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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:23 pm

Æon wrote:
At the very least, Lyssa has a perverted mind of sorts.

You are right there.

I love dealing with dead-ends like you.

That indeed makes me perverse, quite out of the ordinary.


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:27 pm

You're very provocative and forward with your insults. You prefer bluntness over subtlety.

Either I offended you recently, or you are trying to improve your station and status with your boyfriend.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:30 pm

Satyr wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
And was she Mere metaphor herself?

The "mere" bait, yes.

The prose, prosaic, for its own sake.
Art for art's sake.

Art referring back to art.
The word, the symbol, referring back to symbols.
Connection to reality, to the phenomenon, lost in a circular noetic device.


There is a difference between saying everything is metaphor and saying, everything is Only metaphor Always...

It is a very cynical view from a weariness.

The disbelief in the Am for too long.

I AM x, y, z...

The weariness doesn't let the Am stand for long... it turns cynical and uses this cynicism ['My conscience doesn't allow the lie that there could be any be-ing for long'] to justify a hedonism.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm

Æon wrote:
You're very provocative and forward with your insults.  You prefer bluntness over subtlety.

Being in the dungeon, that must be news to you only now! I excuse you.

Quote :
Either I offended you recently,

You wish...

Quote :
or you are trying to improve your station and status with your boyfriend.

You know me best. I'm only here to seduce all my boyfriendS, and more so my Lord and Master, you know who... Wink

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:20 am

lol
do you take me for a drunkard?
a body in a opium den?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:25 am

phoneutria wrote:
lol
do you take me for a drunkard?
a body in a opium den?


No, I dont.

"Sometimes I’m terrified of my heart; of its constant hunger for whatever it is it wants. The way it stops and starts."
[Poe]

"Extract the eternal from the ephemeral." [Baudelaire]




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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:07 pm

The premise that hedonism requires a justification is silly.
The premise that carrying oneself a certain way is a consequence of the weariness of a cynical view is a better way to put it.
An even better way to put it is that cynicism is a factor in choosing a path.

"I chose hedonism because, among other things, I am cynical."

Neither "ascetic balance" nor hedonism are consequences.
They are paths.
The destiny is eudaimonia.

Satyr's "ascetic balance" (really, epicureanism), finds balance in indulging pleasures while not becoming a slave to them.
My hedonism finds balance in not permitting one pleasure to interfere with the others.

It is the same behavior, different motivations.
He "lives lightly" because he doesn't allow burdens to his conscience.
I "am light" because my conscience is not burdened by that which I enjoy.

Thus we can both enjoy a good ruby port... and the other's dialogue... on a good day.


Now, to the Huntress...

Leasy wrote:
The opposite of cynicism is not 'immediately' romantic naivete, or being less-experienced; its merely a question of health, of 'chastity' - keeping pace with reality as it is.

In this context, it is obvious to oppose cynicism with trust. She is not cynical, therefore she is trusting.
She is not naive, thus she will surrender trust when she finds one that is deserving of it.
She is inexperienced, for she is chaste.
She is healthy for her trust was never broken.

Thus, she waits... she will search earth and sky Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:03 pm

It's good to have no conscience and to justify yourself after you've surrendered to your animal instincts.
Word games are also enjoyable.

I like them because despite this non-interference, and non-justification, the mindless one still manages to not get into trouble by remaining aloof to her own behaviors.

It's like when a female declares herself an enlightened soul, not affected by appearances, then justifying her non attraction to ugly and weak men, after-the-fact...but not wanting to know why she felt pleasure in both surrendering and rejecting.
Non-interference, another word-game explaining why a mind is compartmentalized....why it is schizophrenic...why it contradicts itself in relation to its own values.

It does not allow its pleasure in getting fucked to interfere with the pleasure of equality.
So it never has to justify or integrate the two...three, four, ten behaviors.
The pleasure is enough.

A dog's life.
Luckily in modern system's even dogs have rights...and "deserve" to be protected and respected.
Just because.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:08 pm

are you saying one cannot like both thw blonde and the brunette?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:14 pm

No, dear, I can like them both, but this would not indicate that liking one is different from liking the other, or the reason why does not go back to a single source.

Reducing pleasure to a hair color is like reducing race to skin pigmentation.  

"Live Lightly" is conscious. It is choice.
"I am light" is flaky, superficial, shallow.
Of course you are "light". You are mentally detached from reality.
You want to experience it without understanding it.  

