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Zoot Allures



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:17 pm

The last two posts were brilliant. Berto's completely unrelated random comment out of nowhere about calcating time zones, then satyr's snapping disgruntfully "well then there's your value".

That is how it's done, folks. Forum satire at its best. This is the future of forum philosophy.

Hrodeberto's avatar. Superb.
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Hrodeberto



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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:22 pm

Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:27 pm

I saw numerology and got all excitirical, Zooty Cooty. I was all: "mathematical."

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:41 pm

Greece, and what is happening there, at this very minute, is the prefect example of how Marxist liars, hypocrites, and charlatans, like JJ, exploit naive Nihilists, who after decades of lying and thieving, now think they are entitled, convinced that their idiocy deserves special consideration.
Voting in liars, for 30 years, and living the "good life" on borrowed money, they now project the blame on those THEY voted in, because they told them what they wanted to hear, and allowed them to continue living off debt...because, in their minds, everyone except them, are idiots.
See...this is choseness.
Whomever told them the truth, over those 30 years, they ridiculed, and did not vote into office.
Those who told them what they wanted to hear, became their heroes.

Know what JJ said about SYRIZA when it was first elected?
That it would sweep in a new wind.
That these crypto-Marxists, not unlike his crypto-Judaism, would bring in a revival in Europe.
This is the kind of idiot we are dealing with.

A half-wit, who in his forties, makes vids of his martial arts, striking at air, and exhaling with violence...like the words he uses...all hot air.
Who does he attract?
Naive, effete, desperate, men-children, looking for a father figure, power, masculinity, a lost heritage.
Who does he fuck?
Do the...math.

I urge you to watch all his "philosophy" vids.
It's a class on neurosis, and the effects of Modernity; of Nihilism using words, void of content, full of promises, emotion, passion - subjectivity grasping on symbols/words, to find salvation.
Feeling pride in humility, power in submission.
How many "new" ways will they devise to harmonize Hellenism, as the height of paganism, with Judaism, through Christian/Islam?

They've made Nietzsche into their idol of decay, like they once made Jesus the symbol of the reverse of what he preached.

He sent Pezer, thinking Igor was easy, like one would a dog, to seduce Lyssa away from the undeserving one, and then called him back, like a pet,, when Pezer was getting his arse kicked, and JJ feared he would lose him to another master.
How many errors in judgment can you make before you begin questioning the value of your thinking?
How many defeats can you redefine as victories?
How much stupidity can you convince others was your genius?

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:02 pm

Fixed - my slave4ever&ever wrote:
Specially for the slow Lizzie: a horse has 4 legs, not everything with 4 legs is a horse.

It is simply true that latent homosexuals are terrified of drugs. Not everyone who is terrified of drugs is a latent homosexual.
Still, being terrified of drugs, weed in particular, or adamantly against them, is to me a sure sign of a psyche that is terrified of itself.

Take me as a shaman. Avoid me.

-

Hmmmm... Lyzzie... I don't see any logic there.

-

Lyssa, I forgot I flushed you.
My only possible response to you at this point is sharing stomach acids, but even these are too good for you. I've never seen such pure resentment, truly.

It was an interesting biological experiment. Philosophy is after all a matter of biology.  

Our correspondence is closed.

-




Li'l Erik thought some random girl was me because her name was spelt Lisa. He so wanted her to be me, he decided I was. Looks like Fixed almost begs and insists that I officially announce him my next slave boy. So be it, if that's how hard you want it, benighted knight…

Maybe from now on whoever critiques or even just questions Fixed - my slave4ever&ever on his opinions using dots and dashes will be Lyssa, because that is his self-valuing in.. sanity.
Or maybe from now on, Fixed can continue being an escapist, dismissing anybody, simply claiming them to be Lyssa.

Personally, I couldn't care to denounce this slave's entertainment and his circuss act of how well he can "see through the veil", but just so someone else's discussions and interactions on that asylum ILP aren't thwarted, for the record, I am Not "Is_Yde_opN".

As for my being poor and wretched and other accu..zzzzz..ations, that's how Xts. denounced the non-believers of their faith...
Their Value-Xt. !

That's right. VXt.

Value-Xtians like Fixed and his ilk speak of Satyr and I being dirt, filth, exploding toilets, but these are your typical Flies_Yde_opN.

lol

Flies in the market-place…

Nietzsche wrote:
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"Where solitude endeth, there beginneth the market-place; and where the market-place beginneth, there beginneth also the noise of the great actors, and the buzzing of the poison-flies.

In the world even the best things are worthless without those who represent them: those representers, the people call great men.
Little, do the people understand what is great—that is to say, the creating agency. But they have a taste for all representers and actors of great things.

Around the devisers of new values revolveth the world:—invisibly it revolveth. But around the actors revolve the people and the glory: such is the course of things.
Spirit, hath the actor, but little conscience of the spirit. He believeth always in that wherewith he maketh believe most strongly—in himself!

Tomorrow he hath a new belief, and the day after, one still newer. Sharp perceptions hath he, like the people, and changeable humours.
To upset—that meaneth with him to prove. To drive mad—that meaneth with him to convince. And blood is counted by him as the best of all arguments.
A truth which only glideth into fine ears, he calleth falsehood and trumpery. Verily, he believeth only in gods that make a great noise in the world!
Full of clattering buffoons is the market-place,—and the people glory in their great men! These are for them the masters of the hour." [TSZ, Flies]


VXts., the masters and the alpha-philosophers of the hour…

Embarassed


Fixed, you lost respect for me?!  lol!
I was not the one with blushing with shame and cowardice unable to answer which drug-thug enlarged consciousness for all humanity…and then disguise my inability to not answer with further obfuscations through every other topic, false smearings and dumb ass charades, all except the most pertinent: The Missing Ontology, the missing unicorn Fixed

Pezer can continue waiting for verbs, when to Act honourably against your false lie easily falls on his deaf ear and passes him by and he can also continue doing more imp. things like model around and showcase closed-eyes trance-poses to drums as if he attained nirvana…,,, but you Fixed, tell me what you know of Honour among Thieves?
Bribing me with religious solutions, a Faith, a theology, a sweet Shorbot like some Mullah!! in stead of something truly worthy of this crisis and this pressure, is as decrepit as sticking a chewing gum to close a hole, a wee-O !
Its too dishonourable even for a thief like you…
You might as well tell me Allahu Akbar and to value Xt. That's how backwards you are.

But wait…, you just did, no?!

Crown yourself alpha, dress up retards in false dignity clothes, play Rogers and Roger that.. and bandits, make movies, let BTL productions present Jack and Ass, sell books, sell soft drinks, spread V.-Xt, be a good missionary, tell people how they should be and behave for their own benefit and covertly dub "I value for you" as "self-valuing", spin more lies with spinoza, do whatever, I dont care…,, just reserve enough to know those who want more than easy consolations that hurt their pride are indeed poor, and very much like their poverty. Alas, all you see is glitter.

Stay decrepit Hag...gard.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:27 am

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Fixed cant decide if blacks raise the value of Xt. [via cRap music] more, or Xt. raises the value of blacks [via healing rapturous pastors]…  ha….

He is utterly lost, but he will find his way through self-christening, I mean christ-valuing, I mean self-valuing…


The dizziness that urban shamanism induces is quite exemplary.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:00 am

Raising one's self-value can take the route of finding those who you consider beneath you, but will not admit it not even to yourself, and then flatter them, raising their esteem in those who are listening, and in yourself, so as to raise self indirectly.
A similar practice is applied when flattering our friends, who like us.
By flattering them we indirectly affirm their judgment of us.

On a side matter...I never thought you would dare use that avatar again.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Some news for Fixed:

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:03 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Some news for Fixed:
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Ha!!!
That's so.....sad, that's what it is, tragic.
Such a valuable artist, a fine Negro intellect, falling on hard times?
I will send the amount I place on his overall value.....which is.....ummmm let's see, times 2, carry the 4, divide by 3.....there it is 0.
The satanic place-holder for the self-evident, self-valuing...one.

We are all fractions of this oneness.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:43 am

You have to read every singe tweet [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], esp. the fur part, ha

you get the idea why its him and not somebody else, so perfect for VXt.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:48 am

It's amazing how culture, the meme, works its way to the surface... like a latent gene, triggered by some environmental condition.
This is a typical American psychosis, spreading across the globe of “culture of no culture”. Negroes, being the most base, child-like, variant are the ones who display it openly, innocently.
It consists of self-aggrandizement, trash-talk, declarative statements, proclamations of victory, of enduring, of surviving.
The only thing Negroes can produce, these days, are me-me, bling-bling, and crying out "we shall overcome" lamentations; trinkets and flashy clothing, cars, impressive vocabulary and unique vernacular, delivered in the right tone of voice, overcompensating for a clear and distinct absence of substance, of quality, and qualities.
The absence of past, of inheritance, cleansed, and baptized, in the melting-pot of American-style "individualism"; the abolition of naturally based identities, "liberates" the mind to seek self in the immediate, the shallow, the animalistic, the primal, the consumer world of fashion trends.
Males from other races are seduced by this victim-based salve pride – defeat converted to a de facto victory.
Everything is inverted, words have definitions and no meaning – they can be placed in any order, as long as they remain aesthetically pleasing, experienced emotionally, stay true to the beat, of the heart.
Feeling good, being made to feel good, is the only goal, it is being good – everything and everyone judged by this standard.

