Where I Stand

I'm probably one of the laziest people you'll ever meet.

Currently, I only 12 hours a week.

I make barely enough to pay for my food and bus fare.

I used to help my dad out with rent, but no more.

At this point in time, I have absolutely no intention of going to college or university.

Me and my father will be parting ways again shortly after my 30th birthday.

If I don't find a better job, I may wind up on the street.

I have no life outside of my computer, no friends, no girlfriend.

At this point in time, I don't have any concrete plans, I'm just taking things one day at a time.

However, there's kind of this plan A, plan B in the back of my mind.

I have no interest in joining the rat race, I've never participated, and almost certainly never will participate.

Plan A is just to live a meagre existence, and find a couple of companions to share my existence with, online and/or off.

Plan B is to take things by force.

The more dire the political/economic situation looks, the more likely plan A will become plan B, and vice versa.

more later...

If you don't mind me asking, what are your hobbies? What are you, really, passionate about?

Erik wrote:

If you don't mind me asking, what are your hobbies? What are you, really, passionate about?

I used to be passionate about philosophy, and philosophy related things like politics, psychology, science.. now, I'm not even sure. I turned philosophy into a kind of chore, into a mission to save humanity. My OCD got the better of me, and I was never able to settle on a static set of doctrines, or principles. I've come to realize philosophy can't be something fixed like religion, and philosophically minded people can't fixate too much on any one or group of ideas, we have to be flexible, in our quest for truth, or, our approximations of it. So now I'm not sure where I stand with philosophy, I think I'm still into it, or I wouldn't be here, but I'm more interested in philosophizing by accident, now, kind of taking it one day at a time, as opposed to having a grandiose agenda. Also, I've been acknowledging the importance of passions and subjectivity, they play a role in our day to day lives, and even in our philosophy. For a while I shut myself, or at least my conscious self off from my passions and even subjectivity. So to answer your question, I would say philosophy, and just expressing myself, whatever thoughts and feelings I have about myself, what I'm going through, and the world, largely through words, but maybe through art and music as well. I would say self-expression is what drives me, if anything, and leading myself and whoever will listen down new paths of consciousness and activity.

Divergense wrote:

Erik wrote:

If you don't mind me asking, what are your hobbies? What are you, really, passionate about?

I used to be passionate about philosophy, and philosophy related things, like politics, psychology, science. Now, I'm not even sure, I turned philosophy into a kind of chore, into a mission to save humanity. My OCD got the better of me, and I was never able to settle on a static set of doctrines, or principles. I've come to realize philosophy isn't something fixed like religion, and philosophically minded people can't fixate too much on any one or group of beliefs, we have to be flexible, in our quest for truth. So now I'm not sure where I stand with philosophy, I think I'm still into it seems, or I wouldn't be here, but I'm more interested in philosophizing by accident, now, kind of taking it one day at a time, as opposed to having an agenda. Also, I've been acknowledged the importance of passions and subjectivity, how they must play a role in our day to day lives, and even in our philosophy, for a while I shut myself off from my passions and even my subjective self. So to answer your question, I would say philosophy, and in general just express myself, whatever thoughts and feelings I have about myself and the world, largely through words, but perhaps through art of music as well. I would say self-expression, is what drives me, if anything, and leading myself and whoever will listen, down new paths of consciousness and action.

I see, I see.

It's too bad that philosophers don't, really, make very much money, unless they become super famous and sell books.

I know you have to make your own decisions in life, but I would, strongly, recommend that you don't go down the criminal route; It's just not worth your freedom. I would just settle for a minimalistic lifestyle. Save up some cash, and then just go off-grid and enjoy your philosophical nature. Acquire a recluse female, too - as you stated.

This is a pragmatic goal that you could strive for; it's not some futile, unrealistic endeavor. Take baby steps, and in time, in no time, you should accomplish this mission.

You just need to find that inner strength, the determination. I visualize my struggles as a war, a battle. Sounds kind of cliche, or corny. But that works for me. Whatever gets you amped up, use it - use it to help you stay motivated and determined.

