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Divergense



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PostSubject: No Values Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:56 pm

I value, nothing.

Sure, I have needs, wants.

I eat and drink like anyone else.

I want to destroy everyone and everything, I don't know why.

I just have this overwhelming urge to kill.

Where did it come from?

It came from sex, not being able to fuck women, makes me want to kill.

I just want to kill.


Yeah but part of me doesn't really value anything, at all.

I desire things, sure, but is this the same as valuing them?

To me, valuing implies something more than just need or want, it implies, something absolute, or objective, or static about something.

There's nothing I can point to and say, this is good, but I can point to everything and say, it's all bad, somehow.

Everything in life has a double edge sword, every benefit has a cost, so why bother?

We, those of us who can think, measure the value of things in a little better, or a little worse, but the degrees are so slight, one begins to wonder, is there even any point?

Would not nothingness be just as good?

But I guess not, so we, or at least me and most people who can think, choose to press on anyway.

But for me, I've lost much of my vigor, my zest, my zeal.

I just barely care about anything, most people and things are more trouble than they're worth, so I prefer to be alone, with nothing but myself and my computer to keep me company.

I prefer barrenness and desolation to clutter.

I prefer silence to noise.

Slabs of concrete better suit my mood than a room with loads of decoration and ornamentation.

I hear people out there, talking about how they're going to do this or that, and I got caught up in it for a while, thinking I should do this or that too, but not anymore.

I'd rather just be who I am, and pursue nothing.

There's a lot to do already, in nothing, nothing is already a lot.

Just surviving is already a lot, working, drinking, eating, why do people want to do so much?

What is there to see, what is there to do?

It's just more of the same, more rotting carcasses, more problems, more pain mixed with pleasure.

Reality is happening here/now, and the further you dv8 from here/now, the more lost and confused you get.

This is it, this is as good as it gets.

It's not going to get much better than this, so long as you have a roof over your head and food in your belly, that's already a lot, that's already all there is, really.


Last edited by Divergense on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Impulso Oscuro

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PostSubject: Re: No Values Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:29 pm

For valuing nothing you sure do use "I" a lot.

If you wanted to destroy everyone, you wouldn't be here.

I recently was "cut" by a girl who chose a fat, mestizo, unsymmetrical, anime cosplayer over me.

This invoked thoughts of rape and murder in me but I soon realized that perhaps the females I hunt might not be of the right quality for them to value me over the average mass man.

"Appearance means something" not everything... at least for us.

Some of us honestly just need a punch to the face, that is what I value, the paternal love which is lost to us today.
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Æon
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:46 pm

Divergense wrote:
I value, nothing.

Sure, I have needs, wants.

I eat and drink like anyone else.


I want to destroy everyone and everything, I don't know why.

I just have this overwhelming urge to kill.

Where did it come from?

It came from sex, not being able to fuck women, makes me want to kill.

I just want to kill.
This is natural; you have predator genes. Predatory animals have natural instincts (urges, compulsions) to hunt and kill other mammals. Simply take a wolf hunting a deer. You are the wolf. You have the urge to kill, eat and consume, your prey.

Over the previous millenniums, humans eventually dominated the food chain and hierarchy on earth. Without natural enemies, along with domestication of cattle, chickens, and other farm animals, humans slowly began turning on each other. There are mythological, historical references to these transitions of evolution. Humans began to hunt other humans. This is why you, like Satyr, empathizes with the Hannibal Lecter figure. Murder actually is quite common throughout humanity. It is your suppression and self control that is rare, demonstrating your morality and artificiality. Morality was invented by humans, one of the main reasons to keep civilization peaceful and civil, to suppress the male specie, nature, and desires. Females are less repressed, more privileged, than males.


Divergense wrote:
Yeah but part of me doesn't really value anything, at all.

I desire things, sure, but is this the same as valuing them?

To me, valuing implies something more than just need or want, it implies, something absolute, or objective, or static about something.

There's nothing I can point to and say, this is good, but I can point to everything and say, it's all bad, somehow.

Everything in life has a double edge sword, every benefit has a cost, so why bother?

We, those of us who can think, measure the value of things in a little better, or a little worse, but the degrees are so slight, one begins to wonder, is there even any point?

Would not nothingness be just as good?

But I guess not, so we, or at least me and most people who can think, choose to press on anyway.

But for me, I've lost much of my vigor, my zest, my zeal.

I just barely care about anything, most people and things are more trouble than they're worth, so I prefer to be alone, with nothing but myself and my computer to keep me company.

I prefer barrenness and desolation to clutter.

I prefer silence to noise.