Negroes are so proud that American "culture" is dominated by their erotic jungle-beats, their word-associations, and sampling, recycled, repackaged libidinal ecstasies raising the body’s temperature to a fever pitch.
The ladies love them for it.
Now white men with no fathers, no family, no children, no solid sense of self, having faced some kind of traumatic personal experience, having tasted the harshness of existence on their own, are falling into the same patterns.
American “exceptionalism” harmonizing with Jewish "choseness" – a feeling of destiny, fate determined by some mysterious secret, tapped into and funnelled as personal expression, a revelry chanted in church with spasmodic rhythms – as if it were all predestined, written in some cosmic ledger with magical lettering; something extraordinary is occurring and the individual is the personification of the divine – through him god speaks, he is channeling power.
Don't they always thank Jesus from the podium of their communal acknowledgements?
Proud to be god’s minion, to be blessed with magnitude, to belong to the “higher” and remain humbly-arrogant in its embrace.

Those who "talk to the dead" and re-experience past lives, cannot help but be descendants of kings, great men and women in past lives, because they are less than adequate in the present one.
The needy-one must find in himself importance, and if he cannot he will fabricate it, using words – cRap is a construction of image with no reasoning, no justification... pure subjective revelation:
I am what I declare myself to be, I am what I think of myself as being. I am my own master. I am God!” Delivered with an anger that dares you to respond.
So says the slave to himself, while his inner voice is muted.
A king of kings, representing his own aristocracy; he is the exceptional all is measured by. Each man and woman a world of its own – subjectivity being the personal relationship with the absolute, where no evidence is needed – only a testament of faith.
All rightful heirs of largeness, all children of immensity, because their true origins are lost in time, or too small, too tiny to be heard in the noise, too embarrassing to impress the masses in these days of hyper-reality.

The only way to make it "big" in this world is to think big, or go home.
Be as impressive, as gigantic, as over-the-top awesome as possible; be marketable, useful to as many as possible, because identity is now a human reflection, where world means world of man, and reality means society, and philosophy means politics, and value means utility.
Convince others and you are that which they believe you to be – the cosmos is fooled, death is escaped.
All ambitions go through mass appeal – peddling yourself to as many potential shoppers as possible, for as high a price as possible; a game of erotic display and feminine seduction – the whore must be purchased at the going price of a lady.
The secret of success is to expand your market base.
Appearance is superficial, irrelevant, it's all about the look.
Make them look, twice, one to notice and the second to appreciate.

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PostSubject: x Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:34 pm

Fixed wrote:
Now youre hooked on my threads like Lyssa was

Never seen a prey feel so proud of being the target of a sharp-shooter… hilarious

love. 15. 30. 40. game. set. match. submission. Lyssa.  Can you remember that, kitten?

Dearest wrote:
And they are a bit similar to Lys, unthat they think I am a lretty who has no real substance

Nothing better than words to put in my mouth? how very sad… ;p
If anything, I never said you were substance-less dearest; rather, you are too substance-fuooll...

And they called him Mr.Co-Cain, Mr.citizen Cain
although, you act more like a Heroin

Fixed wrote:
I consider SMs posts to be very intrusive, misguided, banal and they cause me nausea. I wish for her to stop addressing me as if she is a standard of whats decent or wholesome. Same with Lys and Satyr.

Its good to see the lessons I gave you are showing results. Nice and receptive. Good girl Fixed. Like when I educated your attempted intrusion with the piano example, on how duplicitous it is to value on behalf For another, in the deceptive pretext of raising another to 'their' self-value…

Now you know better, than to go around telling people who to f--- and where to be and a, b, see?

Now if Fixed wants to give my education to him, to others as if it were his own, I have no issues with credits. You can have it all.

Fixed wrote:
Lyssa came from a broken home, a dominant, theatrical father who never made the slightest bit of sense to her, but who thrilled her.

She was intimate with her mother, girls amongst each other. She has sisters, no brothers.

Lots of business with animals and significant objects. No significant lovers - her older sister showed her how horrible that game is. What pieces of shit men are, except daddy.
Now she found a way to reconcile daddy and shit-men. To have the upper hand over her sisters, all is fair.

Thats a funny way of asking me to do your reading…

Your birth time is between 10am to 12 pm. hmm.

Quote :
It will be no religion, as it it is cruel, it takes away all certainty. This is why Constant hates it, I assume - it is certainly what Lyssa cant except. The human entity is a condition of consistent valuing over a long period of time which develops in the way we understand as Evolution.

Your cock-tale, your narrative, your intoxication. Suit yourself, like you did when you were "certain" that Is_Yde_OpN was I…  
Your sagi sags, sauerkraut.. keep it taut!

One more time. You have no way of showing how an entity has been consistently "valuing" itself without already presuming a priori in a self-referential loop, that to simply be is already a value. In which case, there is nothing to determine something has indeed evolved when the presumption has already been put in place that be…ing is already valuable…   See?  This is what makes it so religious. The Certainty YOU import and Fix into place a priori, Fixed.

That kind of certainty is the religious impulse that says "all is Already valuable", "all is Already precious"…
The universe is indifferent. The cosmos is man-made. N. modelled his ER as a western form of Buddhism, seeing in it, the max. ontology one could say to describe the world.
I do not hold subjectivity as a false path and neither did N.; but it is the 'concept' of the Self which makes the subjective process a possibly narcissistic or solipsistic one. Atomizing the self as a self-preserving closed system in terms of conatal coherence, is inevitably going to lead to a narcissistic and hedonistic world view. It is not the subjective route, but the conception of self that is at fault here.

V-Xt. deflates any selective pressure by making any be…ing valuable. By this piece of Plotinian religiosity, any creep just by maintaining self-coherency becomes a victor.

How can such all-levelling be any Niezschean project? Spinoza is a dead-end and a failed solution; dont look back. Long back farther.


Andddd, shouldn't you be looking into how you got owned by some Hallelulah pastor before making videos declaring who you own? Just saying...

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Value Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:00 am

Was going to post this....but I was perma-banned...
pale
Oh well...
Quote :
How to reinvent Judeo-Christian/Islamic Nihilism, and resell it to a Modern, cynical infantile crowd = preaching to the choir, already primed after centuries of the same imagery, and linguistic detachments.

1- Take a word, a positive one, like "love", or "pleasure", or "value".
Mystify it by keeping it vague, and outside space/time - detached.
Love = creation....value-selfing, love-selfing, self-loving.
The word, referring to a sensation, is placed before creation, outside space/time ([size=85]from it space-time emerges[/size]) - before self, when you would normally place it after, as expression of organism - self/ego.

Love as creating force.
Love-Selfing, self-loving = christian ontology
Pleasure as defining word.
Self-pleasing, pleasuring-self... masturbation.

Consider the words - value - positive, it can be mystified, or simply mean "type" which exposes its simplicity - ον...Greek for Being...λογος - logos = word, to speak, reason.
Value as the being of word.
The word, as symbol, detached from world as process, has being as language. Word exists in language.
But it can now be returned to its utility as representation, and then back to word symbol referring to itself.
Sometimes referring to patterns, the apparent ([size=85]exoteric[/size]), then back to referring to self ([size=85]esoteric[/size]) - it is everything and nothing.
Self determines it.
Perspectivism - a new way of defending the prominence of subjectivity.

God as the singular expressed in multiplicity - all is one, one is all.
In all god, in all value.
God ontology - Being Being in/through word/language.
God of many names....pleasure, love, kindness, value.
Secularization means abandoning the restrictive word "God" - Modernizing Nihilism, for a new, more cynical, generation.
All have value, meaning do, in them. God/Value/love, expressed through them - using words/language.
Subjectivity as God.

2- Accept a secularized understanding, Nihilism minus the anthropomorphous image, the God.
Now get rid of "sin", the challenge, anything that excludes, caused pain, anxiety....the last excluding concept.
All are saved, all have value, all are loved, in and of themselves.
Each within his own perspective. Each in self, with self...no external standard to live-up to, like a connection to phenomena, to world.
No proof, just declaring authority - I am...valuable, I am loved, I am God.
The "positive" word preferential, stirring emotion, connected to esoteric needs, reasons, reasoning.

