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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:00 pm

Forgot this.

Lyssa wrote:

Lastly Increase in chaos can also imply an increase in randomness, as even though regularity to some events can be predicted, while outcomes remain probabilistic, unpredictable, there's nothing to say these unpredictable outcomes don't reloop again into events disturbing those regularities.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic


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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:07 pm

Quote :
Lyssa wrote:
But if Order and structure itself was defined by him in terms of flow of energy, then I fail to see how anything he said was inaccurate;

Then let me help you.

Satyr wrote:
For, if order is a resistance, a rarity, in the norm towards entropy then its gradual decline would mean a proportional increase in the movement towards entropy."

If order is a resistance, order isn't flow.


Degrees. Nuance. No Absolutes.

If the world is a becoming - a flux, then the flow as a differential rate of relative becoming that resists the flux is a degree of order.

In other words, people with no grasp of his views wholesomely and simply nit-picking on bits and parts Get Off on accusing him of inaccuracy in the pose of pure academic interest, at the cost of simply having to put him down first to appear more knowledgeable than they are.
Losing credibility on one's own and then accusing the other of not taking it seriously and then taking the absence of response for having won the upper hand is s o  old news and a dull trolling.


Quote :

Quote :
In fact, I find it practising what it cautions Satyr of. Speaking of local entropic decrease here to make a case against feminization and calling it a glorifying a 'cult of pain' is It thinking of entropy in terms of structure alone, as in any mixed humanity, any kind of order is supposedly a sign of decreased entropy.

That's his logic, not mine. I was pointing out that according to his own logic, hedonism is order.

It is not his. And I have already provided his quote on synergy for whoever is interested. It is one's own error.

Does it matter if after I point out, the hedonists now try to deny and wriggle their way out after citing modernity as a case for local entropy decrease? Whatever.

Quote :
Quote :
When one affirms there is something positive in all things, and uses that to justify race-mixing, this kind of levelling - this kind of thermodynamic 'balance' - all superior resistance being dissisipated into the system till there is an equilibrium - this is not 'glorifying' a cult of pain but one more sign of the Drift towards max. entropy occuring even locally I would say. Objectivity is the Discernment that not every kind of 'order' is life-affirmative; the current system and the 'order' it promotes is very life-denying. Satyr has already commented on this;

We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

"Not at a risk of elimination" is a subjective ignorance of a very serious objective reality of what's occuring today.

Those who wish to remain in denial can remain so, but let them not accuse the other of glorifying a 'cult of pain' as an unscientific fact just because their limitations limit them from seeing it.

Quote :
In any case, there is absolutely nothing at all in the natural world that compels peoples of different races to mix. This is not a flow that is comparable to heat flow, which is spontaneous.

As if that's not the point Satyr has been saying over and over? We don't live in a natural world anymore... again, those cannot step outside of the artifices they are mired in stand little chance to exercise critical discernment, irrespective of whatever tales they convince themselves with.


Quote :
"Thank you for the use of the word tendency, dear."

Satyr wrote:
"If the other offers an explanation you did not think about say:
"Yes, THAT's what I meant by" it.



-

I know what stochastic is, and the wiki link doesn't contradict what I said.

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:21 pm

Aw, I was hoping to hear a comment on your vegetarianism.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:24 pm

phoneeee wrote:

If order is a resistance, order isn't flow.

Ha!!
Simple woman...all that exists is flow.


Let's use a image to explain for the simple minded:

A man enters a river.
The river is flowing down the mountainside.
Some parts faster others slower (locality).

Is the man static?
No.
Only in reference to the flowing river is the fluidity of the man's corporeality more static - not absolutely static...MORE static, or less fluid, to be precise.
The man's relative substance (re)acts to the flow of the river...he resists it.
He exerts energy to maintain his place...and if he wishes to move upstream he must multiply the energies being used.

Absolute order would be a state of no flow...and so non-existent.
Order, the singularity, is the absence of dimensions...of space/possibility.
It is one, encompassing a singular possibility which can be thought of as an absolute probability.

But, there is no absolute, and so even the conception of a singularity is of an incomplete, near-absolute.


