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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:24 pm

There is very little of human liquidity, in Hannibal, except for the blood and the gore.
No anality, and very little of human liquid discharge outside of the vengefulness against it; reflecting, I suppose, the creators and writer's own dispositions.
A distaste for the out-come, and a romanization of the in-come.
The faeces are left on the slab.
Only choice morsels are selected and digested.
The rest is left to rot.

The erotic scenes, the sex-scenes, themselves are clean, pristine, dry, like Hannibal's kitchen.
All refuse is left behind, or included in the brew and ingested, out of sight.
Everything is "clean", though what precedes and what follows is full of excrement and filth.

Hannibal assimilates the liquidity, turning it into form and function, and what he cannot he leaves behind to "let nature sort it out".

It is why Hannibal appears a-sexual.
You are never sure about what sex he prefers, if he does have a preference.
His tastes are left on the dinner table, where he transforms them, after he's selected the parts, into a form he considers idea(l).
The nastiness, vulgarity, osmotic dissonance of humanity is left outside his pristine memory palace.

He smells, with his sophisticated palate, and then digests the prey before he ingests it.
Swift's coprophilia is never a part of the process.
One is left to believe that Hannibal himself never defecates.
He has externalized this digestive process.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:49 am

With Hannibal the protestant metaphors are inverted, de-bowled, skinned and displayed.
The devil's anal liquidity, his odoriferous nastiness presents itself as dry, contained, secret, unmoving.
This external dryness contrasting against the organic mess he leaves in his wake; his delicate palate and sensitive nose an instrument of releasing the most terrible smells and dirtiest parts of the hidden human body.

Hannibal is encased within a living sarcophagus (Greek for "flesh eater"), containing a churning, bubbling internal liquidity – an Apollonian image keeping secret a Dionysian essence.
He, literally, consumes, the metaphorical flesh of the already dead and rotting, encasing it within his own mausoleum - his "memory palace".
The internal bad smells/tastes seek external perfumes and delicacies to deodorize them.
The rude are exposed for what they are, by spilling their guts for all to see; revealing the hidden truth beneath the charming exteriors, the social faces.
Hannibal does not deny his internal nature; he hides it, using it to uncover the nature of others when they begin to believe in their own pretences.
He feeds (s)wine to swine, knowing they cannot tell the difference; knowing they cannot (re)cognize in other what they've denied in self.

The good Christians, the secular humanists, the Protestant, hard-working, capitalists, are revealed.
The inversion of Christian Protestantism... where it is the ones who reject liquidity (Flux), who hate life, who admit that Satan is ruler of this world casting, as saviour in their play, an immutable, static, God as the annihilating first-responder, who are the ones being forces to see, to taste, to bear witness to what they are beneath the shallow veneer.
Through the reality-principle, death, Hannibal affirms life, and the pleasure-principle; he puts it in its rightful place, giving it a perspective that has been forgotten.
He is the stoic grim-reaper, sphinx-like ripper, cutting away the brain-dead brush to make way for new seedlings to emerge, feeding on the carcasses and entrails.
   

***

Who are the rude?  

The ones who have been protected from the cruelty of nature, growing an untested arrogance within a insecure soul; the image-makers covering up the essence of their own depravity; the ones with an undeserved sense of entitlement, demanding of others what they could never provide for themselves; the ones who have found in the neurotic schizophrenia of modern nihilism a safe-heaven to express their illness, packaging it as a new kind of  health - a progress in what health ought to be.

Who are the rude?

Those who under fake smiles snip and covet, and cast needles to bleed-out what makes them see themselves; those who learn words, parrot ideas, mimic behaviours, attempting to wear an others skin, as they would any other garment, to pretend that what is covered no longer exists - it has been overcome; those who in their desperation to deal with their inheritance purchase blades and learn techniques, to silence and forget; those who in their thick insensitivity practice delicacy, and adopt good tastes, which they could never appreciate.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:38 pm