3- Confuse/Convolute the word, so that it can mean anything to anyone, or anything at any time.
It is rational, empirical, and mystical, spiritual; it is all and nothing.
If you "get it", your "heart open" then you understand - let Jesus into your heart and then the Christian bullshyte will make sense.
If you do not, you will be accused of not "getting it".
For Christians any critique is based on not understanding Scripture, on not letting God into your heart - it is complex for an infidel, and very easy for a true-believer.
It is a feeling, a sensation - uncanny genius.
For Muslims only the believer has a soul, a heart, value.
For the Jew only their clan has been chosen.

4- Be universal, all-inclusive, no single understanding, if it is accepting, is wrong... all are right, in their own way - self-valuing.
If you can survive, you are valuable....ergo a pedophile is self-valuing when his pedophilia survives.
A Down Syndrom child, if it survives, is valuable.
Bacteria surviving a nuclear war are more valuable than humans who will not.
Therefore, less sophistication is a value, if you market it, if you manage to sell it to others - infectiousness.
Viral tenacity is valuable, therefore popularity is a measure of value.
Christians point to their own dogma's popularity as proof that it is "true".

5- Not defining the word conventionally means it is malleable.
Disconnecting the symbolism from the noetic connections to phenomena, eludes detection.
The symbol, triggering esoteric forces, feelings memories, sensations, desires, is enough.
To connect it to a noumenon, that then refers to a phenomenon, would limit its appeal, its force, its magic.
You can use it to describe crypto-Christianity, and then use it to describe process ontology.
The word is magical, it can mean anything, as the meaning is dependent on the self...self-valuing.
It can mean dynamic energy, pattern, Will, it can mean love, pleasure, God... creativity is an expression of self-valuing.
All definitions acceptable if they begin with accepting value as the starting premise.
First there was the word and the word was... love?
No, God?
No... now it is "value".
Plausible deniability ensured... when value-selfing becomes embarrassing, deny it...when coming across another superior perspective, appropriate it, and claim that is what VO is: Christianize Nietzsche, Jewify Paganism, because it is whatever the self values, and what gives value to the self.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:25 pm

No word has meaning in and of itself.
It refers to something outside the mind, where it it exists as a neurological pattern.
It may refer to a book of myths expressing a memetic ideal, a book of definitions to maintain limits that make communication possible; it may symbolize a noumenon/abstraction, which may refer to an external phenomenon, the apparent/present, or to a phenomenon such as a feeling/emotion, an internal sensation, which, in turn, is the product of an external phenomenon; it may symbolize a noumenon/abstraction which in turn refers to a noumenon/abstraction in another mnid, or in a text, or some other art form.

In the case of the word/symbol/metaphor "value", it has no innate value, ironically, but refers to a value in relation to a goal, an objective, an idea(l) - it indicates motive: movement towards, an ambition.
the word value has no meaning outside of this relationship.

If, on the other hand, the word "value" is used as a metaphor, a substitute for some other word, such as "god", "love", "substance", "type", "pattern", then it is representational, twice removed from the represented.
It transfers the representation to itself.
If it is then taken literally, then it is either confusing, or purposefully manipulating, using this transference.

On-Line Etymology wrote:
val·ue
Origin

Middle English: from Old French, feminine past participle of valoir ‘be worth,’ from Latin valere .

The dictionary provides limits, or the starting connection. Any metaphorical usage ought to maintain this starting contact with the original relationship of word with phenomenon, because if it does not then it risks confusing the issue either purposefully, or accidentally.
To "value" is a relationship of observer, observed, in relation to objective - triangulation.
This indicates intent, without ensuring it.
An organism evaluates other-ness in relation to its primary intent of self-preservation, or its secondary intent of self-replication - this evaluation may be intuitive, programmed genetically, and need not be lucid: it values other, estimating its "worth", in relation to its needs, its desires.
In more complex/sophisticated organisms this evaluation is in relation to the organism's projected idea(l)s that may contradict self-preservation, and self-replication, but nevertheless intend some sort of identification with the outcome, the objective.
In this case the organism identifies, self, with this intended goal.

If the word "value" is used in lieu of another, more appropriate term, as a metaphor, to indicate a vibration, energy, pattern, a substance, a God, then it is misused and ought not to be taken literally, but metaphorically.

On-Line Etymology wrote:
judge
Origin

Middle English: from Old French juge (noun), juger (verb), from Latin judex, judic-, from jus ‘law’ + dicere ‘to say.’

To speak of a law, a pattern, to evaluate, other, or idea(l)s: noumena.
One evaluates, ascribes value, by juxtaposing - self with other, other with other, self and/or other with intent/objective/ideal.

How does one evaluate?
Using outcome. Not theory, not intent, but outcome - this is the most obvious way and so the best way.
If this way is impossible, or the mind wishes to avoid the risks, then the secondary, less certain, method is to compare the potential objective (outcome) with alternate penitential outcomes - intended/possible benefit, versus possible costs.
To be more precise, and objective, eliminating corrupting factors ,such as emotions, prejudices, and so on, one can use precedent; judging/'evaluating cost/benefits to other, when the intent is the same.
If this is impossible, or if an additional supportive justification is required, then the third options is to evaluate the noumenon/abstraction's connections to the world, the phenomenal (inter)activity, the presence (objective): quantity of reference pints, meaning quality of judgment/evaluation: perspective, subjectivity.

Again, theoretical, is inferior to pragmatic application, and outcome, consequences of cost/benefit to the judging/evaluating, organism.
A further factor is sheltering...the protective, intervening force of parent, other, institution, mitigating between outcome and cost/benefit to organism.
Here the motive of the intervening factor should be evaluated/judged, so as to determine the extent and direction of its intervening effect upon the organism.
As an example I offer domestication as the consequence of such an intervention, where the motive is the human need for a productive and malleable organism.

Other examples include, feminization, institutionalization, socialization, education, training, Americanization, Nihilism, Marxism, Abrahamism....politics in general.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:45 pm

What is fundamental to life, and for this reason the central topic of philosophy, is not these words games, or strategies to disseminate excess equally, but when it comes to real costs/befits, when austerity forces severity, and cynicism no longer applies, then things becomes a matter of life and death. Then children debating how to equalize resource dissemination, has the gravitas of sacrifice, and risk.
Then morons like the turd calling itself Jacob, no longer sell.
There is no debate, no word-games, to romantic idealism, no spiritual lingo, to create a trend, and help imbeciles deal with a life they've shown no proof that they deserve.

All this is a product of excess. Resource abundance, where generosity is another word, and so is value, and love.
It's why characters like Jesus and Socrates have such an impact amongst the well-fed, protected, reassured, spoiled, pampered masses of idiots.
All words are theoretical. There is no real-life understanding attached to them.
It's all about impressing your fellow human, and getting laid...not life and death.
It's all political, fantasy, how does one seduce, make an impact, raise one's social status.

The cost to lying is minimal----reputation at most.
What's there to debate with such creatures?

They exist in a world detached from reality - a human, man-made world, where cost/benefit means sexual gratification, karma, fame and fortune, appreciation, access to resources, including females.
There is a difference in contexts.
The word "philosophy" changes meaning.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:02 pm

Because, in theory, all is worth contemplating, since it has no cost.
all can be humored, all can be give then "benefit of the doubt"...all is plausible, in mind protected from consequences, - where cost is insignificant - all is possible,, and so why not choose according to taste, pleasure potential, self-flattering value possibility?
Then, it's all a game, a matter of coming up with the moist fun, entertaining, all-inclusive, scenario.

Why would you choose otherwise, if you were not "evil" and "sick"; someone who just hated mass participation, happiness, humanity?
Why not choose according to whim, creativity, how pleasing the game is?
There's no long term cost...it's all fun and games...how to make all happy; how you can be the most popular.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:27 pm

Because existence is experienced through the being of a being, the past is nothing but a reference that does more to limit than to expand the possibilities of the being.

When the being struggles out of the grip of his contextual past, he is left with "nothingness" which is a space in which he can design his own ways of being that work to make way for desired possibilities.

That's my puny understanding of how to use ontology but it somehow fucking works.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:04 pm

What is sad is to wake up to the realization that the idea you use to declare yourself a "genius", a "teacher" is no more than a new way of saying what has been already said by another.
When you become aware of this, you try to reinvent it as something mystical, give it meanings you cannot defend, imply something you then must back down from, so as to not look foolish or insane.
It's the problem of writing out a check your ass can't clover.
The number might be impressive, may be written out to shock, to impress, but in the end it accomplishes the opposite when it is time to pay the piper.

And this is why giving him a few parting kicks in the butt, is so fun.
Sure, the man-child will recuperate, and his little friends will raise him up on their shoulders and cheer, and all of it will be infantile and adorable, but all children';s games also have a sense of sadness, nostalgia, about them, and also of danger, when you realize the toys they are using are loaded, and someone might get hurt when one of the plastic bullets finds an eye.

So, here's a raised glass of appreciation to a man-child unintentionally funny.
God bless you boy.
All towns need a fool.

