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 Fixed and Value Ontology

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:17 pm

Since Fixed is here, excerpting some of his remarks on VO that struck me as a quick intro.



FC wrote:
A self valuing is basically a formula to avoid the mistake of 'thingness'.

It avoids all objects, and posits only a logical formula that indicates how whatever can be identified as existing, must be 'behaving' in order to exist. I will try to explain it in experientialist terms if I may - let us posit ourself in an establishment with a human being, or observe one, as we are taught to observe this type of experience. He has character traits that we find pleasing and less pleasing ones. The experience of this interaction will likely follow a path that draws out the character traits that we find pleasing. We interpret the whole of the possibilities of this human being in terms that please us - in terms of us - our self-pleasing tendency that keeps us 'on track' - whatever path it is that an atom has settled, whatever reaction destroys the excesses of the purifying molecule, whatever religion a human being is in conflict with to sustain his intellectual conscience - or whichever sect has drawn the human into itself by having him value himself in terms of it.

Self-Valuing is basically interacting with the environment in a way that confirms what laid as the assumption that caused the interaction. Consistency, but only in very special cases, honesty. Those cases become either self-destructive or relatively immortal - an atom is very honest with itself, but a molecule might be too 'optimistic' (expansive) for its own sake. Because the principle pertains to any 'thing' you may want to identify (it is never "hey, look, a thing!" it is always hey look! [something]) value ontology works seamlessly within the terms that have been established by all politics, religions, sciences and arts, even though it accepts none of these terminologies and orders as absolute. Any large 'thing' that may be a factor of power and magnified experientiality, such as say the stone of Mekka or Cameron Diaz in the Mask can be broken down very quickly into self-valuings and their relations, and because these relations are clarified along with the 'things' themselves - after all what they are is what they do and what they do is interact with each other - so basically they 'are' each other - so what you get is that the experience of what is analyzed is not compromised by the analysis. This is why it's cool. It leads to a more flux like and unified (universal) experience, and keeps the mind from identifying in terms of objects that 'simply are' and just 'exist'. Existence is not given, it is 'taken' - valued into being.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:18 pm

FC wrote:
Value is the interaction of that self-valuing, which indeed as I've tried to clarify, is transcendental principle, a principle of pure logic, from which a definition of existence follows, a definition that happens to include everything that we can experience.

VO is really a logic. Its core principle is not itself a substance, but a consistency within whatever we experience.
Valuing is the substance - and since substance is continuous, also what combines substance with "itself" - so all existence is value, to one self-valuing or another - but self-valuing is required for all that to exist.

Now keep in mind, this is a logic. It's posited, it has terms, it has a premise but all is based on the elimination process of "what, given experience, is impossible to negate".

Self-valuing precedes existence, in that it is required for any existence at all. Existence is based on self-valuing.

Experience is a discrete form of valuation. So is what the experiencer calls "existence" a discrete form of value.

Let us not confuse ontology with epistemology, but integrate them.
As fundamental as experience is, experientialism floats between ontology and epistemology.
Self-valuing represents the continuum in which value is attributed by that which precedes existence to that which, because of the continuity, becomes existence.

Value indicates 'registration'. Value ontology indicates that there can be no neutral registration. All experience is valuation one way or the other, as experience means the opposite of nothing, and anything besides nothing is a value, in the epistemological sense. That means that in this particular epistemological sense, all experience is valuing of something, i.e. the 'valuing into existence' of something other than nothing.

I am always happy when grammar and language breaks down under highly concentrated philosophical argumentation, as grammar is that which posits our frame of thought, and this frame is limited. Whether it is value or experience, the experience of value or the self-value of experience, grammar always intervenes in these phenomena by breaking it down to "something", "acts" "with respect to" and "something else".

The deception implicit in this prefabricated structure has to do with the presupposed basis for neutrality of the sentence itself, which allows for these components to be separated. A point similar to Experientialism and VO is the absence of neutrality. Experience is wholly partial, so is self-valuing and valuing. Partial to what? Bad question - partiality is the substance of the thesis "I", not the other way around. Sustained partiality makes for a subject. Sustained experience allows for the experience of an experiencer, a self.

We can drop the term existence as a neutral given. Existence is either actively engaged in a particular way (experience, valuing, registering, etc) or it is a moot term.
Epistemologically, I have already dropped the term existence, and replaced it with a concept that vividly (experientially) pertains to all of my experience. Experiencing experience without intervention of sterile concepts, this is the goal of philosophy. If I take Exprientialism as I think you mean it, VO is 'an experientialism' - a form of thought that springs from experience directly rather than via positing a neutrally given existence.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:18 pm

FC wrote:
Aha, so it now appears that we can divide existence into two realms - pre and post-excess. Pre-excess is a linear world, a universe wherein every causal formula/vortex can be calculated in terms of the other - i.e. a universe where relativity is reducible to an absolute. Post-excess is where we can no longer speak of 'the universe' while including everything that is at play in it. PtE basically means a potential for a world-in-itself. As chaos represents 'freedom from order', excess means the freedom to begin a whole new order 'from scratch'. Not that the necessity of self-valuing is thereby eliminated, rather, the freedom to self-value 'perfectly' is regained. Innocence through excess.

The linear, pre-excess universe develops along the lines of repetition, and all difference is included in a predictable pattern of sequences. But at the stage where we find ourselves, these stars across the firmament, these 'imperfections' - parts of unfinished patterns - draw us out of the repetition-ontology and into increasing difference, even if death happens to be a consequence. Self-valuing is sustained by possibility rather than by certainty.
We can simply observe that the human self-valuing is driven by its recognition of itself as excess, and it is ever seeking for collisions with other excessiveness, so that new chemistries can be born, at whatever cost.

If we were to attempt to 'save' humanity from a tragic fate, we would do best to produce vessels of excess rather than eliminating the will to evolve as excess. But man has already been wise in this respect - however it is hard to contain such excessiveness. To contain all this force would require an enormous vessel, object of neutralization of excess, and of course art, and by extension the state (Rome) has fulfilled this function. Rome is the product of synthesized excess, and this is why it is forever pulsating and radiating its excessive self-value into the future and encompasses all our mere-political efforts to this day. It is why every grand political movement ends up being a function of Roman politics.

It is why America, at its height, resembles somewhat the majesty of Rome. We should applaud the immense drive to excess that emanates from America, including the hamburgers with two foot radius - the principle is that of life, whereas restrictive societies, such as the unspeakable crap down in the middle east, try to bring life back to the pre-excessive nature of the universe. Indeed, to 'heaven' and 'eternity' - a realm where man is no more or less than atom, where all men fit into the same 'table', where it is not the internal logic that determines the entity, but the logic of external pressure and requirement.