An animal, if it had a choice.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:17 pm

Did I make an argument of race? I don't think so. It was another metaphor Wink

Your example fails because there is no interference between advocating equality and fucking. You gave the example of a hypocrite. A person who does not subscribe to equality at all, despite her words.

You also equate having no burdens in conscience to having no conscience. That's just silly dear.

If you want to speak against hypocrisy and against a lack of conscience, please do so, but do not do so in reply to my posts, as those words are not mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:27 pm

Evasion.
Nice.
I know dear...you are so complex that you never say anything.

Did I say you made an argument about race?
I love this game.
A worm dangling, squirming....wanting.  

No conscience interfering with my judgment of reality.
When I look I leave my emotions out of the interpretation, as much as possible.

Old Man wrote:
Reducing pleasure to a hair color is like reducing race to skin pigmentation.  

Using a clever quip does not mean you made a clever argument, or an argument at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:57 pm

neither did you, in regard to anything I say
fighting windmills again, dear Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:59 pm

I wouldn't say you were that thick, dear.

Allow me the pleasure of living in my own world.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:15 pm

who is evading, if you won't address my words, but your own, imagined interlocutor?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:18 pm

You should disregard everything I post, or have ever posted, my dear.
They are ramblings of an old man. A tired, sick, old man, living in his own universe, seeing ghosts everywhere.
The world is as it appears to be.

My time here is drawing to a close.

At least for a long while.

Enjoy yourself.

Bon appetit....

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:21 pm

You are nice and curvy, and now evasion.... shall we do each other's nails next?
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:51 am

phoneutria wrote:
The premise that hedonism requires a justification is silly.

Except the premise was that hedonism in the case of one kind of a modern feminist is justified via cynicism... that is a point about feminism, not hedonism.


Quote :

The premise that carrying oneself a certain way is a consequence of the weariness of a cynical view is a better way to put it.

If that is what I wanted to convey, I would have, thanks. But that is not what I want to convey.

I want to convey, one kind of modern feminism is a weariness from cynicism and this cynicism is used to substantiate the choice of a certain way.
I say that because I do not see hedonism as an immediate consequence of this cynicism, Satyr's ascetic-epicureanism being an example.

Quote :

An even better way to put it is that cynicism is a factor in choosing a path.

"I chose hedonism because, among other things, I am cynical."

It may be A factor for A choice of whatever nature in someone's life-path, but I am not talking of hedonism am I.  The phenomenon I'm talking about is a certain kind of modern feminism, where it is used as The factor. And so my premise is about characterizing feminism, not hedonism.


Quote :
Neither "ascetic balance" nor hedonism are consequences.
They are paths.
The destiny is eudaimonia.

And fifi just wrote herself,
"The premise that carrying oneself a certain way is a consequence of the weariness of a cynical view is a better way to put it."

!


Quote :
Satyr's "ascetic balance" (really, epicureanism), finds balance in indulging pleasures while not becoming a slave to them.
My hedonism finds balance in not permitting one pleasure to interfere with the others.

It is the same behavior, different motivations.

No, nice inversion; its the same motivation, the same cynicism that you both share, but the behaviour and how you deal with that cynicism is different.
Satyr is not weary from it; I believe your kind of feminism is.

Quote :
He "lives lightly" because he doesn't allow burdens to his conscience.

I "am light" because my conscience is not burdened by that which I enjoy.

From what I understand of Satyr, he would enjoy a fine red wine moderately. Nothing in excess. Excess would kill the taste, the experience.
He wants to experience it again, and so savours it in balance. Living lightly is about knowing how to discriminately enjoy a certain thing.  

From what I understand of you, your cynical weariness has already decided that no moment, no experience will last in its uniqueness for more than a certain time, after which things get reified. So you use that cynicism to justify your tasting wine today, juice tom... as equally unique experiences. You do this because you have already concluded that you can't taste that wine again, do justice with it with the same conscience as the first time, the first awe of it. So you flit from one to the next to the next... because your conscience IS burdened by experiencing the same thing over again as you've said so yourself.

You cannot stay with reality for too long, it spoils the experience of the moment.

Living lightly for you is about never staying with something long enough as they become reified,,, you enjoy, and then move on to the next novelty from innumerable choices... finding something good in everything. This is an indiscriminate levelling and not a discriminate affirmation.