VO's "ontology" is simple - it has been done.
The buffoon takes what has already been stated and then changes the words, declaring himself a "rightful heir", and a "teacher".
Then he injects mysticism, to hide the plagiarism - New Age bullshyte, a selective mix of Judeo-Christian/Islamic positive nihilism.
A hypocrite, a liar...another wannabe Messiah appealing to the lost men-children, and brain-dead imbeciles that are found in abundance in our Modern world.

When the ontology is exposed as plagiarism he runs into the vagueness of his spiritualism, and when the spiritualism is exposed as pure Judeo-Christian/Islamic positive Nihilism, adopting different language/metaphors, he flees back to the ontology.... and back and forth...always misunderstood, always accusing the other, for his weakness.

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:53 am

Weakness itself is a conversation that substitutes taking on responsibility for one's experience of self.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:47 pm

Clarifying VOt for Slaughtz who I think has misunderstood it, or atleast my critique of it.

My critique of VOt does Not stem from a Rationalist's view-point, which takes survivalism as prime base and then considers common sense in the reductive frame of black/white scenarios as criterion of health. The Dionysian aesthetic is not concerned with such.


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To Freud and Nietzsche, consciousness is only a thin film that emerges as a result of the war of drives going on in the unconscious. Consciousness develops as a by-product rising to get a better perspective of the phenomenal world in order to organize the chaotic drives at bottom into a 'self', a 'unity'.

This is similar to the picture of the Nordo-Germanic tree of life, where you have the realm of all the subterranean forces at the bottom, the human world in the middle, and the divine realm of fatal forces on top:

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As much as there are entropic forces, there is also a resistive impulse of galactic forces which exceptionally stabilized into life-sustaining atmospheric gases and the sun and the moon and oceans and metals with magnetic fields and so forth..., finally foaming into blood and organs and organ-memories, etc.
Reality is a becoming [flux] with temporal rates of persistence [flow] according to the quantum of force it is.

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Just as there is an ultra-violet and infra-red range of radiations falling above and below the range of our spectrum of perception that we adapted to,, there are both sub-terranean and super-phenomenal forces - which makes up phenomena. Not just the terrestrial human range, but forces operating at other ranges, which pressure us to ex-press them out as patterns, as a presence.

Consciousness is a discriminate reaction to these pressures and is a product of it.
It is the first 'fabrication'.
The man who climbs away from all the clamor of battle to a tower has a better perspective and ad-vantage.
There is a point during the tumult of forces, where part of the forces thus separate out like a thin fabric or film of tranquility oblivious to all the clamor below in order to secure clear vantage points.

Forces of attraction and repulsion dissolving alliances and forming alliances in multiple 'directions', compromising, dominating, subordinating, - playing out a whole matrix of (dis)arrangements and configurations to gradually integrate into a sense-consciousness receiving and providing signals from the phenomenal world… and thus with increasing efficiency to A self-integrity, a core-self.

The clamor of the war of the drives, of which we know nothing of, and can only intuit when consciousness begins to increasingly reflect upon itself - self-consciousness, is why geniuses eventually go mad, when the threshold of their 'fabrication' comes undone, tears apart, and why consciousness must sometimes be kept from knowing itself too soon and too quickly. To carry on temporarily bypassing this consciousness, suspending judgement is what we mean by self-trust.
We let in on our 'secrets' not all at once and not altogether. In other words, a certain amount of self-deceit is necessary as we 'fumble' our way in the dark, and once we find a 'clearing', a 'path', we will to develop courage to make-do without these self-deceits,, like ascending or descending a flight of stairs without the 'support' of the railings.
We attain to a higher self(-integrity).

But as we saw in my recent post on BIID,
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Body-Integrity-Identity-Disorder, cases where the body and consciousness is unable to cohere into a self-conscious unity, tells us there is a war going on at bottom, and no necessity that this war would always result in a stable form.

Mutations and disintegrations are the norm. Efficient stabilities are the exception.
Disorder is norm, and order is rare.

In that sense, wherever an order reigns, we may say Apollo has gotten the upper hand.

And this is where VOt goes wrong.

They consider be-ing a 'victory', a 'valuable'. And using this as starting-point, as 'ground' they then develop backwards. Order is a positive, the first prime, self-clenched, whose self-valuing is measured by the degree of force it takes entropy to dismantle or dis-integrate this cohesion.
They conclude from here, that value is ontological ground of all existence, right up to the inorganic universe. A pan-psychic universe.
From which follows the whole hedonistic ethics of Plotinian Spinoza/Leibniz.

The temporal stability - the sense of a 'self' is a triumph and therefore a primal 'design'. Any deviation from this "original structural integrity" leads to pain and disharmony, an undoing of coherence.
The picture that evolves is an entity continually maintaining itself [conatus/self-preservation], and slowly building into a density, a duration, a persistence.
This 'wall' as armour against entropy.

After I pointed out the pure performative hedonism in that model, they improved their position to a more Nietzschean one, where an entity to gain efficiency cannot but confront higher and higher entropic reality, as a result of which, its "original structure" may even be undone, it may experience death, and whether it rises to re-stabilize into a more efficient/elastic configuration or collapse and dissolve away altogether is matter of self-selection, or 'self-valuing' - "how much lust do you have for life to self-organize into a more efficient structure?"
Psyching up to adaptation: to what extent can you set terms and prevail in this world - the self as a creative force, is a degree of lust for life, self-love.
Our conscious values are products of our excess, in the sense of this lust to confront entropy at its max. excessive swell - higher and higher reality.
"How much truth can you dare?..."

It sounds right, and it is, except when you note how Nietzsche is adjusted under the Plotinian premise of first taking order as valuable, as a positive. nature=god.

This way, when an entity does 'die' and re-stabilize into a higher form, they can say, the new form is an avatar of the "original structural integrity", much like in a fractal. Where a small design at a lower level accumulates other factors in interaction and coheres as a variation built upon that design, in the higher plane. So what may 'appear' random may very well be a design in a 'continuous chain of being':

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From there, its just one step to making a case for a self-valuing universe.


What's wrong in this picture is many things.

1. One cannot declare order as a valuable or a positive at the ontological level, because, since there is only becoming, no value to anything can be fixed - such an absolute vantage is lacking.
But because they acknowledge there are no absolutes, they resort to taking all being as valuable. But then as all being is valuable, it makes the concept of value itself redundant.


2. They can only make the above assumption at the religious level, where the founding of a kosmos [not universe] rests on the demarcation of life as sacred and disorder as profane.
At the ontological level [and ontology means the study of existence, the 'ground' of being in Relation to Reality which is pure becoming], such an assumption wont hold, since nature is truly indifferent to life or death.
It cares not who or what survives.


3. Within the religious sense, still it is wrong, because not every order is automatically positive, automatically a victory.
Many a creature can survive and continues to survive with deceit or sheltering or other means - such coherence is not automatically a victory; if it is, and everything is already valuable just for existing, then any idiot and his perspective stands to a valuable, making the concept of value and selection, a non-sense.


4. It is argued by them that an ontology only explains the state of be-ing and does not dictate what is or is not noble.

Yet, the state of be-ing itself would disintegrate if did not posit for itself obstacles against which it can resist to grow, overcome, flourish.
It is the creative force itself that draws For itself the highest norms.
The more self-selected an entity, the more it as-pires for the highest Norms for Its resistance.
Else any creature can utilize any quality of obstacle to raise itself.
Rather the highest be-ing corresponds to the highest selecting standards it is capable of, as resistance to select itself.
A higher be-ing not just values to Its utmost, but it values to The utmost, The highest standard attained so far.
The quality of ideals protracted into the future, is based on how much of the highest standard it can incorporate.
A Leibnizian ontology that leaves everything to its own state of being is actually promoting an anarchy, and deselecting pressure, cooling down the conditions for agonistic affirmation. Its why I have said VOt in short as the "absolutization of relativism" is a dysgenics. Which brings us to the last point, in this context anyway;


5. One cannot have an ideology that at the same time says:

"everything tries to value to its utmost", and also say,

"nothing should impose its value on another".

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

An entity that tries to value to its utmost, Will have to impose its value on another, appropriating it to its terms.

At the political level, affirming orthodox judaism, while opposing zionism translates either to a poor intelligence or a hypocrisy.

In other words VOt promotes false hybrids, inducing conflicting loyalties and schizoid affirmations. How is it a zig-zag of Zeus' lightning that is the affirmation through-beyond the good and the bad, which in VOt amounts to avowing judaism but disavowing zionism, as if, they do not have a continuity… and judaism is only example.

It could be any other; for instance, their support for Blues/Tarantino's America, and their opposition to US export-democracy, as if there was no continuous logic between the two.

Or again, when they praise the self-valuing of an entrepreneur's creative enterprise, while condemning vampire-capitalism that turns people into sitting ducks, as if the two do not share a continuity when played out to its logical end.

You see?

Its because of selecting certain parts from here and certain parts from there, just as Xt. did, there is a schizoidness to VOt, which can compel one to agreeing while self-contradicting at the same instance.

