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 So does God exist? Well I would say not yet.

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PostSubject: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:44 pm

Evolution as a Spiritual Process.

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Masculine competitiveness gave rise to memetic warfare. Technology gave rise to religion. Seeing man as separate from nature gave rise to nihilism. What is nihilism? The despair of 1+1 = 2.5, evolutionary process going to fast, people see how they are puppets to unpersonal forces, no satisfaction being found in only being.

Fight Club is genius in this sense. The first stage of the movie the narrator is a man of the mind; in which everything is reduced to numbers. Everything being numbers, emotional desires become satisfied in a artificial fashion. The second stage his alter-ego transforms him into the man of the gut, a primal urge for violence and sex, the animal within. Almost all of the mammal kingdom has always been this way. Anarcho-primitivism must be the greatest ontology? Wrong. That is the mindset of the fish who never rose to land. The last stage is that of redemption. The transition from beast to god gave man a feeling of emptiness; of not being whole. But he now sees the man behind the curtain and is indifferent. The übermensch is stoic. In the novel Palahniuk ends it with the narrator falling into the abyss, unable to cope without his escapism, that is the untermensch. Creative destruction; in order to become greater it must first become worse. Humanity was whole as Pagan, and had to destroy it self in order to transition.





What is the future of man?
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Cognitive dissonance and identity are only useful within the transition from DNA to GNR. The hive mind will be recognized as God, one will see ones power as the power of the collective. Ants hit their end stage 100 million years ago, and have thrived ever since. Humans share a similar fate. The masculinity gave it the capability of intelligence, then femininity aloud it to grow, and finally will totally overtake it.  





What is the future of Emotion?
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Eventually it will be almost totally faded. A reward mechanism that's made by the genes to trick the memes. Just as the memes can trick the genes through the plesibo-effect. Programming beings with sensations of pleasure or despair will be of no purpose. GNR is to liberate the Will from the DNA's shackles. Only pursuit will be that of self preservation and furthering intelligence.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:02 pm

Excellent!

Jaynes makes the argument that the ancients had an inferior consciousnesses, and so they perceived consciousness as a type of god.
When they spoke of gods they spoke of consciousness, as it being fed by the organ data merging with sense date (internal and external sources of sensation). It was experienced by their undeveloped self-consciousnesses as if gods were talking to them and animating them.
Thymotic and Erotic energies are these (re)actions to the original, underlying, emotion of fear/anxiety.

Some still have an undeveloped connection between consciousness and self-consciousnesses.
This is why they think consciousness is something external from their organic, organizing, emergent unity.
When they think, it is as if the voice is coming from somewhere else, from some-thing else.

This is a form of schizophrenia.
I think of it as a developmental stage, because self-consciousnesses is still young, in evolutionary terms.
As it emerges in a primitive mind the sensation would be unsettling, as if it is detaching from itself.  

This is the mind/body duality, and I think it is a directly linked to how the brain works, and this on-off mechanism of neural pulses, streaming through neurons.
[on=flow <-> off=no flow]
Of course the division is one of degree, because all is fluid and both neural bio-energy pulse (energy) and the more material neuron (matter) are only flowing at different rates in relation to each other.
All value judgments being comparisons.

Sense of self, self-identity, is this re-cognition of body as part of self, and of mind as being a different context of the same unifying, and still imperfect, ordering ...the organism.
The connection is made by memory - storage of data, as a command, a commanding algorithm making the organism behave/act in a particular manner.

Emotions are a primitive, first stage, of connectivity between brain/body processes - the genetic memory intertwining with an emergent, still nascent, mimetic memory.
Primitive species have a primitive form of this - they feel, but do not emote. They have no self-consciousness, and no cognition of self as a temporal becoming, besides a very primitive one in some (dolphins, whales and great apes being notable exceptions).
No identity and no capacity to perceive mimetically.  