Satyr's epicureanism is content with red wine alone, and looking forward to experiencing it again. It is a product of his conscious discrimination.
Your hedonism needs novelty. It is as you say not burdened by whatever you enjoy because only experiencing that authentic momentariness, that "now" counts, doesn't matter "what" you indulge in, as long as you are able to be true to that moment.
That cynical weariness is used to justify indulging in "whatever" as everything gets reified beyond a certain moment. This loyalty only to the moment, to the now, is what makes you light. So although your hedonism is rooted in a suffering (stemming from your cynical weariness with the fluctuous nature of reality), your pleasure appears unburdened by any other awareness than the momentary, and you can think of yourself as being 'light'.



Quote :

Now, to the Huntress...

Leasy wrote:The opposite of cynicism is not 'immediately' romantic naivete, or being less-experienced; its merely a question of health, of 'chastity' - keeping pace with reality as it is.

In this context, it is obvious to oppose cynicism with trust. She is not cynical, therefore she is trusting.

Nice convolution of words and intentions.
"She is not naive, thus she will surrender trust when she finds one that is deserving of it." is the opp. of what you had said, which was - to be non-cynical was to be naive immediately. "She is not naive" is Not what you had said, the opp.
I am neither naive, nor cynical dear, just Han.


Quote :
She is inexperienced, for she is chaste.

Again, the 'obviousness' of this is flimsy.

Its because the huntress is chaste, she is able to and Has experienced more.
Some people's blood coagulates quicker, renews furiously and so wounds disappear like they never happened... traceless on the virgin skin...

No?

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Quote :
She is healthy for her trust was never broken.

Or she believes,

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"I choose your injustice as my alloted portion." [N., TSZ]


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A man's injustice and the pain he gives her belongs as much to HER as does his justice; perhaps she would have it no other way.
To surrender to someone is to affirm them Wholesomely beyond pain/pleasure, loss/gain, not the hedonistic bits that give pleasure alone; else its her very surrender that would then turn the hunter into no more than a pleasing animal, a prey to play with... and so a self-retardation.

Surrender with all your heart, or don't. 0/100.

Quote :
Thus, she waits... she will search earth and sky

Or she might wake up to what's always been right in front of her eyes. And then Remain, no matter what.


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Quote :
neither did you, in regard to anything I say
fighting windmills again, dear

If Satyr appears to be fighting windmills, its because You made the situation that way.

Satyr said, ""Live Lightly" is conscious."

And you responded speaking of "no burdens in conscience to having no conscience."

The conscious and the conscience are two different matters.
The absence of the former is "like reducing race to skin pigmentation." is what he said - a metaphor, dear.
When the conscience is burdened by awareness of reification, its conscious becomes unburdened, light... it indulges in the enjoyment of various things.
When the conscious is burdened by awareness of reification, its conscience becomes unburdened, light... surrendering totally to the momentary enjoyment alone.
You can take it whichever way, the meaning is the same Essentially.

Well, haven't slept a wink in two days. Taking a break,,, will have to respond to you later.

ciaos fifi.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:37 pm

Leasy wrote:

From what I understand of Satyr, he would enjoy a fine red wine moderately. Nothing in excess. Excess would kill the taste, the experience.
He wants to experience it again, and so savours it in balance. Living lightly is about knowing how to discriminately enjoy a certain thing.  

From what I understand of you, your cynical weariness has already decided that no moment, no experience will last in its uniqueness for more than a certain time, after which things get reified. So you use that cynicism to justify your tasting wine today, juice tom... as equally unique experiences. You do this because you have already concluded that you can't taste that wine again, do justice with it with the same conscience as the first time, the first awe of it. So you flit from one to the next to the next... because your conscience IS burdened by experiencing the same thing over again as you've said so yourself.

Is there a difference, really?
Couldn't you, instead of saying that my conscience is burdened by experiencing the same thing over again, say that that experiencing the same thing over again would kill the taste, the experience?
Once I've found "The Wine", the best wine ever tasted, one that puts all other wines on the floor, should I just drink it every day until I am sick of it?
I would rather retain the remarkable memory of that taste.

So for this thread...

Leasy wrote:
The awe of that first moment which we lock in our experience is only intensified again and again, every time we Re-turn to it when we turn around it, and we turn around it because it was so inspiring.