I know we barely know each other, but from what you have told me, I feel I can relate to you in many regards. I empathize with you, and I don't intend to patronize at all.

Stay strong.

I accept you for who you are Diver. Honestly, I think over the years your perception is going to change one way or another. Time and adversity has a way of shaping perceptions.

I've dug much too far into the depth of human psyche, no turning back for me now. I'm far outside the boundaries and would never become accepted or reintegrated into societies today. I'm simply too far gone with no care nor intention to turn around, doubt myself, or reconsider my current course of action and predetermined fate.

That is the real truth of life, predestiny. You have a course, a path, and if you have a powerful mind, then you can begin to see the events unfolding in front of you. Consciousness represents the limitation of possibilities. What you do tomorrow, has limits. What can be done in a day, has limits.

I share your sentiments about seclusion and reclusive tendencies. I mostly want to congregate with philosophpers and real thinkers, no pseudo intellectual bullshit for me, cannot stand it nor tolerate it. Like that faggot shit smear, he is the opposite of my disposition. I would need to destroy somebody like him in real life. He's the type I just cannot be around, a piece of shit who hides behind petty lies, social standing, and immaturity. A shallow and superficial modernist, no thanks.

Someday I want to unveil more of my deeper thoughts to a few very close, trusted accomplices. I want to tell somebody my wildest ideas. But they're simply too far out there to voice, even here. I need to acquire more social trust.

Also I'm confident that like congregates with like, thinkers congregate to other thinkers, causing the nature of this forum.

If we had warrior genes, murderer genes, then people here would be in the army, infantry, and congregate as soldiers. Every group has their association. And these associations are not ironic, coincidence, or random. Rarely do people "not belong" in their group. People have dissatisfaction with group standing and hierarchy, but not the nature of the formation itself.

People pursue life in two ways. You either strengthen your weakness, or you strengthen your greatest strength even higher. The latter is specialization. So an already smart person can become even smarter, usually neglecting other traits. The former is more balanced, a well rounded perspective.

I don't care about either. Some people are specialists, usually white people, and others are generalized "jack of all trades" types. White people seem to have the highest extremes between very intelligent and very stupid, within the same population or household. Other races are more rounded out.

Erik wrote:

I see, I see.

It's too bad that philosophers don't, really, make very much money, unless they become super famous and sell books.

Yeah and it wouldn't even have to be a lot of money, as I've said I'm not a materialist. It'd be nice to live off of what I'm interested in, but that may not be possible. However I have some interesting ideas about where to take philosophy/science that I can't share here/now. If these ideas took off, they could earn me a little money, maybe, but that's pure conjecture. That's ok though, I'll just get by day to day, at low skilled/low paying jobs, and pursuing my hobbies and interests in the meantime. Not everyone can find a career, some people have peculiar interests, and not everyone is able/willing to fully devout themselves to a job for the sake of money, a job they have little or no interest in. I'll find my way, I just have to either increase my hours, or find new job with more hours/slightly better pay.

Quote :

I know you have to make your own decisions in life, but I would, strongly, recommend that you don't go down the criminal route; It's just not worth your freedom. I would just settle for a minimalistic lifestyle. Save up some cash, and then just go off-grid and enjoy your philosophical nature. Acquire a recluse female, too - as you stated.

I agree wholeheartedly, I've tried the criminal route already a few times before, and it blew up in my face. I would only consider going down that road again if times got really tough, like they are or were in Spain or Greece.

Quote :

This is a pragmatic goal that you could strive for; it's not some futile, unrealistic endeavor. Take baby steps, and in time, in no time, you should accomplish this mission.

Agreed, as I've mentioned before, one of my biggest problems was trying to take on all my problems at once, writing down long lists of things I'm supposed to be taking care of, and beating myself over the head again and again with it, into a state of paralysis, rarely getting anything done. Now i'm just going to take care of my problems one at a time, as they present themselves, as they press me with their urgency.

Quote :

You just need to find that inner strength, the determination. I visualize my struggles as a war, a battle. Sounds kind of cliche, or corny. But that works for me. Whatever gets you amped up, use it - use it to help you stay motivated and determined.

