Know Thyself

Nothing in Excess
 
HomePortalFAQMemberlistSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 The meta-physics of weight lifting.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
There Will Be Blood

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 854
Join date : 2013-09-08
Location : Taiwan

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:25 pm

This is the 21st century. The mind is the only weapon of significance. Maybe you should sharpen it. It starts with restructuring thought patterns and the ego. Adaption is the name of the game, so what is your strategy? Living in the past, that's why you are nihilistic.

The movie 300 is a display of post-modern nihilistic angst.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Join a medieval live action role-playing game, or watch this movie and quit your childish ways. It's a cure, rather than an escape, for your illness.

Why So Serious?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
apaosha
Daeva
avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 1713
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 31
Location : Ireland

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:49 pm

One should also note that a display of masculine virility may also produce a show of ressentiment in inferior males.
Vanity becomes homoeroticism, strength becomes overcompensation.... and such.

Envy is overturned by recasting virtues as flaws. The object must be diminished in one's eyes in order for one to cope; one is then not as small in comparison.

Know Thyself.

_________________
"I do not exhort you to work but to battle; I do not exhort you to peace but to victory. May your work be a battle; may your peace be a victory." -TSZ
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://knowthyself.forumotion.net
There Will Be Blood

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 854
Join date : 2013-09-08
Location : Taiwan

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:03 am

The bully only attacks those he senses weakness in. If you own it, then the sharks never come to eat.

Lets put a smile on that face.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
perpetualburn

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 949
Join date : 2013-01-04
Location : MA

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:07 pm

Lyssa wrote:

Asceticism at its core is basically the production and Harnessing of heat, fervour.

Its about becoming your own self-sufficient source of energy, like the sun. In I.E. theology, the sun is regarded as the greatest ascetic producing its own heat, and as a by-the-way bringing life to something [an earth] in the process.

What is 'body'-building when the senses don't sharpen and emotions aren't disciplined and the spirit doesn't disengage with the mundane and tend to simplification, spontaneity, simultaneously with physical effort? It becomes body-production.

What is 'body-building' when you have not built your ear-muscles along-with the rest?

His shortcuts like doing drugs to feeling good or building body is justified with some half-baked reading of Nietzsche saying, "good is all that increases the feeling of power"... That would justify any kind of degenerate lifestyle. To a rapist, good is....  ?

He's more concerned in wanting to Appear intimidating and strong and masculine.

The image of strength is no substitute for strength.

The feeling and euphoria of power is no substitute for power.
What is bodybuilding when you have "built your ear-muscles along-with the rest?"

Quote :
From what I've inferred of Ephemeron,, body-building ought to be an activity working with/against nature, the natural process of interacting with nature in its many forms, mundane as they maybe, yet, bonding with the natural. Hence you have the Asians relating fitness to carrying wood or water to irrigate their fields... it gets woven into a whole ecology; as opposed to the gym where the body is built but the scope flowing out of this labour is restricted to personal form, endurance, etc.

To some people a 'body' doesn't stop at the tip of their five fingers; the body exceeds out "as" bigger ecologies and shaping those ecologies too

I don't believe this.  Bodybuilding can help keep that internal fire burning and thus the expansion of your influence into other areas... Just because the laborer or Asian is working with "natural" materials doesn't necessarily imply a greater "bonding" with the world, or a life that is any more "natural" either... A bodybuilder who doesn't fit into that indulgent category, develops a certain presence...The world has become more sophisticated so should the means of bonding.  The activity of fitness and our effective spiritual descriptions should keep pace with technology.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lyssa
Har Har Harr
avatar

Gender : Female Posts : 9035
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : The Cockpit

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:15 pm

perpetualburn wrote:

What is bodybuilding when you have "built your ear-muscles along-with the rest?"
I was addressing Primal; I believe he lacks focus and his attention span is low.