Hannibal Lecter does not hunt for sport.
He is the opposite of a sport-hunter.
His kills are chosen and planned carefully, and each one is staged; displayed in a particular manner, sending a particular message.
Each one has a purpose and a meaning.
None of his victims are random.
The pleasure of the kill is not the central motive. Killing is not a hedonistic obsession, for him.
It is a side-effect of his main purpose.
Like his cooking, it is ritualized because the pleasure of eating, of satisfying a need, is not the main goal.
Killing, for him, is also a ritual with a design in mind.
The design, as Will calls it, is the object/objective.
He selects the victims with this design in mind
He does not kill just anybody, for the sake of killing, for the thrill of it, and when he consumes parts of his victims it is also a ritualized homage to them.
Each part selected to be consumed is not accidental.
He tells Will, in one scene, how he is careful about what he eats.
Eating is not for the sake of eating.
It is meaningful, for him.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:12 pm

Despite being mocked for my "obsession" with this Harrison character Ι proceed, knowing that art, in this Μodern Αge, must use ambiguity to express truths the masses cannot stomach nor comprehend.
I consider Harrison's Hannibal a Modern Age Hamlet, an Atigony....full of metaphorical significance the simpleton cannot perceive because of the blood and gore he is represented with, to make the tale popular to the many - to make him marketable.
The Modern is only interested in popular narratives and so the only artistic caricatures he can accept, because they are presented to him with a definition, are the older ones.
He can use those to pretend to be intelligent and sophisticated, because he is truly simple and dull.

He turns to the quirky to pretend he is not like the others, the shock and awe tactic, or he settles for the academic, the culturally accepted, to regurgitate, indicating his own quality, and in the meantime, as with philosophy in general, the world passes him by and he remains blind to it.  
It is right there, and all he can do is discuss about it through an other; experience it via a proxy.

And so what is the central attribute of this Hannibal character?
The special abilities are symbols of his difference, but the singular trait that distinguishes him is his willingness to be alone.
He is among the herd and yet not controlled by herd instincts.

Only a "monster or a philosopher..." and Hannibal is, most certainly, both.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:02 pm

endlessly fascinated

Quote :
W: They tell me you were hard to find.

B: That was the idea.

W: Thank you for visiting me in the hospital, and for what you said.

B: I didn’t say enough.

W: Now’s your chance to say it all. (You’ve been granted immunity, blah blah.) Let’s talk about Hannibal Lecter.

B: Some psychiatrists are so hungry for insight that they may try to manufacture it. How deadly that can be for the patient who believes them.

W: You were Dr. Lecter’s psychiatrist; he wasn’t yours.

B: I told myself that. But I was under Hannibal’s influence, and what he did to you made that abundantly clear.

W: You were attacked by a patient who was formerly under Dr. Lecter’s care. That patient died during the attack. The report said he swallowed his tongue.

B: It wasn’t attached at the time.

W: How exactly did your patient die?

B: I killed him. I believed it was self defense, and to a point it was. But beyond that point, it was murder. Hannibal influenced me to murder my patient. Our patient.

W: You weren’t coerced?

B: What Hannibal does is not coercion. It is persuasion. Has he ever tried to persuade you to kill anyone? He will, and it will be somebody that you love, and you will think it is the only choice you have.

W: How would you catch him?

B: Hannibal can get lost in self-congratulation at his own exquisite taste and cunning. Whimsy. That will be how he will get caught.

And between Jack and Bedelia:

J: So you managed to avoid prosecution.

B: Sure did, bitch. (I’m pretty sure I heard her say this.)

J: I gave you every opportunity to tell the truth. But you ran.

B: How do you think the FBI could have protected me? You couldn’t protect Will Graham. You still can’t. Nothing makes us more vulnerable than loneliness, Agent Crawford.

J: Will’s not alone.

B: No, he’s not. Hannibal thinks Will is a killer. Do you still believe he is your killer?

J: I have to believe.

B: Hannibal’s only crime I witnessed was influence. Influence works best when we’re unaware. Will Graham has been very aware.

J: Meaning?

B: Meaning maybe Mr. Graham doesn’t know himself as well as Hannibal does.

J: Will has more reasons to see Hannibal caught than any of us.

B: If you think you’re about to catch Hannibal, that’s because he wants you to think that. Don’t fool yourself. Don’t fool yourself into thinking he’s not in control of what’s happening.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:17 am


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:30 am

Hannibal Lecter is the quintessential hyper-empathic.
He lives in the other’s mind, and is in-tune with his prey, before he makes of it his prey.
He experiences the terror and the pain, of his own attacks.
He is a master of fifth-level, perhaps sixth-level, intentionality, keeping him one step ahead of those who are hunting for the hunter.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:55 pm

What is intentionality here?

