trimalchio, when century-old wine is served, says: 'Alas, alas; then wine lives longer than a man (homuncio, "manikin"). Wherefore let us moisten ourselves. Life is wine (vita vinum est) '.
The ancient Roman festival of the spirit of the year, Anna Perenna, on the Ides of March is now more intelligible. Its distinctive feature was that the assembled crowd drank wine 'and they pray for as many years as they take ladles full and they drink up to that number. There you will find a man who drinks up the years of Nestor, a woman who has been made a Sibyl by her cups' (i.e. very long-lived). And at other times of the year to a friend, as he was drinking wine, it was customary to cry 'May you live', i.e. 'Life to you'. 'Vivas', 'Bibe multis annis', etc. were inscribed on wine cups.

In this same thought doubtless lies also the origin of the ancient custom of drinking a little from a full cup of wine and then bestowing it upon one to whom one wishes well.
In Greece the bride's father (or the bride) gave the cup of wine thus to the bridegroom. Thus Pindar says: 'Even as when a man gives from wealthy hand a cup bubbling within with the dew of the vine to the young man, the bridegroom, drinking therefrom first and giving it from home to home, all golden, the head of his possessions, drinking with him and honouring the connection... so I am sending liquid nectar...'.
That this was a gift of the liquid of life is confirmed in a variation of the custom. The drinking of a little before makes of it a 'communion', a sharing of the same life. So in Homer one honours another by holding out one's cup of wine for him to take and drink therefrom.

At the ancient Roman festival of the year wine was drunk and the amount of wine was the amount of life. Ovid calls it festum geniale. This thought perhaps explains why the sacrifice to one's genius, one's life-spirit, consisted primarily or exclusively of wine. Horace tells of 'the genius appeased with wine on holidays' and how 'the farmers of old... used to propitiate Earth with a pig, Silvanus with milk, and the genius, mindful of life's briefness, with flowers and wine'. 'Pour wine for your genius" is Persius' terse command. The traditional connection persisted. When at the close of the fourth century Theodosius I formally suppressed paganism, he forbade
'honouring the Lar with fire, the genius with wine, the Penates with incense' (larem igne, mero genium, penates odore veneratus).
A Roman honouring his genius touched his forehead: venerantes deum tangimusfrontem.
The brain with its fluid was the stuff, as the genius was the spirit, of life, of generation. Wine was apparently believed to go to the brain." [Onians, The Origins of European Thought]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:47 pm

Black Panther wrote:
The bastard is funny, no doubt about that. And "seething" was inviting the jokes. The ones who have investment in this thread will understand its reference.

Ansuz in reverse gives you what? But of course an encounter with the Loki…

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Odin and Loki are two diff. planetary tricksters.
Crooked wits.
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"The Donkey -and the mule- is in fact the recurrent animal in this book, he is the burden beast to who Le Corbusier attributes  the plan of all the pre-modern cities. According to the Swiss-French architect, the donkey by his zigzags’ tracks that “takes the lines of least resistance, drew the lines of the city. Modernity, on the contrary, advocates for the pure and sane orthogonality that celebrates the fact that “Man has made up his mind”. Le Corbusier’s obsessive pathology for sanity, is fully expressed here: Architecture and the City have to constitute thaumaturgic machines in which health is no longer a mean to perpetuate life but rather celebrated as a self-justified end.

In the following excerpt of this same chapter, Catherine Ingraham recounts Le Corbusier’s “mythopoetical account of the history of the city” and subtly  promotes a “bestial urbanism” that will lead her to write her next book Architecture, Animal, Human: The Asymmetrical Condition in 2006.

Ingraham wrote:
"Le Corbusier argues that orthogonality, the “orthogonal state of mind,” best expresses the spirit of the modern age. And he opposes the “regulating line” of human beings –orthogonal, geometric, measured (architectural, urbanistic)- to the path of the pack-donkey: “Man walks in a straight line because he has a goal and knows where he is going; he has made up his mind to reach some particular place and he goes straight to it. The pack-donkey meanders along, meditates a little in his scatter-brained and distracted fashion, he zigzags in order to avoid the larger stones, or to ease the climb, or to gain a little shade; he takes the line of least resistance.” Man thinks only of his goal. The pack-donkey thinks only of what will save him trouble. “The Pack-Donkey’s Way,” Le Corbusier goes on, “is responsible for the plan of every continental city.”

According to Le Corbusier’s mythopoetical account of the history of the city, the covered wagons of an invading population “lumbered along at the mercy of bumps and hollows, of rocks or mire [and] in this way were born roads and tracks.” These early tracks are made according to a “donkey’s idea” of how to move from one point to another. Along these tracks, houses are “planted,” and eventually these houses are enclosed by city walls and gates. “Five centuries later another larger enclosure is built, and five centuries later still a third yet greater.” The great cities, built according to this first track heedlessly traced out on an inhospitable landscape, have a multitude of small connective capillaries. For cities clogged by these intersection capillaries, Le Corbusier recommends “surgery”: cutting out central corridors (arteries) so that the “bodily fluids” of the cities can flow. The straight line that cuts through the congestion of the pack-donkey’s way is, according to Le Corbusier, “a positive deed, the result of self-mastery. It is sane and noble.”

The pack –donkey recurs as a motif throughout The City of Tomorrow: in a later section on nature, whose material body is described as chaotic (the beast) but whose spirit is described as orderly (human rationality); in an account of the human body as a “fragmentary and arbitrary shape” but a pure and orderly idea; in an account of nations “overcoming their animal existence”; in an account of the supremacy of orthogonality; and so one. The pack-donkey is the figure –in these (and others) fables- of a disorderly nature, of the chaotic and diseased body, of a barbaric architectural and urban past.
The donkey makes the “ruinous, difficult and dangerous curve of animality” and typifies the “looseness and lack of concentration” of human beings in distraction –that is, the primitive or nonmodern human being. The donkey in all of these guises threatens the triumph of geometry –an urbanism and an architecture of geometry, of positive action, of overcoming and ascending to power(nationhood), of sanity, nobility, and self-mastery." [Architecture and the Burdens of Linearity]



Quote :
In any case. I am determined to create a religion of cycles, a ring to cohere man under, and a religion can only be carried by those who communicate with subtler things than semantic hermeticism.

It is in a sense a reconfiguration of being through altering the way in which time binds our notions of culture and self together.


Integrity through the rings of time, shedding karma through every act, a little saturnalia…



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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:47 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Zoot Allures wrote:
Quote :
I take the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb. It was a seethingly invigorating time.

Well what do you know. I thought I was the only one who thinks the conjunction of the Sun with a 10 degree orb is a seethingly invigorating time.


You ought to learn some manners before the altar young man.
They call me "citizen cane".



Citizen Cane so different from cap/Able…


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:39 pm

I admire the trickster to an extent, this trickster in particular has had some real opportunities to prove his wits. That he is still passionately defending Wittgenstein and Spinoza is a tribute.

The occult is a feminine work, the harder, simpler tribes would not allow men near such soft-making things. Odinic listening is not the same as Seidr, the latter is the circumference of the former.

Jupiter-Sun is obviously a case of light-ness, but not without severity. The pope is the shadow of the Caesar. Even the shadow doesn't pass lightly. But I am in favor of the attribution of light feet. A yearly feast, once ever 13 months. Is that not beautiful? 12 years of 13 months, man finally ascending the Zodiac.

Jupiter-Pluto is the most powerful combination for enduring power explosions, such as Communism or Microsoft. Saturn is grave. He creates his cycles regardless of our will. But Jupiter is light as you say, 'excess' as some capably attribute it, and thus responsive.

Think about that.
I'm not entirely disregarding the idea of the opposition though - but Jupiter oppositions tend to be of such pure excess that it would have to be orgiastic feasts.
Hell, why not two feasts a year?
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:54 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Jupiter-Sun is obviously a case of light-ness, but not without severity. The pope is the shadow of the Caesar. Even the shadow doesn't pass lightly. But I am in favor of the attribution of light feet. A yearly feast, once ever 13 months. Is that not beautiful? 12 years of 13 months, man finally ascending the Zodiac.

Jupiter-Pluto is the most powerful combination for enduring power explosions, such as Communism or Microsoft. Saturn is grave. He creates his cycles regardless of our will. But Jupiter is light as you say, 'excess' as some capably attribute it, and thus responsive.

Think about that.
I'm not entirely disregarding the idea of the opposition though - but Jupiter oppositions tend to be of such pure excess that it would have to be orgiastic feasts.
Hell, why not two feasts a year?



Boils down to… Roman Caesar [Jup] + the Christ [Sol]?

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:58 pm

There is singular opportunity for a cyclic feast in the choice of Jupiter, due to his manageable 12 year course that gives the 13 month year.

12 is the old cosmic order of all the earths peoples.
13 is that which lies beyond, Pluto, the forbidding, the other, the angle and hook, the end where it all begins anew as the threads emanating from a central Earthquake. 12 is the web of light. The thunder occurs at 13, this is Eihwaz. That which isn't seen but heard, felt rolling underneath.

(Dogs bark)

"Boils down to… Roman Caesar [Jup] + the Christ [Sol]?"