Quote :

Quote :
From what I've inferred of Ephemeron,, body-building ought to be an activity working with/against nature, the natural process of interacting with nature in its many forms, mundane as they maybe, yet, bonding with the natural. Hence you have the Asians relating fitness to carrying wood or water to irrigate their fields... it gets woven into a whole ecology; as opposed to the gym where the body is built but the scope flowing out of this labour is restricted to personal form, endurance, etc.

To some people a 'body' doesn't stop at the tip of their five fingers; the body exceeds out "as" bigger ecologies and shaping those ecologies too
I don't believe this.  Bodybuilding can help keep that internal fire burning and thus the expansion of your influence into other areas... Just because the laborer or Asian is working with "natural" materials doesn't necessarily imply a greater "bonding" with the world, or a life that is any more "natural" either... A bodybuilder who doesn't fit into that indulgent category, develops a certain presence...The world has become more sophisticated so should the means of bonding.  The activity of fitness and our effective spiritual descriptions should keep pace with technology.
I already stated I was offering the Dionysian perspective on this.
I refer you to the second part of this essay on the difference between
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
, applying the same to the body.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


Last edited by Lyssa on Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:19 pm

Perpetualburn wrote: " I don't believe this.  Bodybuilding can help keep that internal fire burning and thus the expansion of your influence into other areas... Just because the laborer or Asian is working with "natural" materials doesn't necessarily imply a greater "bonding" with the world, or a life that is any more "natural" either... A bodybuilder who doesn't fit into that indulgent category, develops a certain presence...The world has become more sophisticated so should the means of bonding.  The activity of fitness and our effective spiritual descriptions should keep pace with technology."

You got it, man.

He ( the guy in the video below ) shares a similar view to how I view weight-lifting. Pay attention especially toward the latter part of the video if you do watch.



Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:42 pm

Primal's theme song




That's right, I'm jumping on the bandwagon....Just kidding. Your contributions to this forum is much appreciated Primal. However, blood has a fair point.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:46 pm

Ha! Very good, probath. That made me smile Smile
Back to top Go down
Slaughtz



Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 1519
Join date : 2012-04-28
Age : 27
Location : Brink

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:10 pm

I typically engage in exercise due to a restlessness/burning that I cannot focus. This same energy would likely be satiated by the cooling of success in intellectual competition - the dominance and steering of leaked passions by other human beings for the benefit of oneself - i.e. sexuality.

-off topic-
Brings up an interesting idea to me - that sexual conquest became less of a focus for human beings as the quality and necessity for nurture increased. While the base desire is still sexual, having mass amounts of children was evolved out of the psyche in exchange for sport. Improving oneself became a way to channel sexual energy that would otherwise go towards reproduction - that way one didn't find themselves with a mass of children they could not care or provide for, and instead focused on aggregating their life blood into one or two children. That, or it's religion's/patriarchy's/paternalism's fault that we do not fuck like rabbits.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ephemeron

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 37
Join date : 2012-09-22
Location : down here

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:38 am

Primal Rage wrote:


What motivates me?

Deep seated, unconscious rage. Before I perform a set of heavy singles on the deadlift, squat, and overhead press, I perform a ritual. I begin by pacing back and forth like a lion in a cage. As I do this, I focus intensely and start growling like a wild animal. I snarl and stare at the barbell - focusing my energies on the overcoming that is to come. I summon dark memories from my childhood, experiences of being bullied, misunderstood, abused, etc. I tap into my primal rage ( hence my username ). I walk up to the barbell and grip it tightly, and then in a burst of explosive rage and power, I press the barbell over my head vehemently. It takes all the energy in my being to overcome the force. I conquer it, staring into the mirror with the barbell over my head and a fierce look in my eyes. Victory! Power! Glory! It is one of the best highs ever.