I visualize myself as a deviant, leading humanity down dark new paths, away from materialism and workaholism, and into political/economic decline.

Quote :

I know we barely know each other, but from what you have told me, I feel I can relate to you in many regards. I empathize with you, and I don't intend to patronize at all.

Stay strong.

We may have much in common, it's difficult to say at this point. If I stay here longer, we'll probably get to know one another better. For a while my philosophy was partly detached from who I was as a person, and I'm in the process of merging the two. From here on out, if I philosophize at all, it's going to be from the heart. Joker taught me this, he was an inspiration to me. Say what you want about him or his philosophy, he means what he says and says what he means. He lives and breathes it. His philosophy is just as demented and warped as he is (I mean that in a good way), and that's how I want my philosophy to be, but from my unique perspective.


Thanks for your kindness.

Æon wrote:

I've dug much too far into the depth of human psyche, no turning back for me now.  I'm far outside the boundaries and would never become accepted or reintegrated into societies today.  I'm simply too far gone with no care nor intention to turn around, doubt myself, or reconsider my current course of action and predetermined fate.

Same, my personality is too divergent, my values are too divergent.

Quote :

no pseudo intellectual bullshit for me, cannot stand it nor tolerate it.

I have nothing to say that isn't real, or pertinent, to anyone.

Quote :

Like that faggot shit smear, he is the opposite of my disposition.  I would need to destroy somebody like him in real life.  He's the type I just cannot be around, a piece of shit who hides behind petty lies, social standing, and immaturity.  A shallow and superficial modernist, no thanks.

I don't wish him any harm, I just don't want much to do with his sort.

Quote :

Someday I want to unveil more of my deeper thoughts to a few very close, trusted accomplices.  I want to tell somebody my wildest ideas.  But they're simply too far out there to voice, even here.  I need to acquire more social trust.

I don't think there's anything too far out for me. There's things I agree with, or disagree with, but I'm willing/able to consider virtually anything, so long as it's coherent/intelligible.

Quote :

Also I'm confident that like congregates with like, thinkers congregate to other thinkers, causing the nature of this forum.

Agreed, I think there's a reason why I'm drawn to the discourse that takes place here, as opposed to iLP, or other offshoots of it, like "humanarchy".

Quote :

If we had warrior genes, murderer genes, then people here would be in the army, infantry, and congregate as soldiers.  Every group has their association.  And these associations are not ironic, coincidence, or random.  Rarely do people "not belong" in their group.  People have dissatisfaction with group standing and hierarchy, but not the nature of the formation itself.

Yup, birds of a feather..

Even morons on an intuitive level are able to sense where they belong, generally. Not saying I Belong here, but this forum and the people inhabiting it seem to suit what I'm going through more than any other place, for the time being.

Quote :

People pursue life in two ways.  You either strengthen your weakness, or you strengthen your greatest strength even higher.  The latter is specialization.  So an already smart person can become even smarter, usually neglecting other traits.  The former is more balanced, a well rounded perspective.

I don't care about either.  Some people are specialists, usually white people, and others are generalized "jack of all trades" types.  White people seem to have the highest extremes between very intelligent and very stupid, within the same population or household.  Other races are more rounded out.

Good point, specialization.

Of course, you and I, and many people here I'm sure, are specialists rather than generalists. Specialists stand out more, both their strengths and weaknesses are more apparent. They're more interesting, but also, more unstable.

LaughingMan wrote:

I accept you for who you are Diver.  Honestly, I think over the years your perception is going to change one way or another.  Time and adversity has a way of shaping perceptions.

You may very well be right about that.

Divergense I feel as though you've yet to expose yourself and your difference.

I feel that you have a lot of potential and like mindedness to myself. From your posts here, and on ILP, you think, understand, learn, and rationalize the world in a similar fashion as I do. You really dig deep and analyze, exposed by your writing style and depth. You see nuance where people usually stop and look no further. This indicates that you lack sufficient reasoning, which is good and necessary for philosophy.