I can live with that.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:12 pm

Black Panther wrote:
12 is the old cosmic order of all the earths peoples.
13 is that which lies beyond, Pluto, the forbidding, the other, the angle and hook, the end where it all begins anew as the threads emanating from a central Earthquake. 12 is the web of light. The thunder occurs at 13, this is Eihwaz. That which isn't seen but heard, felt rolling underneath.

(Dogs bark)

The no. 13 is the 'death' card in the typical tarot - the 'yawning gap'.
So one sees the gap, the 0 and how crux-ial/cruc-ial/cross-ial/orthogonal it is.

The numbers are fine, but in the 18 set, 12 falls on Tyr, who is Odin's counterpart in the dual mode of law - open exoteric contractual [tyr] and hidden esoteric magic [odin].
GvL. describes this rune of coming down from the sacrifice as the rising phoenix, and tyr, tar as in *nek- (death) + tar- (to cross, to overcome).
The rune bears the saying, "fear not death, it cannot kill you."

The 13th falls on Berkana - the Birch rune.
GvL.: "when he goes into battle, he cannot fall,
no sword may strike him to the ground."

Man moving through 3 'bars' of life: bar [birth], bar [life as song], bar [bier, death]
If Ansuz was the Naming rite, here it is inheriting the Initial - The first movement.

Quote :
"The wild boys are calling
On their way back from the fire
In august moon's surrender to
A dust cloud on the rise
Wild boys fallen far from glory
Reckless and so hungered
On the razors edge you trail
Because there's murder by the roadside
In a sore afraid new world

They tried to break us,
Looks like they'll try again

Wild boys never lose it
Wild boys never chose this way
Wild boys never close your eyes
Wild boys always shine

You got sirens for a welcome
There's bloodstain for your pain
And your telephone been ringing while
You're dancing in the rain
Wild boys wonder where is glory
Where is all you angels
Now the figureheads have fell
And lovers war with arrows over
Secrets they could tell

They tried to tame you
Looks like they'll try again

Wild boys never lose it
Wild boys never chose this way
Wild boys never close your eyes
Wild boys always shine" [Duran Duran]

Quote :
"As through the air in the dark came a thunder,
- a howling horde on ferocious horses,
It raced over woods to the wedding house,
Intended to visit the bloody performance.
Then horns blew, and an awesome noise
From bells and riding-gear resounded.
Now it was close - it came over the hill -
There was an outcry: The wild hunt of Asgard!"

"The Wild Hunt is an ancient folk myth prevalent across Northern, Western and Central Europe.
The fundamental premise in all instances is the same: a phantasmal, spectral group of huntsmen with the accoutrements of hunting, with horses and hounds in mad pursuit across the skies or along the ground, or just above it.
The hunters may be the dead or the fairies (often in folklore connected with the dead). The hunter may be an unidentified lost soul, a deity or spirit of either gender, or may be a historical or legendary figure like Theodoric the Great, the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag, the Welsh psychopomp Gwyn ap Nudd or the Germanic Woden (or other reflections of the same god, such as Alemannic Wuodan in Wuotis Heer ("Wuodan's Army") of Central Switzerland, Swabia etc.)
It has been variously referred to as Wilde Jagd (German: "wild hunt/chase") or Wildes Heer (German: "wild army"), Herlaþing (Old English: "Herla's assembly"), Woden's Hunt, Herod's Hunt, Cain's Hunt,the  Devil's Dandy Dogs (in Cornwall), Gabriel's Hounds (in northern England),[6] Ghost Riders (in North America), Mesnée d'Hellequin (Old North French: "household of Hellequin"), Cŵn Annwn (Welsh: "hounds of Annwn"), divoký hon or štvaní (Czech: "wild hunt", "baiting"), Dziki Gon or Dziki Łów (Polish), Oskoreia or Åsgårdsreia (Norwegian: "ride of Asgard"), Estantiga (from Hoste Antiga, Galician: "the old army"), Hostia, Compaña and Santa Compaña ("troop, company") in Galicia, and güestia in Asturias.
Seeing the Wild Hunt was thought to presage some catastrophe such as war or plague, or at best the death of the one who witnessed it. Mortals getting in the path of or following the Hunt could be kidnapped and brought to the land of the dead. A girl who saw Wild Edric's Ride was warned by her father to put her apron over her head to avoid the sight. Others believed that people's spirits could be pulled away during their sleep to join the cavalcade.
In Germany, where it was also known as the "Wild Army", or "Furious Army", its leader was given various identities, including Wodan (or "Woden"), Knecht Ruprecht (cf. Krampus), Berchtold (or Berchta), and Holda (or "Holle"). The Wild Hunt is also known from post-medieval folklore. ...
Otto Höfler (1934) and other authors of his generation emphasized the identification of the hunter with Odin, looking for the traces of an ecstatic Odin cult in more recent customs from German-speaking areas.
In view of this, John Lindow of the University of California, Berkeley (Lindahl et al. 2002:433) notes that more recent scholarship "would argue a basis in an Indo-European warrior cult in which young warriors imbued with the life force fight with the characteristics of animals, especially, those of wolves, and are initiated into a warrior band [...]."

As we approach the time of SAMHAIN (pronounced 'sah-win'), when the boundries dividing the "realm of the Dead" from that of the living are supposedly almost nonexistent, many people decorate their environment with images designed to instill fear and evoke terror. Samhain, the Celtic Feast of the Dead, the End-of-Summer Fire Festival, or the beginning of the dark part of the 'New' year. At this time, the ancestors are honored and return to claim their portion.
Of all these images which evoke terror, none is more enduring and widespread than that of "The Wild Hunt". The myth of the Wild Hunt can be seen in many countries, and exists in England, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Scandinavia, and Iceland, among other places. Simply put, the Wild Hunt is a procession of beings led by a spirit who roam through the countryside reveling, hunting, killing or eating everything in their path.

"There was a tempest in Heaven and Earth,
That hurled a horror in every heart,
It blasted along in growing circles,
It punched with wings and grabbed with arms.
Then Wolf was dragged away by his hair,
thrown up in the air and taken away,
Yes, taken away over woods and mountains,
He was never seen or heard of again." [Johan Sebastian Welhaven, Asgardsreien (The Wild Hunt)]

Throughout Ireland there are tales of monsters that appear at Samhain and that must be killed by a hero. These can be shown to have an Indo-European heritage. ... They seem to point toward a proto-Irish myth associated with Samhain. It is the story of a malevolent being or beings, who comes from outside the world (from a sidhe or over or under the sea) at Samhain and lays waste to the world. This being is triple in some form(three heads, three ravens, three hearts, three spurts of blood). He is finally destroyed by a hero who is in some sense an outsid­er as well (Amairgein, Finn, Caoilte, Lugh) with a thrown weapon (spear, sling-stone, chessmen). That this event results in a renewal of the world is not stated, but is implied...
the warrior is a force for destruction who must be incorporated into society. What I wish to emphasize here, however, are the cosmological implications. Cosmos cannot last. It must always eventually crumble before the powers of chaos which chip away at it from outside and underneath. Thus the Indo-Europeans expressed their own understanding of the law of entropy. They did not see it as one-way, however, but held out a hope for the restoration of order.
Chaos comes to sweep away the calcifications, and then the hero comes to recreate a secure cosmos again. The destruction is not pleasant to those who undergo it, and our sympathies are clearly on the side of the hero. Still, the hero himself has chaos in his soul."

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"Beginnings are always important, as are the ways we approach any new task. Good preparation and a willingness to lay the ground on which we will build are every bit as valuable as the eventual outcome. The Green Man's wisdom here is specific: make a good start and whatever you are undertaking will end well. This means paying attention to the moment of inspiriation (which the Celts called 'awen') and following this to a satisfactory conclusion.
Traditionally birch was used to drive out evil spirits and return to sanity those who had become mad. Its calendrical association is with the beginnings of the year, and with the sacred festival of Samhain, hence its connection with making a fresh start. The birch is also one of the first trees to flower in the spring.
At Samhain,... Birch was burned to drive out “evil spirits” or the spirits of the old year. This practice had continued into more modern times with the practice of “Birching prisoners or the Insane in an effort to expel these more modern versions of the evil spirits."

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Its interesting how I arrive at the same thunder/lightning via the Wild Hunt and the thinning veil, through this one. Like the 'fuhrer':

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Mikalojus Ciurlionis

"In a process not well understood, a channel of ionized air, called a "leader", is initiated from a charged region in the thundercloud. Leaders are electrically conductive channels of partially ionized gas that travel away from a region of dense charge. Negative leaders propagate away from densely charged regions of negative charge, and positive leaders propagate from positively charged regions.

The positively and negatively charged leaders proceed in opposite directions, positive upwards within the cloud and negative towards the earth. Both ionic channels proceed, in their respective directions, in a number of successive spurts. Each leader "pools" ions at the leading tips, shooting out one or more new leaders, momentarily pooling again to concentrate charged ions, then shooting out another leader. Leaders often split, forming branches in a tree-like pattern. In addition, negative leaders travel in a discontinuous fashion. The negative leaders continue to propagate and split as they head downward, often speeding up as they get closer to the Earth's surface."

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Without a high resistance 'neutral' 0 sheath, you wouldn't have a lightning discharge.

