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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:34 pm

People gravitate to me because I show them, not tell, them, what has been in front of them their entire life, and they could not, or did not, for whatever reason, understand it - understand, in my philosophy, means finding a pattern, in the knowledge.

My agreement, or not, with Nietzsche, or any icon you want to submit to, is not my goal.
Who cares if she, or you, or anybody understands Nietzsche, or thinks he does, more than me, when I last read him, ten years ago...and not like Ollie spent the better part of my adult life reading and rereading, and rereading him?
A monk, stuck in a monastery, studying the Bible would have shown less mania.

I deal with reality, directly, and if another has agreed, or disagreed, is a secondary matter, for me.
I do not study thinkers and thinking, nor value valuing...I study reality, world, people.
Telling me I do not agree, or that I do agree, with another thinker is only interesting, not decisive, primarily because even that evaluation/judgment is yours, and may, or may not, be accurate.

Nothing petrifying about my views.
But you may be petrified by them.

My first comment on your psyche is that you want me to tell you something I've already alluded to and you felt its truth. But you want to dismiss it, and so you ask for more, so that in the process I make some trivial mistake, because I've only had a long-distance contact with you, you can then use to disregard everything else I've said.

The second thing to note is your reaction to me calling people "retards" and how this must have some impact upon you, personally.
You admitted that you only seek friends...meaning you have few in your immediate environment, something you share with those you consider friends on-line.
You do not really care for philosophy, but only how ideas can make you happy - hedonism - either through power or communion.  
Loneliness, isolation, is a motivator, which would also explain how you remain un-phased by everything I and Lyssa have told you about VO and how it relates to KT and its own positions.
You call it "deep" but the depth is inside you - the need, making you disregard the ambiguities, the blatant arrogance, the similarities with other thinkers, which is replaced with the idea that here is a great power, a unique ideology, only you can belong to first.
This, by itself, points to a desire to stand apart, and yet not be alienated.
To be a part of something more than what you have and cannot relate to.
But that's a natural byproduct of an above-average intellect.
The rest is anxiety succumbing to libido.    

Understanding people is not magic...it only requires information, knowledge - then finding the unifying pattern is where the talent, the art, factors in.
Presence, and the other not being defensive, as you are, and you expose it by making the preemptive first attack, calling me defensive, are important factors.

From the vids I notice you are a soft spirit, delicate.
And your motive was known to me the moment you appeared.
See, your Messiah copies more than ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Cool. Thank you. That is mostly spot on.

I meant petrifying as in setting in stone, not as in fear inducing.

Whether you read much Nietzsche or not, or put stock by him or not, as I do and clearly Lyssa does, you show a lot of convergence with his stated ideas.

The only difference I have with this fantastic analysis is that I do care for philosophy, and the hedonism you mentioned is a function only. I have not yet met my match in philosophy, and in that level, I give not a shit about originality. And, yes, Jakob has a higher philosophical level than I have seen here at all. Not to mention the other members of BTL.

Thank you for your honesty. Intelligence is always a sure sign of the capacity for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:55 pm

I first read Nietzsche in my late twenties...and haven't read him since....I obviously come into contact with his positions when I deal with people on-line, who are obsessed with him.
My goal is not to be a Nietzsche scholar, or to discuss about thinking, or about an other thinking about world.

My usage of mentors is as a validating second-opinion, after I've made a preliminary diagnosis.
This is why my words are my own, and I do not adhere to any formal school of thought.

Pretty words.
Crypto-Christianity hides in nice words, and academic jargon.
Using words to impress, and to effect, always exposes a desire.  

No, you care about philosophy like an art-critique cares about art, and a gossip columnist cares about the people he is exposing.
Why would I think you did not "value" Jacob and the cult, more than Satyr and KT?

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:03 pm

Yes, I am full of desires. I seek a lot in life.

As I said, you copy, you validate, the only thing that matters to moi is the end product. I do like your characterization of how I value philosophy, as it is nobler to recieve than to give. You were right when I came in: "they always take more than they give."

You wouldn't, if you had any sense. I have stated clearly what it is I value about this forum. It troubles me that this would offend or otherwise offput you.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:06 pm

Ha!!
Your honesty is self-valuing.
Self-referential...only self has been defined for you, by another...a charlatan looking for his own identity and validation.

One attracts and finds those of his own kind.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:16 pm

Self referential but, as has been developped in BTL, A is lesser than greater than A, rather than equal to. What I am referring to already refers to other things, just as with you. That you value yourself as white refers to a series of values you hold apart from white. These values can be more or less fine, and generally this kind of European supremacism does not indicate very fine valuing, and thus indicates maybe some other reasons to look at it, rather than discernment, which is philosophy.

But perhaps I give away too much, I am being too blatant. I tend to believe that Chaos will take its due once all sharpness is exhausted, but ladies don't work with these standards, they cannot value chaos, and as I am here to garner posts from a lady, I will rethink my approach. Hopefully you will become much greater in your philosophizing and want a philosophical stand off with me some day.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:22 pm

No, what I value in myself as sex and race kis my past/nature, as I am the manifestation of this past, made presence.
I am ignorant of my entire past/nature, and so Know Thyself is out motto.

My values are rooted in what I prefer about my past, not ignoring what I do not prefer.
Maybe your problem is arrogance...it smells of insecurity.
I haven't seen much in you to justify it.

Chaos is randomness....out of randomness the new Big Bang emerges.

Hopefully you will actually say something of value, and I can appreciate you more.

Looping loopiness.
You are your own evidence.
Such power in masturbation ....such independence.
The other is worthless.
You are appreciating self, valuing value, to escape the paradox.





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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:29 pm

A last tid-bit you can teach me later, using different words...

Since chaos is increasing randomness, and an organism is ordering, in relation/reaction to it, then cosmos is becoming counter-intuitive, in relation to human intuition....so mystery, is never lost, and the gods are always on stand-by to help a fragile species cope.
Man remains humble before it, or he falls into the abyss of his immense hubris, and is trapped there, in his own ego - need the bars of his prison.
He speaks words echoed back to his ears, and he believes he is god, or speaking with Him - schizophrenia.

I work tomorrow...and the bombs explode in Paris.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:28 am

Quid pro Quo

Before we proceed to "cooking", some preliminary steps of marinating the meat to make it tender and delicious.

Give me a short list of 3 reasons why VO is not like Igor's views, and a short demonstration of its superiority.
Three will do for now.  
In what way does VO differ from Igor's metaphysics, making it revolutionary, and the next step in philosophy?

Then, if possible, I want to be shown a "value".
I can show a pattern, but a value not a mental evaluation in reference to an idea(l), or a value not a linguistic/mathematical tool, a symbol, I have not seen.
Is it esoteric, mystical, magical? Is it a word replacing another word, to appear new and fresh?

Until then consider me "stewing"....
Linguistic Jujitsu, which the Messiah practices for display, striking air, and blowing out hard, hot air...to impress.
The more your cult declares yourselves this or that, the more you expose what you really are - a stink of need, of compensation, about you.

If not, continue as you have.
I enjoy the show.
Igor likes.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:53 pm

Come out, come out, you magic users...you undefeated Jujitsu practitioners of words.
Come out Messiahs, show me your salvation, your message.
Try your magic upon the base Igor.

Come and add my flock to your numbers.
Grow by exposing me as what I am -  I am easy prey, feed on me.

I have gotten the smell of you...I want to sniff further.
Come Nietzsche experts, you who know what it means to be a true Greek, what it means to see/feel world.
Come test your teeth upon my flesh, you who fear being punched in the mouth.
My blood is spilling, will you not lap it up?
I am weak, I am old, I am ready to be taken and consumed.
Come and save me from my "misery" you happy ones, you rightful inheritors of pain; shed light into my darkness, you bringers of "light", lead those who have been seduced by my aura, my "crying", away, towards the sunrise, the daybreak...come....come...come.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:23 am


Lyssa wrote:
pezer wrote:
´To say, "I take my own "positive existence" as standard", gives the right to any retard to to blissfully take his existing as a positive.´

A soul not ready for any retard to do this is not strong for it. Neh?

We must not shun those who seek to die, but help them!" (Deep paraphrase). Why not help retards be retards? And any valuing be as it values? Certainly, a higher value would be needed to aplacate it. Which such value does this forum propose? Lol, anyway, just wanted to make the point about loving difference whereever it may be found. I am great, because others are not.

Firstly, if religion exists to do that, then your question is really asking the question, why do philosophy at all? What's the point of philosophy and how is it different from a religious need if all is already assured of its holiness? Doesn't the 8-fold path of Buddhism [right view, right thinking, etc.] accomplish the mind-full self-valuing through sheer discipline more effectively and honestly than any ontology so far, in that, it never had to lie that the self was any kind of unity…?
The difference between the Jupiter in Sagg. and that in Pisces, is one between religious philosophy and philosophical religion.
Philosophy is about evaluating values and ranks with the aim of evolutionary goal-settings, the creation of law and standards and the production of Types that breach them through conservation.
Exceptions thriving on the rule.
From the standpoint of philosophy then, the aim will be to widen the distance between the philosophical need [distinction] and a religion one [unifying, collapsing].


2.
(1) There is a difference between the natural self-preservatory instinct of something, even the most base parasite and mindless creature, and (2) a moral philosophy giving such a one the Right to do so [VOt], as opposed to (3) an amoral philosophy creating the conditions where such a one may test and Find his right to do so [WTP].
If value-differentiations are to even be perceptible to be valued for their diversity, you need the most neutral and undifferentiated background, which is what the WTP is.
It is only in the neutrality of a power background, only in the precedence of power, that we attain a diversity of values, of self-valuings each acc. to its own internal constitution.
Its only in the background of power, everything Will and can be Made to genuinely self-value.
Its only because the will to power is undifferentiated, power tends to differentiate itself into a self-valuing, creating that gulf between those who (self-)value in terms of power as a blind force, as mere survivalism and those who do so in terms of power becoming so conscious of itself, that it disempowers itself over the concern with everything else but simply being oneself - i.e. max. self-integrity/integration. (Or as Evola put it, "the desire for power eludes real power.")
The "groundlessness" of the innocence of becoming alone assures and grounds the ground of the most affirmative Being as it compels us to take both the greatness and the terribleness together, both the blind nature of where the WTP could lead, as well as the apollonian dream of max/ 'eternity' that can be attained.

If Heidegger feared the technological nihilism ensuing from the blind WTP [Dionysian nihilism of postmodernity], the hedonistic placement of value before power and VOt of max. self-security creates the opposite kind of nihilism [Apollonian nihilism of modernity]:

Nietzsche wrote:
"Supposing all danger, the cause of fear, could be abolished, this morality would therewith also be abolished: it would no longer be necessary, it would no longer regard itself as necessary! ‑ He who examines the conscience of the present‑day European will have to extract from a thousand moral recesses and hiding‑places always the, same imperative, the imperative of herd timidity: `we wish that there will one day no longer be anything to fear!' One day everywhere in Europe the will and way to that day is now called `progress'." [BGE, 201]

He means the progress of that herd-imperative of abs. self-security would make its own self redundant, and thus be the abolishment of all diversity.

The placement of value before power, a ground in the face of groundlessness at the ontological level, makes it a religion, an ontotheism, not a philosophy or an ontology.


3. My take on the model of the world is Nietzschean, in as much it is the apollo-affirmative Dionysian view of excess. This means, I regard the very idea along with N., that Spinoza's conatus/self-preservation as basis, starting from the un-natural premise of substituting "Nature=God" [opposed to natural "Nature=Chaos"], is not only false, but also the most hedonistic rendering of man and world.
Even if VOt claims to believe in no absolute God, as long as it,
(1) retains the conatal self-preservation as the highest positive within a Leibnizian model, and,
(2) substitutues Heraclitus instead of Spinoza to wishfully argue for a Theopanism ['all is holy' - God-liness],
(3) Leibnizes Spinoza to retain individual monads as God(s)
nothing has really changed in such clever word-games.

Nietzsche wrote:
"It can be shown most clearly that every living thing does everything it can not to preserve itself but to become more-" [WTP, 688]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Physiologists should think before putting down the instinct of self-preservation as the cardinal instinct of an organic being. A living thing seeks above all to discharge its strength—life itself is will to power; self-preservation is only one of the indirect and most frequent results . In short, here as everywhere else, let us beware of superfluous teleological principles!—one of which is the instinct of self-preservation." [BGE 13; cf. Z: 2 "On Self-Overcoming"; WTP 650]

Nietzsche wrote:
"The wish to preserve oneself is the symptom of a condition of distress, of a limitation of the really fundamental instinct of life which aims at the expansion of power and, wishing for that, frequently risks and even sacrifices self-preservation. Our modern natural sciences have become so thoroughly entangled in this dogma (most recently and worst of all Darwinism with its incomprehensibly one-sided doctrine of the "struggle for existence"). But in nature it is not conditions of distress that are dominant, but overflow and squandering, even to the point of absurdity. The struggle for existence is only an exception, a temporary restriction of the life-will. The great and small struggle always revolves around superiority, around growth and expansion, around power—in accordance with the will to power which is the will of life." [JW, 349; cf. TL 2; Z: 2 "On Self-Overcoming"; BGE 262; GM II:11; TOI "Skirmishes" 14, 44]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Great health - a health that one not only has but constantly acquires and must acquire, because one again and again relinquishes it, must relinquish it!" [JW, Colli M, ed. KSA 2]

ER [eternal recurrence] was meant to be a European equivalent to Buddhism, a 'nothingness' in the sense of a 'ground(less) 0', where everything would be forced to expose itself exactly for what it is - the herd as herd and master as master. The neutral 'ground' that could allow the most closest approximation of Being and Becoming, and thus act as a selective and purifying principle.
VOt preposits everything as already holy, be-ing as already a valuable standard, and thus forms a self-circularity, instead of creating the selecting conditions for the emergence of those heroes and masters who would elevate themselves and life along with them, to close the circuit between be-ing and becoming. VOt blunts this selective pressure. It takes Away the momentuous pressure of one to become - that is to say, come to be-ing a self-rolling wheel, by already positing every entity as a self-rolling wheel.
You understand?

VOt is basically handing a silver spoon to any retard narcissist. Even though it doesn't intend to, this is what it amounts to logically anyways.
A scaffold in an architecture is a guiding model (and not a ground) which one removes after the construction of a building.. one does not take it as a ground in real. One clings to the railings of a staircase only to the extent, one learns and Must learn to do without it. Self-clinging is not self-affirmation. A self-circular loop like VOt is not a self-rolling wheel, if you ever understood Zarathustra's teachings at all.


4. As I have already said here, diversity is a result of agon, of tension, of the instinct for the pathos of distance that self-differentiates itself more and more discriminately… diversity occurs as a result and as an external reflection of the internal tension.
The goal of evolutionary philosophy therefore is not in affirming the diversity per se, but affirming the origin-ary Agon [agon that gives birth to origins, new nodes of tensions] and the Agon-y of existence in all its variegated differences.
The conserving tendency of religion is at Square with the differential tendency of philosophy,,, where once in a while the accumulated pressure generated by this square, *because* there was a square, is so tremendous, you have the excess of a Caesar transcending that square into a full conjunction in his very personhood. A new Type of be-ing. To take away that square by equating or forming sextiles and such between religion and philosophy, it deselects diversities.


5. The "I Am" denotes a never-ending being-in-becoming, and a consciousness of power attained to maintain a semblance of unity. "I Am" is not a unity.
To simply take this as a "positive" starting point eliminates the nuance of whether that 'unity' is one from the exhaustion of simply maintaining that semblance, or it is from the 'exhaustion' of overcoming and self-destruction of old forms towards increasing incorporation of that semblance into active instincts.
VOt makes the pathos of such aesthetic differentials between strong and weak, master and herd, simple and simpleton, blonds and retards impossible, when it conveniently and comfortably takes All be-ing as positive in itself. No, not all order is a positive ordering from the pov. of ideals.
To preach so, is Kabala by another means,, not philosophy.