Chaos is the expansion of space/possibility, veering towards the infinite.
Energies would be uniformly distributed eventually coming to a state of almost absolute uniformity....
Infinite possibility means an absence of probability.  

Probability is also a word for ordering, or pattern.
Something is more probable when there is a discernible pattern, an order, which makes it predictable.
Probability is a restriction of possibility....veering towards the absolute , as in absolute order, the singularity, which was explained.
Saying something is probable is saying that not all possibilities apply to it.

Randomness is the reverse.
Infinite possibilities...as in expanding space, where probabilities, ordering, slowly declines towards a state of uniformity - all possibilities becoming equally possible.

In my view it is this increasing state of possibilities which makes the emergence of new near-absolute singularities - new universes - possible.

How is chaos created...from a singularity towards expanding space/time multiplicities, tending towards uniformity?
Through the (inter)action of different levels of fluidity.
Different levels of fluidity (flux) being what we call different patterns, different rates of ordering - different types of matter/energy.
Interaction produces fiction, attrition.
A pattern loses a small part of its flow. This energy becomes a free-radical, so to speak.

And here lies the crux of the matter.
Does this energy cutting away from a pattern retain a lower level of fluidity, changing, in effect, its type through the interaction, or does some of it lose all pattern and become random energy free-floating in time/space, still interacting but lacking order?

I say both.
Some of the energy splintering off degrades in ordering, becoming another form of matter/energy...a different type of ordering...and some is reduced to pure chaos - randomness.
This slow accumulation of free-radical energies, lacking any pattern, are what is increasing chaos.
Particles seem to pop out of nothing and then vanish, because they cannot maintain any order.
In such a state life is impossible, because life depends on predictable patterns...and that's why we find them so damn attractive....beautiful, inspiring...delightful...and we long for that singularity in the past: we long for completion. It being a Death-wish.
The desire to be ONE and to be None are both death-wishes - nihilism.

In such a state no patterns would mean that nothing ordered would maintain itself for long.
No matter would exist.
Everything would become unpredictable energy interacting with no pattern...

But let's say randomness is not a fact...that chaos means increasing complexity.
Here interactivity would tend towards uniformity due to interaction.
All energy would eventually vibrate on the same wavelength...and be uniformly distributed.
This means no divergence would be possible, and divergence is required for life to emerge, contrary to what nihilistic morons think who worship the end of life.
With no divergence there is no evolution, no bone, no skin, no blood, no other species, no other matter, all is the same.

With no divergence there is no consciousness as there is nothing to be conscious of.
Consciousness is the perception of divergence.
The perception of similarity comes after the fact...
The mind sees a difference and then in that difference it perceives a similarity with another.
The mind must be other-than before it can perceive in the other a similarity.
Divergence is a precondition to the perception of similarity.

I first see other, then I see similarities between other and myself, or this other and that other...and I create categories.

Similarities are of degree, and not absolute. not even clones are absolutely alike...not even you are absolutely the same as you ten minutes ago.
Absolute similarity would be a description of the singularity of of the uniformity of chaos ...both different sides of the same nihilistic coin.

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:15 pm

Chaos is a double-edged razor: Order, Dharma, is managing to comprise of the unitarity and locality, flux, between construction-destruction, compression-rarefaction.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:54 pm

Hrodebert wrote:
Chaos is a double-edged razor: Order, Dharma, is managing to comprise of the unitarity and locality, flux, between construction-destruction, compression-rarefaction.
Although I barely know him, that sounds like something Super Aryan would say.

From Super Aryans profile:

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
Location: Intergalactic Space, where locality and unitarity become indistinguishable.
It seems you and him share similar views.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:06 pm

Divergense wrote:
Hrodebert wrote:
Chaos is a double-edged razor: Order, Dharma, is managing to comprise of the unitarity and locality, flux, between construction-destruction, compression-rarefaction.
Although I barely know him, that sounds like something Super Aryan would say.

From Super Aryans profile:

Super-aryanist wrote:
Location: Intergalactic Space, where locality and unitarity become indistinguishable.
It seems you and him share similar views.

