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reasonvemotion

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PostSubject: Life's Journey Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:13 pm

I recall my first experience of the "high" seas.

The colour of the ocean turns to a deep navy blue.  The wake of the ship, leaving its inroads in those dark waters. The air, I 'tasted" for the first time, pure, filling my lungs, I laughed as I greedily inhaled.   I remember one afternoon just before sunset leaning on the railing mesmerised, looking at the sea, the sky, the warm mellow baked sun, the very vastness, being surprised by a school of flying fish dipping into the water, flying out again, intent on their journey.  I remember a pod of dolphins, skilfully, like athletes, skimming through the water.  I remember leaning on the railing watching this, talking with others, when an earring I was wearing came off.   I watched it fall........falling as the ship cut through the ocean, I saw it disappear.   I wondered where it would eventually rest on the sands below, deep in this ocean, whittled away perhaps in time by the swell and fall of this great body of water.  The ship moved silently further and further away.

My thoughts wandered.  I realised there are events that one has no power or influence or understanding of or over.  One has to accept and if there are reasons, do I have to know all the answers, do I even want to.   I fill a purpose.  I am but one, of the many, as the sands are of this sea    Is that not enough.
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PostSubject: Post Personal Given Meanings of Life Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:36 am

To Satyr: If you do not mind it; can you elaborate on this.

Satyr wrote:
I would do whatever it took to get the job done.
I'll tell you it was excruciating to behave contrary to my nature, for so long, but I had to do it, in this world, populated by women like you, dear.
Women raising daughters, and sons, like themselves.
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I too wish to have children one day (depending, I have three main paths), but I know I am not ready for such and to live with another person not consisting of my blood, the 'rest of my life' also is something which bothers my thoughts if I would pursue this desire of having a child or multiple children.
Yes, I so now and then have a desire to be with a woman due to her beauty, I at the moment have it - but I am realistic about it, it will fade away (after having fulfilled the desire), as does the woman's beauty.

Did you became a temporarily, unpersonal hedonist to get the job done; in what ways did you lower yourSelf and how did the woman (or women) react upon it during the fishing.
You have what you wanted eventually - I guess the personal meaning of your life has extended due to your child.
How did (and do) you go through life, adapting - living within the system.


There are many things I desire to do, to learn, to practice, to teach. But I cannot focus upon too much at once. I have many cultural / expressive interests such as singing (I am taught Gregorian chanting at times without any religious obligations), poetry, art, philosophy, languages, dance and I like to know (human) Nature, history, psychology.

I got denied a voluntary job in Georgia a few days ago, which would have allowed me to stay at host families, to learn the language, their history etc., and next to my duty - to learn some of their dances.
So I decided this weekend to ''settle'' due to this and also due to the less unschooled work offered, I do not wish to stay at such a fragile position to be depended not on how you do the work, but how much you are liked regardless the work.
Most probably I will not attend the next Arabic classes, nor any future travels or learning instruments & dances. Now I am orientating on a few studies which mainly ask motivation and discipline - It feels a little like a ''defeat'', subjecting to the system.
I have contacted a few in Belgium and the Netherlands regarding wood carving / sculpture / ornaments. And on my mothers request regarding a ''more stable life/future''; smithing.
Regardless, I have already made a big (to my standards) investment in the tools of wood carving.

But I still cannot simply see myself subjecting to the system to the fullest extent (study / work & that is it) - the 'rest of my life'. I always desired to die at a virile age through a worthy fight or by taking the dagger at myself if I could make a rightful judgment regarding the time, on the Roman/Japanese way - to go through pain and impulse indicating not to do it, but not accepting the immediate.
But only after having lived, or during living, I mean; a 'value life', to know the value of living through taking risks with my comfort / life at stake, to have become skilled in certain subjects, 'to know what it is' (the value of what we use daily regarding life necessities, to know the past of what we use in present).
But both are unlikely, this desire is fading with the day except that I still wish to know the values.