After the domination of the barbell, the feeling of euphoric rage stays with me for about 5 minutes. It is a very emotionally overwhelming experience; essentially a divine experience. I feel cosmic power in my arms and fists. I want more! I want to exert more force and power!
I did not imagine or conceive of a way to discredit you, you did so yourself.  Look above, you have not "driven your enemies before you"  you have not "heard the lament of their women" as you "crush them beneath your heel".  See what you yourself have written, your anger, your hatred for your enemies, your memories of childhood experiences of being bullied, your rejection of the world today, these you admit are your real drives.  Yet this is not really the solution, lifting weights and punching a heavy bag is only a tame way to unleash your aggression, to let off steam, bread and circuses.  As a means to fight it is relevant only so long as your opponents are "civil" and do not fight dirty.  It is good for a "fight club" but this too is a surrogate activity.  If I have any impression on you, if my criticism is of any help is to say this:  Abandon the surrogate for the actual.  To say "I prefer the wolf to the dog, the dog that bites and growls at me to the dog that cowers and hides, the enemy to the friend, the conflict to the peace,  and all that is truly resistance and acts naturally against my striving.  Resistance is a means to propulsion, to acceleration, the blood cell has velocity because it is in a vein.  I am the energy trapped inside a conduit, and the greater the resistance the greater my rate of travel, velocity is power, power is flow, flow is conductivity, and direction is the means to the end and that end is activity, unlimited and unceasing.

[
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Anfang

avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 34
Location : CET

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:48 am

Slaughtz wrote:
...that way one didn't find themselves with a mass of children they could not care or provide for, and instead focused on aggregating their life blood into one or two children.
Contraceptives is why we have so few children.
People have a desire to fuck, that's a strong developed drive. Then babies just happen and then we have a drive to raise and protect and support those children. The human mind doesn't have a strong drive to think about getting babies for the abstracted goal of passing on one's genes. People feel that something is missing and they can intellectually try to connect the dots but it's not a strong drive.

This is the age of disconnect between the intellectual and the base. And so, the strategy is to swallow society's new blueprint of how to do things or someone has to come up with their own plan and engineer/reprogram themselves. Both are still disconnected at a fundamental basis.


Last edited by Anfang on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
There Will Be Blood

avatar

Gender : Male Posts : 854
Join date : 2013-09-08
Location : Taiwan

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:03 am

K-type vs R-type reproductive strategies. The more intelligent and responsible people are picking up the slack for all the R-type fuck ups. Just as the bad guys are wasting all up the cheap credit, dooming us all into oblivion. Silver lining is that the K-type thrives under times of scarcity. A Mad Max scenario is gonna be fun.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Slaughtz



Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 1519
Join date : 2012-04-28
Age : 27
Location : Brink

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:06 am

Anfang wrote:
The human mind doesn't have a strong drive to think about getting babies for the abstracted goal of passing on one's genes.
I was talking about a subconscious, evolved disposition - not a conscious decision. Though you may be right about the trend rather being an increase in the drive/biological perception of importance in raising the progeny you already have. Still, it's fair enough to say that contraception and culture is the reason. I didn't really look into the birth rates in history and what correlations there were with other conditions (economic, etc.) I simply observed the trend that Caucasians tend to be more reserved about bearing children in the USA than others.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Anfang

avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 34
Location : CET

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:30 am

There will be Blood wrote:
K-type vs R-type reproductive strategies.
The R-type doesn't plan ahead much. Yep, that type thrives in an abundance environment. The K-type is more worried about stockpiling for the hard winter. In modern times K-type and R-type are forced to live under the same law and share their resources. The R-type is exploiting that advantage to the best of his abilities.

Long lasting relations is a strength of the K-type, not only in romantic area but also in the economic and social sphere. But we have become very flexible and mobile in our arrangements. In that scenario pretending is a very powerful tool.

Let's take the PUA community. They suggest - have an abundance mentality; fake it until you make it. The abundance mentality is right there with the R-type environment and the fake it until you make it can be interpreted in various ways. It's true that we can change our focus, that we have a capability to adapt to the environment and that process requires discipline - Repeated actions being one of the tools we can use.

Yet it also makes people into pretenders for the most part - to promise the female some larger than life experience. And nobody will look behind the curtain and see the weaknesses because that takes time.... and when time is up, the R-type will have moved on to greener pastures which is easy, even incentivized today.

