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 Paganism and natural order.

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Black Panther

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:39 am

Ill grant you all that sounds desperately pointless. I have no idea what I can help you with or why you post these .... ruminations...(fears? beliefs?) in this thread.

If you want something from me you can just ask. Cant promise to make your life less repetitive though.
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:12 pm

Some basics on the origin of correlation between astrology and practical life events.


The bases in relating the microcosm to the macrocosm.

Man is both the sacrifice and the sacrificer. As the latter, he is in his creative aspect and tries to regenerate the world that is falling apart [sacrificing itself].

The terrestrial fire [Agni/ignus/ignition] is his immortal seed that he pours forth into a sanctified portion of the earth he calls the altar and equivalent to the female womb, to kindle the world.
The ancient texts anthropomorphize this energy as a golden foetus that grows step by step. Each step is called a support and establishes a foundation for the next one.

Quote :
"He hangs a gold plate (round his neck), and wears it; for that gold plate is the truth, and the truth is able to sustain that (fire ): by means of the truth the gods carried it, and by means of the truth does he now carry it.

Now that truth is the same as yonder sun. It is a gold (plate), for gold is light, and he (the sun) is the light; gold is immortality, and he is immortality. (immortal portion)
And as to why he puts on and wears the gold plate;--that plate is yonder sun, and man, in his human form, is unable to sustain that fire: it is only in this (solar or divine) form that he bears that (divine) form.

And, again, why he puts on and wears the gold plate;--this fire is seed poured out here; and the gold plate means vital energy (or brilliance) and vigour: he thus lays vital energy and vigour into that seed.

Now he carries him (Agni, the fire) by means of a netting*--he, Agni, is these worlds, and the netting is the regions, for by means of the regions these worlds are able to stand.

And, again, why he carries him by means of a netting,--he, Agni, is the year, and the netting is the seasons; for by means of the seasons the year is able to exist.

* Apparently a round netted mat, on which the fire-pan is to be placed, and which is fastened to a cord by means of six strings, thus somewhat resembling the scale of a balance." [Satapatha Brahmana, 6.7.1.18]

As in the passage above, the energy of the fire grows/spreads into directions. The directions multiply into day and night, and day and night into seasons and stars. The stars/constellations multiply into the year, and the year into the great golden self, called the Dweller or Purusha.
Just as man dwells in his house, the great Self dwells in the world.

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The progression is from the ancestors [Pitr] from whom one is born to the most liveliest self [Rudra or Isana]…
And so as per the basics of vastu or the science of architecture, the slope of the house is built with an increasing inclination from SW to NE.

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And corresponds to the increasing ascent of his kundalini or vitality:

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"Vaastu insists that the building, when constructed has an identity of its own. This is because, Vaastu designs the building to be a living organism with the capacity to pulsate from within like a human being and resonate with the pulsations of the occupants. The output of Vaastu is thus, the effect and influence of the built space on the emotional, physical and material aspects of a particular individual/ the sacrificer who is identified with that building."

Because man sees himself as a creator, the progression outwards moves from the most creative principle [brahma/centre space/navel that connects like an umblical cord to the universe/womb chamber/hearth] to the most daimonic [the directions that collapse space];
That is from Creative spark - Divine realm - Human realm - Daimonic realm

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The centre space or hall of a home should therefore never be cluttered. It should be given ample space.

Because the sun rises in the east, there is a 'natural logic' to the correspondence.

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The sun is the great victor and so the east is under the rule of Indra the hero. The West when the sun sets, is therefore where all that is not visible - magic arises, and criminals/sorcerers are active. So it fell under the rule of Varuna, the Over-seer, and who holds the 'fire in the waters'. Space was thought of as a large ocean in which the sun set.
From the East to the South, the celestial fire reaches its peak ignition - and so kitchens are located in the SE.
The South is the bottom 'mortal' part of the body and therefore under Yama - who reigns over discipline, death, justice. The North is the upper 'immortal' part of the body - the mind, and therefore under Kuber/Moon - who reigns over treasury and all that is valuable. What was valuable to the ancients was medicinal herbs and life-saving plants that grew under the moon… and mother's lore - that safe-guarded these 'treasures'. Moon - mind - medicine - myth…

Roughly;

Quote :
"East- Indra- Ruled by the solar deity- Aditya (Seeing the world, prosperity)

Southeast- Agni- Ruled by the fire deity - Agni (Energy Generating).

South- Yama- Ruled by lord of death - Yama (Vigilance).

Southwest- Pitru/Nairutya, Nirrti- Ruled by ancestors (History, Ancestor's blessings).

West- Varuna- Ruled by lord of water (Physical).

Northwest- Vayu- ruled by the god of winds (Guests, Travelling).

North- Kubera/Moon- Ruled by lord of wealth (Finance).

Northeast - Isana - Ruled by lord of dance shiva (Divinity, contemplation)

Center- Brahma- Ruled by the creator of the universe (Desire, Balancing)."

Quote :
"North-East: The period between 3 am and 6 am, just before sunrise, the Sun is in the North-Eastern part of the house. These hours are ideal for Yoga, meditation, or study as it is very quiet and peaceful.Therefore, the North-East corner is the best position for altar/ meditation room.

East: From 6 am to 9 am, the Sun is in the eastern part of the house. This is the time for bathing and preparing for the day, so East is a good location for a bathroom used for bathing purposes only.

South-East: The time between 9 am to 12 in the noon, when the Sun is in the South-East part of the house, is the best time for preparing food to be eaten later in the day. Therefore, the kitchen can be located here.

South: After lunch it is time for rest, so the time between noon and 3 pm is called Vishranti, the resting period. The Sun is now in the South, and hence the best position for a bedroom.

South-West: After rest, from 3 pm to 6pm is the time for studying and work, and the Sun is now in the South-West section of the house, the ideal location for a study or library.

West: The period between 6 pm and 9 pm is the time for eating, sitting or reading. The Sun is in the
West and this is the best location for dining room or sitting room.

North-West: The time between 9 pm and midnight, when the Sun is in the North-West part of the house is the time to sleep. This part is a good location for another bedroom also.

North: The time between midnight and 3 am, when the Sun is in the Northern section, is the time of darkness and secrecy. The North is the best place to hide valuables and to keep them protected."

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The Year was the great Wheel.
Chants were syllables homologous to the parts of the wheel, whose rhythmic metres made the day and night revolve. A disruption in the ritual or 'gaps' in the performance was equivalent to falling off into the 'pit' or jaws of death.
The weaving of metres was like a fabric. The fabrication gave birth to a cosmos from the chaotic universe.
Prometheus' stealing of fire at the sacrificial banquet, 'instantiated' [introduced a 'lag'] a rupture into the smooth moving wheel [golden age].

So likewise in the other way, when there is entropy or the world/great Self which is the Year sacrifices,,, it breaks down into stars and stars into seasons and seasons into day and night, and day and night into directions and directions back into man's creative spark… his mind, his heart, his energy…
Because the stars are always in movement, yet the directions and layout are fixed, the Dweller also rotates and hence even the best and perfect vastu or science cannot avoid or stall misfortunes forever.

Step by step, it de-grades from centre inwards…

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And so the directions and time of day and night and the seasons and the stars all influence man at his various body parts. Roughly,

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Factoring in minute star transits degree by degree in each house, would give a chart like this:

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Rudolf Steiner [who I only agree with in the basic parts] explained how we take our food from the mineral kingdom, plants and animals who are environmentally influenced by fluctuations of seasons and stars… these are all subtle effects that interact with us. The linkage between mars and blood/reproductive related diseases like anaemia or hyper blood pressure or cancer in the ovaries or uterus, etc. are not unrelated. Likewise, a Uranus shift and the 60s revolution is not un-correlated. To see it - patterns like that, you also the need other planets in your favour that make that visibility possible.

Homology between the grounding grid and different parts of the Dweller:

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Alex Grey, Theologue

From this one also sees, what Nietzsche meant when he said its Nature that separates the four castes. The ancient tri-partite political arrangement around natural temperaments was the most golden logic and the most effective system.

In Rome, Vitruvius started with human anatomy. 4 fingers make 1 palm, and 4 palms make 1 foot, 6 palms make 1 cubit; 4 cubits make a man's height. And 4 cubits make one pace and 24 palms make a man; and used as a basis for his buildings.
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The entrances to the model of his ideal city corresponds to one of the fourwinds

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But more ancient than him, there were Roman rites exactly in parallel to the Vedic rites to the logic of architecture. It is detailed in the link I posted previously: Indo-Roman Sacred Space.
A synopsis of it can be found [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The book shows how:

Quote :
"In Vedic India the restricted sacred ground of the three fires, the space of the Devayajana, has adjacent to it a much larger sacred space, the Mahá vedi. In Rome, a homologous spatial and cultic juxtaposition exists. The smaller sacred space of the Roman city, defined by the boundary of the pomerium, is contiguous with a great sacred ground, the Ager Romanus. In India, the sacred spaces, large and small, are temporary structures — in effect, encampments established, then broken up to be established again… Contiguous temporary spaces have given way in the landed society of the Romans to a sacred geometry of a permanent nature."

In other words, originally, there was a systolic/dyastolic alternation of a periodic sacrificial pattern throughout Indo-Rome. Gradually, this became in Rome a permanent expansion outward under the name of the (Capitoline) 'triumph', and in India, a permanent contraction inward under the name of the 'nirvana'. Victory and liberation respectively became a static instead of dynamic affair, abstract concepts. For more on that, read also Indra Kagis' book on Vitruvius.

From a vertical point of view, the ancient topology of Spark - Divine - Human - Daimon evolved into the Pythagorean pyramidal triangle 1 - 2 - 3 - 4  called the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Till here, when Plato or Plotinus attributed the characters:

1 - Spark - One - Monad

2 - Divine - Mind - Dyad

3 - Human - Soul - Harmony

4 - Daimon - Senses/Elemental/Physical world - Kosmos

…it had a natural sense to it.

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Then, the gnostic, J.-Xt., Neo-Plotinian and other corruption judged the phenomenal world as gross/base and the noumenal world the highest.. when originally, it was a alternating/revolving reciprocity, keeping that thread looming.

The Pythagorean Tetractys like the Vedic Vastu based on the golden fire as mentioned at the very start was a sacred 'Truth'/'Satya' that the initiates could swear by.

The Pythagorean oath on the 'Dweller',

"By that pure, holy, four lettered name on high,
nature's eternal fountain and supply,
the parent of all souls that living be,
by him, with faith find oath, I swear to thee."

Because all of existence was based on this 1, 2, 3, 4, the "I Am" was later interpreted into the Kabbalistic YHVH meaning "I am that I am", etc.

_________________
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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:16 pm

Black Panther wrote:
Excellent. The gap between Tiwaz and Berkana is indeed maximal and the Birch rune itself is an apotheosis of the system.

Back to the seasonal compass; The squares are not to be disregarded either. Perhaps the most excessive points. We then have four cardinal junctures in a 13 month cycle, which becomes, with 12 cycles, 13 years. 4x13=52, "Jupiter weeks", which last more or less 13 weeks.

I am happy to attribute this to Berkana rather than to Eihwaz.
But since there are now four cardinal points, there must be 4 runes.
Jera and Eihwaz or Berkana and Tyr to occupy the squares? I think it is the point of maximal excess, and the greatest conflict of conscience. Fitting to be placed under the eye of the mightiest of justifying-gods - but no, the conjunction is the origin, the opposition the depth. Tiwaz and Berkana, it seems to me.



In the twilight of the gods between 12 [hanged man - Tyr's 'pledge'] and 13 [death - lightning edge], the relation between (s)word and sanctuary is joined by the word 'Sanction':

Dictionary wrote:
"1. Authoritative permission or approval that makes a course of action valid. a. 2. The penalty for noncompliance with a law or legal order.