There are still roads open, at the end of August I will experience and participate (if they deem my personality worthy) in Russian folk dances -
there is just so little culture to enjoy through participation.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:51 pm

Simple cost/benefit analysis....or Game Theory, if you like.

What is the goal?
What are the possible costs?
What are the possible benefits?

No exaggerations on either side.

Most minds, the modern, naive, idealistic ones, downgrade the costs and upgrade the benefits, making the goal a delusional projection which, if archived, always disappoints them.
This is what females and effete males usually do.
Then, when they achieve what was supposed to make the "happy", because they've exaggerate the object/objective to hyper-real proportions, they must find the reason why it has not met their expectations.

Many having made a mistake, and discovering it too late, will not admit it - in fact they will urge others to make the same mistakes so that their own does not feel so embarrassing to them.
Have you ever met those miserable wretches who are in a bad marriage and passionately urge all to get married?
Same goes for those buffoons who finally get the career they always thought they wanted, only to discover it isn't all that great - and that what was supposed to make them happy has only made them more miserable.
What do they do?
They tell everyone how happy they are, insisting that the young people should be inspired by them, and that they will follow his path, as the only valuable path.

Two options, at this point:
The first, and most popular, given the average mind's cowardice and feebleness, is to blame the other.
It is the others fault, the world's fault, or, in some cases, some ambiguity, like "changing chemistry" or "one has outgrown" the other, or some bullshit, like that.
It's never nature, as in the seven-year-itch, lust reaching its end and then nothing left but comfort and habituation and anxiety concerning the alternatives; never their own delusional projections contradicted by the real world - ideals shattering against the real.

The second, and least popular option, is taking responsibility, accepting culpability, blaming yourself.
This option forces you to consider the possibility that your original expectations, and projections, were based on false or exaggerated premises...and that you were naive and a romantic fool.
This can lead to depression and self-admonition....with a vengeful desire to hurt yourself as the deserved penance.

There is a third option....the most difficult by far.
The third, and most difficult option is to do this analysis beforehand, and to opt in or out based on this cost/benefit analysis.
This requires a strong imagination and a lucid mind, which will not be corrupted by fear, or hope - one which, more importantly, will not be swayed by peer pressures and the usual shaming methods...as indicated by some of the members here concerning ambitions and maknig money and all that crap.  

OhFortunae wrote:
in what ways did you lower yourSelf and how did the woman (or women) react upon it during the fishing.

In today's world...modern, feminized, emasculating, one must play the game in feminine ways.
You have few masculine options; your masculine advantages are denied to you.
so, you must become feminine in your tactics, behavior...thinking.

You know the system is pro-feminine, and that in the end it will side with the female's interests, so you must keep this in mind before you enter into anything. it will be part of the "cost" analysis.
It is better to exaggerate the possible costs, than the possible benefits - because then any surprises will always fall within your preparations, and if they are less then you will be posit8ively affected having already prepared for the worse.

You know modern females do not cook or clean, are demanding, spoiled, and protected institutionally.
You know that whatever 'undying love" a female professes, she means it...but is clueless about the fact that it ism lust - and lust has an expiration date.
usually from 5-7 years.
Then, if there is nothing else you have in common, no interests, and no child, you have nothing more than habituation, comfort, settling for the best case scenario.
Most men, and women, more so, are so terrified of being alone that they will do anything to prevent that - including remaining with a mate they've lost all interest in.

OhFortunae wrote:
How did (and do) you go through life, adapting - living within the system.

I changed how I saw the system and the people that participated in it, alongside me.
It no longer defined me, as an individual.
I was not a salve to its standards.

Not all that were around me were of my kind, my peers. their opinions only mattered if my well-being was affected, otherwise their judgments and standards meant zero to me. i existed outside and beyond their confines.
The system was part of my world, but only a small part; the part I was forced to survive within, but was not the limits of my identifiers and understanding.