The K-type has a problem with group distinction today. He has an emotional drive to bond within his own group, to be trusting and save his energy of distrust and critical inquiry for the members outside the group. Today he's being told that all of humanity is in his group and that makes him more blind than the average member of the R-tribe whose natural inclinations are closer to view people as a bunch of baby sea-turtles who are all trying to crawl to the ocean while most of them won't make it. Each is on his own.
If the K-type is to survive then he must begin to form his own groups and the hierarchies that go along with it.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Anfang

avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 34
Location : CET

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:08 pm

Slaughtz wrote:
I simply observed the trend that Caucasians tend to be more reserved about bearing children in the USA than others.
This may sound strange but in a way I think that some of the 'minorities' in the US are better suited for modern life as it is now.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:39 pm

Some advice to no one in particular: I've been squatting for almost 2 years, but only recently did it finally 'click' and my squat shot up from 180x5 to 250x7. I recommend doing bodyweight squats until your quads are jelly and then you'll HAVE TO do them correctly, then it'll 'click' and you'll be a squatting champ.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Same with deadlifts. Just put two 45s on there and do as many as you can with good form (as far as you know). Then, once you think you can't do anymore, something will 'click' and you'll be doing more in truly good form.

I wish I did this when i started lifting.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:17 pm

Ephemeron wrote: " I did not imagine or conceive of a way to discredit you, you did so yourself.  Look above, you have not "driven your enemies before you"  you have not "heard the lament of their women" as you "crush them beneath your heel".  See what you yourself have written, your anger, your hatred for your enemies, your memories of childhood experiences of being bullied, your rejection of the world today, these you admit are your real drives.  Yet this is not really the solution, lifting weights and punching a heavy bag is only a tame way to unleash your aggression, to let off steam, bread and circuses.  As a means to fight it is relevant only so long as your opponents are "civil" and do not fight dirty.  It is good for a "fight club" but this too is a surrogate activity.  If I have any impression on you, if my criticism is of any help is to say this:  Abandon the surrogate for the actual.  To say "I prefer the wolf to the dog, the dog that bites and growls at me to the dog that cowers and hides, the enemy to the friend, the conflict to the peace,  and all that is truly resistance and acts naturally against my striving.  Resistance is a means to propulsion, to acceleration, the blood cell has velocity because it is in a vein.  I am the energy trapped inside a conduit, and the greater the resistance the greater my rate of travel, velocity is power, power is flow, flow is conductivity, and direction is the means to the end and that end is activity, unlimited and unceasing."



I see what you are getting at, and I agree for the most part. But it should be noted that it isn't exactly the easiest thing for a man to be a man in modernity. Technologies have made it increasingly more difficult for man to unleash his savage nature. I do plan to " Abandon the surrogate for the actual" ( if you catch my drift ) but I will still weight-lift to increase my virility.



To Laconphile, I started out with a  5X5 training system ( 5 sets of 5 reps ). I'm training for brute strength, so I focus on heavy weights and low repetitions. High reps have their place, but that tends to emphasize endurance rather than raw strength and power. I'm benching 255 for reps, squat is rather weak ( doing reps with 230 lbs ), and my deadlift PR is 405 lbs.


Last edited by Primal Rage on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:32 pm

I only recommend high reps until you get a form epiphany. After that, lower reps are best.

You sound pretty strong to be doing 5x5. Are you still getting progress with it? You should check out reverse pyramid and leangains.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:37 pm

When I first began weightlifting, about 4 months ago, I started with the 5x5 method. I now have to do the 5X3 ( 5 sets of 3 reps ) because the weight is getting heavier each session; I add 5-10 pounds on each compound exercise daily. If I go over 5 reps, that means the weight is too light, and I need to go heavier. I've heard of reverse pyramid training before, but have never tried it. I will have to give it a try and see if it works for me. You could do the 5x5 method too; strong and heavy are relative. Work with the weight that is appropriate for the 5x5 for you.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:51 pm

I think you outlived the benefits of 5 work sets. Reverse pyramid is the opposite approach, it has you doing only 1 PR work set, once a week.