Analogous with spatial-temporal.



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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:09 pm

I'm having trouble following your "subtle logic", forgive me.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:15 pm

Divergense wrote:
I'm having trouble following your "subtle logic", forgive me.

I typically don't get along with Canadians, eh; then again, I butt-heads with most people I encounter.
In any case, I do have a couple of alright mates there.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:35 pm

I typically don't pursue friendships with people, online or off.

However, if while philosophizing online, or whatever, I happen to meet someone with common hobbies/interests/goals/objectives, sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:46 pm

Divergense wrote:
I typically don't pursue friendships with people, online or off.

However, if while philosophizing online, or whatever, I happen to meet someone with common hobbies/interests/goals/objectives, sure.

As long as one remains true to one's true self, or follows with intention one's own path, then every passerby is a potential to understanding oneself and in effect metamorphosing.
Opportunism is a salient vehicle.

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:25 am

You'll notice I start a lot of sentences with "what I meant". That's a result of you adding meaning to my sentences that isn't there. Interpreting a person's writings is not the same as interpreting your thoughts into a person's writings. Be aware of that.

Lyssa wrote:

Degrees. Nuance. No Absolutes.

If the world is a becoming - a flux, then the flow as a differential rate of relative becoming that resists the flux is a degree of order.

It works as a metaphor. Only as a metaphor... one of limited effect.

Quote :

It is not his. And I have already provided his quote on synergy for whoever is interested. It is one's own error.

It is not his? Then whose  is this entire metaphor we're discussing?

Quote :

Does it matter if after I point out, the hedonists now try to deny and wriggle their way out after citing modernity as a case for local entropy decrease? Whatever.

As a direct response in the middle of a logical sequence of steps, started by someone else?
You are confused.

Quote :

"Not at a risk of elimination" is a subjective ignorance of a very serious objective reality of what's occuring today.

What I meant is there there is no authoritative act of genocide or eugenics happening against any ethnicity.
If it is elimination taking place, it is by people upon themselves, by their free will to do so.
Can't force pandas to fuck. I say let them fall. Nature at work.

Quote :

Quote :
In any case, there is absolutely nothing at all in the natural world that compels peoples of different races to mix. This is not a flow that is comparable to heat flow, which is spontaneous.

As if that's not the point Satyr has been saying over and over? We don't live in a natural world anymore... again, those cannot step outside of the artifices they are mired in stand little chance to exercise critical discernment, irrespective of whatever tales they convince themselves with.

What I meant was that racial mixing does not work the same as heat dissipation. Heat dissipation is natural and spontaneous, and effort is required to resist it. Racial mixing is dependent on the will of the participants and is not predictable under a law of nature. This is therefore a metaphor of limited effect.

Quote :

Quote :
"Thank you for the use of the word tendency, dear."

Satyr wrote:
"If the other offers an explanation you did not think about say:
"Yes, THAT's what I meant by" it.

What I meant is that by using the word tendency, you admit that this isn't a rule which applies to every situation, sparing me the trouble of pointing that out. My whole point with participating in this thread is to verify that the scientific facts of the laws of thermodynamics do not add factual authority to Satyr's thoughts. It's just a metaphor.

Nothing there to suggest that I agree or disagree with it.


Garbage dump wrote:


In other words, people with no grasp of his views wholesomely and simply nit-picking on bits and parts Get Off on accusing him of inaccuracy in the pose of pure academic interest, at the cost of simply having to put him down first to appear more knowledgeable than they are.
Losing credibility on one's own and then accusing the other of not taking it seriously and then taking the absence of response for having won the upper hand is s o  old news and a dull trolling.

Those who wish to remain in denial can remain so, but let them not accuse the other of glorifying a 'cult of pain' as an unscientific fact just because their limitations limit them from seeing it.

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:24 am

phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.

If you take a group of chimps, provide them with all the bananas they can eat and punish the individuals for being physically violent to each other then that does have an impact on the genetics. A massive one. Surprise, surprise setting the rules in an artificial way does impact selection and thereby genetics.

We see ethnicities dissolving. We also see health declining (and no, this is not about keeping unhealthy individuals alive with modern medicine).

