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 Surrender and Sexual Predation

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:10 pm

It takes a woman to bring out that interest, in him....suddenly he cares.
The student wants to be cultivated by another.
How sweet.

And to breed red hair into a gene pool, if red hair is what you value, you take some random black guy, and mate him with an oriental, 'cause they might have something comparable to offer.
But I forget...he never said any of this, or he never meant it in that way....windmills, for this old cranky Don Quixote.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:15 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Satyr's thinking that way of you perhaps has something to do with fifi saying, her morals come from her respect/love for her ancestry, which is what Apaosha had said too, and to which you asked him to f--- his sister, and yet, you seem to raise no questions on the value of such a valuing with regards to fifi...

I didn't tell Apaosha to fuck his sister because he respects and loves his ancestry. I told him to fuck his sister because he said he wants to replicate his genetic material as closely as possible.

Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would Apaosha want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.


Quote :
Every so often I say something ridiculous. I'm far from perfect.

So why does Satyr become unpleasant when he points out your imperfections?

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:17 pm

Lyssa wrote:


So why does Satyr become unpleasant when he points out your imperfections?
Because being ploughed by a maiden is not the same as being ploughed by an old goat.

The pattern is fascinating.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:18 pm

Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:21 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.


Yet, its not your ancestry in question. It does not matter what kind of ancestry.

Its about the PRIDE in your ancestry from which you derive your values, and evaluating value-standards on that pride, which Mo questioned.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:21 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.



Why should I be responsible when someone else pukes out of their face, at me?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:23 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.
Really?
So, the mix that produced the wonder which is you should not be preserved?

We'll mix it back into the batter and hope something wonderful will rise, quite by accident.

Do you know why the ashkenazi Jews produced so many Nobel prize winner, babes?
Do you have a clue?

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:24 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.




You project your own heat.

Follow your own advice, and re-read what I said.


No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:25 pm

Mo wrote:
Why should I be responsible when someone else pukes out of their face, at me?

Because you claimed you wanted to be Benefitted.

Satyr has never misled or wasted anyone's time.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:26 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Why should I be responsible when someone else pukes out of their face, at me?

Because you claimed you wanted to be Benefitted.

Satyr has never misled or wasted anyone's time.
I have...my own.

Garbage in....Garbage out.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:29 pm

The idea that knowledge should be the product of a pleasant process, no trials, no tests...  calling it "puke" - is already a sign of hedonism.

Respect me first, then I will learn.

Who says that to Reality, the greatest teacher?

Nietzsche wrote:
"To refrain from mutual injury, mutual violence, mutual exploitation, to equate one’s own will with that of another: this may in a certain rough sense become good manners between individuals if the conditions for it are present (namely if their strength and value standards are infact similar and they both belong to one body). As soon as there is a desire to take this principle further, however, and if possible even as thefundamental principle of society, it at once reveals itself for what it is: as the will to the denial of life, as the principle of dissolution and decay. One has to think this matter thoroughly through to the bottom and resist all sentimental weakness: life itself isessentially appropriation, injury, overpowering of the strange and weaker, suppression, severity, imposition of one’s own forms, incorporation and, at the least and milder, exploitation–but why should one always have to employ precisely those words which have from of old been stamped with a slanderous intention?" [BGE, 259]

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:38 pm

Lyssa wrote:
No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:39 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.

No, I attributed Double-standards to you.

If not, then it would have to be non-attentive reading wrt. fifi.

Either way, that was what Satyr was getting at.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:43 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.




You project your own heat.

Follow your own advice, and re-read what I said.


No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

It is NOT what I was doing.
Do not equate ancestry to racial lineage.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:43 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Her morals come from her respect/love for her ancestry, which is what Apaosha had said too, and to which you asked him to f--- his sister,

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.

About double standards:
Where phoneutria's morals come from, and how they're justified, isn't the topic of the thread. When I talked with apaosha, it was. On top of that, she said that a few hours ago.

Give your head a shake.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:45 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Word games.

And what does that amount to?

Why would he want to replicate that?

Its because he held pride in his ancestry as the source of his values, which is what you went after.

Why don't you go and read "Chatbox Trivialities", where all of that happened. Read the thread, again, and then again. You have a head of steam, for some reason, and you're blowing smoke with no substance.

If you think I attacked him for having pride in his ancestry, you're full of shit. If you are going to accuse me attacking him for it, then you had better justify what you let come out of your face.




You project your own heat.

Follow your own advice, and re-read what I said.


No, I did not claim you attacked him for having pride, but you attacked him for deriving value-standards simply from having pride in one's ancestry, which is what fifi too was doing.

It is NOT what I was doing.
Do not equate ancestry to racial lineage.


Do NOT INJECT and mislead with unnecessary words like racial lineage, etc.

Mo UNDERSTANDS Me.