The most obvious example here is the conception of a child from/as a fault line. The 'collision' of a man and a woman, of two plates of logic, of two genetic sets of code, gives rise to the existence of this child and continue to press it into being. It is evident how excess plays a crucial part in the 'collision course' that we call sexual attraction - and thus it is evident how love is so naturally mixed with tragedy, and how most teachings of happiness focus on eliminating excess and introducing a kind of flatlining linearity.
So then, the most basic of base-plates is difference (thus the negation of basic singularity) and from difference, the possibility of repetition of not-so-different instances will emerge.

And all considering, how else could valuing be the basic activity? Valuing of course requires difference. Valuing is the affirmation of difference - the first affirmation - thus affirmation of the self means affirmation of the not-self.

To be 'one with God' is thus wholly undesirable for any entity - unless God is not an entity but a principle - self-valuing.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:19 pm

FC wrote:
A wage-slave is not functioning as a proper entity, he is a semi/quasi-entity. So is the religiously brainwashed puppet.

That said, most people are incomplete in this sense. Language really makes it difficult for people to discern their true values, language virtually consists of pre-set values. That is why I altered language, shaped it around the only concept that matters. VO is among other things technique to distinguish your ow source code from the code you were born into.

There are relatively few humans that are perfect self-valuings, that are perfectly aware of their values and perfectly capable of attaining them on a consistent basis. Humans are easily enslaved, convinced to work for objectives that seem as if they would sustain the self-valuing but in the end end up only utilizing this self-valuings excess energy wihthout feeding it, thereby eroding it and leaving it incomplete by the roadside.

People who do work they dislike doing for money are to a certain extent slaves, literally selling themselves at the cost of themselves. People who work because they value doing this work (enjoy the activity) they do and what comes from it (think of it as valuable) are free.
As soon as reward takes precedence over work, man has sacrificed part of his entity for another part of it. Outsourcing oneself to random purposes is drawing back from existence, allowing the body to become separate of the mind. Health is conditioned by the directness/indirectness of the relation between effort and values.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:19 pm

FC wrote:
I should probably have mentioned Hitler as well. Of course he is also such a person. What matters not is if I like him, but if a lot of Humans valued themselves in the terms he set. And as with all these men, the man embodies the terms.

You can make a list of dozens of such people, but the longer the list becomes the more questionable its entries.
There's no doubt that Hitler was a supreme human value.
But none of these individuals is good enough for me. I require men who are without nationality, who have global dominance, Masters of the Earth.
I, as a human philosopher, command such people into being. I bring forth the Superman, I have devised his code, his education. We are standing before the light, the Sun of the future man is visible to us now.

To understand this code, you must now learn the meaning of subjectivity.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:19 pm

[quote"FC"]"Subjectivity" may be better understood if you think of it as "position" "force" and "receptivity to force".

Not all judgments are accurate, but all judgments are instances of subjectivity. When there are many concurring judgments, man starts to believe in objectivity. It is his drive to impose his judgment on the world, his will to power. For that he has to let the world impose itself on him in a certain way.

Objectivity is measured in the power it grants the subject. Science is the human (a species of subjectivity) documentation of judgments that allow the human predict and manipulate his environment. In applying science, he selects the part of his environment to which he responds. Science is extremely subjective. It is extremely existential, active, manipulative, 'artificial'.

Science is highly selective. Science is selecting responses that form patterns and further responses that make sense in terms of these patterns. It's art is selection, and selection is the quintessence of perspective, subjectivity, holding a position.

My terms are opaque precisely because the belief in the objectivity of language is far more treacherous than any other superstition.
[/quote]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:20 pm

FC wrote:
Value is a specification of the term "significance". No value can be designated if there is not something that can signify something to something. To signify is to mean, to be a reality, to affect. As also value, significance is not to be taken as a conscious judgment.

Even if value is asubcategory of significance, it is also the primordial form of significance. There can be no significance without a valuing, except if there is infinite homogeneity. Every significance is derived from the first reciprocally valuing self-valuings. Value is the reason of affectance.
Value is a term designated to identify the motives of an entity.
A value is a quality and a quantity of motive. The motive belongs to a valuer. The valuer is a standard for value. Value is the motive of a valuer. Value is what affects the valuer and what drives him to affect.

Value is what allows the valuer to exist.
Value is what can cause the valuer to exist and cause him to cease existing. If the value the valuer places in something that is significant/affecting to him brings about a behavior that does not cause him to disintegrate under the influence, the valuer is, implicitly, valuing a continuity of himself, he is self-valuing. If he explicitly values this continuity, he changes as his values become conscious, he begins to grow out of his own roots towards a perfection of a certain reflection of himself.

Consciousness is a form of self-valuing that reflects and lives off unconscious self-valuing(s), but is not necessarily appropriate to it. The conscious self-valuing can simply use the unconscious self-valuings - the values of the consciousness are in some ways contradicting the values of the unconscious. There is not one but two entities in a struggle. The entity could be said to be the struggle. The struggle consists of the discrepancy of standards within the same situation.

Value is that which allows different perspectives to cohere within one situation.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:20 pm

FC wrote:
Projection: Life reaches out to become what it will never become, in order to remain a constant entity with a constant goal, which is its engine.

The drive for the goal that cannot be is the father of fiction. The master artist lives inside that which can never be - the chaotic selfdestroyer Dionysus lives in him, devours his physical being and drinks his blood as his heart which before he hacks it to pieces every night. The heart of the master artist is a hell, and the mastermind, intuitive and elusive, the Devil.

Man has learned to arm himself and fight the creations of the master artist. The state is an agreed upon fiction to banish commonly unwanted fictions. State and religion are indivisible, man believe/s/d in his government as in a power beyond his own power to justify. And those in power believe it as well. The difference between a secular state and a state-under-god is that in the former God is sublimated by deducing his reasons from the wish that he exists, killing that wish and owning the power, and the latter is the relationship of man to his fictional never to be attained goal in plain sight - something painful to behold unless the religion brings a true image of the highest fiction to very many people.

Religions appeal is only its beauty - it must manipulate and be bold. That is granted - but is every bold fiction justified? I very much doubt that I could ever subscribe to that - which means that there are some fictions that will have to be broken.

