Know Thyself

Nothing in Excess
 
HomePortalFAQMemberlistSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:35 am

Conventional science ( I.e., materialism, physicalism, strict mechanistic-determism, etc) is another flavor of nihilism. The scientist imagines that he is a mere observer, detached from nature, objective. He is ' cold ' and 'calculating'; emotions to him are base, trivial, and non-conducive. If this type could, he would due away with emotions all together, become stoic. He ignorantly thinks he is successful in being objective, but this is an impossibility; humans are profoundly subjective entities. But the nihilist thinks he can escape his past, ignore it.

To the nihilistic scientist, the world is cold, disenchanted, purely mechanical - an accident without any telos. Some of this framework is due to his projectionism, and some of it is a result of going to the polar end of theism, a reaction to theism. If Yahweh does not exist, if there is no heaven and hell, then the world must surely be completely void of teleology and activity that could be construed as mystical. Anything that seems " spooky" must be false in the eyes of the nihilist. The nihilist-scientist, like the Christian, clings to the extreme position. One must remember that balance is key, the middle way. The extreme theist position and the extreme scientism position are both erroneous. Balance! Balance!

One must remember that materialistic-science is in bed with Marxism, leftism. It's, really, no secret that many atheistic, materialistic scientists lean toward the Left.









Many of these nihilistic-scientists pander to the Left conspicuously; making the degenerates feel good with talk of homosexuality being evolutionarily healthy and okay, etc. Many of them, ironically, promote Judeo-Christian slave morals too.

Some of the disciples of this nihilistic science are not too different from disciples of Christianity and Islam; they blindly accept whatever a materialist-scientists says is true as if he were a priest.

The modern popularity of these nihilistic, hyper anti-theists is due to the masses desire for hedonism; they want to be able to indulge in their decadency without any lingering guilt or shame. A moralistic God figure is contrary to their hedonistic desires, so they seek out these ear tickling materialistic-scientists to alleviate them of their wishy-washy beliefs in God. Many of them are militant materialists and anti-theists out of resentment; they grew up in households where Christianity was preached by their parents. They go out of their way to viciously ridicule theists and anything that seems mystical or " spooky". They hate their nature, i.e., their past nurturing, and out of resentment seek to distance themselves from their past ( religion ) and abide in the polar opposite side ( Anti-theism, strict mechanistic-determism, etc ). Nihilists they are, indeed.

The scientific nihilist, as previously mentioned, views the world as a freak accident that has no meaning whatsoever, everything is just floating around without any purpose or function. They display their nihilism clearly in this perception. A world that was once filled with transcendental meaning ( religion ) has now become the polar opposite: a completely disenchanted, purely mechanical, deterministic, meaningless world.

That is not the way reality, actually, is. Nothing in the universe acts without a telos or functionality. The organic purpose of life is to appropriate energy and expand. The inorganic purpose is to likewise appropriate energy and expand, e.g., gravitation. All of existence acts in order to expand its force. That is the fundamental purpose of existence.


"My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power:) and to thrust back all that resists its extension. But it continually encounters similar efforts on the part of other bodies and ends by coming to an arrangement ("union") with those of them that are sufficiently related to it: thus they then conspire together for power. And the process goes on--" - Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
Anfang

avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 1989
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 33
Location : CET

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:13 am

Primal Rage wrote:
The inorganic purpose is to likewise appropriate energy and expand, e.g., gravitation.
The increase in mass of an object increases the entropy in a given system. It is not trying to delay, to resist, the increase of entropy. It just lets go. Like an animal which becomes free of all needs, which does not eat and not breathe, every cell ends its productions. There is no struggle because no need to gasp for air is felt.
Just surrender.
Like gravity.


When you pick something up from the ground or when you press your legs against the planet's surface, you are performing the work and are struggling. You are not willing to just let go. The planet does not struggle.

Life offers resistance, it tries to create and maintain itself, it tries to resist entropy, to slow down the process. A piece of rock does not.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Satyr
Daemon
avatar

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 14423
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 51
Location : Flux

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:31 am

The reason these thinkers are popular amongst the modernistic, secular humanist sect, is that they attack the previous forms of nihilism but remain true to the more popular ones.
They are progressive, in that they progress from a previous to a more current application of the same self-evident, utilitarian, idea(l)s.