Give it a try for a few weeks, at the very least it will give your body a chance to rest and grow, and you'll be stronger if you decide to return to a voluminous training routine.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:01 pm

What got you interested in weight-lifting?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:08 pm

Being fat and wanting to impress others.

What kept me interested? Ironically, gaining the ability to not give a damn what others thought of me.

Put simply, I started because I lacked testosterone, and I continued because I gained testosterone.


Last edited by Laconophile on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:16 pm

Very good, Lacon. Your transition is admirable. You didn't settle for mediocrity. I dig the spirit.


Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:33 pm

Thanks. It's like my vanity is committing suicide through weight-lifting. Laughing 

What's better than being strong and attractive? Not needing to be strong and attractive.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:52 am

Satyr wrote:
Consider the difference between eros and agape.
I've explored the difference in many places, but some simpletons fail to read, or to understand what is written.
Yeah, so I'm not going to search your rants for a justification of the positions your put forward to me.

You seem to have changed your stance as we discussed.

You first say - 'Love is an antidote to fear. So, it is motivated by fear, and is a reaction to fear.

Apaosha wrote:
There's a spectrum being drawn here between love and fear, both passive, reactive emotions, as they represent a response to the other, an imposition on the self from the other rather than an imposition of the self upon the other, which would be an active, aggressive gesture/movement, a seizing, dominating, possessing of the other.

Is the Will to impose order fear? It stems from weakness or a lack in that it is presupposed there is by default an absence of order, a natural tendency for a system to degenerate into decay and dissolution.
In response to Apaosha you say, 'I agree with your post.
Also, the issue is a chicken and egg one.

Which emotion had to evolve first, and as a reaction to what?
Emotion does not precede sensation.
Social survival strategies do not precede singular life forms.'

It is YOU who created the chicken and egg scenario by implying and agreeing to the summation that love is a band aide fix to fear, and therefore has no place beyond it.

My response to Apaosha is this,

One can be strong and impose one's will to assert an order due to love of said order, not fear of losing said order.

Love is far more empowering than fear, it doesn't rely on perceived threat to motivate one, but the continual affection for the loved. It is not difficult to wake in the morning with a zest for life and will to grow and overcome the trials of the future.

It is not fear that motivates this zest, but love of life and love of overcoming.

Satyr wrote:
In the above post we see an example of a capitulation after the passion has been exposed to reason.
Exposed to reason? I see no reason to justify that love is a band aide fix, which was your initial claim to me, and my primary contention with you.

You seem to have backed away from that yourself, brave Satyr.

Satyr wrote:
This specimen now repeats back to me exactly what I've been saying all along: that love is not selfless, but selfish, and that like all emotions it serves a survival purpose, and it is not magical, mystical or some transcendental force.
This assumes that I did not hold this position before communicating with you, which I did and have evidence via my posts at ILP that stated this exact fact.

As I said above, my contention with you was your representation of love. Still no justification for your initial claim.

Satyr wrote:
What this specimen cannot accept is that is follows fear, in evolutionary time, for utilitarian pragmatic reasons which I've gone through in other threads.
As I opened with, I'm not expected to read your mind, nor am I wasting my time going to read through all your bullshit to find some justification for your claims.

You're the one that asserts in this thread love is a band aide fix. Justify it, in this thread. To me.

Keep in mind, that I do not downplay fears role in survival, but that fear and love exist as separate influences that arose and persisted not as a reaction to the other, but due to their exclusive benefits to our survival.

Satyr wrote:
Notice, also, how he detaches from this exposure: the "let's agree to disagree" where the perspectives are equated by a uniforming ignorance.
I didn't feel inclined to argue in a circle with you, but my disposition is different at the moment.

Again, you offered no justification, my perspective is above yours, but I didn't feel inclined to convince a stubborn middle aged man. Of what relevance to me is your approval? Very little.

Satyr wrote:
He doesn't address the issue, he skirts by it, using personal angles to imply that all perspectives are equally valid, without having to deal with my reasoning.
Your position is not valid. Love is not a band aide fix.