With 13 falling beyond, there's also the speculation, thunderstones were fallen meteorite material. The 8-legged horse quickly gallops. Riders of the Storm… riding the power-Animal, using the wand for charging objects is called gandr. Evola speaks of Riding the Tiger through the modern vortex, and Shakespeare the Boar, and also riding the witch's broom made of Birch…

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"The term gand itself means "chant, incantation, enchantment," no doubt the means used to power the reið. The riding of broomsticks, distaffs, or wolves is also included in the art of gand-reið (Cleasby-Vigfusson, s.v. gandr). The concept of "faring forth" in animal form exactly parallels Saami and Siberian shamanistic practices. Gand-reið could also include dream-faring and hag-riding or nightmare attacks… Storms are not the only forces of nature the seið-witch could summon: many sagas recount episodes where landslides are caused, either be a seið-witch walking thrice widdershins around a place and chanting or by laying in a trance (Ellis-Davidson)."

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Speaking of the boar and the underworld, the Birch rune also covers the Nerthus cult:

According to Tacitus,

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"There is nothing especially noteworthy about these states individually, but they are distinguished by a common worship of Nerthus, that is, Mother Earth, and believes that she intervenes in human affairs and rides through their peoples. There is a sacred grove on an island in the Ocean, in which there is a consecrated chariot, draped with cloth, where the priest alone may touch. He perceives the presence of the goddess in the innermost shrine and with great reverence escorts her in her chariot, which is drawn by female cattle. There are days of rejoicing then and the countryside celebrates the festival, wherever she designs to visit and to accept hospitality. No one goes to war, no one takes up arms, all objects of iron are locked away, then and only then do they experience peace and quiet, only then do they prize them, until the goddess has had her fill of human society and the priest brings her back to her temple. Afterwards the chariot, the cloth, and, if one may believe it, the deity herself are washed in a hidden lake. The slaves who perform this office are immediately swallowed up in the same lake. Hence arises dread of the mysterious, and piety, which keeps them ignorant of what only those about to perish may see." [Germania]

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"The rune berkano, “birch,” is the rune of the Great Mother, the goddess worshipped as Nerthus by the early Germanic people, who became Holda on the continent and was split into Hel and Freyja in the Norse countries. This rune embodies the root of much of the Vanic cult: the earth goddess whose powers of fertility must be renewed by the sacrifice of her consort each year. The stave-shape for berkano may be seen as the swollen breasts and belly of a pregnant woman; it may also be seen as the mirroring and fundamentally identical enclosures of womb and tomb.
As a rune of bringing-into-being, Berkano is mighty as a shaping force in itself, the thought being, as written in the Prose Edda, that the layers laid at birth (coming into being) will remain powerful throughout life. This is also written forth in the “Havamal” passage. The sprinkling with the waters of life is an old pagan custom; in this case, the magical action taken is that of enclosing the child at birth in the protection of berkano, which remains around him throughout his life because it has been written as his orlog, his first layer of weird.
Berkano is the rune of the mound itself, as apart from the initiation within the mound. It is the equivalent of the alchemist’s athanor, the oven or “womb” in which transformation takes place.
Berkano is the rune of hidden transformation and growth.
Ritually, Berkano embodies the need for silence and the dark cloth which covers magical implements between use or in the process of creation. It is best for this cloth to be made of linen, as flax is closely associated with Holda, a later German name for Nerthus.
Used with other runes, berkano hides their workings until the unified result is ready to be brought fully into being.
The rune ingwaz is the male counterpart to berkano - as berkano is the great mother who receives, conceals, and brings forth, ingwaz is her sacrificed consort and the seed she keeps within her until it is ready for birth. The rune poem may refer to the spring procession of Nerthus in the wagon. As described by Tacitus, and in the Norse equivalents of this procession, the mortal consort of the deity rode in or ahead of the wagon carrying the god’s statue, and it is plausible that what is described here is Nerthus’ consort mg riding ahead until the goddess’ return to the sacred island, when he might very well be slain. The god mg, of course, would be re-embodied in each year’s male sacrifice, and during the days of the procession the incarnation of the god would be encouraged to impregnate as many women as he could. This may be the source of the beliefs of many of the Germanic royal houses that they were descended from mg or Frey" [Gundarsson, Teutonic Magic]

Hades' hidden cap of invisibility and the plutonic transformation of the initiant, and the death and rebirth of the male consort as the dying and recurring sun.
Berkano is therefore also the play on Sanctuary (refuge) and Sanctification.
Earth-wire protects from short-circits and shocks.

On sanctuary, the word Asylum means both - a place for the insane, and a place from the insane:

early 15c., earlier asile (late 14c.), from Latin asylum "sanctuary," from Greek asylon "refuge," noun use of neuter of asylos "inviolable, safe from violence," especially of persons seeking protection, from a- "without" + syle "right of seizure." So literally "an inviolable place." General sense of "safe or secure place" is from 1640s; meaning "benevolent institution to shelter some class of persons" is from 1776.

"Sanctus Januarius". [N.]
Janus hinge of two faces marking beginning and end in Roman history.
Janus gateway holding together-apart… the ER.
The lightning bridge-branching off and splitting,

Ernest Becker wrote:
"Too much possibility is the attempt by the person to overvalue the powers of the symbolic self. It reflects the attempt to exaggerate one half of the human dualism at the expense of the other. In this sense, what we call schizophrenia is an attempt by the symbolic self to deny the limitations of the finite body; in doing so, the entire person is pulled off balance and destroyed. It is as though the freedom of creativity that stems from within the symbolic self cannot be contained by the body, and the person is torn apart. This is how we understand schizophrenia today, as the split of self and body, a split in which the self is unanchored, unlimited, not bound enough to everyday Things, not contained enough in dependable physical behavior." [The Denial of Death]

But there is also the other kind of Schizophrenic:

Chris Bohjalian wrote:
"A term came to her that they used on occasion at the shelter: the double bind...They used the expression in much the same way that they would use a term like catch-22." [The Double Bind]

A double-bind is a space that leaves one with no place…  "hades".
The nexus is the heart… the "Sanctum".

At the nodal points and crux/cross-roads of the lightning, Hecate stands watching with three faces.
Hekatos "far-shooting"… like web of lightning.

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"Boils down to… Roman Caesar [Jup] + the Christ [Sol]?"

I can live with that.

Except N.'s point was the pity that fills the heart of Christ ought to be like child's play to a Caesar… The Overman - the most empathetic, and yet overcoming the last temptation of pity, of a christ, of sun in pisces…

Sometimes one must have the courage to totally build from scratch and look away from improving upon, making-do and compromising with worth-less models when your ideals have outgrown them, even if that's all you've got.

Invent - assoc. with venue, open space.
Discover - assoc. with en/closure, weir, close space.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:47 pm

How much different would your day be if you did the things you would do if you didn't read any of the stuff in this thread?

Are these theories only for the sake of theorizing, or are these beliefs put into practice.. do you do something differently because you study this stuff?

It's all very interesting in it's own rite (pun there).. don't get me wrong. I just don't see how someone could be interested enough to study at such length this kind of literature and material, if they know none of it is literally true.. or 'real' for those who don't like the word 'true'.

Or maybe people do believe some or all of that stuff is true, which would imply one of two things; either a) causality and not just correlation was proven.. saving it from remaining one big induction fallacy, or b) they were at least one sandwich short of a picnic.

I suppose you two rather enjoy showcasing your knowledge of this material (which is immense), and that this is less about you posting it under the pretense of an agreement between you and the reader that the reader not ever question the literal nature of it all and ruin the spirit of the thread.

But to reiterate my question; how is knowledge of this material applied in material living.

Give me an example of something you do and don't do because you believe this stuff. How are you formed and in-formed by this stuff? (Lyssa likes it when I use dashes in my words.. sorry panther.. I know, it's weird)

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The bastard is funny, no doubt about that.

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I admire the trickster to an extent, this trickster in particular has had some real opportunities to prove his wits.

It is you who is the trickster, Bene Gesserit witch!

How do I know this... how can this be?

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:58 pm

"Astrologer. Receive with reverent awe star-granted hours
By magic’s spells enthralled be Reason’s powers,
And in its stead, arising far and free,
Reign glorious, daring Phantasy!
What you desired so boldly, be it now perceived;
It is impossible, therefore to be believed"… [Goethe, Faust]


I dont know of any area that could be more empirical than astra-Logos.

Your foremost tools are in fact your senses and no books,… look around nature, outer and inner- and feel, listen. Self<>Cosmos.

Sly, no I dont enjoy showing anything.


EDIT: Astrology is not a Placebo.
I do not care for Plotinian/Jungian/Kabbalist corruptions; I keep the sun in sunday and moon in monday.

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"Had Pythagoras and his teachings not been since the early Academy overwritten with Plato's philosophy, and had this 'palimpsest' not in the course of the Roman Empire achieved unchallenged authority among Platonists, it would be scarcely conceivable that scholars from the Middle Ages and modernity down to the present would have found the Presocratic charismatic from Samos so fascinating. In fact, as a rule it was the image of Pythagoras elaborated by Neopythagoreans and Neoplatonists that determined the idea of what was Pythagorean over the centuries." [Christoph Riedweg, Pythagoras, His Life, Teaching and Influence]


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:01 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:11 pm

Excellent. The gap between Tiwaz and Berkana is indeed maximal and the Birch rune itself is an apotheosis of the system.