When they state they cannot understand why "we hate them", when what they want and fight for is a world, where man values himself and is not rendered an impotent consumer, its because they do not care to see it is their ideal of a world, where all the things that promote the Sartrean freedom of self as continuous project is on one side, and all that oppresses and automatically evil is opposed on the other side. Even though Sartre speaks of consciousness preceeding values in a rationalist fashion, while VOt is about values preceeding consciousness, its still the same project of self-creation dependent on human coming together.

When the standard criterion is creative forces on one side and non-creative forces on the other side, it matters little "who" or "what" comes together from their "creativity"…
Its like saying, it matters not what dish one creates as long as the ingredients each one brings, is washed and from their own homes..?!.. as if, that is any guarantee of excellence…
Its the total self-valuing of the human potential unleashing its power, safely sheltered under "unjudgeable".  It is a highly unphilosophical stance, since the philosopher is the type of the max. judge.

This is opposite to Nietzsche who envisioned each coming from an undifferentiated neutral ground of power and differentiating themselves to the max. value, each showing itself, exposed to judgement, for what they are.

VOt makes valuing, flow into a collective-power, and what that humanity can achieve.

WTP makes power open up into stark values, exposing the entire phenomenal history of what an individual as type and summation of history can amount to as a standard-setter… like an atlas carrying the whole of humanity on his shoulders, opening gulfs between him and the past, without disconnecting. He opens a new direction and therefore a new dimension to life.

No healthy creature likes to live under the dictate of someone else, and would like to create the sun of their values to stand under.

Sure. But this cannot be given as law in the form of a "Man exists only as value. Therefore, the valuing of valuing itself is the highest value."

This is a false Ontology, but works as a religion.
It is false because it is false to already assume be-ing as a valuable and then explain being as a valuing activity. Its nothing but a circular loop.

At bottom all is abyss, and there is no ground. Yes, we need to put something there.
A healthy deceit. The self raising itself by its self.
What we can put there is only conditions, create pressures that make man Want to value himself, and those that don't, are selected out.
Lust, intelligence from the heart, is an elevating force to those who have strong senses, and it gives them eyes, clarity, a panoramic view and values born of godly height,, and in those who are the disinherited, the weak, the poor, passion is a devastating force, crushing them as fodder for some higher type.

By already assuming being as a valuable, VOt diminishes pressure.
The conditions that create pressure are war, danger, naturalness, phenomenal forces, beastly [not degenerate animal] vitalities that make one Want to Breed upwards…
This is self-selection.

Unable to dwell on this more.
Bigger fish to fry.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:49 pm

FC wrote:
It is the least innocent phenomenon that I know of; the belief that I am innocence is the greatest cruelty ever inflicted on me; I am cruel, and I know it. I know it so I can control it. This is self-valuing.

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Taking responsibility for who one is and being responsible for who one is are two different things.

All becoming is an innocence.

But those that take responsibility separate out from those who want to transfer responsibility [why Xt. preached free-will: to punish another].

Its why I had already said, responsibility must arise as pride, and not from guilt For another being such and such.
No one is; there is only an IOB.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:32 pm

Taking responsibility, being cause in the matter of one's life is a grace one gives to their self. A matter of pride, indeed. One can be at the cause of creating a new way of being where there is a perceived weakness. Being a victim of a weakness is inauthentic about the self and against self-integrity.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:34 pm

I am not "well studied" on VOt nor ILP in general, so it's likely I missed its finer workings.

Lyssa wrote:
5. One cannot have an ideology that at the same time says:
"everything tries to value to its utmost", and also say,
"nothing should impose its value on another".
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

My instincts on VOt are the same as you've illuminated here. I just did not have the confidence, or verbal acumen, to formulate it as you have.

Lyssa wrote:
The conditions that create pressure are war, danger, naturalness, phenomenal forces, beastly [not degenerate animal] vitalities that make one Want to Breed upwards…

Related to above; I am not particularly adept at expressing it - but I do a lot of my philosophical work in comparison to instinct. Even if I fail at expressing it.

As before, you are right that I am mostly unfamiliar with VOt; and I do tend to take a rationalist reductive approach as it's the framework which most closely resembles my intuitive approach to philosophy, that I'm familiar with. That, or there is a hesitance on my part into 'taking the plunge' into a more refined framework. My response under the Spinoza thread was more of a musing as to the nature behind the thought of VOt than it was a reiteration of what you had posted. Perhaps mistakenly, I try to lump every philosophy I perceive as nihilistic under one banner: nihilism. I use each one I come across as a means to refining my understanding of what underlies the condition so I can continue the very objective which I had informed you of yesterday - the reason I came here.

My response was not a criticism specific to VOt, but to nihilistic thought in general; which I saw VOt as falling under. Your elaboration was appreciated, though. Specifically thought provoking was your elaboration on how we must tell some lies to ourselves in order to advance ourselves. I wrote something on this and then redacted it. If you're interested, you can have a read:

Redacted:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:05 am

Mr.Monk wrote:
Because existence is experienced through the being of a being, the past is nothing but a reference that does more to limit than to expand the possibilities of the being.

When the being struggles out of the grip of his contextual past, he is left with "nothingness" which is a space in which he can design his own ways of being that work to make way for desired possibilities.

That's my puny understanding of how to use ontology but it somehow fucking works.

The nothingness simply being where one's knowledge ends. This is where he creates. But, to be more exact, this is where he finds his past, or in other words, finds his nature.

To clarify the above: One has explicit consciously known values, and has explicit consciously known information on circumstance. One may find himself in a situation where he has indecision about what action to take for the following reasons: That he has a good idea about the outcomes for various actions, but not a good idea which outcome he values most, or, he has a good idea what outcome he values most, but little idea what action to take to achieve that outcome, or, he has knowledge of neither. With all three options he's conscious of finding himself in action, rather than first finding himself consciously willing an action. In the first, it's because he can't consciously will an action for which he has no conscious preference. In the second, it's because he can't consciously will an action when he has no knowledge which action will produce the results he prefers. In the third, it's because of both obstacles.

In no situation does one not act on the best information available, but when the conscious mind can't see the significance in the distinction, it can't consciously will an action. So then it can only find it's more subtle unconscious values and knowledge, that are more innate in his nature.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:36 am

Mr.Monk wrote:
Weakness itself is a conversation that substitutes taking on responsibility for one's experience of self.

Mr.Monk wrote:
Taking responsibility, being cause in the matter of one's life is a grace one gives to their self. A matter of pride, indeed. One can be at the cause of creating a new way of being where there is a perceived weakness. Being a victim of a weakness is inauthentic about the self and against self-integrity.

The more fundamental victim mentality is where one doesn't simply address blame directly to a real perceived cause of harm to him, because he has reasonable expectation of such acknowledgement providing a beneficial outcome to himself, but instead is where one blames reality itself for being the cause, as if he were somehow not only largely independent from reality, but having a prior arrangement with it as to how it would treat him.

For example, one breaks an arm from a falling tree branch. The blame is not his alone, the tree's alone or any one thing, but a complex of factors that he can only conceptualize so as to avoid future accidents of that nature. And if, for example, he can possibly get redress from the owner of the tree, and he currently lacks the generosity to not bother trying, then he might openly blame the owner, in other words, claim to be a victim. But, if one breaks his arm in such a manner and takes it like a victim in the more fundamental way, he's impeding his own progress. When one thinks that an event happened due to a fundamental malice in reality, he's failing to see the actual factors that lead to the event, and therefore learning less from the event. Furthermore, he creates spite that is not directed at an actual real source. If he takes responsibility for his own role in the event, in the form of disappointment in oneself, he can possibly creating the impetus for self improvement. But, by not directing the event inwards to the extent that it deserves to be, but still maintains spite, then it will be directly outwards, but obviously in an unfocused manner, being that it's aim is the illusion of reality as a whole, or in Xt. terms, God. Unfocused energies not only do not empower one, they make one easier to take advantage of.

When one takes responsibility in the most empowering way, one is not afraid to admit the role his own weakness had. But, it may seem as if he must deny his weakness and claim that he willed an event that actually went against his values, because otherwise, he would not be taking ownership or possession of the event. But, responsibility needn't be seen in those terms. It's arrogant, or in other words, deceitful to claim to have power over something one doesn't. To take responsibility in the most empowering way is to fully recognize one's role in responding to an event, honestly, with action, not with wishes. If one recognizes that the past is a fullness, meaning it is the very substance of what is present, and therefore could not have been otherwise, one won't waste time wishing it was otherwise, and be mired in disempowering fantasies, but rather one will spend one's time willing, now wishing, the present to be otherwise, within the limits of his strength.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:54 am

Thanks for that, Stuart.

Quote :
This where he finds his past/nature
The being is being given by nature, yes. The nature arises from the past(genetic+memetic), yes.