I offered you it's independent influences beyond fear, which you didn't deny, therefore, justifying that it isn't around as a reaction to fear.

You provided nothing to counter this position.

Satyr wrote:
How sensation evolved into emotion, and why fear had to come first, because of the sensual factors and how and why senses evolved, he does not want to deal with, All he wants to speak about is the present, the usefulness of love, how gratifying it is to him in the present.
I can't deal with your thoughts which you don't express. You're the one who says fear arose first, not me. I've no obligation to consider address a position that I don't hold, and hasn't been properly addressed to me.

I'm a pragmatist, so I do want to talk about the usefulness of love. Yet, I'm willing to discuss it's origins.

You haven't provided anything to address, that I haven't addressed.

Satyr wrote:
His love underlies all, and is equal to fear, cannot justify itself when one goes back in time.
I did not say love and fear are equal, but their integrity is on equal ground. They both arose in the same manner, therefore, to deny the integrity of one, is to deny the integrity of both.

Satyr wrote:
One wonders how awareness of sameness is possible when divergence is not already in effect.
How does one love what one is not aware of?
How does self-consciousness precede consciousness, and how does consciousness precede life, or a certain level of organization?
I do not wonder these questions. Explain the relevance of these questions to anything we've discussed.

Why need I love that which I'm unaware of? What relevance is the self-consciousness to consciousness?

As you said, things that organized pre-consciousness weren't doing it with intent, therefore, the fact of their organization does not relate to fear or love.

Satyr wrote:
Fear, on the other hand, is a reaction to the absence of awareness.
Care to justify that?

I'm more inclined to say fear is a reaction to threats, or the potential of threats that one is aware of. If one doesn't believe there's a stranger with a knife behind them, or any potential for a stranger with a knife behind them, they're not going to be afraid, even if these is a stranger with a knife behind them.

Satyr wrote:
Love required habituation, knowledge of otherness. Fear does not.
Ah, I see. Now I'm following your feeble attempt to justify your claims.

Justify that fear is a reaction to the absence of awareness.
 
Satyr wrote:
So, where no certainty is absolute, he can depart, feeling secure that his position is just as possible as any other.
I wonder how much of your words are really just you projecting your own insecurities onto others.

This seems a prime example.
Back to top Go down
apaosha
Daeva
avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 1713
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 31
Location : Ireland

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:00 am

Quote :
My response to Apaosha is this,

One can be strong and impose one's will to assert an order due to love of said order, not fear of losing said order.

Love is far more empowering than fear, it doesn't rely on perceived threat to motivate one, but the continual affection for the loved. It is not difficult to wake in the morning with a zest for life and will to grow and overcome the trials of the future.

It is not fear that motivates this zest, but love of life and love of overcoming.
You didn't understand my post because you are a typical moron.

Order is imposed as a result of an absence, a need. The act of imposing order is the filling of a void, the shaping of the apparent. Chaos is natural, Order is an imposition.

It is motivated by lack; all motivations originate from lack. One who lacks nothing has no motivations. Absolute power is indifference and is characterized by non-activity, inertness. Activity therefore, existence, is characterized by lack; a movement towards completion.

In the same way a man invades the body of a woman and fertilizes her with his seed not because of love but because of lack, because of fear - his mortality and his need to replicate himself through her body.
In this context, love becomes the numbing agent which counteracts, as Satyr has said before, the fight or flight mechanisms of both parties which evolved before and must be counteracted in order for the 2 organisms to co-operate.

You are motivated by fear because you see in the other the opportunity for your own oblivion. The other is something you can immerse yourself in, submerge yourself in, numb yourself in. Love for you becomes the ultimate numbing agent and antidote to an uncaring, indifferent reality.

There is little wonder that filth like you deified this cowardice. The Christians and their modern mutation, secular humanism. Memes themselves become numbing agents. Needy minds act like pussies, aching with desire to be filled and fertilized with another's seed, another's Will to power, another's becoming.

A Chaos of emotions needing an outside source to impose Order, the other.

Love.