"My conception of freedom. - The value of a thing sometimes does not lie in that which one attains by it, but in what one pays for it - what it costs us."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols (1888). Expeditions of an Untimely Man, 38

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:20 pm

FC wrote:
Since valuing logically precedes matter as a basis of being, it is not necessarily of final consequence to a being if matter disintegrates. A soul, which means the pure valuing of a being, and which consists purely of valuing (and thus valency), has no need of matter to survive.

I've always avoided this topic though as it is almost too easy to explain through VO and perfectly impossible through any other rational ontology, so that would bring to light fundamental conflicts.

VO is fundamentally in disagreement with materialism. Matter is a function of valuing. Soul is valuing regardless of physical consequence.

I see the material world as a reflection of valuing contrasts. This is not a metaphor. I do not with one hand hold on to materialism, I do not let VO be diluted in this way - value is the bottom line, and from that bottom line all things follow, including, but certainly not exclusively, matter. It's truly a matter of following throught the logic without prejudice. You can not apply VO while still being fundamentally materialist. Either matter is the bottom line and value (and thus soul) a derivative, or valuing is the root reality and then that is what we use in logical arguments to determine what is possible.

The fundamentally problematic point here is that the logic of value ontology itself does not command that matter/time-space is the fixed nature of self-valuing. Physicality is naturally the condition from which we need to begin to understand being, but the dramatic consequence of the VO logic, purely abstract and stripped of all concrete substance, is that matter is a possible form ofthe successful act of self-valuing.

Ultimately, it is a purely logical argument I am making. I do not have the philosophical grounds to posit materiality as a requirement to self-valuing. I am simply being conservative.


The quality of soul refers to memory. I just figured that out. Or to the self-identity of a set of memories. A perspective on a range of events from that same perspective.

The question is as simple as: does the memory of a life remain locked in the same perspective after death? Can a memory de-incarnate into a bundle of subatomic perspectival information? I.e. is consciousness a product of "electricity" (PtA circuitry) rather than of organisms? Is our brain circuitry a host-substance to a more ontologically primary circuitry?

A person with Alzheimer would be a soul de-incarnating and leaving the body a vegetable, an empty host. A slow fuck you to the world, alternative to suicide.

I think that there is much soul in the base of the spine.

I figure a lot of genetic memory must have literally sunken to the base of the spine. I think what lies latent there is pure successful drift, pure power, unnecessary for the days current tasks. But it can be awakened and then it will try to break into the regular action and this can cause severe damage to the bone and tendon structure as well as cause a lot of obstruction between organs - but ultimately it will cause a person to root deeper into the planet. The Earth is history, I mean history is the Earth - you need seasons for history, a tilted axis and you need a moon that influence the planets movement to such a degree that the waters are rhythmically moving - all this is required to properly record a progression of events.

Souls are eternal because they have no history - unless there is a layer of activity between timespace and absolute self-enclosedness. Disclose the self from itself by creating along with the tides and seasons, while of course doing this.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:21 pm

FC wrote:
I believe love exists only in acts. Loving equals expressing love.

To desire is to want to feel an aspect of oneself satisfied, to love is to want to see the other sustained in her/his self. Anyone who kills his love out of despair was simply unable to move from desire to love, and as this pressure grows inhuman, tried to find its resolution in total consummation of the other. It is likely that such a person feared that to truly love would be his own death, as love is indeed the end of an entity as it is and the beginning of a new life.

The idea of allowing the heart to be reborn can be far more frightening than the prospect of death, that is why hearts harden. Well one of the reasons. Victory is related to love, - the victorious is not afraid to smile - and to love is certainly to be victorious. Are you victorious? That means that the person you love is also victorious.

Desire happens to you, love is a choice. Most of the time we make it before the beta-mind registers, but it is still a fully conscious decision.

A decision can be conscious - an act of consciousness - before it is translated into "if-then" threshold-logic. Desire is wholly alpha (sensory flux) and deeper, love involves gamma waves and resonates in beta and involves - and evokes - gamma. Higher frequency patterns divide into different types far quicker and to greater diversity than lower ones, that is at least one way to explain why love is so much rarer and why you are more likely to run into it in environments resonating your higher frequency patterns, i.e. your conscious values.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:21 pm

FC wrote:
The person who has deep certainty can afford a life of uncertainty, as the certainty at the heart of every estimation and every action turns the uncertain into the unpredictable form of gain that is called luck. And we need luck, of all things most, to tie the tyranny of stupidity to the anchors of humility, which is the result of the cultural recognition of genius and spiritual authority.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:31 pm

Lyssa wrote:
FC wrote:

If we were to attempt to 'save' humanity from a tragic fate, we would do best to produce vessels of excess rather than eliminating the will to evolve as excess. But man has already been wise in this respect - however it is hard to contain such excessiveness. To contain all this force would require an enormous vessel, object of neutralization of excess, and of course art, and by extension the state (Rome) has fulfilled this function. Rome is the product of synthesized excess, and this is why it is forever pulsating and radiating its excessive self-value into the future and encompasses all our mere-political efforts to this day. It is why every grand political movement ends up being a function of Roman politics.

It is why America, at its height, resembles somewhat the majesty of Rome. We should applaud the immense drive to excess that emanates from America, including the hamburgers with two foot radius - the principle is that of life, whereas restrictive societies, such as the unspeakable crap down in the middle east, try to bring life back to the pre-excessive nature of the universe. Indeed, to 'heaven' and 'eternity' - a realm where man is no more or less than atom, where all men fit into the same 'table', where it is not the internal logic that determines the entity, but the logic of external pressure and requirement.


So here is a good paradigm to differentiate the pagan potlatch with modernity's 'accursed share' - Rome vs. America.


Satyr was saying somewhere else in response to this quote from wiki;


Quote :
"Deleuze and Guattari argue that desire is a positive process of production that produces reality. Since desire produces reality, social production, with its forces and relations, is "purely and simply desiring-production itself under determinate conditions."

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Satyr wrote:
"Reality, as in initeractivity, Flux....produces desire in a living organism which is ordering.
Production as ordering fluidity which makes it possible.

With the memetic precedence now, desire is producing reality; it's a reversal made possible due to human intervention.

I call those desires wants.

Once needs are easily satisfied to keep the human active, one must manufacture wants.
The method used is to inflate..

Desire is libidinal....procreation and creativity are its product.
To keep production going, when needs are easily satisfied, you stimulate the libido by offering an hyper fulfillment....to a need.

Like sex being inflated to an exaggerated point....
It becomes the end because the purpose of sex, reproduction, is easily met.
So, to maintain interest the act, the promised pelasure is blown out of proportion.