6. Objectivity as subjective-intensification is a Degree of the strength of the senses that can discriminate judgements, call everything for what it is Beyond the effects of pain/pleasure such judgements would bring upon it. It is an index of one's sensual or empirical integrity without denying [Schop.] or deifying [Spinoza] the body.
'How much truth can you endure?' is a question of one's spirit(ual)/ed WTP, where the body is not some gross impediment, but a sharp instrument of pure acute awareness.
This is the opposite of any pan-psychism or Plotinian prehensive intelligent-design, etc. where, it is not subject-dependency as mentioned, but a Subject-ionism  - subject taken as its own weight of self-evident truth, instead of questioning, 'how much truth?' to make emerge a subject…
Subjective onus in the inorganic world or Subjectionism is the closure of philosophy, not its disclosure.
Persistence in the inorganic world only proves necessity, not order. Only active forces - verb, not intelligent agency - noun. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].


7. Perspectivism is an employment of various vantages to acknowledge one's Limitations of knowledge.
It is not a deployment of a ploy to escape one's own station in life - which is totally self-defeating in the affirmation of an affirmative philosophy. VOt being defined as the "absolutization of relativism" and leaving victory, power, success as one who persists the most or endures the most - i.e., if Density alone decides objective superiority, then any mass hive-mind, any plastic, any bacteria able to persist the longest would be more valuable life-form than the human… which is fine, but then VOt cannot claim to be arche of the human, only of dense humanity. It becomes a Hedonistic Metaphysics: Peformance Ontology - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], not a VO.


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:07 am

Red Dragon, like a modern-day Ikarus, inverted and intoxicated by his first contact with power through misery, his first sensation of being in the moonlight (reflected sunlight) - indifference of soaring above the dark earth towards the moon - and dreams of transforming into something ferocious, something awe-inspiring.
Sunlight touches him, soft and hazy, via the moon's mediation. He mistakes his tolerance of it, for his strength, his endurance.
Everything looks black in the moonlight - reality is turned dark to the eye.  


He becomes arrogant, invigorated by transition, from man to something monstrous.

In darkness everything is transformed, and the mind undisturbed by the real, can turn inward.
His inner sun beaming, converting it all to his taste.

Rejection of blood as black, as negative.
Reality gloomy, incomprehensible, the Red Dragon sees with an inner eye, an inner sun; world belonging only inside of him, and he seduces the blind with it - draws to him those who having experienced sunlight could not endure its unforgiving heat.
In there he is wondrous, and strong. He can fly, with no sun to melt his wax-wings - calm and cool, in the night air, unseen when he cries.
He can impose his dream-world...perfectly ordered, undisturbed by the external.

When the Messiah came he spoke of "truth" and "light" meaning the one inside of him, transported to the internal in all his followers, contradicting the external light, world, order, with negation.
Dark became light, internal subjective light, and the sun reborn as black.  

People's forms are also transformed in the moonlight - shadows changing the shapes of things.
The small looks menacing, the menacing small.
The human becomes monster, and the monster human.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:02 pm

Usage of negro gangsta talk, to unite young infantile boys, with a sense of power - power of the dog pound, the pack, which is no more than a herd.
Creates an us-them division, and declares what it cannot show. Philosophy is not even the focus - constructing a bonding identifier, for the lost, is what it is.
A cult wanting to be a religion.
Attracting feeble men-children with this verbal show of force, will make all the vagueness, and regurgitation, vanish. The needy mind will not be overly concerned with details when the feeling gives him a high.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:14 am

Before Fixed, a rationalist VOt was put forward by Sartre in his 'Being and Nothingness', where he presents the exact similar loop of positing Being first. The book even contains a chapter on Being and value. If you compare Sartre's distinction between "being-in-itself and being-for-itself", with "self is valuing and valuing is be-ing", you see Fixed just inverts the hierarchy of Satre's rationalist value-follows-consciousness to the other way:

Quote :
"Values cannot be causes of our action, we are the causes of our values. They cannot be causes because of, Sartre argues: ‘…the sole fact that I am conscious of the causes which inspire my action, these causes are already transcendent objects for my consciousness; they are outside. In vain shall I seek to catch hold of them; I escape them by my very existence. I am condemned to exist forever beyond my essence, beyond the causes and motives of my act. I am condemned to be free. This means that no limits to my freedom can be found except freedom itself or, it you prefer, that we are not free to cease being free."

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Sartre also has a chapter in BN titled, 'The Self and the Circuit of Selfness', presenting a rationalist take on ego and the consciousness. But the ontotheological loop between them remains the same. Some key passages:

Sartre wrote:
"Now we can ascertain more exactly what is the being of the self: it is value." [Being and Nothingness]


How Sartre pre-posits and presumes Being to create his value-loop:

Sartre wrote:
"Of all internal negations, the one which penetrates most deeply into being, the one which constitutes in its being the being concerning which it makes the denial along with the being which it denies-this negation is lack.

This lack does not belong to the nature of the in-itself, which is all positivity. It appears in the world only with the upsurge of human reality. It is only in the human world that there can be lacks. A lack pre­ supposes a trinity:· that which is missing or "the lacking," that which misses what is lacking or "the existing," and a totality which has been broken by the lacking and which would be restored by the synthesis of "the lacking" and "the existing"-this is "the lacked." The being which is released to the intuition of human reality is always that to which some thing is lacking-i.e., the existing.

For example, if I say that the moon is not full and that one quarter is lacking, I base this judgment on full intu­ition of the crescent moon. Thus what is released to intuition is an in-itself which by itself is neither complete nor incomplete but which simply is what it is, without relation with other beings. In order for this in-itself to be grasped as the crescent moon, it is necessary that a human reality surpass the given toward the project of the realized totality-here the disk of the full moon-and return toward the given to constitute it as the crescent moon; that is, .in order to realize it in its being in terms of the totality which becomes its foundation. In this same surpassing the lacking will be posited as that whose synthetic addition to the existing will re­ constitute the synthetic totality of the lacked. In this sense the lacking is of the same nature as the existing; it would suffice to reverse the situa­tion in order for it to become the existing to which the lacking is missing, while the existing would become the lacking. This lacking as the comple­ment of the existing is determined in its being by the synthetic totality of the lacked.

Thus in the human world, the incomplete being which is released to intuition as lacking is constituted in its being by the lacked-, that is, by what it is not. It is the full moon which confers on the cres­cent moon its being as crescent; what-is-not determines what-is. It is in the being of the existing, as the correlate of a human transcendence, to lead outside itself to the being which it is not-as to its meaning." [BN]


Sartre wrote:
"Value is affected with the double character, which moralists have very inadequately explained, of both being unconditionally and not being.  

Human reality is that by which value arrives in the world. But the meaning of being'for value is that it is that toward which a being surpasses its being; every value­ oriented act is a wrenching away from its own being toward - . Since value is always and everywhere the beyond of allsurpassings, it can be considered as the unconditioned unity of all surpassings of being. There­ by it makes a dyad with the reality which originally surpasses its being and by which surpassing comes into being-i.e., with human reality. We see also that since value is the unconditioned beyond of all surpassings, it must be originally the beyond of the very being which surpasses, for that is the only way in which value can be the original beyond of all possible surpassings.

If every surpassing must be able to be surpassed, it is necessary that the being which surpasses should be a priori surpassed in so far as it is the very source of surpassings. Thus value taken in its origin, or the supreme value, is the beyond and the for of transcendence. It is the be­ yond which surpasses and which provides the foundation for all my sur­ passings but toward which I can never surpass myself, precisely because my surpassings presuppose it.

In all cases of lack value is "the lacked;" it is not "the lacking." Value is the self in so far as the self haunts the heart of the for-itself as that for which the for-itself is. The supreme value toward which consciousness at every instant surpasses itself by its very being is the absolute being of the self with its characteristics of identity, of purity, of permanence, etc., and as its own foundation. This is what enables us to conceive why value can simultaneously be and not be. It is as the meaning and the beyond of all surpassing; it is as the absent in-itself which haunts being-for-itself. But as soon as we consider value, we see that it is itself a surpassing of this being-in-itself, since value gives being to itself. It is beyond its own being since with the type of being of coincidence with self, it immediately sur­passes this being, its permanence, its purity, its consistency, its identity, its silence, by reclaiming these qualities by virtue of presence to itself.

And conversely if we start by considering it as presence to itself, this pres­ence immediately is solidified, fixed in the in-itself. Moreover it is in its being the missing totality toward which a being makes itself be. It arises for a being, not as this being is what it is in full contingency, but as it is the foundation of its own nihilation. In this sense value haunts being as being founds itself but not as being is.Value haunts freedom. This means that the relation of value to the for-itself is very particular: it is the being which has to be in so far as it is the foundation of its nothingness of being." [BN]


Sartre wrote:
"Value in its original upsurge is not posited by the for-itself; it is con­substantial with it-to such a degree that there is no consciousness which is not haunted by its value and that human-reality in the broad sense in­ cludes both the for-itself and value.

Human reality as for-itself is a lack and that what it lacks is a certain coincidence with itself. Concretely, each particular for­ itself (Erlebnis) lacks a certain particular and concrete reality, which if the for-itself were synthetically assimilated with it, would transform the for-itself into itself. It lacks something for something else-as the broken disc of the moon lacks that which would be necessary to complete it and transform it into a full moon. Thus the lacking arises in the process of transcendence and is determined by a return toward the existing in terms of the lacked. The lacking thus defined is transcendent and complementary in relation to the existing. They are then of the same nature.

What the crescent moon lacks in order to be a full moon is precisely a fragment of moon; what the obtuse angle ABC lacks in order to make two right angles is the acute angle CBD. What the for-itself lacks in order to be made a whole with itself is the for-itself.

The possible rises on the ground of the nihila­ tion of the for-itself. It is not conceived thematically afterwards as a means of reuniting the self. Rather the upsurge of the for·itself as the nihilation of the in-itself and the decompression of being causes possi­bility to arise as one of the aspects of this decompression of being; that is, as a way of being what one is-at a distance from the self. Thus the for-it­ self can not appear without being haunted by value and projected toward its own possibles. Yet as soon as it refers us to its possibles, the cogito drives us outside the instant toward that which it is in the mode of not being it.

We can consider,as Spinoza did,that possibilities exist only in connection with our ignorance and that they disappear when our ignorance disappears. In this case the possible is only a subjective stage on the road to perfect knowl­edge; it has only the reality of a psychic mode; as confused or curtailed thought it has a concrete being but not as a property of the world. But it is also permissible, as Leibniz does, to make of the infinity of possibles ob­jects of thought for the divine understanding and so confer on them a mode of absolute reality; this position reserves for the divine will the power to realize the best system among them.

But is this conception so different from that of Spinoza? Actually the reality of the possible is uniquely that of the divine thought! This means that it has being as thought which has not been realized. Of course the idea of subjectivity has been here pushed to its limit, for we are dealing with a divine consciousness, not mine; and if we have at the outset made a point of confusing subjectivity and finitude, subjectivity disappears when the understanding becomes infinite.

Leibniz himself seems to have wished to confer an autonomy and a sort of peculiar weight on possibilities, for several of the metaphysical fragments published by Couturat show us possibles organizing themselves into systems of co-possibles in which the fullest and richest tend by themselves to be realized. But there is here only a suggestion of such a doctrine, and Leibniz has not developed it­ doubtless because he could not do so.

The possible can not be reduced to a subjective reality. Neither is it prior to the real or to the true. It is a con­ crete property of already existing realities. In order for the rain to be possi­ ble, there must be clouds in the sky. To suppress being in order to estab­ lish the possible in its purity is an absurd attempt. The frequently cited passage from not-being to being via possibility does not correspond to the real. To be sure, the possible state does not exist yet; but it is the possible state of a certain existent which sustains by its being the possibility and the non-being of its future state. Being-in-itself can not "be potentiality" or "have potentialities." In itself it is what it is-in the absolute plenitude of its identity. The cloud is not "potential rain;" it is, in itself, a certain quantity of water vapor, which at a given temperature and under a given pressure is strictly what it is. The in-itself is actuality.

But we can con­ceive clearly enough how the scientific attitude in its attempt to de­ humanize the world has encountered possibilities as potentialities and has got rid of them by making of them the pure subjective results of our logical calculation and of our ignorance. The first scientific step is correct; the possible comes into the world through human reality. These clouds can change into rain only if I surpass them towards the rain, just as the crescent moon lacks a portion of the disc only if I surpass the crescent towards the full moon. But was it necessary afterwards to make of the possible a simple given of our psychic subjectivity? Just as there can be lack in the world only if it comes to the world through a being which is its own lack, so there can be possibility in the world only if it comes through a being which is for itself in its own possibility.

We are now in a position to elucidate the mode of being of the possible. The possible is the something which the For-itself lacks in order to be itself.

The possible does not exist as a pure representation, not even as a denied one, but as a real lack of being which, qua lack, is beyond being. It has the being of a lack and as lack, it lacks being. The Possible is not, the possible is possibilized to the exact degree that the For-itself makes itself be; the possible determines in schematic outline a location in the nothingness which the For-itself is beyond itself. Naturally it is not at first thematically posited; it is outlined beyond the world and gives my present perception its meaning as this is apprehended in the world in the circuit of selfness. But neither is the Possible ignored or unconscious; it outlines the limits of the non-thetic self-conscious­ness as a non-thetic consciousness. The non-reflective consciousness (of) thirst is apprehended by means of the glass of water as desirable, without putting the Self in the centripetal position as the end of the desire. But the possible repletion appears as a non-positional correlate of the non-thetic self-consciousness on the horizon of the glass-in-the-midst-of-the-world." [BN]


Similar to the Xt. humanist project of the VOt., having taken the absolute/whole/Being/pan for granted to then define the self as lack and a project of self-creation [essence follows existence], it is only inevitable logic, that Satre's marxism sees man's freedom as a lack with respect to the humanity as the Whole which it presupposes:


Sartre wrote:
"My suffering suffers from being what it is not and from not being what it is. At the point of being made one with itself, it escapes, separated from itself by nothing, by that nothingness of which it is itself the foundation. It is loquacious because it is not adequate, but its ideal is silence, the silence of the statue, of the beaten man who lowers his head and veils his face without speaking. But with this man too-it is for me that he does not speak. In himself he chatters incessantly, for the words of the inner lan­ guage are like the outlines of the "self" of suffering. It is for my eyes that he is "crushed" by suffering; in himself he feels himself responsible for that grief which he wills even while not wishing it and which he does not wish even while willing it, that grief which is haunted by a perpetual absence-the absence of the motionless, mute suffering which is the self, the concrete, out-of reach totality of the for-itself which suffers, the for of Human-Reality in suffering. We can see that my suffering never posits this suffering-in-itself which visits it. My real suffering is not an effort to reach to the self. But it can be suffering only as consciousness (of) not being enough suffering in the presence of that full and absent suffering." [BN]

VOt just inverts the rationalism off and closes the cartesian duality in Sartre, between being-in-itself and being-for-itself.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:44 pm

When you find the common theme that runs across Nihilistic narratives, you can pick them out, no matter what words they use to replace older ones, and what order they place them in.

The common [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] connecting Judaism with Christianity and Islam, then running through Marxism and into Modernity, humanism Transhumanism, and whatever repackaging emerges, is clear.
I've [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it as more than a political, and philosophical movement, but, as gene leads to meme, it is an organic expression of an inherited disposition towards existence, and nature.
A disposition of dissatisfaction with reality, wanting to overturn, correct, heal, invert, not directly but by using mind-games and words. A compensating disposition using hyperbole to impress the weak, acquiring in quantity what it lacks as quality.

An effete soul needs a masculine spirit to legitimize it.
These have chosen the most fashionable one, Nietzsche, to lend pagan vigour to their sickly mind's testament.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:35 am

pezer wrote:
If THAT is your critique, then know it has no contradiction with self valuing or valuing logic.

If hair-line nuances catapulting into massive distinctions at a higher plane dont mean anything to you,, that's your taste. Like that 1% diff. between chimpanzees and humans.