He knows what I am talking about. The process of deriving value-standards simply from the pride of one's ancestry.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:48 pm

to replicate one's genes is to attempt racial purity
to honor one's ancestry is to respect their values

thus, fuck your sister to create a close copy of yourself

Mo undesstands you, but do you understand mo?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:49 pm

I love this...the gene/meme divide.

Garcon!!
Another round of the same shallowness.

Yes, you heard me...more immediate gratification, just for the fuck of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:52 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Her morals come from her respect/love for her ancestry, which is what Apaosha had said too, and to which you asked him to f--- his sister,

You attributed to me, "fuck your sister" because someone respects their ancestry.

No, and repeating isn't going to make it true.
Think about it when you are calmer.


Quote :
About double standards:
Where phoneutria's morals come from, and how they're justified, isn't the topic of the thread. When I talked with apaosha, it was. On top of that, she said that a few hours ago.

Give your head a shake.

HAA

Or I'll just ruffle yours,, soft and brown...

The topic of both threads are about the basis of value-standards,,, apaosha in the context of race, fifi in the context of taste.

If that's the attitude you are going to adopt, constricting yourself like that, you are going to miss on the broader vantage and not be benefitted.

Just saying.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:54 pm

phoneutria wrote:
to replicate one's genes is to attempt racial purity

The attempt to racial purity is because he takes pride in his ancestry.


Quote :
Mo undesstands you,

He does.

Quote :
but do you understand mo?

Yes, thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:57 pm

gtg, pardon.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 10:57 pm

Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Probably because my ancestry does not compel me to preserve the purity of my genes, dear.
Really?
So, the mix that produced the wonder which is you should not be preserved?

We'll mix it back into the batter and hope something wonderful will rise, quite by accident.

Do you know why the ashkenazi Jews produced so many Nobel prize winner, babes?
Do you have a clue?

The mix that is me is not reproducible, dear. It can't be preserved.
I am not a lab experiment, I'm a product of a stochastic process.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:06 pm

Lyssa wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
to replicate one's genes is to attempt racial purity

The attempt to racial purity is because he takes pride in his ancestry.

We know that. In his own way it is how he wants to ho or his ancestry.
it is not my way.
What apaosha proposed and what I propose are not the same thing. Same objective, different approach. My concern is purely memetic, his genetic/memetic.

Thus, you can drop you accusation of a double standard. It makes no sense for you to say that mo should apply "fuck your sister" hyperbole to me. I am not an advocate of genetic purity.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:10 pm

Some see further back than their shallow graves.
They do not take credit for their ancestors, if they are not ashamed of them, but stand in humility before their deeds, wanting to add to them or, at the very least, wanting not to blemish their memory by lowering themselves to beneath their standards, reverting to a damn manimal, and feeling proud of it.
But do not let your conscience be burdened dear.

Race, dear, is ancestry beyond the immediate family, just as contentment is pleasure beyond the ephemeral orgasm.
The difference is one of degree...temporal degree, dimensional...as in shallow or deep perceptual-event-horizon.

You, dear, divide body and mind, gene and meme....pleasure from need, and from consequence....values from ancestry in the deeper sense.
As if things simply emerge accidentally, out of nothingness.

You close yourself in a time box, and turn into a beast.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:19 pm

Satyr, dear, I have no race. I am a mongrel. My blood line is untraceable. It is the same with the large majority of the population where I come from. Even if I could find out what percentages of each part composed me, I could not find another like me to mate with, and even if I did, what would come of us would be something else entirely. I am a product of the randomness that you loathe.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:23 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Satyr, dear, I have no race. I am a mongrel. My blood line is untraceable.  It is the same with the large majority of the population where I come from. Even if I could find out what percentages of each part composed me, I could not find another like me to mate with, and even if I did, what would come of us would be something else entirely. I am a product of the randomness that you loathe.
No shit!

I know of Brazil, dear.

Unfortunately you carry the burden of that mixed inheritance, as a limitation in potential.
Does not mean you cannot cultivate it to its highest, or you cannot choose which meme you will give yourself to.

The Greeks and the Jews seeded....you have a choice, in the west, which one will impregnate your spirit.
I, personally, do not care.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:27 pm

A pure inheritance is a limitation.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri May 23, 2014 11:53 pm

Lyssa,

Mo wrote:
When I ask apaosha what he values, his response is that he values himself and his genetic heritage. ---And that’s a fine answer, as far as it goes. But when you ask him what valuable qualities he finds embodied in himself and his past, he won't say; his only response is, "It's personal". People proud of themselves and their past have spent time reflecting on the values embodied in their past, and they are not afraid to stand by those in conversation with others.
...
Do you value yourself simply because you were born? Or your ancestors, simply because they were born? I am a combination of some strengths, and some flaws. I see both, in my past. I look at my weaknesses as an opportunity and a challenge, and I'm grateful for that. What would be the point of things if everything were already given to you? To say that I value myself and my past is NOT to say that I was born a god, perfect in every way.
...
If you value your past simply because it is your past, without recognizing the valuable qualities embodied in your past, as well as the flaws, then that entire pride you feel is an emotional response. If there's something wrong with that, then it's a flaw that I'm admitting of myself, because I would feel it in the case of any hypothetical child that I would have.