The word, and the language it is a part of, has become mathematical, it has become a number.
The scripture is no longer in a linguistic form, but in a numerical, more abstracted, form.
The underlying premises are the same: the world is knowable, certainty is possible, all can be reduced to the word, the symbol, the number, there is an end, and a beginning, by implication, and humanity is one and requires saving in unison.

Once the phenomenon is reduced to its lowest common denominator, some particle, cell, and is then abstracted into a number, turned into a code, then all is the same, and all is correctable.
The code, like with the Banking system with resources and how it turned away from the tangible gold standard and adopted the more malleable, ambiguous, fluctuating, dollar standard, transforms the code into potential.
It takes the need, and multiplies it, in time, into a possibility.
Sloterdjyk says that the Banking system is a place where thymotic energies are deposited and invested.

With scientific codification of reality nothing which cannot be measured, within a certain parameter, is ever considered.
This offers a convenient excuse to ignore anything human, or about the human condition, which may disrupt social cohesion.
When some tried to codify intelligence, with the I.Q. tests there was an outcry and to this day they come up with justifications for why certain groups score differently than others.

The human is turned into a static number, a code, representing energy, which is active.  
It can now be transformed, like a bank transforms resources into monetary units, into anything: any value, any quality.
This is how we get the popularity of perspectivism, where idiots, like the one on ILP used to escape within a dualistic subjectivity that uses the either/or method which is based on the 1/0 binary code.

The binary code states that if it is not 0 then it must be some multiplier or some sum of 1.
The one is taken as the antithesis to the nil, the nullification of the one.
Therefore, if the world cannot be ascertained absolutely, cannot be proven to be an absolute ONE, then it must be a nil.
The nil is its saving grace...it is either an illusion, or fake, or all experiences of it are wrong and superficial.
Therefore, all ideas concerning the world, as nil, are equally in error.

In institutionalized science the 1/0 dynamic is represented by this Big Bang Theory, which takes it for granted, like Judeo-Chriatians do, that the world requires a starting point.
The search for the fabled "God particle" is another example.

In the humanities, as as some of the thinkers above involve themselves in, this uncertainty principle transforms into a selective reluctance to apply probabilities when it comes to humans.
With humans infinite possibilities must be presumed, across the board, which means, in mathematical terms that man is essentially a nil, a clean slate, a phenomenon void of a past, a nature, a determining factor which may inhibit freedom from all behavioural understanding.
This is the "complexity" of man, argument.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν


Last edited by Satyr on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://satyr.canadian-forum.com/
apaosha
Daeva
avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 1547
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 30
Location : Ireland

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:42 am

General point: nihilism as the term is used in this forum occurs when one willfully dissociates oneself from reality, or on the other creates a negative valuation on reality as it is.
So, a theist rejects reality by purporting that there is a supernaturality above or beyond the apparent which is preferable.
An atheist recognizes that there is no inherent purpose to reality and that life is characterized by suffering but consequently wishes to escape it through various rationalizations and justifications, like Anti-natalism.

Both want to escape, in their own way.

What is being attempted in this forum is an exploration of reality as it is and a willingness to accept the cost of life, for the sake of living.

Quote :
That is not the way reality, actually, is. Nothing in the universe acts without a telos or functionality. The organic purpose of life is to appropriate energy and expand. The inorganic purpose is to likewise appropriate energy and expand, e.g., gravitation. All of existence acts in order to expand its force. That is the fundamental purpose of existence.
Reality (activity/interactivity) precedes purpose.

Purpose is a conceptualization created by a conscious observer.

The laws of physics, such as they are, are simply the outcome that chaos arrived at following the path of least resistance..... were one of the fundamentals different, eg gravity, then chaos would arrive at another, different equilibrium which would still be capable of establishing elaborate systems of phenomenal organization, albeit dissimilar to what we have now.

_________________
"I do not exhort you to work but to battle; I do not exhort you to peace but to victory. May your work be a battle; may your peace be a victory." -TSZ
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://knowthyself.forumotion.net
Satyr
Daemon
avatar

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 14423
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 51
Location : Flux

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:03 pm

Yes ...there is no teleos as there is no arche...