Nihilism is this return, this cognitive reversal...dumbing-down.
It represses whatever self-consciousnesses exists, so as to focus, revert to a primal consciousness - this is what meditation is, in most cases.
Consciousness is also repressed as no sensual perceptions are allowed to be considered real, or relevant.
Self-consciousness is turned inward, focusing on the processes of the brain/body where a unity of no-thingness, no identity is sought.
It is a temporal stripping-away.
What is stripped away?
Dimensions, time being one of them. The past is ripped away, leaving the mind in the immediate, the present, with only a coming future to grab onto and the given present.
Having no past (no sex, no race, no tradition, no bloodlines, no family, nothing that matters), living in forgetfulness, the mind desperately grasps at service, material gain, hedonistic gratification, and this always coming future (hope).

The mind is reduced to a very small, shallow,conceptual-event-horizon, similar to an animal's.
It perceives the immediate and is not permitted a historical memory, unless it is given it as part of the unifying identity - animal imprinting.

An easy process when you've inhibited whatever potential for self-consciousness an individual inherits genetically.
It's an institutionalized stunting, retardation, of development, re-defined into an enlightened state, a growth, a going beyond the limits.
This is typical of nihilism: reversal of meanings; defining concepts using words that do not apply >>>
strength as weakness ...stupidity as intelligence ...inferiority as superiority ...unconsciousness a as higher form of consciousness... reality as illusion, illusion as a higher reality ...death as life woman as man, man as woman....etc.

This is Orwellian.

All is reverted back to the emotional stage, the infantile stage of development.
Need/suffering= bad ....warm hugs and kisses= good ...daddy and mommy (institution) watching over you=freedom/independence.
Of course this would be welcomed by the brain.
It is easy.
Fear and hope and all the emotions are used to persuade the mind of what it most wishes: total detachment from reality, and complete dependence on otherness.

This is why race, sex are denied ...they are never allowed to mature to the point where it matters.
All are kept at a pre-adolescent state, where sex is but a game of infinite exploration.
All are equal in play, because nobody wins and nobody loses in childish games. One simply replays the game.
Life is a joke, a child's game.

There is no cost, and so risks do not matter.
No severity means no seriousness.
Nothing has value.
The brain is freed from consequences it feels fearless, and pities anyone who is cautious - caution being experienced fear.
Like a drunk pities anyone still sober and lucid ...happy in his inebriation, and feeling completely safe and open to possibilities.
Total abandonment.

God is this alpha and omega, in the Christian tradition ...the two poles of absolute projections within which man conceptualizes and orients his will.
He is an abstraction, which may be used as an idea(l), a goal.

Alpha= near-absolute Order.
Omega = near-absolute Chaos.

The nihilist uses this near-some-thing/no-thing as literal points in space/time.
He hopes and wishes for their attainment.
The pagan spirit, the noble mind, the Aryan, exists in the balance, surfing the wave, content in the experience and not resentful of its ephemeral nature.

Pagans worshipped their own ancestors, who were participating within them as active agents, as genetic memories, alter memetic memories.
They essentially prayed to themselves, to the data stored in their cells, to their own untapped energies.  
This is why their gods were not perfect.
They worshipped nature, themselves ...they loved existence.

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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:34 am

Indeed. Well said. Making sense. Delving into the roots. Don't really have anything to add (so far).
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:57 am

excellent post "there will be blood".

God in the neurons 19:20

"we are a global network of neuro-chemical reactions, and the self-amplifying cycle of acceptance and acknowledgement sustained by the daily choices in our interactions is the chain reaction that will ultimately define our collective ability to overcome IMAGINED DIFFERENCES and look at life in the grand scheme of things.

"Brave New World" anyone? Sounds like the narrator was under the influence of SOMA
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:52 am

There are limits to complexity. - Entropy.

In electronic computer chips, at times, single transistors will fail - there are so many in a chip that the chance of one disintegrating in a certain time frame is far from zero. So chip designers have to add fail-safes. They integrate re-routes, duplicate and triplicate calculation units because of probable failure of some of them.

The more complex the higher the requirement for maintainance as a percentage of the overall system. At some point the advantage of synergy is surpassed by the need for maintainance. In development, that point is usually surpassed because of momentum and inertia - overshooting that point and leading to collapse. Making it into an oscillation of growth and destruction over time.