But that doesn’t stop me from reflecting on my past, and recognizing both the good and the bad, because how else would I know thyself.

I was speaking from a version of the Euthyphro dilemma... (Do you know it?)
If someone says, "X is valuable because God says so" ---I'll ruin that, and them. Likewise,
If someone says, "X is valuable because Ancestors say so" ---The same problem.

Your ancestors did NOT value what they did for no reason. If ANYBODY values something for no reason, then there's no reason to care what they value. Respecting your ancestry means digging into why they thought what they did---the reasons behind it. And I would present the same problem to phoneutria, or anyone else. But it's not the topic of the thread, (you would know that), and thinking that I'm not willing to criticize her....well, you're ignorant.



I'll be the one benefiting you, here.



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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 7:19 am

phonee wrote:
A pure inheritance is a limitation.
No, dear....a pure inheritance is a non-diluted manifestation of a past, which includes a near-extinction.
Dear the Black Plague, according to Mencken, explains the Renaissance...and the Jewish mind is explained by inbreeding and a tradition that married the rich man's daughter with the Rabbi (wealth and scholarship), and Hitler cleansed the Jews of their unhealthy elements...and so the Caucasian supremacy is a product of the near extinction they had to endure.

Dear, natural selection, and specialization, if you really think about it, is based no some level of inbreeding.
A species is a population breeding within limitations.

Races, dear, are the result of genetic isolation, over time...meaning, inbreeding.
Mixing is chaos, dear. Randomness is this confusion of infinite possibilities unrestricted by order.
And not a brother banging his sister, dear.

Think before you speak.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 10:58 am

brown-haired blue-eyed Mo wrote:
Lyssa,

Mo wrote:
When I ask apaosha what he values, his response is that he values himself and his genetic heritage. ---And that’s a fine answer, as far as it goes. But when you ask him what valuable qualities he finds embodied in himself and his past, he won't say; his only response is, "It's personal". People proud of themselves and their past have spent time reflecting on the values embodied in their past, and they are not afraid to stand by those in conversation with others.
...
Do you value yourself simply because you were born? Or your ancestors, simply because they were born? I am a combination of some strengths, and some flaws. I see both, in my past. I look at my weaknesses as an opportunity and a challenge, and I'm grateful for that. What would be the point of things if everything were already given to you? To say that I value myself and my past is NOT to say that I was born a god, perfect in every way.
...
If you value your past simply because it is your past, without recognizing the valuable qualities embodied in your past, as well as the flaws, then that entire pride you feel is an emotional response. If there's something wrong with that, then it's a flaw that I'm admitting of myself, because I would feel it in the case of any hypothetical child that I would have.

But that doesn’t stop me from reflecting on my past, and recognizing both the good and the bad, because how else would I know thyself.

I was speaking from a version of the Euthyphro dilemma... (Do you know it?)
If someone says, "X is valuable because God says so" ---I'll ruin that, and them. Likewise,
If someone says, "X is valuable because Ancestors say so" ---The same problem.

Your ancestors did NOT value what they did for no reason. If ANYBODY values something for no reason, then there's no reason to care what they value. Respecting your ancestry means digging into why they thought what they did---the reasons behind it.


Mo,

I agree with that last line, and Apaosha said he took pride in his ancestry for whatever reason or values that he wished not to share with you of course; which is not the same as his saying "because ancestors say so" - he never said that. That would be a false claim.


Quote :
And I would present the same problem to phoneutria, or anyone else. But it's not the topic of the thread, (you would know that),

You can take many perspectives on a subject. The frame I'm seeing it from is the common theme of morality and aesthetics.
Apaosha said the morality behind his racial aesthetics [what he considers superior/inferior] derived from the pride in his ancestry.
Fifi said, her aesthetics does not draw on moral values from institutions, but pride in her ancestry.

The context of deriving value stds. is common enough from my p.o.v. I'm sure you can see how it appears to me.


Quote :
and thinking that I'm not willing to criticize her....well, you're ignorant.

What? No. I'm not petty.

I was "suggesting" not thinking that "maybe" why Satyr thought the way he did - that you come off as someone who is more receptive to ideas when presented by a female than a male... had its reasonable validity when under a similar context there is a certain logic you employ which you do not with the other.
The willingness of your objectivity is not in question, but your capacity - i.e. in light of how Satyr thinks from his observations of you - your degree of receptivity (the clarity of understanding ideas) being more easily attuned to a female than a male.

This whole thing started because you said you never wanted to be like Satyr.

