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 The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult.

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Mo
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:59 pm

Mo wrote:
Here's my rebuttal to the rehashed cosmological argument. (I spruced it up a bit)...

Everything hitherto existent had a cause that was insistent,
And the immense and incalculable universe once became,
So he concludes, with no surprise, a cause gave the universe size.
And here what many will apprise implies a further claim,
‘God loves you,’ he’ll include, ‘and at heaven you ought to aim’ -
Preparing for a Christian shame.

Ah, not for ages have I read such faulty premises in a thread,
And ignorance they do spread by setting fallacy aflame.
Surely you would like to learn – from the argument of our concern
What support we can discern – discern the line to blame.
To William Lane Craig is owed the argument’s acclaim.
That clumsy hack I will defame.

For what we require to see is some such reason to agree,
With Craig – though vague is the argument’s opening claim.
‘It should be clear’, was all he said, thinking that would hold its stead
‘Intuitive in your head’, and that was all he would proclaim –
‘Intuitively obvious’, is all that supports the opening claim; -
That is all, and pretty lame.

Presently we must recognize, that things we often visualize,
Like tigers, tables, rabbits, or similar things that we could name,
At one time began to exist; and so for others that do persist,
And so for others we could list, listing whatever once became,
But the universe is not a ‘thing’ – that’s the point that they disclaim; -
Logically a set is just a frame.

It is a point that gives me pause, to think all ‘things’ must have a cause,
When the universe is not a ‘thing’, but the ‘set’ of all we can name.
The Room of rooms may have no source, no start or end on its course,
No beginning to endorse without Craig’s error there to blame.
The error that the ‘set’ obeys the rules of what it does frame.
An error is here to blame.

And so from here we must acquit, the error we cannot permit,
And wonder why God’s creation ex nihilo is a better fit.
‘It’s not,’ I say, with no lament, it’s on a par for our consent;
Not more deserving of assent, but comparable all the same –
Material cause, or efficient cause, lacking all the same.
And this is where I end my game.

Nicely done, Mo.
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Kovacs



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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:55 am

Primal Rage wrote:
This thread will be dedicated to showing the true nature of Christianity. If you are a Christian, be forewarned; this will most likely offend you.



Let's take a look at some of the virtues of Christianity:

1.) Blind faith

2.) humility

3.) passivity/submissiveness ( turn the other cheek ).

4.) self-denial - self-abasement

5.) Shunning the world

6.)  Complete dependence ( anti-individualism )

7.) Protection of the weak
But then Christians conquered huges swathes of the world, wiped out many cultures, and spent a lot of time killing other Christians.Christianity seems more complex than you make it out to be. Not that I am fond of Christianity. I also see at least some of the modern sense of individualism coming out of Christianity. Whether it 'should' or not. You had a religion that shifted focus inward (again) and individualized salvation and separated one out from one's peers and family even, if necessary. Jesus' who sword speech.


Quote :
Now let's compare this with a more naturalistic form of virtuism:

Quote :
1.) Rational thinking
This is also an oversimplification, much of what goes for rational thinking today came out of the Christians and their rehashing of the Greeks and theology.

2.) Pride

3.) Bravado/ Defiance ( Might is Right )

4. ) Self-acceptance/ Egoism

5.) Embracing the word/ nature - Life affirmation

6.) Individualism - self-sufficiency

7.) Glorification of the strong - demonization of the weak
I am pretty sure members of a number of cultures would see these as Christian traits.


Quote :


Roman-Master virtues and other pagan virtues were in accord with the latter set of virtues; they led to a strong people as they promoted strength and pride. With Christianity, it seeks to undo these master-morals - to invert them. Instead of strength being a virtue, it becomes a vice, and weakness then becomes the new virtue.

Let's just compare a couple of pictures depicting the Christian God Jesus and the pagan God Thor.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As you can see by the juxtaposition, Thor is depicted as being strong, virile, fierce, and masterly. Jesus is depicted as weak, submissive, sickly, and pathetic. What a stark contrast, no? Polar opposites they are. This, of course, is intentional; the creators of Christianity resented strength as they possessed none, so in the attempt to make themselves feel better, they sought to diminish that which makes them feel bad about themselves. They also deified their own state of being: weakness.
And this seems like an oversimplification and just one slice of Jesus. He's certainly not a weak figure. He's pretty damn brave and stoic in fact. But he does agree to what he considers his fate. He is also precisely supposed to be a God becoming a man which Thor is not.

This world denial is certainly a quality of Christianity.

I am not saying you are wrong, but it is oversimplified.
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:18 am

Kovacs wrote:
But then Christians conquered huges swathes of the world, wiped out many cultures, and spent a lot of time killing other Christians. ...

I also see at least some of the modern sense of individualism coming out of Christianity. Whether it 'should' or not. You had a religion that shifted focus inward (again) and individualized salvation and separated one out from one's peers and family even, if necessary.

There are masculine attributes to Christianity. There's masculine nihilism striving towards an ideal, meaning God, rather than the feminine form of nihilism striving towards chaos. And Christianity does in part have that impetus towards individualism. The issue of strength is determined based on whether or not the individualist uses this cultural impetus of individuality towards breaking away from Christianity itself, and establishing himself, as one with a past, or if he lives and dies in denial of all those that came before him in worship of an abstraction.

The first argument, pertaining to Christian conquerors, does seem like a general attribute of strength. The problem is that Christianity is defined by Christians to be in direct contradiction to what is so often their actions; even many newly emerging atheists will mention this contradiction as part of there divergence from Christianity. A devout Christian, meaning one whose Christian out of zealousness not obligation, who conquers, shows cowardice in his words for this contradiction, and should he use the idea of spreading salvation as a way of mitigating opposition to his conquests, then he's a coward in action. Some degree of deception is often necessary in conquest, but to slander oneself, one's family and ancestors in such a way, shows a hint of desperation.

Quote :
And this seems like an oversimplification and just one slice of Jesus. He's certainly not a weak figure. He's pretty damn brave and stoic in fact. But he does agree to what he considers his fate.

His philosophy was weak, but he showed strength in following it to its logical conclusion.
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:29 am

Convoluted is often mistaken for complexity.
I've come across simpletons claiming to understand something as being more complex than presented, and then they never, actually, offer us a sample.  

In the present case, regarding Christianity, the defenders of stupidity would blunt Occam's razor than face the simpler explanation, or possibility, that Christianity is two-faced: it has one mouth, speaking on both sides, and no ears to hear its own hypocrisy.
This ideal/real contradiction (theory and actual) has also been uncovered in Judaism and is called the Jewish Paradox...which is really not a paradox if you include in your assessments an understanding of language and of human psychology - duplicity, and selective reasoning being strategies.
It has to do with the Cult of Victimhood rising on quantitative waves to become the aggressor, and how it can then reconcile its method used to amass this power, by seducing weakness, with its new-found power.

In short, to simplify: how do the dogmas built on the worship and exploitation of weakness, then apply the numerical strength this creates without a contradiction troubling them?
A juggling act, using, "complexity," for one, to hide its tracks.  

It's the same tactic used in relation to women, and their "mystique," or race, and its hypothetical intricacies, preventing any judgment call, and denying ourselves the natural right to use our own senses.
To protect the obvious hide it in the pretense of linguistic obscurity.

All of science is founded on this simplification of reality, reducing it down to a number of repeating patterns we call Laws of Nature, but when the motive is to protect and to pretend then words can enter to cloud the concept denying any insights that might contradict the social order, or that can be used by otherwise shallow minds to imply depth of understanding.
The motive becomes to complicate not to simplify; to bury in a grey ambiguity, rather than to bring to light.  

Yet again I respond in the only manner these pseudo-intellectual liberal nitwits deserve:
For a simpleton everything is far too complicated to understand; for the coward only the things that threaten him are so.

Obfuscation is now confused for complexity....as ignorance is often mistaken for innocence and courage...and knowledge is mistaken for understanding...

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Trixie Celūcilūnaletumoon

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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:09 pm

Erik the Klutz wrote:

The human female adores these bold bad men. They will flock to trials where serial-killers are being prosecuted, fantasize about rape, and cheer for their favorite gladiators. The human female instinctively admires a ruthless and powerful man. Nature made these females to be this way, to select the strong and brave, and reject the weak. It's all part of nature's plan.

Because women just flock to serial killers and rapists on dating sites don't they? Mmm, I can smell the nature already.
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:23 pm

reasonvemotion wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being (God) exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. Therefore, a maximally great being exists in the actual world.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

7. Therefore, God exists.

Can't deny the logic there. If multiverse theory is true, it would take a God to make sure that there were no Gods.
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:18 pm

Trixie Celūcilūnaletumoon wrote:
Erik the Klutz wrote:

The human female adores these bold bad men. They will flock to trials where serial-killers are being prosecuted, fantasize about rape, and cheer for their favorite gladiators. The human female instinctively admires a ruthless and powerful man. Nature made these females to be this way, to select the strong and brave, and reject the weak. It's all part of nature's plan.

Because women just flock to serial killers and rapists on dating sites don't they? Mmm, I can smell the nature already.

The thing about dating sites is that they lack that face-to-face, in the moment, vital element that makes women attracted to men. Women are about emotions, how this and that makes them feel. Dating sites are very bland, not exciting, like in real life interactions.

However, when women can, at the very least, see a man, say, some serial killer on trial via the TV, they can become attracted, and many women do flock to these trials.

In summa, it's about animation, vivaciousness.
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:30 pm

Nightmare wrote:
Trixie Celūcilūnaletumoon wrote:
Erik the Klutz wrote:

The human female adores these bold bad men. They will flock to trials where serial-killers are being prosecuted, fantasize about rape, and cheer for their favorite gladiators. The human female instinctively admires a ruthless and powerful man. Nature made these females to be this way, to select the strong and brave, and reject the weak. It's all part of nature's plan.

Because women just flock to serial killers and rapists on dating sites don't they? Mmm, I can smell the nature already.

The thing about dating sites is that they lack that face-to-face, in the moment, vital element that makes women attracted to men. Women are about emotions, how this and that makes them feel. Dating sites are very bland, not exciting, like in real life interactions.

However, when women can, at the very least, see a man, say, some serial killer on trial via the TV, they can become attracted, and many women do flock to these trials.

In summa, it's about animation, vivaciousness.

Why is it then that serial killers and rapists have a tuf time getting laid? (which is why they rape women in the first place.)
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:30 am

Do they have a tuf time?

Idk about that...

Some have been frat-boys, some have been charismatic lawyers, etc.

It's a common misconception that rape is committed, due to sexual-frustration.

Sure, that's def. a factor for many, I imagine; but many times it's the thrill, the sense of power;

that primal urge to ruthlessly dominate and over-power.

Werewolf
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:43 pm

Trixie Celūcilūnaletumoon wrote:
reasonvemotion wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being (God) exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. Therefore, a maximally great being exists in the actual world.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

7. Therefore, God exists.

Can't deny the logic there. If multiverse theory is true, it would take a God to make sure that there were no Gods.

When female try to do logic...
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:49 pm

Hrodeberto wrote:
Trixie Celūcilūnaletumoon wrote:
reasonvemotion wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being (God) exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. Therefore, a maximally great being exists in the actual world.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

7. Therefore, God exists.

Can't deny the logic there. If multiverse theory is true, it would take a God to make sure that there were no Gods.

When female try to do logic...

Logic is logic. You are welcome to point out holes...
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PostSubject: Re: The Masochistic, Self-Abasement Cult. Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:13 am

The whole thing.
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