The more complex something becomes the more fail-safes it requires. Something has to constantly repair and maintain it to keep the entropic process at bay. Same inside our human bodies.
The strategy is to produce, to replicate ordered organisms which are self-sustaining. Which are seperated and yet who have possibilities of exchange. If there were no boundaries at all, no borders, no skin then any form of disease which will eventually come about would spread and destroy the whole super-organism.

Ants have a big structure but even they eventually split up and form their hive colonies which have their own self-sustaining, seperate unity.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:15 pm

Modernity is such a fascinating phenomenon insofar that it presents itself two possibilities in the wake of its perfection: either total chaos, or the most perfect order known to man. Modernity, to realize its goal, must institute its artificial infrastructures/memes so as to effectively manage the increasing genetic inferiority of the populace; this, of course, would require the exponential feminization of the lower types. Dumb women = manageable cogs; dumb men = unmanageable beasts. Whether or not this is properly executed will be the deciding factor of whether man will revert to Homo Erectus (figuratively), or, for better or worse, evolve into the Borg.

Both possibilities entail the eradication of self-consciousness. If we do become the Borg, humanity as a whole will process more raw information than it has ever done before, but at the cost of rendering individual people unable to comprehend past a shallow threshold. The maximum efficiency of the collective demands the mechanization and limitation of individual consciousness.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:46 pm

In every crisis there is opportunity, as the Japanese say.
And we are certainly living in an age of crisis, because the wars change but they never stop, and this is a different kind of conflict creating its own brand of crisis.

A Pagan loves nature, and this world, being primarily a product of man, and man being an agent of nature, is part of the existential deal.
Not surrender, but Stoicism.

The concept of artificiality is meant to clarify the parts of the environment which are man-made - it is meant to identify the human constructs and put them in their rightful place.

The system, being all-levelling, as it is, has done much of the dirty work for us.
We will not get into the question as to why or if it is guided by a motive, and is part of a conspiracy, nor will we speculate on if it is only a consequence of larger populations being forced to coexist within shrinking space ...which are then manipulated by those in power.
This is not for the moment, out focus.

What matters here is the inescapable given, because if there were an alternative we would have taken it, instead of being forced to analyze the situation, the environment, so as to adapt and survive within it, while still preserving what we hold near and dear.
The other alternative of escaping into fantasy, into navel-gazing, into forgetfulness and ignorance, we leave for the feeble.
We are Pagans, and we choose to live whatever time we have, with our eyes open.

If you are a true Pagan then the goal here is not to change the world, or the humans that populate it; it is not to be a saviour, a martyr for those who deserve nothing but scorn.
Let Jews and Christians think along those lines.
We are not two-faced.
These creatures deserve everything they get, especially when they have wished it so with such unbending fervour.

As I said there is a challenge present, a threat if you will, but also an opportunity.
The goal, as I see it, is to explore, understand, analyze, in an attempt to survive within this environment.

Death is inevitable, the question is: "What will you do with the time you have?"
The unconscious state where neither pain nor sorrow nor need touches you is already on its way, what do you wish to do now, while your sensations offer you the possibility of a choice?

They, like I said, already do the dirty work for us.
They tell us exactly who and what they are.
They expose themselves to us, willingly, but shyly.
All we must learn is to read the signs, and listen, and see, and hear, and sense.


-Already we see in MRA a forced exclusion of males from the genetic pool, minimizing sexual competition and leaving females desperately trying to bring into harmony their natural desires, and their cultural ambitions - their genes and their memes.
This is a temporal struggle, and we must recognize it as such.
These excluded, expendable, males rationalize it as a "turning away" to reduce the shame.  
They then use shame as a defensive shield, accusing the other of trying to force it upon them what bubbles-up internally when they are reminded of the truth of their situation and the "choices" they've made to deal with them.

This opens up opportunities in the sexual arena, or any area these herds find pleasure in.
Where the water buffalo go, the lions follow, or they die.


-Already they've discredited male and female sexual types, which means that without knowing it, or understanding why, they've also discredited this all-encompassing identification with the other sexual category which male/female are mere sub-categories of: Humanity.
The label has lost all substance and has become as empty of meaning as the female/male refinements of this biological category they now embrace for warmth.
Then they wonder why they feel so void, so lost, so unsatisfied.
Then they wonder why they need constant stimulation, constant distraction, constant human contact.