Occasionally, a word can have contradictory meanings. Such a case is represented by sanction, which can mean both "to allow, encourage" and "to punish so as to deter." Sanction comes from the Latin word sānctiō, meaning "a law or decree that is sacred or inviolable." This noun is related to the Latin verb sancīre, which basically meant "to render sacred or inviolable by a religious act," but was also used in such extended meanings as "to ordain," "to decree," and "to forbid under pain of punishment." Thus from the beginning, two fundamental notions of law were wrapped up in the word: law as something that permits or approves and law that forbids by punishing. In English, the word sanction is first recorded in the mid-1500s in the meaning "law, decree." Not long after, in the 1600s, it also came to be used to refer to the penalty enacted to cause one to obey a law or decree. From the noun, a verb sanction was created in the 18th century meaning "to allow by law," but it wasn't until the second half of the 1900s that it began to mean "to punish (for breaking a law)." English has a few other words that can refer to opposites, such as the verbs dust (meaning both "to remove dust from" and "to put dust on") and trim (meaning both "to cut something away" and "to add something as an ornament")."

The Birch is also the tree used to carve the very runes on. So a kind of matrix - grammar - sanction.

In ancient Roman religion;

Quote :
"sancio

A verb meaning to ratify a compact and put it under the protection of a sanctio, penalty, sanction. The formation and original meaning of the verb are debated. Some scholars think it is derived by the IE stem root *sak (the same of sacer) through a more recent way of word formation, i.e. by the insertion of a nasal n infix and the suffix -yo, such as Lithuanian iung-iu from IE stem *yug. Thence sancio would mean to render something sacer, i.e. belonging to the gods in the sense of having their guarantee and protection. Some think it is a derivation from the theonym Sancus, the god of the ratification of foedera and protection of good faith, from the root sancu- plus suffix -io as inquio>incio. In such case the verb would mean an act that reflects or conforms to the function of this god, i.e. the ratifying and guaranteeing compacts.

sanctus

Sanctus, an adjective formed on the past participle of verb sancio, describes that which is "established as inviolable" or "sacred", most times in a sense different from that of sacer and religiosus. In fact its original meaning would be that which is protected by a sanction (sanctio). It is connected to the name of the Umbrian or Sabine founder-deity Sancus (in Umbrian Sancius) whose most noted function was the ratifying and protecting of compacts (foedera).

The Roman jurist Ulpian distinguishes sanctus as "neither sacred (sacer) nor profane (profanum) ... nor religiosus." Gaius writes that a building dedicated to a god is sacrum, a town's wall and gate are res sanctae because they belong "in some way" to divine law, and a graveyard is religiosus because it is relinquished to the di Manes. Thus some scholars think that it should originally be a concept related to space i.e. concerning inaugurated places, because they enjoyed the armed protection (sanctio) of the gods. Various deities, objects, places and people – especially senators and magistrates – can be sanctus. Claudia Quinta is described as a sanctissima femina (most virtuous woman) and Cato the Younger as a sanctus civis (a morally upright citizen).

Later the epithet sanctus is given to many gods including Apollo Pythius by Naevius, Venus and Tiberinus by Ennius and Livy: Ennius renders the Homeric dia theaoon as sancta dearum; in the early Imperial era, Ovid describes Terminus, the god who sanctifies land boundaries, as sanctus and equates sancta with augusta (august). The original spacial connotation of the word is still reflected in its use as an epithet of the river Tiber and of god Terminus that was certainly ancient: borders are sancti by definition and rivers used to mark borders. Sanctus as referred to people thus over time came to share some of the sense of Latin castus (morally pure or guiltless), pius (pious), and none of the ambiguous usages attached to sacer and religiosus."

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The area around the law-full Altar in a temple was usually regarded as a sanctuary. It was forged by Cyclopes… born of 'hundred arms of storm', and lightning and thunder. Keep in mind the relation with Ansuz too when the etymology goes to Asa, and the related word Area on the one hand could be tied to harvest of grains [jera] and also storage of grains [original use of the temple] from which metrics, account-keeping, promises, oaths began [tyr]. GvL. also gives Tyr the meaning 'to conceal' - and so, 'arcane', and 'arca' - strong box (pandora's box and the hesiodic turning of times).

The reading experience is better directly from the site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(I post it here in case the linked info. goes dead later on.)

Quote :
Ara

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"Ara represents the heavenly Altar created by the gods of Mount Olympus to celebrate the defeat of the titans where the gods swore their allegiance to the supreme god Zeus (Jupiter). The smoke from the altar was said to pour out to create the Milky Way. According to another account Ara was the altar on which the Centaur (Centaurus) offered his sacrifice of Lupus. Centaurus is traditionally depicted as carrying Lupus, the Wolf, to sacrifice on Ara, the altar. Ara was also known as the altar that Noah built after the great flood when his ark rested on Mt. Ararat.

"The beginning of the stormy season of late autumn, early winter was marked in Greece by the rise of the constellation Ara (the Altar). This altar was said to have been forged by the Kyklopes [Cyclops, maybe adjacent Telescopium] when the gods forged an alliance with Zeus against the Titanes. The eastern rising of the constellation probably represented the release of the storms from the Tartarean pit whose gates were guarded by the Hekatonkheires (the hundred-handed Storm-Gods) and Kyklopes (Gods of Lightning and Thunder)". [Theoi]

There is also an ancient sanctuary [at Korinthos] called the altar of the Kyklopes, and they sacrifice to the Kyklopes upon it." [Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 2. 1 Greek travelogue circa 2nd A.D.) from Theoi]

The word Ara comes from the Indo-European root *as- 'To burn, glow'. Derivatives: ash¹ (from Old English æsce, asce), Ara (probably denoting originally 'a parched place', from Latin ara), arid (from Latin aridus, dry, parched, from arere, to be dry), ardent, ardor (from Latin ardeo, ardere, be on fire, burn), arson (from Latin arsus from ardere, to burn, be on fire, from aridus, parched), zamia (tropical American cycads of the genus Zamia from Greek azein, to dry), azalea (from Greek azaleos, dry). [Pokorny as- 68. Watkins] The word area is cognate with arid.

"...the cut grain-sheaves arescunt, ‘dry out’ for threshing, is an area, ‘threshing-floor.' On account of the likeness to these, clean places in the city are called areae; from which may be also the Gods' ara ‘altar,' because it is clean—unless rather from ardor ‘fire’; for the intention of using it for an ardor makes it an ara; and from this the area itself is not far away, because it is the ardor of the sun which arefacit 'does the drying.'" [Varro: On The Latin Language, 1st century AD, p.37]

The English word altar is not related to Latin ara (and not related to the word 'alter,' meaning to change something). Latin altar, which was borrowed directly into Old English altar, was a derivative of the plural noun altaria, 'burnt offerings,' which probably came from the verb adolere, 'burn up.'

Noah built an altar to God and made an offering:

"And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odour..." [Gen 8]

"The ‘aroma’ is a picture of something pleasing to the Lord which runs throughout the Bible. In Gen 8:21, the Lord smelled the pleasing odour of the sacrifice and spoke a blessing upon the earth and mankind. Even in the sacrificial system, the rising smoke is spoken of as being ‘a pleasing odour to the Lord’ (Lev 1:9) that the offerer might find acceptance before Him" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

When the waters of the flood receded, and the Ark (Latin arca) came to rest on the mountains of Ararat in Armenia. There Noah built an altar to God, the first altar mentioned in the Bible, and made an offering. The ark is also identified with the Ship Argo Navis. It has been said that Noah might have used timber from the ark to build the altar which might account for the similarity of words; (where else would he have found the wood on that treeless snowy peak?) Isidore believed arca (ark) and ara (altar) are related:

"The Greeks called the front of the torso from the neck to the stomach the thorax; this is what we call the chest (arca), because in that place is a hidden (arcanus), that is, a secret thing, from which other people are shut out (arcere). From this also a strong box (arca) and an altar (ara) derive their names, as if the words meant 'secret things'” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.236.]

The word ark (might belong to Argo Navis) comes from the Indo-European root *ark- 'To hold, contain, guard'. Derivatives: arcane (mysteriously obscure, arcane language), ark, coerce (from Latin coercere, 'to constrain.' From Latin co-, 'together,' + arcere, 'to shut up, ward off, to box in, to enclose'), coercivity, exercise (ex- + arcere, the exercise of a duty. Exercise burns up calories), autarky (self-sufficiency, from Greek arkein, to ward off suffice), arcanum (a secret known only to the members of a small select group). [Pokorny areq- 65. Watkins] The Ark of the Covenant or Ark of the Testimony is the chest containing the Ten Commandments. Major Arcana are the trumph cards.

Titles for Ara were Focus, Lar, and Ignitabulum, all meaning a Hearth; and Greek Estia (Hestia), or Roman Vesta, the goddess of the hearth. Manilius says Vesta is associated with Capricorn). [The smoke from the hearth of Roman homes flowed into what was called an atrium - see adjacent Triangulum Australe]

"As the hearth of a house is at the same time the altar on which sacrifices are offered to the domestic gods (hestiouchoi or ephestioi), Hestia was looked upon as presiding at all sacrifices, and, as the goddess of the sacred fire of the altar, she had a share in the sacrifices in all the temples of the gods. (Hom. Hymn. in Ven. 31.) ...

As the goddess of the family hearth she also presided over the cooking of bread and the preparation of the family meal. Hestia was also the goddess of the sacrificial flame and received a share of every sacrifice to the gods. ... Hestia was the goddess of hearth, home and feast. By extension she also presided over the public hearths, namely the altars of the gods, and the state hearth. [Theoi]

"The goddess whom they call Hestia. Her power extends over altars and hearths, and therefore all prayers and all sacrifices end with this goddess, because she is the guardian of the innermost things." - [Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2.27 - Theoi]

"The word Vesta is of uncertain origin; possibly cognate with Greek estia or hestia, 'the hearth of the house' (whence estian, 'to receive at one's hearth')" [Klein], from Indo-European root *wes-3 'To live, dwell, pass the night, with derivatives meaning 'to be''. Derivatives: was, were, wassail (to drink to the health of; toast), astute (from Latin astutus, skill, craft - practiced in a town, - from Greek astu, town < 'place where one dwells'), divan (from Old Persian vahanam, house). [Pokorny 1. wes- 1170. Watkins]

In Cratylus by Plato, Socrates asks Hermogenes "What did he mean who gave the name Hestia?" and Socrates answers:

For example, that which we term ousia is by some called esia, and by others again osia. Now that the essence of things should be called estia, which is akin to the first of these (esia = estia, and Hestia), is rational enough. And there is reason in the Athenians calling that estia which participates in ousia. For in ancient times we too seem to have said esia for ousia, and this you may note to have been the idea of those who appointed that sacrifices should be first offered to estia (the name of Hestia), which was natural enough if they meant that estia was the essence of things. Those again who read osia seem to have inclined to the opinion of Heracleitus, that all things flow and nothing stands; with them the pushing principle (othoun) is the cause and ruling power of all things, and is therefore rightly called osia. [Cratylus, by Plato, Part 08]

Greek ousia 'being, essence' is the Ancient Greek noun formed on the feminine present participle for the Greek verb 'to be', einai, from the Indo-European root *es- 'To be'. Derivatives: prude (a characteristic of Vesta and the Vestal Virgins), prosit (a drinking toast, to wish good health or good fortune), am¹, is, yes, sooth, soothe, sin¹ (a transgression of a religious or moral law), suttee (the old practice of a Hindu widow's cremating herself on her husband's funeral pyre), entity, essence, essential, abessive, absent, adessive, essive, improve (Middle English improwen, to enclose land for cultivation, from Anglo-Norman emprouwer, to turn to profit: Old French en-, + Old French prou, profit, from Late Latin prode, advantageous), inessive, interest, present¹ (present time, pre- + esse, to be), present² (gift, pre- + esse), proud (pro- + esse, to be; pride), quintessence, represent, representation, stover (the dried stalks and leaves of a cereal crop, from Latin esse, to be). Basic form *es-: -ont, onto- (the present participle stem of einai ‘to be’.'In the beginning' meant also 'in the ontological principle' [1], ontogeny), -biont (bi(o)- + -ont, living organism; as in symbiont), Parousia (the Second Coming, Para-ousia, feminine present participle of pareinai, from para-, beside + einai, to be). Suffixed from es-ti-; swastika (from Sanskrit svasti, well-being; su- good; and -asti, 'is') [Pokorny es- 340. Watkins]

Transgendered (eunuch) priests were called essenes, 'king bees', or drones. Essential oils contain volatile aroma, or odor.