Both are human constructs attempting to produce order within the entropy.

Teleos (end, goal) is a projection of an object/objective, an idea(l).
Arche  (beginning, authority) is a justification, a principle, a motive, governing this projection.

Nihilism as I use it on this forum is the opposite of how the true nihilists use it, hijacking the concept for their own self-annulling reasons.

The positive, for me, is the world as it is sensed, perceived, experienced, itself.
This reveals an absence, a lack, which includes a lack of meaning and a lack of an end (teleos) and an absence of a universal, transcendental morality (behavioural standard), and so this is the positive aspect of the world as it is, and not a negative aspects as self-hating, cowards, define it.
It is positive in that it IS, and in that it permits the possibility for life, for creation and creativity...and for human ingenuity.
Man, not contained within a preordained order, given a quest to discover what already imposes itself upon him as an absolute TRUTH, but man as a sophisticated form of existing which must create his own meaning and behavioural standard and order.
Man as a creature, a Becoming, that struggles to impose himself upon the increasing chaos, not to be, for this would be a finality in itself, but to experience, to find nobility in the fight (agon), to challenge himself to reach the highest peak before he inevitably crumbles to dust.

For me, and many on this forum, a nihilist is the one who denies, rejects, forgets, the world as it is sensed, experienced, perceived; that being a reality lacking an absolute in any form.

I negate the nihilists with their feel-good, hopes, preferences, imaginings ...justifying themselves by using beyonds, and futures, and underneaths, and the hidden, the not perceived, and that which is presupposed yet never discovered.  
I negate the genetic filth that goes to great lengths to discredit his own existence, so as to disappear in a hypothetical, he cannot explain nor define, and who then comes on-line trying to convince all to be just like him so as to not feel ashamed and so as to not become conspicuous in his inferiority.

It's easy to negate beauty, the perception of symmetry, so as to make your own ugliness, your asymmetry bearable, or to escape the lack of any other quality to feel proud of, like some feminists do.
Beauty should be placed in its rightful place, neither denouncing it as shallow nor overestimating it as an inherited quality which the individual can now rest upon.
The same applies with physical strength, which males use as an excuse.

The need, the desire, to be beautiful and physically strong should be understood and not exaggerated; appreciated but not worshipped and obsessed over.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://satyr.canadian-forum.com/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:15 pm

Anfang wrote : " When you pick something up from the ground or when you press your legs against the planet's surface, you are performing the work and are struggling. You are not willing to just let go. The planet does not struggle.

Life offers resistance, it tries to create and maintain itself, it tries to resist entropy, to slow down the process. A piece of rock does not. "


I don't view the inorganic and organic as wholly separated things; I view them as interconnected akin to a person's nature, i.e., the sum total of all past nurturing, their past. The organic and the inorganic are interconnected. The organic is an off shoot of the inorganic, an upgraded version. A rock is active. It may not appear active, but it is, and you can see that if you delve deeper. Activity is work, and work requires energy. Work requires effort. The rock is not conscious like a human, but it still strives. Striving doesn't require consciousness. The rock strives for increased mass via gravitation. There is no end; only imagined ones. Think of gravitation like hunger. A human strives to appropriate energy through consumption, but there is never an end to the hunger; it is perpetual. It may temporarily be satiated, but eventually the striving returns, so with gravitation there is no end; just a perpetual accumulation of energy until the system collapses. Organic consumption is a manifestation of the force of gravitation.

Also, you acknowledge that nature has a telos: to resist entropy. You aren't too far away from my position.


Last edited by Primal Rage on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:22 pm

The mind of the conventional "New Atheist" is but a mere manifestation of Cartesian subjectivism. They take entities in the world as already given, with all of their features being plainly present-at-hand for the subject to take note, all the while ignoring the fact that the world is primordially equipmental and thus ready-to-hand in relation to Dasein. In reality, an observed phenomenon at first calls forth the various associations from one's past (world disclosure) that utilize the initial impression of the phenomenon into a reinforced web of associative meaning. It is only after scrutinous and focused analysis that the features of an entity in itself become unconcealed. Instead of taking note of the necessarily reflective and analytical nature of rational perception, the new atheist treats the present-at-hand as what is most primordially experienced.