This produces a sense of insecurity in the individual....for two reasons....

1- he can never meeet the standards presented to him in the hyperbole...

2- he feels like he is wierd becasue he does not expreince anyhting extrordianry.

Drugs come in, to enhance the experience.

Take the car, as a object/objective, of desire.

It is conencted to mutiple needs within urban, manmade envirnments.

But it becomes mundane....once you purchase it, and satisfy those needs you lose interest.

Then the car must be made, itself, not an end, the object/objective- to buy a car for the sake of owning a car.
To deal with the disatisfaction this inevitably produces in the one who purchases a car...the buyers high gone after a week or two...,  the car is designed and made into something implynig something extrordinary.

In modern systems the energies are poooled.
Then no potlach...a mechanism must be found to keep the resources flowing.

In capitalism new resources must be constantly added into the system...resulting in what we have: excess, disharmony with nature, this equation of happiness with more consuming.
Since needs are easily satisfied and resources, no matter what, are pooled, then, in time, needs can no longer be easily satisfied in the lower strata (in the trickle down method), and so new sources for resources msut be continuuosly apropriated.

Potlatch is giving as a display....wasting resources as a way of showing that you can accumualte to waste more.

Modern systems pool energies.
The individual must be shamed to give somethnig to a cause.

He is made to feel obliged...

I think this is a recent thing that differentiates it from the pagan potlatch.
In the past they gave back by building monuments to their greatness.

But in modernity, instead 'philanthropic contributors' get a tax break.
And because the system is made to accumualte resouces, automatically, they cannot give away enough.
Marketing.
Feeding into the image of humanatarianism."

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:40 pm

Break it down and give me the short version, using your own voice, own mind, own thoughts, own feelings, own reaction.

No more quotes, use your brain, if you have one........
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:42 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Satyr wrote:
[size=12]"Potlatch is giving as a display....wasting resources as a way of showing that you can accumualte to waste more.

Modern systems pool energies.
The individual must be shamed to give somethnig to a cause.

He is made to feel obliged...

I think this is a recent thing that differentiates it from the pagan potlatch.
In the past they gave back by building monuments to their greatness.

But in modernity, instead 'philanthropic contributors' get a tax break.
And because the system is made to accumualte resouces, automatically, they cannot give away enough.
Marketing.
Feeding into the image of humanatarianism."
[size]


The pagan potlatch was connected in the Agon and the free-flow of his Thymos to his "person-ality", while the "excess return" of modern "philanthropic contributors" like Bill Gates, etc.
is severed from all destructive urge that characterized the pagan potlatch and so this circulated "hoarding" has no connection to one's person-ality, but one's "character" and role-play.
The modern's accursed share is unhooked from one's person-ality and deferred to a public character, his "charisma" or a universal ideal - humanitarianism, etc.

Satyr goes into this difference at another place here:

Satyr wrote:
"We might compare the Daemon as the innate self, the hidden, private self; the product of organ hierarchies creating a Personality.
The public Self is the Character we play to get along, to get by.

When the first has not been permitted to develop, is retarded, the public character is the only sense of Identity we have.
The tiny whisperings of the stunted personality are felt as a schizophrenic, self-consciousness - the Bicameral mind.
God, as the manifestation of our nature/past, talking to us.
Not, necessarily, with words, but imagery, sensations, feelings.

When the daemon is seen lurking behind dark eyes, or cowering in the background, trying to disappear from sight, the character becomes a secondary layer to the personae, the personality.
The perceptions are reversed, like when you look into a mirror.

Suddenly, the outer layer recedes into the background, like a suit, and from behind it the Personality, the daemon, emerges, fragile or strong, brave or cowardly, well-nourished or undernourished and then words become something else.

The "civilized" man, in this latter instance, is a man divided in himself - his personality other than his character (the private other than the public), the idea(l) in conflict with the real.

The experience similar to that of 'lost time' as in lost awareness of self (lost self) - temporal being another word for Becoming.
This "being" in the moment a metaphor for the shrinking of distances between one abstraction and the next, which constitutes the linear experience of reality as a chain of instances.

When this is intentional, or is known, then no schism is present - only control - but when the schism is actual, then the mind remains confused, unable to harmonize the different standards, the diverging world-views, into one entirety.
It's impulses cannot be focused.
It is duplicitous in itself - convinced by its own ruse - it says one thing and does another, justifying it after-the-fact with imaginative word-games.
It is in a state of internal antagonism - personality versus character.

The detachment of the word from the world, the noumenon from the phenomenon, lends itself to this practice.
The word referring to the book, the code, which may or may not refer back to a concept the mind is clear on...and it most certainly does not refer to anything sensed in the world if the concept is nihilistic.
Once this detachment is achieved, the instances create voids...fissures into the emptiness, demanding linguistic selves, words of salvation.

The spirit is ripped out of the body, as a thing-in-itself, and the ephemeral finds comfort in the fabricated eternal soul."

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:50 pm

Bataille wrote:
"Luxury still determines the rank of the one who displays it, and there is no exalted rank that does not require a display. But the petty calculations of those who enjoy luxury are surpassed in every way. In wealth, what shines through the defects extends the brilliance of the sun and provokes
passion.
It is not what is imagined by those who have reduced it to their own poverty; it is the return of life’s immensity to the truth of exuberance. This truth destroys those who have taken it for what it is not; the least that one can say is that the present forms of wealth make a shambles and a human mockery of those who think they own it. In this respect, present-day society is a huge counterfeit, where this truth of wealth has underhandedly slipped into extreme poverty.

The true luxury and the real potlatch of our times falls to the poverty-stricken, that is, to the individual who lies down and scoffs.
A genuine luxury requires the complete contempt for riches, the somber indifference of the individual who refuses work and makes his life on the one hand an infinitely ruined splendor and on the other, a silent insult to the laborious lie of the rich." [The Accurshed Share]


Satyr wrote:
"In the 'Accursed Share', Bataille makes the point, wealth was luxury expressing itself through expenditure.
The wealthy man returned the resources back into the economy, back into the system, just like in nature where the dominant male eventually returned himself back into the system he emerged form and then came to dominate.

Bataille remarks current Capitalist system pools resources never completely returning them back into the system. What is returned in the form of luxury and ostentatious symbolism, is not comparable to what is retained. Slowly wealth accumulates to such proportions that no single man, or his entire family, can spend it fast enough to maintain an equilibrium...a natural balance.
In nature this return of resources occurs automatically, at the dominant organism's death, or during its lifespan, as there is no way to accumulate and safeguard resources over a certain limit.