If you do not see any problem with the concept of the cowardly conatus, and how sultry and evolutionarily stunting it is, who can help you? If you do not see any problem with promoting stirnerite individuality, and hedonistic relativism as an ends in itself, what is left to say? If you do not see the solipsistic artificiality and reality-sheltering word-games at the bottom to combat fear of reality that is at the heart of VOt, what need is there for any argument?

Quote :
Where I see the actual conflict here, (agon? lol, don't be offended, I like to try things out)

Why dont you tell me what you found reductive about VO at first?

Quote :
is in the fact that we claim more than one center values, and only each value can know its own self valuing, so we are actually much further from a central God than you.

You dont need a central God when you say instead god is everywhere, and everything is divine and valuable in itself. It amounts to the same thing. You are very naive.
Fixed has said VOt is silent or covert-christianity, instead of overt-Xt.
Just because you don't pronounce the K in Knife, doesn't mean the K doesn't exist.
You dont need a transcendent god, when god can be immanentized as your very immunity.
If be-ing is already a value, then what need is there for any striving, when simply existing is enough to assume one is already god?
Auto-legitimazing "be-ing is a value" at an ontological level cannot be a philosophy, but a soothsaying religion that every retard can take comfort in. Pan-psychism is a narcissist's wet dream.

Quote :
Anyway, I did enjoy your analysis a lot. I don't mean this as a bullying tactic of getting you to humble yourself but, on the contrary, a discriminating tactic to let you know what I value most of you that you know I would you be MORE arrogant. It is then entirely up to your discrimination. I am judging carefully.

I cannot point to at any one place and say, here, see my arrogance; I am arrogance all over. I hope you understand.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:42 am



According to FC, Kanye West is a hero and example of nobility and new aristocracy.

Great, except for the fact, in a sheltered environment, and consumer capitalism set to manufacturing needs is already put into effect, a performer appealing to the LCDs set into place in a dysgenic environment, can rise to star status - "sheer power", speaking of "sheer power" of his "overcoming".
No matter that little inconvenience that he is a puppet of higher instruments.

And N. said, even women suffer; the endurance for suffering means nothing heroic.
All peoples just being Allowed to make a glamour of their decadence can now be redefined as self-overcoming. 
And didn't Xt. begin exactly like this? Making apologies and excuses for excuses in the name of tolerance?

Excellent.

Satyr wrote:
"If we compare the American Negro with the African we witness natural selection at work, with the intervening aspect of human will.
The strongest and fittest were selected by traders from enslavers who were Negroes themselves, and those mixed with Europeans. Their music reflects this mixture of African musical forms and European ones, as does their appearance, which is distinctly different to the present Africans in any part of Africa.
I've said this a hundred times and I will repeat it once more, race is about potential.
Genes pass-on to offspring, from parent, the potential of every trait, and this potential will be cultivated by the environment. This is the nature/nurture relationship.
Environment may cultivate or allow to atrophy inherited potentials, so when two populations with diverse genetic backgrounds coexist within the same human environment, socioeconomic political memetic environment with rules, morals traditions, techniques, an superficial parity is achieved as lower potentials are raised, by training supporting them with techniques/technologies, and higher potentials limited, stifled, with behavioural limits in conduct, in thinking, with morals, with social methods, with money etc.
This creates false parity where inherited potentials cease to matter as they would in natural environments where the slightest divergence downward/upward would decide between life and death, between survival and extinction.

Suffering is indeed necessary to cultivate potentials, and comfort atrophies them.
But this does not bridge the distance between inherited genetic limits in one, or two generations. Evolution works slowly, gradually.
Given enough time and mixing, then true parity will be real, but this is not positive from a genetic standpoint because this means that the higher and the lower mixture will settle on a median, the average between them inherited potential.
They've called this Dysgenics."


-

Keeping in mind, what Pezer said about putting people to their best use, lets assume the "impulse" for cRap and hip-hop music is the 'best' the black people can demonstrate in comparison to their thuggery and other degenerate violence which is their norm. But as pointed out many times before, just became a virus is potent and can eradicate a whole population in an epidemic, doesn't make it more "aristocratic" to a Caesar or a Napoleon.
If everything is valued from its own value-centre, what remains of any value at all?
If the banner of aristocracy has no objective standards to meet, one makes a whoredom of the word and the ideal, such that it becomes empty of all meaning.

The levelling down of all that is the highest standard to an entropic equilibrium is not domination from the point of view of the elevation of whole mankind, even though they raise themselves to dignity from their localized perspective.
Turning songs bleating of victimhood and appeals for Respekt through catchy tunes that touch the lowest common pulse of all humans is not self-reverence, which is an aspiration to touch the highest pulse a human may aspire to.
Saying that does not mean I deny the basic dignity a people carve for themselves as if the past were a prison they are condemned, but I determine what is nobility in the midst of adverse situations where all peoples show their true faces and their inheritance, and not times of comfort.
Like when the mask dropped during the Baltimore riots.

Individuals of whatever creed through their personal examples can set standards to inspire and raise the rest behind them, but the value of such actions are ultimately to be evaluated from evolutionary goals, that are spiritually elevating, exalting, and enriching.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:18 am



No Pezer. Its not about putting people to good use and expanding tolerance, but maintaining natural norms of health and sickness, life and death, good and bad, - affirmative conditions of discriminate distance from which people self-select to find their own use, or they die.

"Dont sell yourself short" is not an aristocratic philosophy, but a soothsaying.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:00 pm

It's funny, I have the same problem with Fixed as I seem to do with you. That is, you say things I agree with, quoting what you disagree with as something I see as all-too-obviously agreeing. Perhaps you assume I agree that rap is the best black people can do, or that I even consider black people to be a useful standard of discrimination.

That video, for example, was not meant to be seen by many. Fixed saw no threat in it. Neither do you.

Let's try another route. If I read you right, you are calling for a standard of health (which I have written extensively about). But this standard you call far seems to be an EQUAL STANDARD FOR ALL. Let all men be measured by the same stick, you seem to be saying.

How very unaristocratic!

Perhaps not "don't sell yourself short," but "don't overextend yourself!"

I guess it's my upbeat attittude that helps people confuse me for some kind of life coach.

In any case, Fixed Cross understands one thing, and that is the only one that matters beyond all this pettyness you hurl at him (not withstanding the depth you both also often exchange): value is a word, and the very word that defines what it is that precedes words. It also defines what it is that precedes knowledge and wisdom. So, while you all seem dead set on attacking a full thesis that doesn't even exist anywhere, you miss the point: Fixed Cross, like all great philosophers, never invented any theory but rather discovered a discriminating factor. Perhaps your single health discrimination? You are looking for a book when he is simply showing you a word. You seem to understand that word is not holy, that reference is not holy, perhaps you would share your thoughts on our video at the tree where we discuss runes, but I hear a lot of supersticion about a word as aristocratic as value is. Raw? Yes. But people forget: aristocrats like it raw: refinements are only games and masquarades so that the lower types can be kept in check.

Great to hear from you! Glad to know you are giving the videos some thought, do consider re-evaluating your approach, though any approach of yours will be gladly recieved.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:24 am

pezer wrote:
Perhaps you assume I agree that rap is the best black people can do, or that I even consider black people to be a useful standard of discrimination.

Are you now denying your own logic you expressed in your own video?

Where is your criticism of Fixed's videos on 'Black Supremacism' and 'phil. part 1'?
Didn't you hail Fixed as an alpha philosopher in the Words video, and he swallowed the praise like it was something long overdue him… over what really? For teaching a more subtler Xt.
How embarassing…
Where was your critical mind, or is this how you value? Turning a blind-eye to the negatives and simply building along with the positive only? At that rate, for the sake of realizing further possibilities, one can totally extinguish all and any agon. Its what I've called a value-vacuum before. Efficient Performativity on LCDs is not valuing, but a vacuum, a dense vacuum lacking any intensity.

Why dont you make it clear here, what your position on Blacks is anyway, and how are they to be "put to use"?
I wonder what you have to say on Rap music and its symbiotic origins to drug culture, or the decline of language and vocabulary - the very tools one thinks with?! FC raps on and on about attending this and that "greek gymnasium"… where would his edumucation be if "cool factor" of Black Supremacism penetrated the very tools he communicates with?
Some things to think about, no?

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Maybe next there'll be a video on how twerking your asses could be Valued as the most Supreme Accomplishment and Apotheosis of Black peoples because it rules America now…
If music, why not dance? And if dance, why not booty dance?
Whatever holds sway, any idiocy in power, just because it is in power, means such are the "Master-values".

If a word like "master" loses all reference to any ideal or reality-standard, one prostitutes it empty, of all meaning, in such relativism.
And you are party to such a view? Open your eyes on them, before you tell us or yourself what is, or is not aristocratic, or if norms mean anything to you...


pezer wrote:
Let's try another route. If I read you right, you are calling for a standard of health (which I have written extensively about).

Where is that? And no, you have read me wrong.

pezer wrote:
But this standard you call far seems to be an EQUAL STANDARD FOR ALL. Let all men be measured by the same stick, you seem to be saying.

How very unaristocratic!

Satyr and I have explained this distinction here before. There is a reality that is common to all, a cosmo-politanism of which Heraclitus said:

"Not comprehending, they hear like the deaf. The saying bears wit- ness to them: absent while present.
Although the account (logos) is shared, most men live as though their thinking (phronesis) were a private possession." [Kahn, Fragments of Heraclitus; Diels, 34]

Which is different from the modern stirnerite rootless atomic individuality and its cosmopolitan-ism, which is an anarchy.

Beyond human concerns, is an indifferent reality, which is Common to all. This is not a "man-made", "equal for all" standard. I am even saying the opposite. That because, there is a common indifferent nature, that spells life or death, Nature separates men who are compelled to value beyond mere survival, establishing max. norms or the highest ideals of a society. The quality of the ideals is relative to the degree of reality and fine-tuning it can incorporate into its vision and the bar it sets. This is covered in depth [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Exceptions thrive on the rule, and without norms to define what is health and what is sickness - (the very function of Philosophy to make evaluations) - you are promoting cultural relativism and anarchy.

Do not confuse man-made order where standard-bearing or self-surpassing means a sharper, diverse grasp of reality born of agon [and not agon born of diversity for its own sake], and the order of reality that man is forced to "adapt or perish".
Do not confuse the meaning of valuing in artificial and natural environments.

In reality, man is forced to value himself or he dies.
If anything, it is VO that "preaches" "all" to self-value that extinguishes the pathos of distance. And rightfully so, because it is a religion at its core, not a philosophy.
True diversity is born of Nature compelling men to be their best or die,,, preaching to all to self-value is a continuation of decadent Xt. that tried to "preserve" all the sickly and the decadent - doesnt't matter if you simply tell yourself and others you are doing so in the name of "diversity". It is a false one.

pezer wrote:
Perhaps not "don't sell yourself short," but "don't overextend yourself!"

Coherence is conatus by any other name. And conatus is one sickly, hedonistic religious outlook.

pezer wrote:
In any case, Fixed Cross understands one thing, and that is the only one that matters beyond all this pettyness you hurl at him

What "pettiness" do you find offensive?

pezer wrote:
value is a word, and the very word that defines what it is that precedes words. It also defines what it is that precedes knowledge and wisdom. So, while you all seem dead set on attacking a full thesis that doesn't even exist anywhere, you miss the point: Fixed Cross, like all great philosophers, never invented any theory but rather discovered a discriminating factor. Perhaps your single health discrimination?

Fixed merely inverted the rationalist Sartre who coined "being is value" and by adding flesh to a ready-made kabala and plotinism, and a subjective layer to N.'s neutral WTP.

Tell me, what good is saying you are no Xt., when you adopt to your own "feel good convenience" be-ing is already a Value to an Indifferent reality?! Do you understand yet??
Any retard breathing would consider himself already a Victor, simply for existing! DO YOU GET IT?!!
These Value-Ontotheists have already accepted and even celebrate their self-circularity; see the red bolded [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What does it make you, when you Uncritically praise these "god by any other means" theologians, and yet also claim to be against Xt.?  How blind are you?
How "aristocratic" is it to believe in Intelligent Design like a good slave of faith and all those pan-psychic nihilists simply finding ways to justify Kabala and Plotinus? In other words, "the" truth is already presumed and man simply has to attain that truth and divine status which the world "already is"…    what could be more hedonistic and need of sooth-saying comfort and un-cleanly than such a dishonest approach parading itself as "philosophy"?!

One more point. "If you cannot beat it, join it" is the mantra of zombies, not of Masters.
If capitalism is fueled by needs, re-setting its Need for needs to higher-needs is still operating within the same "dialectic".  
I do not deny there is a natural aspect to the capitalistic instinct, but selling honour as a commodity is not going to raise the value of life. In religious terms, one would say, you are still stuck in the same self-rolling wheel of samsara, not the wheel of the child. "What is good?" ought to be a contest over the highest affirmable reality and agon; "preaching" what the highest good as the common good ought to be is You defining an Equal-for-all standard, and that makes your "catholicism", your "fetish", worse than today's "crony capitalism".



EDIT:

1. Instead of making the environment more natural, making man more artificial by gearing him up with a "value-armour" to keep himself from breaking apart is precisely the role of a religion, not a philosophy.

2. Lets assume, pushing crony capitalism to its end-logic, getting men to fight over freedom and honour instead of cheese-cake is like a sand-clock that tilts over, shifting the momentum of time and values back to a higher order, is no revolution, since there are no closed ends of a sand-clock in "Natural" reality that can be "inverted", and see-sawing back and forth is not re-Turning again and again, but a Dialectical repetition that empties out all distinctions - baudrillard's simulacra, in the absence of an Axis, a norm, an intensity of verticality, a reality one can a-Spire to, that is the meaning of an (r)evolution, a leap. The see-sawing simply reverts us back to point 1.

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3. Paul used the miracles of jesus to concoct a religion.
And Fixed here points to his miraculous healing under the rapture of a black pastor to praise the black baptist church and its "black" magic [pun intended].
While you continue to praise Fixed as the greatest 'philosopher'.
How ridiculuous is this whole charade of a value "ontology"!
Maybe the next guy who personally feels healed under drugs or love or sex or music will praise his drug-lord or lover or whore or DJ, and from there, the supremacism of pimps, addicts, prostitutes, night-clubs and other hedonists can be said to the highest exemplars of self-valuing.
Whatever.

I hope you find the resolve to start from scratch and rethink through everything in this new year.
Have a good one.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:21 pm

Aye, you too.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:52 pm

FC wrote:
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Witch, yo_Ur formu_La is interest_Ing.

On a closer look, you should be able to literally read Bull_Shite there.

FC wrote:
Im so sorry I have to keep looking down on your blubby hubbie,

You mean, when your logic can't keep its pant(ie)s on, everytime I pop its cherry, this is how you crawl before me? Like… just because you are an emo chic who simply can't argue back in ideas, you insinuate, worm, my criticism of your Xt. stems from my wanting you to like/dislike Satyr? Lame And incapable…  Coward, there's a big hole in your wee_O, and making me out to be someone who discredits you from an emotional motive just because I'm a woman is so unter-manly. But you already know that, no.

Btw., I think you would make a girl a good f---, but Satyr can be a sweet lover.

FC wrote:
its on you that you take that personally.

But as always, this is about you, dearest. Does it hurt a lot? Thinking of me and Satyr making out… do you crave his acknowledgement, dear girl? J-lys-sea can be an intricate emotion. Esp. after one is castrated and becomes an effete bride to Christ… The sex organs then become an unshakeable obsession, esp. for a Performance and a Spectacular Artist.
You tend slowly only to see cocks and pussies everywhere. Sex ravages your brain like a plague.

FC wrote:
In my opinion you should never have left the Commander, even though he offered you no attentions and certainly gave you no bed.

Your (e)X/file doesn't concern me, and what commander or commandment you gave yourself to,,… but if you insist, you smell like Nux from Mad Max 4… an enthusiastic little girl dying to please her master, drenching her in his shiny orgiastic promise, only to be rebuffed and rejected as mediocre…



George Miller's masterly parody of Nordicism in the hands of idiots who take things too Literally…

Maybe when N. said, "live dangerously", he meant, live on the streets and ghettoes, contract AIDS and show the world how to live full of danger…

Maybe when N. said, "I only believe in a god that can dance", he meant gods of cRap - "artist-tyrants" mercilessly grunting all to shake their booty.