Individuals being free to choose may be a moral standard for someone thinking within the liberal box. But who made them 'free' and who keeps them 'free' and 'free' from what?

The Ukraine is a good example to see that 'freedom' in action. When there is a government which got voted democratically into office and people start rioting in the streets and occupying government facilities, then that needs to be respected and the police should take the molotov cocktails to their faces and god forbid, fire even a single shot.
But when there is a protest against a not democratically elected government in the Ukraine and government buildings get occupied then.... then there is a military intervention with tanks, helicopters and rockets. And that's a necessary thing to ensure stability.

Could it be that this 'free' and 'freedom' is just an empty buzzword as part of a program to keep the crowd happily, blissfully, ignorant?
Free.... free to be brain dead, to be a zombie.

But you already knew all that - you are just trying to get a rise out of people, aren't you?!

Wink Wink Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:26 am

Quote :
You'll notice I start a lot of sentences with "what I meant". That's a result of you adding meaning to my sentences that isn't there. Interpreting a person's writings is not the same as interpreting your thoughts into a person's writings. Be aware of that.

Lyssa wrote:

Degrees. Nuance. No Absolutes.

If the world is a becoming - a flux, then the flow as a differential rate of relative becoming that resists the flux is a degree of order.

It works as a metaphor. Only as a metaphor... one of limited effect.

Quote :

It is not his. And I have already provided his quote on synergy for whoever is interested. It is one's own error.

It is not his? Then whose  is this entire metaphor we're discussing?

Quote :

Does it matter if after I point out, the hedonists now try to deny and wriggle their way out after citing modernity as a case for local entropy decrease? Whatever.

As a direct response in the middle of a logical sequence of steps, started by someone else?
You are confused.

Quote :

"Not at a risk of elimination" is a subjective ignorance of a very serious objective reality of what's occuring today.

What I meant is there there is no authoritative act of genocide or eugenics happening against any ethnicity.
If it is elimination taking place, it is by people upon themselves, by their free will to do so.
Can't force pandas to fuck. I say let them fall. Nature at work.

Quote :

Quote :
In any case, there is absolutely nothing at all in the natural world that compels peoples of different races to mix. This is not a flow that is comparable to heat flow, which is spontaneous.

As if that's not the point Satyr has been saying over and over? We don't live in a natural world anymore... again, those cannot step outside of the artifices they are mired in stand little chance to exercise critical discernment, irrespective of whatever tales they convince themselves with.

What I meant was that racial mixing does not work the same as heat dissipation. Heat dissipation is natural and spontaneous, and effort is required to resist it. Racial mixing is dependent on the will of the participants and is not predictable under a law of nature. This is therefore a metaphor of limited effect.

Quote :

Quote :
"Thank you for the use of the word tendency, dear."

Satyr wrote:
"If the other offers an explanation you did not think about say:
"Yes, THAT's what I meant by" it.

What I meant is that by using the word tendency, you admit that this isn't a rule which applies to every situation, sparing me the trouble of pointing that out. My whole point with participating in this thread is to verify that the scientific facts of the laws of thermodynamics do not add factual authority to Satyr's thoughts. It's just a metaphor.

Nothing there to suggest that I agree or disagree with it.


Garbage dump wrote:


In other words, people with no grasp of his views wholesomely and simply nit-picking on bits and parts Get Off on accusing him of inaccuracy in the pose of pure academic interest, at the cost of simply having to put him down first to appear more knowledgeable than they are.
Losing credibility on one's own and then accusing the other of not taking it seriously and then taking the absence of response for having won the upper hand is s o  old news and a dull trolling.

Those who wish to remain in denial can remain so, but let them not accuse the other of glorifying a 'cult of pain' as an unscientific fact just because their limitations limit them from seeing it.




How serious it becomes when its masks are torn.
Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:42 am

Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.


c. Heathen.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:43 am

Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.

If you take a group of chimps, provide them with all the bananas they can eat and punish the individuals for being physically violent to each other then that does have an impact on the genetics. A massive one. Surprise, surprise setting the rules in an artificial way does impact selection and thereby genetics.