In man-made systems the entire structure is dedicated to preserving wealth and privilege, making this pooling of resources for time-spans beyond a single lifetime, depending on the stability of the system and the power of the family.

This is a miserly economic system, as it does not expend its excess energies, but saves them, expending only a small portion of them in luxury and display, or in the practice of maintaining its accumulated wealth (resources).
It is an unnatural practice...resulting in sudden release of energies once control can no longer sustain itself - this is Rrevolution."




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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:22 pm

Lyssa wrote:
FC wrote:

If we were to attempt to 'save' humanity from a tragic fate, we would do best to produce vessels of excess rather than eliminating the will to evolve as excess. But man has already been wise in this respect - however it is hard to contain such excessiveness. To contain all this force would require an enormous vessel, object of neutralization of excess, and of course art, and by extension the state (Rome) has fulfilled this function. Rome is the product of synthesized excess, and this is why it is forever pulsating and radiating its excessive self-value into the future and encompasses all our mere-political efforts to this day. It is why every grand political movement ends up being a function of Roman politics.

It is why America, at its height, resembles somewhat the majesty of Rome. We should applaud the immense drive to excess that emanates from America, including the hamburgers with two foot radius - the principle is that of life, whereas restrictive societies, such as the unspeakable crap down in the middle east, try to bring life back to the pre-excessive nature of the universe. Indeed, to 'heaven' and 'eternity' - a realm where man is no more or less than atom, where all men fit into the same 'table', where it is not the internal logic that determines the entity, but the logic of external pressure and requirement.


US vs. Rome...

I just recalled how Baudrillard differentiated modern 'proliferation' from 'excess':


Quote :
"We are now governed not so much by growth as by growths. Ours is a society founded on proliferation, on growth which continues even though it cannot be measured against any clear goals. An excrescential society whose development is uncontrollable, occurring without regard for self-definition, where the accumulation of effects goes hand in hand with the disappearance of causes. The upshot is gross systemic congestion and malfunction caused by hypertelia - by an excess of functional imperatives, by a sort of saturation. There is no better analogy here than the metastatic process in cancer: a loss of the body's organic ground rules such that a given group of cells is able to deploy its incoercible and murderous vitality, to defy genetic programming and to proliferate endlessly.

This process is not a critical one: crisis is always a matter of causality, of an imbalance between cause and effect to which a solution will be found (or not) by attending to causes. In our case, by contrast, it is the causes themselves that are tending to disappear, tending to become indecipherable, and giving way to an intensification of processes operating in a void.

Deficiency is never a complete disaster, but saturation is fatal, for it produces a sort of tetanized inertia.

The striking thing about all present-day systems is their bloatedness: the means we have devised for handling data - communication, record-keeping, storage, production and destruction - are all in a condition of Idemonic pregnancy' (to borrow Susan Sontag's description of cancer). So lethargic are they, indeed, that they will assuredly never again serve a useful purpose. It is not we that have put an end to use-value - rather, the system itself has eliminated it through surplus production. So many things have been produced and accumulated that they can never possibly all be put to use. So many messages and signals are produced and disseminated that they can never possibly all be read. A good thing for us too - for even with the tiny portion that we do manage to absorb, we are in a state of permanent electrocution.

There is something particularly nauseating about this prodigious useless­ness, about a proliferating yet hypertrophied world which cannot give birth to anything. So many reports, archives, documents - and not a single idea generated; so many plans, programmes, decisions - and not a single event precipitated; so many sophisticated weapons produced - and no war declared!

This saturation goes way beyond the surplus that Bataille spoke of; all societies have found some way to dispose of that through useless or sump­tuous expense. There is no possible way for us to spend all that has been accumulated - all we have in prospect is a slow or brutal decompensation, with each factor of acceleration serving to create inertia, bringing us closer to absolute inertia. What we call crisis is in fact a foreshadowing of this absolute inertia." [Baudrillard, The Transparency of Evil]


This is the blind and extreme potlatch... unhooked to any person-ality and spilling cancerously beyond any borders.

Deleuze can then thus speak of, "Since desire produces reality, social production, with its forces and relations, is "purely and simply desiring-production itself under determinate conditions."

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:27 pm

Neon wrote:
Break it down and give me the short version, using your own voice, own mind, own thoughts, own feelings, own reaction.

No more quotes, use your brain, if you have one........

Neon, so many obsessed bitches have followed and keep following me, begging to be owned...
I don't even have to wave a leash.

I'll count you as one of them.

Anything more,,, get a token and stand in queue.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:47 pm

You get a little angry when your copy paste, that difficult, difficult intellectual ability of yours, gets interrupted.

I wonder if it takes you longer to copy paste than it does for me to write actual ideas, myself, without help. You help me feel good about myself, redeemed, after I realize that some people, or maybe 99.9% of humanity, cannot think for themselves.

Producers of ideas
Consumers of ideas
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:25 pm

Lyssa's talent, her genius, is in first appreciation content and then putting it in the correct context once she's evaluated it and understood it.
This is a necessary first step before one can even begin to then go further and create his own interpretations of the world.  

Someone who only tries to do the second, without having a clue as to how to achieve the first, produces gibberish.

Having a penis only indicates a potential characteristic of a type...not what potential is attained by the specific member of that type.

There are females and Negroes far superior, intellectually, than the average white boy....especially in this day and age.

What race-mixing, and uncontrolled reproduction means is a process of Dysgenics.
In the first case, thousands of years of evolution, and near extinction, having selected certain traits, is lost by dilution.
In the second, thousands of years of monogamy, humanism, have permitted dysfunctional genes to propagate, lowing the quality of the whole.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:39 pm

Lyssa obviously feels shameless about copy and pasting. Maybe even proud of herself, that she is useful. I have tested this for awhile now. Maybe females feel a little guilty or "bad" about this accusation. But I have yet to see a female produce content.

At least Echo, on ILP, could author her own threads and responses. So that was something special. However, the more I delved into her mindset, the more I realized she was a proxy for Detrop. She was spouting his ideals through association, not "her own".

I have never seen a female with her "own" ideas, because to have ownership of an idea, implies accountability, self responsibility, and therefore, morality. Which females as a whole seem to lack.

Females have accidental ideas. Women think by accident, not on purpose. Because their ideas are never owned. Or, at least they would never take ownership of their own ideas.