Satyr's been on your case since March I think - regarding "just because" or "spontaneous evolution"...
Its going to be the beginning of June now, and you haven't made a single post to clarify you position or your views or anything on the subject.

I understand that you have principles and do not wish to share your views with just anyone, but I hope you can appreciate how you must appear to him then.
As someone who hides, obfuscates, does escapisms, etc.

Do you honestly believe Satyr wants to put you down simply out of personal animosity? Just ego for ego's sake?

I don't know how many people there are in this world, who would even care to point out our errors or simply make us question ourselves and our assumptions - which I think is what he was/is doing with you.

Its not your 'personhood' that he keeps going after, but the "scientific" viability of the process you favour.

How "scientific" [if we are to do objective philosophy and not just come here to clink glasses over opinions], how "scientific" is the procedure you adopt for the aim or goal you wish to accomplish?

What are the probabilities and logical astuteness involved in believing random mixing can on the off-chance produce an unexpected genius, or the line towards a genius...
Data?

These are questions you could have, or still could attempt to answer.

My own attitude is, you don't have to be like Satyr, be better than him, strive to be so.

There's no point in saying you never want to be like Satyr without you explaining why you do not want to be so. You see how it appears to him? Like from March-May, there's no clarification or anything from you, and he begins to believe you are more receptive to absorbing ideas from 'a' fifi, then someone like him... who you do not appear to consider after his constant asking at you.

Anyway, that's what I make of the whole issue.

I hope there will be a fresh start.

A sincere engagement in ideas.


Quote :
I'll be the one benefiting you, here.

Mo, even if you didn't give me anything, you'd still benefit me, and you do.

I have a very black heart. And the black is always absorbing.

cheers.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 12:41 pm

Lyssa wrote:
I was "suggesting" not thinking that "maybe" why Satyr thought the way he did - that you come off as someone who is more receptive to ideas when presented by a female than a male... had its reasonable validity when under a similar context there is a certain logic you employ which you do not with the other.
The willingness of your objectivity is not in question, but your capacity - i.e. in light of how Satyr thinks from his observations of you - your degree of receptivity (the clarity of understanding ideas) being more easily attuned to a female than a male.

You know that is bullshit. You are a female, and I have been dominating you on Nietzsche, for months. You think I "get" nothing, given what you say. How receptive am I? Anyways, I dominate Sauwelios, or anyone else, on Nietzsche.

Quote :
Satyr's been on your case since March I think - regarding "just because" or "spontaneous evolution"...
Its going to be the beginning of June now, and you haven't made a single post to clarify you position or your views or anything on the subject.

Value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is. When you play the 'why?' game, and you keep asking why you do what you do (or value what you value), the game ends in a foundation (or else infinite regress, circularity, or nihilism). That foundation is the foundation of your value. Since value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is, X is valuable (when it is) "just because" of that relation between what you are, and the world as it is. There's nothing further to appeal to, to justify it.

You can investigate that relation, and dig into it. Science, and whatever. But as for the JUSTIFICATORY WHY question, there's nothing beyond that relation.

I was very clear, in March. Please, why don't you read the fucking post:

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Quote :
I understand that you have principles and do not wish to share your views with just anyone, but I hope you can appreciate how you must appear to him then.
As someone who hides, obfuscates, does escapisms, etc.

What bullshit. Tell me how I appear to you. Do I hide and obfuscate and escape?

Quote :
What are the probabilities and logical astuteness involved in believing random mixing can on the off-chance produce an unexpected genius, or the line towards a genius...
Data?

This is his lack of integrity again. Why don't you go and read Chatbox Trivialities, and see if you can find ANY FUCKING PLACE that I ever talked about "random mixing". Why should I have to continually prove to you that I didn't say what you think I said? It's like trying to prove God doesn't exist. Why doesn't he just try to justify the bullshit that keeps coming out of his face. There's a difference between description, and justification. What he describes of me is bullshit, and of course, none of it is ever justified. One learns to take him as he takes himself.... less seriously. Isn't that so?

Quote :
he begins to believe you are more receptive to absorbing ideas from 'a' fifi, then someone like him... who you do not appear to consider after his constant asking at you.

"His constant asking at you"... LOL. Yes, I remember him whispering sweet nothings in my ear, in the early days. The personality or gender of the person has nothing to do with what ideas I absorb, Lyssa. Why is that not obvious to you?

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 7:12 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
I was "suggesting" not thinking that "maybe" why Satyr thought the way he did - that you come off as someone who is more receptive to ideas when presented by a female than a male... had its reasonable validity when under a similar context there is a certain logic you employ which you do not with the other.
The willingness of your objectivity is not in question, but your capacity - i.e. in light of how Satyr thinks from his observations of you - your degree of receptivity (the clarity of understanding ideas) being more easily attuned to a female than a male.