Maybe the meaning of Bilskirnir or "bright crack" means the "urban shamanism" of the head-splitting blunder-storms of "crack-hos".

I wonder what's next.

Speaking of witch,

It takes stamina and heart to have that inertia to get close to the O_Nyx odyssey without hurling and hurting yourself at its sucking gravity. Thunder in the Night.

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Quote :
Durer's Knight between Death, and the Devil.

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Quote :
"The dagger is a weapon of mastery. And it is very personal.

One of my favorite movies is Léon (The Professional). In it, Léon, played by Jean Reno, teaches Portman’s Mathilda, 13 years old at the time, how to be a contract killer. Among many bits of life and killing advice, he tells her that the last weapon she’ll use is a knife. She’ll start with a long range rifle and work her way to the knife.



He says, “The rifle is the first weapon you learn how to use, because it lets you keep your distance from the client. The closer you get to being a pro, the closer you can get to the client. The knife, for example, is the last thing you learn.”

The knife, though small, is just as lethal as the rifle. The skills to get close to a “client”. It takes complete mastery. Breathing techniques. Close combat techniques. Strategy. Strength. And it’s personal. Very personal.

Easily concealed. Lethal. And just as easily turned back against us if we do not possess, practice and master the skill necessary to use it properly."

Some are mysterious and indulge in sitting close to the undifferentiated source, because they lack clarity and wish to muffle and hide themselves in obfuscations, and some are mysterious and sit close to the source, for the different and distinct veins one is able to churn out from it…
Just like there are those who hide their swords in their sheaths because they dont trust themselves with their own animal instincts and they cling to themselves, and then those who never lose trust in their unhesitancy.

VOt is an Apollonianism born of hedonistic fear of pain and cowardice.
Cellular contraction and increase of density occurs to minimize the sensation of pain.
That's the simple logic of the sickly conatus engine of VOt-armouring.

No Knight of the Night is he, who fears the intelligent vo/ulva,, the heart of her F_Ur_Yr.

meow wrote:
But then, a woman will be a woman.

Only because you would know all about it, v-j-j.

meow wrote:
Any luck getting Perthro between the sheets yet?

Are you hoping to win the lot-tery?

Your pre-occupation with who I ought to sleep with, and who I should f--- and not f---, and who owns me and who doesn't, just as Satyr and Sauwie and Neon and li'l Erik, puts all of you under the same bedsheet as far as I'm concerned… get it?
Go back to the arcade and play with the joystick and show me how happy you are to hear that…

FC wrote:
Given the unbelievable morons you have to make do with, it was more than obvious you would hungrily bite.

So horny and projecting…

I'm very picky, but not fussy, sourkrauts. Its you, not I, who needs life to be "happening" and "nourishing".

Just because its part of your ethics to hang out and keep company with those who offer you advantages or you think you can extract from, doesn't mean others think like you.

With a dishonest spin like VOt, I can empathize with your frustration to find someone who gets your genius… its dullards everywhere… I get it.
Become clean. Start again.
Sex with me may heal and validate your worth temporarily, but the change has to cum from within you.
You've to grow some yourself… get it?

emo chic wrote:
Why do you think I sent him to make your acquaintance?

My motive was to take away pezer from you…   you figured me out.
It was not about contesting philosophical ideas, but a test of if I could shake loose pezer's adoration of you… that's what I was after! Never doubt it.
The temptress was testing Pezer's faith in the "Fixed Cross", in the Xt. God.

Imagine how evaluating Philosophy turns into a Narcissist's concern for his image and clinging to his recruits…
Its not about debating truths or perspectives, and severe self-examination, but how tight and Dense one can contract their pussy in the face of reality penetrating it…

Order is uncritically bound tight and reality trying to 'break up' the 'order' is the 'evil' 'entropy'…   the sheer ill-logic of this reality-hating nihilism..

VOt is literally just that… how tight a pussy one can clench and cling and be in the face of shattering reality…
So much fear that hasn't learned how to balance itself yet, in the face of the animal-nature...

The problem, as Sartre too realized it, is that, one person self-valuing is futile and invisible and needs to depend on getting others to self-value, if changes are to be visible, and if a difference is to be made…, but a value-hive can only thrive by postponing differences and turning blind-eyes to distinctions for the sake of a higher gratification that is forever deferred, until all binding is reduced to a LCD.

I cannot experience the fruit of my freedom, till others are free as well, it depends on it,,, and in order that the many are free, a binding LCD must hold the deferred higher gratification… like a good Xt. religion… dubbed the 'capitalist solution'…

If I can postpone buying cheesecake for something higher, cool, but negligible.
If two people can postpone it to save the money for realizing a higher vision, and then 3 people, and then 4, and then 400, what a positive change can be had… the 'capitalist solution' is a socialism of world citizens, a.k.a Xt.

FC is right to be intimidated by me, he sees me everywhere…, but when he feels less threatened, I hope he realizes how unhealthy his narcissism is to his own self and to those who cannot yet understand the dysgenics he's preaching.

FC wrote:
The game is the game.

Let me know when you are ready to leave the arcade and deal in ideas; till then, maybe you should stick to playing the piano, which was beautiful piece btw.

I think I can close now after that sincere compliment I know will please you.
Make your (y)ear count, on everything I've said. Have a good and long lasting one with Pezer and your rest.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:44 pm

In my case, it's not that I don't want to exchange ideas with you, it is that you sorround each idea of yours with some defence which is boring to have to overcome to get to the idea. Calling out the fact of your womanhood is just accounting for this, there is no need to feel shame. Women aren't good at debating ideas, they are more naturally aristocratic and tyrannical than men: an idea is a matter of urgency, and the prospect of one failing is akin to the prospect of a dress falling off.

A better way for women to use ideas is for them to whisper it lovingly in the ears of heroes, as reminders... It is true that, as men will need to go places where open mindedness must be sacrificed for nimbleness, women can never devalue an idea. Or to take the ideas of fine men, and make them beautiful in ways the pressing danger men face doesn't allow them, is another good way.

But listen! Women weave ideas as much as men do. I would thank the Gods if you decided to stop attacking with your ideas as if you were a man, and began expounding them beautifuly; which, in any case, you have not been able to help but do. Women need a safe pĺace to do this, men need a dangerous one. The concern for you here is the shoddy place you have chosen, which demands of you manly attittudes.

Not that we have any openings, and I know you will not take offence at that, but perhaps if you dropped your shoddy manly attacks and expounded witchcraft at the highest levels, you would find yourself a suitable hearth. It doesn't escape me how much you care for our, or at least Fixed Cross' health.

Hail, Lyssa! Disdain from a woman like you is better than no notice. I will return with verb the moment I see you approach a man or an idea nobly (or at least properly witchly).

Btw I remember now why civilized men are so flimsy. This northern metropolis thing is disarming! Hahaha, what joy! I wish they could make an idea of me dancing on their first world.

Anyway, have a good one. I sincerely hope that. Fixed Cross doesn't fuck around when he says a person is worth noticing...
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:58 pm

pezer wrote:
In my case

In your case, you already announced in the Politeia greeting that your aim on the forum circuits is to find people who you can "build with", and not interested in any critical debate.
To your simplistic eye, minute distinctions that spell huge differences all just look agreeable trivials, because the ground of what you are building "feels good" and that faith is sufficient reason for you.

Quote :
it's not that I don't want to exchange ideas with you, it is that you sorround each idea of yours with some defence which is boring to have to overcome to get to the idea.

Your presumption that you have a truth that others do not see yet, is predictable.

Leaving me aside, lets assume I do not even figure in the pic. And still where are your ideas? Videos full of half-finished sentences and self-glorification of how great this is going to be or how revolutionary that is going to be… without ever addressing the pros and cons of FC's core principles… I'm sure no one next to you was boring you,,, so come up with an excuse for that too. Tell me it was sooooo complex, you couldn't put it into words at all,,, or how people aren't ready to understand the great truth yet. Tell me only the ones with faithful eyes can hear and understand it.
Anything else?

Quote :
Calling out the fact of your womanhood is just accounting for this, there is no need to feel shame.

Are you valuing For me, and on my behalf…?

And maybe you didn't read the exchange properly,,, but its FC and those of his misogynistic ilk who would level a woman down because they can't rise up to her. Just because cowards like him want to shame my being a woman as automantically incapable of thinking ideologically, doesn't mean I'm ashamed of being one. Got it?

Go tell your friend, reducing a topic down to who I f--- or dont f---, who my hubby is or isn't, Only Exposes Him for being an Evasive coward. If he wants to run away from a debate, that's fine with me and his choice. I could care less if being an effete gossipy little girl is how he chooses to value himself.

Quote :
Women aren't good at debating ideas, they are more naturally aristocratic and tyrannical than men: an idea is a matter of urgency, and the prospect of one failing is akin to the prospect of a dress falling off.

I don't care for generalities… Fixed took my name, and this is between him and I. Got it?

Anddd, a good idea is one, that no matter how Deviant it is and whichever way it falls, it always ends up the right way.
All roads lead to Rome.

Quote :
A better way for women to use ideas is for them to whisper it lovingly in the ears of heroes, as reminders... It is true that, as men will need to go places where open mindedness must be sacrificed for nimbleness, women can never devalue an idea. Or to take the ideas of fine men, and make them beautiful in ways the pressing danger men face doesn't allow them, is another good way.

But listen! Women weave ideas as much as men do.

I agree in general, but when men have become insecure dwarfs and castrated slaves and hedonistic weaklings, then its a woman's duty to keep the fire burning till a Real hero comes along.

Quote :
I would thank the Gods if you decided to stop attacking with your ideas as if you were a man

To the inferior and cowardly male, I feel manly,,, to the superior, I feel womanly.

That you think I even want to be a man shows me how poor your grasp on matters are. I even dislike the whole Amazon archetype!!

Quote :
and began expounding them beautifuly; which, in any case, you have not been able to help but do. Women need a safe pĺace to do this, men need a dangerous one. The concern for you here is the shoddy place you have chosen, which demands of you manly attittudes.

Still didn't THINK about that little fact I told you about nature and an indifferent reality being Common to all, huh?

Why dont you simply tell me, "Men only care for an intelligiBLE woman, not an intelligENT woman."  I want you to say that to me.

Quote :
Not that we have any openings, and I know you will not take offence at that, but perhaps if you dropped your shoddy manly attacks

I agree I'm too much for you and you need time for recovery.

Granted.

Quote :
and expounded witchcraft at the highest levels, you would find yourself a suitable hearth.

This your idea of putting people to use?

You mean, you would value for me what is proper or improper as You see fit, and then also carry on with the hypocrisy of celebrating "self-valuings" of "independent monads" and "true diversity".

Just take a look at your hypocrisy.

As if the commies never tried that shameless trick before. "We are all brothers in equal",, said the…. Leader!

What a charlatan hypocritical bs. VOt is.

Quote :
I will return with verb the moment I see you approach a man or an idea nobly (or at least properly witchly).

Sweets, Tell your friend I am not one to be pinned down,,, esp. not by Xts. a.k.a faggots. I loathe that Type.

Quote :
Btw I remember now why civilized men are so flimsy. This northern metropolis thing is disarming! Hahaha, what joy! I wish they could make an idea of me dancing on their first world.

Yea? And your idea of Barbarism or a Cultured Man would be…?

Quote :
Anyway, have a good one. I sincerely hope that. Fixed Cross doesn't fuck around when he says a person is worth noticing...

Sure. Maybe next time, use your own judgement.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:01 pm

FC wrote:
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Lyssa  - I saw your ignoble attempts to get Perthro to disangege from philosophy and to 'start anew', without tradition, history and honor to weigh him down and cuddle up under your wings. It was even lower than I expected.

I dont see Pezer saying that to me…, is that how you read it Pezer?

Worm, are you so threatened you have to inject dishonest straw into his brain?! I told Pezer to rethink through the whole logic of your bullshite religion,,, which amounts to my asking him to in fact engage with philosophy, philosophically.

Worm, quote me where I asked pezer to "disengage from philosophy without tradition, history and honor"…

Your lies using this hyperbole of "grand words" that you try to smear on me only fool you and those dishonorable like you. Hopefully, Pezer has his own mind. I'd like him to stand here and tell me to my face, "disengage from philosophy" is what I asked him to do!

FC wrote:
And how sad, considering P had only disgust for your forum and had never heard of you until I urged him to take a look and engage you a bit to take notice of the reason Id set foot in that cesspool. What a perfect ingrate you are.

What makes you think I want to be noticed at all in the manner you suggest? Your motivations for philosophy are not mine.
I promise you, what drives me is an aesthetic beyond your comprehension enframed between pain and pleasure. This alone tells me you have no idea of what wisdom is or hades is or what the phrase low key actually means.

If you think I owe you something, yes, you're welcome to heap and keep the credit. Pls. do so by all means; as you know, I do not care for any of that.

As for this temple being shabby and Pezer's disgust,, philosophy is not in the catering business to the likes/dislikes of others. Nobody stopped Pezer or you conducting your exploration in the style that suited you,, 'Know Thyself' reads: dare to show yourself for what you are and face the consequences.
It is the most "hygiene"-selective environment and no question of like/dislike to those who cannot muster up enough cleanliness for doing philosophy. If someone takes this personally on themselves, their own problem.

FC wrote:
How dull-ly you have interlreted my political videosm There is truly no Nietzsche left in you.

"Dionysos vs. the Crucified"

The bride of Christ cannot be expected to understand the Dionysian, and in her brain, it can only mean the orgiastic nigredo animal…

Nietzsche? Go gargle.

Quote :
Deception is supposed to be subtle. The follow up video to the one you posted alone is enough to see you are either impatient (can not resist stimuli) or a simple honorness liar.

Or there are other agendas beneath your capacity for comprehension; dont lose sleep over it.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:51 pm

Wilson, Erik wrote:
This is the primary difference between the mummy and the animated figures of the Hermeticists, the alchemists, and the Kabbalists: while the mummy is a result of a thwarted love of matter, the living statue issues from an abiding chagrin over material. The myths of the ancient Egyptians are not troubled by a sense of the fall. Though men issue from the tears of Atum and Osiris’s torn limbs produce the yearly grain, the narratives of the Pyramid Texts, the Coffin Texts, and the Book of the Dead do not suggest that the cosmos is a decline from eternal perfection. A precipitation of the High God’s fluids, the world is a manifestation of divine consciousness. The worshipper of Osiris never wants to leave this realm. He wishes to become a machine through which the eternal sensitivity can continue to enjoy eating and walking and talking. In contrast, the mythologies of the Hermeticist, the alchemist, and the Kabbalist are obsessed with declension, the idea that the cosmos solidified only after some colossal mistake, a fall from spirit to matter. In the Poimandres, the anthropos through self-love causes his spiritual form to contract into matter. After this event, he and his progeny are torn between their origin in God and their present prison in nature. In the alchemical texts of the Middle Ages and Renaissance, the great work of the magus is to discover the spirit in matter, to draw spirit out, to return it to its home: the primal man yet unwrecked by desire and fear. The practitioner of the Kabbalah held the same dream, believing that he could recover God’s creative word from among the shards, that he could deploy this sacred name to make a new Adam, unstained and eager.

The golem is more than a figure from antiquated lore. It is a register of one of our most persistent yearnings, now more intense than ever: the desire to transcend mechanism through the machine.

In our digital age, we daily entertain the bewildering possibility of one day downloading our individual consciousness into a computer. Could we but do
this, we think, we would no longer suffer the limitations of matter, the determinism of physical cause and effect. But obviously this potential
transcendence of mechanistic body is troubled, for our liberated consciousness would still be constrained by indifferent circuits, the cold bytes of the hard drive. This is the double bind of the digital age, a bind fully illuminated by the old golem: we want to trade our decaying bodies for eternal machines; we wish to escape mechanistic prisons for undying vitalities.