_________________
"I do not exhort you to work but to battle; I do not exhort you to peace but to victory. May your work be a battle; may your peace be a victory." -TSZ
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://knowthyself.forumotion.net
Satyr
Daemon
avatar

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 16414
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 52
Location : Flux

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:10 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Consider the difference between eros and agape.
I've explored the difference in many places, but some simpletons fail to read, or to understand what is written.
Yeah, so I'm not going to search your rants for a justification of the positions your put forward to me.

You seem to have changed your stance as we discussed.

You first say - 'Love is an antidote to fear. So, it is motivated by fear, and is a reaction to fear.
And I see no reason to waste more time on a moron who did not understand my position to begin with, and now comforts himself with the idea that Satyr changed his.
It's typical amongst the herd of imbeciles, to face the same method of accusing the other before one takes an account of one's own faults. In this case you, like many of your kind, show as an example of my ideas, as you are quick to unburden yourself from the possible error, accusing Satyr of a change, rather than one forced upon you from an increasing in understanding of Satyr's views.
Because you are a hypocrite and a coward, like many on ILP, instead of saying "I am changing my mind on what I thought your positions were" to "I'm glad to see you backing off from your positions"
In the latter "your positions" are merely your understanding of them, and they have little to do with what I am actually saying.

I suspect that those who now also accuse me of claiming to be an "overman" or an "alpha-male" may also find me more "humble" if they actually understand what I am saying and why, rather than running, in fear, casting behind them ink-blots of fear, in reaction to what they think I am saying.
But...who cares, really?
It's fun watching simpletons attack the figments in their own imagination.

I also considered addressing your mascot d(69 and his accusation of me being a "capitalist", because that's almost the opposite of what I am, but who cares, and why bother?
I asked myself?
"What's the point? Is not some garbage beyond recycling?"
It's more entertaining reading his assault, day after day, upon what he thinks I am saying and what he fears I am all about.
I feel joy at the idea of him smiling every time he thinks he's landed a blow, when he still has no clue what my positions are.
He, like you, feel something negative in the air...something you cannot stomach, something that goes against your brainwashing, what you've been raised on, and that's all that matters.
Instead of trying to understand what is being said, you resort to the easy method of simply casting aspersion using the usual, trained defensiveness, you were given, and you now resort to at the first sign of something you cannot fathom....something threatening, and yet something you cannot ignore.

I would love it if imbeciles simply ignored me...but you don't.
Though you are beyond hope, beyond reason, fully engaged in the popular, the emotional, the self-serving, you still want to think of yourselves as Knights battling against Barbarians, and Saints fighting against evil.
If you ever dared to look closely you would find that you are the barbarians, and you are the disease, the miasma...you are inside afraid to look out.

Other than the usual defensiveness, you offer no alternative, besides the psychological projections which are easy.

I've explained why fear emerges first, in my world-view, many times before.
Do not search my "rants" you just settle for the usual explanations aiming at the messenger.
So, who cares, turd?
If you do not bother, then why do you think I will?

But I'm kind, so I'll give you a hint:
The reason why the emotion of fear is the first to emerge is because consciousness precedes self-consciousness, and the senses evolved to be outwardly focused.
The fight/flight automatic (re)action is an outcrop of this survival tactic, which is what fear is.
Later love evolved so as to facilitate cooperative, schooling, strategies, alter to evolve into heterosexual cooperative specialized behaviours.
Given that fear, the anxiety towards the unknown, which gave an advantage to the organism, love had to evolve inebriating methods, to placate this fight/flight (re)action.
It is also a sophisticated form of lust, ergo the connections Freud exposed.

This is why we consider love a kind of madness, an irrational state, a form of blindness.

See, retard, I begin from a pragmatic point of view. I ask:
"Why would emotions evolve? What purpose would they serve, and how?"

I do not start with the emotional position of:
"It feels good, it benefits me, mother said so and she gave me lots, and it suits me fine."

Other than that, please never change.
If you say something interesting I'll respond, if not...then please continue "destroying" what you think I am saying, and never focus on the ideas, but remain obsessed with the personality.