You know that is bullshit. You are a female, and I have been dominating you on Nietzsche, for months.


HA

 cheers 

I wouldn't want to steal your thunder.

Everyone has their own comforting myth, and I can live with yours. You need it.




Quote :
You think I "get" nothing, given what you say. How receptive am I? Anyways, I dominate Sauwelios, or anyone else, on Nietzsche.

Point me to the thread where you dominated Sauwelios.

Proof?

And we are not talking about it that way, are we? Its not your masculinity in question about Dominating or Winning someone, but your being more open to ideas from a female like fifi than a male like Satyr and Apaosha, etc. here, and I have told why you Appear so.


Quote :
Quote :
Satyr's been on your case since March I think - regarding "just because" or "spontaneous evolution"...
Its going to be the beginning of June now, and you haven't made a single post to clarify you position or your views or anything on the subject.

Value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is. When you play the 'why?' game, and you keep asking why you do what you do (or value what you value), the game ends in a foundation (or else infinite regress, circularity, or nihilism). That foundation is the foundation of your value. Since value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is, X is valuable (when it is) "just because" of that relation between what you are, and the world as it is. There's nothing further to appeal to, to justify it.

You can investigate that relation, and dig into it. Science, and whatever. But as for the JUSTIFICATORY WHY question, there's nothing beyond that relation.


You are eager to Conclude than stand in the sunlight, start a sep. thread on this topic expressing your views clearly and coherently in the form of a debate, so as to invite other view points. You would do this if you wanted to be benefitted in the spirit of real philosophy.

But here you are with your reticence again with a closed mind that I cannot blame Satyr for thinking of you the way he does for how you come across.

This is not the place I want to comment on the subject of value itself, but I was pointing out merely why Satyr thinks of you the way he does.


Quote :

I was very clear, in March. Please, why don't you read the fucking post:

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Mo Wrote:

"I am asking you to 'why' you pursue beauty---it's a question about goals and purposes. What is beauty your means to? And then I'm going to ask 'why' you pursue that. And then again, the 'why' question. You'll arrive at your end, and we'll see if you say "just because". If you don’t say "just because", and there's another because, then there's another 'why?' question for you.

When you say "just because", you are basically pointing to something about the world and your senses. That's what happens when you recognize that value is grounded in the world itself."



Satyr wrote:

"Saying "just because" you are recognizing your own nature, your own incapacity to justify your own ideas without referring to an outside authority, or referring back to your own incomplete understanding. Like a child says: "Just because".

The mind that does not understand pleasure, because it is trapped in its revulsion of reality which is experienced as need/suffering, pleasure becomes the end itself.
It is an animal that only senses the object/objective which it has been programmed to be attracted by, and it does not understand why.
It simply surrenders to the sensation and is content there on that level.

The question "why" is the most human question of all.
It is the beginning of the Nihilistic process. It is where Schopenhauer got stuck, what Nietzsche subsequently rejected, and what Buddhism in the east, and the Abrahamic religions in the west, use to deny existence.

To understand the why you must know yourself."




And it stops there without you responding back after that.




Quote :

Quote :
I understand that you have principles and do not wish to share your views with just anyone, but I hope you can appreciate how you must appear to him then.
As someone who hides, obfuscates, does escapisms, etc.

What bullshit. Tell me how I appear to you. Do I hide and obfuscate and escape?

Just in this post where you present a closed conclusion than open a subject for debate, its your Approach that is very withdrawn and closed.

Also, I had asked you in the chat many times on your impression of Satyr and what you think of him, and you refused to answer.
Saying simply "I don't want to be like Satyr" without any reasons or highlighting his errors or flaws IS a hiding.

Why do you not start a thread on why Satyr is the worst to you or some such instead of one on race and evolution? You could do that.



Quote :

Quote :
What are the probabilities and logical astuteness involved in believing random mixing can on the off-chance produce an unexpected genius, or the line towards a genius...
Data?

This is his lack of integrity again. Why don't you go and read Chatbox Trivialities, and see if you can find ANY FUCKING PLACE that I ever talked about "random mixing".


What nonsense. I remember clearly reading in that debate with Apaosha you speaking of selecting valuable qualities from x, y, z... and love as a focus on the good qualities irrespective of any other defects, and the combination being fruitful because of what it Could produce...

Are you going to deny that and smear that its Satyr who has no integrity??


Quote :
Why should I have to continually prove to you that I didn't say what you think I said? It's like trying to prove God doesn't exist. Why doesn't he just try to justify the bullshit that keeps coming out of his face. There's a difference between description, and justification. What he describes of me is bullshit, and of course, none of it is ever justified. One learns to take him as he takes himself.... less seriously. Isn't that so?

Why aren't you concerned why you have given him and myself and others here this impression?

So are you denying you do not believe in race-mixing as in picking up appealing qualities from anywhere and mixing them?