Slabs of concrete better suit my mood than a room with loads of decoration and ornamentation.

I hear people out there, talking about how they're going to do this or that, and I got caught up in it for a while, thinking I should do this or that too, but not anymore.

I'd rather just be who I am, and pursue nothing.

There's a lot to do already, in nothing, nothing is already a lot.

Just surviving is already a lot, working, drinking, eating, why do people want to do so much?

What is there to see, what is there to do?

It's just more of the same, more rotting carcasses, more problems, more pain mixed with pleasure.

Reality is happening here/now, and the further you dv8 from here/now, the more lost and confused you get.

This is it, this is as good as it gets.

It's not going to get much better than this, so long as you have a roof over your head and food in your belly, that's already a lot, that's already all there is, really.
I'm a minimalist as well, don't need much in my life.

Once you live in "nothingness", you begin to realize truths about yourself that you never could have known beforehand. Your thoughts are not a coincidence, not ironic. There is purpose behind them. They occur for a reason. You remember this, not that, for a reason. You are, precisely where you are, for a reason. For specific causes, leading you to your moment. And to the next moment, day, week, year.

I find these causes the most fascinating aspect of existence. To understand the causes, is to begin to know thyself.
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Divergense



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PostSubject: Re: No Values Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:42 pm

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
For valuing nothing you sure do use "I" a lot.
All meaningful valuations, and devaluations, come from a particular person, living in a particular place/time, as opposed to no one, from nowhere. I'm not interesting in adopting or creating an archetype/God from which to philosophize from. When I say no values, I'm speaking relatively, not absolutely, and also, I make a distinction between needs, wants and desires on the one hand, and values on the other, the former being more instinctive, the latter being more intellectual, and transcendent.

Quote :
If you wanted to destroy everyone, you wouldn't be here.
I'm merely expressing my feelings.

Feelings come and go.

Quote :
I recently was "cut" by a girl who chose a fat, mestizo, unsymmetrical, anime cosplayer over me.

This invoked thoughts of rape and murder in me but I soon realized that perhaps the females I hunt might not be of the right quality for them to value me over the average mass man.

"Appearance means something" not everything... at least for us.

Some of us honestly just need a punch to the face, that is what I value, the paternal love which is lost to us today.
People have nothing to fear from me, I'm just expressing myself.
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:18 am

Diogenes with a killer instinct.  Smile 

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Divergense



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PostSubject: Re: No Values Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:02 am

Æon wrote:

This is natural; you have predator genes.  Predatory animals have natural instincts (urges, compulsions) to hunt and kill other mammals.  Simply take a wolf hunting a deer.  You are the wolf.  You have the urge to kill, eat and consume, your prey.
Agreed, perfectly natural, I'm sure a lot of people, especially men, experience it at one time or another.

Quote :
Over the previous millenniums, humans eventually dominated the food chain and hierarchy on earth.  Without natural enemies, along with domestication of cattle, chickens, and other farm animals, humans slowly began turning on each other.
Actually, I think the less men turned on themselves, the more they were able to like gang up on nature. Prosperity has coincided with peace. The more globalist, the less racial and religious conflicts there are, the more affluent society tends to become, although a lot of that affluence is illusory - just a lot of gadgets and gizmos, most of the wealth has been consolidated by a few, mainly Jews and some European gentiles. Not only recently, but even during the colonial period, although European man was busy raping, pillaging and the like, he was only able to do such, because he stopped doing it to himself, what with all the liberal, democratic reforms, and the institutionalization of monogamy proper, the complete Christianization of Europe, the rise of the middle class, and the decline of feudalism. Europe was too busy warring with itself during the dark ages to conquer anyone or fully exploit its natural resources. Overall, violence has been declining for some time, the Rate of violence that is. However, as resources dwindle, and more wealth gets consolidated, we could see a reversing of this trend, and humanity might take a step or two or three, back, or it may even annihilate itself in total war.

Quote :
There are mythological, historical references to these transitions of evolution.  Humans began to hunt other humans.  This is why you, like Satyr, empathizes with the Hannibal Lecter figure.
I'm not sure how much I empathize with that character, I'm going off more on what Satyr has said about him, than what I actually know about him, Moreno's depiction of him might be more accurate for all I know.