- The Melancholy Android

Beware of rabbis wearing a shaman's skins.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:16 am

Making of a Rabbi shaman...

Wilson, Erik wrote:
Paracelsus’s homunculus seems to lack the grandeur of the divine statues of the Aesclepius. A twelve-inch man coagulated from semen and needing education appears to be monstrous or comical. But Paracelsus dispels horror or laughter. He calls the homunculus “one of the greatest secrets which God has revealed to mortal and fallible man.” Though the creation of such a creature has long been concealed from humans, it has perennially been known to the “wood-sprites and nymphs and giants”— beings who sprang directly from the divine. Diminutive humans were fashioned by these sacred figures for this reason: when the homunculus grows to manhood it can itself produce armies of bizarre forms, “giants, pygmies, and other marvelous people,” who can gain “great victories over their enemies, and know all secret and hidden matters.

Obviously, these figures of lore faced literal enemies and deployed their arcane magic to vanquish their foes. In this way, the homunculus relates to the golem, a creature sometimes created as a military weapon.
But Paracelsus also has in mind another sort of enemy and another set of secrets. He once claimed that the goal of chemical philosophy is to separate good from evil, pure from impure. The pure and the good are one with the soul while the evil and impure are connected with the body.
Material decay is the enemy of the adept. One goal of alchemy is to overcome this enemy—to divide life from death, to merge with the former, to shed the latter. If the alchemist can achieve this victory, he will become God on earth, Christ rising, anthropos remembered.

However, as Paracelsus persistently argued, the only way to vanquish this enemy,
the only path to the secret of secrets, is through decay. Stale sperm generates the homunculus.

--The Melancholy Android

Gathering armies of humulcus.
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Growing from a small wyrm to a monster, a tiny man dreaming of becoming something menacing, awe inspiring.  

He is Christ, the redeemer, the christened Messiah who will lead the chosen, and save them from their lostness.

Wilson, Erik wrote:
The first step, the nigredo, the black stage, occurs when the alchemist boils the solid substance to a bubbling mass. This primary material is akin to “the dragon that creates and destroys itself,to the “primordial matriarchal world.” The nigredo is also the ouroboros or caduceus of Mercurius, the alchemical symbol of transformation. Mercury is the world soul, both male and female, present at every stage of the alchemical process. His presence in the primal soup as the circular dragon or intertwined snakes suggests that even in chaos or death is the seed of organization and life. Though the nigredo is physical destruction or psychological pain, it is also the water of life, the womb.

When it comes to the making of the homunculus, this stage on a physical level corresponds to the forty-day period during which the human semen is putrefied.
The psychological nigredo is a marker of melancholy, “confusion and lostness.

Often associated with the planet Saturn, this psychic state is far from the sun, a dark night of the soul. This mood is the interior equivalent of the goring of Adonis and Dante’s trek into the wood.
Like these redemptive declines, the melancholia of the nigredo is remedy as much as disease, marker of spiritual genius as much as symbol of material disorientation. While the homunculus without barely exists yet grows in dank slop, the little anthropos within founders in the darkness but still glimpses the light.
In this night arises a moon, the second stage, the albedo, the white, the transition from gloom and dawn. This stage appears when the solution is blanched, no color at all and the ground of all colors, transparent spirit and opaque body. On the one hand, it is the “good white snow”; on the other, it is Luna, heavenly queen. During this stage the swells of the matrix are “congealed”: Mercury as slivering snake is “frozen,” his quicksilver spirit transformed into a stable body. Mercury iced represents the world soul in a purified state. No longer boiling matter (his ouroboric guise), he is matter and spirit at the same time. This new shape is innocence, the virgin waiting for marriage.

The homunculus reaches this stage when the semen coalesces into the semblance of a human, “transparent without a body,” spirit barely emerging from and partially organizing matter.
Like the gloomy psychology of the nigredo, the moony one of the albedo is double. The whitened psyche, deep in dreams, forms a bridge between unconscious and conscious. On the one hand, fantasies pose dangers, for sleeping visions can easily turn one “lunatic.” On the other hand, the blanched mind enjoys glimpses of wisdom unavailable to the conscious ego. These oppositions are synthesized by the primary faculty of the albedo, the imagination, borderland between understanding and intuition, matter and spirit.

From the underworld, Adonis imagines Venus; in the wood, Dante envisions Beatrice. The inner homunculus, like its outer double, treads a tenuous middle path between the despair from which he is rising and the hope on the horizon.

--The Melancholy Android

New Moses descends to the "negrido" level, finding there the slave types his ancestral blood knows well - those who took from their masters and inverted, converted, to find "pride" in humility, in humiliation.
Twisting defeat to victory, repeated errors converted to mystical signs of hidden genius - method to the madness.

Gangsta lifestyles, inverting the pedestal making the base the highest point of focus, the centrepiece -  complete with drugs to confuse the experience and make it profound, instead of a degradation of the human spirit.
A way of coping with reality, that the individual cannot on its own, using its own energies; chemical numbness, visions included.
Contact with some "other realm" where anything is possible, and the sequence of words do not matter - it's all sensation, feeling, emotion.
Embalming before death, using artificial joy.
Their old master's death cults, expressed in gluttonous hedonism, and luxurious earthly living, inverted to a "life cult", expressed in a desire to find power after death, or through mummification of the dead body, animated because it is still alive, while it is still alive.
Sacrificing corporeal self, to rise as pure spirit, pure mind - man detached from himself: spirit with no form, presence with no past, no nature.

Words shaped into rhythmic chants - magical incantations, removed from the world they are to escape from; detached for the detaching tribe.
Sentences of word-association, arranged in insinuating rhyme - superficial, or senseless, but the rhythms is the message, the ordering...the beats.
Language reduced to tone and heartbeat - the meaning does not matter, it's all bragging, posturing, sexual, anyway.
You have to surrender to the groove, let go.    

Down to the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "genius" to inspire the herd-mind, with sexual beats and self-valuing chatter, with visions of coming freedom.
cRAP is all about gossip.

Self-referencing, self-flattering, Me-Me, presented as aristocracy - directly from the jungle book version of Nietzsche - the latest interpretation, the newest testament - marketed by the masters of lies and faking, masking, covering, appearances.
Slaves are what he needs to exploit, and lead out of the pyramid's shadow.
If they are to be lost, then let them be lost together, and in this togetherness find themselves reflected in other - identity in mutual appreciation - inner lusciousness dealing with the outer wastelands they escape into.
The "outside" does not matter, ti is mater - this is spirit - everything goes in the spirit, in the esoteric, because the guide is sensation, instinct.   
Into the deserts where their coming shared thirst will bind them into a cult, converting it to a religion of the few, the chosen.

Wilson, Erik wrote:
The lunar stage is the precursor to the sun, the rubedo. Achieved by melting and recrystallizing the white, the rubedo figures the process by which the Red King marries the White Queen to produce the philosopher’s stone. During this stage, the spiritual force of the red penetrates the purified body of the white, sublimating her from virgin to wife. The rubedo reveals Mercurius thriving as pure spirit, a fiery jewel capable of combining all oppositions into dynamic harmony—the philosopher’s stone. In synthesizing life and death as well as chaos and order, this rubedo jewel is not simply life, the eternal infant; it is also death, the dying king.

The completed homunculus is also a version of the stone. After having been nourished for forty weeks by red human blood, he comes fully formed from the artificial womb in which he has been incubating.

--The Melancholy Android

Tiny humunculus, the wyrm, dreaming of becoming a Read Monster, needs a White Queen, to complete his transformation.
Male or female, does not matter - the spirit is one of surrender, of virginal purity.
He gestates in artificial wombs, nourishing himself with the blood of others - transfusions of what he lacks in himself.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:38 pm

FC wrote:
Senility aside ( so so sorry to see , as P said old age is really an evil thing in some ) there are other debilitations that deserve a note.

Basically anyone who is afraid of using drugs, or who has tried it once and could not handle it, has an unstable psyche, largely unintegrated subconscious. Ive seen it so many times, and the thread elsewhere is revealing.

To get into a car while feeling one can not control ones body is another sign - a complete lack of conscience. Passive within ones psyche, a rag doll.

All healthy cultures use drugs to explore and heal (make whole) the organism. The human body is a chemical system and to be afraid to play with it indicates a very frail type of system. Any faith or creed that instills fear of drugs is on a very basic level insane and breeds sociopaths and psychopaths. And simple wretched folk.

Further, in the same vein, latent homosexuals are always deeply afraid of using any kind of drug. Drugs bring out psychological truth, it's as simple as that. 'Bad trips' are phases of painful integration. 'Birth pangs of honesty'.

Of course too much of anything is always bad. But perhaps most of all that goes for 'sobriety' - especially when it this word refers to the neurotic ascetism commanded by the very naive, deeply superstitious belief that ones can see oneself clearly without having spent a lot of time exploring ones inner world and psychological (and thus physiological) boundaries.

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In other words, what it amounts to is the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Huxley wrote:
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution-then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." [Brave New World]

Huxley wrote:
"Two thousand pharmacologists and bio-chemists were subsidized. Six years later it was being produced commercially. The perfect drug. Euphoric, narcotic, pleasantly hallucinant. All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects. Take a holiday from reality whenever you like, and come back without so much as a headache or a mythology. Stability was practically assured." [Brave New World]

Huxley wrote:
"Rational and kindly behavior tends to produce good results and these results remain good even when the behavior which produced them was itself produced by a pill."
[Brave New World Revisited, in Moksha: Writings on Psychedelics and the Visionary Experience, New York, 1977, p. 99]


Maybe next, we shall be told how instead of eating food, swallowing vitamins and supplements and pills and powders would loosen the 'repression' of agricultural 'toiling' and being 'free' and return to health.

To the case of: "cleansing the doors of perception" and "expansion of consciousness", one should ask what consciousness, what genius, what poetry, what art have the Black Drug-Thugs produced?!

Even Castaneda who is one of my favourite shamanic authors had this to say:

Castaneda wrote:
"She (Datura) is as powerful as the best of allies, but there is something I personally don't like about her. She distorts men. She gives them a taste of power too soon without fortifying their hearts and makes them domineering and unpredictable. She makes them weak in the middle of their great power."

A drug basically dis-locates the rational mode of nutrition.
"Expansion of consciousness" is inaccurate. Sub-conscious vomit gets discharged, that is expressed in vivid colours and impressions and shapes and moods as remnants of things that could not be organized properly for lack of capacity or time or repressed under other pressures. What one sees under the influence is the sub-conscious record that merely gets re-organized differently after temprary dis-location, that one feels they are in a "new space" now.

Point being, dislocations and "trips" do nothing to alter the fact that what you take in is what will show out no matter what kind of drugs you do.
Cleansing your system by periodic fasting and vomit were meant to be "assistive corrections" to a disciplinary way of life, which in this case for some, would be increasing the diet with the waxing of the moon and decreasing the diet with the waning of the moon, for example.

Drugs are no answer for the onus being on oneself to remain vigorous in the face of life.

Anything that is unpleasant and stands in the way of personal happiness and stirnerite "freedom" could be an objection, a repression… and instead of feeling that "Thaumazein", that "wonder" of reality in both its greatness and terribleness as true intoxication, its easier to become part of the victim culture and justify drugs as "loosening repression" and experiencing everything unpleasant as oppressive.

Sickly hedonistic prudes and exhausted nihilists who find life too much to affirm its terribleness, like Fixed, would now scream "repression" and "objectification" at anything that is in the natural logic of power, of life - be that crony capitalism or institutionalized Xt. or whatever.

The true sign and [p]ill-logic of the decadent nihilist:

Nietzsche wrote:
"When the exhausted appeared with the gesture of the highest activity and energy (when degeneration effected an excess of spiritual and nervous discharge), they were mistaken for the rich. They excited fear.- The cult of the fool is always the cult of those rich in life, the powerful. The fanatic, the possessed, the religious epileptic, all eccentrics have been experienced as the highest types of power: as divine.

This kind of strength that excites fear was considered pre-eminently divine: here was the origin of authority; here one interpreted, heard, sought wisdom.- This led to the development, almost everywhere, of a will to "deify," i.e., a will to the typical degeneration of spirit, body, and nerves: an attempt to find the way to this higher level of being. To make oneself sick, mad, to provoke the symptoms of derangement and ruin-that was taken for becoming stronger, more superhuman, more terrible, wiser.

One thought that in this way one became so rich in power that one could give from one's fullness. Wherever one adored one sought one who could give.

Here the experience of intoxication proved misleading. This increases the feeling of power in the highest degree-therefore, naively judged, power itself. On the highest rung of power one placed the most intoxicated, the ecstatic. (-There are two sources of intoxication: the over-great fullness of life and a state of pathological nourishment of the brain." [WTP, 48]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Weakness as a task: weakening the desires, the feelings of pleasure and displeasure, the will to power, to a sense of pride, to want to have and have more; weakening as meekness; weaken- ing as faith; weakening as aversion and shame in the face of everything natural, as negation of life, as sickness and habitual weakness-weakening as the renunciation of revenge, of resistance, of enmity and wrath.
The error in treatment: one does not want to fight weakness with a systeme fortifiant (a method that strengthens),' but rather with a kind of justification and moralization; i.e., with an interpretation.-" [WTP, 47]

Redubbing "pale criminals" as "artists", and their nervous weakness for violence as an example of High Culture is a Pill-age of health and hygiene.

What "expansion of consciousness" has cRap music produced?!
cRap-music that either glorifies or cautions drug-use is a Sublimation of their degenerate violence.
cRap-music mirrors the Black's own pathological fear of Blacks as an exhausted Type.

Where is the natural nude form of the unabashed Greek sculpture, to the unnatural, uninhibited nakedness of wearing your trousers below your ass with shites for brains?! Fixed would have us affirm that grunting all that ghetto-grammar-swagger-shagger is the utter-purity of the unrepressed 'human'… and why nuances between beast and animal will be lost on those drug-damaged like Fixed.

There are many levels of the Dionysian.
The raw, unpolished, virile beast is not the same as the blind, blunt, blundering animal.

Drugs, sex, and the need for stimulants and consequent depression grows in those who cannot en-joy life through its most slowest and fastest points and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] born of fantasies of false romanticist optimisms of how much can be done and how much is going to waste, making them sad and irate and hope-lessly pushed to drugs for that kick, do not realize their own dis-honest justifications-turned-philosophy are the consequence of their own Xt. Arrogance.