These two are enough to implicate you for me to interpret otherwise.


Mo wrote to Anfang:

""If you value X quality, and you contain valuable Y quality... why not risk an offspring that assembles both qualities? That's the simplistic thought experiment. That's the fucking question of the thread, retard."


Mo wrote to Apaosha:


"Apaosha: What if the blonde woman had a really low IQ? What if her entire family and genetic line shared this propensity for low IQ?

I guess you'd decide whether it's worth the risk. Beauty or intelligence. But if you value the other person enough to take that risk, you would certainly be able to love the child enough no matter how it turned out.

In a simplistic, hypothetical world where beauty is confined to one population, and intelligence the other, are you getting people who are beautiful and intelligent otherwise than by taking that risk?"



Quote :

Quote :
he begins to believe you are more receptive to absorbing ideas from 'a' fifi, then someone like him... who you do not appear to consider after his constant asking at you.

"His constant asking at you"... LOL. Yes, I remember him whispering sweet nothings in my ear, in the early days. The personality or gender of the person has nothing to do with what ideas I absorb, Lyssa. Why is that not obvious to you?



Because you do not take pains to disprove him, and falling back to "why should I take him seriously", etc. appears too Easy.

Self-reverence is about standing in perfect clarity to oneself and the courage to do so before others, and not tolerating black marks.

Satyr wouldn't tolerate a black mark to any false accusations made at him.

In comparison, you can see how you appear, you do not care enough for your self is what I think.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 8:30 pm

Lyssa wrote:
And we are not talking about it that way, are we? Its not your masculinity in question about Dominating or Winning someone, but your being more open to ideas from a female like fifi than a male like Satyr and Apaosha, etc. here, and I have told why you Appear so.

I don’t make ideas my own based on the gender or personality of the person. If you are going to accuse me otherwise, then justify such stupid fucking puke. Is it yours?

Are you completely ignorant to everything I’ve said to you, for months? And likewise for everyone else? Do you have a problem with your self-respect, that you are floating this insult to me without fully adopting it as your own? Own it, if you do.

You were "suggesting" that "maybe" why Satyr "might" have thought blah blah blah. What you said was puke. What is wrong with a person that they can't justify what the fuck they say, but feel the need to keep repeating it?

Here's a metaphor, for you: Grow some fucking balls.

And about "being open" to ideas. I have talked to nobody here more than Satyr. I dedicated an entire OP to him.

Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is. When you play the 'why?' game, and you keep asking why you do what you do (or value what you value), the game ends in a foundation (or else infinite regress, circularity, or nihilism). That foundation is the foundation of your value. Since value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is, X is valuable (when it is) "just because" of that relation between what you are, and the world as it is. There's nothing further to appeal to, to justify it.

You can investigate that relation, and dig into it. Science, and whatever. But as for the JUSTIFICATORY WHY question, there's nothing beyond that relation.
You are eager to Conclude than stand in the sunlight, start a sep. thread on this topic expressing your views clearly and coherently in the form of a debate, so as to invite other view points. You would do this if you wanted to be benefitted in the spirit of real philosophy.

You asked me to explain what I meant. I did. Either it is clear to you, or it’s not. If it’s not, ask a fucking question. If you don’t want to, then don’t accuse me of being unwilling to clarify it for you.

Stop defending why Satyr may think what he does, and speak for yourself. When Satyr responded with “just because” –Did that have ANYTHING to do with what I said? How many times should I repeat it for him?

“My approach is withdrawn and closed” ---Then open it, by asking a question, or raising an actual criticism.

Lyssa wrote:
What nonsense. I remember clearly reading in that debate with Apaosha you speaking of selecting valuable qualities from x, y, z... and love as a focus on the good qualities irrespective of any other defects, and the combination being fruitful because of what it Could produce...Are you going to deny that and smear that its Satyr who has no integrity??

How the fuck is selecting for qualities that you value in a partner "random mixing"??? ---It’s the fucking opposite of “random”. Wake up.

Rather than justify anything he says, he keeps on with descriptions of somebody who doesn’t exist. And then accuses me of evading. No, have some fucking integrity and read what I said. It’s fucking clear. Quote it. Address it.

Lyssa wrote:
Why aren't you concerned why you have given him and myself and others here this impression?

I haven't....
You mean, why am I not concerned about his bullshit fabrications? ---For the same reason that I either adopt, or do not adopt ideas. I adopt ideas when they have the balance of reasons in their favour. Justification. I don’t need to reject something that has no support, for it to be rejected. It was rejected when they let it come out of their face. It falls to the floor, and I walk past it. It’s not because I don’t care about myself (as you ignorantly said), it’s because I do.

If you find something unclear about a post of mine, then actually point to it. Don’t just say, “Aha, here is a person who favours random fucking in orgies with no discrimination, who does not care for himself, who thinks everyone is equal, who is a nihilist, who is a blah blah blah”.