The word sin (from *es-) might relate to Sinai? The Ark of the Covenant or Ark of the Testimony is the chest containing the Ten Commandments; the ten injunctions given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, against sinning.

"In his account of the Fasti of the Roman year, Ovid twice recounted an anecdote of Priapus' foiled attempt on a sleeping nymph: once he told it of the nymph Lotis and then again, calling it a 'very playful little tale', he retold it of Vesta, the Roman equivalent of Hestia. In the anecdote, after a great feast, when the immortals were all either passed out drunk or asleep, Priapus — who had grotesquely large genitalia — spied Lotis/Vesta and was filled with lust for her. He quietly approached the nymph, but the braying of an ass awoke her just in time. She screamed at the sight [as a prude would] and Priapus immediately ran away" [2]. The story is told here - Ovid, Fasti 6.319. Lotis was a nymph of Greek mythology, the daughter of Poseidon or Nereus. Priapus tried to rape her and she was changed into a lotus tree to escape him [3].

“Vesta, because she is clothed (vestire) with plants and various things, or from 'enduring by her own power' (vi sua stare). ... They call this same one both Vesta and fire, because there is no doubt that the earth possesses fire, as can be seen from Etna and Vulcanus. And they thought she was a virgin because fire is an inviolable element, and nothing can be born from it; indeed it consumes all that it seizes...Ovid in the Fasti (6.291): Understand Vesta as no other than living flame - you see no bodies born from flame. Furthermore, virgins are said to wait on her, because just as nothing is born from a virgin, so nothing is born from fire.” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.187.]

Isidore says “Vesta, because she is clothed (vestire)...". Greek Hestia or Roman Vesta, presided at all sacrifices, she had a vested interest; her Vestial Virgins received a share of every sacrifice to the gods. Latin vestire is from the Indo-European root *wes-4 'To clothe' Extension of *eu-. Derivatives: wear, vest, devest, invest, revet, travesty, (these words from Latin vestis, garment). Suffixed form *wes-nu-; himation (woolen or linen cloak worn in ancient Greece, from Greek hennunai, to clothe). [Pokorny 5. wes- 1172. Watkins].

If the above associations are correct Ara would relate to these three words: Astute investments yield interest.

Indo-European root *wes-4 'To clothe' is an extension of *eu- 'To dress'. Latin exuere (exuuiae) is a cognate of vesta (uestis) and indutus is armor stripped from an enemy, but can also refer to a garment or animal skin. Derivatives: endue, indument (from induere, to put a garment on. Also a covering of fine hairs or scales), exuviae (the cast-off skins or coverings of various organisms, such as the shells of crabs or the external coverings of the larvae and nymphs of insects), reduviid (‘things cast off’, formed from exuere ‘to divest oneself of’. The assassin bug is called reduviid, of the family Reduviidae), indusium (the amnion of the fetus, from Latin indusium, a tunic, from induere to put on). [Pokorny 2. eu- 346. Watkins]

"Philolaus (fl. 470 BC) a pupil of Pythagoras, taught the earth floated in space and revolved in a circle once each day around a central fire, called 'the hearth of Zeus,' or the hearth of the universe" [4].

"[Constellation] Altar. On this altar the gods are thought to have first made offerings and formed an alliance when they were about to oppose the Titanes. The Cyclopes [see adjacent Telescopium] made it. From this observance men established the custom that when they plan to do something, they make sacrifices before beginning the undertaking. [Pseudo-Hyginus, Astronomica 2. 39 (trans. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D, from Theoi]

The Altar was a place where oaths were sworn: The Greek word for oath was horkos from where we get the word exorcise 'to drive out evil spirits', from Greek exorkizein, from ex- out + horkos.

On the constellation Ara, the altar, which formerly was called a well, according to Eratosthenes, Zeus swore his oath [horkos], before he attacked his father Kronos and threw him off his throne and out of the heavens, thus usurping the rule of Olympia in the first mythical dawn of gods and turn of an era of the ancient Greeks. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ovid expands on a theme ... that corpses littered the Athenian temples, and produces a clever and unobtrusive bilingual etymological wordplay, exoratis [exorcise] picks up the sense of imploration inherent in ara through its Greek origin. [Andreas Michalopoulos, Ancient Etymologies in Ovid's Metamorphoses]

Klein says that these words (from *ark- above) "stand in gradational relationship to Orcus, name of the god of the infernal regions in Roman mythology". Michael Paschalis in Virgil's Aeneid sees Virgil as also making this connection:

'Orcus', who exercises his power of keeping her [Dido] outside the boundary of the Underworld, because she is still living. Virgil's treatment of 'Orcus' also suggests an etymological association with arceo ('keep off'). ... and 'Orcus' have to do with bonds, boundaries, and barriers: oath (Greek orkos, horkos) 'binds'; Orcus punishes those who transgress the boundaries; 'Orcus' keeps off the living, and receives and keeps the dead within his 'enclosure'. [Virgil's Aeneid, Semantic Relations and Proper Names, p.179]

Isidore gives another likely derivation:

"Some call him Orcus, receiver of the dead, as it were - whence the vessel that receives water is called orca. He is also Charon in Greek.” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, p.186.]

In Roman mythology, Orcus was a god of the underworld, punisher of broken oaths [5]. Greek orkos, horkos, meaning oath or 'to swear', is similar to the name and function of Orcus. Our word exorcise, comes from Greek orkos, horkos, meaning to drive out evil spirits, literally ‘to swear out'. From Greek exorkezein, 'to bind by an oath; to banish an evil spirit', from Greek orkizein 'to make to swear', from orkos, 'an oath', literally 'a limitation, binding, obligation', in gradational relationship to erkhos, (for Greek serkos, 'enclosure, hedge, fence', and probably cognate with Latin sarcire, 'to patch, mend'. See sartorial [Klein]. Sartorial is from the Indo-European root *serk- 'To make whole'. Derivative: sartorius (from Latin sarcire, to mend, repair. [Pokorny serk- 912. Watkins] The sartorius is a flat narrow thigh muscle, the longest of the human anatomy, crossing the front of the thigh from the hip to the inner side of the tibia. Latin for tailor; hence, sartorius which produce the posture in which tailors once worked, squatting on the floor. The legal verb *sark- (infixed sar-ni-k-) 'make restitution', which matches Latin sarcire 'repair'.

A tailor, which the Latins called sarcitector, makes clothes (Latin vestire) to wear. A sarcitector also has another meaning:

“A sarcitector is so called because out of many planks joined together on this side and that he repairs (sarcire) one structure of a building” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.382.]

The ancients saw a link between the word Aries, and the word ara, meaning altar, Isidore says:

“The ram (aries) is either named after the word Ares, that is, after 'Mars' - whence we call the males in a flock 'males' (mas, genitive maris) - or because this animal was the first to be sacrificed on altars (ara, genitive aris) by pagans. So, the 'ram' because it was placed on the altar; whence also this (Sedulius, Paschal Poem 1.115):  The ram is offered at the altar.” [The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, 7th century AD, p.247.]"


Manillus saying Hestia is related to Capricorn: Sanctus Januarius

And Hestia connected to Wassail: Pluto's weal, Mars/Ares' ruled, but not Aries, since thunderstorms happen in the dark half.

Maybe its also why the Olympian pantheon pushed Hestia/Hades or Dionysos to the last… the edge, Nov.-Jan. It makes sense now.

Also, the relation between Ara and the bees: tyr already has nek*-tar [lit. death-crossing].

Further, Ara - to burn.. is related to 'Tapas' [seething, brooding, boiling].

And out of Tapas is born Rta.

Will cont. on this, something I need to add.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Black Panther wrote:
For 10 years I had concentrated only on Algiz, which my teacher interpreted as Mannaz, to form a sense of what runes are. Both the common Mannaz and the Algiz rune satisfy the general concept of up-holding, Man as dharma. But the more complex glyph, which seems to be a deepening or collapsing into lock of the previous, Ehwaz, represents a complex construct, things hooking into each other, whereas the Algiz rune represents only the magician when he still was two arms to to the heavens. Nauthiz is the magician with his lowered left arm.

Satyr and I have been discussing nothing but Algiz since the last two years with the Hannibal TV series. Have you watched any episodes? The  elk is the diabolos. "Personal gravity is Luck."

I could share that here if you want to read.


Black Panther wrote:
As for the Caesar and the Christ. It is easy to underestimate the necessity of the Christ for the existence of Nietzsche. Nietzsche did very well in making this so hard to see, because we had to be free of all the Christians, except that first one which Nietzsche thought of as the only one. "We are sons of God, what is the law to us?", Christ as iconoclast, before he became icon. Nietzsche learned from what was made of his teaching (praxis, spirit) by the hands of lesser men, and made sure never to make it so easy for his students to become satisfied.

Too much to address here.

To correct you, the only thing N. said was the death of god was Xt.'s own logical outcome of its drive, its "will to truth" that undid itself… and N. claimed "we are all the heirs of this". Saying Xt. made a N. possible means nothing when I might as well say Plato-nism made a Christ possible and so a N. etc.
If it depends on where you draw the frame, then the only thing we can say is that knowledge is an infinite regress.

The first iconoclast was Socrates. N. said somewhere it was Socrates/ism he was struggling with all his life. That is more understandable as I'm pretty much in the same boat, given, there is an exoteric and esoteric component that cannot be neatly separated.
And this is exactly what a Daimon means. Not dimensions that you add that you can subtract whimsically, but like the PNR - point of no return,, there's no going back once you make that surge.
You can shift and move from perspectives, but you can't undo.
Socrates put to death for preaching virtue was even mistaken by the Xt. world as prophesying the Christ.

Second. The inference that N. was merely filling the gaps and adding flesh to the beast that Xt. crucified is so crude. Satyr speaks of the werewolf as going feverish [breivik as example] as the sign of a body trying to eliminate toxins… sweating it out.
N. was no werewolf… but snake and eagle.
Cricification does not liberate any creative energies; taming and impotency produces a temporary backlash like the ember that glows bright just before being extinguished…
One must be really weak to see this as a creative fire.
Instead of taming, there was also a disciplining of the beast. This was buddhism.

Third. That 'to speak in terms of creator and creation is to speak the language of Xt.' - is not only incorrect, but also ridiculous. You could say Xt. was the first to recognize existentialism and its pathos, only IF existentialism meant suffering in a world that changes.
Greek existentialism and individuality has been there since Achilles pre-meditating over his choice between the value of two values.

Courage means, even if you cant discover something, then you do not cling on to the most resembling, but you rather invent your own.

If I cannot find one decent example of the most "spontaneous" human being since million years of history, I am not going to improve upon shitty models.

Is Christ the best you've got?!

Let dead skins shed and new spots grow on the panther

Nihilism is the very fear of emptiness, of loss of meaning, of 'space-orienters' being taken away from you.
I rather have nothing and start from 0, than cling to orienters pushing me in the wrong direction making me retreat after all the progress since N., humanity has achieved.

Amor Fati: To say yes, And NO.

Be better. Be more. Be strong for all of the future.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:03 pm

Zoot Allures wrote:
Now suppose there was a way to do each stage 'right'.. what would that mean.. to do it right? What would happen if you did it wrong? Let's say you'd have to do it again, maybe. Okay...so? There you are, doing it again.. not qualitatively different than an eternal recurrence of the same.