We see ethnicities dissolving. We also see health declining (and no, this is not about keeping unhealthy individuals alive with modern medicine).

Individuals being free to choose may be a moral standard for someone thinking within the liberal box. But who made them 'free' and who keeps them 'free' and 'free' from what?

The Ukraine is a good example to see that 'freedom' in action. When there is a government which got voted democratically into office and people start rioting in the streets and occupying government facilities, then that needs to be respected and the police should take the molotov cocktails to their faces and god forbid, fire even a single shot.
But when there is a protest against a not democratically elected government in the Ukraine and government buildings get occupied then.... then there is a military intervention with tanks, helicopters and rockets. And that's a necessary thing to ensure stability.

Could it be that this 'free' and 'freedom' is just an empty buzzword as part of a program to keep the crowd happily, blissfully, ignorant?
Free.... free to be brain dead, to be a zombie.

But you already knew all that - you are just trying to get a rise out of people, aren't you?!

Wink Wink Wink

No, I am not trying to get a rise out of people. What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do Smile
Put this post in one of the race threads.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:56 am

phoneutria wrote:
Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.

If you take a group of chimps, provide them with all the bananas they can eat and punish the individuals for being physically violent to each other then that does have an impact on the genetics. A massive one. Surprise, surprise setting the rules in an artificial way does impact selection and thereby genetics.

We see ethnicities dissolving. We also see health declining (and no, this is not about keeping unhealthy individuals alive with modern medicine).

Individuals being free to choose may be a moral standard for someone thinking within the liberal box. But who made them 'free' and who keeps them 'free' and 'free' from what?

The Ukraine is a good example to see that 'freedom' in action. When there is a government which got voted democratically into office and people start rioting in the streets and occupying government facilities, then that needs to be respected and the police should take the molotov cocktails to their faces and god forbid, fire even a single shot.
But when there is a protest against a not democratically elected government in the Ukraine and government buildings get occupied then.... then there is a military intervention with tanks, helicopters and rockets. And that's a necessary thing to ensure stability.

Could it be that this 'free' and 'freedom' is just an empty buzzword as part of a program to keep the crowd happily, blissfully, ignorant?
Free.... free to be brain dead, to be a zombie.

But you already knew all that - you are just trying to get a rise out of people, aren't you?!

Wink Wink Wink

No, I am not trying to get a rise out of people. What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do Smile
Put this post in one of the race threads.

Ever consider that maybe your identity as a mongrel is clouding your judgment on this topic, Dear?
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:01 pm

We all have our biases. Take these humble sentences for what they're worth.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:29 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.

If you take a group of chimps, provide them with all the bananas they can eat and punish the individuals for being physically violent to each other then that does have an impact on the genetics. A massive one. Surprise, surprise setting the rules in an artificial way does impact selection and thereby genetics.

We see ethnicities dissolving. We also see health declining (and no, this is not about keeping unhealthy individuals alive with modern medicine).

Individuals being free to choose may be a moral standard for someone thinking within the liberal box. But who made them 'free' and who keeps them 'free' and 'free' from what?

The Ukraine is a good example to see that 'freedom' in action. When there is a government which got voted democratically into office and people start rioting in the streets and occupying government facilities, then that needs to be respected and the police should take the molotov cocktails to their faces and god forbid, fire even a single shot.
But when there is a protest against a not democratically elected government in the Ukraine and government buildings get occupied then.... then there is a military intervention with tanks, helicopters and rockets. And that's a necessary thing to ensure stability.

Could it be that this 'free' and 'freedom' is just an empty buzzword as part of a program to keep the crowd happily, blissfully, ignorant?
Free.... free to be brain dead, to be a zombie.

But you already knew all that - you are just trying to get a rise out of people, aren't you?!

Wink Wink Wink

No, I am not trying to get a rise out of people. What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do Smile
Put this post in one of the race threads.

A law founded upon an irrevocable consistency observed in the natural/physical world applies to everything in that natural world.
Why is that you believe that characterological disposition of certain species are exempt, in a vacuum, from the rest of the universe?
Why is it, as you insubstantially purport, that racial differentiation is deemed exclusive to spiritual and physico-chemical forces?
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:14 pm

Because the laws of thermodynamics are about heat transfer.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:07 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Because the laws of thermodynamics are about heat transfer.