I’ll be judging you by how you act, going forward.


Quote :
Point me to the thread where you dominated Sauwelios.

Proof?

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 9:10 pm

I think being Nietzsche's woman, is as good a goal as any.
The one thing I always dreamed about was growing up to be someone's mouthpiece, to see through his eyes, to perceive reality as he perceived it, not as a way of going forward, but as a way of compensating for my own failings by remaining in his shadow, proud to be the best impersonator of him out there.

That is what I think of when I think of a man.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sat May 24, 2014 10:07 pm

Mo wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
And we are not talking about it that way, are we? Its not your masculinity in question about Dominating or Winning someone, but your being more open to ideas from a female like fifi than a male like Satyr and Apaosha, etc. here, and I have told why you Appear so.

I don’t make ideas my own based on the gender or personality of the person. If you are going to accuse me otherwise, then justify such stupid fucking puke. Is it yours?

Why would I 'accuse' you when its merely an observation, and a FACT that you openly have asked, and accepted Fifi cultivating you than Satyr.

Everybody on this forum knows that you have.


Quote :

You were "suggesting" that "maybe" why Satyr "might" have thought blah blah blah. What you said was puke.

It was in response to your own vomit that you couldn't understand the contradiction that Satyr presented in that thread about you and your hedonism, and so I "suggested", it "maybe" had something to do with.........

That's for you to reflect upon instead of concluding the other was contradicting himself.


Quote :
What is wrong with a person that they can't justify what the fuck they say, but feel the need to keep repeating it?

So why not reflect on why they do so?
What reasons have you come up with?

Where is your Socratic approach now?


Quote :

Here's a metaphor, for you: Grow some fucking balls.

How does that not apply to you, when you haven't started any thread to justify why Satyr is the worst and you would "never" want to be like him?

Quote :

Quote :
And about "being open" to ideas. I have talked to nobody here more than Satyr. I dedicated an entire OP to him.

You only ask him questions and clarifications and little counters, but you do not present your case.

If "just because" is not your phrase or your idea,,, why do you not start a topic on what IS your idea...


Quote :
Lyssa wrote:
Mo wrote:
Value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is. When you play the 'why?' game, and you keep asking why you do what you do (or value what you value), the game ends in a foundation (or else infinite regress, circularity, or nihilism). That foundation is the foundation of your value. Since value is grounded in a relation between what you are, and the world as it is, X is valuable (when it is) "just because" of that relation between what you are, and the world as it is. There's nothing further to appeal to, to justify it.

You can investigate that relation, and dig into it. Science, and whatever. But as for the JUSTIFICATORY WHY question, there's nothing beyond that relation.
You are eager to Conclude than stand in the sunlight, start a sep. thread on this topic expressing your views clearly and coherently in the form of a debate, so as to invite other view points. You would do this if you wanted to be benefitted in the spirit of real philosophy.

You asked me to explain what I meant.

No, I did not.

I was pointing out the common frame of aesthetics in the context of deriving value-stds. in response to why Satyr would think the way he does of you.


Quote :
I did. Either it is clear to you, or it’s not. If it’s not, ask a fucking question. If you don’t want to, then don’t accuse me of being unwilling to clarify it for you.

Did I accuse you of that?

Is asking you why you do not favour a debate-approach to a closed-conclusion approach accusing you of unwilling to clarify it "For Me",,, or is it do with the original topic of this thread as regards you - why Satyr perceives you the way he does when you call him contradictory...


Quote :
Stop defending why Satyr may think what he does,

You made a statement of his being contradictory.

I made a response to that observation of yours.

Who is personalizing things? You wish.
This is ME speaking for myself, and whatever concerns me.


Quote :

When Satyr responded with “just because” –Did that have ANYTHING to do with what I said? How many times should I repeat it for him?

And so I suggested you start your own thread and make clear what you are about.


Quote :
“My approach is withdrawn and closed” ---Then open it, by asking a question, or raising an actual criticism.

One would when you make a case first.


Quote :

Lyssa wrote:
What nonsense. I remember clearly reading in that debate with Apaosha you speaking of selecting valuable qualities from x, y, z... and love as a focus on the good qualities irrespective of any other defects, and the combination being fruitful because of what it Could produce...Are you going to deny that and smear that its Satyr who has no integrity??

How the fuck is selecting for qualities that you value in a partner "random mixing"??? ---It’s the fucking opposite of “random”. Wake up.

It is when you think "intelligence" is "just another" quality...

Quote :
Rather than justify anything he says, he keeps on with descriptions of somebody who doesn’t exist. And then accuses me of evading. No, have some fucking integrity and read what I said. It’s fucking clear. Quote it. Address it.

He already did with the example of the red hair gene.

Do not pretend that he is some kind of stupid idiot who jabbers irrelevantly, if you value your character as being someone honest.