My past went beyond my birth.
My sampling pool went outside the time and place I lived in.
I drew knowledge, and constructed my understanding, from beyond the temporal-even-horizons most were trapped within.
The patterns I perceived went beyond my ephemeral lifespan.

I was not shamed by the Judeo-Christian ideals.
They no longer applied to me, but only on a superficial level, because I was forced to coexists amongst those who were governed by them. it became a factor, to include into my cost/benefit analysis, and not a standard to evaluate.

I began to seek the rare, the exceptional...and I decided to use, manipulate, if I could, the rest.

Live Lightly means not buying into the production/consumption, cycles of nihilistic compensating mindsets; the modernistic lifestyles.
it means enjoy selectively.
When they told me to not discriminant I made my discrimination more precise; when they told me to drop my walls, I made them higher, thicker...because walls offer you choices; when they told me to love everyone, to care for everyone, to sell my compassion and loyalties like a whore sells her body, I made mine more costly, more demanding, to drive the average imbecile away; when they told me to be honest, I became a better hypocrite than them; when they asked me to pretend and lie, I became brutally honest.

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OhFortunae

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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:34 pm

Thank you.


The 5-7 year loss of lust I can recognise within my circles, but I have never encountered a person yet who insists on getting married while being unhappy (eventually) themselves, only that if I get married to hope upon the better (in contrast to others). I asked a person at my work how he could be married for such a long time - he stated that one should simply not let the relationship succumb into a brother-sister relationship (thus without lust).


The best relationship I think would be physical attraction and friendship based upon shared interests, and each knowing its biological role.
But the only women I know who can cook and are willing into taking and maintaining these specialized roles - are foreign women mainly of a Islamic background.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:19 pm

Try south america ; )
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:49 pm

OhFortunae wrote:



The best relationship I think would be physical attraction and friendship based upon shared interests, and each knowing its biological role.
But the only women I know who can cook and are willing into taking and maintaining these specialized roles - are foreign women mainly of a Islamic background.

I concur.

If I'm not mistaken, you've mentioned before that you are theistic, and that you admire certain Jihadists ( something about their warrior ethos ).

Would not an Islamic woman be the perfect match, then? Middle-Eastern women are some of the most beautiful females I've seen.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:18 pm

Although I can feel highly attracted to the diverse branches of Caucasoid women across the globe; I think it would be the most rational to built a relationship with another woman of my own kind (Germanic) within a shared geographical location (West-Europa). Less of a cultural / behavioral gap, except modern thinking. Only once I have met a woman for whom I would make a irrational exception to ''have'' her - due to her beauty has struck me; and still does.
She is of Kumyk descendance.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:21 pm

Just because I admire / appreacite certain values of another people, does not mean I would like to adopt them as a whole - thus to become muslim.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:26 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Try south america ; )

Except you better be fluent in Portuguese or Spanish and be willing/have the funds to permanently live there... Women(from any culture) adapt very well to western feminization once they live here for a while.
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PostSubject: Ego / Appreciating Life / Words Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:41 pm

I wanted to make a video in regards of appreciating life, after I had read a specific sentence; but instead I started to think about why I can appreciate it and many others can't.
Not like them who talk about playing WoW to ''escape'' or simply have ''fun'', who direct their message indiscriminately to anybody: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Especially due to Sloterdijk, Satyr and Bergson (thanks to Lyssa) I start to understand combined with my own personal experiences, what the ego is; and lately I am getting repulsed by all those Moderns using the reference ''I'': ''I think'', ''I am'', ''I want'', ''You are (from the perspective of their superficial ego)''.
How can they say ''I'' with the meaning of being an 'individual' if they are merely shallow minds who can only think in relationship with the current perspective.

The most disgusting experience with some of the people I have encountered is, the contrast; that some women whom I have met in person actually understand to a degree the idiocy of the System, they actually started about the subject as a beginning of a conversation themselves. How work is the ''cycle of life'' and there is nothing more to it; but that they actually encourage a rebellion or to fight those who are a part of the System (Moderns / the elite / immigrants).

