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PostSubject: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptySun Mar 28, 2010 12:02 am

I decided that since I registered here I would go ahead and briefly introduce myself.

Some of you may recognize me from other forums, and I certainly recognize a few of you, namely Satyr, with whom I have held multiple conversations of significant length and quality. There are those of you that I do not recognize, but may or may not get to know in the future depending on how active I am at this forum.

I do not harbor any preconceived ideas of how active I intend to be at this Forum, although I will say that I had been lurking here (albeit not registered) for the last few months and recently noticed that there is a newly imposed (yet substantial) limitation on what non-members have access to. I've not yet taken the time to check out the Administration Forum, so I know not whether or not this was a deliberate action taken by this site.

Either way, there may be many of you here who have had a problem with me in the past, and all that I ask is that if you have any insults for me you save them for the time being, as I was perfectly happy just to be a lurker on this site.

Thank you, and I might see you around the boards.

-PavlovianModel146
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptySun Mar 28, 2010 12:21 am

Welcome.

Post as often as you like, or do not post at all.

All are free to do as they please.
I, myself, am limiting my participation here to only weekends...and to moderating one or two sub-forums as long as the admins wants me to.

As for the restrictions...they are deliberate.
Call it an experiment.

Too many children, weirdos, retards, and all sorts of human trash wearing all kinds of masks, playing all types of word-games, wanting all variations of self-validation.
In this age of the computer and where information is accessible to all, the methods abound...and the pretenses increase.

Most are transparent, others less so, but all fascinating from an anthropological point of view.

Participation, in itself, is an interesting social phenomenon, particularly when it involves some kind of intellectual premise, as many of these forums do....yet they all cannot hide that underlying primal urge, that drive to dominate or to belong to or associate with the dominant.

Albeit this forum is not mine, I did suggest to the administrator a more discriminating approach, based on my experiences with other forums and how they all inevitably decline into the same schoolyard antics...now played by, hypothetical, adults.

How long this will last, I do not know, nor much care, as my age forces upon me other concerns, and my mind is naturally drawn to solitude, but it still sparks my interest when an out of the ordinary character emerges, or when an ordinary character, with out of the ordinary methods, emerges and comes forth to break the hum-drum with an exception that clarifies an aspect of human nature.

If a more open format is what you crave, then bring it up with the administrator, and or the other moderators, for I am sure some accommodation can be reached if the majority wishes it.

See ya around.

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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptySun Mar 28, 2010 2:14 am

I definitely understand the desire to reach some sort of semi-exclusivity with this Forum, especially given the experiences that you personally (and, I'm sure some others) have had with other Forums as Administrators, Moderators or Posters. In addition to that, it doesn't seem that this is the sort of Forum that would have any interest in playing the numbers game in terms of acquiring membership anyway, so the way things are being done seems about right.

The only thing that I would let the Administrators know is that however this was done, it may make the Forum appear as to not have any new posts for quite some time, which could deter individuals who would otherwise be positive contributors from posting. Of course, if this is not a concern then you could simply take it all the way and make this an invitation-only Forum with a grandfather clause for those who have already joined, of course.

I also concur with your observation of increased pretenses in an anonymous sub-world and understand your desire, and the desire of this Forum, to limit these pretenses to whatever extent as is possible. Pretension, as it were, is the only weapon of those who do not know themselves that has any chance of (as if by accident) hitting its intended target. This makes sense because those who do not know themselves cannot be respected as even having the possibility of knowing anything, yet they speak from a position of one who does know something...

Everything that they say is pretentious.

The saddest aspect of it is that the majority of such people are not hiding by choice, or deliberately, but are rather hiding because they have not yet found themselves. They are incapable of seeing themselves for what they really are, yet others can.

Your points about participation also make sense as there is a measurable strength in numbers, but there is also a quality of strength that many recognize in addition to the quantity of strength. It is for that reason that many seek to be amongst the absolute elite because they see the elite for what it is and realize that if they can become one of the few that comprise the elite that they will be stronger for it. Others will not seek to be amongst the elite in terms of quality, but will rather seek to be among the elite in terms of quantity (i.e. the biggest group) these are your social butterflies who find comfort in a group...any group...provided the group be of great number.

The many weak have gathered before to overthrow the few strong, but it is usually the strong who are in power (intellectually and otherwise) and as society has a tendency to replicate the very elite of the weak will eventually band together to form the new strong which is a minority in numbers yet has the majority of the power.