Quote :
You mean, why am I not concerned about his bullshit fabrications? ---For the same reason that I either adopt, or do not adopt ideas.


Then do not blame him for the observations he makes - you chose to accept being cultivated by Fifi (being critical of her included) and her ideas, than Satyr.
Its a fact then that he finds you more receptive to her than himself.

Why do you take that as an accusation when he constantly tells you so? Why does that irk you then, enough to find him unpleasant?

Quote :
I adopt ideas when they have the balance of reasons in their favour.

Yet, you never explained why Satyr's positions lacked reason and took to fifi.


Quote :
I’ll be judging you by how you act, going forward.

As if you haven't before.

Quote :
Quote :
Point me to the thread where you dominated Sauwelios.

Proof?

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[/quote]

That's a 15 page post, I'll read it later as you "winning" someone isn't the immediately concerning topic here.[/quote]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun May 25, 2014 4:08 am

Mo wrote:
I am nothing like you. Nor will I ever be anything like you.

I would just be guessing in saying you probably have misguided estimates of both parties. Give details as to what your present day estimates are in order to help my investigation. Other than time which you have plenty of, there's nothing valuble on the line other than the concerns of someone potentially petty. Stop letting fear hold sway and spill your guts.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun May 25, 2014 7:02 am

There Will Be Blood wrote:
Mo wrote:
I am nothing like you. Nor will I ever be anything like you.

I would just be guessing in saying you probably have misguided estimates of both parties. Give details as to what your present day estimates are in order to help my investigation. Other than time which you have plenty of, there's nothing valuble on the line other than the concerns of someone potentially petty. Stop letting fear hold sway and spill your guts.
The "line" is a message to the reader.

It means nothing to me, since I consider him a moron. A moron telling you that he is nothing like you is a compliment.

Therefore, the message is directed elsewhere.
Some criticism has been shared with someone, and he is indirectly telling this other that, based on their shared analysis of Satyr, he is nothing like Satyr.  
It's saying this:
"Based no our shared evaluation of this person I am its opposite, and will always be so."

It's a form of appealing to the ideal; a seductive statement.  
The ideal here, as far as I can determine, is a romantic interpretation of that old stand-by Nietzsche.
He is Nietzsche true disciple, and others are pretenders, because we all want to be his disciples.
He can only evaluate in relation to this understanding of Nietzsche and his positioning as the best mouthpiece, the perfect offspring.

As such he is looking for his Salome and all contenders are varied manifestations of Lou Andreas.

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There's a triad in play here - Father/Son/Holy Spirit....
The Real the Ideal and the agency.

The first two must come together, after being split apart, through the last, so as to achieve completeness.

Salome is Nietzsche's completion in sexual unity and the completeness is the perfect Human.

The antagonist wants her to know that he is no-thing, like the other, and so some-thing, for her, given their shared ideals.

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There Will Be Blood

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun May 25, 2014 7:34 am

Man, I didn't even think of that. I told him to stop a while ago. If true, the only way out of this would be a great imagination that thinks up the magnificent and believable.

This might be check mate buddy.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun May 25, 2014 7:38 am

If not its like this version of Salome is an extremley bad one. But desperate times do call for desperate acts, mabey worthwhile.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun May 25, 2014 9:32 am

There Will Be Blood wrote:
If not its like this version of Salome is an extremely bad one. But desperate times do call for desperate acts, maybe worthwhile.
But it is "bad" because it is all an imitation...as with his pride in being the one who gets Nietzsche the best...even better than Sauwelios who is not in the second decade of his obsession with Nietzsche, graduating to the Jewish version that is assimilating his views, the challenges exposed, into the post-Modern inevitability of Globalized uniformity.

Mooo is as much a Nietzsche, as Phonee is a Salome.
They are both facsimiles, or the type within the context of a Modern age characterized by a reduced lyricism, literacy, and increased uniformity, decadence.
The intent is to represent what has fallen out of the modern man's experiential possibilities, or has fallen to ill repute.
In an age of superficiality, the act replaces the spirit. All becomes pretense.
You are what you declare; you choose your identity, you do not discover it - you manufacture it.

The modern adage: "Be yourself" is a lie.
It simply means be true to your act, because being yourself is only permitted when self is a product of the culture and remains within the acceptable, the civil, the polite, the normal.

Since pleasure is for its own sake, and beauty in the "eye of the beholder" then identity is manufactured, cultivated, without connecting it to something else - taste with no roots, no past, and therefore no intent except the immediate.
Once identity is severed away from anything beyond the immediate, the culture, as in past/nature, history according to a modern narrative, then the identity can be fabricated by sampling experiences not your own.
This is called acting.
Not action in accordance to the innate, the manifestation of your particular past/nature, but adopted as a mask, a character over your personality.
The personality determines how well the character/caricature will be performed.

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