Quote :
Morality was invented by humans, one of the main reasons to keep civilization peaceful and civil, to suppress the male specie, nature, and desires.  Females are less repressed, more privileged, than males.
I think there's a sort of natural morality - empathy/sympathy, a sense of fairness/justice, and an artificial morality, but it's not uniformly distributed. Like any trait, some of individuals and races have more of it than others, so that it differs on quantitative and qualitative lines. It coincidentally mutated into existence, and was partly naturally selected, because it pays, in some ways, depending on the particulars, from an evolutionary perspective, to be able to have compassion for relatives, and to hate that which harms, even inanimate objects, and to love that which heals. However, the bigger the herd, the more artificial the morality. In a herd like ours, it's not something that's at all instinctual, it becomes cold, calculative, or upheld by custom/law, largely. Moral feelings are more possible when among family/friendships. Moral feelings can be overridden by unfulfilled sexual needs, or other needs, and vice versa, or by fear of retribution, political/religious domestication.

Quote :
I'm a minimalist as well, don't need much in my life.
Then we have some things in common.

Quote :
Once you live in "nothingness", you begin to realize truths about yourself that you never could have known beforehand.  Your thoughts are not a coincidence, not ironic.  There is purpose behind them.  They occur for a reason.  You remember this, not that, for a reason.  You are, precisely where you are, for a reason.  For specific causes, leading you to your moment.  And to the next moment, day, week, year.

I find these causes the most fascinating aspect of existence.  To understand the causes, is to begin to know thyself.
Nothingness is conducive to contemplation, reflecting on the self, and on the world.

Yeah, there are causes.. biological.. cultural, and uncovering these is what drives us forward.

But what do you think, am I the only one on this forum, who sees the minuses and pluses in everything, the futility in everything, I'll bet I'm not the only one.

What is Good, really?
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:14 pm

Divergense wrote:
I value, nothing.

Sure, I have needs, wants.

I eat and drink like anyone else.


I want to destroy everyone and everything, I don't know why.

I just have this overwhelming urge to kill.

Where did it come from?

It came from sex, not being able to fuck women, makes me want to kill.

I just want to kill.


Yeah but part of me doesn't really value anything, at all.


Self-worth - manhood doesn't come from f---ing.


Quote :
I desire things, sure, but is this the same as valuing them?

To me, valuing implies something more than just need or want, it implies, something absolute, or objective, or static about something.

There's nothing I can point to and say, this is good, but I can point to everything and say, it's all bad, somehow.

Why do you deserve to live according to you? Is there anything good there?

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Hrodeberto

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PostSubject: Re: No Values Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:14 pm

Æon wrote:
Your thoughts are not a coincidence, not ironic.  There is purpose behind them.  They occur for a reason.  You remember this, not that, for a reason.  You are, precisely where you are, for a reason.  For specific causes, leading you to your moment.  And to the next moment, day, week, year.

I find these causes the most fascinating aspect of existence.  To understand the causes, is to begin to know thyself.

One of my favorite comments on this forum. Who would've thought.
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:25 pm

Divergense wrote:
I want to destroy everyone and everything, I don't know why.

I read all of your comment, and I can relate to a feeling of devoid of values, and this desire to hunt, destroy, and so on, which is typical in males in certain situation, and I think I can explain your problem, and ways to manage it. From here I'm just going to assert some things, at times I'll substantiate, some of this will be pretty abstract, because it has to be. In the end you yourself will have to try it out, can check it with your intuition and prior knowledge and do with it what you will, either way I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.

I think it's obvious that you feel extraordinarily trapped, but more than that, and most critically, that you feel like you don't matter, and naturally, since you don't feel you matter - in the extreme - you want to make things outside yourself Not Matter - in the extreme. In more immediate sense, I think you're working a job that is shitty and perhaps of a highly redundant nature, making matters worse. Coupled with that I think you, like most any male, especially one who's feeling stuck, wants but can't get, or wants and does get, at least for a time but ultimately unsatisfactorily, dominion over females.

Your problem is fundamentally one of identity - more specifically, your identity is in shambles, rather than centered and harmonious - it's in shambles because of your situation and probably relationships, which is crushing you, your mind, your sense of self, self-worth. And consequently that you feel not like a man, identifying with higher things (and with that, having these things we call values), but more like a man-imal, because deep down that's all that jives with your current sense of self: your identity.

Consider the notion "I don't matter" in a more literal sense like, "I am atomizing into nothingness" - that's what's going on with your identity. Annihilation of self, naturally struggling to keep itself together, out comes the frustration, proportional to this disharmony, disturbance.

The relevance of these base drives & desires is that, when a man no longer feels like he matters in any particular, more complex, sophisticated, higher way, all that's left of his identity is the most base, primal, so, as a consequence, his mindset turns evermore toward, simply, kill/fuck/kill/fuck/kill/fuck and what's up with that hierarchy bee-otch!? It's in a fervor, desperate, and so becomes rageful. The ever-present factor of sex and challenges it can present can amplify the problems in these situations, it's one of the things that may need to be addressed, if it's not already.