What I've been looking for, online for the previous 10 years, was a female who authored her own ideas and content. This should be easy. But it's not. It's difficult, for them, to have ideas, think about existence, rationalize, debate, argue, write, speak, reason, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:06 pm

What's interesting is that Lyssa managed to do what FC wouldn't do upon request by me. I certainly don't blame him, but my assumption is that he would have if it was something that would have taken him a very limited time.

Starting with Sartre and having a limited understanding of him, because if nothing else I had studied no one else, least of all those with a remotely similar foundation, to add perspective. Both Satyr and FC's metaphysics has long been on my mind. I'm just beginning to grasp Satyr's metaphysics, and compare and contrast it to what I long knew, but through entirely different terminology, in Sartre. I may have nothing more to say in this thread, or on the topic of FC's metaphysics for months, but I intent on reading this thread. I'm open minded as I begin, but I expect it be done in the form of finding where FC's metaphysics is lacking in comparison.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:59 pm

On the contrary, Lyssa did what I can't do: estimate what I've written.  I don't remember every thought I write down - if I write well on something it's because I write as a form of passion  (although that moment stretches quite a bit of curvature along with it) I synthesize as I go. Of course Value Ontology remains constant, but this is the first and only conceptual constant I have had in my thinking since I realized that, if the scientific criterium is not forced upon the daily world, the world behaves magically, responding directly to intent, much like a fruit responds to being selected and squeezed. This notion is quite frightening because it suggests that thoughts have far greater consequences than one is taught, and this awareness in turn causes thoughts to have a much increased effect. Species are often being lured into new modes of vision by negatively valuing what they perceive by them - even if in the end it may not at all be convenient. "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome". Modes of vision; to keep children away from certain types of images so that their minds develop without having to remain connected to the inevitable consequences presented as those images. To arrive at a mode of vision at the right time; to learn to see once one has the means to respond to what one sees, this is fortune, this is what makes a prosperous life on the peaks of ripples of power. The other, to learn to see far before one has the means to respond, is the way of the disciple, for good or evil. Philosophers are of this breed, scientists, military careers are built on the will trained to long distance perspectives. Collateral to this lack-driven will; failures, fools, the mentally ill, pathological recluses and addicts. And the last, to arrive at a mode of vision long after one has acquired the means to respond to it is either cowardice or simple blissful humanity.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:06 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
On the contrary, Lyssa did what I can't do: estimate what I've written.  I don't remember every thought I write down - if I write well on something it's because I write as a form of passion  (although that moment stretches quite a bit of curvature along with it) I synthesize as I go.
I do the same.

And when I read the parts click together, and I forget the rest.
I do not remember the specific author or what book it was in, but the idea is absorbed into my own premises, and I often use my own words - symbols and metaphors - to integrate the ideas into my own cohesive whole.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:38 am

I'm very aware how memories are formed.

But Fixed Cross, are you telling me that somebody actually takes the time to read these torrents of copy paste shit that Lyssa regurgitates? Props to you, because, I don't have the time to waste. I value my own thoughts first and foremost. What is the context of this copy paste?

Who does Lyssa think for? Who does she copy and paste for? Who does she hope to impress, who to inspire?

It certainly is not me. So it must be somebody else. Satyr? Fixed Cross? Another member of the forum perhaps?

I can presume at least one fact here.


She does it for a reason. She doesn't do it completely mindlessly, completely indiscriminately. And if I spent some time on Lyssa, then I'm sure it wouldn't take long to dissect her rationale. She wants to impress somebody, and most assuredly, somebody who already impressed her.

This is too easy.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:48 am

Respectfully, I have no idea who you are and all I know of you is that you come into a thread and talk about it without having read it, and then seem to think that this talk is somehow more to some point, more content-rich than the thread you haven't read and yet are responding to. Not a first impression that prompts me to think should consider your intellectual capacities.

Maybe you can read the quotes and see if you can understand what's being said. After that you could perhaps make an informed comment on the value of the quotes and the quoting. Or maybe we can just wait until we meet again in a thread where you have actually said something. I'll leave that up to you.

I will assume that you do not actually think that the main criterion for quality of thought is whether or not the words you speak come out of your own mouth. Most of what is being uttered on any forum is without any value except the relief of expression. What you have just said does not constitute original thought, whereas the quotes do. Quoted thoughts, but actual thinking going on.

Would you not rather have a printed copy of a philosophy book than a hand written pile of graffiti?
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:39 am

Satyr wrote:
This is a miserly economic system, as it does not expend its excess energies, but saves them, expending only a small portion of them in luxury and display, or in the practice of maintaining its accumulated wealth (resources).

And in doing so it is the precise opposite of life. The reason why it survives is that it has no natural enemy, as only life has natural enemies.

The human world could be brought back to life by turning the miserly behavior on its head, by expending. It has vast resources to expend, but no men who are capable of expending luxuriously. Yet this is the only hope for mankind, for the whole Earthly ecosystem in fact, that man learns to project outward his accumulated riches and turn them into value - i.e. subjective, experiential, living worth. But for this, the 'whole of mankind' would need to be of a different substance - all utilitarian political-economic thought would have to go out the window, from Libertarianism to Marxism with everything in between.

Utility is not the essence of value, utilitarianism is an infertile approach to value. This at least was understood by the Catholic Church, probably only as being an extension of Rome. It has, in the past, also been understood by French, German, American and Russian statesmen. But it is radically denied by the economic superstructure of which we are now unnatural parts. We probably need to resort back to forms of radical nationalism, not in terms of violence but in terms of pride in what we can build.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:52 pm

Lyssa created this thread, not Fixed Cross.

I simply wonder the rationale behind this. Why did she quote this, and put it here, opposed to Fixed Cross doing it himself? This is the underlying assumption.

And with female copy paste threads, females do not initiate philosophical discussion on their own topics. So this really is a blank slate thread. How can you go off topic what has no aim? And there is no aim, no intent behind the words. Who is the intended audience?

That said, I would read and consider "value ontology" if the words came from Fixed Cross himself. Or he himself could post his threads here. Instead Lyssa does a mindless errand.

I won't bother future copy and paste threads. Since they have no direction, I have no further reasons or causes to participate in them.

Consider this a simple psychoanalysis of this particular example. Lyssa and Fixed Cross obviously have a connection of some sort. I have no further interest in exploring this.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:57 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
all I know of you is that you come into a thread and talk about it without having read it,
How do you know that Lyssa read it???

You don't.....that's why I detest copy paste "female thinkers". There is no proof of understanding behind the person who copy and pastes a large text.

Just because I copy and taste a text, put it on the forum, doesn't mean I've read it.