I have already quoted this before:

Quote :
"Compassion is the most agreeable feeling for those who have little pride and no prospect of great conquests; for them, easy prey - and that is what those who suffer are - is something enchanting.
Compassion is praised as the virtue of prostitutes." [N., JW, 13]

Quote :
"Whenever we are noticed to be suffering, our suffering is superficially construed; it is the essence of the feeling of compassion that it strips the suffering of what is truly personal: our 'benefactors' diminish our worth and our will more than our enemies do. In most cases of beneficence toward those in distress there is something offensive in the intellectual frivolity with which the one who feels compassion plays the role of fate: he knows nothing of the whole inner sequence and interconnection that spells misfortune for me or for you! The entire economy of my soul and the balance effected by 'misfortune' , the breaking open of new springs and needs, the healing of old wounds, the shedding of entire periods of the past - all such things that can be involved in misfortune do not concern the dear compassionate one: they want to help and have no thought that there is a personal necessity of misfortune; that terrors, deprivations, impoverishments, midnight, adventures, risks, and blunders are as necessary for me and you as their opposites; indeed, to express myself mystically, that the path to one's own heaven always leads through the voluptuousness of one's own hell.
No, they know nothing of that: the 'religion of compassion' (or 'the heart') commands them to help, and they believe they have helped best when they have helped most quickly! Should you adherents to this religion really have the same attitude towards yourselves that you havetowards your fellow men; should you refuse to let your suffering lie on you even for an hour and instead constantly prevent all possible misfortune ahead of time; should you experience suffering and displeasure as evil, hateful, deserving of annihilation, as a defect of existence, then you have besides your religion of pity also another religion in your hearts; and the latter is perhaps the mother of the former - the religion of snug cosiness. Oh, how little do you know of the happiness of man, you comfortable and good-natured ones! For happiness and misfortune (Gluck und Ungluck) are two siblings and twins who either grow up together or - as with you - remain small together!" [N., JW, 338]

Quote :
"As regards the distress of the soul, however, I look at each person today to see whether he knows it through experience or description; whether he still considers it necessary to fake this knowledge, say, as a sign of refined cultivation, or whether at the bottom of his soul he no longer believes in great pains of the soul and reacts to its mention in much the same way as to the mention of great bodily sufferings, which make him think of his toothaches and stomachaches. But that is how most people seem to me to be these days. The general inexperience with both sorts of pain and the relative rarity of the sight of suffering individuals have an important consequence: pain is hated much more now than formerly; one speaks much worse of it; indeed, one can hardly endure the presence of pain as a thought and makes it a matter of conscience and a reproach against the whole of existence. The emergence of pessimistic philosophers is in no way the sign of great, terrible states of distress; rather, these question marks about the value of all life are made in times when the refinement and ease of existence make even the inevitable mosquito bites of the soul and the body seem much too bloody and malicious, and the poverty of real experiences of pain makes one tend to consider painful general ideas as already suffering of the highest rank." [N., JW, 48]


Quote :
"If one considers how an overall philosophical justification of one's way of living and thinking affects each individual namely, like a sun, warming, blessing, impregnating, shining especially for him; how it makes him independent of praise and blame, selfsufficient, rich, generous with happiness and good will; how it incessantly turns evil into good, brings all forces to bloom and ripen and keeps the petty, great weed of melancholy and moroseness from coming up at all - one exclaims longingly, in the end: Oh, how I wish that many such new suns would yet be created! Even the evil man, the unhappy man, and the exceptional man should have their philosophy, their good right, their sunshine! Pity for them is not what is needed! We have to  unlearn this arrogant notion, however long humanity has spent learning  and practising it - we do not need to present them with confessors,  conjurers of souls, and forgivers of sins; rather, a new justice is needed!  And a new motto! And new philosophers! The moral earth, too, is  round! The moral earth, too, has its antipodes! The antipodes, too, have  their right to exist!" [N., JW, 289]

The Arrogance of the "Improvers of Mankind" always presents its decadent nihilism as grass-roots 'humility', of being 'close to the earth', 'mutual respect', while it robs the others and of life in general of its innocence-of-becoming.


As to the rest of Fixed's cRap, his very very (p)ill-logic is as demented as saying, anyone who is afraid of shunning AIDS and closing their minds to parasites is a latent homosexual. lolzzz

Fixed Trips on power.
(as in he trips on power).

When he reads "Virulent Parasites", he sees only Virulence and (p)raises its power. Anything that is in power, is automatically Supreme to him.

Funny, how a year ago, it was he who said,

FC wrote:
Harnesses for the psyche, easy to devise, natural to buy - but on the other hand it's easy for a delicate natural balance to die off in this way.

What good are realizations that do not become in-corporated?
Such are power-"trips".

Funny also, how N. for all his pain and depression and "dionysianism" never chose to take drugs… guess that makes him a rag-doll homo, to the prude bride of Christ. What an "alpha philosopher" Fixed is!

_________________
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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:58 pm

FC wrote:
For the record, childrens of Jesus, I have no addiction. I opted for weed when I was living in the crammed and moron-infested village Amsterdam so as to create some space and help me lead a nightly life.

Here, where I have space, I occasionally use some chemical when a girl offers it becaue it's a wonderful part of life. I do not crave weed, or any drug anymore. I just love them and have abandoned the idea of "quitting". That was my only addiction.

But relax. I do not expect yous to actually overcome your puniness. Stay 'sober', high on panic, like the ants you are. Work hard and die wondering 'was this it?'
No one cares.

Transposing my Great Quotes list to this thread.

"Even animals are racist and sexist."

A sharp Jew across from me in the restaurant, Socratizing a not so sharp more humanist Jew that seems inlaw family.
Imagine this with heavy Jiddish accent. I can barely hold my laughter.

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A culture of drugs isn't only restricted to visions for consciousness-expansion.

Silly, men on steroids and such drugs can justify the "powerful" feeling of consciousness of their strength and how differently they experience reality now in their "new confidence", means something only if survival for its own sake is all that mattered… like a good ant, like a plain animal.

For the real man who is not a hedonist craving pleasure, because he Knows the Joy that he is founded on his own strength in the face of reality; such drugs can mean nothing and no substitute for confidence, valour or honour.

Craftiness belongs to nature, to Odysseus, "the problem of the actor" had to do with overcoming odds, even cheating odds as a supplement to one's strength, not displacement.

If its steroids, then one can expand from there to cosmetic surgeries.. why not?

If confidence is all that mattered, and my perception of reality can become positive by affecting the people, the environment that perceives the new me,…  what remains of the meaning of any Health or Healing?

And as to the whole homo thing,, Fixed states his folly was his own sexual objectification in making another man submit to him….,,,, but no. His folly is failing even now to realize that He was the submissive "giving in" to peer pressure, when he cites the reason he did it was to overcome fear of impressions.
If I began giving into every taunt and jeering by every tom and dick, that doesn't make me brave, it makes me a foolish slave. A man needs to prove his worth, not become a performer.
His fixation with images and how he is perceived and the impressions he wants to leave make a slave of him.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:07 pm

So he states that it is either: Work and die, like ants; or else Work and do drugs and die..
Says enough I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:43 pm

Wilson, Erik wrote:
These questions point to two views of magic. In one, growing from the Book of Creation, the universe is magical. Each creature thrives
through its participation in God’s alphabet. Man’s practice of God’s magic is not a violation of sacred order but a realization of spiritual
potential.
In the other view, based on the Zohar, magic is a result of the fall, Adam’s violation of God’s law.
Magical knowledge emerges from the leaves of the Tree of Knowledge with which Adam covers his nakedness after he eats the fruit.
Magic in this instance is a veil covering Adam’s shame.
If the magic of the Book of Creation requires transcendence of fear and desire, a return to Eden, then the magic intimated by the Zohar results from fear and desire and marks the separation between Eden and humanity. Most medieval visions of the golem issue from the former tradition. However, later legends of the golem are connected to the latter tradition.

In the Middle Ages, the cosmological magic of the Book of Creation was practiced by proponents of “ecstatic” kabbalah. Adepts such as Eleazar of Worms and Abraham Abulafia saw golem making as a culmination of the mystical experience, a symbol of union with Godhead.
Both instructed adepts to form mud into a man and to animate him by reciting sacred letters. Once made, this figure served no practical purpose. It was not put to work or made to protect. It was simply a “demonstration” of the “power of the holy Name.” Like the homunculus, it was a revelation of the unity between spirit and matter that was severed after the fall, a sacred technology recalling the adept to this harmony. This symbolic golem was dissolved as soon as it was made.

---Melancholy Android


Wilson, Erik wrote:
Loew’s golem suggests that when one wishes to destroy matter with matter, one risks creating the opposite of what one hoped for—risks sinking deeper into the mire than before. Issuing from a tradition hoping to restore the world to Eden, the golem is meant to move against the grain of material existence. In some cases, if crafted by a magus beyond the fears and desires of the fallen world, the creature can embody the anthropos unfallen and lead its maker to unity.
However, the dangers are high, for in order to fashion this sacred machine, one must sink into matter, know its qualities, shape its clods, moisten it to mud, smooth it to a human. This being is a mess requiring messy work. In undertaking this labor, one is hard pressed to avoid suffering the limitations of material existence—fear and desire, decay and death—and imbuing the golem with human traits. The creation of a redemptive golem becomes even more difficult when one is fashioning the creature to carry out human chores—sweeping the floor, protecting the oppressed.

Though these are not ignoble activities, they are part of space and time. If the golem is designed to carry out these tasks, it again risks accruing the wants and aversions of its maker, becoming vulnerable to love and death. Add to these problems the fact that the golem daily increases in
size and power and you have the possibility of a horrendous machine that can reduce heterogeneous life to homogeneous death.
This is not to say that the noble Rabbi Loew is a failed golem maker.
Nor is it to suggest that the Jewish mystics practice a magic inferior to that of the ancient Egyptians, the Alexandrian Hermeticists, or the Renaissance alchemists. It is simply to claim that the golem, along with the homunculus, is much more likely than the mummy to become accursed.
The reason: the golem, like the homunculus, is an effect of exile, distance from the divine.
This kabbalistic creature and its alchemical counterpart are more prone to the creator’s horror and yearning than is the Egyptian android.
Of these two androids issuing from alienation, the golem for two reasons tends more toward the monstrous than
the homunculus.
First, the golem as a condensation of telluric force is larger and stronger than the manikin.
Second, the golem as servant or weapon is more prone to violence than is the symbolic homunculus.
Though the golem can on occasion issue from Ficino’s melancholia, charitable sadness open to the eternal, it more frequently originates in Freud’s despair, obsessive mourning turned angrily inward. Born in this half-conscious mire, the golem is mostly doomed to sink into the same neuroses that haunt its creator.
For this reason, the figure of the golem is more likely to be linked to work than to play. Though the symbolical golem of ecstatic Kabbalah approaches the mercurial play of the homunculus, the more prevalent practical golem constitutes a stark contrast to the lithe little man.

The practical golem is designed solely to labor—to fulfill the temporally focused will of its creator. Constrained to external forces, this sort of golem is generally limited either to the stuff drive or the form drive.
As a slave to the commands of his master, he is little different from brute matter, a tool with no autonomy. If the golem rebels against his maker’s rules, then he becomes the opposite of mere matter; he turns principle in motion, cipher for freedom, an idea.

These extremes trap the golem, and frequently its maker, in an either/or situation, a scene of the excluded middle that ensures that creator and creature can occupy only one of two positions: master or slave, abstract or concrete, free or fated.
Lacking the disciplined freedom, the controlled accident, of the third term, golem and maker, regardless of whether they occupy master or slave, are in the end bereft of autonomy: either predictable stuff or unwavering form. Such a situation is thoroughly gothic, characterized by obsession and fixation.
Throbbing between slave and master, the golem illuminates our current relationship to machines, humanoid or otherwise. Though we like to think that we retain sovereignty over our mechanisms, we are probably utterly dependent on these contraptions.
The problem is, we don’t know.
Are we in control of computers, or do microchips dictate our DNA? While this question cuts to the heart of human relationships to machines in any age, this inquiry is most pertinent to those periods, like ours and the earlier romantic period, when technology threatens the autonomy of man.

---Melancholy Android

Wilson, Erik wrote:
THE GOLEM IN BLADE RUNNER

Our century has witnessed numerous films on the golem myth—not only Paul Wegener’s three films devoted to the golem (1915, 1917, and 1920) but also the numerous movies focused on Frankenstein, especially James Whale’s 1931 masterpiece with Universal and Terence Fisher’s 1959 Hammer Studio remake. The ubiquity of these movies demonstrates the lasting psychological resonance of the golem and also suggests that this figure holds special power in an age when the construction and care of machines has become the core of existence. The best of the golem movies, Scott’s Blade Runner, is keenly aware of the psychological and cultural depths of the animated machine….

The film’s kabbalistic magus is Tyrell, a technological genius who manufactures androids known as Replicants. In crafting these mechanisms, Tyrell fulfills his greedy desires but also rectifies the errors of fallen matter—ugliness and stupidity, decay and fear. To these ends, he develops the Nexus 6, an android indiscernible from human beings.
Though Tyrell develops this machine to serve as a slave to human wants, he nonetheless imbues this artifice with superhuman grace and intelligence. A Nexus 6, Roy is keenly aware of his slave status but is also conscious of his superiority over humans….

Caught between Tyrell, seemingly a human unhindered by fate, and Roy, ostensibly an automaton who cannot enjoy freedom, is Deckard.
Deckard is an “everyman” standing proxy for those in the movie audience trapped between determinism and liberation. His name recalls Descartes, who argued that men and women are machines and souls at the same time. Deckard appears to be human.
As a bounty hunter of Replicants, he specializes in discerning between organisms and machines. He administers to suspected Replicants a test (the VoightKampf) designed to reveal emotional deficiencies. He recognizes renegade Replicants and shoots them. But Deckard also exhibits mechanistic behaviors. His Zombie-like character displays no emotion. His life is a predictable grind: he kills Replicants; he drinks whisky to dull his guilt; he kills Replicants again; he drinks some more.
Deckard’s ambiguous condition is highlighted when he meets Rachael, Tyrell’s latest Replicant model. Hired by the police to hunt and kill Roy and his band of rebellious Replicants, Deckard visits the Tyrell Corporation. At Tyrell’s bidding he administers the Voight-Kampf test to Rachael. Tyrell wants to see if she can pass for a human. Not aware that she is a Replicant, Rachael asks the apathetic Deckard if he could pass the test. This inquiry raises the possibility that Deckard, though seemingly organic, is an android, and that Rachael, through apparently mechanistic, is a human…

Deckard and Rachael are the fallen Adam and Eve. Between freedom and fate, they lack clarity of vision and action. Deckard is confused over whether he is artifice or organ, over whether he kills machines or humans. These ambiguities cast doubt over how he should act toward Rachael and Roy. Rachael is Replicant and woman. She is Deckard’s victim and his lover. Caught in epistemological and ethical crisis, Deckard and Rachael do not know what they see or how they act. The grace of the machine—clear sight and motor elegance—is clotted by the confusion of the organ. The nobility of the organ—moral vision and ethical fortitude—is flattened by the indifference of the machine. These are the splits of self-consciousness, results of the fall….

The only character close to the ideal eye is Roy. In his first appearance, Roy visits the factory where Replicants’ eyes are made. Though Roy is visiting this factory in hopes of prolonging his four-year mechanical life, he is also passionate about vision. When he confronts an engineer, he says proudly, “If only you could see what I’ve seen with your eyes.”
This line emphasizes what makes Roy superior to Deckard and Rachel.
Deckard and Rachel oscillate between immediate perceptions whose validity they doubt and mediated conceptions incapable of providing clarity. Roy embraces immediate visual experiences not as sites of faith or skepticism but as aesthetic events: harmonies of percept and concept, energy and form, instinct and intuition. Not troubled by the gap between unconscious apprehension and self-conscious comprehension or by doubts over whether objects are real, Roy values experiences insofar as they are beautiful or horrifying. This aesthetic perspective allows him to participate in the flux of experience without fearing determinism and to discern enduring patterns without suffering skepticism.
This is the difference between aesthetic experience and abstract knowledge. To gain the former, one must meld instincts and ideas; to try for the latter, one must sever the pulses from geometries. Roy would see in the rose fire flickering into multifoliate morphology.
Deckard and Rachel would ask: are the petals machines or organs?...

Roy expresses this aesthetic vision in his culminating scene. He and Deckard have been engaged in a vicious battle throughout an old rotted building. At a certain point, Roy becomes the hunter and Deckard the hunted. Fleeing, Deckard reaches the roof of a building. When Deckard sees Roy effortlessly achieve this height, he attempts to escape by leaping over to the adjoining building. He falls short and ends up hanging on a slick metal beam. Bearing in his hand a white dove (the annunciation, the virgin conception, the birth of spirit from matter), Roy easily makes the jump. He stands above the desperate Deckard and reminds him that this state—this hovering in limbo—is an extreme version of Deckard’s existence so far:

‘Quite an experience to live in fear, isn’t it? This is what it means to be a slave.’

The opposite of life, the detached attachment of aesthetic participation, is slavery, full attachment to fear and desire—fear over unanswerable ontological and epistemological questions, desire to enjoy total certainty and security. After presenting for Deckard the limitations of his existence, Roy pulls him up to the roof. Deckard falls to rise, dying to his old self, the slave, and becoming alive to new being, the vitality of the aesthetic condition. Now baptized by Roy, he sits at the side of his liberator. Roy sits as well, and leaves Deckard with his last wisdom.

These lines are accounts of aesthetic experiences, memories of especially beautiful and horrifying moments:
‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.’