Occasionally there are individuals such as myself that find a way to survive in either, or any of the groups, and at least in the on-line world that seems to have benefitted me thus far. It has probably benefitted me in the real world as well, but unlike the on-line world where you may have single semi-permanent posts or threads frozen in a moment in time where the memory is perfect; it is far more difficult to know one's exact standing in the real world as it is always changing.
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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptySun Mar 28, 2010 4:11 am

Only those labeled "Specimens" are limited to posting in the Colosseum, those labeled "Members" can post/read every category.
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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptySun Mar 28, 2010 6:15 pm

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
I definitely understand the desire to reach some sort of semi-exclusivity with this Forum, especially given the experiences that you personally (and, I'm sure some others) have had with other Forums as Administrators, Moderators or Posters. In addition to that, it doesn't seem that this is the sort of Forum that would have any interest in playing the numbers game in terms of acquiring membership anyway, so the way things are being done seems about right..
The admin, being still young, does find numbers appealing...but I am older....and I've grown weary of the same old shit from the same of kinds of idiots, with the same old motives, using the same old tactics.

It is true that I did enjoy it in the past...but now I find myself reading some of these fools, some living pitiful lives, from their own accounts, in situations I would not wish upon my enemy and I wonder what the use is in responding in kind?

There was a time when I dealt with far more formidable verbal opposition than the ones I find around me these days, and all that academic posturing, and religious obsession with one's own projections, might be interesting, as i said, from an anthropological perspective, but it becoems repetitive...as men follow patterns that differ only in variation.

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
The only thing that I would let the Administrators know is that however this was done, it may make the Forum appear as to not have any new posts for quite some time, which could deter individuals who would otherwise be positive contributors from posting. Of course, if this is not a concern then you could simply take it all the way and make this an invitation-only Forum with a grandfather clause for those who have already joined, of course.
Then you should PM apaosha directly.

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
Occasionally there are individuals such as myself that find a way to survive in either, or any of the groups, and at least in the on-line world that seems to have benefited me thus far.
You have something i lack: patience...although I do find myself more and more able to keep my mouth shut and my opinions to my self, after the birth of my son, and after my fortieth birthday.

I care less and less about me....and more and more about only one.

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
It has probably benefitted me in the real world as well, but unlike the on-line world where you may have single semi-permanent posts or threads frozen in a moment in time where the memory is perfect; it is far more difficult to know one's exact standing in the real world as it is always changing.
My views seem to be unintentionally controversial, and my no-prisoners style, makes me easily hated.

These days I prefer to seclude myself from the dirt, or have minimal contact, as my interests have expanded beyond myself.

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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptySun Mar 28, 2010 10:06 pm

[quote="Σατυρ"]

There was a time when I dealt with far more formidable verbal opposition than the ones I find around me these days, and all that rpose of being able to better my son and to provide for him the foundations he needs to thrive in this world.  I doubt if there is anything most (good) fathers want for their sons than for them to be better than they were in all respects.

I appreciate the compliment as it relates to my patience, by the way.

[quote]My views seem to be unintentionally controversial, and my no-prisoners style, makes me easily hated.


Your no-prisoners style is understandable because it weeds out the pussies from the group.  It lets you know who is going to listen and occasionally actively Debate with you on the premises and who is wasting your time.  

It may seem strange, then, that at ILP it is my job to ensure that the rules are upheld, but I do like working within the confines of a given set of rules.  It doesn't really matter to me what they are provided they are understood and followed to some degree.  Even, "No Rules," is a rule because it becomes codified when announced.
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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptyMon Mar 29, 2010 12:04 am

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
I understand your point, though you might consider the possibility that it is not the formidability of the opposition that has changed, but your own formidability as well as the solidness of your positions. Consider your, "The Feminization of Mankind," essay, were you to re-read the first draft of that essay that you had ever written you would be able to oppose the essay, advocatus diaboli, and tear it to shreds.
And if there has been one use for participating in discussions with morons, trying to tear me down, so their own ego is left unblemished, it has been in providing for me a sounding-board to see where I need to clarify and where I need to add and/or subtract.

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
When it comes to repetition, I doubt if that is something that can largely be helped. Too many Philosophical positions that have been fully espoused over and over again, and unlike other sciences which are constantly evolving and changing with great rapidity, Philosophy rarely changes and when it does, the change is slow in coming.
I must admit that although the idea was complete in my mind, the responses I initially received did surprise me. I'm not talking about the negative ones, as those were expected, but the positive ones....the interest it got, especially from young men who were trying to put words to what they were seeing, and amongst whom I once counted my self....back when all this was still confusing and made the world an insane place to live in.


Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
I empathize with that. If I seek to better myself in any way whatsoever these days it is for the purpose of being able to better my son and to provide for him the foundations he needs to thrive in this world. I doubt if there is anything most (good) fathers want for their sons than for them to be better than they were in all respects.

I appreciate the compliment as it relates to my patience, by the way.
It was more than a compliment, it was an observation.

You and MonoExplosion share this good-naturdness and an nonthreatening demeanor, which makes you likable to most everyone.

This is not necessarily a positive thing, from your perspective.

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
Any genuine views that conflict with what we are conditioned by society to think are going to have the unfortunate consequence of being unintentionally controversial. Society tends to react harshly (even in the cyber-world) to those who play and think completely outside of their rules. Once again, a difference with me is that while I am largely conditioned in my opinions and in my Philosophies, at the same time, I can also respect Philosophies that would normally be opposed to my societally conditioned viewpoints provided those Philosophies can be sufficiently backed up.
And accusations of hate are always used to dismiss such views as byproducts of psychological dysfunction...even by those that follow ideologies that propose alternatives to the status quo.... Even in rebelliousness, one must adhere to prescribed methods and is only legitimized when part of a popular front.

Pavlovianmodel146 wrote:
It may seem strange, then, that at ILP it is my job to ensure that the rules are upheld, but I do like working within the confines of a given set of rules. It doesn't really matter to me what they are provided they are understood and followed to some degree. Even, "No Rules," is a rule because it becomes codified when announced.
But nobody talked of "no rules".

Insults, insinuations, stupidity, the paranormal, are allowed, if and only if they remain loyal to the thread's topic...and only if the individual post contains, along with all other shit, some reference to it.

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PostSubject: Re: 1-4-6 1-4-6 EmptyMon Mar 29, 2010 12:47 am

Σατυρ wrote:
And if there has been one use for participating in discussions with morons, trying to tear me down, so their own ego is left unblemished, it has been in providing for me a sounding-board to see where I need to clarify and where I need to add and/or subtract.

Exactly. If an individual that is anything but the greatest of morons is willing to set aside their own sheltered view of reality for a brief enough period of time to read your essay; they will find that in the actual reality there is very little there that can be satisfactorily argued against. It's very Empirical if anyone stops and thinks about it and we see the effects of the Feminization of Mankind all the time.

The problem that many people have is they absolutely refuse to be satisifed with an idea or premise unless it is one at which they independently arrived. I see this very often on the Forums, "If it is not mine, or some dead guy's, then it is wrong."

Quote :
I must admit that although the idea was complete in my mind, the responses I initially received did surprise me. I'm not talking about the negative ones, as those were expected, but the positive ones....the interest it got, especially from young men who were trying to put words to what they were seeing, and amongst whom I once counted my self....back when all this was still confusing and made the world an insane place to live in.

This is understandable, many of the young men you mentioned clearly had some grasp of the what, but did not understand the why, and the essay basically spoon-fed the why to them. I mean spoon-fed in a positive way in the sense that it is (or should be) easily understood.

Quote :
This is not necessarily a positive thing, from your perspective.

It can occasionally be a complete pain in the ass, to be honest.

Interestingly enough, I believe that you may touch upon the fact in your essay that the Feminization of Man is somewhat a product of evolution which necessitates adapting to changing circumstances.

That's one aspect of the essay that many people may have found offensive because it conflicted with their version of reality. The fact that most, nearly all people are as they are because they have no alternative but to be that way or something close to it. If we observe lower animals we notice that adaptation to changing circumstances, to a large degree, is not a conscious effort. Because society changes faster than we do (it must, otherwise we would have nothing needing adapted to) the whole premise of the essay is such that society controls us and that we have either no power or very little power, even on the individual level, to do anything about it.

Some people cannot handle the fact that we are largely what our environment makes of us, many of these people want to believe that they control their place within society and reality when the decisions have already been made for them.

An even more frightening (to some) possiblity that the essay brings up is the notion that society, to some degree, is its own entity and therefore there are no conspiracies, or controlling bodies playing us like pawns, but that the way that things are is merely a result of nature. The reason some find this frightening is because were there a tangible and opposable force responsible for these things, then the possiblity that they could be changed would exist, but because there may not be (and probably isn't) a tangible entity (or entities) responsible for the way reality is it is probably unchangeable at any recognizable level.

To put it simply, many of the people that react negatively towards the essay fear reality.
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