If you have really read N. even slytly you would know he differentiates willing and willing in a certain direction.

At some point, some degree quantity becomes quality and it makes all the difference among humans in the natural world… where perception, judgement and consequences still have a cost. And for some, it doesn't have to be so pronounced to have to come to life or death before they feel the impetus to act.

The higher kind of being - the slightest stimulus suffices.

The Arbitrary argument is ridiculous… its like asking why doesnt someone drink through their nose just because they could.

rest, maybe later.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:23 am

I never meant to say this is all Nietzsche was or did. I am no Christian, I havent even read the bible beyond a couple of lines, but I sense there is an element to the best spirit of it that resounds well in N, and in him as the first good resounding chamber, the first one who could make the claim Jesus made as a fool, as a wise man.  But screw this, you are right there is no force or juice in any of this.

[edit - why I keep finding small but true connections- there is a noble force emanating out of - not exactly all, some - 'early christianities'. Such forms are always in part the congregation of braving men revering their souls at the solstice, uninitiated into the hideous forms of Paul the epileptic on whom Nietzsche says: "that disastrous wrong-headed fellow must be held responsible. "]

One thing I want to make clear is that my written positions can not yet at once reflect the whole of my perspective. I deal in at least three distinct cognitive languages, coherences, value systems. They are progressing toward a similar point; but only in my heart is that seen or known. It will be made manifest at one point. I am still 'pregnant', the different limbs I speak of will turn out to be part of the same child.

You know the weight and massiveness of this process we drive. You know why I instate a 13 year calendar. It is not because I believe in hurrying.

The note about ancestry and Rudra is well received [powerful beast, scares the shit out of people merely to think about him] I am interested in that discussion on Algiz.


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:48 pm

I encountered the runes by asking nicely. I was the first one allowed to see this man ( whose last name means 'of the Wyrd'. ) in the process of rune drawing. It makes quite a few people uncomfortable to see the first method, the release of motoric memory. The rune painting begins in the second part.





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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:19 pm

"Second. The inference that N. was merely filling the gaps and adding flesh to the beast that Xt. crucified is so crude."

Never meant to imply that. Primarily, Nietzsche is a prophet of the wild, but he understood himself to be a direct response to Christianity whenever he wrote about it. Now a 180 degree difference is - what?

In his capacity of a response to Christianity, which by no means is his full capacity, he is someone easer to associate with Jesus than with any of those who tried to imitate him. Like all great men, one comes to likeness easier by attacking than by following. And even where N is the antithesis to JC, he stands 2000 years down the line of scientific work, which places him in a different paradigm of power as knowledge.

In as far as Nietzsche has anything to do with Jesus, I doubt that Jesus would dislike the way he went about it.

Forgive me my lack of hostility versus that pacifist of the late Hellenic world, the Socrates of the wretched, who had to be un-wretched to fulfill this task. But I will keep it to myself from hereonout.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:35 pm

Quote :
I'll grant you all that sounds desperately pointless. I have no idea what I can help you with or why you post these .... ruminations...(fears? beliefs?) in this thread.

On the contrary, I think what is desperately pointless is the study of this kind of material. What I explained earlier (as my own beliefs) you can consider the practical ends of this kind of metaphysical theorizing. Narrowing it down; mortality and annihilation at death, transmigration of the self-same soul after physical death to a final destination (or state), transmigration of the self-same soul to a next stage in a series without any final destination, or an eventual repetition of the self-same soul.

Now in any of these cases, at no given point would any experience be qualitatively different than any other... you are just 'being' again.

Wittgenstein wrote:
Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.

Be that as it may, whatever you choose to believe is 'true' or 'useful' to you in this process of existing could in fact be false and useless, and you would not know the difference. On the other hand, if you insist on being a Builder you must understand that you can NEVER tell the people what I have explained to you, and it will be difficult for you to continue on knowing it's all silly nonsense.. some nights you will want to commit all your work to the flames a la Hume, and there will be moments when you feel you cannot tell the noble lie any longer. But this is a burden a builder must bear ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]).
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:01 pm

Ill teach you something about rank an merit.

You have no merit, so you have no rank.

You present only the pride of ignorance, i.e. the archetypical stupid. When I read your post I continuously notice there isn't anything in them.

Just to not give you any false hopes.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:51 pm

That's it. I'm calling the panther control services.
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:39 am

Lol. Look Zootl, I know youve often felt that urge to destroy your writing, and actually done that. I am not lying when I say I felt sorry for you (and those that trust you) when you destroyed your forum, and wondered what could be so ... wrong in your eyes to your own work; which I, granted, found to be pointless, but charming. Whats wrong with a little pointless charm?
Now I see - you wish to amount to something.

You are already something.

You are nice.
You have a style of sorts.
And polite you are.

Thats something, several somethings.

Now, be grateful for what you are and love some neighbor. Stick to what you have to offer.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:31 am

Black Panther wrote:
I sense there is an element to the best spirit of it that resounds well in N, and in him as the first good resounding chamber, the first one who could make the claim Jesus made as a fool, as a wise man.

What claim is that?

Quote :
[edit - why I keep finding small but true connections- there is a noble force emanating out of - not exactly all, some - 'early christianities'. Such forms are always in part the congregation of braving men revering their souls at the solstice, uninitiated into the hideous forms of Paul the epileptic on whom Nietzsche says: "that disastrous wrong-headed fellow must be held responsible. "]

What noble teachings were they - what did you take from them?

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:32 am

Black Panther wrote:
One thing I want to make clear is that my written positions can not yet at once reflect the whole of my perspective. I deal in at least three distinct cognitive languages, coherences, value systems. They are progressing toward a similar point; but only in my heart is that seen or known.

A language that flows along-with rather than an orthogonal signification; its like the fylgja [spiritbeing] keeping step with the panther [becoming] - the sovereign And the beast... incidentally, your avatar pic. was mine a couple of years ago on this forum. When the mimesis is cohesive, you have the "metaphysical bone", the fylgja is able to leap when the panther does:

Nietzsche wrote:
"Spirit and character. - Some reach their peak as characters, but their spirit is not adequate for this height, while with others it is the other way around." [JW, 235]

And the word and the world concentrate opening a vortex but only for a brief moment.

Frazer called this sympathetic magic, you would call this spontaneity, Heraclitus would call this attunement, Satyr calls it mirroring (double) or persuasion (peitho) and I see in it the uruz<>algiz concordance.

Algiz: one's spirit and character must be adequate for each other.

"My character is my fate (daimon)." [Heraclitus]

"What fate, what accident could befall me now, that was not already my own..." [N.]
- The idea of personal gravity/luck.

"Hoof and horn, hoof and horn
All that dies shall be reborn
Corn and grain, corn and grain
All that falls shall rise again"


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Quote :
"The rune of Algiz depicts a person with arms upraised, elk's antlers, or a representation of the Norse God Heimdall who holds his sword in one hand and his horn in the other -- guarding the divine realm of Asgard. In the old Germanic languages, Algiz means "defense" or "protection". "Elhaz", yet another name for this rune, means "elk" and refers to the four elks that feed off of the World Tree of Norse legend, or Yggdrasil."

Quote :
"The symbol itself could represent the upper branches of Yggdrasil, a flower opening to receive the sun (Sowilo is the next rune in the futhark after all,) the antlers of the elk, the Valkyrie and her wings, or the invoker stance common to many of the world’s priests and shamans. In a very contemporary context, the symbol could be powerfully equated to a satellite dish reaching toward the heavens and communicating with the gods and other entities throughout this and other worlds."

Quote :
"Spiritually, it signifies the reaching of the divine. The rune also means success through quest, search or other enterprise. Schemes develop quickly, like a fast growing pine tree. You are protected from any attack, while awareness and alertness guide you. Vision, clarity of mind and wisdom will support your cause."

Quote :
"One interpretation of the stave-shape is that it shows a human with head and hands upraised in the Teutonic stance of prayer, or willed and mutual communication between gods and humans.
It is the rune by which one may hold speech with one´s own valkyrja, the swan-winged bringer of wisdom and messenger between god and humans. Bifrost may only be crossed by humans when they are guided by the valkyrja, when the increase of dust - that is, the full melding of the highest being of the soul with the living human awareness - has taken place.
One may use the original tree-form to draw power from all the worlds.
Elhaz may be used to cause woe to those who are spiritually unrefined to benefit from its cleansing fire."

Quote :
"The antlers are a symbol of spiritual authority because they grow above the physical head, reaching towards the realm of spirit. They signify regeneration, because they die and grow back, bigger than before. They are worn by Cernunnos, the ancient Celtic Master of the Animals, by Mongol women shamans, and by the rotiyaner or “men of good minds”, the traditional chiefs of the Six Nations of the Longhouse, or Iroquois. Visually, deer antlers suggest the shape of a tree, even the World Tree that shamans climb; the resemblance is in the French word for antlers, which are called thebois - wood – of the deer."

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Quote :
"Deer's medicine includes gentleness in word, thought and touch. The ability to listen, grace and appreciation for the beauty of balance. Understanding of what's necessary for survival, power of gratitude and giving, ability to sacrifice for the higher good, connection to the woodland goddess, alternative paths to a goal

In the Celtic tradition, there are two aspects of deer - female and male. The Hind (the red female deer), called Eilid in the Gaelic language, symbolises femininity, subtlety and gracefulness. The Hind is believed to call to us from the Faery realm, tempting us to release the material trappings of so-called 'civilization', to go deep into the forest of magic, to explore our own magical and spiritual nature. The Stag, Damh in the Gaelic tongue, is also linked to the sacredness of the magical forest. The Damh represents independence, purification, and pride. It is known as the King of the Forest, the protector of its creatures. For time immemorial people have sought to identify with the stag by ceremonially wearing antlered headdresses and imitating the deer's leaping grace.

They can hear a twig snap a very long way off. People with this power animal are often described as being swift and alert. They are intuitive, often seeming to possess well developed, even extrasensory perceptions. Sometimes their thoughts seem to race ahead, and they appear not to be listening, to be somewhere else. Anyone with power animal has latent clairvoyant and clairaudient abilities. They can see between the shadows, detect subtle movements and hear that which is not being uttered.

The set of antlers grown by the male deer are antennae that connect it to higher energies.
Called ‘The Crown of Courage’, the antlers are linked to the crown chakra in man. As the antlers grow, the crown chakra opens and widens giving those with this power animal a direct channel to universal knowledge."


Quote :
"Elk...
Your antlers reach for the Sun.

Shamans could make this trip without the need of an actual reindeer. Instead, they “turn[ed] into a... reindeer” and flew to the sun on their own, dressed in antlers and a feathered cloak, beating a reindeer skin drum. In a sense, their power was a result of an experience analogous to joining the Wild Hunt — they had previously re-enacted and identified with the death of a reindeer whose spirit lived on in them. Having followed him into death, they were able to fly into new worlds. Similarly, the Huichol Sacred Deer led his people to the site of his own death, where his body had first become the peyote. Re-enacting that death by shooting the plant with arrows, pilgrims could then take advantage of his sacrifice and ride the drug-that-was-the-deer to a new life.

Civilizations developed other ways to get to the sun. In the meditative archery of ancient Turkey and India, arrows were aimed at shining discs, with the imagery of piercing the sun to reach an unnameable beyond. In late Roman times, the sun-god’s chariot bore emperors aloft to the sun, the natural destination of the soul freed from the wheel of fate. But the tradition of following the stag who bears the sun has an even longer history and reflects our inescapable rootedness in the natural world. To be more, to reach higher, we must unite ourselves all the more deeply with the forces of earth and the wild, forces which are always branching outward, rising upward, like a crown of antlers. It is they that sweep us from one world, one state of consciousness, to the next. That is why, for much of human history, the journey of transcendence was not governed by human will or won by human hand, but instigated and led by the antlered ones, those most ancient messengers from the more-than-human world."