[Although they exposed a lot of hypocrisy through behaviour contrary to what they said, to what they agreed with me, to what they said to desire - very strange to say one thing and eventually do another, or at a later moment say something reverse in contrast with what they proclaimed at a earlier point; accepting a part of this and denying the other of such..]

In contrast with the ''men'' / teenage boys, when I was still on school, who detested the idea of violence and conflict. I, as a child / teen dreamed of fighting for a noble cause and dying a heroic death, and talked about it with some others of my age back then - but they couldn't understand and said to me ''why? peace is great, why would you want to struggle or consider a chance of dying a ''young'' age''.
Or a man a few years older than I with whom I had to work, who got married a year ago, I asked if he ever wanted to have children; he said no, he wants to ''enjoy'' life (no responsibilities, partying) and he declared after I told him that I live in a small village, that he hates to live far from the people, the crowd and the noise; he can't stand the silence.

What kind of ''persons'' such men are, such cowards who want to live for partying and never even have ever considered the mere idea of nobility / heroism / struggle.
That the women whom I had met have a better understanding of masculinity than those cowardly Manchildren; maybe because they were not from the West in the first place, though you cannot escape globalism at any geographical location..
But of course I realize today that there is sadly nothing Noble to fight and possibly die for, or worth to preserve, to defend..


This I wrote on my Google+ page about what I experienced the 30th of December:

I just returned home again; I planned to go to the gym but it was already closed, too early (20:15 pm) for the norm, but it is due to the ''special days''.
Thus I decided, since I like it, to cycle a bit further, towards the supermarket and back.
The path I use is small without lights and on each side is a ditch; eventually I came near a small bridge which in order to cross, you have to slow down because you have to make a half a circle (left, right, slightly left and straight).
This part is more ''civilized'' regarding being populated by ''humans'', thus it also has on each side, no more ditches and pastures, but sidewalks and houses.

Right on the corner in front of the bridge stood 3 White guys, just hanging.
One of them said, while I passed slowly; ''kun je het zien?!' (can you see it)', on which I replied ''what did you say?, and thus he repeated it more loud as I was already passed them (still within physical distance) on which I replied; ''Yes, I can see it, very clear, I have very good eyes''. They didn't expect an actual literal reply, as it was meant to be with his tone of voice a ''fuck you, don't look at us'' remark.
And thus another yelled ''lekker he?!'' (good / nice / delicious hey), which doesn't make any sense in either language regarding this situation, it can be used as a '''hahaha, you fell on your ass'' remark or as it is actually meant, like eating something good - but it indicated that these imbeciles couldn't respond due to the 'surprise' since they felt they were ''intimidating'' and didn't expect a cynic-literal reply.

The three guys were around my age, all of them White trash, wore sportive clothes which indicates they are lazy, taller than me as are most Dutch men and two of them also broader not due to physical shape, thus strength giving shape; but because of their fatness.
Such imbeciles are cowards who only dare to throw random remarks at random individuals when they are with at least three guys.
It has happened before with three White guys a few years ago and as well with a group of 8-12 Moroccan / Turkish teens; to which I replied to the latter with much more vileness.

But I am getting sick by such games; I would like to just take ''rights'' in my own hands, without a Daddy State protecting the ''rights'' of everybody, equally. If you behave or talk very disrespectful and unnecessarily; you should accept the possible consequences which might be more than a simple exchange of words.

Eye for an eye is a Judean law which you can take literally, but also 'above-physical'; for example:
Person A hits Person B on the mouth, Person B loses a few teeth; Person B sues person A.
Person A has to pay reparations for Person B's endurance of his loss, for the replacement teeth and for his psychological suffering; all depending on how much Person B is going to play a victim; how much and in what regards the suffering is more than just physical.
And the outcome of Person A's punishment is depending as well on how much he will be going to play a victim himself in regards of shame, local public opinion and proclaiming of being the victim of a ''stupid act'' for which he had wished not to happen (merely because of the consequences).

Before the 'Eye for an Eye' law; the Old Testament had described cases of 'superior' individuals whom had by God invoked curses as a consequence for their enemies and told as a threat to others; that he (I don't remember the names and numbers) would kill ''67'' of them for shrinking merely a hair of his, and if not he himself, than his clan and descendants; and if not immediately, than a resentment carried through their memory-bloodline which will fulfil eventually his curse and threat to kill 'such a amount of them'.


My punishment would be relative to the person(s) / clan with whom I have a fight or argument which exposes their inferiority / superiority in relation with my standards. The most vile of human feces do not deserve to lose a eye as a ''just punishment'' after having taken one of mine, but rather, to my standards, should be contained, exterminated or enslaved as being less than cattle





''Life must be settled before death.''

It is part of a quote of Erich Kästner which I read in Sloterdijks' book.


Think about it; what are you, who are you? What is ''I''?
''I'' is flux, consisting of your genetic make-up, thus stable regarding your blood line and gender; but it is fluid regarding your memories, life experience, knowledge, understanding, genetic potential, environmental circumstances, the current culture and its collective memory.

As a child, certain likes and beliefs are what make the ''I''; when the average person grows up, (s)he confesses regarding his/her belief on a physical adult age, ''this is simply how I grew up, it is what my parents passed on to me''.
When I did a course of icon painting, I asked the lady who held the course why she is Christian, why not consider Islam, why to believe these traditions; she replied to me that she was ''simply raised as she is today''.

But even if you are a firm ''conservative'' and hold your ground against the flow of time and any change, the ''I'' is not the same as you were one year ago, or even a minute of difference.
Sure, there are stable characteristics; thus you are the same person within a hour while having three different strong emotions due to a recent event having an impact on you, or returning repressed memories, or letting your imagination takeover control over the present and passed reality - thus possibilities during specific interactions with the environment, community or an other person.
These emotions, the control over them, or letting them free, thus becomimg a slave to their causality; your awareness of these emotions and expression through verbal and body language also change over time. Althoug on many old faces you can see the engraved emotions on their foreheads, their character, their personality or a built emotional shield over time to protect themselves from their own past or specific interactions with other people.

Thus a person with for example an ''anger shield'' engraved on his/her face, possibly wants to protect him or herself from any joyful or saddening interaction with an other person, in order to repress his/her past, certain experiences they had with people they experienced as unpleasent or traumatic, or he/she is scared for possibilities of such.

The ''I'' is fluid yet stable, the ''I'' is mimicked and personal.
Years ago, when I still was a teenager, I went to the pet-store, when I left; and with ''I'', I mean that person who remains in my memory and is a past cumulative of the present I; I saw a seemingly drunk man in shorts and a blue shirt, talking to a parakeet or a parrot in a cage in front of the shop. I smirked but the man noticed me, and he turned towards me; friendly though. he said to me that ''mimicking is the greatest respect an other animal can give and show to you, and this applies also for humans, except if it is meant to humiliate you of course''.

I thought about it and agreed and I could trace this about mySelf, such as the use of certain words. All people, but each person to a certain degree, understanding and cohesion and expressing a 'inborn' yet always flowing style.
Think about those many White teenagers mimicking black fashion and dialect and adhering their ideal of thug life; most often unconsciously, their ''style'', or ''swag'' they put on themselves or has been implanted in their minds through the media, is a great tribute to black people, their behaviour tendencies and collective hive-mind.
Or girls mimicking the most vile whores presented on television as the ideal.


The Modern world, it is a world with copies of one and another, consisting of all those ''unique'', unique on the surface to compensate their shallow and hollow commonness regarding the mind, I-machines:'' I am born this way, I am what I am, I have always been this way, I have the right to, I want''.. All these ''I's''adhere to the current culture and ideology. Once you adhere an ideolgy which merely allows absolutist polarized ''Either / Or'' concepts, you lose yourSelf in the Current Common of Men, as is described by Heidegger.
The words you use and the friends you select all refer to the ideological pillars of filtered thoughts, thus that which you experienced personally, and read as second-hand knowledge, you will interpret as the ideology prescribes.
Instead of constantly adjusting your perspective on the world and your interactions, and increasing your awareness of yourSelf and the environment, and how the environment and the artificial extern such as the media influences you and the masses by integrating them within the Common, the Super-Ego (propaganda), you merely hold on to the ''One, so called Ever Lasting Truth''.
The self-evident such as biological differences between the genders and races are universal truths, and are specialized roles integrated within all cultures, except in this Modern Western society where the self-evident becomes a mystery and the mystery the self-evident, the man becomes a woman and the woman a man; choose whatever type of ''person'' you want to be, as long you do not judge and confront them as artificial and delusional and Common.

The person of today isn't an individual, but a copy. A I-machine produced by the media directed sexual selection, thus genetic filtering and educational hierarchy which shows the degree of State submission; correlated with one's economic prosperity, thus partner desirability, although Natural attraction says otherwise.
It is ''a downfall of the I in the surrender to the most common world.'' ~Sloterdijk


Back to the quote of Erich Kästner:

You live, you identify yourSelf as an individual; you may experience pleasure and suffering as it is part of life, take it not a blessing or a curse but as a challange.
Of how many organisms on this planet, you are the one who may experience the joy of a shared memory, the pain of a broken heart, the loss of another person's life, the fresh air on a mountain in contrast with the city, thus human, dirt.

Choose; you truly live one time, you are temporarliy healthy to challange the world and the current culture with all your physical and mental strength, you can't do anything after you are rotting away in the earth except your influential legacy through interaction, writing, terror; thus memory and reputation.

But in life, now, when you are breathing and feeling and understanding and always Becoming; think about it, you only live once, death lurks everywhere.
Within all the chaos of the Universe, you are existing and possibly, aware, Self-conscious.
How many organisms, including the dull and animalistic masses of mankind, can appreciate the beauty of a flower, or the love for a beautiful woman which exceeds mere sexual desire, but rather inspires and is seen as Divine, a recognition of all beauty as is seen by a high quality mind.


I hope my poem about a specific woman may clarify:

Distance in Death as in Life

Even in death,
That which I felt for you,
The feeling to sacrifice,
Shall be a legacy in life.

Our bodies will be buried,
Not just under the earth,
The distance between us,
Will be as during life.

The closest that we will be,
Is in poetry; dancing,
On a verse,
A memory..

We are dead,
Your beauty is rotting,
My mind has ended,
The world will go on..



The legacy is after life which is personal in my case but an other might identify with it; it won't be more than yearning or imagination. In this life, she lives, I live, we have encountered each other and shared a memory which means a lot to me. How great is it to be aware of this experience, how great is it that she exists and that I exist to have witnessed her beauty.

But besides this specific personal example; there are many others and special appreciative experiences you might as well identify with.


A part of another of my poem:

Oh Fortunate I Am,
that I have danced with Nature's personified beauty;
not the dance was enchanting,
but you being my discriminating first pick.


Thus I acknowledge, I took the chance to dance although I couldn't do it well; but it wasn't that much for the dance, but rather discriminating for her to be my first pick amongt those I could chose, although it would possibly mean nothing to them anyway. It does for me.
And the first line has to do with my identification with the Whirling Fate and determining coincidences which I encounter on my path, and of course my influnece from Carl Orff's composition.

Take your chances and keep in mind the costs and benefits - but reconsider if life is worth living behind a desk for mere Economic purpose, without a fight, without a personal goal not determined by any ideology, without having climbed the mountains by yourself instead having seen them on a Google search picture. Consider if each woman, or man, is worth to be your partner, or friend, consider if you want to die with dreams and without memories, consider if you want to take your life but without taking those with you who already took it from you by Modern-economic enslavement.
Life must be dealt with before your death and what does a reputation matter to you if it was a deed to preserve the lifes you care for or biological truth you wish to confront egalitarians with; death is death. Nobody is equal in death, your legacy is what remains and no collective, current judgment should shame you into silence.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:33 pm

Would you say that revenge has any importance beyond relieving one's anger, preventing future problems from the recipient of your revenge (assuming you would ever see him again) and/or, if not done secretly, as a deterrent against others who would consider wronging you?
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:44 pm

Stuart- wrote:
Would you say that revenge has any importance beyond relieving one's anger, preventing future problems from the recipient of your revenge (assuming you would ever see him again) and/or, if not done secretly, as a deterrent against others who would consider wronging you?

Not sure if that would be considered revenge but rather an ''early defense'' or to built up a reputation.
Revenge has more to do with honour after a personal humiliation or feeling of insult such as for example not taking threats seriously.

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I wrote this years ago on a Dutch forum; I tried to explain a tiresome self-proclaimed ''liberal'' why Breivik, or any other (future) person with equal intentions regarding safeguarding his people and heritage, is not a simple ''terrorist''. But the consequences regarding the interpretation on the intentions may differ regarding the person's philosophy.
During that time I wasn't aware of the Elite of Zion and Breivik being a (unconscious)hypocrite in regards of opposing the water while keeping the water tap on.


Breivik's offensive can be seen as a 'defense'.
A defense so you will not at a later date, in vain, do the same with possibly more deaths and less opportunity for people to awaken.
The attack is the best defense.
A disease you should also deal with early on before it will spread.

Those ''children'' would have lead Norway and the indigenous people further into the abyss.
You can't awaken a nation out of a deep politically correct sleep, by tapping on the shoulders.
Blood must flow to feel that your veins (culture, expression, norms and value) are draining.

Early aggression towards potential enemies, to not have to bother about the eliminated enemies in the future, whom would harm the biological / public interest, I call defense.
Although they might have had no guilt for their possible future actions, the threat was there. You do not need to be a politician with responsibility over the people, to exercise power on the people (teachers, journalists, ''scientists'' etc.).
Doing your duty today is doing your job.


If you are a ruler of a beautiful and peaceful kingdom, but there have been people who tried to overthrow your kingdom, would you not eliminate these potential enemies?
You know that there is a 'Trojan horse' hidden in your kingdom, and you know who they are.
The "Trojan horses" are at first glance seemingly innocent people, but you know they are recruited by your enemies who already had caused damage to your kingdom.
You know they will highly probable inflict more damage in the future to your kingdom and your people, since they will import "workers" from distant peoples. In reality, those "workers' are mercenaries paid and unintentionally supported by the money from your people.
Those "mercenaries" with masks on, will rape your people, murder at will, implant their ideology etc. So as a ruler of your kingdom, I assume that every ruler will eliminate his enemies "in the making".

Premature defense for not having to defend your kingdom in the future against "real" soldiers within your kingdom.
The attack is in this case the best defense.


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If you would punish a person, is it really revenge?
Or is a punishment simply a delayed revenge?
What use has your anger if you stumbled over a stone and got hurt.
What intention would that stone have if it wasn't placed on purpose by another human, it is simply a stone being a stone laying on this specific spot - what to blame but your own feet and eyes.
Can I take revenge upon a untrained dog who ate my bread after I had put it in front of its face and left the dog alone with it..? Or could I punish it to the extent of making the dog understand that it has its own food at another place from which he can eat.
The dog is not my superior or equal that he can eat with me from my own personal made meals, though I might appreciate its presence and loyalty and during possible circumstances I might share my own meals in order to survive, both me and the dog.


Revenge.. Your daughter got raped and the court gave a sentence which you deem unjust.
The System could be blamed for giving a maximum punishment in accordance with the crime; or the judges themselves who didn't gave the maximum penalty.
You feel aggrieved; can you punish the convict yourself with own measures and would you avenge your daughter by punishing the judges; or the State - but what to attack regarding the State, it has so many layers, so many indirect faces, so many masks..



Regarding taking measures in own hands:

There is also a option of giving the punishment meaning.
There might for example be individuals who have the intellect, understanding and experiences to give meaning to their own lives and that of their (possible future) families.
They might not want to live in accordance with the System, they accept its presence and the reality that there will always be a Law and an ideal to which the masses should live up to, but the ideal is not destined for such an individual.

This particular man, or woman, simply wants to leave his/her economic purpose within the System, to live for example on a mountain top with a self made wooden home; taking care for his own existence by hunting by himself and to grow vegetables; maybe a partner with the same views and Will.
What loss to society such an individual would be?
What claim has any government on each piece of land?
Why forbidding it..?
Well, to integrate all within the Common and to exclude any other possibilities, so that from an individual exception will not grow a community with shared ideals opposing that of the current System. We get that.

But there might be a few who will try anyway and see reality for what it is, that you cannot escape ''the West'' at all, not even in the East - but there are possible solutions which the System might accept as to live a less economical life.
But even then, it might be in accordance with governmental approved certificates.
This person might for example want to stay in another land which is not infected that much (yet) with Modern standards of ''normality''; by teaching a language for example.
The person might have a greater understanding of this language than most other native speakers, but hasn't any ''offical'', government approved certificate to teach, or simply as a ''evidence'' that he/she has full control over such a particular language.

This particular kind of individual might feel entrapped within the current system; he/she might feel as if it is a punishment; but a punishment for what.. What has he or she done to deserve such a punishment..?
This person might eventually give his/her punishment a meaning by means of counter-punishment to a certain degree, or as far as the circumstances allow. Or rather, becoming the actual criminal instead of remaining the victim..
O maybe such an individual simply wants to give back what it has been given, equally, as the current State prescribes.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:08 am

OhFortunae wrote:
Stuart- wrote:
Would you say that revenge has any importance beyond relieving one's anger, preventing future problems from the recipient of your revenge (assuming you would ever see him again) and/or, if not done secretly, as a deterrent against others who would consider wronging you?

Not sure if that would be considered revenge but rather an ''early defense'' or to built up a reputation.
Revenge has more to do with honour after a personal humiliation or feeling of insult such as for example not taking threats seriously.

Earlier you were speaking of three inferior men that were taunting you on the street. Let's say they did more than taunt and actually humiliated you. If others who knew you were watching, it would make sense to have revenge on those three, but if others weren't watching and you were sure you would never see the three again, then what purpose would revenge serve? If you're angry and you know that if you don't get revenge your anger will remain, then fine, but keep in mind, such an anger is not a trait you encourage in yourself, it's simply a need that must be dealt with, perhaps better sooner than later.

But, on the other hand, if you were wronged by an equal, and felt no anger, nor was not concerned for your reputation in that instance, but felt you must defend your honor, then we must look at what fundamental need is responsible for that. I suppose when one of the ideals that you live by, that one could say is a part of you, is a certain form of honor, then so as not to destroy that part of yourself you must defend it. Still, the incidence where you would get revenge to defend your honor is still based on a need.

Basically, honor is an admirable quality, but if it forces you to do things that have no other use than defending that honor, then you have made yourself weaker by having honor - or at least seemingly so. Not that I'm saying it's a bad decision to take that chance, but only that one must realize the full implications of what it means to have honor.
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PostSubject: Re: Life's Journey Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:16 pm

I know not to mess with others to the extent that the System would take away my remaining freedom; even though I might be humiliated - it depends on the degree and what to lose and on my future desires. If others I know see me or not I care little about, it is personal.
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