For 10 years I had concentrated only on Algiz, which my teacher interpreted as Mannaz, to form a sense of what runes are. Both the common Mannaz and the Algiz rune satisfy the general concept of up-holding, Man as dharma. But the more complex glyph, which seems to be a deepening or collapsing into lock of the previous, Ehwaz, represents a complex construct, things hooking into each other, whereas the Algiz rune represents only the magician when he still was two arms to to the heavens. Nauthiz is the magician with his lowered left arm.

As for the Caesar and the Christ. It is easy to underestimate the necessity of the Christ for the existence of Nietzsche. Nietzsche did very well in making this so hard to see, because we had to be free of all the Christians, except that first one which Nietzsche thought of as the only one. "We are sons of God, what is the law to us?", Christ as iconoclast, before he became icon. Nietzsche learned from what was made of his teaching (praxis, spirit) by the hands of lesser men, and made sure never to make it so easy for his students to become satisfied.

Back to the seasonal compass; The squares are not to be disregarded either. Perhaps the most excessive points. We then have four cardinal junctures in a 13 month cycle, which becomes, with 12 cycles, 13 years. 4x13=52, "Jupiter weeks", which last more or less 13 weeks.

I am happy to attribute this to Berkana rather than to Eihwaz.
But since there are now four cardinal points, there must be 4 runes.
Jera and Eihwaz or Berkana and Tyr to occupy the squares? I think it is the point of maximal excess, and the greatest conflict of conscience. Fitting to be placed under the eye of the mightiest of justifying-gods - but no, the conjunction is the origin, the opposition the depth. Tiwaz and Berkana, it seems to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:56 am

Zoot - first off, why do you want to know?
This is the stuff of true power, it is how we are ruled, one way or another.  I assume you are not entirely ignorant of the structure of the human mind.
Comprehending the ways of power is thrilling in its own right.

Why did Hitler define his divisions by means of runes? Why is the US military controlled from a pentagon? What changes?

Good question. If you are seriously asking, we could get dirty with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:08 pm

What do you mean why do I want to know? I don't want to know.. I want to know how and why you think you know any of this has substance.

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This is the stuff of true power, it is how we are ruled, one way or another.

Now you're talking. What kind of power? Hydraulic, electrical, executive, legislative, military, flower, what?

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Why did Hitler define his divisions by means of runes? Why is the US military controlled from a pentagon?


Because throughout history man has always been fascinated with metaphysics, mythos, spiritualism, symbolism, numerology, the occult, etc. He makes his activities and creations meaningful by understanding them through and within the narrative he has selected (there are countless systems in each of the fields as you know) to believe in. But that doesn't mean everything happens like it happens because of the reasons he thinks they happen, see.

There was a study done by astrologers I think... something about a large percent of interviewed athletes who had Mars in Sagittarius when they were born. Does that mean the narrative about the planet Mars ruling over those attributes that make one athletic, is therefore true?

Does the fact that a geometric shape has as many sides as, say, the number of erogenous zones in the body or the amount of times an empire went to war, have any significance, any correlation or causal connection? If so, how?

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I assume you are not entirely ignorant of the structure of the human mind.

Well, let's just say we can talk meaningfully about [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] without ever having any certainty about what exactly it is, so trying to understand how it works is less important than understanding what is meant when the word is used. When it is used philosophically rather than in ordinary speech (he's out of his mind! mind your business!) or medical vernacular (the patient isn't mindful, his mind is going), it gets overly complicated.

I've taken the early metaphysics retirement package anyway because I am no Immanuel Kant, so I rarely do metaphysics anymore, but I appreciate the offer to "get dirty with it".






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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:37 pm

I was aware of your ridiculous beliefs, but it was impolite not to ask.
Now, begone.


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:07 am

A hierarchy always exists based on the division between the those who refuse evidence, and architects of/in time.

The modern world is so petty, its religion so pervasive, the laziness of its apes so proud, that its hard to want anything for it than enslavement. I suppose this was always the conflict in the mind of the bridgebuilder.

Fuck it, my task is to make the bridge, not to force the sheep across it.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:29 pm

I'm under the impression that when I die, that's it. I'm okay with that although it is rather presumptuous. On the other hand, I also consider some kind of continuation after death to be possible, either as an eventual physical (atomistic.. center of force, etc.) recurrence of very similar events, or a continuation of consciousness somehow after death.

Supposing the first were true, it wouldn't mean anything more than the same thing over and over and over again. The whole process being meaningless repetition. If the latter were true, the next question is, how would what happens next be related to this life right now; does what we do now affect in any way what will happen next. Is there a direction this thing is going in or is it a non-linear process. Are there 'better' or 'worse' stages in this development.

I don't think there is for the overall process.. I think the same terms apply as do for the eternal recurrence.. only different in this respect; the feeling of novelty and progress in each life is actually deceptive. There is no overall progress (contra Hegel's developing absolute spirit) I don't think because I can't imagine any terminus in space and time. I can't imagine a 'stop' and an 'end', if you will.

What I don't believe is at all possible are the heaven and hell concepts as a terminus. Either they wouldn't exist at all, or they would not be final stages.. just one more kind of life that is lived in the endless overall process.

Now suppose there was a way to do each stage 'right'.. what would that mean.. to do it right? What would happen if you did it wrong? Let's say you'd have to do it again, maybe. Okay...so? There you are, doing it again.. not qualitatively different than an eternal recurrence of the same.

You see where I'm going. The feeling of novelty will always be there.. the feeling of there being a direction.. a right way to live which will get you a good deal in the next, and so on. But if at each stage these feelings are structurally the same, each stage is basically the same... the same form of experience is happening. The content might be different, but not the way in which it is perceived and made meaningful in each life.

What if you discovered we had had this conversation an infinite number of times already?

And each time you believed you were building a bridge to advance in your stages, while in fact you were doing the same thing every time and will continue to do the same thing, forever, while I type out these same posts trying to explain how it is possible that each time you believed you were building a bridge to advance in your stages, you were in fact doing the same thing every time and will continue to do the same thing, forever, while I type out these same posts trying to explain how it is possible that each time you believed you were building a bridge to advance in your stages, you were in fact doing the same thing every time and will continue to do the same thing, forever, while I type out these same posts trying to explain how it is possible that...

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Now, begone.

Sorry to have been so much of a bore, but in my own [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I find I learn much more.




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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:39 am

Ill grant you all that sounds desperately pointless. I have no idea what I can help you with or why you post these .... ruminations...(fears? beliefs?) in this thread.

If you want something from me you can just ask. Cant promise to make your life less repetitive though.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:12 am

Some basics on the origin of correlation between astrology and practical life events.


The bases in relating the microcosm to the macrocosm.

Man is both the sacrifice and the sacrificer. As the latter, he is in his creative aspect and tries to regenerate the world that is falling apart [sacrificing itself].

The terrestrial fire [Agni/ignus/ignition] is his immortal seed that he pours forth into a sanctified portion of the earth he calls the altar and equivalent to the female womb, to kindle the world.
The ancient texts anthropomorphize this energy as a golden foetus that grows step by step. Each step is called a support and establishes a foundation for the next one.

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"He hangs a gold plate (round his neck), and wears it; for that gold plate is the truth, and the truth is able to sustain that (fire ): by means of the truth the gods carried it, and by means of the truth does he now carry it.

Now that truth is the same as yonder sun. It is a gold (plate), for gold is light, and he (the sun) is the light; gold is immortality, and he is immortality. (immortal portion)
And as to why he puts on and wears the gold plate;--that plate is yonder sun, and man, in his human form, is unable to sustain that fire: it is only in this (solar or divine) form that he bears that (divine) form.

And, again, why he puts on and wears the gold plate;--this fire is seed poured out here; and the gold plate means vital energy (or brilliance) and vigour: he thus lays vital energy and vigour into that seed.

Now he carries him (Agni, the fire) by means of a netting*--he, Agni, is these worlds, and the netting is the regions, for by means of the regions these worlds are able to stand.

And, again, why he carries him by means of a netting,--he, Agni, is the year, and the netting is the seasons; for by means of the seasons the year is able to exist.

* Apparently a round netted mat, on which the fire-pan is to be placed, and which is fastened to a cord by means of six strings, thus somewhat resembling the scale of a balance." [Satapatha Brahmana, 6.7.1.18]

As in the passage above, the energy of the fire grows/spreads into directions. The directions multiply into day and night, and day and night into seasons and stars. The stars/constellations multiply into the year, and the year into the great golden self, called the Dweller or Purusha.
Just as man dwells in his house, the great Self dwells in the world.

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The progression is from the ancestors [Pitr] from whom one is born to the most liveliest self [Rudra or Isana]…
And so as per the basics of vastu or the science of architecture, the slope of the house is built with an increasing inclination from SW to NE.

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And corresponds to the increasing ascent of his kundalini or vitality:

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"Vaastu insists that the building, when constructed has an identity of its own. This is because, Vaastu designs the building to be a living organism with the capacity to pulsate from within like a human being and resonate with the pulsations of the occupants. The output of Vaastu is thus, the effect and influence of the built space on the emotional, physical and material aspects of a particular individual/ the sacrificer who is identified with that building."

