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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:19 pm

Second that.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:30 pm

Satyr wrote:
Maybe a clarification should be made between awe and aesthetic appreciation.

The rare can cause awe, even if it is ugly.

Why not a spontaneous appreciation of what is ugly?
Not to consider the ugly beautiful, but to appreciate the ugly "for its own sake,"  not for your own.

I don't think the body allows for a spontaneous appreciation of the ugly. It instinctively turns away and protects itself from getting too close. I.e. the immediate compulsion to emphasize with the physiology of an uglier person immediately raises the defenses of your own body. Talking to those that are not one's "kind" in a gracious and polite manner but without committing yourself to them.

Aesthetic appreciation follows from awe and it can quickly turn degenerate or in the case of certain religious types the initial awe is slowly made into something it never was to begin with by a nature that sublimates all its intelligence to serve the beautiful impression. It's almost like a bad feedback loop in which religious types devote all their intelligence to serving this impression which produces other impression/visions which in turn gives him further "proof" of his belief in the first impression. Which all reflects the nature of the observer, or rather how healthy his nature was to begin with. The "danger" is that when these types devote all their intelligence to serving the beautiful impression(often becoming celibate), they become incredibly clever and good at winning over those people that live off their "quick love" for beautiful impressions. The "chaste" visions of these religious types then reinterpret the meaning of a healthy body(and its purpose and place) in a "healthy" society. You gotta love all those Apollonian-esque statues of Christ that fill those "beautiful" Catholic cathedrals.... And all this reworking of beauty is brought to Northern European cultures(with their own unique polytheism) and the whole thing becomes one big clusterfuck.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:40 pm

Quote :
Origin of the beautiful and ugly.'28-Biological value of the
beautiful and the ugly.- That which is instinctively repugnant to
us, aesthetically, is proved by mankind's longest experience to be
harmful, dangerous, worthy of suspicion: the suddenly vocal
aesthetic instinct (e.g., in disgust) contains a judgment. To this
extent the beautiful stands within the general category of the
biological values of what is useful, beneficent, life-enhancing-but
in such a way that a host of stimuli that are only distantly associated
with, and remind us only faintly of, useful things and states give
us the feeling of the beautiful, i.e., of the increase of the feeling
of power (-not merely things, therefore, but also the sensations
that accompany such things, or symbols of them).

Thus the beautiful and the ugly are recognized as relative
to our most fundamental values of preservation. It is senseless
to want to posit anything as beautiful or ugly apart from this. The
beautiful exists just as little as does the good, or the true. In every
case it is a question of the conditions of preservation of a certain
type of man: thus the herd man will experience the value feeling
of the beautiful in the presence of different things than will the
exceptional or over-man.

It is the perspective of the foreground, which concerns itself
only with immediate consequences, from which the value of the
beautiful (also of the good, also of the true) arises.

All instinctive judgments are shortsighted in regard to the
chain of consequences: they advise what is to be done immediately.
The understanding is essentially a brake upon immediate reactions
on the basis of instinctive judgments: it retards, it considers, it
looks further along the chain of consequences.

Judgments concerning beauty and ugliness are shortsighted
(-they are always opposed by the understanding-) but persuasive
in the highest degree; they appeal to our instincts where
they decide most quickly and pronounce their Yes and No before
the understanding can speak.

The most habitual affirmations of beauty excite and stimulate
each other; once the aesthetic drive is at work, a whole host of
other perfections, originating elsewhere, crystallize around "the
particular instance of beauty." It is not possible to remain objective,
or to suspend the interpretive, additive, interpolating, poetizing
power (-the latter is the forging of the chain of affirmations of
beauty). The sight of a "beautiful woman"-

Thus 1. the judgment of beauty is shortsighted, it sees only
the immediate consequences;

2. it lavishes upon the object that inspires it a magic conditioned
by the association of various beauty judgments-that are
quite alien to the nature of that object. To experience a thing as
beautiful means: to experience it necessarily wrongly-(which,
incidentally, is why marriage for love is, from the point of view of
society, the most unreasonable kind of marriage).
N - WTP 804

I don't think Nietzsche ever even calls man the more beautiful sex like schopenhauer either.... He only says somewhere to the effect that a mind can be more beautiful than the most beautiful body(and no reference to this being a man or woman's body) and that the "most beautiful type" is Caesar.  But it begs the question what type of bodies(or history of bodies) give rise to these "types"
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:17 pm



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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Sun May 08, 2016 8:03 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:38 am

Symmetry = order.
For an organism dependent on order, in a disordering cosmos, symmetry is beautiful, as it indicates potential in relation to its own.
Genetically inherited symmetry indicates past excess of energies - order in flux requires effort/energy to sustain itself - superior symmetry is evidence that excess of energies were available to attain higher order. Here order is manifested past, which immediate circumstances will manifest later in space/time.


Proportionality = symmetry incorporating functionality into its organization.
Survival, organizing organs in for specialized survival strategies imposes a structure of functionality.
Beauty here indicates potential for reproduction - proportionality of health, functionality within environment.


Mind = brain symmetry manifesting in personality.
Charm, wit, creativity, a calm demeanour, all expressions of an ordered brain, and of energy excess.
Brain symmetry is attractive as hidden potential - flexibility, ability to respond to the unexpected.


Sublime = all matter/energy is order.
A inspiring scene, an ephemeral symmetry, such as a bubble, light playing on water, are all proportions of symmetry full of potential.
The delicacy of a symmetrical phenomenon inspirational to an organism aware of its own vulnerability and ordering.
The play of patterns with the sense organs, particularly where no need/desire is present, is the objectification of potential.
Man, and only hu-man, with his broader deeper perceptual-event-horizon, and to attain the third level of cognition (third level of psychological intentional) can appreciate symmetry, order, and the potentials they imply, from a detached point of view.


In short, underlying all appreciation of symmetry, proportionality, existence (inter)acting is the appreciation of a congruity of patterns for patterns indicating potential: personal potential, sexual/reproductive potential, existential potential.
Another word for potential is probability.
Probability is the limitation of possibility, in other words ORDER.
Man is attracted to anything that promises higher probability, indicated higher probability, is evidence of higher probability.
Symmetry, proportionality, patterns (inter)acting in space/time.

Detachment being a sign of excess energies.
Nihilism is stuck there, due to excess energies provided to the organism, with minimal effort on its part.
Prolonging this artificially maintained condition leads to permanent, willful, detachment. The mind is absorbed by navel-gazing, narcissism, contemplating itself and existence from the vantage point of a god, quickly becoming childish: wanting to play forever, desperate to remain naive and innocent fore a lifetime, focused only on pleasure, or distraction, on fantasy; masturbating physically and mentally, emotionally. Setting up clever games to incorporate other children into fantasy play.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:42 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:01 pm

Beauty is the physical (real/actual) manifestation of Superior (intelligent) breeding choices, compromised between males and females (a deal/transaction), that ultimately represents a risk (sex). Beauty is the result of placing good and successful bets, Trust, between men and women and forming a cooperation (Family/Aristocracy/Alliances/Society). Those who continue to make erroneous, bad bets, loss out, and manifest as ugliness and repugnance.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:03 pm

The danger of trend-setting rationalism is over-exactness and having to fight off false body-shaming, as was the case with Canadian Ms. World Siera Bearchell, accused of being fat, and 'XL' as unfit. From here, then naturally begins, the 'beauty is more than…', and ends in the imbalance of postmodern relativism…

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:09 pm

Saw her yesterday on the Miss universe contest...and she was stunning.
Compared to the other girls she looked like a racehorse.

She's got meat in all the right places.


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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:21 pm

Lyssa wrote:
The danger of trend-setting rationalism is over-exactness and having to fight off false body-shaming, as was the case with Canadian Ms. World Siera Bearchell, accused of being fat, and 'XL' as unfit. From here, then naturally begins, the 'beauty is more than…', and ends in the imbalance of postmodern relativism…

Trying to chisel away at a woman's body until it's "perfect" is a fool's errand. Exactness will always be fleeting. The whole beauty industry is sick and a sign of the times.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:38 pm

A fine line between order, expressed as symmetry, and proportionality, expressed by function.

The ordering organism must survive within a fluctuating cosmos, and therefore it makes compromises for the sake of functionality.
This sacrifice is the compromise made to change, and the presence of chaos.  

If it were a matter of achieving perfect order, or the absolute, an organism, like matter would settles on a fluid sphere, but then it would be as fragile and ephemeral as a soap bubble.
Functionality is the compromises made to Flux.
Therefore beauty is characterized by symmetry incorporating functionality as proportionality.

This is demonstrated by the fitness triggers of body/waist proportions, as well as the ration between fat, and mass, which in women, in particular, may trigger a end to the menstrual cycle or difficulties ion conception.
It's, as if, nature has provided a safety-switch making fertility more difficult as the proportionality does outside certain functional relationships.

With males this does not seem to be the case because the proportionality switch is the female's sexual choice, her judgment, based on her genetic attractions, to certain male body proportions, and may also include, depending no the sophistication of the female, a appreciation of the intangible symmetry of brain, expressed through mind.
The male must be both physically and mentally/psychologically symmetrical, and proportional.
This symmetry/proportion is displayed in his movement, and flexibility of mind, his creativity, also expressed in humour and by an overall demeanour, a consistent state of mind.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:02 pm

Order is a relationships of patterns with each other and in relation to an infinitely receding central point.
The balance between patterns, as the relationship of rhythm with aggregate energy will find an infinitely receding point in space time as the receding centre of this relationship, or its focal point, where the relative patterns achieve a balance of distance and force - attraction/repulsion finding a near perfect, fluctuating, equilibrium.

This receding central point in space/time, is the singularity's one/point, and the patterns relating create an attraction/repulsion field of effect, which is the emergent singularity's perceptual-event-horizon.
To an external observer, one not part of the relationship, the effect will be that of a boundary, taking shape, as an extension of the congruent pattern's relating and their combined field of effect.
This is what we call form.

Geometry is the study of these relationships and their noetic possibilities, within two, three, four, dimensional space - or within a noetic space, that excludes possibilities (dimensions) to create clear and simple relationships of  theoretical/noetic 'points' in space/time and how they relate to each other, drawing 'lines' representing their shortest distance of possibility.

Shape is a noetic construct representing the observer's relationship to the (inter)active patterns. Their relationship extending as a field of attraction/repulsion representation their relating, congruent, aggregate energy, interpreted as a boundary encompassing space/time, or possibilities, by excluding others.
With geometry the relationships are abstracted into mental models, with clear and distinct points and lines.
Fluidity is imploded into static form, and then manipulated to exclude one, two, or more dimensions, giving us two-dimensional shapes (square, triangle, circle...) or three-dimensional shapes (cube, sphere, prism....)

Organically the absence of absolutes means these relationships must take form within a fluid, (inter)active cosmos, achieving a higher or lower degree of symmetry, and necessarily incorporating functionality as a compromise made to Flux.
Attraction is drawn to symmetry of body parts, of organs, and how they relate, their functionality within a particular environment, and in relation to an evolved method of self-preservation, and growth, is what is appreciate as organic proportions, exhibiting fitness and health and most of all resistance to parasites and dis-eases.
This is called beauty.
Any degree of symmetry, above the average, displays a inherited resistance to cosmic flux, and proportionality reveals reproductive and resistance, to it, potential.
Potentials being an expression of encompassing space/time possibility, indicated by the field of attraction/repulsion - its field of effect  

An organism, dependent on order, is attracted to superior degrees of order, and potentials.

The physical and the metaphysical merge.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:48 pm

Intelligence evolves in relation to physical symmetry/proportionality, as a compensating, and accentuating development of the nervous system, particularly the brain, that focuses the organisms energies to multiply its aggregate force.
Intelligent is a multiplier of already present symmetry, other accentuating what already exists, or compensating for a deficiency, in relation to others.

In this context proportionality takes the form of balance, displayed as graceful movement, control of the body, a controlled demeanour that may express itself in social organisms as self-confidence, tolerance, easy going attitude, mental flexibility, humour, an innate ability to read and to adjust self and other to the circumstances, and all participating in what we call charisma.
Proportionality of mind expressing a proportionality of reactivity to stimuli - absence of hyperbole, controlled and measured , able to adapt to fluid circumstances.

Putting the other at ease, gaining trust, being amicable are all part of reading (empathy) and controlling one's reaction to other (sympathy) - harmonizing self to other (mirroring).
The other perceives this as himself reflected back, producing the sense of ease this recognition of self in other produces.
Prolonged contact, such as with long-term friendships and erotic relationships, the effect is one of character harmonization.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:56 am

Excerpt:

What is more beautiful than something which requires much skill, talent, practice and grace? Beauty is the danger within the demonstration - all the unseen danger which has yet to come and could, or the danger which had been conquered before in order that the skill may manifest. Do we feel horrified when we watch a man cross a rope across two skyscrapers because he may fall, or that we insert ourselves into his position and from our lack of skill imagine that we may die? (Do people wail during the rapture for the presence of the Lord or for what is to come next?) Do we see the talent of a man's skillful placing of knives between his fingers because of what actually happens or the risk of that which might happen? Beauty, then, is a demonstration of (the often maligned as being "brutish") power. It is horrific because of its beauty, that we fail to live up to. Even the Bible, if seen from a non-theist manner, demonstrates God like this - that He is terrific in His Goodness and that He is Beautiful, so much so that to behold Him would cause you to tremble in fear and humility. Have you ever experienced something astoundingly beautiful, some skillful, nigh-supernatural and otherworldly phenomenon, judging it for that which it balances with grace, and then it suddenly seeks to balance you - and then horror overcome you as a result? For example, watching a fighter jet wreak destruction on an enemy which you have the deepest pits of hatred for, with its automatic canon. It is measuring out your justice and you suddenly develop a heavy appreciation for it. But, when it turns against you - would that not be horrific? Another example is if you are watching a beautiful woman and only wish to behold her beauty without being seen - only for her to suddenly turn and lay her eyes upon you. As an even more adolescent version, when you were a child in class and watched as the teacher utilized power to call upon students to answer questions - is there not a beauty and grace to it? A momentary vacuum of lukewarmness, where hierarchy manifests. You sigh in relief that you are not called upon at first, but then you are and experience the terror? In this way, beauty is power.

So, then, if beauty is power - how can this be just? Cannot power be abused? It often is, as someone oversteps their bounds and begins to take pride in something they do not deserve to. They cease to act with grace and then cause the resentment of others.* Balance and sensitivity to the world, to avoid such mishaps, is necessary.



*off topic: Is it the case the only the Abrahamist religions conceive of a world which is infinite, or accompanied by a plentiful, hot/cold afterlife? The irony being that God seeks to separate wheat from chaff, and He sets chaff to eternal hell fire and good to eternal heaven - but still says there are hierarchies within each. That is, this concern is only ethically valid in a world which is not zero-sum. Instead of saying the world is zero-sum, they say the afterlife is... The bible saying God put Eternity in our hearts... The "real fruits" of life are afterward, where it is zero-sum.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Beauty? Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:26 am

The way I see it is as the appreciation of potential, within order.

What do we find beautiful?
The symmetrical, as potential higher order.
The proportional, as potential physical reproduction.
The inspirational, as unknown potential, undiscovered potential, as possibility.
We find music beautiful, as sonar symmetry, expressing our own becoming.
We find charm beautiful as higher intellectual order; the promise of something as yet unknown.

Whatever expands or adds to our own possibilities, as potential becoming, is what is beautiful.





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