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:07 pm

Lyssa wrote:
What is intentionality here?
A supposition of the other's intentions, based on his actions...based on (inter)actions/behaviour.


First-Level of intentionality: PersonA intends to eat, because he reaches for a cookie, and as he licks his lips.
A direct, primal relationship between actor and object/objective.

Second-Level intentionality: Persona A intends to let PersonB know he is going to eat, because there is only one cookie left.

Third-Level intentionality: PersonA intends to let PersonB think he is going to eat, because PersonC is watching, and he wants PersonC to know what PersonB thinks in relation to PersonA.
Perhaps because he wants him to intervene in the case that PersonB intervenes.

Fourth-Level intentionality: PersonA intends to let PersonB think he is going to eat, because PersonC is watching, but PersonC. knows PersonA is faking hunger.

Fifth-Level intentionality: PersonA intends to let PersonB think he is going to eat, because PersonC is watching, but PersonC knows he is faking hunger, but believes PersonB is convinced and wants to see what is going to happen.

It is a empathic web.
What Evolution Psychologists call a mental map.
Humans can reach level 5, and geniuses go further to Lever 6...animals are stuck on level 1, and some go as far as level 2.

In Nihilism this intentionality is ascribed to inanimate objects, to unconscious, un-living, (inter)actions.
It is anthropomorphizing taken to the next level.
One uses other to reflect upon self, which is then projected upon other as intent.
So, a rock (inter)acting with water becomes a self-valuing, or a self-loving, or a wilful act.
The world is full of intentions, which are projected by the observer.

The beginning of religion is here.
All is intentional, ergo all has a purpose, a meaning, it is rational.
The hypothesis becomes a projection of personal motives.  

This is where morals are founded.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:26 pm

Very interesting; thanks for explaining.

Imbesil and the likes of Whitehead, etc. have called just this the "Experiential fabric" or the Experiential "substance"; naturally organization is no intention at the inorganic level.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:27 pm

Level 6 is maybe what we know as ESP - extra-sensory perception; Hannibal with the extra-sensitivity.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:28 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Very interesting; thanks for explaining.

Imbesil and the likes of Whitehead, etc. have called just this the "Experiential fabric" or the Experiential "substance"; naturally organization is no intention at the inorganic level.
Hilarious, no?




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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:29 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Level 6 is maybe what we know as ESP - extra-sensory perception; Hannibal with the extra-sensitivity.

Yes...but it is mundane: holding in memory, sensual data, and formulating a cohesive model combining all these webs of (inter)acting.

It also explains Dunbar's Number, and why some claim a triangulation of relationships, all the way up to 150, or 180.
They claim that the last cognitive leap happened when from 120 the relationship webs went to 150...all divisible by 3.
The God of three as one, is also an interesting connection.

consider the eye relating to the object/objective.
Two sense organs converging upon a point in space/time.
This becomes the atom, the thing, the one.
The eyes representing the base of the triangle.

See...all is organic.
Biology.
Genes to Memes.


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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed May 06, 2015 7:03 pm

Satyr wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Level 6 is maybe what we know as ESP - extra-sensory perception; Hannibal with the extra-sensitivity.

Yes...but it is mundane: holding in memory, sensual data, and formulating a cohesive model combining all these webs of (inter)acting.

It also explains Dunbar's Number, and why some claim a triangulation of relationships, all the way up to 150, or 180.
They claim that the last cognitive leap happened when from 120 the relationship webs went to 150...all divisible by 3.
The God of three as one, is also an interesting connection.

consider the eye relating to the object/objective.
Two sense organs converging upon a point in space/time.
This becomes the atom, the thing, the one.
The eyes representing the base of the triangle.

See...all is organic.
Biology.
Genes to Memes.  



Pinker wrote:
"The third historical force has been called the expanding circle, this is a concept that was named by Peter Singer and first endorsed by Charles Darwin more than a century before. The idea is that evolution bequeathed us with a sense of empathy. Unfortunately, by default we apply it only to a narrow circle of family. Over the course of history you can see the circle of empathy expanding..." [Angels]




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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed May 06, 2015 7:29 pm

What is lost and Hannibal has, is empathy that exceeds the family unit.