Because man sees himself as a creator, the progression outwards moves from the most creative principle [brahma/centre space/navel that connects like an umblical cord to the universe/womb chamber/hearth] to the most daimonic [the directions that collapse space];
That is from Creative spark - Divine realm - Human realm - Daimonic realm

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The centre space or hall of a home should therefore never be cluttered. It should be given ample space.

Because the sun rises in the east, there is a 'natural logic' to the correspondence.

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The sun is the great victor and so the east is under the rule of Indra the hero. The West when the sun sets, is therefore where all that is not visible - magic arises, and criminals/sorcerers are active. So it fell under the rule of Varuna, the Over-seer, and who holds the 'fire in the waters'. Space was thought of as a large ocean in which the sun set.
From the East to the South, the celestial fire reaches its peak ignition - and so kitchens are located in the SE.
The South is the bottom 'mortal' part of the body and therefore under Yama - who reigns over discipline, death, justice. The North is the upper 'immortal' part of the body - the mind, and therefore under Kuber/Moon - who reigns over treasury and all that is valuable. What was valuable to the ancients was medicinal herbs and life-saving plants that grew under the moon… and mother's lore - that safe-guarded these 'treasures'. Moon - mind - medicine - myth…

Roughly;

Quote :
"East- Indra- Ruled by the solar deity- Aditya (Seeing the world, prosperity)

Southeast- Agni- Ruled by the fire deity - Agni (Energy Generating).

South- Yama- Ruled by lord of death - Yama (Vigilance).

Southwest- Pitru/Nairutya, Nirrti- Ruled by ancestors (History, Ancestor's blessings).

West- Varuna- Ruled by lord of water (Physical).

Northwest- Vayu- ruled by the god of winds (Guests, Travelling).

North- Kubera/Moon- Ruled by lord of wealth (Finance).

Northeast - Isana - Ruled by lord of dance shiva (Divinity, contemplation)

Center- Brahma- Ruled by the creator of the universe (Desire, Balancing)."

Quote :
"North-East: The period between 3 am and 6 am, just before sunrise, the Sun is in the North-Eastern part of the house. These hours are ideal for Yoga, meditation, or study as it is very quiet and peaceful.Therefore, the North-East corner is the best position for altar/ meditation room.

East: From 6 am to 9 am, the Sun is in the eastern part of the house. This is the time for bathing and preparing for the day, so East is a good location for a bathroom used for bathing purposes only.

South-East: The time between 9 am to 12 in the noon, when the Sun is in the South-East part of the house, is the best time for preparing food to be eaten later in the day. Therefore, the kitchen can be located here.

South: After lunch it is time for rest, so the time between noon and 3 pm is called Vishranti, the resting period. The Sun is now in the South, and hence the best position for a bedroom.

South-West: After rest, from 3 pm to 6pm is the time for studying and work, and the Sun is now in the South-West section of the house, the ideal location for a study or library.

West: The period between 6 pm and 9 pm is the time for eating, sitting or reading. The Sun is in the
West and this is the best location for dining room or sitting room.

North-West: The time between 9 pm and midnight, when the Sun is in the North-West part of the house is the time to sleep. This part is a good location for another bedroom also.

North: The time between midnight and 3 am, when the Sun is in the Northern section, is the time of darkness and secrecy. The North is the best place to hide valuables and to keep them protected."

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The Year was the great Wheel.
Chants were syllables homologous to the parts of the wheel, whose rhythmic metres made the day and night revolve. A disruption in the ritual or 'gaps' in the performance was equivalent to falling off into the 'pit' or jaws of death.
The weaving of metres was like a fabric. The fabrication gave birth to a cosmos from the chaotic universe.
Prometheus' stealing of fire at the sacrificial banquet, 'instantiated' [introduced a 'lag'] a rupture into the smooth moving wheel [golden age].

So likewise in the other way, when there is entropy or the world/great Self which is the Year sacrifices,,, it breaks down into stars and stars into seasons and seasons into day and night, and day and night into directions and directions back into man's creative spark… his mind, his heart, his energy…
Because the stars are always in movement, yet the directions and layout are fixed, the Dweller also rotates and hence even the best and perfect vastu or science cannot avoid or stall misfortunes forever.

Step by step, it de-grades from centre inwards…

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And so the directions and time of day and night and the seasons and the stars all influence man at his various body parts. Roughly,

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Factoring in minute star transits degree by degree in each house, would give a chart like this:

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Rudolf Steiner [who I only agree with in the basic parts] explained how we take our food from the mineral kingdom, plants and animals who are environmentally influenced by fluctuations of seasons and stars… these are all subtle effects that interact with us. The linkage between mars and blood/reproductive related diseases like anaemia or hyper blood pressure or cancer in the ovaries or uterus, etc. are not unrelated. Likewise, a Uranus shift and the 60s revolution is not un-correlated. To see it - patterns like that, you also the need other planets in your favour that make that visibility possible.

Homology between the grounding grid and different parts of the Dweller:

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Alex Grey, Theologue

From this one also sees, what Nietzsche meant when he said its Nature that separates the four castes. The ancient tri-partite political arrangement around natural temperaments was the most golden logic and the most effective system.

In Rome, Vitruvius started with human anatomy. 4 fingers make 1 palm, and 4 palms make 1 foot, 6 palms make 1 cubit; 4 cubits make a man's height. And 4 cubits make one pace and 24 palms make a man; and used as a basis for his buildings.
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The entrances to the model of his ideal city corresponds to one of the fourwinds

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But more ancient than him, there were Roman rites exactly in parallel to the Vedic rites to the logic of architecture. It is detailed in the link I posted previously: Indo-Roman Sacred Space.
A synopsis of it can be found [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The book shows how:

Quote :
"In Vedic India the restricted sacred ground of the three fires, the space of the Devayajana, has adjacent to it a much larger sacred space, the Mahá vedi. In Rome, a homologous spatial and cultic juxtaposition exists. The smaller sacred space of the Roman city, defined by the boundary of the pomerium, is contiguous with a great sacred ground, the Ager Romanus. In India, the sacred spaces, large and small, are temporary structures — in effect, encampments established, then broken up to be established again… Contiguous temporary spaces have given way in the landed society of the Romans to a sacred geometry of a permanent nature."

In other words, originally, there was a systolic/dyastolic alternation of a periodic sacrificial pattern throughout Indo-Rome. Gradually, this became in Rome a permanent expansion outward under the name of the (Capitoline) 'triumph', and in India, a permanent contraction inward under the name of the 'nirvana'. Victory and liberation respectively became a static instead of dynamic affair, abstract concepts. For more on that, read also Indra Kagis' book on Vitruvius.

From a vertical point of view, the ancient topology of Spark - Divine - Human - Daimon evolved into the Pythagorean pyramidal triangle 1 - 2 - 3 - 4  called the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Till here, when Plato or Plotinus attributed the characters:

1 - Spark - One - Monad

2 - Divine - Mind - Dyad

3 - Human - Soul - Harmony

4 - Daimon - Senses/Elemental/Physical world - Kosmos

…it had a natural sense to it.

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Then, the gnostic, J.-Xt., Neo-Plotinian and other corruption judged the phenomenal world as gross/base and the noumenal world the highest.. when originally, it was a alternating/revolving reciprocity, keeping that thread looming.

The Pythagorean Tetractys like the Vedic Vastu based on the golden fire as mentioned at the very start was a sacred 'Truth'/'Satya' that the initiates could swear by.

The Pythagorean oath on the 'Dweller',

"By that pure, holy, four lettered name on high,
nature's eternal fountain and supply,
the parent of all souls that living be,
by him, with faith find oath, I swear to thee."

Because all of existence was based on this 1, 2, 3, 4, the "I Am" was later interpreted into the Kabbalistic YHVH meaning "I am that I am", etc.

_________________
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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:16 am

Black Panther wrote:
Excellent. The gap between Tiwaz and Berkana is indeed maximal and the Birch rune itself is an apotheosis of the system.

Back to the seasonal compass; The squares are not to be disregarded either. Perhaps the most excessive points. We then have four cardinal junctures in a 13 month cycle, which becomes, with 12 cycles, 13 years. 4x13=52, "Jupiter weeks", which last more or less 13 weeks.

I am happy to attribute this to Berkana rather than to Eihwaz.
But since there are now four cardinal points, there must be 4 runes.
Jera and Eihwaz or Berkana and Tyr to occupy the squares? I think it is the point of maximal excess, and the greatest conflict of conscience. Fitting to be placed under the eye of the mightiest of justifying-gods - but no, the conjunction is the origin, the opposition the depth. Tiwaz and Berkana, it seems to me.



In the twilight of the gods between 12 [hanged man - Tyr's 'pledge'] and 13 [death - lightning edge], the relation between (s)word and sanctuary is joined by the word 'Sanction':

Dictionary wrote:
"1. Authoritative permission or approval that makes a course of action valid. a. 2. The penalty for noncompliance with a law or legal order.