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The antlers of the deer represented in the rune Algiz symbolized a man with hands upstretched to the vaults of space, an evolution of consciousness branching out from one's fatedness... to become light, create a world of one's own...

Spengler wrote:
"The hand. Here is a weapon unparalleled in the world of free-moving life. Compare with it the paw, the beak, the horns, teeth, and tail-fins of other creatures. To begin with, the sense of touch is concentrated in it to such a degree that it can almost be called the organ of touch, in the sense that the eye is the organ of vision, and the ear of hearing. It distinguishes not only hot and cold, solid and liquid, hard and soft, but, above all, weight, form, and position of resistances, etc. — in short, things in space. But, over and above this function, the activity of living is gathered into it so completely that the whole bearing and allure of the body has — simultaneously — taken shape in accordance with it. There is nothing in the whole world that can be set beside this member, capable equally of touch and action. To the eye of the beast of prey which regards the world “theoretically” is added the hand of man which commands it practically." [Man and Technics]

The horn and the devil - the diablo, the double.

The Luciferian uses his Charisma to persuade others to Re-cognize their innate potential as a Lover would.

Venus of whose sign it is, is the planet of love and love-charms.
This involves an opening of consciousness.

Intimacy.

Quote :
"No one can be fully aware of another human being unless we love them.
By that love we see potential in our beloved.
Through that love we allow our beloved to see their potential.
Expressing that love, our beloved's potential comes true." [Hannibal, 2.9]


Quote :
"Never touching but guiding them from dissonance towards conversation..." [Hannibal, 2.10]


Quote :
"You and I went so long in our friendship without ever touching; yet I almost felt attuned to you." [Hannibal, 2.10]


Quote :
"Sympathetic resonance or sympathetic vibration is a harmonic phenomenon wherein a formerly passive string or vibratory body responds to external vibrations to which it has a harmonic likeness. The classic example is demonstrated with two similar tuning-forks of which one is mounted on a wooden box. If the other one is struck and then placed on the box, then muted, the un-struck mounted fork will be heard. In similar fashion, strings will respond to the external vibrations of a tuning-fork when sufficient harmonic relations exist between the respective vibratory modes. A unison or octave will provoke the largest response as there is maximum likeness in vibratory motion."

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When one dies, the other carries on the vibration, the poetic notes, the heart-beat...

This was the meaning of the genius. Being in-touch with the Double, the Diablo - that the Protraction of one's vibration even when dead, could stretch even across centuries setting another in motion.

Quote :
"Genius is — literally — creative power, the divine spark in the individual life that in the stream of the generations mysteriously and suddenly appears, is extinguished, and a generation later reappears with equal suddenness. Talent is a gift for particular tasks already there, which can be developed by tradition, teaching, training, and practice to high effectiveness. Talent in its exercise presupposes genius — and not vice versa." [Spengler, Man and Technics]

But intimacy is not always a happy affair, the "breach of individual separateness" is a dangerous one...
The antlers protrude and are intrusive and you can't be sure what kind of charged particles enter your blood-stream…
Its why the ancients advised to always keep good company.

Quote :
"I sold my soul to the devil… I sold my soul to the Devil,
No for a farthing not for a shilling
But the knowledge of my own ignorance.
And in its place I have but a dull void
Of loneliness in this unworthy, miserable world.
I sold my soul to the Devil,
Because I couldn’t live with it,
It has revealed in an awful whisper
To me, all that is better left unsaid.
I envy ignorance and purity of heart,
For me its no use, what’s done will not be altered,
The Devil, is my only trusted friend
And for my soul he is in my debt.
The truth that we would rather not have known
Cannot escape from my unveiled sight
And I’ll make it my revenge on those who are happier then I,
To crush the fortress,
To remove the blinds
And to present you with the naked, vulgar Truth."


The Naked Vulgar Truth...

Quote :
"What, then, are the basic forms of the speaking? Not the judgment and declaration, but the command, the expression of obedience, the enunciation, the question, the affirmation or negation. These are sentences, originally quite brief, which are invariably addressed to others, such as “Do this!” “Ready?” “Yes!” “Go ahead!” Words as designations of notions are only products of the object of the sentence, and hence it is that the vocabulary of a hunting tribe is from the outset different from that of a village of cowherds or a seafaring coastal population.

The original object of speech is the carrying out of an act in accordance with intention, time, place, and means. Clear and unequivocal construction is therefore the first essential, and the difficulty of both conveying one’s meaning to, and imposing one’s will on, another produced the technique of grammar, sentences, and constructions, the correct modes of ordering, questioning, and answering, and the building-up of classes of words — on the basis of practical and not theoretical intentions and purposes. The part played by theoretical reflectiveness in the beginnings of speaking in sentences was practically nil. All speech was of a practical nature and proceeded from the “thought of the hand.”" [Spengler, Man and Technics]

Yet, from the diabolical point of view,

The weight attached to a fork can also be thought of as an idea or Accentuation we implant in another, to generate a beat, an interaction within specific range.

Isn't that how Strauss and Nietzsche thought too? Displaying only a certain range, and letting the other hear what it wants to hear...
Isn't that how even popular democracy works?
You find that frequency which evokes maximum resonance possible and extract approval, set them all vibrating to you…

Sloterdijk wrote:
"With Marshall Mc­ Luhan, I presuppose that understanding between people in societies-above all, what they are and achieve in general-has an autoplastic meaning. These conditions of communication provide groups with a redundancy in which they can vibrate. They imprint on such groups the rhythms and models by which they are able to recognize themselves and by which they repeat themselves as almost the same. They produce a consensus in which they perform the eternal return of the same in the form of a spoken song. Languages are instruments of group narcissism, played so as to tune and retune the player; they make their speakers ring in singular tonalities of self-excitation. They are systems of melodies for recognition, which nearly always delineate the whole program as well. Languages are not primarily used for what is today called the passing on of information, but serve to form communicating group-bodies. People possess lan­guage so that they can speak of their own merits [Vorziigen]-and not least of the unsurpassable merit of being able to talk up these merits in their own language. First, and for the most part, people are not concerned to draw each other's attention to states of affairs, but aim instead to incorporate states of affairs into a glory. The different speaker-groups of history-all the various tribes and peoples-are self-praising entities that avail themselves of their own inimitable idiom as part of a psychosocial contest played to gain advantage for themselves." [Nietzsche Apostle]


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Quote :
"The word coupling denotes the idea that in a molecule, vibrational and electronic interactions are interrelated and influence each other. Among the many forms of coupling there are also Entanglement, Quantum Entanglement, Sympathy, Sympathetic Association, Sympathetic Oscillation, Sympathetic Vibration.
"Norman Lockyer, in his book "The Chemistry of the Sun" says that, in dealing with molecules one feels as if dealing with more a mental than physical attribute - "a sort of expression of free will on the part of the molecules." Also "The law that connects radiation with absorption and enables us to read the riddle set by the sun and stars, is then simply The law of Sympathetic Vibration." The Snell Manuscript"


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Armies and their marching beat too must work on this psychic principle...

The blond beast moving as one unit.

Satyr wrote:
To know other is to know self.
The best pretenders control the varieties of personality already in them.

When a liar convinces the other, a conman exploits, a magician performs his trickery, the seducer seduces, he is only pulling out of the other what was there all along.
He cannot place what he then manipulates there, he must only (re)cognize it, as himself in otherness, and if his understanding of self is precise he can direct it.

There is a psychological equivalent in the tuning-fork example of in-tune vibrations.
I think it is called mirroring.
The alteration in tone, caused by placing a piece over one part of one of the tuning-forks, can be considered a form of control.

Someone in control of his self, his vibrations, his becoming, can adjust his tone, so as to produce in the other a congruence.
The second believes the first is like it, because both vibrate the same, they are in tune. The first can adjust his tone to what is within his ability.
Solitude can be the product of this controlled adjustment, where the tuning-fork never allows for the entire breadth of its vibrations to be heard, for whatever reason, and is constantly adjusting to remain within the harmonics of otherness.

The factor here is the common ground.
Synchronization only when the participants share a foundation.

A socioeconomic/cultural system provides this ritualized, order; the predictable, solid but (re)active grounding.
Language and how words are defined is how this happens memetically, in synchronizing thoughts.

"God" as the representation of this immutable, determining, higher order, residing in the "immanent", the receding past, dies, in this slow falling back.
Man can now shape the past - as Orwell described it - taking God's place as the creating "word."

The word is freed from a Being.
Man becomes the shaper of his own reality, by taking control over the word.
Man becomes the shape-shifter, the doppelganger.
And what is shaped more easily than flesh, but inanimate matter: plastic, fabric, metal.
To take control is to pull away, to dislodge.
The word is detached from the phenomenon, becoming purified....a holy word.
Sacred being what is unsoiled by the earthly, the base, the primal = enlightened, made light, placed on a pedestal, on metal boots, for instance, as if floating above reality, detached/detaching from it.
The skin feels, but behind the metal it is numbed - the metal is an added padding, a thickness.
Sunlight does not burn it...it only heats its surfaces.

The word is its own definition, in the same way God was defined as the Creator of Himself, and of the world.
A solipsistic innuendo - the end of the causal chain.
A word is what is written, using words, in the dictionary. When used linguistically it refers only to the mental abstraction - abstraction being a form of detachment, simplification/generalization being the cutting away of dimensions.

Dictionary offer a general outline, just as the Bible does.
Both are taken literally, rather as representations, an art-form....just as the armor and the arks are taken as literal additions, extensions of the human embodying them.
The human becomes spiritualized, the behind the scenes, the masks, animating energy - the ghost in the machine, in the armor, the contrivance.

Behind the word, emotions.
The word refers back to human abstractions, or, when it dares, to human emotions. A hint at the primal.
But, now, the emotions are stripped of their worldly utilities, the reason they evolved.
They becomes expressions of the divine, which is always masked, armored, hidden, in the dark.

The noumenon comes to the forefront, as does the armor. The phenomenon, is hidden, distanced....placed into lethe, forgetfulness: covered, concealed.
The armor is human contrivance. It is the new apparent.

Armor was a reaction to the bow and arrow, the crossbow.
When anyone could fell a fighter from a distance, or massacre a group of formidable warriors by striking them with quantities of arrows from a safe distance, the armor became inevitable.

Arrows are metaphors for karma, directed by words.
Your fate, your reputation, your destiny, now determined by gossip, distant hidden voices whispering (shaping arrow heads, finding rocks), and flinging them to injure from a safe distance.

The armor protected the wearer from these words.
A karmic wall.
The metal shell was a detachment, a barrier, a discriminating possibility.
It kept the rabble out.

The warrior did not have to be a good fighter...because he was a walking talk; a Frankenstein, shuffling towards the other, untouched by arrows, by the masses throwing rocks from the shadows.
Like Frankenstein he was made up of many different parts, all connected artificially, creating a monstrosity.
The quality of the technique was judged by how well it emulated the human form, how it made the observer forget that there was an intervention artifice between the eye and the moving spirit.
Against words a linguistic defense; an iron clad rhetoric - rigid, detached, artistic but unaesthetic, anesthetic.

Two types of modern warfare emerges - dialectics.
One was used by the commoner, who found stones, or could artificially manufacture multiple arrow-heads to fling at the other from the safety of a detached distance, amplifying his weakness into a arrow-pointed force.  
The other used a more refined from of distancing: the outer shell, detaching himself from words, creating an alternative space within space/time.

Both compensate for a lack of artistry.
Both types of "fighters" compensate for an absence of fighting talent.
Both uses distance, when warrior approach and engage, using the weapon, the artifice, the word, as an extension of their arm: a surgical instrument." [Arms and Armour]

Quote :
"“Wilhelm Reich identified "armor" as the sum total of typical character attitudes, which an individual develops as a blocking against his emotional excitations, resulting in rigidity of the body, lack of emotional contact, "deadness". Functionally identical to muscular armor (chronic muscular spasms)..."