He is empathic but this does not make him positive towards the ones he empathizing with.
His empathy is that of a hunter, a warrior.

With moderns empathy crumbles the ego, and he is absorbed by otherness.
Judeo-Christian Morality.

Hannibal's ego, his sense of self, is so powerful that ti remains intact, unmoved, by the empathic experience.
He can enter the other's mind and be disgusted by the contact.

Will exhibits this ability but for him it results in a gradual confusion between who he is and who the other is.
He can empathize, as well as Hannibal, but his ego is too fragile, too Christian.

Hannibal wants to teach him how to remain distinct during the empathic experience.
To feel what the other feels, and see what the other sees, and still remain aloof towards it.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed May 06, 2015 7:37 pm

Satyr wrote:
What is lost and Hannibal has, is empathy that exceeds the family unit.

He is empathic but this does not make him positive towards the ones he empathizing with.
His empathy is that of a hunter, a warrior.

With moderns empathy crumbles the ego, and he is absorbed by otherness.
Judeo-Christian Morality.

Hannibal's ego, his sense of self, is so powerful that ti remains intact, unmoved, by the empathic experience.
He can enter the other's mind and be disgusted by the contact.

Will exhibits this ability but for him it results in a gradual confusion between who he is and who the other is.
He can empathize, as well as Hannibal, but his ego is too fragile, too Christian.

Hannibal wants to teach him how to remain distinct during the empathic experience.
To feel what the other feels, and see what the other sees, and still remain aloof towards it.    

Yes; Emotional contagion is not empathy; Will is contaminated by two conflicting disgusts - the disgusting person the victim was, and the disgusting things the 'killer' - Hannibal does, although he can empathize and feel the aesthetic in the latter's kill.

Another pair of conflicting disgust is at his own feminization [it felt good to kill, he admits], and his moral disgust that he is not disgusted being so immoral.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed May 06, 2015 7:46 pm

A growth from younger to elder Hannibal.
Younger Hannibal cries at the recital. His external coldness, control, is revealed as holding back an internal passion.

The elder, Hopkins character, is the reverse.
He can display his passion, because internally he is detached, cold, unmoved.
He appreciates the recital academically.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:34 am

There is a scene in Hannibal, the TV series when he is asked "What have you done?"
He answers..
"I took my person suit off."

The private personality and public character, interchanging...
The latter existing among characters, caricatures, most of which have no sense of the personae, their own repressed, denied, personality.
The former, risking itself every time it exposes itself in public, and even in private among others of its own kind - intimacy. The private space becomes another public space, of (inter)active identities, imposing themselves upon other; forcing a limit upon the others choices.

Hannibal feels the pressure, but does not give-in to it.
He chooses why and when to impose these limits upon himself, knowing he can escape, flee, disappear.
How many, of us, can do the same?


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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:14 pm

What I envy about the mythological caricature of Hannibal is that his blade can never be doubted, the manimals can never mock and jeer him for long; their (c)rudeness does not go unpunished, nor is there anyone left to accuse him of resentiment and the "projection" of insecurities.

He is calm, stoic, controlled; a rubber face over a volcano, because he knows.

He convinces, he does not coerce, does not debate, does not argue, because the reality, he represents, is inescapable, undeniable.
Those remaining unconvinced he consumes, in tasty morsels, selectively harvested.

Alas, we mere mortals, cannot make his grand symbolic exits, taking off his "person suit".
We can only exchange it for a new one, and hope nobody noticed.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:07 pm

Satyr wrote:

Harrison, Thomas wrote:
Hannibal: I've always found the idea of death comforting. The thought that my life could end at any moment frees me to fully appreciate the beauty and art and horror of everything this world has to offer.

The overman celebrating his victory over his own nature...as temporal becoming.
He no longer resents his nature, his temporal essence, but is comforted by it, because it opens up vistas of perception denied to others.
Existence as an opportunity to see.
If only Hannibal knew about recurrence.
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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:11 pm

Alana, the Modern professional career woman, discovers a way to put her learned insights to work for her, so that she can stop working herself.
Allying herself with the institutional powers, the sickly and demented, even laying next to a female, does not make her ill, what sickens her is the non-conformist man of honour and dignity; the one who rejects her, and tricks her, by manipulating that part she pretends she's risen above.