Occasionally, a word can have contradictory meanings. Such a case is represented by sanction, which can mean both "to allow, encourage" and "to punish so as to deter." Sanction comes from the Latin word sānctiō, meaning "a law or decree that is sacred or inviolable." This noun is related to the Latin verb sancīre, which basically meant "to render sacred or inviolable by a religious act," but was also used in such extended meanings as "to ordain," "to decree," and "to forbid under pain of punishment." Thus from the beginning, two fundamental notions of law were wrapped up in the word: law as something that permits or approves and law that forbids by punishing. In English, the word sanction is first recorded in the mid-1500s in the meaning "law, decree." Not long after, in the 1600s, it also came to be used to refer to the penalty enacted to cause one to obey a law or decree. From the noun, a verb sanction was created in the 18th century meaning "to allow by law," but it wasn't until the second half of the 1900s that it began to mean "to punish (for breaking a law)." English has a few other words that can refer to opposites, such as the verbs dust (meaning both "to remove dust from" and "to put dust on") and trim (meaning both "to cut something away" and "to add something as an ornament")."

The Birch is also the tree used to carve the very runes on. So a kind of matrix - grammar - sanction.

In ancient Roman religion;

Quote :
"sancio

A verb meaning to ratify a compact and put it under the protection of a sanctio, penalty, sanction. The formation and original meaning of the verb are debated. Some scholars think it is derived by the IE stem root *sak (the same of sacer) through a more recent way of word formation, i.e. by the insertion of a nasal n infix and the suffix -yo, such as Lithuanian iung-iu from IE stem *yug. Thence sancio would mean to render something sacer, i.e. belonging to the gods in the sense of having their guarantee and protection. Some think it is a derivation from the theonym Sancus, the god of the ratification of foedera and protection of good faith, from the root sancu- plus suffix -io as inquio>incio. In such case the verb would mean an act that reflects or conforms to the function of this god, i.e. the ratifying and guaranteeing compacts.

sanctus

Sanctus, an adjective formed on the past participle of verb sancio, describes that which is "established as inviolable" or "sacred", most times in a sense different from that of sacer and religiosus. In fact its original meaning would be that which is protected by a sanction (sanctio). It is connected to the name of the Umbrian or Sabine founder-deity Sancus (in Umbrian Sancius) whose most noted function was the ratifying and protecting of compacts (foedera).

The Roman jurist Ulpian distinguishes sanctus as "neither sacred (sacer) nor profane (profanum) ... nor religiosus." Gaius writes that a building dedicated to a god is sacrum, a town's wall and gate are res sanctae because they belong "in some way" to divine law, and a graveyard is religiosus because it is relinquished to the di Manes. Thus some scholars think that it should originally be a concept related to space i.e. concerning inaugurated places, because they enjoyed the armed protection (sanctio) of the gods. Various deities, objects, places and people – especially senators and magistrates – can be sanctus. Claudia Quinta is described as a sanctissima femina (most virtuous woman) and Cato the Younger as a sanctus civis (a morally upright citizen).

Later the epithet sanctus is given to many gods including Apollo Pythius by Naevius, Venus and Tiberinus by Ennius and Livy: Ennius renders the Homeric dia theaoon as sancta dearum; in the early Imperial era, Ovid describes Terminus, the god who sanctifies land boundaries, as sanctus and equates sancta with augusta (august). The original spacial connotation of the word is still reflected in its use as an epithet of the river Tiber and of god Terminus that was certainly ancient: borders are sancti by definition and rivers used to mark borders. Sanctus as referred to people thus over time came to share some of the sense of Latin castus (morally pure or guiltless), pius (pious), and none of the ambiguous usages attached to sacer and religiosus."

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The area around the law-full Altar in a temple was usually regarded as a sanctuary. It was forged by Cyclopes… born of 'hundred arms of storm', and lightning and thunder. Keep in mind the relation with Ansuz too when the etymology goes to Asa, and the related word Area on the one hand could be tied to harvest of grains [jera] and also storage of grains [original use of the temple] from which metrics, account-keeping, promises, oaths began [tyr]. GvL. also gives Tyr the meaning 'to conceal' - and so, 'arcane', and 'arca' - strong box (pandora's box and the hesiodic turning of times).

The reading experience is better directly from the site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(I post it here in case the linked info. goes dead later on.)

Quote :
Ara

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"Ara represents the heavenly Altar created by the gods of Mount Olympus to celebrate the defeat of the titans where the gods swore their allegiance to the supreme god Zeus (Jupiter). The smoke from the altar was said to pour out to create the Milky Way. According to another account Ara was the altar on which the Centaur (Centaurus) offered his sacrifice of Lupus. Centaurus is traditionally depicted as carrying Lupus, the Wolf, to sacrifice on Ara, the altar. Ara was also known as the altar that Noah built after the great flood when his ark rested on Mt. Ararat.

"The beginning of the stormy season of late autumn, early winter was marked in Greece by the rise of the constellation Ara (the Altar). This altar was said to have been forged by the Kyklopes [Cyclops, maybe adjacent Telescopium] when the gods forged an alliance with Zeus against the Titanes. The eastern rising of the constellation probably represented the release of the storms from the Tartarean pit whose gates were guarded by the Hekatonkheires (the hundred-handed Storm-Gods) and Kyklopes (Gods of Lightning and Thunder)". [Theoi]

There is also an ancient sanctuary [at Korinthos] called the altar of the Kyklopes, and they sacrifice to the Kyklopes upon it." [Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 2. 1 Greek travelogue circa 2nd A.D.) from Theoi]

The word Ara comes from the Indo-European root *as- 'To burn, glow'. Derivatives: ash¹ (from Old English æsce, asce), Ara (probably denoting originally 'a parched place', from Latin ara), arid (from Latin aridus, dry, parched, from arere, to be dry), ardent, ardor (from Latin ardeo, ardere, be on fire, burn), arson (from Latin arsus from ardere, to burn, be on fire, from aridus, parched), zamia (tropical American cycads of the genus Zamia from Greek azein, to dry), azalea (from Greek azaleos, dry). [Pokorny as- 68. Watkins] The word area is cognate with arid.

"...the cut grain-sheaves arescunt, ‘dry out’ for threshing, is an area, ‘threshing-floor.' On account of the likeness to these, clean places in the city are called areae; from which may be also the Gods' ara ‘altar,' because it is clean—unless rather from ardor ‘fire’; for the intention of using it for an ardor makes it an ara; and from this the area itself is not far away, because it is the ardor of the sun which arefacit 'does the drying.'" [Varro: On The Latin Language, 1st century AD, p.37]

The English word altar is not related to Latin ara (and not related to the word 'alter,' meaning to change something). Latin altar, which was borrowed directly into Old English altar, was a derivative of the plural noun altaria, 'burnt offerings,' which probably came from the verb adolere, 'burn up.'

Noah built an altar to God and made an offering:

"And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odour..." [Gen 8]

"The ‘aroma’ is a picture of something pleasing to the Lord which runs throughout the Bible. In Gen 8:21, the Lord smelled the pleasing odour of the sacrifice and spoke a blessing upon the earth and mankind. Even in the sacrificial system, the rising smoke is spoken of as being ‘a pleasing odour to the Lord’ (Lev 1:9) that the offerer might find acceptance before Him" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

When the waters of the flood receded, and the Ark (Latin arca) came to rest on the mountains of Ararat in Armenia. There Noah built an altar to God, the first altar mentioned in the Bible, and made an offering. The ark is also identified with the Ship Argo Navis. It has been said that Noah might have used timber from the ark to build the altar which might account for the similarity of words; (where else would he have found the wood on that treeless snowy peak?) Isidore believed arca (ark) and ara (altar) are related:

"The Greeks called the front of the torso from the neck to the stomach the thorax; this is what we call the chest (arca), because in that place is a hidden (arcanus), that is, a secret thing, from which other people are shut out (arcere). From this also a strong box (arca) and an altar (ara) derive their names, as if the words meant 'secret things'” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.236.]

The word ark (might belong to Argo Navis) comes from the Indo-European root *ark- 'To hold, contain, guard'. Derivatives: arcane (mysteriously obscure, arcane language), ark, coerce (from Latin coercere, 'to constrain.' From Latin co-, 'together,' + arcere, 'to shut up, ward off, to box in, to enclose'), coercivity, exercise (ex- + arcere, the exercise of a duty. Exercise burns up calories), autarky (self-sufficiency, from Greek arkein, to ward off suffice), arcanum (a secret known only to the members of a small select group). [Pokorny areq- 65. Watkins] The Ark of the Covenant or Ark of the Testimony is the chest containing the Ten Commandments. Major Arcana are the trumph cards.

Titles for Ara were Focus, Lar, and Ignitabulum, all meaning a Hearth; and Greek Estia (Hestia), or Roman Vesta, the goddess of the hearth. Manilius says Vesta is associated with Capricorn). [The smoke from the hearth of Roman homes flowed into what was called an atrium - see adjacent Triangulum Australe]

"As the hearth of a house is at the same time the altar on which sacrifices are offered to the domestic gods (hestiouchoi or ephestioi), Hestia was looked upon as presiding at all sacrifices, and, as the goddess of the sacred fire of the altar, she had a share in the sacrifices in all the temples of the gods. (Hom. Hymn. in Ven. 31.) ...