The elk has subtle antennae, roots branching into the nooks and corner of time, drawing replenishment and vigour from old memories;

Quote :
"Atavism is the tendency to revert to ancestral type. In biology, an atavism is an evolutionary throwback, such as traits reappearing which had disappeared generations before. Atavisms can occur in several ways. One way is when genes for previously existing phenotypical features are preserved in DNA, and these become expressed through a mutation that either knock out the overriding genes for the new traits or make the old traits override the new one. A number of traits can vary as a result of shortening of the fetal development of a trait (neoteny) or by prolongation of the same. In such a case, a shift in the time a trait is allowed to develop before it is fixed can bring forth an ancestral phenotype.
In the social sciences, atavism is a cultural tendency—for example, people in the modern era reverting to the ways of thinking and acting of a former time. The word atavism is derived from the Latin atavus. An atavus is a great-great-great-grandfather or, more generally, an ancestor.

Atavistic regression is a hypnosis-related concept introduced by the Australian scholar and psychiatrist Ainslie Meares.

As used by Meares, for example, his 1960 work A System of Medical Hypnosis, the term atavistic regression is used to denote the tendency to revert to ancestral type:

“The atavistic hypothesis requires… a regression from normal adult mental function at an intellectual, logical level, to an archaic level of mental function in which the process of suggestion determines the acceptance of ideas. This regression is considered to be the basic mechanism in the production of hypnosis.”
Meares held the view that when in hypnosis, the higher (more evolved) functions of the subject's brain were switched off, and the subject reverted to a far more archaic and far less advanced (in evolutionary terms) mental state; something which significantly altered the subjects' cognitive processing so that they readily accepted internally consistent, literal logic without any of the normal filters and verifications against the objective facts of the real world."

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"Respect thy body: it will again become thy parents." [Austin Spare]

"Retrogress to the point where knowledge ceases, in that law becomes its own spontaneity and its freedom." [Austin Spare]

"The I thinks, the Self doth." [Austin Spare]

"Procreation is with more things than women. ...Do I still need a loin-cloth for my passions?" [Austin Spare]

Quote :
"Considered the conscious part of the mind to be useless for this, believing that it only served to reinforce the separation between ourselves and that which we desire.
It has been argued that Spare's magic depended (at least in part) upon psychological repression. According to one author, Spare's magical rationale was as follows, "If the psyche represses certain impulses, desires, fears, and so on, and these then have the power to become so effective that they can mold or even determine entirely the entire conscious personality of a person right down to the most subtle detail, this means nothing more than the fact that through repression ("forgetting") many impulses, desires, etc. have the ability to create a reality to which they are denied access as long as they are either kept alive in the conscious mind or recalled into it. Under certain conditions, that which is repressed can become even more powerful than that which is held in the conscious mind." It was a logical conclusion to view the subconscious mind as the source of all magical power, which Spare soon did. In his opinion, a magical desire cannot become truly effective until it has become an organic part of the subconscious mind.
Spare also believed in what he called "atavistic resurgence", the idea that the human mind contains atavistic memories that have their origins in earlier species on the evolutionary ladder. In Spare's worldview, the "soul" was actually the continuing influence of "the ancestral animals" that humans had evolved from. For this reason, he believed in the intimate unity between humans and other species in the animal world; this was visually reflected in his art through the iconography of the horned humanoid figures. Although this "atavistic resurgence" was very different from orthodox Darwinism, Spare greatly admired the evolutionary biologist Charles Darwin..."

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Muhlmann described the Mask/Armour as the Extra-body forming Aura, intimidating the Other. This is all about Uruz and the formation of the metaphysical bone/organ memories. If Uruz is the abs. gross and phenomenal force, Algiz is the subtle and noumenal one;

Muhlmann wrote:
"Under the influence of stress, noradrenaline, adrenaline and cortisol secretion is increased. This has the following effect; cardiac and circulatory functions are intensified, metabolism, immunity and sexual activity however are weakened. In this way all the organism’s energy reserves are channelled into the skeletal muscles in order optimise their motor abilities. They are used for fight or flight. In addition neural areas in charge of rapid perception and fast reaction are also strengthened. Stress physiology is thus a cognitive process by which a perception is transformed into a flow of energy.

There are three possible results of the fight: dominance, subdominance and submission. The victor is ‘dominant’ his catecholamine and cortisol levels quickly reach their normal levels after stress action. Experiments have demonstrated that after repeated successful stress actions the base values of noradrenaline, adrenaline and cortisol are even lower than they were before the stress success series. This means that the animals have become healthier through the success series. The cardiac and circulatory complex is able to adapt as the low cortisol levels bring healthy sleep and increased immunity. Here we find a phenomenon which we can call the ‘samurai effect’. The successful combatant finds ever increasing inner peace. His fighting abilities create something like an aura. This aura can be perceived by opponents and can result in duels being decided on the strength of this aura and the opponent signalling ‘I surrender’.

This neuronal reinforcement by means of the repetition of activities can also be described as ‘body memory’ or ‘procedural’ memory. The ‘body memory’ becomes active when all bodily movements are automatic, e.g. when driving a car we don’t think about which foot operates which pedal or when playing the piano one does not think about what one’s fingers are doing and when soldiers doing their drill at the barracks don’t have to think about how to handle their weapons.

Enculturation means storage of cultural traits in the biological memory. It is possible for example to speak of the enculturation quotient of a riding a bicycle, driving a car, playing the piano, having a barbeque, eating spaghetti, playing football, tightrope walking, firing a machine gun and programing a computer.

The triggering of an emotion during a learning or perceptual process stimulates the so-called ‘episodic memory’. The episodic memory means that the individual not only remembers the object noticed but also the entire scene in which the object was noticed.

Institutionalised war is the most important cultural result of the MSC effect. It represents the cultural shaping of the separation of conflict and cooperation. The most radical manifestation of the externalisation of the conflict through internal population cooperation is the phenomenon of cultural preparedness to die.

It is closely linked to the system of emotional rule adjustment since cultural preparedness to die is regulated by the principle of ‘honor’ and the principle of functioning of honour differs only slightly from that of decorum.

If an MSC event always separates cooperation from conflict and must trigger off strong stress emotions in order to, by means a positive assessment, create a phase of relaxation and furthermore, if this relaxation is inevitably the result of separating cooperation from conflict and therefore is infused with cooperative behaviour in its entirety, then this complete MSC complex of stress, emotion, relaxation and cooperation is to a large extent memoactive. That means it is excellently suited as a enculturating trait which can be transmitted over many generations in the future. Enculturating traits are units of transmission. They are so to say the atoms of cultures." [Maximal Stress Cooperation Theory]

And what is Cultural Synchronization, but the gravity of maximal stress evened out by a shared experience of maintaining harmony by externalizing conflicts, the participation in a common memory - the Festival.


The Elk may not just be the upraised hands, but also the upraised horns and the terrestrial currents of the lightning rod sweeping across the earth; Pink Floyd's "The Piper at the Gates"... between conscious and the sub-conscious...

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Satyr wrote:
Those horns, like root stems exposed to the sun, needy, seeking, intrusion upwardly focused.

The upward signifying mind, as opposed to the downward body.

Does the hypnotist will the "victim’s" hypnosis?
No, he manipulates the willingness already present.

Does the grifter invent the other's desire?
Does the one selling place the need the product satisfies in the brain?
Does the faith healer heal?
Does the liar lie?
Does the hunter create the hunted?
Does the farmer construct domestication?
Does the magician conjure up forces that do not exist?

Madness is acting in disregard to the fact that the potential costs (risks) outweigh the potential benefits (pleasures).
In this regard Hannibal Lecter, as an artistic device, is either a representation of madness, or – this is the frightening part – a creature so superior that the costs are minimal.

In an age where words, mind, is still permitted – but for how long ? - hunting, killing, consuming, fucking, has been reduced down to "mere" words, and metaphors.
Even in this realm of innocuous verbal abuse, we sense something primal; something that may not be permitted to translate into something physical (real), but that it could, it may... maybe it should (the moral dilemma).

Modern man indulges in all sorts of substituted pleasures, to deal with that itch he cannot scratch... that he fears touching, because it is still fresh, still bleeding; he hungers for what he is told is forbidden, vile... uncivilized.
Then he denies this deep need, finding clever ways to sidestep them, and to cover them up with words.
He mocks them when they are presented to him rationally, knowing that if they were as bold as to express themselves freely he would be the first to run to the authorities for help – thusly making them a form of madness he can stand against, while he is seduced by the possibilities.

Behold the modern hypocrite!!!

The pop-cultural icons accomplish two things:

1- They ridicule, by reducing the idea to a caricature.

2- They limit, by connecting the idea to an image, an appearance.

In the first case, they make the idea marketable, playing on those denied internal hungers, and fears. T
They nurture the fears so as to discredit the seductive parts.

In the second, they restrict the idea to an iconography, an image. the real manifestation of this type will have to adhere to this popular image, if it is to be taken seriously.

Unjustified cynicism is, after all, a symptom of deep anxiety.

Seduction tries to hint at the other of his restriction, of his being trapped... it turns this helplessness into something attractive and re-sells it to him.
Hypnosis makes quiet inroads into the other by making them feel powerful...  the Dream-state is what N. felt was more richer than the waking life we live,, our untapped potential and all that we could not do in daylight, re-plays itself in dreams...
Seduction entices, Hypnosis suggests; it is quiet.
Seduction captiv-ates, Hypnosis intrigues.

Metaphorical activity fluctuates like the deer... its the quiet way of saying one thing and making inroads into the other with the other meaning...  hypnosis works on silent suggestibility. Our penetration is what makes us call the other mesmerizing like we were seized or overtaken in our 'sleep'...
Hannibal is mesmerizing because the pun, the gap in the double-meaning provides a respite, a distance from immediate and threatening danger... and you feel the fear and relaxing humour of the other meaning at the same time…
The Festival's relation with humour is seen via the 'gap' between the two horns, double entendre, false 'pit' where one falls inducing laughter, festive devouring and the wide-open mouth -

Quote :
"For a fuller understanding of Hannibal Lecter, we need to go to Freud’s writings on the relationship between jokes and the unconscious. Part of Lecter’s enormous appeal to audiences is his ability to make jokes, to pun and play with the victim/viewer. To one of his intended victims he says, playfully, “I’m giving serious consideration to eating your wife.” Eating is, of course, a metaphor for oral sex – a meaning not lost on Hannibal’s audiences. David Thompson suggests that Clarice Starling, the heroine of Silence of the Lambs, understood perfectly: “The rest of the world dreamed of cannibalism, but Foster’s eyes widened with the sudden vision of cunnilingus. No, not even the vision – the sensation”. What we are screened from is the image of Lecter and Clarice as a couple, making love, having oral sex." [B.Creed, Freud's Worst Nightmare: Dining with Lecter]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:37 am

Black Panther wrote:
It will be made manifest at one point.

I'll look forward to it…

Quote :
I am still 'pregnant', the different limbs I speak of will turn out to be part of the same child.

And will your child be born of your thigh or your temple? A son or a daughter?

In lore, it is Pallas that retrieves and saves the heart of the dismembered Dionysos for incubation in the thigh for rebirth.
Athena with the shield of the medusa, the "fixed stare/cold gaze" turning to stone.  
The principle of Isa/incubation when modern stoicism, cynicism has made the body brittle and armoured - like the scene in the Pirates of the Carribean where the crew almost become the part of the ship… how do you extract this gestating core essence without fragmenting it, as a whole number?