With no dependence upon the man, now inheriting what others have made for her, the only thing that insults her is the presence of an old masculine trait...the one that seduced her, and rejected her.
That dignity she will crush, day by day.
No, not kill it, as a man would.
She will make it suffer - keep him alive to torture.

The monster of woman outperforms that of any man.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:25 pm

Satyr wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
What is intentionality here?
A supposition of the other's intentions, based on his actions...based on (inter)actions/behaviour.


First-Level of intentionality: PersonA intends to eat, because he reaches for a cookie, and as he licks his lips.
A direct, primal relationship between actor and object/objective.

Second-Level intentionality: Persona A intends to let PersonB know he is going to eat, because there is only one cookie left.

Third-Level intentionality: PersonA intends to let PersonB think he is going to eat, because PersonC is watching, and he wants PersonC to know what PersonB thinks in relation to PersonA.
Perhaps because he wants him to intervene in the case that PersonB intervenes.

Fourth-Level intentionality: PersonA intends to let PersonB think he is going to eat, because PersonC is watching, but PersonC. knows PersonA is faking hunger.

Fifth-Level intentionality: PersonA intends to let PersonB think he is going to eat, because PersonC is watching, but PersonC knows he is faking hunger, but believes PersonB is convinced and wants to see what is going to happen.

It is a empathic web.
What Evolution Psychologists call a mental map.
Humans can reach level 5, and geniuses go further to Lever 6...animals are stuck on level 1, and some go as far as level 2.

In Nihilism this intentionality is ascribed to inanimate objects, to unconscious, un-living, (inter)actions.
It is anthropomorphizing taken to the next level.
One uses other to reflect upon self, which is then projected upon other as intent.
So, a rock (inter)acting with water becomes a self-valuing, or a self-loving, or a wilful act.
The world is full of intentions, which are projected by the observer.

The beginning of religion is here.
All is intentional, ergo all has a purpose, a meaning, it is rational.
The hypothesis becomes a projection of personal motives.  

This is where morals are founded.


Always amazing how an abstract word has so much substance if used not by the Moderates.
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:13 pm

Han(nibal) transforms everyone (s)he comes into contract with.
The Modern, rational, Apollonian types, are transformed as they try to absorb his/her chaos, his/her madness into themselves, and order it, rationalize it, or as they try to embody it, so as to understand it.
They want to change him/her, and are transformed themselves.

Rebirth through eros.
Giving birth, in the form of inspired reasoning, or changed, as Red Dragon/Jacob when he is consumed by the one he wanted to devour.

The tools of transformation also transform from thymotic blades to erotic penises, slicing, penetrating, spilling blood - the soul is cut to pieces or fertilized.
Male penis wanting to make her his muse, his vehicle is changed by contact - she engulfed him and when he pulls out he is no longer the same.
Wounds transform to vaginas, to orifices, gushing out, painfully, pleasure - the essence of life.
To make her orgasm, or to make her bleed, convulsions of his effect, his hardness.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:37 pm

A cut is an intrusion upon the organism's unity.
It bleeds out its essence.
Thymos.

A penis is an intrusion upon the female organism's unity.
It inserts a genetic-program which makes the bleeding turn inwards.
Eros.
A female's menstrual cycle is redirected inwards, towards the new unity instigated by the man's sperm, which now has to be protected from the female's own autoimmune system.
Internal hemorrhaging; internal conflict.
The woman glows, with the addition, the collection and preservation of her own blood.

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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:18 pm

Satyr wrote:
"Sex with no words, no lies, a pure genetic automatic reactivity...with no memetic corruption - an authenticity you cannot find in everyday life.....pure human animalism…intimate.
No words mediating.

The Body acting.

Is akin to Hannibal's vengeance….brutality.
No angry words, no growling....pure violence.

He was an animal among men a primal force among "civilized" robots.

Erotic<>Thymotic.

Blood gushing like a woman gushing.
Death throws like female orgasms.

Pure animal."

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Hannibal - Profile of a Caricature Thu May 19, 2016 10:39 pm

In case anyone did not know, Hannibal is not coming back for a 4th season. After season 3 I heard they were looking for a new network /streaming service but I found out today that the show has been totally cancelled.
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