These are numinous shimmers of the violent harmony into which the cosmos occasionally coheres. Such instances are ephemeral but they nonetheless comprise portals to the eternal, the condition in which one is no longer troubled by time—the past as regret or nostalgia, the future as anticipation or dread. The foliate flames of dying ships, the scintillations of unexpected beams—these events seize the watcher, pulling him from the cares of the ego and opening him to marvels unfettered by minutes and maps. Roy’s decision to die, his control over his own demise, figures this aesthetic interplay between the evanescent and the durable. His passing becomes aesthetic—a memorable pattern arising from and rising above the forgetfulness of time.

---Melancholy Android

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:39 am

FC wrote:
Your resentment is sickening, absolute. I had never imagined such lows. Moreno and Lyssa (forget my care, its her, the Bitch) both worms alike.

The oinklet Fixed ejaculating in another one of her periodic PMS hysteria or was it more Purple Haze narcissism cloulding her eyes again?

These days she has become so full of her pusillanimity, and her missionary zeal to kneel so low, has peeled all light away,, in the dark, she cant even make out friend from foe; for some hilarity, see:
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Nothing gives me more pleasure than having you see me everywhere and in everyone, dumbass! I want you to be just like that… if there's one thing more entertaining than watch you masturbate To your stupidity (VOt), its having you masturbating and drenched IN your own stupidity.

Quote :
Pezer, no more favors to KTS now.

Pezer? He was doing KTS a favor? Arrogant condescension is pretty when there is some, any, substance to it,,, and petty, when someone cant even come to clear the integrity of a false accusation such as your spineless lying that I told Pezer to stop doing philosophy… I can understand Pezer not showing up, because it would mean going against his friend, and having the honesty and decency to tell him what a baseless, lying (s)cumbag he is. I excuse the poor Pezer being put in a tight spot, and for a few morsels of some pompous writings, has to sacrifice honesty and listen to Fixed whining orders of "do this Pezer", "don't do this Pezer"...

FC wrote:
Let them choke and rot.

So says someone who cant come kill in person herself.

FC wrote:
Whatever beauty one may perceive in the half-witch

I would have used "half-wit(ch)" for a better punch…
You'll always be learning your Martial rigour from me. Just like how it was I who made you so courageous and clean enough to speak your mind boldly today, and not be wishy-washy in all that fake, stuffy civility like you used to be before, Prince Vogue-al-frei; and I'll always continue to do so and hound you, the bitch that I am, and that is satisfying enough.
Let all that dis/eased discharge out at me,,, To cleaner and cleaner health!!
The *pinch* of "Birth-pangs" is not easy, sweets.

FC wrote:
in disregarding her banal intellectual imcompetence

Like the pill-logical hypo-Chris(t)y of how Pezer and you Value on My behalf and what I should focus myself on?

How about I Value on Your behalf and tell you to focus on playing the piano? How about I tell you, you'd be doing mankind a favor sticking to that? How about I tell and decide for you where your full potential lies and how the best, efficient self-valuing can be tapped out of you?

If you hypoChri(s)ts can bathe in your f----ing Arrogance and go about telling people where their highest use is and sell such bs debauchery in the name of "Self-Valuing",,, how about I tell you what to do and where to use your fingers and put to good use?

How about that, huh?

Dressing up such a dipshite "ontology" in 'philosophical' jargon that masks one's own Arrogance is neither philosophy, nor an Artist's license to sculpt others. Its pure religious scoundrelism, just because someone happened to be healed under a raving black pastor.
Idiot.

meow kitty wrote:
that dooms her to Satyrs bed

But its you that I get wet for coward-dearest, or atleast Satyr has seen it in his third eye
It all comes down to the length of the white snake ultimately, or in your case, some other color, meow kitty.
If women called you Beast in bed, which I believe they did,, I'll have you know men have called me Holy mother of God! My miracles are quite other-worldly…

Tell me Fixed, what if you were married to a beautiful model, and she wanted to Self-Value as an actress that involved her getting f---ed up her ass by another actor, would Your Self-valuing go with you to the opening night and clap hands for the phenomenal scene of your wife getting f----ed in front of millions and p/raise her artistry and the human-arche powers of how 'high' she could reach?
Just asking…

Maybe you should contemplate on that "perimeter value of truth" of your bs theology instead of uselessly wanking about...

meow wrote:
(Ive told you time and time again not to cultivate high aims for her, she will resist them tooth and claw) it is carried by the deep biological dis-ease that can simply not endure happiness. In a word, Ugliness. Existential stench.

The musk-a-tear of a meow kitty   *scratch*

Alas, my cursed life doomed to forever wander the world, never knowing the Happiness of getting (prog)rammed by Fixed Cross' potent and flashy flash-drive

I coulda been the anoinKted one…






FC wrote:
I knew that when Id open this thread Id see the insight I had before comfirmed: an inescapable insight into the cruelty of what weve been doing, revealing heights to those who are biologically doomed to be excluded from Earthly happiness.

Don't leave me Fixed…….

even if a doomed hag be gagging as a blowfish to full-value in Satyr's bed

Cum back to me superhero, my flying dutchman, my unknown happiness, my ghost protocol...

FC wrote:
This thread will continue, of course. But it must do so blind to the foulness it enslaves wide beyond its actual aims.

The hypo-Chri(s)t speaks.

FC wrote:
Those who are watching silently in honorable appreciation, I will do you the honor now of forever banishing the unworthy from my eyes, and thus their remnants from my words.

The Spectacular Red Dragon…

"The lamb is becoming a lion.
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" [Hannibal, Season 3]

FC wrote:
A new Clan gathering/Philosophical Politics will follow soon.

That inter-missionary zeal, I tell ya…

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:41 pm

meow wrote:
Does ILP have camels left?

Zoot, possibly Trixie/J-qr, Lys.

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The only one who's been Humping about is Fixed, and if that doesn't make him the biggest Camel, his wee-O is one gaping gigantic Cameltoe; and now, lets enjoy SloterDijk widen that wee-O pussyhole of a religious stupidity...

Sloterdijk wrote:
"If, in spite of all our reservations, it were permissible to speak of a Jewish campaign, this expression could only refer to what Leo Baeck termed, in Das Wesen des Judentums [The Nature of Judaism] (1905), the ‘struggle for self-preservation’. Certainly, according to Baeck, it is impossible to conceive of Judaism as a whole without the ‘force of instruction and conversion’, but this potential was only able to take effect in an introverted and defensive direction during almost 2,000 years of diaspora. ‘People understood that mere existence can already be a declaration, a sermon to the world … The mere fact that one existed posited some meaning… Self-preservation was experienced as preservation through God.’ One Christian author exaggerated these statements to the most obvious extent by declaring that, for him, the continued existence of Judaism in the world of today constitutes no less than a historical proof of God's existence. Advocates of evolutionist neuro-rhetoric would say that the longevity of Judaism proves the precise vertical duplicability of the memoactive rituals practised among this people. As Judaism invested its religious surpluses of meaning in its self-preservation as a people and a ritual community, its physical existence became charged with metaphysical ideas that amounted to the fulfilment of a mission – one more reason why the physical attack on Judaism can go hand in hand with the desire for its spiritual and moral eradication." [God's Zeal]

be…ing is already a victory is what VOt teaches.

conatal existence is already a victory.

The religion of very zealous jealous Zealots… zzzzz


All that junk inside your trunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get, you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump.
My hump, my hump, my hump, my hump, my hump,
My hump, my hump, my hump, my lovely little lumps (Check it out)

I drive these brothers crazy,
I do it on the daily…
My hump, my hump, my hump (love),
My humps they got you…


That's how you address him...

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:27 am

Monotheistic Narcissism a.k.a 'Distinctiveness' or 'Value-Plurality' of 'Self-Chosenness' masquerading as N.'s Pathos of Distance:


Sloterdijk wrote:
"Early religious cult systems – whatever else they might be – can be viewed in their primary manner of effect as ethnoplastic systems of rules. By imposing shared narratives, rituals and norms on a collective, they mould the practising collectives into carriers – into the subject-object, philosophically speaking – of those same conceptions and procedures. Thus the phenomenon of religion (in the era before its individualistic differentiation in modernity, at least) seems initially to be tied entirely to the time-honoured functions of group synthesis. The biological reproduction of a ‘culture’ or ethnic collective is necessarily accompanied by the passing on of the group-specific system of symbols and rituals. The fact that these simple observations lead to non-trivial consequences can be clarified by the following reflections. It is no coincidence that ethnologists, anthropologists and theologians have been claiming for some time that no indications have been found anywhere in the world pointing to the existence of completely ‘irreligious peoples’ – and how could they, when the phenomenon of peoples as such is engendered only by the collective-integrative effects of shared rites and histories, conventionally known as ‘religions’. The assumption of a people existing completely without religion would amount to the paradoxical assertion that there can be stabilized collectives which dispense with all connecting media and do not become acquainted with any symbolic bond, shared history or firm normative commitments. This would mean virtually postulating a people devoid of content – and thus more a random crowd than a physically and spiritually self-reproducing unit.

For the same reason, a people in any meaningful sense of the word thus cannot exist without its language – provided one understands language not merely as a vehicle for everyday communication but also, and most importantly, as a medium for imprinting the most culturally important subjects on the consciousness of its speakers. From this perspective, language is primarily the organ of relevance. Humans can only claim to speak a language properly once they can say in it what is vital for life. Naturally, this highest level of relevance always includes local ideas about the collective’s conditions of survival and salvation. Thoughts about this are not exchanged in passing under the palaver tree or the well but are usually etched in the memories of a collective’s members in moments of terrible seriousness, often in emotional stress situations resulting from bloody sacrificial acts. In the history of cultures so far, the establishment of the highest-ranking motifs of relevance has often been connected to procedures enforcing a pedagogy of pain and suffering.

There is no need to expand on why, among the notions significant for salvation and survival that are passed on through language and rites within the internal space of an ethnicity, it is the instructions for preserving differences of status that almost always play an outstanding part. In early folk religions, making leadership positions imposing was one of the sources of the sacred. To ensure hierarchical control over the collective, most early peoples cloaked the chief and leader roles, and later the royal ranks, with an aura of sacred import and bestowed upon them the power to determine the life or death of their own people as well as strangers. One can generally observe that the preferred activity of early religions was concerning themselves with the sacralization of leadership.  In addition, they focused on the symbolic aggrandizement and cultic securing of protective spaces, burial sites and important foodstuffs.

Related thoughts manifest themselves in Johann Gottfried Herder’s suggestive remark that, ‘among the most uncultivated people, the language of religion is ever the most ancient and obscure.’ The increasing opacity of older religious languages is substantially due to the fact that, in the course of the civilization process, some gestures and turns of phrase are forgotten that were previously required in order to commit the collective to its own inner cohesion and ideas of sacred relevance. Such figures are later carried along erratically by the current of sacred traditions as petrified relics of an obsolete selfconstraint. As one can observe from the seventeenth century on in Europe, modernizing cultures subject themselves to an accelerated change in the forms of self-constraint (especially following the replacement of the sacred victim constraint by secular institutes such as the constraints of schooling and taxation), with the inevitable result that participants in modern social games no longer perceive earlier methods of alignment merely as venerable relics, but increasingly as dark embarrassments.

Where there is a people, there is always also the crystallization nucleus of a religion; and where there is religion, the embodiment of the creating divine is implied by a special languagebased ethnic manifestation. Because, from the perspective of this over-eager cultural theology, peoples per se carry divine sparks inside themselves, it is in their nature to speak as theopoetic collectives. In doing so, they manifest themselves at wildly varying degrees of explicitness as local carriers of a potentially generalizable idea of God.

Just how old the beleaguered awareness of the existence of a multiethnic problem really is is demonstrated by, among other things, the myth of the Tower of Babel. The authors of this equally brief and momentous tale (which, according to current research, was inserted into the Book of Genesis [Bereshit] in the Pentateuch in post-exilic times, meaning at the dawn of the sixth century) made it easier for themselves to access the problematic issue by placing the bold assumption of a monolingual humanity at the start. The editors of the tower myth, priests returning to Palestine from Babylon who saw no reason to hide their anti-imperial affect, simply equated monolinguality with unanimity and unanimity with despicable arrogance. From the clerical perspective, arrogance leads directly to self-deification. In the architectural dialect, this results in the decision to erect a tower reaching up to heaven. It is no surprise that this displeases a Jewish God from Sinai, here already dated back to prehistory. In his wrath he shatters the languages of the builders, thus causing them to scatter in all directions – until finally, for better or worse, seventy-two peoples with as many languages and cults settle on the earth, sufficiently far apart and deeply inwardly estranged from one another.10 The nuisance of ethnic plurality is attributed to the preventative punishment of the arrogance that manifests itself in buildings of urbane magnificence. From the era of early empire-formations, if not even earlier, the awareness of the simultaneous existence of many peoples already articulated succinctly in ancient times took on a high degree of religio-political virulence. Indeed, the thinkers among early peoples did not fail to recognize the connection between the existence of ethnic groupings and securing them through religious cults. Nonetheless, the ancient world did not yet have ecumenical forums to discuss the rivalry and coexistence of the gods, let alone any ethnological overviews of converging and diverging variants of cults devoted to higher beings – to say nothing of the touristic and academic neutralization of differences between peoples and myths, which did not spread outwards from Europe until the eighteenth century.

In the era of increasingly nervous encounters between peoples in the second and first millennia BC, there were various attempts to come to terms with the irreducible pluralism of ethnicities and their religioid control systems. At a general level, one can divide these attempts into two opposing blocks of neighbourhood policies. On the one side are syncretistic tendencies whose goal is a liberating amalgamation of foreign worlds of peoples and gods. Unifying tendencies of this kind are typical of political theologies such as those attempted in the integration of several ethnicities into an empire and a corresponding higher-level sacred imperial order. In the process, priests of a local cult are retrained as diplomats who can recognize their own gods under the foreign names they bear in other popular cults. The great innovation of this school of thought lies in the discovery that, with interculturally sustainable gods, the inner and the outer converge: what one had taken for a foreign god is revealed, upon closer inspection, as a different guise of one’s own deity. Peoples and cults approach one another as soon as they understand that they have devoted themselves to the same numinous entity under different names. The ecumenically compatible thought model of the one in the many spread among the educated, and the number one became the keyword in educated synthesis. Thus imperial theology, whether Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Hellenistic or Roman, emerged as the field in which the traditional distinction between domestic and foreign policy faded. That translations between the cults were usually supported by the monarchs and priesthoods of trans-ethnic state constructions is a result of their unmistaken interest in synthetic concepts and ecumenical solutions.

A completely different interpretation of the polyethnic and multicultic situation can be observed in the second block. Here the leading actors respond to the perception of polyethnic existence with a resolute hardening and aggrandizement of their own cult traditions. This tendency to withdraw to what is their own culminates in the refusal to let oneself be compared and to participate in translations. Hence the alternative way out of the inevitable ethnic and cultic comparison invites an escape to singularity. Anyone recommending this strategy for self-preservation amid intercultic competition to a people must also offer the prospect of a great contest: because our god is like no other, our people too will be like no other. Whoever commits to the untranslatable god, the most exclusive of divinities, will be rewarded with endless procreative successes and offspring with long memories. Whoever does not join the confessional community may go under amid the multiplicity, leaving neither traces nor memories behind – biblically put, their name will be struck from the Book of Life.

It is surely unnecessary to emphasize that the second of these paths was the option of Israel when it decided against the danger of confusion allegedly posed first by living among the Egyptians, then by the encounters with Near Eastern peoples who followed different cults.11 The often discussed ban on images, which rules out cultic depictions of the Jewish god, initially testifies not so much to the theological depth of a new concept of God as to the ingenious realization that the most reliable way to stay free of the confusing cult competition is the consistent non-depiction of one’s own god. In his nonmanifestation, the leaders of the Jewish people found a remarkable and unique selling point that ensured incomparability through invisibility. Whether this concept was influenced by Egyptian models or not was of no consequence for its success. The resulting theological problem, namely the incompatibility of the image ban with the epiphanic imperative – that is, the obligation of any god with worldly competence to appear – was taken on board by the creators of the Jewish religion.