As the goddess of the family hearth she also presided over the cooking of bread and the preparation of the family meal. Hestia was also the goddess of the sacrificial flame and received a share of every sacrifice to the gods. ... Hestia was the goddess of hearth, home and feast. By extension she also presided over the public hearths, namely the altars of the gods, and the state hearth. [Theoi]

"The goddess whom they call Hestia. Her power extends over altars and hearths, and therefore all prayers and all sacrifices end with this goddess, because she is the guardian of the innermost things." - [Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2.27 - Theoi]

"The word Vesta is of uncertain origin; possibly cognate with Greek estia or hestia, 'the hearth of the house' (whence estian, 'to receive at one's hearth')" [Klein], from Indo-European root *wes-3 'To live, dwell, pass the night, with derivatives meaning 'to be''. Derivatives: was, were, wassail (to drink to the health of; toast), astute (from Latin astutus, skill, craft - practiced in a town, - from Greek astu, town < 'place where one dwells'), divan (from Old Persian vahanam, house). [Pokorny 1. wes- 1170. Watkins]

In Cratylus by Plato, Socrates asks Hermogenes "What did he mean who gave the name Hestia?" and Socrates answers:

For example, that which we term ousia is by some called esia, and by others again osia. Now that the essence of things should be called estia, which is akin to the first of these (esia = estia, and Hestia), is rational enough. And there is reason in the Athenians calling that estia which participates in ousia. For in ancient times we too seem to have said esia for ousia, and this you may note to have been the idea of those who appointed that sacrifices should be first offered to estia (the name of Hestia), which was natural enough if they meant that estia was the essence of things. Those again who read osia seem to have inclined to the opinion of Heracleitus, that all things flow and nothing stands; with them the pushing principle (othoun) is the cause and ruling power of all things, and is therefore rightly called osia. [Cratylus, by Plato, Part 08]

Greek ousia 'being, essence' is the Ancient Greek noun formed on the feminine present participle for the Greek verb 'to be', einai, from the Indo-European root *es- 'To be'. Derivatives: prude (a characteristic of Vesta and the Vestal Virgins), prosit (a drinking toast, to wish good health or good fortune), am¹, is, yes, sooth, soothe, sin¹ (a transgression of a religious or moral law), suttee (the old practice of a Hindu widow's cremating herself on her husband's funeral pyre), entity, essence, essential, abessive, absent, adessive, essive, improve (Middle English improwen, to enclose land for cultivation, from Anglo-Norman emprouwer, to turn to profit: Old French en-, + Old French prou, profit, from Late Latin prode, advantageous), inessive, interest, present¹ (present time, pre- + esse, to be), present² (gift, pre- + esse), proud (pro- + esse, to be; pride), quintessence, represent, representation, stover (the dried stalks and leaves of a cereal crop, from Latin esse, to be). Basic form *es-: -ont, onto- (the present participle stem of einai ‘to be’.'In the beginning' meant also 'in the ontological principle' [1], ontogeny), -biont (bi(o)- + -ont, living organism; as in symbiont), Parousia (the Second Coming, Para-ousia, feminine present participle of pareinai, from para-, beside + einai, to be). Suffixed from es-ti-; swastika (from Sanskrit svasti, well-being; su- good; and -asti, 'is') [Pokorny es- 340. Watkins]

Transgendered (eunuch) priests were called essenes, 'king bees', or drones. Essential oils contain volatile aroma, or odor.

The word sin (from *es-) might relate to Sinai? The Ark of the Covenant or Ark of the Testimony is the chest containing the Ten Commandments; the ten injunctions given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, against sinning.

"In his account of the Fasti of the Roman year, Ovid twice recounted an anecdote of Priapus' foiled attempt on a sleeping nymph: once he told it of the nymph Lotis and then again, calling it a 'very playful little tale', he retold it of Vesta, the Roman equivalent of Hestia. In the anecdote, after a great feast, when the immortals were all either passed out drunk or asleep, Priapus — who had grotesquely large genitalia — spied Lotis/Vesta and was filled with lust for her. He quietly approached the nymph, but the braying of an ass awoke her just in time. She screamed at the sight [as a prude would] and Priapus immediately ran away" [2]. The story is told here - Ovid, Fasti 6.319. Lotis was a nymph of Greek mythology, the daughter of Poseidon or Nereus. Priapus tried to rape her and she was changed into a lotus tree to escape him [3].

“Vesta, because she is clothed (vestire) with plants and various things, or from 'enduring by her own power' (vi sua stare). ... They call this same one both Vesta and fire, because there is no doubt that the earth possesses fire, as can be seen from Etna and Vulcanus. And they thought she was a virgin because fire is an inviolable element, and nothing can be born from it; indeed it consumes all that it seizes...Ovid in the Fasti (6.291): Understand Vesta as no other than living flame - you see no bodies born from flame. Furthermore, virgins are said to wait on her, because just as nothing is born from a virgin, so nothing is born from fire.” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.187.]

Isidore says “Vesta, because she is clothed (vestire)...". Greek Hestia or Roman Vesta, presided at all sacrifices, she had a vested interest; her Vestial Virgins received a share of every sacrifice to the gods. Latin vestire is from the Indo-European root *wes-4 'To clothe' Extension of *eu-. Derivatives: wear, vest, devest, invest, revet, travesty, (these words from Latin vestis, garment). Suffixed form *wes-nu-; himation (woolen or linen cloak worn in ancient Greece, from Greek hennunai, to clothe). [Pokorny 5. wes- 1172. Watkins].

If the above associations are correct Ara would relate to these three words: Astute investments yield interest.

Indo-European root *wes-4 'To clothe' is an extension of *eu- 'To dress'. Latin exuere (exuuiae) is a cognate of vesta (uestis) and indutus is armor stripped from an enemy, but can also refer to a garment or animal skin. Derivatives: endue, indument (from induere, to put a garment on. Also a covering of fine hairs or scales), exuviae (the cast-off skins or coverings of various organisms, such as the shells of crabs or the external coverings of the larvae and nymphs of insects), reduviid (‘things cast off’, formed from exuere ‘to divest oneself of’. The assassin bug is called reduviid, of the family Reduviidae), indusium (the amnion of the fetus, from Latin indusium, a tunic, from induere to put on). [Pokorny 2. eu- 346. Watkins]

"Philolaus (fl. 470 BC) a pupil of Pythagoras, taught the earth floated in space and revolved in a circle once each day around a central fire, called 'the hearth of Zeus,' or the hearth of the universe" [4].

"[Constellation] Altar. On this altar the gods are thought to have first made offerings and formed an alliance when they were about to oppose the Titanes. The Cyclopes [see adjacent Telescopium] made it. From this observance men established the custom that when they plan to do something, they make sacrifices before beginning the undertaking. [Pseudo-Hyginus, Astronomica 2. 39 (trans. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D, from Theoi]

The Altar was a place where oaths were sworn: The Greek word for oath was horkos from where we get the word exorcise 'to drive out evil spirits', from Greek exorkizein, from ex- out + horkos.

On the constellation Ara, the altar, which formerly was called a well, according to Eratosthenes, Zeus swore his oath [horkos], before he attacked his father Kronos and threw him off his throne and out of the heavens, thus usurping the rule of Olympia in the first mythical dawn of gods and turn of an era of the ancient Greeks. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ovid expands on a theme ... that corpses littered the Athenian temples, and produces a clever and unobtrusive bilingual etymological wordplay, exoratis [exorcise] picks up the sense of imploration inherent in ara through its Greek origin. [Andreas Michalopoulos, Ancient Etymologies in Ovid's Metamorphoses]

Klein says that these words (from *ark- above) "stand in gradational relationship to Orcus, name of the god of the infernal regions in Roman mythology". Michael Paschalis in Virgil's Aeneid sees Virgil as also making this connection:

'Orcus', who exercises his power of keeping her [Dido] outside the boundary of the Underworld, because she is still living. Virgil's treatment of 'Orcus' also suggests an etymological association with arceo ('keep off'). ... and 'Orcus' have to do with bonds, boundaries, and barriers: oath (Greek orkos, horkos) 'binds'; Orcus punishes those who transgress the boundaries; 'Orcus' keeps off the living, and receives and keeps the dead within his 'enclosure'. [Virgil's Aeneid, Semantic Relations and Proper Names, p.179]

Isidore gives another likely derivation:

"Some call him Orcus, receiver of the dead, as it were - whence the vessel that receives water is called orca. He is also Charon in Greek.” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, p.186.]

In Roman mythology, Orcus was a god of the underworld, punisher of broken oaths [5]. Greek orkos, horkos, meaning oath or 'to swear', is similar to the name and function of Orcus. Our word exorcise, comes from Greek orkos, horkos, meaning to drive out evil spirits, literally ‘to swear out'. From Greek exorkezein, 'to bind by an oath; to banish an evil spirit', from Greek orkizein 'to make to swear', from orkos, 'an oath', literally 'a limitation, binding, obligation', in gradational relationship to erkhos, (for Greek serkos, 'enclosure, hedge, fence', and probably cognate with Latin sarcire, 'to patch, mend'. See sartorial [Klein]. Sartorial is from the Indo-European root *serk- 'To make whole'. Derivative: sartorius (from Latin sarcire, to mend, repair. [Pokorny serk- 912. Watkins] The sartorius is a flat narrow thigh muscle, the longest of the human anatomy, crossing the front of the thigh from the hip to the inner side of the tibia. Latin for tailor; hence, sartorius which produce the posture in which tailors once worked, squatting on the floor. The legal verb *sark- (infixed sar-ni-k-) 'make restitution', which matches Latin sarcire 'repair'.