Isa:


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:38 am

Black Panther wrote:
I encountered the runes by asking nicely. I was the first one allowed to see this man ( whose last name means 'of the Wyrd'. ) in the process of rune drawing. It makes quite a few people uncomfortable to see the first method, the release of motoric memory. The rune painting begins in the second part.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:42 am

Black Panther wrote:
"Second. The inference that N. was merely filling the gaps and adding flesh to the beast that Xt. crucified is so crude."

Never meant to imply that. Primarily, Nietzsche is a prophet of the wild, but he understood himself to be a direct response to Christianity whenever he wrote about it. Now a 180 degree difference is - what?

In his capacity of a response to Christianity, which by no means is his full capacity, he is someone easer to associate with Jesus than with any of those who tried to imitate him. Like all great men, one comes to likeness easier by attacking than by following.


Satyr wrote:
Tactics evolve with the times, but remain true to the original strategy.

Nietzsche was a direct response to the strategy [priestly ressentiment in the jewish slave revolt], of which Pauline Xt. was merely a tactic.


Black Panther wrote:
In as far as Nietzsche has anything to do with Jesus, I doubt that Jesus would dislike the way he went about it.

Jesus appeared at the heights of power, N. appeared at the twilight and waning of power, and how he went abt. his philosophy is part of it. I cant say what a N. would be in the circumstances of the former.

Whether N.'s Antichrist is an exalted opposition of maximal stress at the cutting edge (<---> abs. repulsion) or domain/dominion/domineering square of cutting it Right at the heart of the matter (---><--- abs. resistance - core value), how one acts and conducts oneself when the energy waxes and wanes separates the noble from the ignoble.
How do you behave with excess power in your hands, and what do you teach when you are a low life marks a path.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:45 am

Black Panther wrote:
And even where N is the antithesis to JC, he stands 2000 years down the line of scientific work, which places him in a different paradigm of power as knowledge.

I agree;

Nietzsche wrote:
"To Princess Ariadne, My Beloved.

It is a mere prejudice that I am a human being. Yet I have often enough dwelled among human beings and I know the things human beings experience, from the lowest to the highest. Among the Hindus I was Buddha, in Greece Dionysus - —Alexander and Caesar were incarnations of me, as well as the poet of Shakespeare, Lord Bacon. Most recently I was Voltaire and Napoleon, perhaps also Richard Wagner ... However, I now come as Dionysus victorious, who will prepare a great festival on Earth ... Not as though I had much time ... The heavens rejoice to see me here ... I also hung on the cross .." [Letter to Cosima Wagner, Turin, Jan. 3, 1889]

The last remark could also be a pun on Odysseus [N. - "we seafarers, we argonauts"] who bound himself to the staff of the ship which paved the way for 'Christianizing Homer':

Quote :
"Andrew's Cross and Odysseus' Oar.

"According to GE 20,
The following night the blessed apostle saw a vision which he narrated to the other brethren:

"My good friends, listen to my dream. I saw a great mountain raised on high with nothing earthly on it, and it so radiated with light that it seemed to illumine the world. And there,
standing with me, were my beloved brothers, the apostles Peter and John. Extending his hand to the apostle Peter, John raised him to the mountain's summit, turned, and asked me to ascend after Peter saying,
'Andrew, you will drink Peter's cup.' With his hands outstretched he said, 'Come to me and stretch out your hands to join my hands, and let your head touch mine.' When I did so, I found myself shorter than John. 'Would you like to know,' he then asked, 'to what this symbol you see refers, or who it is who speaks with you?'
"'I long to know these things,' I said.
'"I am the word of the cross,' he said, 'on which you soon will hang for the name of the one you proclaim.' He also told me many other things about which I can say nothing now, but which will become apparent when I approach this sacrifice."

This story obviously owes a great deal to the transfiguration of Jesus, but it also relies on Odysseus's speech to the Phaeacians about his visit with Tiresias in the netherworld, where the blind savant told him how he was to die:

"Take a well-shaped oar and go until you reach men who do not know the sea and who eat food that is not mixed with salt: they know neither of red-cheeked ships nor of well-shaped oars, which are wings of ships.
I'll tell you a very clear sign , and you won't miss it: when you come across another man on the road who says that you have a chaff-wrecker on your shining shoulder, then plant the well-shaped oar in the earth and perform a fine sacrifice to lord Poseidon....
A very gentle death will come to you away from the sea and slay you in a comfortable old age. And the people aroundyou will be prosperous.
This is the truth that I tell you."

Behind this passage is a folktale told among sailors to this very day, according to which a sailor, weary of rowing and the dangers of the sea, carries an oar inland until someone mistakes it for a board or a farm implement. There the sailor plants his oar, or builds a house, or settles down to a life of ease. The parable is found here and there in old sea
stories, where shipwrecked persons narrate it to their companions as a consolation, and tormented and discouraged seafolk swear to one another to follow its example if they should ever touch foot again on
English soil. The point of these tales of the planted oar is to contrast the dangers and hardships of the sea or the caprices of fishing with the safety and comforts of terra firma. Homer apparently knew this same tradition. At the beginning of the nekyia, the soul of Elpenor asks Odysseus to return to Circe's island to bury his body under a planted oar.

In order to understand the relationship of this episode to The Acts of Andrew one must jump ahead to the Passion, where the apostle preaches on his way to the edge of the sea, where he will die. He ends his speech with these words:

This is the end of my speech, for I think that while we were speaking, we arrived at the designated place. The planted cross is a sign to me designating the spot" (Passion S3).

Odysseus would know where to plant his oar because of the sign of the ignorant landlubber. The "planted cross" itself serves Andrew as a sign presumably because on the radiant mountain John had told him about it in GE 20:
"He also told me many other things . . . which will become apparent when I approach this sacrifice."

The participle , 'planted', comes from the same Greek verb Tiresias used when he commanded Odysseus to plant his oar. These correspondences can hardlybe accidental.
In light of the tradition of the planted oar one might expect Andrew's seaside cross to represent relief from the dangers and weariness of life. This is precisely Andrew's own interpretation in his address to the cross:

He left everyone, approached the cross, and spoke to it out loud:
"Greetings, O cross! Greetings indeed! I know well that, though you have been weary for a long time, you too at last are at rest , planted and awaiting me. I come to you, whom I have comprehended. I recognize your secret for which you were planted . So then ... receive me, I who have been weary
for so long." (Passion 54)

Andrew recognized the secret or mystery of the cross from its having been "planted" in the earth to symbolize its rest from labor. Nowhere else in early Christian literature does one find an exhausted cross; exhaustion better befits an oar. The weariness of rowing was proverbial in the ancient world, and often was expressed with cognates of the word used of the cross in The Acts of Andrew, 'to weary'. For example, Odysseus collapses in weariness after rowing for ten days. Likewise The Iliad speaks of sailors who "have grown weary of beating the sea with polished oars of fir, and with weariness are their limbs for done." The weariness of the cross for such a long time represents the apostle's own weariness at the end of life's long voyage. Both of them will rest at last. According to Andrew's Passion, the cross is also Andrew's mast for speeding him effortlessly homeward
to heaven on his true nostos. It would therefore seem reasonable to assume that among the "many other things" that John told Andrew on the mountain in GE 20 was the meaning of the planted cross at the edge of the sea. It symbolized the weariness of life and the rest that death offers." [Dennis MacDonald, Christianizing Homer]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:04 pm

Closing the gap is a Victory.

Victory and the Crown of Glory.

- N.'s wedding song with the ring of eternity has to do with telos, and perhaps why in the old pagan, esp. Anglo-Germanic custom, the bride was gifted a sword:


Quote :
"An attempt has been made to explain the Telos which means 'end' as the' place where one makes a half-turn in the race or in ploughing' and so the 'end, limit'. This root notion of 'turning round' Telos meant 'circling' or 'circle' , which imply the ' circle of the year', perhaps also in Homer's 'circle-bearing year' - so complete year. Thus, too, when Hesiod speaks it will mean not the 'perfect river' or the 'river in which all others end' but the 'circling river'.

If Telos thus meant 'circle', 'band', we can also explain its use to designate a body of men; which Telos has been treated as a distinct word related to Sanscrit kula-m. We may instead compare our use of 'band', 'circle', 'ring', 'knot', etc., German Bund. That an assembly of men was conceived in some such way is shown by Homer's expression for its breaking up; it is ' loosed'. The early Greeks, when they assembled, did form into a 'circle'. And a circle appears to have been the ritually desirable form for a gathering.

If it thus meant 'circle', Telos when used of a phase of fortune, while conceived thus visually as a circle or band about a man, yet represented a portion of time and was experienced as a process or an event by the person upon whom it was placed. It was apparently, like the fate spun; the different 'bands' or ' circles' were different portions of life and so of time. The band, circle, itself naturally symbolic of completeness and continuity, would represent the complete phase of fortune. Just as 'victory', 'liberty', and the various other phases of fortune were bands fastened upon men by god, so the band, the 'crown' or 'circle' that was put upon the head of the victor in the games, etc., was conceived by Pindar and Simonides as itself the 'deed' or 'victory'. But Pindar seems to speak of this crown as Telos.

The Telos was not given to the god nor was it, as usually explained, a 'making perfect' of the initiate. It was analogous to the Telos of marriage. It was a new state, a new fate received, embodied in a band or wrapping fastened around or covering the recipient. In fact in the classical period the person married and the person initiated alike received such a band or wrapping, and it should according to our earlier argument represent and confer the new state, a new fate. In Homer the maiden is distinguished by a particular form of band, which is 'loosed' at marriage, and on her wedding day Andromache received another band, a 'head-band' from the goddess of love herself, Aphrodite, who carried her peculiar properties about in the form of a band, and passed them on to others in that form. Among the Romans a maiden was distinguished by one form of 'fillet' (vitta), the bride or married woman by another. To such bands there is no lack of parallels.
These passages indicate how Telos could come to be interpreted and mean 'fulfilment', 'completion', and so 'end'. The circle, itself naturally expressive of completeness, represented a process.

In English itself 'crown' has developed the meaning 'fulfilment, completion, perfection, end' and 'The end crowns all', finis coronat opus. If we turn to Chapman's translation of the Iliad it is striking to find him time and again rendering a passage with Telos or Telein by 'crown', though thinking that Telos itself means 'end'.

Finally, Telos 'payment' is a quite different word from Telos, 'end', and formed from a different root. It is thus supposed to have meant originally 'what was endured' and so 'toll', 'tax'. But there is no hint of such a word or meaning in the earliest literature and the supposition is unnecessary. A debt was conceived as a bond, which might help this use of Telos. But there is another possibility. For Pindar the victor's crown was the Telos of his victory, its embodiment, fulfilment. In both cases it is an offering to the god, its fulfilment, actual payment. From Homer onwards it was customary in the hour of trial to vow something, to promise to the god, if he would help to victory, the arms or other spoils of the enemy and after victory to fulfil the promise, i.e. to pay." [Onians, The Origins of European Thought]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:08 pm

Fortune: Knots and Riddles.

Quote :
"The casting of the spool or shuttle through the opening between the warp-threads is still known as a 'shot', a single woof-thread thus cast as a 'shoot' (cf. German Schussfaden), and 'shuttle' itself derives from the same verb. The opening, the passage through which archers sought to shoot, were originally the same. The use in weaving will better explain the sense 'critical time', 'opportunity'; for there the opening in the warp lasts only a limited time, and the 'shot' must be made while it is open. The belief in the weaving of fate with the length of the warp-threads representing length of time may have helped this use of 'Kouros'. In the Agamemnon Aeschylus makes his chorus, foreboding, say of itself (the heart)... 'unwind off the spool', as was done with the woof-thread in weaving.

Our use of 'opening' apart, 'opportunity' appears to have been expressed in English by something like the Greek use of 'Kouros'. A 'nick' means a slot or hollow in anything. It was used thus: 'There are some nicks in time which whosoever finds may promise to himself success.'
'Most fit opportunity—her grace comes just in the nick.'
'He came in the nick of opportunity to beg for grace.'