How long can you keep on inspiring, when you are on a 24h inspiring shift?
Or, does the Sovereign surrender to a man, and then goes on a vacation?
Oh... am I being cynical?
Wink

Quote :

Living lightly for you is about never staying with something long enough as they become reified,,, you enjoy, and then move on to the next novelty from innumerable choices.
You cannot stay with reality for too long, it spoils the experience of the moment.

Satyr's epicureanism is content with red wine alone, and looking forward to experiencing it again. It is a product of his conscious discrimination.

Are you saying that while Satyr is avoiding an excess of red wine, he doesn't try for a little cognac?

Quote :

Your hedonism needs novelty. It is as you say not burdened by whatever you enjoy because only experiencing that authentic momentariness, that "now" counts, doesn't matter "what" you indulge in, as long as you are able to be true to that moment. That cynical weariness is used to justify indulging in "whatever" as everything gets reified beyond a certain moment.

From what, exactly, do you gather that "what" I indulge in doesn't matter?
When I say that I am not burdened by that which I enjoy, I mean nothing other than my sense of taste is in alignment with my sense of moral.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:26 pm

My sweet, you are toying with your vagina.

Phonee wrote:
It is the same behavior, different motivations.
He "lives lightly" because he doesn't allow burdens to his conscience.
I "am light" because my conscience is not burdened by that which I enjoy.
My conscience is only burdened by consequences, not morals.
Your enjoyments are common, and so you need not worry about a thing.

Your mediocrity is consequence free.
Do you enjoy sipping tea, and going for long walks?
None of that interferes with your conscience, I trust.

You presume so much to feel better about your simplicity.
I live lightly to not have my enjoyment be interfered with...by manimals.
If I was not burdened by consequences then they would.
I also like control.
It accentuates my enjoyment.

In a world where some of these consequences are imposed, you would find my enjoyments difficult to stomach if this were not the case.

I enjoy cognac...but prefer wine.
I know what is the common ground between wine and cognac. 
I know why I enjoy. I do not simply enjoy.


For example, I would enjoy fucking you doggy-style because of your attitude.

I drink all wine, but prefer the best wine, in moderation.
Sometimes I break my own rules, just for the fuck of it.
Sometimes I overeat...other times I fast.

I find pleasure in the mundane, and make the best of it, as much as I can.
Like talking to dimwits online.
A guilty pleasure...which does not make me feel guilty.

I taste different wines seeking an even better one, knowing that no perfect wine can ever be found...nor should it...but I also know why I enjoy wine, and so I do not place much weight on drinking, or on wine, but only as a means...and tasting every single wine I come across is not my ambition. 

It's not "spontaneous," nor "just because".
That's what idiots say when they do not wish to go further, fearing that their pleasure might be diminished.

Knowing this does "kill the buzz", initially, but then it opens up the possibility of a more refined taste....and a greater appreciation.
You come to a place where a few wines suffice, and hearing of all these drunks drinking this and that, does not inspire you, because you know what it is: mostly hyperbole...minds wanting to appear more content than they are, equating quantity with quality.  

I know that despite gossip, there is no absolutely greener pasture (just to mix up the metaphors)...and so I find contentment in the one I'm in....sheeple, cows, bovines, and all...plus a few humans.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:22 pm

Quote :
Nice convolution of words and intentions.
"She is not naive, thus she will surrender trust when she finds one that is deserving of it." is the opp. of what you had said, which was - to be non-cynical was to be naive immediately. "She is not naive" is Not what you had said, the opp.
I am neither naive, nor cynical dear, just Han.

This was a logical equation extracted from your post, not my words.

Non cynical = trusting.
Non naive = discriminating in the placement of trust.
Experienced = has gone through a breach of trust.
Born-again chaste = healed from a breach of trust.

It is that last attribute, the healing... back to virgin skin.
Pain serves the purpose of teaching. Scars are mementos.
Virgin skin does not know pain.
The strong woman walks barefoot.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:36 pm

Satyr wrote:

My conscience is only burdened by consequences, not morals.

I don't believe that for a second, dear.

Quote :

Your enjoyments are common, and so you need not worry about a thing.

Is that so?

Quote :

Your mediocrity is consequence free.
Do you enjoy sipping tea, and going for long walks?
None of that interferes with your conscience, I trust.

What do you do, dear, when your pleasure causes pain on another? What do you do when the other is not a willing participant?

I love tea.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:41 pm

Phonee wrote:
I don't believe that for a second, dear.

Good.
And...who cares?