A tailor, which the Latins called sarcitector, makes clothes (Latin vestire) to wear. A sarcitector also has another meaning:

“A sarcitector is so called because out of many planks joined together on this side and that he repairs (sarcire) one structure of a building” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.382.]

The ancients saw a link between the word Aries, and the word ara, meaning altar, Isidore says:

“The ram (aries) is either named after the word Ares, that is, after 'Mars' - whence we call the males in a flock 'males' (mas, genitive maris) - or because this animal was the first to be sacrificed on altars (ara, genitive aris) by pagans. So, the 'ram' because it was placed on the altar; whence also this (Sedulius, Paschal Poem 1.115):  The ram is offered at the altar.” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.247.]"


Manillus saying Hestia is related to Capricorn: Sanctus Januarius

And Hestia connected to Wassail: Pluto's weal, Mars/Ares' ruled, but not Aries, since thunderstorms happen in the dark half.

Maybe its also why the Olympian pantheon pushed Hestia/Hades or Dionysos to the last… the edge, Nov.-Jan. It makes sense now.

Also, the relation between Ara and the bees: tyr already has nek*-tar [lit. death-crossing].

Further, Ara - to burn.. is related to 'Tapas' [seething, brooding, boiling].

And out of Tapas is born Rta.

Will cont. on this, something I need to add.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:49 am

Black Panther wrote:
For 10 years I had concentrated only on Algiz, which my teacher interpreted as Mannaz, to form a sense of what runes are. Both the common Mannaz and the Algiz rune satisfy the general concept of up-holding, Man as dharma. But the more complex glyph, which seems to be a deepening or collapsing into lock of the previous, Ehwaz, represents a complex construct, things hooking into each other, whereas the Algiz rune represents only the magician when he still was two arms to to the heavens. Nauthiz is the magician with his lowered left arm.

Satyr and I have been discussing nothing but Algiz since the last two years with the Hannibal TV series. Have you watched any episodes? The  elk is the diabolos. "Personal gravity is Luck."

I could share that here if you want to read.


Black Panther wrote:
As for the Caesar and the Christ. It is easy to underestimate the necessity of the Christ for the existence of Nietzsche. Nietzsche did very well in making this so hard to see, because we had to be free of all the Christians, except that first one which Nietzsche thought of as the only one. "We are sons of God, what is the law to us?", Christ as iconoclast, before he became icon. Nietzsche learned from what was made of his teaching (praxis, spirit) by the hands of lesser men, and made sure never to make it so easy for his students to become satisfied.

Too much to address here.

To correct you, the only thing N. said was the death of god was Xt.'s own logical outcome of its drive, its "will to truth" that undid itself… and N. claimed "we are all the heirs of this". Saying Xt. made a N. possible means nothing when I might as well say Plato-nism made a Christ possible and so a N. etc.
If it depends on where you draw the frame, then the only thing we can say is that knowledge is an infinite regress.

The first iconoclast was Socrates. N. said somewhere it was Socrates/ism he was struggling with all his life. That is more understandable as I'm pretty much in the same boat, given, there is an exoteric and esoteric component that cannot be neatly separated.
And this is exactly what a Daimon means. Not dimensions that you add that you can subtract whimsically, but like the PNR - point of no return,, there's no going back once you make that surge.
You can shift and move from perspectives, but you can't undo.
Socrates put to death for preaching virtue was even mistaken by the Xt. world as prophesying the Christ.

Second. The inference that N. was merely filling the gaps and adding flesh to the beast that Xt. crucified is so crude. Satyr speaks of the werewolf as going feverish [breivik as example] as the sign of a body trying to eliminate toxins… sweating it out.
N. was no werewolf… but snake and eagle.
Cricification does not liberate any creative energies; taming and impotency produces a temporary backlash like the ember that glows bright just before being extinguished…
One must be really weak to see this as a creative fire.
Instead of taming, there was also a disciplining of the beast. This was buddhism.

Third. That 'to speak in terms of creator and creation is to speak the language of Xt.' - is not only incorrect, but also ridiculous. You could say Xt. was the first to recognize existentialism and its pathos, only IF existentialism meant suffering in a world that changes.
Greek existentialism and individuality has been there since Achilles pre-meditating over his choice between the value of two values.

Courage means, even if you cant discover something, then you do not cling on to the most resembling, but you rather invent your own.

If I cannot find one decent example of the most "spontaneous" human being since million years of history, I am not going to improve upon shitty models.

Is Christ the best you've got?!

Let dead skins shed and new spots grow on the panther

Nihilism is the very fear of emptiness, of loss of meaning, of 'space-orienters' being taken away from you.
I rather have nothing and start from 0, than cling to orienters pushing me in the wrong direction making me retreat after all the progress since N., humanity has achieved.

Amor Fati: To say yes, And NO.

Be better. Be more. Be strong for all of the future.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:03 pm

Zoot Allures wrote:
Now suppose there was a way to do each stage 'right'.. what would that mean.. to do it right? What would happen if you did it wrong? Let's say you'd have to do it again, maybe. Okay...so? There you are, doing it again.. not qualitatively different than an eternal recurrence of the same.

If you have really read N. even slytly you would know he differentiates willing and willing in a certain direction.

At some point, some degree quantity becomes quality and it makes all the difference among humans in the natural world… where perception, judgement and consequences still have a cost. And for some, it doesn't have to be so pronounced to have to come to life or death before they feel the impetus to act.

The higher kind of being - the slightest stimulus suffices.

The Arbitrary argument is ridiculous… its like asking why doesnt someone drink through their nose just because they could.

rest, maybe later.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:23 am

I never meant to say this is all Nietzsche was or did. I am no Christian, I havent even read the bible beyond a couple of lines, but I sense there is an element to the best spirit of it that resounds well in N, and in him as the first good resounding chamber, the first one who could make the claim Jesus made as a fool, as a wise man.  But screw this, you are right there is no force or juice in any of this.

[edit - why I keep finding small but true connections- there is a noble force emanating out of - not exactly all, some - 'early christianities'. Such forms are always in part the congregation of braving men revering their souls at the solstice, uninitiated into the hideous forms of Paul the epileptic on whom Nietzsche says: "that disastrous wrong-headed fellow must be held responsible. "]

One thing I want to make clear is that my written positions can not yet at once reflect the whole of my perspective. I deal in at least three distinct cognitive languages, coherences, value systems. They are progressing toward a similar point; but only in my heart is that seen or known. It will be made manifest at one point. I am still 'pregnant', the different limbs I speak of will turn out to be part of the same child.

You know the weight and massiveness of this process we drive. You know why I instate a 13 year calendar. It is not because I believe in hurrying.

The note about ancestry and Rudra is well received [powerful beast, scares the shit out of people merely to think about him] I am interested in that discussion on Algiz.


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:48 pm

I encountered the runes by asking nicely. I was the first one allowed to see this man ( whose last name means 'of the Wyrd'. ) in the process of rune drawing. It makes quite a few people uncomfortable to see the first method, the release of motoric memory. The rune painting begins in the second part.





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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:19 pm

"Second. The inference that N. was merely filling the gaps and adding flesh to the beast that Xt. crucified is so crude."

Never meant to imply that. Primarily, Nietzsche is a prophet of the wild, but he understood himself to be a direct response to Christianity whenever he wrote about it. Now a 180 degree difference is - what?

In his capacity of a response to Christianity, which by no means is his full capacity, he is someone easer to associate with Jesus than with any of those who tried to imitate him. Like all great men, one comes to likeness easier by attacking than by following. And even where N is the antithesis to JC, he stands 2000 years down the line of scientific work, which places him in a different paradigm of power as knowledge.

In as far as Nietzsche has anything to do with Jesus, I doubt that Jesus would dislike the way he went about it.

Forgive me my lack of hostility versus that pacifist of the late Hellenic world, the Socrates of the wretched, who had to be un-wretched to fulfill this task. But I will keep it to myself from hereonout.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:35 am

Quote :
I'll grant you all that sounds desperately pointless. I have no idea what I can help you with or why you post these .... ruminations...(fears? beliefs?) in this thread.

On the contrary, I think what is desperately pointless is the study of this kind of material. What I explained earlier (as my own beliefs) you can consider the practical ends of this kind of metaphysical theorizing. Narrowing it down; mortality and annihilation at death, transmigration of the self-same soul after physical death to a final destination (or state), transmigration of the self-same soul to a next stage in a series without any final destination, or an eventual repetition of the self-same soul.

Now in any of these cases, at no given point would any experience be qualitatively different than any other... you are just 'being' again.

Wittgenstein wrote:
Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.

Be that as it may, whatever you choose to believe is 'true' or 'useful' to you in this process of existing could in fact be false and useless, and you would not know the difference. On the other hand, if you insist on being a Builder you must understand that you can NEVER tell the people what I have explained to you, and it will be difficult for you to continue on knowing it's all silly nonsense.. some nights you will want to commit all your work to the flames a la Hume, and there will be moments when you feel you cannot tell the noble lie any longer. But this is a burden a builder must bear ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]).
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:01 pm

Ill teach you something about rank an merit.

You have no merit, so you have no rank.

You present only the pride of ignorance, i.e. the archetypical stupid. When I read your post I continuously notice there isn't anything in them.

Just to not give you any false hopes.
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