But the being experienced in this moment is actually a reaction to the predicted future and this future is predicted based on the decisions made in the past which is giving the nature.

It is projection of the past experiences into the future, yes?

So when there is "nothingness", it is actually 'clearing' the future by removing those decisions kept in there based on the past to open it up to all possibilities that are known to exist as well as those that are yet not discovered but can exist. This also allows for the being to freely deviate from their established nature.

It is the recreation of being from emptiness but the being cannot stay in this emptiness, one cannot cease to exist as long as the self exists. The nature of being is continuous and if nothing is filled in that empty space, the predominant nature re-establishes itself. This is why it becomes important to have completion with the past whether it be related to perceived weaknesses or reality based on incorrect perceptions. For that, it is necessary to distinguish the fake or the inauthentic from the real and to acknowledge it being there. Morality loses significance here and taking responsibility of the being is a grace that the being gives to itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:44 am

Slaughtz wrote:
This is postponing suffering and it can become so large that dealing with it may cause you to destroy yourself (madness). However, you suggested doing it slowly and over time - with what you may be able to handle; I am supposing, though: do you mean regardless of how massive that debt has become?


Satyr wrote:
"Weakness is protected from a world it cannot cope with with lies.
The protection comes at a price…

When does the old Socratic taunt "I know that I know nothing" become an excuse to remain humbly ignorant?


Lies perpetually deferred will come at the cost accumulated equally so.
There is no escape from reality; the further the deferrence, the higher the price.

That said, I am referring to the other side of the coin.
Without deferment, there is a good chance your eggs, i.e. your thoughts may hatch too quickly, without being thought through its whole logic. If one wants their food for thought to be properly cooked, then consciousness needs to be postponed till on has sat in every corner and accumulated raw expriences having suspended judgement. Beyond pleasure/pain, good/evil, cost/benfit.
Nobility is the cold art of arriving at judgements slowly… so one can act surely, spontaneously.
Every perfection comes at consciousness being in-corporated closing the gap between I and I am, self and action. One attains to this self-trust whn one has thought Through things Thoroughly.
A graceful ballet dancer is one who is 'not self-conscious', bcause the incorporated discipline functions instinctively



When Nietzsche called for the 'shut down' of consciousness, he meant two things.

1. Doing away with that consciousness where we have denied its continual growth and have taken it as an absolute unchanging self-identity;

Nietzsche wrote:
"Consciousness is the last and latest development of the organic and hence also what is most unfinished and least powerful. . . . If the conserving association of the instincts were not so very much more powerful, and if it did not serve the whole as a regulator, humanity would have to perish of its misjudgments and its fantasies with open eyes, of its lack of thoroughness and its credulity—in short, of its consciousness; rather, without the former, humanity would have long disappeared! Before a function is fully developed and mature it constitutes a danger for the organism, and it is good if for that time it is heartily tyrannized! Thus consciousness is properly tyrannized—not least by our pride in it! One thinks that it constitutes the kernel of the human being; what is abiding, eternal, ultimate, and most original in it. One takes consciousness for a determinate magnitude! One denies its growth and its intermittences! Takes it for the ‘unity of the organism’!" [KSA 3, 382–83/GS 84–85]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Consciousness-beginning quite externally, as coordination and becoming conscious of "impressions"-at first at the furthest distance from the biological center of the individual; but a processthat deepens and intensifies itself, and continually draws nearer to that center." [WTP, 504]


And,

2. 'Doing away' with consciousness only as its incorporation into us as our unhesitant instinct;

Nietzsche wrote:
"All perfect acts are unconscious and no longer subject to will; consciousness is the expression of an imperfect and often morbid state in a person. Personal perfection as conditioned by will, as consciousness, as reasoning with dialectics, is a caricature, a kind of self-contradiction - A degree of consciousness makes perfection impossible." [WTP, 289]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Principal error of psychologists: they regard the indistinct idea as a lower kind of idea than the distinct: but that which removes itself from our consciousness and for that reason becomes obscure can on that account be perfectly clear in itself. Becoming obscure is a matter of perspective of consciousness." [WTP, 528]

Nietzsche wrote:
"In the Greek philosophers I see a decline of the instincts: otherwise they could not have blundered so far as to posit the conscious state as more valuable. Intensity of consciousness stands in inverse ratio to ease and speed of cerebral transmission.
We must in fact seek perfect life where it has become least conscious (i.e., least aware of its logic, its reasons, its means and intentions, its utility). ...The stored-up integrity and shrewdness of generations which are never conscious of their principles and are even a little afraid of principles." [WTP, 439]

Nietzsche wrote:
"The great man... is unhesitating." [WTP, 962]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Mastery. - One has attained to mastery when one neither goes wrong nor hesitates in the performance." [Daybreak, 537]

Nietzsche wrote:
"The whole surface of consciousness - conscious­ness is a surface - has to be kept free from all of the great imperatives. Be careful even of great words, great attitudes . . . . I have no memory of ever having made an effort-you will not detect any trace of struggle in my life, I am the opposite of a heroic nature. To "will" anything, to "strive" after anything, to have a "goal," a "wish" in mind­ I have never experienced this. Right now I am still looking out over my future-an immense future!-as if it were a calm sea: there is not a ripple of longing. I do not have the slightest wish for anything to be different from how it is; I do not want to become anything other than what I am. But this is how my life has always been.

To react slowly; a great consciousness; no feeling of struggle."

Andre Gide wrote:
"Know thyself! A maxim as pernicious as it is ugly. Whoever observes himself arrests his own development. A caterpillar who wanted to know itself well would never become a butterfly."



According to the decadent's definition of the Dionysian, the 'spontaneous' would be the hedonistic letting-go of the self. And such self-abandonment is not what it means to be free or unrepressed in one's 'essence'.

According to the master's definition of the Dionysian, the 'spontaneous' is an unhesitancy from greater and greater consciousness that has become in-corporated as one's body, one's body of know-ledge that dialectics becomes unncessary. Self-possession is moving together as one 'essential' continuous self.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:49 am

Mr.Monk wrote:
Taking responsibility, being cause in the matter of one's life is a grace one gives to their self. A matter of pride, indeed. One can be at the cause of creating a new way of being where there is a perceived weakness. Being a victim of a weakness is inauthentic about the self and against self-integrity.


Original Buddhism offers the clearest ontology by far.

Mindfullness goes a long way in shaping environments and what shapes us in turn.

Responsibility in an 8-fold way.


p.s. what's the need of such a huge signature display? Are you calling attention to say something important?
(curious, not a critique)

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:13 pm

Edit: After writing this, I realized that my explanation of freedom through nothingness might have been inaccurate or made too quickly, without enough thought. But, I never really quite understood what to make of that concept, and so I thought I may as well keep my response up, rather than later attempting a revision that may not be any better, just in case you still can make use of it.

Mr.Monk wrote:
Thanks for that, Stuart.

You're welcome.

Quote :
Quote :
This where he finds his past/nature
The being is being given by nature, yes. The nature arises from the past(genetic+memetic), yes.

But the being experienced in this moment is actually a reaction to the predicted future and this future is predicted based on the decisions made in the past which is giving the nature.

It is projection of the past experiences into the future, yes?

I think you're right.

Quote :
So when there is "nothingness", it is actually 'clearing' the future by removing those decisions kept in there based on the past to open it up to all possibilities that are known to exist as well as those that are yet not discovered but can exist.

It's only the perception of such an event. Which is not to diminish the importance of understanding that perception. If one fails to understand that where his conscious knowledge ends, so to does his conscious will, then he's open to suggestion from others with their own agendas, or to simply being erratic in his decision making.

Quote :
This also allows for the being to freely deviate from their established nature.

Freedom only exists in context, meaning a freedom from something. You haven't established any specifics, so you're implication seems to be free from everything.

Quote :
It is the recreation of being from emptiness but the being cannot stay in this emptiness, one cannot cease to exist as long as the self exists. The nature of being is continuous and if nothing is filled in that empty space, the predominant nature re-establishes itself.

Something can't come from nothing. Also, I realize now, that by nothingness you don't mean the lack of conscious knowledge to create conscious action thereby necessitating unconscious action. You seem to mean conscious action, and be alluding to the concept of free will.

My understanding of the concept of freedom through nothingness is that the perceptions of others have no hold on one including the perception of the fictional God, who supposedly has a preference towards one's actions, but not the will to be clear on that preference. So while still being susceptible to the actions and words of others, one still must act based on his own perception. It's freedom of perception, which is a concept that has no meaning outside of the context of people who clearly don't realize what may seem such an obvious thing to others.

Nothingness is not where one appears to have some freedom from his nature through consciously choosing his actions. When one is conscious of making a decision, he's conscious of the reasons for the decision. Nothingness is where one finds oneself acting, and then may consciously choose to make sense of the actions, to create a narrative retrospectively. Granted all one's actions, in the end, are something one finds oneself making, because a decision to act, is always at least slightly distanced from the action. But, the key is to understand that nothingness is not anything conscious, it's one's unconscious nature; being unconscious seeming to be absolutely spontaneous, or actually being something from nothing - at least until later when one reflects on the action.