You mean heat energy. It is vector; has directionality.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:54 pm

Yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:18 am

Lyssa wrote:
Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.


c. Heathen.

Race to be scrapped from swedish legislation

I wish they did that in the US. That's effectively remove affirmative action from law.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:26 am

Phoneutria wrote:
What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

I disagree.
Chimpanzees have a higher body temperature than humans, and blacks have a higher body temperature than whites.

Quote :
The primates form a somewhat heterogenous group in regard to body temperature.
Thus, in the bulk of the species the temperature ranges daily from 37.5 to 39 degrees C whereas the ordinary range in man is 36.5 to 37.5 degrees C.

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Man 37 degrees C
Baboon 38.1 degrees C

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There are numerous other qualities such as bone density, muscle fiber, heart rate and gestation period that can be measured on a gradient scale suggesting that entropic processes are possibly at work in evolution.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:26 am

Recidivist wrote:
Phoneutria wrote:
What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

I disagree.
Chimpanzees have a higher body temperature than humans, and blacks have a higher body temperature than whites.  

Quote :
The primates form a somewhat heterogenous group in regard to body temperature.
Thus, in the bulk of the species the temperature ranges daily from 37.5 to 39 degrees C whereas the ordinary range in man is 36.5 to 37.5 degrees C.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1377087?uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21104457240937

Quote :
Man 37 degrees C
Baboon 38.1 degrees C

http://www.aquaticape.org/bodytemp.html

There are numerous other qualities such as bone density, muscle fiber, heart rate and gestation period that can be measured on a gradient scale suggesting that entropic processes are possibly at work in evolution.

Entropic processes are at work in evolution when it comes to preserving and dissipating heat in order to better suit the needs of the environment.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, though. Are you saying that species fit for surviving in arid environments contribute more to entropy than species fit for surviving in frozen environments?

Sure.

But then, humans have a higher body heat dissipation rate than mice, so I don't think that you can extract any valuable evolutionary insight from that observation.

If this is not the point you were making, would you mind elaborating?
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:52 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.


c. Heathen.

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Maybe they actually believe the bs they talk themselves. Or they try to diffuse the racial groups of immigrants to better integrate them into the mimetic modern paradigm. Probably both.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:57 pm

phono wrote:
We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do  Smile 

I insist that we don't shoot you in the foot.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:58 pm

The only laws that I can think of which would involve "race" in the wording would be laws against racial discrimination and other laws regarding providing some sort of advantage to minorities, so if that link was posted with the intention to show that the white majority of Sweden is in any way threatened by this move, I do not see that at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:59 pm

Anfang wrote:
phono wrote:
We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do  Smile 

I insist that we don't shoot you in the foot.

Thank you, dear. After all, we have been there, haven't we?
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Then there are those unwritten laws which call racists and hater, anyone who reminds morons that without races evolution does not work, and that species do not just emerge, suddenly, as if God made them out of nothing,....you know just because.

You know the type, dear.
The type who thinks anyone who is honest in a world of duplicitous cunts is a bitter sad old man...because healthy men participate in the bullshit as if it does not matter.

Let's agree to disagree for the children, dear; for that millions of retards who will be protected from the world's cruelty, from its "bullies", and will grow to spread his retarded genes forever more...amen.
you know the type, dear.
The one who will think he survived because we was worth it, and not because the laws protected him from his own stupidity.

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:24 pm

Unwritten laws are laws of societal coercion.
This, once again, to me, falls under an effect by people upon themselves, by their free will to do so.
Quote :
I say let them fall. Nature at work.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:44 pm

Free = Independence

Will = to lack, Dependence.

When you explain how one can will, what one lacks, needs, desires, wants, and be independently dependent, you might impress me.

What of coercion with no alternative?
Is this not totalitarianism?
Shall we seek refuge in hypocrisy, and repeat the lie, though we think it ridiculous?
You don't see the cost there; the risk?