Threads without context are problematic. And very un philosophical. At least a copy paste could attempt to instigate some form of debate, interpretation, perspective, props to the author, appeal, provision for specific others.

Lyssa regularly gives nothing.


What is the context?

And before you critique me again, FC, why aren't you speaking for yourself? Why don't you promote your own value ontology here? Do you need Lyssa to do this for you? And at least, aren't you impressed that she respects you enough that she speaks for you?

She memorizes your ideas and carriers them, pasting them for others.

However, I obviously don't know who Lyssa hopes to speak to.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:57 pm

Æon wrote:
Lyssa created this thread, not Fixed Cross.

I simply wonder the rationale behind this.  Why did she quote this, and put it here, opposed to Fixed Cross doing it himself?  This is the underlying assumption.

Why is this relevant to this topic, and why do you give a shit?

if you want to discuss Lyssa, start a thread. I started it for you.
It's in the Dungeon.

If you have nothing constructive to say about the topic, it is best to shut your yap, because now you are beginning to irritate me.
Your penis means nothing, boy, when you offer nothing but about how you are a philosopher and women are not.

Being European does not make you automatically smarter than all Negroes...and being a male does not make you automatically smarter than all females.
Keep shitting every thread, like your buddy LaughingStock does, and you know where you will go.
Maybe he'll join you there, and you can both go back to ILP, where you belong.

Many of your friends are there.

If you are obsessed with Lyssa, contact her privately, like LaughingStock and many others did.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:46 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Satyr wrote:
This is a miserly economic system, as it does not expend its excess energies, but saves them, expending only a small portion of them in luxury and display, or in the practice of maintaining its accumulated wealth (resources).

And in doing so it is the precise opposite of life. The reason why it survives is that it has no natural enemy, as only life has natural enemies.

The human world could be brought back to life by turning the miserly behavior on its head, by expending. It has vast resources to expend, but no men who are capable of expending luxuriously.

In a more enriching sense, Capitalism in terms of acquisition was the will to making something proper-ly one's own - proper-ty...

Spengler wrote:
""Capitalism" is in no sense a form of economy or a "bourgeois" method of making money. It is a way of looking at things." ...the Nordic will to acquire property, will-to-power through property... "Left" is, finally and above all, lack of respect for property - although no race has so strong an instinct of possession as the Germanic, and that precisely because it has been the strongest-willed of all historical races. Will-to-possession is the Nordic meaning of life. It controls and shapes our whole history, commencing from the conquering expeditions of semi-mythical kings down to the form of the family at the present day, which dies when the idea of property fades out. Where the instinct for this is lacking, "race" is not." [The Hour of Decision, 3]

What does it mean to have Property? What does it mean to be a Master?

To be Master, means Self-Possession First.
The Desire to Appropriate Yourself as Property to Yourself. Heidegger calls this Dasein - Be-ing means coming into what's Proper-ly One's Own.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Fixed Cross



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:24 am

An interesting view. Astrologically then, the Germanic race would be on the Taurus-Scorpio axis. In esoteric/Theosophic astrology, this is attributed to ray 4 of Harmony through Conflict, the ray of art and immersion in difficult conditions.

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I would associate the original Indo-Aryan culture with Aries, "I am".
Of course Taurus is ruled by Venus and exalts the Moon, it is thus a Goddess-sign, and it was the constellation under which the spring began in the time of the Mother cults, most notably Taurean being the Minoan civilization.





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Fixed Cross



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:31 am

Although as you point out, Moon is (still) Masculine in German, and Sun is Feminine. This again points to a predominance of the Feminine is the German reverence-cultus which makes perfect sense for a Masculine culture.

The Taurus-Scorpio axis can be seen as accumulation of self first and then, due to the richness of this accumulated self and the scope of what it pertains to, being completely overwhelmed (good attribution) by otherness later. Taurus is of all signs best able to value, thus it is also least able to reject value, even if it is largely alien. Why Europe is so slow in coming to its own defenses, and why, when it does, the means is a complete overhaul of value, a total negation of the prevailing trend. The concept revolution was invented in Europe. It is vital enough to carry though internal dialectic, to endure that suffering.

The response to the bland unity Europe is the glorification of the diversity Europe. The only way in which Europe can be united is in its fierce assertion of internal differences. This is what makes Europe different from West-Asian cultures, and what also characterized Rome - its tolerance of imported ethnic religions, ultimately underestimating the force the religion that contradicts this multi-facetedness of nature. As we still underestimate the power of the One God. This God needs to be actively negated. A focus must be brought on the 'scattering of God in a thousand pieces'.

All these pieces are Gods in their own right - 'proper' Gods, cultural benefactors, blessings.

"Count your blessings" - a Taurus command.



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:14 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:


The Taurus-Scorpio axis can be seen as accumulation of self first and then, due to the richness of this accumulated self and the scope of what it pertains to, being completely overwhelmed (good attribution) by otherness later.

My whole aesthetics is a Plutonicism. Self-possession is the truest wealth, and that emergence of consciousness from the hidden tremors I ascribe to pluto; the Venetian taurus is materialistic comfort and 'acquisition' - not proper-ty.
Pluto strips to the bare minimum, till there's nothing left but the irreducible self. It is ruthless self-severity.
Venetian comfort is a feeling of security that acquisitions give, and the need for such security. The plutonic is self-secure.

Taurus - I resist. [unshakeable security]
Scorpio - Otherness overwhelms me.  [Assessment of self and other in terms of power, and staying master.]

Taurus is Apollonian, it Resists.
Scorpio is Dionysian, it Seeks Resistances.

Therefore Sagg. - Otherness thinks me [because I have dominated it in scorp., it now thinks in terms of my values] is how I would continue your scheme.

Since, I'm pro-Pluto, I speak with bias.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


Last edited by Lyssa on Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:54 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Thirsty



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:17 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Since, I'm pro-Pluto, I speak with bias.

Every source of information is biased.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:08 am


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:51 am

A rock is self-valuing?
God in the rock

What?
Value with no judgment...
Self preceding the emergence of self.
Even a rock, has a sense of self, it values this self and it resists destruction.

Christians called it love. Love, the emotion, mystified...made into a pure ontology = God.

Where the fuck is that face-palming emoticon?