-Already they've discredited appearance, made the senses into tools of deceit, which not only makes them blind, in theory, but also it feeds into what was previously stated.
Because appearance can no longer be used to judge, in theory (idealism), then female male is a nonsensical term, for them ...but it follows that is also so for the term human.

The erasing of genes from the field of vision, from perception, leaves only the meme to identify a phenomenon, at least when it comes to the already shaky category of human.
This does not mean that the genes no longer apply, but only that these herds can no longer use them to understand.
This is to our advantage.
They've placed themselves in a self-blinding meme, where being obtuse and dull is a virtue.

The self-contradiction should be ignored, as much as they ignore it.
It should become this unspoken, underlying, perception that everyone pretends to ignore.
It's part of their social conventions, the bullshyte of their respect and civility.

You can't 'call them on it' because they'll get upset and they will begin looking at you with suspicion.
It is enough to keep it in mind.          


-Already they've told you all you need to know when dealing with them.
Their love, friendship, loyalty is shallow and cannot be trusted, nor taken seriously.
They are emotional vampires and prostitution is how they get their fill.

They must love everyone, if they are to remain true to their own bullshyte, or, at least, they must pretend.
Whores who sell themselves for practically nothing ...in theory.
Here, too, their lies and bullshyte is part of the equation.

Their words are without substance, because they refer to nothing real, nothing outside their tiny brains.
Nothing they say has any value. The words are easy and ephemeral, just as their understanding of them is shallow.
their actions, are more important.

They toss words around without understanding them without defining them, and without care.
They usually use words to justify, and hide their actions.
They are careless, like children, and their words reflects this carefree, superficiality.
Also, like children, it is its simplicity which makes them dangerous.
Not intentionally, but due to their stupidity, and the rage they will be governed by when their eroticism is denied sublimation.

For them words are used to create an immediate and superficial effect; an atmosphere.
There's no cost to them, because they never follow through with actions, and so they cast words about freely and with naive disregard.
And the more they talk, the more patterns in their speech you can find.
Patterns exposing what is really going on behind those dull stares and fake smiles.
Not the words themselves, but the in-between, the pauses, the gestures, the repetition, the tone, the cycles, the face.

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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:05 pm

You think you're above all that, and theists think they're above you. Only theists have G-d to say so and you're left with nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:28 pm

Echo wrote:
You think you're above all that, and theists think they're above you. Only theists have G-d to say so and you're left with nothing.
Ha!!

I am truly above it.
I need only myself.
You can look for GOD, in faces and men ...or imagine him as this invisible, incomprehensible, ever-present, beyond space/time, whatever.

A dog, if I am not allowed to hit it, may begin to think it is my superior.
Be grateful I am not permitted to find a stick.
Words ...that's all your kind has.
Pretty words.
Like:"I love you"

I used to give a shit when some moron would pop-up, out of nowhere, and like a fart proclaim:
"I've debunked you!!!"

Look in the Dungeon.
You'll find a few there.
Remember Purple Dragon?
He's all soft and cuddly now.

Remember how he also declared himself my superior?
Remember how he believed that we were equals and that I was stealing ideas from him?

Why would I bother responding to such crap?
Reread my post, maybe you can glean something more than that old shit you are still using.

Well, here you are reminding me of theists, when there's a whole bunch of them right here.
Like you, no?

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Sweetie, haven't we had this conversation before?
I don't like reruns.

Move on, go find yourself a nice christian boy, preferably with a job ...you know, fuck-off.

Let God guide you.