The 'nick' also is spoken of as if it were aimed at:
'Schol. "Does the sea stagger ye?"
Mast. "Now ye have hit the nick."

I would compare also the German einschlagen, woof, 'to strike in', ' to hit the mark', and the adjective einschldgig, 'appropriate'.

Reference to an opening, passage through, appears to explain also the Latin opportunus, opportunitas. The root meaning of porta, portus (angiportus) is 'entrance', 'passage through'. Opportunus would thus describe what offers an opening, or what is in front of an opening ready to go through. The antithesis is importunus, describing that which is 'in (i.e. blocking) the opening' or 'without (i.e. not affording) an opening'.
Here too, perhaps, is the origin of the association of the goddess of fortune in Rome's earliest days with a building called porta fenestella, apparently a porta or opening above ground level (as a window is), a symbol or the embodiment of a religious idea rather than for use, a divine or universal 'opening'. Roman tradition explained it as the opening through which Fortune passed, more particularly for Servius Tullius. In speech fenestra was used symbolically in the sense of 'opening', 'opportunity', e.g. quantam fenestram ad nequitiam patefeceris. Tropos, cognate with porta, portus, etc., meant 'passage, way, means'.
Akin is also the use of locus, 'room, space', in the sense of 'opportunity', e.g. dare locum with a genitive 'to give room for', so 'opportunity for', something.

She who comes to bind unswervingly, inflexibly, or who plies thus the woof about the warp-threads, weaving the pattern in the tapestry of fate, would be well named Atropos. It is this merciless course of the shuttle which is stressed for the weaving of the Moirai.

The 'Sphinx' of Theban legend can also now perhaps be better understood. Sheis usually explained as the' Throttler', 'Choker', but was rather, I suggest, the 'Tight-binder', the meaning naturally indicated and fitting, as we see, her character of death-demon. It fits also the possibly later version of her as singing deadly riddles.
With somewhat similar thought the Greeks conceived of a riddle or trap of words difficult to deal with as a woven rush-basket (cf. Latin scirpus, nodus, solvere).

By the thought traced that a phase of fortune was such a band and might be put about one in that form we can now explain the human custom of binding, wreathing the head with a fillet, wreath, or crown. Thus, of a victor in the games Simonides says: 'Who of the present generation hath in contest of the neighbouring folk bound upon himself so many victories with leaves of myrtle or wreaths of roses?' and of another Pindar says: 'One swift day set three glorious deeds about his hair' and, in life itself, he who receives good fortune receives a crown:
We can thus also better understand a number ofother passages. In epitaphs Simonides says: ' This is the grave of that Adeimantos through whose counsel Greece put around her (head) the crown of freedom', and striving to put around Greece freedom (i.e. the band or crown that is freedom) we lie'

The kingship is a band put about a person, who thus becomes king. In fact 'kingship' was used of this physical band; it designated the diadem. So we have the origin of the royal crown and of the importance of 'coronation'. The putting of a crown elsewhere, e.g. upon a ship or a housedoor, can also now be understood as intended to confer or embody a happy fate." [Onians, The Origins of European Thought]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:21 pm

Zoot Allures wrote:
Quote :
I'll grant you all that sounds desperately pointless. I have no idea what I can help you with or why you post these .... ruminations...(fears? beliefs?) in this thread.

On the contrary, I think what is desperately pointless is the study of this kind of material. What I explained earlier (as my own beliefs) you can consider the practical ends of this kind of metaphysical theorizing. Narrowing it down; mortality and annihilation at death, transmigration of the self-same soul after physical death to a final destination (or state), transmigration of the self-same soul to a next stage in a series without any final destination, or an eventual repetition of the self-same soul.

Now in any of these cases, at no given point would any experience be qualitatively different than any other... you are just 'being' again.

Wittgenstein wrote:
Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.

Be that as it may, whatever you choose to believe is 'true' or 'useful' to you in this process of existing could in fact be false and useless, and you would not know the difference. On the other hand, if you insist on being a Builder you must understand that you can NEVER tell the people what I have explained to you, and it will be difficult for you to continue on knowing it's all silly nonsense.. some nights you will want to commit all your work to the flames a la Hume, and there will be moments when you feel you cannot tell the noble lie any longer. But this is a burden a builder must bear ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]).



Since nothing matters, and death is the great equalizer, Sly's own critique is as good as nothing…
Why would knowing if its possible to know the difference matter?

Is it only curiosity that keeps him going  when he could just arbitrarily off himself, or preach that sort of thing to others? Isn't it a way, or is there a right way?

Heisman wrote:
"If I had no biases I would be dead, rather that sitting here right now, writing about them. To approach the most biasless state of death is to pursue a course of rational selfdestruction through a rigorous elimination of biases towards life. Yet to be value neutral would be to not be biased towards objectivity over subjectivity or vice versa. While objectivity is not inherently self-justified as an end in itself, objectivity could be a means. Objectivity could be a means, for example, of rational self-destruction." [Heisman, Suicide Note]

Heisman wrote:
"How far would one be willing to go in pursuit of scientific objectivity? Objectivity and survival are least compatible when objectivity becomes a means of life, subordinate to life — as opposed to life subordinated to objectivity. If the greatest objectivity implicates confronting the most subjective biases, this implicates confronting those truths that most conflict with the subjective will to live. By simply changing my values from life values to death values, and setting my trajectory for rational biological self-destruction, I am able to liberate myself from many of the biases that dominate the horizons of most people’s lives. By valuing certain scientific observations because they are destructive to my life, I am removing self-preservation factors that hinder objectivity. This is how I am in a position to hypothesize my own death.

So if objectivity is not justified as end, then objectivity can be a means of rational self-destruction through the overcoming of the bias towards life. Rational self-destruction through the overcoming of the bias towards life, in turn, can be a means of achieving objectivity. And this means: To will death as a means of willing truth and to will truth as a means of willing death." [Suicide Note]

Heisman wrote:
"Synthetic processes of life work in paradoxical relationship to analytic processes because natural selection effectually “analyzed” or “chose” certain synthetic processes over others. This implies that the most complex syntheses might incorporate an analytic blind spot related the preference of some synthetic organizations over others.

A living thing cannot incorporate all physical possibilities into itself if it is to remain alive. Life, on some level, is an organization synthesis that contradicts, overcomes, or outsynthesizes the physical probabilities of its immediate environment that would otherwise lead to death. Just as the life processes of an individual bacteria cell could not exist if its cell walls were opened to all the physical possibilities of its outside environment..." [Heisman, Suicide Note]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:26 pm

From a cost/benefit perspective the one who has the least to gain, from the time after his death, will have the least interest in anything deeper than the thickness of his skin during the period of his lifetime.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:28 pm

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Planted in the air, the beast desires to plant himself in the earth.

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It's hard...to tell the horny from the horned.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:38 pm

'Lies' - like mathematics, logic and such approximations help our self-preservation.

For those who see man apart from nature, differentiating oneself would be experienced as a lie.
For those who see man as part of nature, differentiating oneself would be experienced as growth, as the expression of life differetntiating itself into higher forms.

Some are so ashamed of being born human, they find man shaping his environment, the Apollonian illusion of creating borders, the shape-forming power in man that has made him the most rich and beautiful creature to exist in the universe,,, a "sin".

In the case of those turkeys like cAnus, its a 'sin', because an original undifferentiated edenic state of harmony as abs. truth is first presumed… and so man shaping his environment is a 'fall' from grace, a hubris, etc.

Without lies, we would be dead. And this is the oldest battle in the world, the oldest conflict in the world. How much truth can you endure?

Nietzsche wrote:
""Man seeks "the truth": a world that is not self-contradictory, not deceptive, does not change, a true world-a world in which one does not suffer; contradiction, deception, change--causes of suffering!

Contempt, hatred for all that perishes, changes, varieswhence comes this valuation of that which remains constant? Obviously, the will to truth is here merely the desire for a world of the constant.

Happiness can be guaranteed only by being; change and happiness exclude one another. The highest desire therefore contemplates unity with what has being. This is the formula for: the road to the highest happiness.

The real primum mobile is disbelief in becoming, mistrust of becoming, the low valuation of all that becomes-

What kind of man reflects in this way? An unproductive, suffering kind, a kind weary of life. If we imagine the opposite kind of man, he would not need to believe in what has being; more, he would despise it as dead, tedious, indifferent- to what extent one can endure to live in a meaningless world because one organizes a small portion of it oneself." [WTP, 585]

There is no truth apart from the whole; we are always implicated, always will be "erroneous", "lying" in trying to form judgements on the whole while being part of it...

That does not mean no truth is ever possible; degrees of it are, as Satyr remarked somewhere, the world in relation to our consciousness doesn't change at the rate we are not able to "fix some portion of it'.
Superior and inferior have comparative amoral objectivity.

To deny in man - his cunning, his artistic impulse, his shape-forming organizing lust, is to deny his very evolution, his Human-ity beyond good/evil.

Man is part of that very nature, and he is an environment himself, the on-going inter-activity of life's self-organizing.

Nietzsche wrote:
""Will to truth"--as the impotence of the will to create." [WTP, 585]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:39 pm

@SaTyr,

Those images are so lovely.

And the thoughts behind them.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:34 am

A hedonist is someone who needs to be assured of some pleasure, some benefit at some end point.

Its the sufficient condition to not resort to the level of animals and subhumans.

If my life after death is assured no meaning, I will live like the dogs and dwarves… since nothing matters and integrity is just a fancy of the human vanity.

Either there is a god before me assuring me of the integrity of all equally [cAnus], or there is an intelligence after me assuring there is a benefit to acting in such and such way [sLy].

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:33 pm

Satyr wrote:
Magic is either rooted in world/nature/past, or it is rooted in human psyche, which is a product of world/nature/past.
Man is the proxy towards world, for the magi.

The motive is what is important.
A witch/warlock interested in delving into the secret of nature, to find there useful patterns, will suffer the costs of this honesty, and her words will be laconic and profound.
The one motivated by a need to be seen, appreciated, loved, to hold power over men, will have no problem conjuring up magical ointments, spells, words of shallow depth to impress and to mesmerize and to affect and infect.

His magic only roots itself in the shallow, the human manifestation of the natural, the past, which goes further back than the emergence of humans.
His "potency" and his biggest flaw/weakness will be his desire, the need to have an effect, to leave a mark, to be recalled.
His superficiality makes him prone to experimentation, to going form one school to the other, from white magic to black, to red, to green, and back again; he substitutes quality, with quantities, offering a kaleidoscope that mesmerizes and leaves the immature mind in awe.
Such a witch will feel no shame.
Will shift from hiding, to exposing details, in an effort to throw others off his track.
Being shameless, and only hiding his inferiority, he will have no qualms and no inhibitions, just as long as there is another, preferably many, to appreciate, his performance.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Lyssa
Har Har Harr
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:33 pm

Grace…

Something Satyr, Black Panther and Sly can agree…



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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Jarno

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:21 pm

I made an interesting "discovery" today, but I'm sure many of you knew this.

I just today all the sudden got an idea that I want to decorate my wall with a "theatre mask" which I remember seeing in many places, but not really knowing what it was called like this:

I tried to find a picture with a really bitter expression
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Then I accidently found out what these masks are called and they apparently are called "Janus masks", then I noticed that Janus was a god with two faces [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Black Panther

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:53 pm

I am honored to be asked this question Lyssa. I hope I will have twins, then. I could not live with a child that isnt Dionysian, but the way Nietzsche sees Dionysos, as the philosopher, a cranial birth is a fitting image nonetheless. The splitting headache from which the future s born.

The 'politics' Im experimenting with is going better than I thought. It is only an ethical form, a way of defeating some elements of cowardice, neutralizing some peoples influences.  And increasing that of others. It is slow grinding but I laugh hard often.

Satyrs insight about investment rung true. Great images indeed, the thread is full of quite astounding artworks.
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