Phonee wrote:
Is that so?
Indubitably...

Phonee wrote:
Is that so
If the only pleasures you can indulge in, in excess, do not force you to consider the repercussions...then, my sweet, you are one dull creature.
So...yeah, have that extra bottle of wine, but do not go out driving, do not go out half-naked, do not have a man over...and so on....be free...cheers.  

Phonee wrote:
What do you do, dear, when your pleasure causes pain on another? What do you do when the other is not a willing participant?
What if?
Are you introducing morals into the equation, my sweet...or was that a sign of a hidden conscience, a secret Christian aesthetic?

Getting drunk every other night, gorging on pork loin, and fucking the neighbor's prepubescent son, is the limit of your pleasure?
How avant guarde of you...so modern.
A glutton?

Your brain is contained within the artifices mommy and daddy brought you up in.
Your definitions fall within those cultural, socially constructed, boundaries.
You've only overcome the guilt recently....by the tone of your posts. You feel emancipated from that childhood shame.    

Fuckin' hypocrite.

Have a biscuit.

Guilty pleasure...
I would fuck you from behind...pulling your head back using your hair...then blow my load on your face.
Before going to the kitchen to make me a sandwich, you would have to clean up, and thank me for the service.

Hygiene and gratitude are signs of civility.
I insist on them.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:58 pm

Imagine a nit-wit born and raised in modern excess, seeking the higher high, to deal with the numbness it produces....claiming to care only about the pleasure...and then demanding that the other's pleasure be dependent upon her consent. All the while pretending to be unburdened by conscience, but expecting that the other would.

Privilege, garcon!!!
One to go.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:01 pm

Satyr wrote:
 
I would fuck you from behind...pulling your head back using your hair..

Hey!!! that's my role!!
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:06 pm

You can lick up the leftovers.

Remember....excess?
Direct the concept back to your own actions.
All has a benefit and a cost.
You are, of course, to do as you please.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:15 pm

Yeah, well I'm going to see how far I can take it....

Read that in anyway you wish Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:17 pm

You do what you've got to do...and I will do what I've got to do.

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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:27 pm

I demand nothing, dear.
It is a challenge.
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PostSubject: Re: Surrender and Sexual Predation Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:27 am

Satyr wrote:

What if?
Are you introducing morals into the equation, my sweet...or was that a sign of a hidden conscience, a secret Christian aesthetic?

Quote :
Your brain is contained within the artifices mommy and daddy brought you up in.
Your definitions fall within those cultural, socially constructed, boundaries.

It isn't a hidden conscience, it is my own little set of "rights" and "wrongs" given to me by mommy and daddy.
My... definitions... are theirs. I carry their memetic legacy.

Those remarkable creatures, who reared this brute, psychopath, and saw fit to surround it with love.

Perhaps they should have yelled at me more, dogmatized me, made me fear them, scare me with scenarios of doom, so that I'd be a psychopath again when they turned away.

They didn't. They let me arrive to conclusions of my own. Thus I want to be right, as I understand right, not our of fear, or guilt. I want to be right, as I understand right, as a homage to my memories of their love.

...because I am a sentimental little woman so gosh darn cute, me.

Should probably say at this point that neither mommy nor daddy were ever christian. They're pagan...

I have not overcome my childhood teachings recently, or ever. I am fortunate to have them both alive, and to have been able to discuss our... definitions, as you call them... in great depth. I hope that I can always hold on to these definitions. Without them I am ... a psychopath.

It's not a very complex system. It is a very simple one. I am true to it and I bear no shame. I am conscious of my demeanor, and my conscience is unburdened.


This is the sort of information I typically leave out... too specific....but then I have to read 200 posts in the future making fun of christianism as though I was one. Put me to sleep old man.


Quote :
Getting drunk every other night, gorging on pork loin, and fucking the neighbor's prepubescent son, is the limit of your pleasure?
How avant guarde of you...so modern.
A glutton?

It doesn't please me to get drunk, dear. I like the use of my mind, feel naked without it, and it's so chilly here.
Drunkness and gluttony are the unfortunate consequences of a highly excitable palate.
These are low pleasures, though, dear. You know that. A dish's presentation and aroma are as important as its taste. The room you're in, the sounds you hear, the thoughts in your mind, all are as important as the taste.
And that's just a meal...
The limit of my pleasure is the limit of your imagination.

But enough about myself.
Let's talk about your image of me.
Wink
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