Quote :
This is why it becomes important to have completion with the past whether it be related to perceived weaknesses or reality based on incorrect perceptions.

I don't understand what you mean by completion.

Quote :
For that, it is necessary to distinguish the fake or the inauthentic from the real and to acknowledge it being there.

I understand the contrast of fake and real. Real being the more accurate knowledge. I don't understand how make relates to the term inauthentic in this context. Yes, technically the term fake and inauthentic are synonymous, but my understanding is inauthentic alludes acting on the ideas of others for no other reason than a misunderstanding of one's own primacy of his own perceptions. In other words, acting against one's own nature/being.

Quote :
Morality loses significance here and taking responsibility of the being is a grace that the being gives to itself.

I agree that morality is only a small factor, such as in the decision to seek redress for a broken arm. And one takes a more fundamental responsibility, even if not bothering to state it out loud, so as to better empower himself. I don't understand what you mean by giving oneself a grace.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:55 am

Lyssa wrote:
Every perfection comes at consciousness being in-corporated closing the gap between I and I am, self and action. One attains to this self-trust whn one has thought Through things Thoroughly.
A graceful ballet dancer is one who is 'not self-conscious', bcause the incorporated discipline functions instinctively

Lyssa wrote:
According to the decadent's definition of the Dionysian, the 'spontaneous' would be the hedonistic letting-go of the self. And such self-abandonment is not what it means to be free or unrepressed in one's 'essence'.

According to the master's definition of the Dionysian, the 'spontaneous' is an unhesitancy from greater and greater consciousness that has become in-corporated as one's body, one's body of know-ledge that dialectics becomes unncessary. Self-possession is moving together as one 'essential' continuous self.




Quote :
Self knowledge is not found by explanations and descriptions, nor by the instructions of others. At all times, everything is known only by direct experience. Whatever is experienced and known here in this world, all that is the self, consciousness devoid of the duality of the experiencing and the experience. It is the self alone that exists everywhere at all times, but because of its extreme subtlety, it is not experienced.

Consciousness is a property of the senses and reality's interaction. Consciousness is a process and does not exist on its own or as an entity.

When I meditate, the focus on sensations is narrowed down at first. It begins from the triangular part of the nose. Focus is concentrated on a small area and then this focus moves around on each part of the body. As time progresses, the focus expands while retaining the same intensity of concentration. You are in the moment as you are present to each and every constituent of the moment. You feel each sensation that arises in the body. This is experience of existence. It leads to an inquiry in the mind. Where exactly is the entity that one calls "I". Each and every sensation is subtle and has the property of arising and passing. Consciousness works here. It holds on to certain sensations, like it holds on to the nature, the boundary of the body.

Consciousness is not soul. It is not a mind inside the mind. It is what gives the experience of the experienced to the experienced.

What God can one talk about when there's no soul? What is exactly the difference between alive and dead? What is talking if not waves of sound firing up neurological patterns? Anything ever experienced is only experienced when there's interaction between the senses and the sensed.

What self can one better when there's no self? What values can one hold on to when values are mental constructs, a certain structure in the brain, an organizing, a pattern?

The 'mister' in the 'monk' is the self coming into existence as a process, a will if you will, a direction. An organizing. It has no essence except its own knowing of itself. Its humbleness lies in its impermanence. Its nature of being recreated infinitely in each moment along with the universe.




@Stuart I am yet to contextualize what you have said about creating something from nothingness and I will respond once I compare and contrast our views. We're mostly on the same thought track but I am wording it weirdly, not a well versed person.


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:50 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:39 pm

Mr. Monk wrote:
Self knowledge is not found by explanations and descriptions, nor by the instructions of others. At all times, everything is known only by direct experience. Whatever is experienced and known here in this world, all that is the self, consciousness devoid of the duality of the experiencing and the experience. It is the self alone that exists everywhere at all times, but because of its extreme subtlety, it is not experienced.

Consciousness evolved to differentiate patterns for flourishing. Patterning is an abstracting process arising from comparative segregation of one against another, distinguishing differential rates of becoming - a more obvious flow against a chaotic flux. Without distinguishable patterns, one would be dead.
Intelligibility requires contrasts provided by sense-inputs, ruptures, a tearing apart and then putting together, elastic models that arent too static or too shaky.

By the term "direct experience", I only understand it as the "mind that stops nowhere". No "clinging" to concepts, a passive identification.
This does not mean concepts aren't necessary. Abstractions are necessary to the extent, the body needs regulators like acids that break things down in order to digest and in-corporate properly. The more strong the body/senses, it needs lesser dams, lesser abstractions to moderate the flow of the sensual current to be properly in-corporated into spontaneous/sure instincts - which is what abstractions do in the healthy sense. Like dams built on water, regulating the flow and producing current.

Not sure if you are a neutral monist or a 'Sunyavada', in any case, I suggest you read Heesterman's 'Broken world of sacrifice' before you form any conclusions on this matter. If you are interested, I can share some excerpts from the book.

Also, Satyr has provided and clarified every term in his definitions; you can look it up in the sticky:

Satyr wrote:
"Abstraction

1- Mental simplification, generalization.
A mental model constructed by using sensual data gathered through the sense organs (externally), or through the organism's nervous system (internally).

2- The cutting away of dimensions so as to process and store a phenomenon interacted with by using a mediating medium, such as light, air, electromagnetism.

3- Ordering of a disordering world.
The brain cuts away segments of the perceived so as to construct static models in a fluid environment."


-


Mr.Monk wrote:
Consciousness is a property of the senses and reality's interaction. Consciousness is a process and does not exist on its own or as an entity.

When I meditate, the focus on sensations is narrowed down at first. It begins from the triangular part of the nose. Focus is concentrated on a small area and then this focus moves around on each part of the body. As time progresses, the focus expands while retaining the same intensity of concentration. You are in the moment as you are present to each and every constituent of the moment. You feel each sensation that arises in the body. This is experience of existence. It leads to an inquiry in the mind. Where exactly is the entity that one calls "I". Each and every sensation is subtle and has the property of arising and passing. Consciousness works here. It holds on to certain sensations, like it holds on to the nature, the boundary of the body.

The 'mister' in the 'monk' is the self coming into existence as a process, a will if you will, a direction. An organizing. It has no essence except its own knowing of itself. Its humbleness lies in its impermanence. Its nature of being recreated infinitely in each moment along with the universe.


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-


Mr.Monk wrote:
Consciousness is not soul. It is not a mind inside the mind. It is what gives the experience of the experienced to the experienced.

Yes, awareness is not soul; consciousness is sensual knowledge.
Soul is the wisdom born of all awareness acquired by the spirit. The quality of the spirit reflects the quality of the soul.
The self is the sagacious body:

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[From a Dionysian pov., in the triadic sense for me, it is,

Spirit - will
Self - body
Soul - mind]

Satyr:

Satyr wrote:
"Self-consciousness emerges, first, as a consciousness of otherness, recognizing. The mind perceives another consciousness perceiving it, and establishes the preliminary step towards the “I.”
This dependence of the self upon the other for the validation of Self progresses until it attains a more discriminating level. It still finds recognition of self through otherness, but becomes increasingly dissatisfied by the recognition and validation of otherness which is beneath it in awareness.
In the Hegelian Master/Slave dynamic, the master wishes to be validated by masters, like him, and cannot find much gratification in the validation of those he thoroughly dominates.
The otherness reflects us with its perceptions.
We first get a glimpse of our own uniqueness, our distinction, through the perceptions of the other.
We begin to cognize self in the other’s (re)actions.
This is why the other becomes indispensable to our later validations. We wish to be perceived in a certain way so as to embody the perception we are trying to establish.
Self-Consciousness, as the sophistication of consciousness, is a turning inward, towards the internal processes, when the external has been effectively dealt with to the point where an excess of consciousness remains.
Self-Consciousness discovers self as it would an alien otherness in the outer world. This first discovery creates this dichotomy of psychological fragmentation that results in the Bicameral Mind and to the concept of spirits, and gods.
Know Thyself is this exploration of self – it is an overabundance of self- consciousness seeking intimacy with itself, but because self-consciousness is always a part of consciousness turned inward, and because all is dynamic, this intimacy is always incomplete.
Man studies his own behavior, within particular circumstances, to discover who he is, and why.
Man is his own mystery, and through self, as a part of existence reflecting itself, the world remains mystifying."

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Satyr wrote:
"Self

The sum of all past nurturings.


***


Soul

1- Identifying core principles, and patterns, pertaining to the organism’s spirit: sum of all past. [Spirit]

2- Soul is a term used to refer to the desirable elements in an organism’s past (spirit) – these need not be known or understood but appreciated vaguely, as the necessary patterns of the organism’s spirit.