So, how to fix this problem of identity and self-worth? In short, by doing things that reinforce a sense of "I matter," more poetically, simply, "I." That is, rediscovering Self - your Real, Genuine self, not a PERSONALITY or facade, and reconnecting with it, thereby transcending the angry, wounded man-imal within.

Think about what distinguishes and humanizes us:
Write
Sing
Self-control & meditation
Express how we feel, but also interpret more complex things which encapsulate how we feel
Expectations (conceive future) and standards, or have none at all
Making fun of yourself, specifically those "super serious" issues and whatnot

The music that one likes the most, is precisely that which is best encapsulating their feelings & identity at the time. But what's occurring on more fundamental level, is that through this, one feels AFFIRMED, validated, and so, like they (their feelings) MATTER. This is why music (the right kind for the time, one and one's particular issues) matters. It communicates back, that one, one's feelings most of all, are 'right' and that they matter.

Writing (actual writing, not computer) also serves to reinforce the self, that it exists and that it matters. I personally have written over 800 pages in the last 3 years. I have done this despite severe impediments, it works, but you have to take yourself at least a little seriously if you wanna make this a part of the norm; I can see some guys being fucktards about this.

And singing through tedious shit, or to break a deafening silence. Again, as with the all the others, works to re-humanize you and reinforce "I." Singing through laborious activity is rather therapeutic at times.

Self-control & meditation. Probably the most practical and powerful way to heal, and the only way to really reconnect with your genuine self, the self that has likely been, is being, lost, left behind. In deep meditative state one experiences a re-centering, harmonization of one's sense of self, of being connected (belonging) and less wounded the more, the better, one is able to do to it. Ideally sexual activity is limited as much as possible, but it is absolutely critical to have ways of offloading the energy (like the aforementioned), expressing the influxes of thoughts and feelings meaningfully, rather than unproductively or self-destructively. Meditation entails lying in bed, still, straight, with head and shoulders at a modest incline, regulating breathing; it's not rocket science; lights can be very bad, especially if they're direct and fully exposed; monitors are probably the worst; avoid such things as much as possible, especially at night as this is may severely fuck with your circadian rhythm and overall sanity. Too much sexual activity leads to dementia, mood issues and an inability to bond and have normal, natural, healthy relationships, since bonding and such requires presence of emotional sensitivity; over-stimulation (really just concerns the sexual kind, all else pales) is the primary reason why true bonding rarely happens anymore, namely in the West, where it's at its worst. Sensitization & desensitization largely involve the limbic system.

Meditation de-frags the mind.

If you're jacking off a lot then consider that: constant "sex"-for-nothing is the fast lane to depression and perhaps even the sole cause of a person's total devaluation of all values and feeling trapped. The original meaning of the word addict was synonymous with slave.

Self-imposed standards, and expectations (basically anxiety), are often absurd and impede and harm Self unnecessarily. Be careful, as sometimes we do this, are doing, this without even being aware. Best to avoid, in general, on principle.

Making fun of oneself, especially as regards key issues that one may be obsessing over, can help one chill out, come back down to Earth. For example, if you think you're a psycho, then find a way to mock yourself as such, like caricaturing yourself or something.

The ultimate goal is to achieve self-love - a reconnect with one's past and shedding of all the false stuff that came later (hint: one cannot love a false self) - and in turn real relationships with like-others. If you can't do this things for yourself, then perhaps for the little boy who was used and abused all that time. The values you can work out along the way, as you begin to re-center your identity; they will also work themselves out to some extent naturally as you work on things. Anyway practice makes perfect, just gotta keep at it, good luck.
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:16 pm

Divergense wrote:
I value, nothing.

Sure, I have needs, wants.

I eat and drink like anyone else.

I want to destroy everyone and everything, I don't know why.

I just have this overwhelming urge to kill.

Where did it come from?

It came from sex, not being able to fuck women, makes me want to kill.

I just want to kill.


Yeah but part of me doesn't really value anything, at all.

I desire things, sure, but is this the same as valuing them?

To me, valuing implies something more than just need or want, it implies, something absolute, or objective, or static about something.

There's nothing I can point to and say, this is good, but I can point to everything and say, it's all bad, somehow.

Everything in life has a double edge sword, every benefit has a cost, so why bother?

We, those of us who can think, measure the value of things in a little better, or a little worse, but the degrees are so slight, one begins to wonder, is there even any point?