Philosophers must never be sufficed. No reasons are ever "good enough". Philosophers are greedy with learning, education, knowledge, facts, intelligence, wisdom. Philosophers need, want, and desire more, and more, and more. Only all reasons, everything, can suffice the philosophical mind. The philosopher needs to include, all, every reason. Context is most important. Reality includes all contexts and perspectives, not just a few. People who are sufficed with just a few perspectives and opinions, or simply their own, are the solipsists. They live in a secluded world, trapped within their own psyche, and ignorance is bliss.

I really empathize and become attracted to the most curious minds and this type of person.

It reminds me that despite philosophy and philosopher being so rare.....there are still a rare few numbers around.

Philosophy represents some of the rarest types of minds. Religion is the opposite, common, average, easy, simple, faith based, opposed to doubt, etc.

I mean, for example.........

Draw a line in the sand. Carve out some shapes. Divide the world with your mind. Draw a triangle or circle. This is how people divide themselves from each other, beginning with a simple shape. I prefer....purple over yellow. I prefer....conservatives over liberals. I want cheddar cheese over brie. I want to sleep on my ride side over my left.

Etc.

It's within your needs, preference, and desires that your values, and therefore your virtues, become exposed to the world.

[quote="Æon"]Divergense I feel as though you've yet to expose yourself and your difference.[quote]
Yes, you read me well, but I feel as though I am very close.

Diver is, probably, more intelligent than most people here, yet he isn't pompous about it. He's down to Earth in the sense that he doesn't condescend to people in malice, but benevolence.

Not trying to be sycophantic, just what I believe.

Diver, there is a book, you may already know about it, called Everything in Its Place: My Trials and Triumphs with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

You write your Dad is going his own way and this means you will be living alone? I am not certain that you being left alone is the best way to go, as OCD sufferers, when alone, tend to increase the severity of their obsessive symptoms. The internet as you say interests you (although it cannot take the place of face to face interactions) these forums can have the potential to lessen the feelings of isolation you may experience and while connecting with others, or even reading about people who suffer as you do, can reduce your loneliness. I suppose it depends on the severity of your OCD, but still, the best case scenario, would be if you were to seek the appropriate help for it. I wish you well.

Whatever you do, Diver, don't listen to allemotion noreason. She offers some of the worst advice I can imagine. It's like if I tried my hardest to give somebody bad advice, allemotion would step in with something 10 times worse. She does it flawlessly and effortlessly.

If you want to lead an interesting life, I guess, just do whatever women tell you to..... and, good luck with that venture, LOL!

I encourage OCD. Become more obsessed, not less. Give in to the obsession. Let it consume you. Let it destroy you. I bet that most of the brilliant and genius minds of history were obsessive. Who wants to be "normal" anyway? Who can be normal?

The abnormal, the different, must lie to be normal.

Big Girl's Blouse,

You are immature, impatient and inconsiderate.  Your only thought is to belittle any version of reality that conflicts with your own.   Read what Diver has written.  He wants companionship, he wants stability, he wants some peace of mind.  On the other hand, you are a crazymaker, who thrives on drama, because you have nothing else happening in your own life.

Big Girl's Blouse wrote:

Quote :

Let it destroy you.

That says a lot about you.

It's better to live a life full of passion than suppress this and die slowly over decades. But you lack passion, allemotion. You have none, compared to individuals like Diver or myself. You have nothing in common, here. You would never understand the obsession that rips a mind apart. You have no reason.

You cannot reason, compared to a brain like mine. To me, you appear as a 4 or 5 year old child. A small girl.


So offering some stupid suggestion, "here, read this dumb book, written by some stupid no name faggot", doesn't help anybody. I realize that you are trying to help. But I don't think your "help" applies to Diver, in the same way it would not "help" me either. It's just pitiful, really.

I'm sure that many others here will appreciate your kind gesture, but, you don't fool me. You fool others, but not me. And you've always known this. Your lies don't work on me.

I'm sticking with my position here.


Diver, let the fire consume your soul. Give in to it, don't resist, as I have for so long. I've wasted so much time in my life resisting it. Now that I've let go, it feels great, effortless, relaxed. I am plummeting off a cliff, free falling. I'm happy about this. My thoughts are just exploding everywhere. The power of my mind is unleashed.