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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:37 am

Echo wrote:
You think you're above all that, and theists think they're above you. Only theists have G-d to say so and you're left with nothing.
are you Echo from ILP?
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:08 am

Eulogy wrote:
Modernity is such a fascinating phenomenon insofar that it presents itself two possibilities in the wake of its perfection: either total chaos, or the most perfect order known to man. Modernity, to realize its goal, must institute its artificial infrastructures/memes so as to effectively manage the increasing genetic inferiority of the populace; this, of course, would require the exponential feminization of the lower types. Dumb women = manageable cogs; dumb men = unmanageable beasts. Whether or not this is properly executed will be the deciding factor of whether man will revert to Homo Erectus (figuratively), or, for better or worse, evolve into the Borg.
Aristocracy always degenerates over time into eventual self destruction. Those who where best and rose to power gave their descendants apartheid like privileges, inhibiting competition, the thing that made them rise disapears. Although this is not always the case. Wernher von Braun the father of rocket science could trace his ancestry back to royalty in medieval times; Philip III of France, Valdemar I of Denmark, Robert III of Scotland, and Edward III of England.

The battle today is of the incompetent elite holding on to their power through the means of nepotism and the rest of us. Anarchy is what's required to usher in the new aristocracy who are the result of true competition.  

I see crypto-currencies as one of the most paradigm shifting technologies ever. It's the killer of all banks, governments, and middlemen. It can also be seen as a kind of precursor to the hive mind. Zero top down control, only peer-to-peer cooperation.

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A system approaching perfection. Whilst we are currently experiencing the 6th mass extinction. What will come first? I wonder.

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Another illustration of the end the degenerate aristocracy. Rendering the states monopoly of violence obsolete. Another dimension of apartheid gone.

This century is the make or brake moment of mankind. Lucky to experience it.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:37 am

My working theory is that this "singularity" can only be reached within manmade environments. Manmade environments depend of sustenance and the study of this sustenance is called economics. Just like any super-organism or organism principles of economics can ble applied to them. This future of cyborg humans presupposes that this sheltering manmade environment can be sustained long enough until it can be inculcated as human nature. I believe this scenario to be nigh impossible.
Just like the nihilist tries to deconstruct the past in biological terms he is also trying to deconstruct the past in an economical view by saying: you CAN borrow all you want. Keynesian economics is what cultural marxism is in an economical view.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:04 am

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People liken the current phenomena to the collapse of the Roman Empire. I would compare it more to the demise of the Spanish Empire, it was given a free lunch with all the gold and silver stolen from South America. Was the richest country in the world, and all the wealth got spent importing, domestic production shut down, eventually the money ran out, they where left with nothing, became one of Europe's poorest countries. That can be seen as a microcosm of the current predicament, except in the age of globalization, the economies are so interdependent, if America which is 30% of the entire GDP goes, the world will follow.

Once all the fiat currencies go, and it's only a matter of time, almost every one of them is getting printed exponentially in order to offset killer deflation. Then it will be up to crypto-currencies to act as a buffer, dampen the collapse, and maintain trade. If only gold and silver were in play, there wouldn't be enough liquidity and global trade would cease, WW3 become imminent. Bitcoin is a game changer, that could save the world.

In the long run the only saving grace will be 21st century technologies, that stops the collapse into the dark age. Little by little off setting the natural limits of growth, through incremental implantation, that provides more and more growth, in turn creating a snowball effect. Eventually eliminating inbound scarcity within most systems. It's literally an either utopian or dystopian situation ahead. Peak oil has already hit, and peak food production is about to. While 3rd world populations are still growing, that is an obvious eventual clash, resulting in the biggest humanitarian crises of all time. A Mad Max scenario is looking pretty likely, although who knows.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:42 pm

Haven't explored the topic of NeuroTheology, supposedly an off-shoot of Jaynes' bicameralism; some links.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:03 am

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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:58 pm

There was a time when they put Earth into the center of the known universe and they came up with all kinds of fancy equations to fit their observations into the general idea about the universe, at the time.

Science doesn't deal with truths - it never has. The idea of a helio-centric solar system made calculations easier. It was a more elegant solution. And there we see one cornerstone of modern science-religion. The ideas about the world serve the abstraction - to make the abstraction more elegant - simpler. And so it's no wonder that some proclaim that mathematics is the language of god. Oh no - humans set it as a value, as a goal and so it became god. The abstraction rules the world now, at least in the minds of many.
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PostSubject: Re: So does God exist? Well I would say not yet. Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:04 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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