It is thus that the new atheist finds a means to rationalize all of his vices, including his own nihilism. Since he treats the perceptually pure Cartesian subject as the true mode of his essential being, the new atheist treats his passions and emotional judgments as justified and "natural", given that he treats them as somehow being isolated from his "true", rational subject. This is how the new atheist satisfies himself with his own existence as it is. He is not rational in the Stoic sense, for he is far too ignoble to pursue Virtue and dispassioned judgment; he instead rationalizes his ignobility by conceptually isolating it from himself.
Back to top Go down
Anfang

avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 1989
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 33
Location : CET

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:07 pm

Primal Rage wrote:
Also, you acknowledge that nature has a telos: to resist entropy. You aren't too far away from my position.
It does resist the increase of entropy - Why it does that, I don't know. But it seems to be a commonality among life and it is something which distinguishes it from non-living matter.

If I assign purpose to something then it's just me doing that. It doesn't mean it's TRUTH.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:37 pm

Then you are seemingly contradicting yourself; you say that nature's telos ( striving or purpose ) is to resist entropy ( implying this an object truth ), and then you later insinuate that you assigning purpose to things is merely an arbitrary, illusionary mental construct with no basis in reality, so nature resisting entropy is not an objective TRUTH?
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
avatar

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 14423
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 51
Location : Flux

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:58 pm

No, a projection is a direction finder, not a point in space/time.
Entropy is increasing but it is never finalized in an absolute chaos.

No end...no teleos....continuity.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://satyr.canadian-forum.com/
Anfang

avatar

Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 1989
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 33
Location : CET

PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism. Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:26 am

Primal Rage wrote:
Then you are seemingly contradicting yourself; you say that nature's telos ( striving or purpose ) is to resist entropy ( implying this an object truth ), and then you later insinuate that you assigning purpose to things is merely an arbitrary, illusionary mental construct with no basis in reality, so nature resisting entropy is not an objective TRUTH?
What is entropy? It's a measure for the order within a system. An increase of entropy is a move towards more chaos. That's a definition, a human definition. It's also a definition that entropy in the universe increases all the time.

It's the observation that certain things happen without effort. That which happens without effort is defined as increasing entropy, that which requires effort decreases entropy. But the overall entropy seems to increase all the time. Every effort to locally decrease entropy (make things more ordered) brings even more of an increase in entropy (chaos) within the whole system. That's why we have no perpetuum mobiles (a machine or phenomenon which decreases the entropy within the universe).

So this recognition of pattern and those definitions, by their very definition, seperates life from non-living material.
Some people recognized those patterns - those differences between conscious effort and the behaviour of non-living matter - and formulated a theory.

Now, if someone says that the resistance of entropy is the purpose of life then he does something similar like the caveman who proclaims that thunder is a sign of the gods. We have a limited understanding and in my estimation we will always have a limited understanding.

By the way, I'm not saying it's wrong that the caveman attributes the thunder to some god. For that time and in that environment and for those cavemen, that imagination, that sense of purpose of things could be his most honest expression of what he is and how he sees himself.

That's his truth. But his truth may grow and then it becomes the truth of many people who actually would have a different sense of purpose but who are content with someone else's truth. That truth can become the TRUTH and then it could become a sort of tyranny.

And back to entropy. The more science tries to connect various observations, on small scales and on large scales, in forms of time and space - from subatomic to multi-universe, from quantized time to eternity - the more loopholes and inconsistencies arise. Entropy at the 'edge' of the universe seems to behave differently. Bringing about more order it seems. But that's just my own speculation.

By now I imagine that it would explain a lot if the physical laws themselves are evolving or if they are in a kind of dynamic state of flux on a very large timescale.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism.

Back to top Go down
 
The Nihilism of Conventional Scientism.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Active Nihilism
» Nihilism: Signs & Symptoms
» UK R Navy Conventional Diesel Submarines - WW2 & Beyond.
» ARTICLE: 'Conventional Dermatoglyphics - A Review'
» Anarchist Nihilism

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Know Thyself :: AGORA-
Jump to: