War

The point of this is that in order to win a war, a trophy must be determined beforehand. The Trojan war started over a woman. To the warlike, the end of war is war itself, but to the 'historical mind' we see war as a means to an end, that may in the end prove historically futile, but was essential at the outset.

"We root back into antiquity via a thread of spectres. Rome projected its fall into Venice, which became the capitalist world, the spectralization of value. But Rome was built on the spectre of Greece, and Greek was Athena, the spectre of Homeric mind. In turn he reflected on Achilles and the war that primordially swept up this flash in the cosmos; "the west", lashed out and still reverberates in an absolutization of spectrality. This war was caused by a woman figuring as a spectre in the spiritual eye of a [---] race. And what was in the head of this woman? Seldom mattered anything so deeply nothing - seldom a more primordially repressed. Our world is a seal on irrelevance."

And yet to try to attain pleasure without war, circumventing war, that is the formulate of decadence. Our world is the capitalization of decadence. The warlike instinct only has to breathe aloud to know it is still king, but to be a king and to hold a kingdom are two different things. Nobility is solitary, scattered, isolated.

In the beginning was the sword.

No war without a prize ---  right now the prize is oil and western superiority. But this whole dependency on oil on the one hand boosts the feeling (roaring engines) and on the other implies a fundamental subservience.

Largely, the political perversity in the west is due to this subservience. I assume that when energy (excess) is acquired through means of invention (Mercury, or the a/bisexual aspect of the conscious psyche), the west will shed a lot of its fucked up morality. Seeing as it is that morality that sustains the dependency, it will be a matter of depletion and eventually natural law replaces the subservience with a need of mastery. The west is sucking from the Earths tit and it'll take whatever Babylonian whore offers herself.

Jumping the nest means inventing energy. It's very prosaic actually.

No but fuck that. That would mean that energy is the only thing worth fighting for in the grand political scheme. That nobility only depends on having ones energy to oneself, not being dependent on salespeople. To a large extent it is, but this is really very prosaic and scientific.

There is no other way: war to the end of war.

Ah yes, this is the generator in the deep. Shakti, "power". The Aryans placed a goddess in this root. The masculine principle is the transcendent whole, or the heart.

The masculine is the result of the battle; truth.
Cold and hard perceived by subjected enemies, overflowing perceived by itself and its beneficiaries.

Decadence = pleasure unearned, or earned with ease.
Usually due to an external intervention, an other Will's support.
Ennui, cynicism, accompanies it, because the mind cannot appreciate what it takes to enjoy the outcome - what it takes to make the pleasure possible in an environment which evolved it as a method.

Take obesity in a world of artificial superfluous nutrients,a s an example
Take the loss of sexual satisfaction in an oversexed, love for all, world.

Like a spoiled child who inherited the father's wealth and squanders it away, on nonsense, on hedonistic, materialistic nothings.
The end becomes the sensation with no appreciation of past, and no regard fro the future (posterity).
A psychology entombed in decadence - decay.
A walking cadaver, rotting.  

Actions with no results, no value.
Value being measured using time.
Superior quality = what resists entropy, what has longevity, what rises the one gifted in its potential endurance.
The which is timeless, being the absolute form of it - Being.  

Self valuing...

1- How one identifies self
One can identify with an abstraction (God, Nation, Idea, Humanity), the memetic Self, and value that Self, while devaluing one's own self, the biological genetic self.
2- Know Thyself, means to self-discover....by exploring one's past.

Lyssa wrote:

Evola wrote:

""...one of the origins of the imperial apotheosis, that is to say, of the feeling that an immortal 'numen' was concealed in the emperor, is undoubtedly the experience of the warrior: the imperator was originally the military leader, acclaimed on the battlefield in the moment of victory: in this moment, he seemed transfigured by a force from above, fearful and wonderful, which imposed precisely the feeling of the numen.
... the one who experiences heroism spiritually is pervaded with a metaphysical tension, an impetus, whose object is 'infinite', and which, therefore, will carry him perpetually forward, beyond the capacity of one who fights from necessity, fights as a trade, or is spurred by natural instincts or external suggestion." [MW]

We see here that entities are not, in the regard of men, primarily flesh, but primarily God, immortal. This means that man, in his own regard, is not primarily flesh but God, immortal - at least the highest aspects of what he ultimately chooses as himself is divine. Ultimately his choice will be based on his conception of the divine, regardless whether he believes in the divine or not.

Lyssa wrote:

Evola wrote:

"While, in the cycle of the first caste, war was justified by spiritual motives, and showed clearly its value as a path to supernatural accomplishment and the attainmeny of immortality by the hero (this being the motive of the 'holy war'), in the cycle of the warrior aristocracies they fought for the honour and power of some particular prince, to whom they showed a loyalty which was willingly associated with the pleasure of war for war's sake. With the passage of power into the hands of the bourgeoisie, there was a deep transformation; at this point, the concept of the nation materializes and democratises itself, and an anti-aristocratic and naturalistic conception of the homeland is formed, so that the warrior is replaced by the soldier-citizen, who fights simply for the defence or the conquest of land; wars, however, generally remain slyly driven by supremacist motives or tendencies originating within the economic and industrial order. Finally, the last stage, in which leadership passes into the hands of the slaves, has already been able to realise - In Bolshevism..." [Metaphysics of War]

And yet even in the Bolshevist there is a trace of nature, as Marx promised him his own perennial victory under the guise of historical necessity. A lowly and treacherous representation of such a victory perhaps, but a promise of it nontheless. Its reality is its driving millions to their death in the belief of a higher cause.

For this reason, I would not place the Bolshevik experiment as lower than the capitalist one.  I would rather rank the failure to construct a perennial victory based on proletarian values above the encroaching attempt at abolishing the true existential impulse that is the security state which has comfort as its highest value.

Though it is true that the doctrine of Communism itself is, in its standards, identical to the doctrine of Christianity - the promise of victory in terms of the opponent. Both doctrines also maintain a trace of reverence for the holy war, whereas Consumerist society disregards the idea that man wants to battle at all, and thus is the most pure of human diseases.

Lyssa wrote:

Evola wrote:

"For the strong man inaction is torture.

Hence, the nanny-state was a torture apparatus to begin with. What grew out of it is just more sophisticated torture. It will have to burn.

Quote :

A Fascist system of ethics, if thought through thoroughly, cannot but be directed along those lines. 'Scorn for the easy life' is the starting point." [MW]

I agree with this.

Here is the problem with Humanarchy, at this point. Not that Humanarchy represents the will to easy life, but it has no explicit partiality, no war-drum, no "God" - no subject that wills itself beyond itself.

The problem is enormous. The ancient will to combat thrived in a world that had no limits, that wasn't 'discovered' and closed-off from itself.

"The World" should be endless, a realm of expanse, a real to expand until one meets ones ultimate value in death. Now, it is a small pot with goldfish. We should thank at least Islam for being such a persistent enemy to the west, but we should try to utterly crush it, just for the sake of having something lower to destroy.

In doing so we would be taught the martial values again, as Islam will surely be a formidable opponent which, in its primitiveness, its conception of paradise and martyrdom, is connected to a form of warrior mentality, as Mohammed represents for them what Caesar once represented for Rome.

What bliss it would bring, to be on the warpath to crush an entire religion.

Lyssa wrote:

Evola wrote:

"A special sacred college in Rome, the Feciales, presided over a quite definite system of rites, which provided the mystical counterpart to every war, from its declaration to its termination. More generally, it is certain that one of the principles of the military art of the Romans required them not to allow themselves to be compelled to engage in battle before certain mystical signs had defined, so to speak, its 'moment'. ...most people of today would naturally be inclined to see in this an extrinsic, superstitious superstructure. The most benevolent may see in it an eccentric fatalism, but it is neither of these. The essence of the augural art practiced by the Roman patriciate, like similar disciplines,... which can easily be found in the cycle of the greater Indo-European civilizations, was not the discovery of 'fates' to be followed with superstitious passivity: rather, it was the knowledge of points of juncture with invisible influences, by grafting onto which the forces of men could be developed, multiplied, and led to act on a higher plane, in addition to the normal plane, thus - when the harmony was perfect - bringing about the removal of every obstacle and every resistance within an event-complex which was material and spiritual at the same time. In the light of this knowledge, it cannot be doubted that Roman values, the Roman 'ascesis of power', necessarily possessed a spiritual and sacred aspect, and that they were regarded not only as a means to miliatry and temporal greatness, but also as a means of contact and connection with supernal forces." [MW]

All these paragraphs contain multiple gems. This one is so radically significant that the modern mind will not even register it.

I object to the word "supernatural", as these forces are present in nature, but invisible to the untrained eye. Nature is nothing but the sum of all forces that work on each other.

The Romans surely has a more technologically sound view of the occult than the National Socialists did. The Roman art was directly rooted in a world were such forces were known and revered by kings along endless lineages of power,  the nazi's only decided to re-orient politics on such forces, which helped them become the hypnotic and inevitable force that they became, but they were no where near refined and deep enough to secure for themselves true victory. We might see this period, analogously to Jung's observation of Wotan awakening full of irritation after a long, uncomfortable sleep, as the re-introduction of real power, of power for powers sake, as the first moment where the paralyzing blubbermask of Christian worldview was pierced, where war was perceived in its true face, without justice, without reasonable aims, as only the will to Victory.

FC wrote:

The problem is enormous. The ancient will to combat thrived in a world that had no limits, that wasn't 'discovered' and closed-off from itself.

"The World" should be endless, a realm of expanse, a real to expand until one meets ones ultimate value in death. Now, it is a small pot with goldfish.

1. The world is dynamic, and so nothing is really known until one really encounters it. What looks already discovered is always changing the nearer or farther we move towards or away from it;

"Now, we all live, comparatively speaking, in far too great security for us to ever acquire a sound knowledge of man: one person studies him from a desire to do so, another from boredom, a third from habit: it is never a case of: 'study or perish!'. As long as truths do not cut into our flesh with knives, we retain a secret contempt for them: they still appear to us too much like 'winged dreams', as though we were free to have them or not have them - as though there were something in them which stood at our discretion, as though we could awaken from these truths of ours!" [N., Daybreak, 460]

2. There's that Zarathustra saying, in times of peace, the war-like man attacks himself. When there's nothing left, no worthy enemy, then you become your own. There's always self-loathing, feeding on yourself...

3. If we were to talk of more danger, the Twilight of the Gods has been surpassed by the Twilight of Man...

I've quoted this elsewhere;

Satyr wrote:

"What is happening today in the west is a type of extinction.
Human diversity may be incorporated within uniformity, but this does not mean that the distinctive characteristics of each breed of man do not suffer the natural consequences of attenuation.
The European man is slowly being taken out of the scene.
Along with him he takes the ingredients that made civilization, as we know it, possible." [Manifesto]

Satyr wrote:

"A modern disconnect, a sense of disillusionment, a disrespect for all and everything, including of one’s own self, a loss of dignity, a decline towards feminine earthiness, with promiscuity and animalistic instincts unleashed upon the world, all revealed; a shallow and empty spirituality finding enlightenment in self-hating depravity and superficial idolatry.
The deterioration of the masculine spirit is accompanied with the slow extinction of the pater, the father figure, the connector to one’s entire family legacy and to the spiritual realm which seeks to break free from its earthly bonds.
The masculine spirit strives to rise above, to overcome, to fly upwards towards a projected divinity, an ideal, and its loss constitutes a decline towards the soil, the instinctive the hedonistic, emotional, irrational, and materialistic, the feminine." [ib.]

Satyr wrote:

"Man, alone, is responsible for the condition of his species, since women will go along with any moral or spiritual decision that dominates the minds of men.
Because of this he becomes the creator of his own demise.
Feminization is, paradoxically, of a masculine design.
Nihilism is a male issue.
Extinction is a male challenge.
Is the male type a primitive expression of the human condition destined to be lost or marginalized?
That remains to be seen.
One thing is for certain, where masculinity is extinguished so is the spark of individuality, creativity, personality and un-harnessed curiosity." [Feminization]

Valuing itself is a masculine-enterprise, and with the dwindling of the masculine or thymotic spark, then it is a situation of being a-political, and to the greeks, being a-political was invisible, and being invisible was good as being dead.
So Humanarchy will have a problem if it has no thymotic agenda.

FC wrote:

We should thank at least Islam for being such a persistent enemy to the west, but we should try to utterly crush it, just for the sake of having something lower to destroy.

To destroy the Influence...

Quote :

"...they must have opponents, strong opponents, if they are to become strong. -
Thus we immoralists require the power of morality: our drive of self-preservation wants our opponents to retain their strength - it only wants to become master over them." [N., WTP, 361]

Quote :

"...he deemed it impossible to end this contradiction by destroying the one and completely unleashing the other power; then, the only thing remaining to him is to make such a large edifice of culture out of himself that both powers can live there, even if at different ends of it; between them are sheltered conciliatory central powers, with the dominating strength to settle, if need be, any quarrels that break out. Such a cultural edifice in the single individual will have the greatest similarity to the cultural architecture of whole eras and, by analogy, provide continuous instruction about them. For wherever the great architecture of culture developed, it was its task to force opposing forces into harmony through an overwhelming aggregation of the remaining, less incompatible powers, yet without suppressing or shackling them." [N., HATH, 276]

FC wrote:

In doing so we would be taught the martial values again, as Islam will surely be a formidable opponent which, in its primitiveness, its conception of paradise and martyrdom, is connected to a form of warrior mentality, as Mohammed represents for them what Caesar once represented for Rome.

What bliss it would bring, to be on the warpath to crush an entire religion.

Sloterdijk, like the other author mentioned in the Under-world thread, sees Islam as a strain of communism:

Sloterdijk wrote:

"What qualifies political Islam as a potential successor to communism are three advantages, which can be analogously identified with historical communism. The first is the fact that an inspiring mission dynamic is inherent to Islamism, a dynamic that predisposes it to become a quickly swelling collective of new converts, that is, a "movement" in the narrow sense of the term. It is not only the case that it quasi-universally addresses "all" without discriminating on the basis of nations and social classes. It attracts especially the disadvantaged, undecided, and outraged (insofar as they are not female, and sometimes even those). It does so by presenting itself as the advocate of the spiritually and materially neglected poor and by gaining sympathies as the heart in a heartless world. The low preconditions of admission play an important part here. As soon as a person has been admitted to the ranks of believers, he is immediately usable for the purpose of the fighting community— in some cases to be immediately used as a martyr. By plunging into a vibrant community, newcomers are often given for the first time the feeling of having found a home and of not playing an equal and detached spectator but a particular role in the dramas of the world.

The second attraction of political Islam emanates from the fact that it— in a way only preceded by communism—is capable of offering its followers a clear, aggressive, and grandiosely theatrical "worldview" that rests on a clear differentiation of friend and enemy, an unmistakable mission to win, and an exhilaratingly Utopian final vision: the reconstitution of the global emirate, which is supposed to provide a shelter for the Islamic millennium, stretched out from Andalusia to the far East. With it the figure of the class enemy is replaced with that of the enemy of the faith, and class struggle is replaced by holy war—while keeping the dualistic schema of a war of principles, it demands a necessarily long war rich in casualties. As usual, in its last battle the party of the good is destined to win.

It can easily be seen that when it is used for political purposes, so-called fundamentalism is less of a matter of faith than an appeal to act or, more specifically, a matter of providing roles through which great numbers of potential actors are put into a position in which they can move from the- ory to praxis—or rather from frustration to praxis. In general it is true what demographic research has brought to light: "religion provides ... additional oil for a fire whose original fuel does not come from it." As a matrix of radical activations, Islam is on a par with historical communism; perhaps it is even superior because it can present itself with regard to its culture of origin not as a movement of radical rupture but as one of a revolutionary reestablishment.

The third and politically most important reason for the inevitably growing dramatics of political Islam (even if at this hour, after a series of defeats, it seems to have lost quite a bit of its initial attraction) results from the demographic dynamic of its field of recruitment. Just like the totalitarian movements of the twentieth century, it is essentially a youth movement or, more specifically, a movement of young men. Its verve to a large degree results from the excess of vitality of an unstoppable giant wave of unemployed and, socially speaking, hopeless male adolescents between the ages of fifteen and thirty—in their majority second, third, and fourth sons, who can enact their futile rage only by participating in the next best aggression programs. By creating in their base countries counter-worlds to the existing one, Islamic organizations create a grid of alternative positions in which angry, ambitious young men can feel important—including the impulse to attack both close and faraway enemies today rather than tomorrow." [Rage and Time]

Fixed Cross wrote:

I object to the word "supernatural", as these forces are present in nature, but invisible to the untrained eye. Nature is nothing but the sum of all forces that work on each other.  

Evola syncretizes many gnostic paths together that is not to my taste, but in the general view of his ideas, he uses that term to differentiate the earth dominated nature - the telluric forces,  from the super-natural - i.e. to its spiritualization.
To him, Transcendence or the supernatural is the domination of shapeless materialistic forces;

Quote :

"Transcendence as known to the Civis Romanus is no escape from the Contingent, nor is it submissiveness to a God to which he refers to only nominally or symbolically as a being per se, but is in reality, a point of spiritual force one reaches, not by prayer, but by Will, and which then finds expression upon the existential plane in the form of consequential acts of real-ization." [Preface to Evola's Revolutionary Force of Rome]

Lyssa wrote:

1. The world is dynamic, and so nothing is really known until one really encounters it. What looks already discovered is always changing the nearer or farther we move towards or away from it;

This is a healthy perspective.

Quote :

"Now, we all live, comparatively speaking, in far too great security for us to ever acquire a sound knowledge of man: one person studies him from a desire to do so, another from boredom, a third from habit: it is never a case of: 'study or perish!'. As long as truths do not cut into our flesh with knives, we retain a secret contempt for them: they still appear to us too much like 'winged dreams', as though we were free to have them or not have them - as though there were something in them which stood at our discretion, as though we could awaken from these truths of ours!" [N., Daybreak, 460]

True.
I invented VO in order to avert death. That is perhaps why it is so elusive - it may simply not register with people who have no experience of pure necessity.

Quote :

2. There's that Zarathustra saying, in times of peace, the war-like man attacks himself. When there's nothing left, no worthy enemy, then you become your own. There's always self-loathing, feeding on yourself...

Only the philosophical instinct can keep distance from this self-consuming rage and so compel it to be a hammer and chisel, and put himself in the position of becoming the sculpted, the creation.

The rage of the strong man turned to himself is the steel of the philosophical hammer. The hand that wields the hammer is the will to power that remains inscrutable, that does not identify with this or that state, but only with itself, and sees everything that exists beside it as a means to enhance itself. "The spirit" that rules even over the soul, the apex point of the soul, the realm of pure possibility to which it sacrifices itself to become whole by its own terms - the transcendent, where WtP is seen as self-valuing, whereby the entity which has cleansed itself becomes 'possessed'.

Quote :

3. If we were to talk of more danger, the Twilight of the Gods has been surpassed by the Twilight of Man...

I've quoted this elsewhere;

Satyr wrote:

"What is happening today in the west is a type of extinction.
Human diversity may be incorporated within uniformity, but this does not mean that the distinctive characteristics of each breed of man do not suffer the natural consequences of attenuation.
The European man is slowly being taken out of the scene.
Along with him he takes the ingredients that made civilization, as we know it, possible." [Manifesto]

Satyr wrote:

"A modern disconnect, a sense of disillusionment, a disrespect for all and everything, including of one’s own self, a loss of dignity, a decline towards feminine earthiness, with promiscuity and animalistic instincts unleashed upon the world, all revealed; a shallow and empty spirituality finding enlightenment in self-hating depravity and superficial idolatry.
The deterioration of the masculine spirit is accompanied with the slow extinction of the pater, the father figure, the connector to one’s entire family legacy and to the spiritual realm which seeks to break free from its earthly bonds.
The masculine spirit strives to rise above, to overcome, to fly upwards towards a projected divinity, an ideal, and its loss constitutes a decline towards the soil, the instinctive the hedonistic, emotional, irrational, and materialistic, the feminine." [ib.]

Satyr wrote:

"Man, alone, is responsible for the condition of his species, since women will go along with any moral or spiritual decision that dominates the minds of men.
Because of this he becomes the creator of his own demise.
Feminization is, paradoxically, of a masculine design.
Nihilism is a male issue.
Extinction is a male challenge.
Is the male type a primitive expression of the human condition destined to be lost or marginalized?
That remains to be seen.
One thing is for certain, where masculinity is extinguished so is the spark of individuality, creativity, personality and un-harnessed curiosity." [Feminization]

Valuing itself is a masculine-enterprise, and with the dwindling of the masculine or thymotic spark, then it is a situation of being a-political, and to the greeks, being a-political was invisible, and being invisible was good as being dead.
So Humanarchy will have a problem if it has no thymotic agenda.

Yes, it will.
At least its founders are Thymotic natures, but work is to be done to sharpen this substance into a weapon, a spear, an arrow, a straight line.

I agree with Satyrs analysis of the imminent danger. And the countering of this danger is the utmost priority.

A new ideal of Europe is necessary. The EU must acquire a cultural counterpart, that grows from the soil upwards, a movement to sustain and justify the state, the speak in familiar terms. In this case the state exists before the movement does, but that does not make the necessary dynamic and rank-order different.

It is a matter of mobilizing the masculine forces in Europe. That is a matter of making these forces recognizable to themselves.

Here is where philosophy and politics meet myth and art.

Lyssa wrote:

FC wrote:

We should thank at least Islam for being such a persistent enemy to the west, but we should try to utterly crush it, just for the sake of having something lower to destroy.

To destroy the Influence...

Quote :

"...they must have opponents, strong opponents, if they are to become strong. -
Thus we immoralists require the power of morality: our drive of self-preservation wants our opponents to retain their strength - it only wants to become master over them." [N., WTP, 361]

Quote :

"...he deemed it impossible to end this contradiction by destroying the one and completely unleashing the other power; then, the only thing remaining to him is to make such a large edifice of culture out of himself that both powers can live there, even if at different ends of it; between them are sheltered conciliatory central powers, with the dominating strength to settle, if need be, any quarrels that break out. Such a cultural edifice in the single individual will have the greatest similarity to the cultural architecture of whole eras and, by analogy, provide continuous instruction about them. For wherever the great architecture of culture developed, it was its task to force opposing forces into harmony through an overwhelming aggregation of the remaining, less incompatible powers, yet without suppressing or shackling them." [N., HATH, 276]

In general I would agree, but practically I wonder. How would one integrate the Islamic faith into a greater machinery without suppressing or shackling its people? How would one retain the Islamic faith under any circumstances without suppressing or shacking its people? There are enemies and then there are plagues.

A possible key to this issue would be the nature of Turkey. This country in itself carries the contradiction of secularity and Islam, the latter which was pressed into subservience by Atatürk who by this feat has done the Turks enormous honor. Note that secular Turkey is at least geographically tied to Greek history.

Quote :

"In human life, you will find players of religion until the knowledge and proficiency in religion will be cleansed from all superstitions, and will be purified and perfected by the enlightenment of real science." [Atatürk, October 1927]

"Language is a bridge... Religon is a bridge... History is a bridge... We must delve into our roots and reconstruct what history has divided. We can't wait for them to approach us. We must reach out to them." [October 1933]

Despite Erdogans reformations, I think that the country retains great resilience in the face of its religion. The West-Turks likely carry a little too much Greekness in them to be fully subject to the religions slavish nature, so as to become apolitical and invisible, like most other muslim peoples. Turkey is essentially war-like, and I would say the Turks are rather Tymotic.

All this strictly in the context of Islam. Turkey is the least unhealthy nation under this religion, therefore, if the religion is to be engaged with the intention of giving it a place, Turkey should be taken as a signifier of the religion.

Yet even to think about the religion in constructive terms too much leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. It's healthier for me to recognize it as the antithesis to virtue that it is.

Fixed Cross wrote:

Lyssa wrote:

FC wrote:

We should thank at least Islam for being such a persistent enemy to the west, but we should try to utterly crush it, just for the sake of having something lower to destroy.

To destroy the Influence...

In general I would agree, but practically I wonder. How would one integrate the Islamic faith into a greater machinery without suppressing or shackling its people? How would one retain the Islamic faith under any circumstances without suppressing or shacking its people? There are enemies and then there are plagues.

N. believed Xt. was like narcotics, useful to tame and civilize the barbarics and criminal rejects, the scum of the previous society. A docile subject is a useful subject.

Doesn't Islam produce submissives and eager mercenaries? The instant death penalties maybe could grant some benefit in quick cleansing and selecting out the morbid elements then and there, and keeping the other two semitic infections in check.

Something like that...

That is one thing Islam is good at, swift and severe punishment. Inspiring fear. This thundergod aspect of Allah is very active. I have unfortunately experimented with its magic, it is meteorologically potent, I fear there is a strong Jupiter aspect.

The Hebrew magic is far too potent for me to judge. I remain convinced that this alchemy is of an order that deserves more respect, that, in its monolithic will, is an ancient titanic artifact against which the diversity oriented reverence characteristic of Indo European culture is defenseless without Apollo, who was not well understood by Hitler, who understood only the dark Zeus beyond the Abyss. But crossing the Abyss, Apollo was  lost and the dark Saturn, Marah the bitter sea, opene up. The trance of sorrow. Had Germany had a couple of Agrarians, Saturnians in its warcabinet, had they not invaded Russia but created Lebensraum in France, Poland and the Balkan - but that was not the goal they was after - that was rupture, unleashing of earthly forces against the power of the 'international community', the equalizing force, the numbers game.

There is an enormous hard line blood and soil oriented population in Greece. They are now typified as fascists, and they would be more valuable to their ancestors if they would return to the old cults. To revive the Gods and to build new temples. Moon cults, a new home. Now that I think this, yes. The victory is in allegiance with the moon. Islam and Judaism but also Vedic and Chinese astrology all orient on the moon. The West is evidently Sun based, but it must relate to the moon in order to be stable. The Romans, of course, had elaborate moon cults.

As soon as we would install official moon-based holidays, we would grow in vitality.

A design would development of a precise energetic objective. We could work with full/new moon conjunctions with Sun and Saturn, for example. Moon-Saturn is the most potent genetic aspect.

The Moon - Saturn pattern means accumulation and eventually procreation. It is temporal, solid, fertile, rewarding.

Hitler had Jupiter with Moon and Saturn solitary, high up in Leo, the autocrat/hero type, '8' in the enneagram. Moon with Jupiter is enthusiasm, magical social touch. The Mars/Venus conjunction is evidently powerful and also squares his Saturn. You compared Mars/Venus with Battle/Warrior, I think. If these are together, we get something quite unfathomable.

Fixed Cross wrote:

That is one thing Islam is good at, swift and severe punishment. Inspiring fear.

The more I think about it, I see that another way to interpret Nietzsche's saying "destroy the influence" need not always be about giving a usefulness in the sense of sustaining it as it is, but destroying the influence is simply making it im-potent. Evola spoke of Islam as an outer and inner jihad [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]; and so if the outer manifestation can be subverted and stalled into a purely inner jihad, then Islam could be rendered into a harmless spiritual practice, and who cares which other-worldliness they submit to...   So maybe Islam just has to be rendered more de-materialized and hyper-spiritualized.
But that also has its own problems, since spiritualization makes the virus morph into a covert secularist meme and end result, you have something subversive like Sufism which is really militant Islam masquerading as mystical spirituality - today's Turkey is Sufist. All these nihilistic cults ultimately should only be seen from the perspective of evolutionary cleansing and usable tools in life's grander scheme.

Quote :

This thundergod aspect of Allah is very active.

Only if you believe the ka'aba was a meteorite stone...

I hope I have not misled you, but Roy Jackson's book 'Nietzsche and Islam' shows Mohammad and Islam for the farce that it was.

The Islam closer to Judaism view:

Satyr wrote:

Islam is closer to Judaism than it is to Christianity.

Like with the Jews the messiah has not come, as it has for the Christians; the man to save 'her' from the world, has not appeared.

If Christianity is the daughter, a Jew-Mother, birthed, who married a Greek to spawn children such as: Marxism, Anarchy, Humanism, Transhumanism and so on, the Islam is the still waiting maiden; a virgin resenting her mother, because she fears she may remain a spinster.
She produces effete males...who then must commentate for their condition with displays of hyper-masculinity. Their attitudes towards women shows this deep resentment, approaching a mania, wanting to hide females so as to not expose their own emasculation.

The Islam closer to Xt. view:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'll have to come back to more on this later.

The ancient I.E. cults were predominantly Jupiter worshipping. Thunder-centrism preceded Solarism.

(The Moon to Germanics was masculine btw.)

The Islamic crescent pertains to the moody outbursts than a thunder aspect to the symbolic Allah is what I think; Judaism coming to the fore after repression by 'peaceful' Xt.
The Muslim hypermasculinity corresponds to blind emotional aggression and cruelty, than the thunderwheel of Indra and Zeus rolling to create space.

Aryans are essentially space-creators,
Jews are time-clingers. Benoist brought out this difference in his [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.];

Alain de Benoist wrote:

" In Genesis, one of Cain's characteristic features was his desire for boundaries. He wished to materialize his ownership. According to one midrash, if Cain killed Abel, it was because the latter did not want to respect a division of property that the two had agreed upon. Condemned to exile and having settled in the "land of Nod" (Genesis 4:16), Cain then makes the distinctively "pagan" choice of intensity versus duration, space versus time-eternity. By constructing a city, as we have seen, he was visibly seeking to lay the foundations of a kingdom or an empire - and this is where his "pride" resided. He transformed, as Eisenberg and Abecassis properly put it, "his temporal issue into a spatial one."

The universe is thus conceived in the Bible as a world with no spatial boundaries but limited in time, whereas in paganism it is considered to be limitless in time but a place where man has the duty to draw spatial boundaries. Frontiers established in space establish man as the master of the space he occupies. Boundaries in time, absolute caesuras, only show what distinguishes man from God. In the one case there are established roots and specificity, in the other, the vocation to universalism and deterritorialization. "Settlement within a country, attachment to a place, without which the world would become insignificant and hardly exist," writes Levinas again, "is the very scission of humanity into autochthones and foreigners."

Quote :

I have unfortunately experimented with its magic, it is meteorologically potent, I fear there is a strong Jupiter aspect.

I remember you wrote something here and then erased it; that was your last topic on KT;

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Fixed Cross wrote:

The Moon - Saturn pattern means accumulation and eventually procreation. It is temporal, solid, fertile, rewarding.

Moon - need, instinct, memory, reflection - therefore a coping mechanism.
Saturn - discipline, methodism, grounds-up principalism, resilience - therefore an endurance mechanism.

When you have coping and endurance together, that's a Stoicism.

That is the the broad ideally speaking.

In other scenarios, moon - imagination, reflection, the subconscious and saturn - boundary, rigidity, stabilizer which could mean a stubborn stupidity... the blockage of the imaginative and introspective faculty leading to a terrible repression, becoming moody, hypersensitive, and dominating phobias, instinctual fears unable to reflect back on itself, and the inhibition of emotions and imaginative enthusiasm.

Fixed Cross wrote:

Hitler had Jupiter with Moon and Saturn solitary, high up in Leo, the autocrat/hero type, '8' in the enneagram. Moon with Jupiter is enthusiasm, magical social touch. The Mars/Venus conjunction is evidently powerful and also squares his Saturn. You compared Mars/Venus with Battle/Warrior, I think. If these are together,  we get something quite unfathomable.

The 'fascinating' part is his neptune and pluto [two higher octaves] so close together as just 4 degree apart in gemini [lower uranus]...  Feel that. He's covering the three outer in one stroke...

Lyssa wrote:

Fixed Cross wrote:

The Moon - Saturn pattern means accumulation and eventually procreation. It is temporal, solid, fertile, rewarding.

Moon - need, instinct, memory, reflection - therefore a coping mechanism.
Saturn - discipline, methodism, grounds-up principalism, resilience - therefore an endurance mechanism.

When you have coping and endurance together, that's a Stoicism.

In other scenarios, moon - imagination, reflection, the subconscious and saturn - boundary, rigidity, stabilizer which could mean a stubborn stupidity... the blockage of the imaginative and introspective faculty leading to a terrible repression, becoming moody, hypersensitive, and dominating phobias, instinctual fears unable to reflect back on itself, and the inhibition of emotions and imaginative enthusiasm.

Yes. What do you make of Saturn Sun, harmonic and conflicting?

Quote :

Fixed Cross wrote:

Hitler had Jupiter with Moon and Saturn solitary, high up in Leo, the autocrat/hero type, '8' in the enneagram. Moon with Jupiter is enthusiasm, magical social touch. The Mars/Venus conjunction is evidently powerful and also squares his Saturn. You compared Mars/Venus with Battle/Warrior, I think. If these are together,  we get something quite unfathomable.

The 'fascinating' part is his neptune and pluto [two higher octaves] so close together as just 4 degree apart in gemini [lower uranus]...  Feel that. He's covering the three outer in one stroke...

That was a powerful generation in the shaping of symbolic paradigms. Look at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. He has them half a degree apart.

Fixed Cross wrote:

I invented VO in order to avert death. That is perhaps why it is so elusive - it may simply not register with people who have no experience of pure necessity.

And that's why I urged you to read Heisman.

When you read it, you'll see how VO answers the question and the nihilistic logic of Heisman that he had to demonstrate with his own life.
But here's the kernel of it that was discussed in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thread;

Quote :

"The modern spirit's lack of discipline, dressed up in all sorts of moral fashions.- "objectivity" (lack of personality, lack of will, incapacity for "love")..." [N., WTP, 79]

Quote :

"Radical objectivity towards subjectivity would mean attempting honesty to the point of absurdity. To focus on rooting out the deepest sources of subjectivity amounts to seeking out those truths that are most destructive to subjectivity, i.e. self-interest. It is to make a specialty of truths that kill.

If I had no biases I would be dead, rather that sitting here right now, writing about them. To approach the most biasless state of death is to pursue a course of rational selfdestruction through a rigorous elimination of biases towards life. Yet to be value neutral would be to not be biased towards objectivity over subjectivity or vice versa. While objectivity is not inherently self-justified as an end in itself, objectivity could be a means. Objectivity could be a means, for example, of rational self-destruction." [Heisman, Suicide Note]

Quote :

"How far would one be willing to go in pursuit of scientific objectivity? Objectivity and survival are least compatible when objectivity becomes a means of life, subordinate to life — as opposed to life subordinated to objectivity. If the greatest objectivity implicates confronting the most subjective biases, this implicates confronting those truths that most conflict with the subjective will to live. By simply changing my values from life values to death values, and setting my trajectory for rational biological self-destruction, I am able to liberate myself from many of the biases that dominate the horizons of most people’s lives. By valuing certain scientific observations because they are destructive to my life, I am removing self-preservation factors that hinder objectivity. This is how I am in a position to hypothesize my own death.

So if objectivity is not justified as end, then objectivity can be a means of rational self-destruction through the overcoming of the bias towards life. Rational self-destruction through the overcoming of the bias towards life, in turn, can be a means of achieving objectivity. And this means: To will death as a means of willing truth and to will truth as a means of willing death." [Heisman, Suicide Note]

Quote :

""Synthetic processes of life work in paradoxical relationship to analytic processes because natural selection effectually “analyzed” or “chose” certain synthetic processes over others. This implies that the most complex syntheses might incorporate an analytic blind spot related the preference of some synthetic organizations over others.

A living thing cannot incorporate all physical possibilities into itself if it is to remain alive. Life, on some level, is an organization synthesis that contradicts, overcomes, or outsynthesizes the physical probabilities of its immediate environment that would otherwise lead to death. Just as the life processes of an individual bacteria cell could not exist if its cell walls were opened to all the physical possibilities of its outside environment..." [Heisman, Suicide Note]

Quote :

"It is a measure of the degree of strength of will to what extent one can do without meaning in things, to what extent one can endure to live in a meaningless world because one organizes a small portion of it oneself.
The philosophical objective outlook can therefore be a sign that will and strength are small. For strength organizes what is close and closest; "men of knowledge," who desire only to ascertain what is, are those who cannot fix anything as it ought to be.
Artists, an intermediary species: they at least fix an image of that which ought to be; they are productive, to the extent that they actually alter and transform; unlike men of knowledge, who leave everything as it is..." [N., WTP, 585]

Fixed Cross wrote:

Pleasure is excess.
Nature requires excess to thrive, and it must thrive if it is to be.
Agon is within thriving; between thriving and decline.
Mars/Agon battles to conquer Venus; excess of energy-current, pleasure.

Muhlmann wrote:

"MSC events... release maximal (M) stress (S) and cause strong phases of cooperation on numerous levels: the cooperation of the terrorists, cooperation of the rescuers, cooperation of the victims, their families and friends, the cooperation of the police and military units.
Stress physiology belongs to the organism’s cognitive systems and the cognitive result triggered off by the perception of a stressor is the binary reaction system ‘fight or flight’ – attack or retreat.
Under the influence of stress, noradrenaline, adrenaline and cortisol secretion is increased. This has the following effect; cardiac and circulatory functions are intensified, metabolism, immunity and sexual activity however are weakened. In this way all the organism’s energy reserves are channelled into the skeletal muscles in order optimise their motor abilities. They are used for fight or flight. In addition neural areas in charge of rapid perception and fast reaction are also strengthened. Stress physiology is thus a cognitive process by which a perception is transformed into a flow of energy.
Of even greater importance than the stress itself is the happy ending of the stress phase. It is here, that a second aspect of the cognitive character of stress manifests itself, and it is here, that the decision is made whether the whole process is healthy or morbid, since stress is normally associated with morbid behaviour.
It is above all this pathological and therapeutic aspect which has led to stress physiology being so well researched.
Morbid stress can lead to depression in humans for example.

There are three possible results of the fight: dominance, subdominance and submission. The victor is ‘dominant’ his catecholamine and cortisol levels quickly reach their normal levels after stress action. Experiments have demonstrated that after repeated successful stress actions the base values of noradrenaline, adrenaline and cortisol are even lower than they were before the stress success series. This means that the animals have become healthier through the success series. The cardiac and circulatory complex is able to adapt as the low cortisol levels bring healthy sleep and increased immunity. Here we find a phenomenon which we can call the ‘samurai effect’. The successful combatant finds ever increasing inner peace. His fighting abilities create something like an aura. This aura can be perceived by opponents and can result in duels being decided on the strength of this aura and the opponent signalling ‘I surrender’.

Stress cognition consists of two phases. During the first phase recognition of a stressor is changed into an energy flow in which organic energy is transformed into fight or flight activities. During the second phase stress activity is assessed.
Only if the individual arrives at a non-negative assessment of the stress action does it then enter the poststressal relaxation phase. This is typified by rapidly sinking catcholamine and cortisol values and is associated with a slightly improved general state of health and increase in testosterone production.
As testosterone is a sexual hormone the world looks a much nicer place in poststressal relaxation than it would have without the stress episode. Mars is the god of combat and victory and Venus the goddess of relaxation. Both, as we know, are well acquainted with each other." [Maximal Stress Co-operation Theory]

FC wrote:

The key is in the weight that is not directly controlled by his will, but indirectly. Somewhere in the chain of command are hiatuses in his control, "pressure points" that when pressed, disconnect weight from control. [

Body-memory...

Muhlmann wrote:

"Potential transformations of genetic programs depend on learning activity. If no learning activity takes place the genetic offers remain switched off and no genetic expression, as it is called, occurs. Genetic expression in the neuronal area is the development of the neuronal network which is dependent on activity.

This neuronal reinforcement by means of the repetition of activities can also be described as ‘body memory’ or ‘procedural’ memory. The ‘body memory’ becomes active when all bodily movements are automatic, e.g. when driving a car we don’t think about which foot operates which pedal or when playing the piano one does not think about what one’s fingers are doing and when soldiers doing their drill at the barracks don’t have to think about how to handle their weapons.

Enculturation means storage of cultural traits in the biological memory. It is possible for example to speak of the enculturation quotient of a riding a bicycle, driving a car, playing the piano, having a barbeque, eating spaghetti, playing football, tightrope walking, firing a machine gun and programing a computer.

The triggering of an emotion during a learning or perceptual process stimulates the so-called ‘episodic memory’. The episodic memory means that the individual not only remembers the object noticed but also the entire scene in which the object was noticed." [MSC]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]