Would not nothingness be just as good?

But I guess not, so we, or at least me and most people who can think, choose to press on anyway.

But for me, I've lost much of my vigor, my zest, my zeal.

I just barely care about anything, most people and things are more trouble than they're worth, so I prefer to be alone, with nothing but myself and my computer to keep me company.

I prefer barrenness and desolation to clutter.

I prefer silence to noise.

Slabs of concrete better suit my mood than a room with loads of decoration and ornamentation.

I hear people out there, talking about how they're going to do this or that, and I got caught up in it for a while, thinking I should do this or that too, but not anymore.

I'd rather just be who I am, and pursue nothing.

There's a lot to do already, in nothing, nothing is already a lot.

Just surviving is already a lot, working, drinking, eating, why do people want to do so much?

What is there to see, what is there to do?

It's just more of the same, more rotting carcasses, more problems, more pain mixed with pleasure.

Reality is happening here/now, and the further you dv8 from here/now, the more lost and confused you get.

This is it, this is as good as it gets.

It's not going to get much better than this, so long as you have a roof over your head and food in your belly, that's already a lot, that's already all there is, really.

Don't get so down on yourself, Diver.

I knew a kid one time, who was just like you. He always thought of the worst, but one day, he snapped out of it, improved himself. You just need to get in the habit of pro-activity and things will come together. Life is too beautiful to waste.
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Hrodeberto

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PostSubject: Re: No Values Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:10 pm

Zara wrote:
Divergense wrote:
I value, nothing.

Sure, I have needs, wants.

I eat and drink like anyone else.

I want to destroy everyone and everything, I don't know why.

I just have this overwhelming urge to kill.

Where did it come from?

It came from sex, not being able to fuck women, makes me want to kill.

I just want to kill.


Yeah but part of me doesn't really value anything, at all.

I desire things, sure, but is this the same as valuing them?

To me, valuing implies something more than just need or want, it implies, something absolute, or objective, or static about something.

There's nothing I can point to and say, this is good, but I can point to everything and say, it's all bad, somehow.

Everything in life has a double edge sword, every benefit has a cost, so why bother?

We, those of us who can think, measure the value of things in a little better, or a little worse, but the degrees are so slight, one begins to wonder, is there even any point?

Would not nothingness be just as good?

But I guess not, so we, or at least me and most people who can think, choose to press on anyway.

But for me, I've lost much of my vigor, my zest, my zeal.

I just barely care about anything, most people and things are more trouble than they're worth, so I prefer to be alone, with nothing but myself and my computer to keep me company.

I prefer barrenness and desolation to clutter.

I prefer silence to noise.

Slabs of concrete better suit my mood than a room with loads of decoration and ornamentation.

I hear people out there, talking about how they're going to do this or that, and I got caught up in it for a while, thinking I should do this or that too, but not anymore.

I'd rather just be who I am, and pursue nothing.

There's a lot to do already, in nothing, nothing is already a lot.

Just surviving is already a lot, working, drinking, eating, why do people want to do so much?

What is there to see, what is there to do?

It's just more of the same, more rotting carcasses, more problems, more pain mixed with pleasure.

Reality is happening here/now, and the further you dv8 from here/now, the more lost and confused you get.

This is it, this is as good as it gets.

It's not going to get much better than this, so long as you have a roof over your head and food in your belly, that's already a lot, that's already all there is, really.

Don't get so down on yourself, Diver.

I knew a kid one time, who was just like you. He always thought of the worst, but one day, he snapped out of it, improved himself. You just need to get in the habit of pro-activity and things will come together. Life is too beautiful to waste.

What's beautiful about life: the challenging, unchallenging or both?
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:59 pm

Everyone has values, principles, and morals.
Everyone has a philosophy...whether adopted or as a result of his own efforts.

And still, not all are equal, in substance, honesty, courage, lucidity, and objectivity, nor do they have an equal outcome.

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PostSubject: Re: No Values Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:09 pm

Supra-Aryanist, that's actually a tricky question; I don't believe in concrete, wholly-seperatated dichotomies, like black vs white. To say that one is only beautiful, would negate the interconnectivity of the binary.
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:10 am

That of which, is unchallenging, gradually rots away as it swirls in chaos. Unworthy of itself...

Beauty on the other-hand...

The only thing which can save a man's soul.
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PostSubject: Re: No Values Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:42 am

Stalagmites wrote:
That of which, is unchallenging, gradually rots away as it swirls in chaos. Unworthy of itself...

Beauty on the other-hand...

The only thing which can save a man's soul.

What sort of beauty are you referring to?
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