At this point in our reflections, it requires no great effort to explain why the term ‘monotheism’ does not contribute very much to an understanding of the process: the religious leaders of Israel, from Moses and Joshua to the temple priests of the post-exilic period, were not concerned with theologically charging the numerical word ‘one’ – this would become a concern only much later on for Platonizing speculations about the monad. The covenant (berith) has the form of a non-mixing contract and a nontranslation oath, combined with the highest salvific guarantees. Whoever mixes themselves is eliminated, and whoever translates falls from grace. Thus the ethnogenesis of the Jewish people followed a quite extraordinary autoplastic programme: those belonging to the programme’s people were separated from those who did not belong in a constant process of distinction. The new religion of singularization was anything but a naïve folk cult; it was a considered experiment for an ongoing sorting of members and non-members of the covenant. What that meant in real-life terms is revealed by the warning often heard in the Tanakh, specifically in the prophet Isaiah’s words, that only a few of those involved at the start would be left. Thus early Jewish history is so far unique in telling not of a people with a religion, as is usually the case, but of a religion with a people. Theologians who are aware of this slightly unnerving finding like to describe it with the word ‘chosenness’. By this they mean that it is not enough to have one god or another like all peoples; it is vital to be had by the right god, the unique one." [In the Shadow of Mount Sinai]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:34 pm

Hawkes, David wrote:
In Judaism, Christianity and Islam, to take an image for true reality is the most heinous of all sins. In Greek philosophy, it is the most damaging of all epistemological errors.
It is the error of the prisoners in Plato’s cave and of those who substitute material causes for Aristotle’s telos.
It is also the predominant, even the definitive, characteristic of postmodern society.
It is often remarked that our society is dominated by the ‘economy’, and that this ‘economy’ is dominated by money. The most salient characteristic of money is that it does not exist. Or rather, it exists only as a symbol, an idea in people’s minds, as opposed to a physical object that one could see or touch. Money, in short, is an image that has attained the status of reality: it is an idol.
The Hebraic tradition, which along with Hellenic thought is the primal influence on Western philosophy, ascribes false consciousness to a misconstrual of the relation between matter and spirit. In the Hebrew Bible, the Israelites are distinguished from the Gentiles by the prohibition on material representations of their deity. Due to the attraction which sensual things hold for fallen humanity, such representations will inevitably become fetishes; that is, people will forget that they are merely representations, and idolize them, venerating them as though they were incarnations of the divine.

Yahweh makes this clear when, in the first two commandments, He makes the abandonment of images a precondition of monotheism:

Exodus 20:3. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4. Thou shalt
not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that
is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
under the earth. 5. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve
them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity
of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of
them that hate me.

The ferocity of the aniconic commandment is necessary because, due to our faulty understanding of the relation between signs and things, we will inevitably mistake an image of God for God Himself. Representations of the deity are thus incompatible with Judaic monotheism, which asserts that the source of all meaning is an absolute logos which is necessarily incorporeal. It is therefore fundamentally erroneous to worship an image.
But it is also immoral to do so, for two reasons. First of all, an image is a material object, and thus ethically inferior to the ideal dimension of the divine. Second, an image is the product of human labour – it has been ‘graven’, or manufactured. In worshipping an icon, then, we are really
worshipping the objectified manifestation of our own labour.
This aspect of idolatry was particularly stressed under the Babylonian captivity. The book of Isaiah contains lengthy descriptions of the various kinds of labour which go into manufacturing the Babylonian icons, and the fact that they have been produced by human labour is cited as the clearest possible proof of the absurdity of worshipping images:

Isaiah 41:18. To whom then will ye liken God? Or what likeness will ye
compare unto him? 19. The workman melteth a graven image, and the
goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains. 20. He
that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that
will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a
graven image, that shall not be moved.

Isaiah 46:5. To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and
compare me, that we may be like? 6. They lavish gold out of the bag,
and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a
god: they fall down, yea, they worship.

What is being criticized here is the attempt to establish an equivalence between the ideal and the material through the use of representation. Such an enterprise succeeds only in fetishizing the products of human labour, bestowing upon them a superstitious power and an illegitimate influence
over human life. In the New Testament, the Hebraic proscription of idols blends with Hellenic idealism, issuing in a generalized mistrust of all earthly perception, which will only be corrected by posthumous heavenly revelation.
Thus Paul, writing to the Corinthians:
‘For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as I am known’ (I Cor. 13:12).

The centuries immediately before and after the birth of Christ witnessed a syncretic union between Greek rationalism and Jewish monotheism, and Christianity is its most momentous progeny. Philo Judaeus was one thinker who consciously tried to unite the Greek and Hebrew traditions. In his view, God could be equated with Plato’s Absolute Idea, and as such He could have no effect on the world that He made possible.
The world, rather, was created and governed by God’s ‘reason’, ‘word’, or logos.
Logos is the term used in the Gospel of John to designate what Christianity metaphorically calls the ‘son’ of God.
The notion that this logos could be incarnated in human form indicates a yearning to escape the false consciousness of the flesh, but the earthly fate of Jesus of Nazareth implied that no such liberation was possible in this world.

---Ideology

Modernity: worship of the icon, the word.
Salvation using logos.
New Messiahs offering words as representations, icons, idols to be worshipped.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:39 am

Smith, Adam wrote:
The one may be called ‘value in use’; the other, ‘value in exchange’. The things which have the greatest value in use have frequently little or no value in exchange; on the contrary, those which have the greatest value in exchange have frequently little or no value in use.
Nothing is more valuable than water: but it will purchase scarce any thing; scarce any thing can be had in exchange for it. A diamond, on the contrary, has scarce any value in use; but a very great quantity of other goods may frequently be had in exchange for it.
(31–2)

Value in utility, and value as symbolic representation - insinuated utility.
Vanity, and man trying to associate with rare material, to symbolize his own uniqueness, becomes fashion fetish.
The symbol has a value in and of itself, by existing, and its rarity raises it in estimation.
Man adorns himself with symbols of the rare, raising his own estimation in the eyes of those who accept the symbolism as a real representation.
Symbol becomes the correcting/healing representation, compensating for the wrongs man endures.
Representation acquires a value in itself: Platonic idealism meets Judeo-Christian nihilism.  
The absence of an absolute is corrected by the representation; absence of quality covered with quantities alluding to value that need not be proven.
Accessibility lends itself to mass salvation - money as paradise lost.
Missing thingness fulfilled with a symbol, a word.
God reborn as idol.

Traherne, Thomas wrote:
 I began to enquire what things were most Common: Air, Light, Heaven and Earth, Water, the Sun, Trees, Men and Women, Cities Temples &c.
These I found Common and Obvious to all: Rubies Perls Diamonds Gold and Silver, these I found scarce, and to the most Denied. Then began I to consider and compare the value of them, which I measured by their Serviceableness, and by the Excellencies which would be found in them, should they be taken away. And in Conclusion I saw clearly, that there was a Real Valuableness in all the Common things; in the Scarce, a feigned.
(I, 142)
 

Pretending value through association is herd psychology entering the age of abstractions, where the noumenon detached from phenomenon, can be freed to take any form.
Past/Nature covered in jewels and garments, adopted identity.

Hawkes, david wrote:
Smith, Adam wrote:
But value is not commonly estimated by labour, because labour is difficult to measure, and commodities are more frequently exchanged for other commodities, especially money, which is therefore most frequently used in estimating value.
(34–5)

The illusion that money literally isvalue thus quickly takes hold among the populace. This is a false, or ideological, consciousness brought about by empiricist habits of thought:

Smith, Adam wrote:
The greater part of the people too understand better what is meant by a quantity of a particular commodity, than by a quantity of labour. The one is a plain palpable object; the other an abstract notion, which, though it can be made sufficiently intelligible, is not altogether so natural and obvious.
(35)

Smith thus sees a systematic disjunction between appearance and reality as an inevitable consequence of a market economy. ‘Labour’, he repeatedly stresses, ‘is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their nominal price only’ (36–7).
According to this criterion, it would seem that in our society the nominal has replaced the real. This is what postmodernists mean when they claim to be living in a ‘hyper-reality’.

Once the word "value" has been ripped form its association with utility, converted to symbol representing nominal abstractions, the next step of taking it a step further, converting ti to an ontology in itself, is almost inevitable.
The noumenon alludes to the phenomenon, but taken literally it IS the phenomenon, but now malleable, easily manipulated by the human mind, by thinking....altering it noetically, shifting perspectives of it.
The phenomenon itself is not so easily altered, or manipulated.
An activity requiring a commitment, and a cost (labour/work), with uncertain rewards is expected, whereas the representation becomes a matter of attitude and taste.
Money acquires the right to believe in your own fabrications, and only abide by the market system that ensures you this "right".
Money as the perfect representation of value - the idea(l) made tangible.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:33 pm

FC wrote:
This is why Joker pretended to be a girl in the first place. But we are not like mr reasonable: sillicones, even high end, dont please us. There is a minumun natural waist-cheekrate, and the practice of selfvaluing for new students consists of wearing strictly three items of clothing; purple high heeled sandals, a silver chain (to be purchased by them) around the waist, and a plume of fox hair stuck by means of a rubber plug between the buttox. The chain is connected to a large chandelier in our Third Ballroom and their task for the first year is to crawl in circles on hands and knees while making chipmunk noises.

It is very rigorous, Spartan one might say.

As we speak there is a line of applicants in said dressscode, holding their chains in their mouths as prescribed, stretching beyond the horizon. In two hours the doors of the temple will open and todays selection process will begin. But first, breakfast.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I think Fixed is going to fall in love and beg for a good flogging from Is_Yde_Opn ; )

Maybe he would beg to do 'her' dirty laundry and wipe 'her' a--- with his tongue, like a nice li'l biaaatch-girl…  One could already hear moaning sounds in the first minute of his recent video…

Like a wounded animal…

maybe from his wee_O being torn Yde_Opn?

hmmm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:32 am

Hawkes, David wrote:
The synchronic approach reveals that words acquire meaning, not through any intrinsic correspondence with the objects they represent,  but through their place within the linguistic structure.
Saussure thus suggests that representation is autonomous and that, in fact, signs produce the objects they designate. He finds that this ‘arbitrary nature of the sign’ pertains in every society:

Saussure wrote:
any means of expression accepted in a society rests in principle upon a
collective habit, or on convention, which comes to the same thing.
Signs of politeness, for instance, although often endowed with a certain
natural expressiveness (prostrating oneself nine times on the ground is
the way to greet an emperor in China) are none the less fixed by rule. It
is this rule which renders them obligatory, not their intrinsic value.
(ibid.)

When value is ripped from the object as it relates to an intent, it acquires a habitual value, similar to the word/symbol money.
It is that money, the currency/nomisma has been habitually accepted as valuable that it retains its value.
A collective, silent, agreement - trust.

Volosinov wrote:
The idea of the conventionality, the arbitrariness, of language is  a typical one for rationalism as a whole. . . . What interests the mathematically minded rationalists is not the relationship of the sign to the actual reality it reflects or to the individual who is its originator, but the relationship of sign to sign within a closed system already accepted and authorized. In other words, they are interested only in the inner logic of the system of signs itself, taken, as in algebra, completely independently of the meanings that give signs their content.
(2)
---Ideology

Logic becomes a measure of how the self-referential system abides by its original presuppositions, taken as self-evident.
The symbol, one{1} negated by the symbol nil{0}, is the first abstraction in the binary system, corresponding to the neurological on/off process.
It becomes part of a self-referential code/language, remaining loyal to its first resumptions - later, it become a replacement of the phenomenon with value in itself, an ontology of its own: ONE as GOD...God as ONE...
and if one symbol can be so powerfully seductive then why not other words/symbols: LOVE/GOD...VALUE as ONTOLOGY as GOD.
Value-selfing, or Value as Creator.
First came the word, and God with a million names - any word can be made God...with the only criterion that it seduce, can be popular...and so only "positive" words find success and become religion...but first you must become a cult.
A cult needs an IDOL...and if not Jesus, then why not Nietzsche the Idol-breaker?
Irony of ironies.
Ollie as Saul.
JJ as Jesus...JJJ.
Pezer one of the apostles.  

Is there not a numerologically, neurotically, obsessed douche-bag, claiming to have the solution to everything, part of the clan of hooded "philosophers"?
Not much distance between declaring the symbol of a number, and its combination, as more than representational, but as possession an intrinsic value, to that of claiming a word, any word, as having instinctive value.
Same psychosis at work.
In a desperate attempt to find power in some hidden secret, out there, the mind grasps upon its own fabrications, looking for pattern in how these relate to each other, rather than patterns and how those relate, outside the mind.
The numerologist is obsessed with its closed system of numerical symbols, and the cAnus obsessed with relationships and how subjectivity relate to each other - both excluding the world, and how the symbols refer to it.
A Messiah appears to gather them all, and direct them - a shaman teacher...with a "positive" word as his banner.
"Good tidings, brothers and ...brothers"...no converted sisters yet, the power of the word untested still - women do not commit so easily: they are more skeptical and paranoid, more cynically pragmatic.
Power is promised, value, great things, and the boys come running from far and wide...hoping this will lead to their own ascent; hoping they can belong to a strong pride/tribe/pack/clique, that will dominate all others.    

To synthesize Nietzsche and the Jew God, almost Hellenized with Jesus, the word "power" has to be converted to another, more Christian word....
No "love" would be too obvious...something fresh and new...."value" let's say.
The verb-noun of defeat/victory, good/bad, superior/inferiority.
Let's declare it existing, having an ontology of its own, and not as metaphorical, symbolizing existence.  

Hawkes, David wrote:
‘Primitive’ societies, in other words, have not succumbed to the fatal divorce of subject and object which constitutes the central problem for Western philosophy. Of course, for Hegel and Marx this split is itself illusory, and testifies to a mode of fetishism which is no less superstitious than the animistic world-view.
While capitalism objectifies the subject, animism subjectifies the object. The result is a strange convergence between ostensibly distinct modes of thought, so that animistic beliefs can be used to make sense of the ideological effects produced by market capitalism.

---Ideology

Returning to animism deals with capitalism's objectification of the subjective.
Nihilists on the level of cAnus annul it all, attempting a marriage between Judeo-Christian morality and Marxist materialism.

To clean this cultural garbage, pilnig up until we lose sight of the origin of words and what they referred to, we must go back to the beginning and re-connect each word, separately, before we combine them into complex structures, to the real.
Detach the noumenon from its Modern reference point to other noumena, and complex unities of abstractions with no reference to anything outside the brain, and then re-attach the noumenon/abstraction to the phenomenon.

What will remain as pure abstraction, idea, can now find reference to that which has been connected - returned back to its original function, returning to its original value.
If we do not do this, then charlatans like JJ will continue to seduce weak, naive, minds, like Pezer, and Ollie, exploiting an innate need, represented as power, or love, or value.


Hawkes, David wrote:
There is really nothing new in this mode of ideological indoctrination:
Marx discusses a similar use of representation in The Eighteenth Brumaire, as we saw in Chapter 4. However, it may well be that the development  of technology, the extent of mass communications, and the increased research into marketing and advertising techniques, have established this mythical use of representation on a firmer basis today than ever before.

Representation becomes indistinguishable from reality to the degree that the commodity form obscures the true nature of things. One way of defining ‘the postmodern condition’ is as the state of mind which results from the final triumph of the commodity, the ultimate victory of exchange-value, and thus the elevation of representation over reality.

---Ideology

This last quote exposes JJ and his clan of dimwit hoodie philosophers, exchanging D&D fantasy role-playing messages, the best.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:02 pm

Through an intended series of fixed arithmetic operations equating selectively randomized variables of measurement I was able to approximately calculate the exact same time of a different time zone.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:04 pm

Hrodeberto wrote:
Through an intended series of fixed arithmetic operations equating selectively randomized variables of measurement I was able to approximately calculate the exact same time of a different time zone.

Well then, there's your "value".


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