Let it out of its cage.

Big Girl's Blouse wrote:

Quote :

Diver, let the fire consume your soul. Give in to it, don't resist, as I have for so long. I've wasted so much time in my life resisting it. Now that I've let go, it feels great, effortless, relaxed. I am plummeting off a cliff, free falling. I'm happy about this. My thoughts are just exploding everywhere. The power of my mind is unleashed.

Let it out of its cage.

Are you saying you are also OCD?

reasonvemotion wrote:

Diver, there is a book, you may already know about it, called Everything in Its Place: My Trials and Triumphs with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.  

You write your Dad is going his own way and this means you will be living alone?  I am not certain that you being left alone is the best way to go, as OCD sufferers, when alone, tend to increase the severity of their obsessive symptoms.  The internet as you say interests you (although it cannot take the place of face to face interactions) these forums can have the potential to lessen the feelings of isolation you may experience and while connecting with others, or even reading about people who suffer as you do, can reduce your loneliness.  I suppose it depends on the severity of your OCD, but still, the best case scenario, would be if you were to seek the appropriate help for it.  I wish you well.

I appreciate your concern, and I'll consider what you have to say.

Divergense wrote:

reasonvemotion wrote:

Diver, there is a book, you may already know about it, called Everything in Its Place: My Trials and Triumphs with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.  

You write your Dad is going his own way and this means you will be living alone?  I am not certain that you being left alone is the best way to go, as OCD sufferers, when alone, tend to increase the severity of their obsessive symptoms.  The internet as you say interests you (although it cannot take the place of face to face interactions) these forums can have the potential to lessen the feelings of isolation you may experience and while connecting with others, or even reading about people who suffer as you do, can reduce your loneliness.  I suppose it depends on the severity of your OCD, but still, the best case scenario, would be if you were to seek the appropriate help for it.  I wish you well.

I appreciate your concern, and I'll consider what you have to say.

Reasonvemotion is an angel   

Æon wrote:

I encourage OCD.  Become more obsessed, not less.  Give in to the obsession.  Let it consume you.  Let it destroy you.  I bet that most of the brilliant and genius minds of history were obsessive.  Who wants to be "normal" anyway?  Who can be normal?

The abnormal, the different, must lie to be normal.

I partly agreed.

I am not necessarily against obsession.

There is such a thing as moderate to extreme, productive obsession, and such a thing as extreme, counterproductive obsession. My obsession with philosophy and a few others things was weird, it was counterproductive, as I said I turned it totally into a chore, rather than letting it naturally pour out of me. I've actually been partly insane (not in the schizophrenic or DID sense, never had those problems) for about 14 years now, where I didn't have a lot of natural, normal thoughts, and was obsessed with programming myself and society like a robot. I'm just starting to come out of it now, and believe me it's a good thing. So I'm not entirely against obsession, just the sort of unnatural, or mainly unnatural obsession I had, and imposed upon my nature. Oh well, the human mind is a peculiar thing, I'm sure there's all sorts of strange and unusual brain states strange and unusual people get themselves into. The previous few years have been the peak of my insanity, which erupted, and is cooling off.

It's good to be free.

Erik wrote:

Divergense wrote:

reasonvemotion wrote:

Diver, there is a book, you may already know about it, called Everything in Its Place: My Trials and Triumphs with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.  

You write your Dad is going his own way and this means you will be living alone?  I am not certain that you being left alone is the best way to go, as OCD sufferers, when alone, tend to increase the severity of their obsessive symptoms.  The internet as you say interests you (although it cannot take the place of face to face interactions) these forums can have the potential to lessen the feelings of isolation you may experience and while connecting with others, or even reading about people who suffer as you do, can reduce your loneliness.  I suppose it depends on the severity of your OCD, but still, the best case scenario, would be if you were to seek the appropriate help for it.  I wish you well.

I appreciate your concern, and I'll consider what you have to say.

Reasonvemotion is an angel   

I liked her old avatar, I thought it was interesting. The one with one lady behind and one in front, very dualistic. The one behind seemed to be like influencing the other, like she was reason, and the other was emotion.