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:39 am

Sloterdijk, Peter wrote:
In the meantime, terrestrial globalization has decentred the city of cities too, turning the metaphysical broadcasting headquarters of the Old European globe into a location among locations.
One should not underestimate the fact that the fifty-six men who signed the American Declaration of Independence of 4 July 1776, almost all of them freemasons and amateur metaphysicians, refer to the evidence first, only then declaring the human rights – as if they had intuitively understood that attempts to break away from Europe do not succeed unless the truth is conveyed across the Atlantic first: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.’ For the anthropological commune of the Global Age, however, a metaphysical ground of unity in the manner of the ‘divine
presence’ which Voegelin claims inhabits every soul is no longer in sight.
A different medium of universal coexistence will therefore have to be found.

The Second Ecumene broke open the universals of the first in all directions. It labelled both the Christian and the Greek conceptions of the world, with their supposed logical evidence, provincial – however vehemently they insisted on their universality.
Christianity too had to face being told of its particularity, and time will tell whether it will manage to expand its authority through attempts to become a ‘world ethos’ – a project on which Hans Küng and others are working with the élan of belated Church Fathers.
This much is certain, however: none of the so-called world religions can qualify as the Great Vehicle for all factions of humanity. In the long term, every one of them will have difficulty keeping its shares on the global market of metaphysical needs, and the prospects for synthetic universal religions of practically implanting a unified language or final vocabulary for the anthropological commune are non-existent.
Under these circumstances, it seems plausible to lower the requirements for the concept of a ground
of unity for the species.
What the Second Ecumene can learn from the First, at least, is that it will not do to invoke biological ‘foundations’ as a ground of unity for mankind – not even after the emergence of a younger, politically correct genetics that affords all humans a place in a largely homogeneous gene pool. This Adamitic racism is a delusional system whose structure is similar to all earlier biological collectivisms, even if genetic arguments are now no longer used to discriminate between races, but rather to unify them.
Consequently, the Second Ecumene too will be able to formulate the ‘unity of the human race’ – to adopt the language of the eighteenth century for one moment – not through a shared physis, but only through a shared situation. The situation can only be determined ecologically and immunologically, and it points everywhere to the compulsion to civilize cultures. This means that none of the life forms in local traditions are adequate to the new situation with only their onboard means.
The ‘unity of humans’ in their scattered species is now based on the fact that all of them, in their respective regions and histories, have become synchronized, affected from a distance, shamed, torn open, connected and overtaxed: locations of a vital illusion, addresses of capital, points in the homogeneous space to which one returns and which return to themselves – more seen than seeing,
more acquired than acquiring, more reached than reaching. Every person must now, in returning to themselves, make sense of the advantage or disadvantage of being who they are.
‘Mankind’ after globalization consists mostly of those left behind in their own skins, victims of the locational disadvantage of oneself.
The development of the world has, without any philosophy, shifted people away from the middle in an unexpected fashion. In the course of globalization, they not only experience themselves as antiquated, as some theorists of alienation have lamented, but now actually perceive themselves as located on the outside – beings looking at themselves from without, not knowing whether anyone will be at home when they want to get into their own places.

If the exemplary human in the First Ecumene was the wise man who meditated on his dysfunctional relationship with the absolute, and the saint who could feel closer to God than ordinary sinners through grace, then the exemplary human in the Second Ecumene is the world star who will never understand why they had more success than other people, and the anonymous thinker who opens themselves up to the two key experiences of the age: firstly, to constantly recommencing ‘revolutions’ as the ‘presentations of the infinite in the here and now’,6 and secondly, to the shame which affects every thinking life today more than original sin: never rebelling enough against the ubiquitous degradation of all that lives.

On the last orb, the location of the Second Ecumene, there will be no sphere of all spheres – neither an informatically produced nor a world-state sphere, let alone a religious one (for anyone who would join Habermas and Ratzinger in relying on the unifying power of religion would need to be more resilient to disappointment than the people of today).

Even the super-inclusive system of the Internet, as manifold as its potential might be, inevitably produces a complementary super-exclusivity. The orb consisting only of a surface is not a house for all, but rather an epitome of markets on which no one can be ‘at home’; no one is meant to settle where money, commodities and fictions are changing hands. The global market is a concept for the realization (and demand) that all suppliers and customers should meet in a general externality. As long as the global market or global markets exist, all speculations on the recovery of a domestically or capital city-centred circumspection in an integral interior of humanity are doomed to failure.
If the Middle Ages already proved incapable of placing the world orb and the orb of God within each other concentrically,7 modernity would only produce even more folly if it attempted the hubristic project of integrating the multitude of cultural and entrepreneurial locations as sub-spheres within a concentrically built monosphere.

Marshall McLuhan seems to have underestimated this when he embraced the vision of the global village for a time, before disappointment had caught up with him: ‘The media extensions of man are the hominization of the planet.’
Today, such words could not even be repeated in missionary sects. As generous as the media theorists expectations were, the dying-out of imperial-centrist world-form creations also destroyed the basis for electronic Catholicism (the central position of the sender).
The last orb allows further constructs only in the horizontal – which does not rule out individual high-rise buildings. It stimulates neighbourhoods, joint ventures and intercultural transactions under artificial, not overly steep skies; it demands forums, podiums, canopies, patronages, alliances and sponsorships; it favours gatherings of interest groups at tables of different formats in conference rooms of graduated sizes. In future, it will no longer support the idea of a super-monosphere or a power-holding.

We can file Humanarchy under the heading "hominization" where even rocks attain an anthropomorphic spirit of self-valuing, resiting disunity by willfully putting up a fight...a world of ghosts and spirits, where stones have life.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:54 am

You organicist.
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Lockland



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:23 pm

My answer to the question posed here, what does it mean to be a master, is simple: to be without slaves. But this includes without slave to oneself. If I recall rightly the origin of this word slave was very much like the word addict ("addictum" perhaps) and referred to someone who was temporary slave in order to work to pay off debt. In other words "addict" is synonymous with "slave" and means to be a slave to oneself, ones needs, wants. To be without either, to the extent that this is possible, is to be a master. Most important master is master over oneself. I've seen a form of this idea, where the inner state is characterized as a Monarchy, where this produces a want/acceptance/affinity for external anarchy. Basically the more someone is wounded the more they want to control others, so theoretically if all or most in a given place reached this state on inside, then this society could exist as an anarchy.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:32 pm

All (inter)actions establishes a hierarchy, a power relationship....
In nature it is more fluid...inorganic being more fluid than organic - the latter because ti is self-organizing which means it seeks to be more ordered, more stable, more consistent, the former, the inanimate, being unconscious, and not self-organizing, not self anything, but following the turbulent baths-of-least-resistance.

In human systems this hierarchy is further solidified, made more rigid, by institutionalizing it....abstracting it into a symbol.

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