3- The desired parts of past, wanting to be preserved indefinitely, gives the meaning of the word “soul” a timeless dimension.


***


Spirit


1- The sum of all past, relating to a living organism is what the word “spirit” usually implies.

2- Pertaining to the study of this past, identifying and orienting the organism within world, and the appreciation of all that preceded which makes the organism possible becomes spirituality: worship of this past in an anthropomorphic, or other symbolic, metaphorical form.

3- Because an organism is an aggregate of patterns in conjunction, spirit refers to only patterns manifesting as presence. The past is present in spirit.

4- Referring to psychology, as organ hierarchy, the word is synonymous with personae. [personality]

5- Breathing in & out, the systolic/diastolic phases of organic life, and congruities of patterns united into oneness in the organic brain.

6- Man projects himself in all things order(ing), to feel a connection with it, to make this alien other, this lifeless pattern, comprehensible, by using himself as the standard, and so man breathed into all nature his own essence, and eventually constructed God, as the idealized form of man."


***

Personality

1- The sum total of organ hierarchies manifesting in an attitude towards otherness. Internal organ (inter)actions, their balances and dynamics produce a personæ, a personality, a particular psychology.

2- Private-self revealing itself in part.

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Also: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:57 pm

Mr.Monk wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
what's the need of such a huge signature display? Are you calling attention to say something important?
(curious, not a critique)

Actually, I am [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on GTAF and some months ago, another member there called [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (a.k.a. Rusty Balls) shared some interesting content which I reverse-googled to find the "Satyr in Short" thread.

In later conversations and on various occasions, he implied he was Satyr and his profile matched with KT's Satyr. Later, he sent me some 'lectures' and links to books and videos and I joined this site on his suggestion after reading some threads.

After joining KT, I had been contacting Satyr thinking he was Rusty Balls but yesterday it got cleared that Rusty Balls was most probably impersonating Satyr and plagiarizing stuff. Yet, I am glad I got diverted to this site.


I'll have to register on that forum to see the links you posted, which I have no time for.
Since he directed you here, looks like his intent was to promote the forum.
No matter.

Thanks for sharing how you came abt. here though.


Quote :
Please don't mind it.

I asked because it reminded me of a troll who was a member here before, but apparently you are not him.

So whatever works to 'know thyself'.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:47 pm

Lyssa wrote:
I suggest you read Heesterman's 'Broken world of sacrifice' before you form any conclusions on this matter. If you are interested, I can share some excerpts from the book.
Yes, please.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:00 pm

Fixed wrote:
I dont want to slander you, but I have a vague feeling you've been reading either Satyrs or Lyssa's post on VO.
They are enslaved to it, resent this, and do everything in their power (and it is all they now do in their life) to make people like you approach it in their stunted ways.

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Next we'll be hearing about how surgeons operating on diseases are "enslaved" to bacteria and worms…
How the existence of physicians and philosophers Tackling stupidity and hypocrisy in the world are "resentful", because there's nothing Greater than valuing, and hard-logically, anyone who critiques it, can only be resentful of course…

Even this is a piece of hypocrisy - the very fact that valuing affirmers who speak of consistencies, should find people who Value Everything and Anything happening in the world as a whole on a consistent pace as "obsessed resenters" is sadly a back-firing and betrays the ill-logic of their process.

Worm, before you call me stunted, admit to Anders, how you ran away - as usual, from all the conflicting problems that was unearthed in VO…

Stunted is what I would call someone supporting statements like:

Sauwie wrote:
"I feel that I justify the whole state of the world and all of history."

for purely Sentimental reasons of friendship…

Otherwise, you would have to explain what you are doing encouraging mental illness like statement above..

Shall we all just say, "I justify the whole state of the world and all of history" and become believers? WHERE is this justification?

Did you not preach about taking Responsibility….?

Really WORM??  This is the brilliance you support?
If so, I certainly agree your IQ is "off the charts"…


And here's your other one:


Quote :
"Most racist people just have a lack of information about the race they despise (for example blaming "blacks" for higher rates of crime and drug use in inner cities and black communities without understanding how "white" society created and perpetuates unequal conditions and disparities such as poverty, stigma, low education access and the war on crime, all of which works to create the higher levels of crime and drug use)…

Since racism (and other biases such as homophobia and misogyny) is fundamentally negative it requires a stimulating animus from outside itself in order to become active; this animus is usually fear, anxiety or anger.

The racist self-identifies with his own race to achieve positive self-worth and a sense of moral righteousness, namely an existential certainty. Now the construct is complete: the racist loves himself (and those of his own race) and hates others (of the hated racial group/s). Strong recurring emotions will still be needed to keep this construct functioning."

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The bi-gotry of the half-Capable will on the one hand endorse self-valuings, while at the same time beg us to accept thuggery and misery of the human spirit as fact, in the face of any adverse circumstance.
As if, nobility wasn't birthed in the face of the worst disadvantage, in the tightest corners...

One rather teach that adverse circumstance brings out the worst, rather than teach, adverse circumstance brings the worst out! The selective force.
Adverse circumstance is to be blamed for black crime, rather than judge blacks as what they are in the face of adversity. What is left of any 'self-valuing' thence?

One is supposed to be guilty for their "self-valuings", the distance with which one rises, one distinguishes, one masters when it comes to whites…, and one is supposed to be excused for their "self-valuings" when it comes to blacks, in the face of competitive 'Diversity' which VOts love so much...

It all comes down to money, and economy to explain the human spirit, apparently.


You support this double-standard, Dearest?

What's left of your VOt when your buddies are preaching against adversity rather than raising oneself to the task?!
How self-defeating…, I laugh.

Shite, this isn't even the half of it…


Yes, I am obsessed with life, with this and that, and VO, just as any other...

I am obsessed with it all…

and I take responsibility to address Irresponsible comments from this to that...

how responsible are you, dearest?

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:56 pm

Sauwie wrote:
Nietzsche wrote:
"If the innermost essence of Being [Sein] is will to power, if pleasure is every increase of power, displeasure every feeling of not being able to resist or dominate: may we not then posit pleasure and displeasure as cardinal facts? Is will possible without these two oscillations of Yes and No? But _who_ feels pleasure?... But _who_ wants power?... Absurd question: if the essence itself is power-will and consequently feelings of pleasure and displeasure. Nonetheless: opposites, obstacles are needed, therefore, relatively, _encroaching units_... Locally---
if A has an effect on B, then A is first locally separate from B" (Nietzsche, Nachlass Spring 1888 14 [80], entire.)

If one conceives these encroaching units as power-Willings, as distinct from power-willings, that does not explain how they are even _relative_ units. The old (soul-)atom is let go of in making that distinction (the unit is no longer thought of as a power-willing _thing_), but thereby the who or what, the essence, is absolutely lost. In order to rescue Nietzsche's _relatively_ encroaching units from being reduced to nothing… Fixed Cross has complemented Nietzsche by thinking through power-Willings as self-Valuings.

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Sauwie is blatantly lying here.

He knows damn well, there is no need for any "complementing" by Fixed Cross or whoever, when N. fills the gap himself by introducing the word pathos, that he clearly says is not valuing; cf. WTP, 635, already quoted in this thread.




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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:57 pm

Why am I not surprised?
Liars congregate...patterns in congruity.
They attract each other, because a shared need, manifesting differently, binds them.

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:58 am

Speaking of Sanitization and under-ground sewers,

Rome had gladiatorial games, where the unter-animality of the slaves had to overcome all their Bull in the underground belly of the earth, the appetitive part. Even sanitizing had its element of warrior logic, where the fittest slave could add, and only then, could add, to Rome's eternity.

Not perma-banning away, but the exact contrary of a tightly closed space confrontation.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:03 pm

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The above thread only demonstrates what we have pointed about VOt all along.

That it is a piece of hedonism, that can sustain itself only in Tyranny and Absolutism/Totalitarianism of banishing diversity, while it claims to be pro-diversity of all values that further agon, and slogans it lacks the Heart to affirm - like "War is the father of all things", etc.

Christ-Valuing or Value-"Oncology" or Value-OntoTheism is a Xt. epicureanism, possible only in a self-limiting, pressure-deselecting, life-annulling square peg where victory is first guaranteed and bought, and then the trumpets for war blown.

Its a kindergarten for the weak and those with special (dis)abilities.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:57 pm

A recent comment I made simplified the concept of positive nihilism and negative nihilism the same way. Positive nihilism is the destruction of hierarchy by totalitarianism, negative nihilism is the sowing of chaos.

Most human male positive nihilisms involve some form of peace, or anti-aggression principle, because it seduces the feminine aspect of humanity. Things like the N.A.P. become their own sort of violent straight jacket, as we see with SJWs that redefine violence to be "micro-aggressions". Those most tolerant end up being the most weighed down and chained.
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PostSubject: Re: Fixed and Value Ontology Today at 10:04 pm

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