An entire forum going to shit, and you fucks never learn.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://satyr.canadian-forum.com/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:55 am

apaosha wrote:
Order is imposed as a result of an absence, a need. The act of imposing order is the filling of a void, the shaping of the apparent. Chaos is natural, Order is an imposition.

It is motivated by lack; all motivations originate from lack. One who lacks nothing has no motivations. Absolute power is indifference and is characterized by non-activity, inertness. Activity therefore, existence, is characterized by lack; a movement towards completion.
One is motivated to show affection to partners, friends and children.

There is no lack in this scenario, but an abundance of care.

apaosha wrote:
In this context, love becomes the numbing agent which counteracts, as Satyr has said before, the fight or flight mechanisms of both parties which evolved before and must be counteracted in order for the 2 organisms to co-operate.
This assumes one is afraid of reality and therefore needs something to overcome it.

We're not all living in fear, like Satyr, therefore, we don't need a cure. We embrace love on our own terms, for it's desired affects on our life. Not as a desperate scramble to dull the pain of being coward, like Satyr.

--------

Satyr,

You again have not justified anything. You cast the stone at me that I 'copied' you, so I returned the stone to you.

I quoted the change of your position, which you conveniently ignored. I can illustrate that anything I've said, I've arrived at in isolation of you, so feel free to address what I've stole from you.

The rest of your post is bullshit.

I feel sorry for the sheep that follow you. Especially your child

Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
avatar

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 16414
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 52
Location : Flux

PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting. Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:38 am

Dear retard.
No change in my position. Those who understood my positions, from the start, will attest to the fact that I have not changed them, because nobody has offered me a rational reason to do so.
All I receive are emotionally based defensive assaults, which are fun but tiresome, because they use the same methods in exactly the same way.
So much for individuality.  

Dear, retard, my positions on how and why emotions evolve and why fear, anxiety towards the unknown, must be the first to offer an advantage, stands.

My position as to how and why love evolved, to facilitate the alter to evolve cooperative, and heterosexual survival strategies and how love is an adaptation of lust, which is, in turn, rooted in the more primal feeding need, still stands.

I would feel more sorry for a bunch of imbeciles who will live and die without a clue.

As for the "below the belt" mentioning of my child, I thank you for your concern, but trust me, he will be something an imbecile, like you, will never know.

To the silent observer
I rescue a hopeless case and offer him a utility.
This turd's utility will be as a specimen, an example of modern nihilism.
The self-hatred, cowardice, and world denouncing horror before reality.
I give you the last man, as Nietzsche would say...the symptom of western man's decline.    

Here we have another example of my positions as these have been posted on-line and in the essays I've produced and uploaded, from time to time.
Notice that nothing on-topic is offered, and no counter-argument is provided, as to how and why emotions evolve...what purpose they serve.
This is typical of the hive-mind, the modern mind, which this latest turd is but the latest representative to dare come here.

In the past when I asked for an alternative explanation as to how and why different types arise, in the human population, or how speciation is produced, I received the same assaults using the usual "racist", "hater", and so on.
No explanation as to how and why intelligence arises and why it is uniformly distributed, according to these morons, if it is supposed to offer a survival advantage, making natural selection work.
Only the now repetitive evasiveness, using attacks on the person rather than the idea.

Notice that everything is attacked on a personal level, and feminine insinuations are used in place of masculine arguments.
Notice that there is no iota of substance in the posts.
Nothing about the topic but about the person, full of those defensive insinuation and patronizing pity displays.
He offers us a real-life reinforcement for what has been described in theory.

I need not go to third party scripture for evidence, because these turds, congregating on ILP are my proof.





_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://satyr.canadian-forum.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The meta-physics of weight lifting.

Back to top Go down
 
The meta-physics of weight lifting.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Migraine cause a weight gain???....
» weighing evryday..how much does your weight fluctuate by
» Why am I not losing weight?
» Advice on first 6 months post sleeve weight loss
» YouTube vlogs for weight loss journey

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Know Thyself :: AGORA-
Jump to: