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 Surrender and Sexual Predation

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:10 pm

It takes a woman to bring out that interest, in him....suddenly he cares.
The student wants to be cultivated by another.
How sweet.

And to breed red hair into a gene pool, if red hair is what you value, you take some random black guy, and mate him with an oriental, 'cause they might have something comparable to offer.
But I forget...he never said any of this, or he never meant it in that way....windmills, for this old cranky Don Quixote.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:15 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Satyr's thinking that way of you perhaps has something to do with fifi saying, her morals come from her respect/love for her ancestry, which is what Apaosha had said too, and to which you asked him to f--- his sister, and yet, you seem to raise no questions on the value of such a valuing with regards to fifi...

I didn't tell Apaosha to fuck his sister because he respects and loves his ancestry. I told him to fuck his sister because he said he wants to replicate his genetic material as closely as possible.

Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would Apaosha want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.


Quote :
Every so often I say something ridiculous. I'm far from perfect.

So why does Satyr become unpleasant when he points out your imperfections?

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:17 pm

Lyssa wrote:


So why does Satyr become unpleasant when he points out your imperfections?
Because being ploughed by a maiden is not the same as being ploughed by an old goat.

The pattern is fascinating.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:18 pm

Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:21 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.


Yet, its not your ancestry in question. It does not matter what kind of ancestry.

Its about the PRIDE in your ancestry from which you derive your values, and evaluating value-standards on that pride, which Mo questioned.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:21 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.



Why should I be responsible when someone else pukes out of their face, at me?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:23 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.
Really?
So, the mix that produced the wonder which is you should not be preserved?

We'll mix it back into the batter and hope something wonderful will rise, quite by accident.

Do you know why the ashkenazi Jews produced so many Nobel prize winner, babes?
Do you have a clue?

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:24 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.




You project your own heat.

Follow your own advice, and re-read what I said.


No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:25 pm

Mo wrote:
Why should I be responsible when someone else pukes out of their face, at me?

Because you claimed you wanted to be Benefitted.

Satyr has never misled or wasted anyone's time.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:26 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Why should I be responsible when someone else pukes out of their face, at me?

Because you claimed you wanted to be Benefitted.

Satyr has never misled or wasted anyone's time.
I have...my own.

Garbage in....Garbage out.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:29 pm

The idea that knowledge should be the product of a pleasant process, no trials, no tests...  calling it "puke" - is already a sign of hedonism.

Respect me first, then I will learn.

Who says that to Reality, the greatest teacher?

Nietzsche wrote:
"To refrain from mutual injury, mutual violence, mutual exploitation, to equate one’s own will with that of another: this may in a certain rough sense become good manners between individuals if the conditions for it are present (namely if their strength and value standards are infact similar and they both belong to one body). As soon as there is a desire to take this principle further, however, and if possible even as thefundamental principle of society, it at once reveals itself for what it is: as the will to the denial of life, as the principle of dissolution and decay. One has to think this matter thoroughly through to the bottom and resist all sentimental weakness: life itself isessentially appropriation, injury, overpowering of the strange and weaker, suppression, severity, imposition of one’s own forms, incorporation and, at the least and milder, exploitation–but why should one always have to employ precisely those words which have from of old been stamped with a slanderous intention?" [BGE, 259]

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:38 pm

Lyssa wrote:
No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:39 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.

No, I attributed Double-standards to you.

If not, then it would have to be non-attentive reading wrt. fifi.

Either way, that was what Satyr was getting at.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:43 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.




You project your own heat.

Follow your own advice, and re-read what I said.


No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

It is NOT what I was doing.
Do not equate ancestry to racial lineage.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:43 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Her morals come from her respect/love for her ancestry, which is what Apaosha had said too, and to which you asked him to f--- his sister,

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.

About double standards:
Where phoneutria's morals come from, and how they're justified, isn't the topic of the thread. When I talked with apaosha, it was. On top of that, she said that a few hours ago.

Give your head a shake.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:45 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.




You project your own heat.

Follow your own advice, and re-read what I said.


No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

It is NOT what I was doing.
Do not equate ancestry to racial lineage.


Do NOT INJECT and mislead with unnecessary words like racial lineage, etc.

Mo UNDERSTANDS Me.

He knows what I am talking about. The process of deriving value-standards simply from the pride of one's ancestry.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:48 pm

to replicate one's genes is to attempt racial purity
to honor one's ancestry is to respect their values

thus, fuck your sister to create a close copy of yourself

Mo undesstands you, but do you understand mo?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:49 pm

I love this...the gene/meme divide.

Garcon!!
Another round of the same shallowness.

Yes, you heard me...more immediate gratification, just for the fuck of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:52 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Her morals come from her respect/love for her ancestry, which is what Apaosha had said too, and to which you asked him to f--- his sister,

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.

No, and repeating isn't going to make it true.
Think about it when you are calmer.


Quote :
About double standards:
Where phoneutria's morals come from, and how they're justified, isn't the topic of the thread. When I talked with apaosha, it was. On top of that, she said that a few hours ago.

Give your head a shake.

HAA

Or I'll just ruffle yours,, soft and brown...

The topic of both threads are about the basis of value-standards,,, apaosha in the context of race, fifi in the context of taste.

If that's the attitude you are going to adopt, constricting yourself like that, you are going to miss on the broader vantage and not be benefitted.

Just saying.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:54 pm

phoneutria wrote:
to replicate one's genes is to attempt racial purity

The attempt to racial purity is because he takes pride in his ancestry.


Quote :
Mo undesstands you,

He does.

Quote :
but do you understand mo?

Yes, thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:57 pm

gtg, pardon.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:57 pm

Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.
Really?
So, the mix that produced the wonder which is you should not be preserved?

We'll mix it back into the batter and hope something wonderful will rise, quite by accident.

Do you know why the ashkenazi Jews produced so many Nobel prize winner, babes?
Do you have a clue?

The mix that is me is not reproducible, dear. It can't be preserved.
I am not a lab experiment, I'm a product of a stochastic process.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:06 pm

Lyssa wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
to replicate one's genes is to attempt racial purity

The attempt to racial purity is because he takes pride in his ancestry.

We know that. In his own way it is how he wants to ho or his ancestry.
it is not my way.
What apaosha proposed and what I propose are not the same thing. Same objective, different approach. My concern is purely memetic, his genetic/memetic.

Thus, you can drop you accusation of a double standard. It makes no sense for you to say that mo should apply "fuck your sister" hyperbole to me. I am not an advocate of genetic purity.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:10 pm

Some see further back than their shallow graves.
They do not take credit for their ancestors, if they are not ashamed of them, but stand in humility before their deeds, wanting to add to them or, at the very least, wanting not to blemish their memory by lowering themselves to beneath their standards, reverting to a damn manimal, and feeling proud of it.
But do not let your conscience be burdened dear.

Race, dear, is ancestry beyond the immediate family, just as contentment is pleasure beyond the ephemeral orgasm.
The difference is one of degree...temporal degree, dimensional...as in shallow or deep perceptual-event-horizon.

You, dear, divide body and mind, gene and meme....pleasure from need, and from consequence....values from ancestry in the deeper sense.
As if things simply emerge accidentally, out of nothingness.

You close yourself in a time box, and turn into a beast.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:19 pm

Satyr, dear, I have no race. I am a mongrel. My blood line is untraceable. It is the same with the large majority of the population where I come from. Even if I could find out what percentages of each part composed me, I could not find another like me to mate with, and even if I did, what would come of us would be something else entirely. I am a product of the randomness that you loathe.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:23 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Satyr, dear, I have no race. I am a mongrel. My blood line is untraceable.  It is the same with the large majority of the population where I come from. Even if I could find out what percentages of each part composed me, I could not find another like me to mate with, and even if I did, what would come of us would be something else entirely. I am a product of the randomness that you loathe.
No shit!

I know of Brazil, dear.

Unfortunately you carry the burden of that mixed inheritance, as a limitation in potential.
Does not mean you cannot cultivate it to its highest, or you cannot choose which meme you will give yourself to.

The Greeks and the Jews seeded....you have a choice, in the west, which one will impregnate your spirit.
I, personally, do not care.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:27 pm

A pure inheritance is a limitation.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:53 pm

Lyssa,

Mo wrote:
When I ask apaosha what he values, his response is that he values himself and his genetic heritage. ---And that’s a fine answer, as far as it goes. But when you ask him what valuable qualities he finds embodied in himself and his past, he won't say; his only response is, "It's personal". People proud of themselves and their past have spent time reflecting on the values embodied in their past, and they are not afraid to stand by those in conversation with others.
...
Do you value yourself simply because you were born? Or your ancestors, simply because they were born? I am a combination of some strengths, and some flaws. I see both, in my past. I look at my weaknesses as an opportunity and a challenge, and I'm grateful for that. What would be the point of things if everything were already given to you? To say that I value myself and my past is NOT to say that I was born a god, perfect in every way.
...
If you value your past simply because it is your past, without recognizing the valuable qualities embodied in your past, as well as the flaws, then that entire pride you feel is an emotional response. If there's something wrong with that, then it's a flaw that I'm admitting of myself, because I would feel it in the case of any hypothetical child that I would have.

But that doesn’t stop me from reflecting on my past, and recognizing both the good and the bad, because how else would I know thyself.

I was speaking from a version of the Euthyphro dilemma... (Do you know it?)
If someone says, "X is valuable because God says so" ---I'll ruin that, and them. Likewise,
If someone says, "X is valuable because Ancestors say so" ---The same problem.

Your ancestors did NOT value what they did for no reason. If ANYBODY values something for no reason, then there's no reason to care what they value. Respecting your ancestry means digging into why they thought what they did---the reasons behind it. And I would present the same problem to phoneutria, or anyone else. But it's not the topic of the thread, (you would know that), and thinking that I'm not willing to criticize her....well, you're ignorant.



I'll be the one benefiting you, here.



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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 7:19 am

phonee wrote:
A pure inheritance is a limitation.
No, dear....a pure inheritance is a non-diluted manifestation of a past, which includes a near-extinction.
Dear the Black Plague, according to Mencken, explains the Renaissance...and the Jewish mind is explained by inbreeding and a tradition that married the rich man's daughter with the Rabbi (wealth and scholarship), and Hitler cleansed the Jews of their unhealthy elements...and so the Caucasian supremacy is a product of the near extinction they had to endure.

Dear, natural selection, and specialization, if you really think about it, is based no some level of inbreeding.
A species is a population breeding within limitations.

Races, dear, are the result of genetic isolation, over time...meaning, inbreeding.
Mixing is chaos, dear. Randomness is this confusion of infinite possibilities unrestricted by order.
And not a brother banging his sister, dear.

Think before you speak.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 10:58 am

brown-haired blue-eyed Mo wrote:
Lyssa,

Mo wrote:
When I ask apaosha what he values, his response is that he values himself and his genetic heritage. ---And that’s a fine answer, as far as it goes. But when you ask him what valuable qualities he finds embodied in himself and his past, he won't say; his only response is, "It's personal". People proud of themselves and their past have spent time reflecting on the values embodied in their past, and they are not afraid to stand by those in conversation with others.
...
Do you value yourself simply because you were born? Or your ancestors, simply because they were born? I am a combination of some strengths, and some flaws. I see both, in my past. I look at my weaknesses as an opportunity and a challenge, and I'm grateful for that. What would be the point of things if everything were already given to you? To say that I value myself and my past is NOT to say that I was born a god, perfect in every way.
...
If you value your past simply because it is your past, without recognizing the valuable qualities embodied in your past, as well as the flaws, then that entire pride you feel is an emotional response. If there's something wrong with that, then it's a flaw that I'm admitting of myself, because I would feel it in the case of any hypothetical child that I would have.

But that doesn’t stop me from reflecting on my past, and recognizing both the good and the bad, because how else would I know thyself.

I was speaking from a version of the Euthyphro dilemma... (Do you know it?)
If someone says, "X is valuable because God says so" ---I'll ruin that, and them. Likewise,
If someone says, "X is valuable because Ancestors say so" ---The same problem.

Your ancestors did NOT value what they did for no reason. If ANYBODY values something for no reason, then there's no reason to care what they value. Respecting your ancestry means digging into why they thought what they did---the reasons behind it.


Mo,

I agree with that last line, and Apaosha said he took pride in his ancestry for whatever reason or values that he wished not to share with you of course; which is not the same as his saying "because ancestors say so" - he never said that. That would be a false claim.


Quote :
And I would present the same problem to phoneutria, or anyone else. But it's not the topic of the thread, (you would know that),

You can take many perspectives on a subject. The frame I'm seeing it from is the common theme of morality and aesthetics.
Apaosha said the morality behind his racial aesthetics [what he considers superior/inferior] derived from the pride in his ancestry.
Fifi said, her aesthetics does not draw on moral values from institutions, but pride in her ancestry.

The context of deriving value stds. is common enough from my p.o.v. I'm sure you can see how it appears to me.


Quote :
and thinking that I'm not willing to criticize her....well, you're ignorant.

What? No. I'm not petty.

I was "suggesting" not thinking that "maybe" why Satyr thought the way he did - that you come off as someone who is more receptive to ideas when presented by a female than a male... had its reasonable validity when under a similar context there is a certain logic you employ which you do not with the other.
The willingness of your objectivity is not in question, but your capacity - i.e. in light of how Satyr thinks from his observations of you - your degree of receptivity (the clarity of understanding ideas) being more easily attuned to a female than a male.

This whole thing started because you said you never wanted to be like Satyr.

Satyr's been on your case since March I think - regarding "just because" or "spontaneous evolution"...
Its going to be the beginning of June now, and you haven't made a single post to clarify you position or your views or anything on the subject.

I understand that you have principles and do not wish to share your views with just anyone, but I hope you can appreciate how you must appear to him then.
As someone who hides, obfuscates, does escapisms, etc.

Do you honestly believe Satyr wants to put you down simply out of personal animosity? Just ego for ego's sake?

I don't know how many people there are in this world, who would even care to point out our errors or simply make us question ourselves and our assumptions - which I think is what he was/is doing with you.

Its not your 'personhood' that he keeps going after, but the "scientific" viability of the process you favour.

How "scientific" [if we are to do objective philosophy and not just come here to clink glasses over opinions], how "scientific" is the procedure you adopt for the aim or goal you wish to accomplish?

What are the probabilities and logical astuteness involved in believing random mixing can on the off-chance produce an unexpected genius, or the line towards a genius...
Data?

These are questions you could have, or still could attempt to answer.

My own attitude is, you don't have to be like Satyr, be better than him, strive to be so.

There's no point in saying you never want to be like Satyr without you explaining why you do not want to be so. You see how it appears to him? Like from March-May, there's no clarification or anything from you, and he begins to believe you are more receptive to absorbing ideas from 'a' fifi, then someone like him... who you do not appear to consider after his constant asking at you.

Anyway, that's what I make of the whole issue.

I hope there will be a fresh start.

A sincere engagement in ideas.


Quote :
I'll be the one benefiting you, here.

Mo, even if you didn't give me anything, you'd still benefit me, and you do.

I have a very black heart. And the black is always absorbing.

cheers.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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