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:12 pm

Satyr wrote:
Then there are those unwritten laws which call racists and hater, anyone who reminds morons that without races evolution does not work, and that species do not just emerge, suddenly, as if God made them out of nothing,....you know just because.

You know the type, dear.
The type who thinks anyone who is honest in a world of duplicitous cunts is a bitter sad old man...because healthy men participate in the bullshit as if it does not matter.

Let's agree to disagree for the children, dear; for that millions of retards who will be protected from the world's cruelty, from its "bullies", and will grow to spread his retarded genes forever more...amen.
you know the type, dear.
The one who will think he survived because we was worth it, and not because the laws protected him from his own stupidity.

A culture which must use laws instead of explanation in order to keep order has already conceded to failing.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:40 pm

[quote]
Satyr wrote:
Free = Independence

Will = to lack, Dependence.

When you explain how one can will, what one lacks, needs, desires, wants, and be independently dependent, you might impress me.

Western law is such that it gives all equal rights and freedoms to pursue the whims of their will, so long as those whims do not impede upon the rights of others.

Quote :

What of coercion with no alternative?
Is this not totalitarianism?

No such thing. To the strong, to stand their ground. To the weak, to fall.

Quote :

Shall we seek refuge in hypocrisy, and repeat the lie, though we think it ridiculous?
You don't see the cost there; the risk?    

Of what hypocrisy do you speak?
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:42 pm

phoneee wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Free = Independence

Will = to lack, Dependence.

When you explain how one can will, what one lacks, needs, desires, wants, and be independently dependent, you might impress me.

Western law is such that it gives all equal rights and freedoms to pursue the whims of their will, so long as those whims do not impede upon the rights of others.

And so free-will is a self-contradicting concept.

The "right" to exist in your own reality is sheltering.
To pursue your whims is free, when it cares not for the repercussions, because it is protected from them.  


phoneee wrote:
Of what hypocrisy do you speak?

The lie of equal respectability, value, sensibility, taste, intelligence, potentials; the lie of valuing honesty, and the lie of rights, and or deserving.

Rights are given when you've paid...
The payment is what moderns ignore, or minimize.
The right is to remain as childlike as possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:20 pm

This conversation is out of scope. Feel free to post it in one of the race threads.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:35 pm

Following excerpts are of a leftist-sociology that I do not identify with.

But I post it to give an idea of a Thermodynamic Approach to social systems.


Quote :
"The human traditions of philosophy and religions are expressions of the human pursuit of salvation. If the constant theme of philosophies and religions -- the Source of existence experienced as God, Being, the Infinite, the Boundless, the Unborn -- is conditioned by the human memory of the first law of thermodynamics, then human salvation -- always in terms of the return to this Source -- is the attempt to negate the second law of thermodynamics with the first law -- the theme of all symbolic expressions that constitute all philosophies and all religions. While the first law promises Eternity (because of necessary conservation), the second law ordains necessary dissolution and meaningless, finite, and temporary existence enslaved to dissipative functions (eating and defecating) and which it has thus been human yearning to negate. This negation is the spiritual meaning of life. Since the first step in such negation always consists in the recognition of the source, and therefore the structure, of existence, it is frequently spoken of as the "Universe becoming conscious of itself through human consciousness": the anthropic principle. But one has to remember that the spiritual meaning of life does not exhaust itself in this Self-Consciousness, but in the salvation that results from this Self-Consciousness.

It will be shown that "power", understood truly, is a function of consumption, and so of the second law.1 The second law defines the human experience of time or temporality, and power/ consumption is thus a phenomenon of temporal nature. Temporality (along with spatiality, its concomitant) has always been identified as the origin of evil and suffering: that much has remained constant throughout history. Amidst the passing away of time, certain enlightened souls of the human species have, from time to time, searched for and recognized the a-temporal , the eternal lying behind the coming-into-being-and-passing-away of the temporal things; that is, they have found that negation of time which promises salvation from the destructive power of time which renders everything meaningless. That negation is of course the first law of thermodynamics -- that despite entropy increase, really nothing changes at all: the ultimate fact of Conservation. These enlightened souls spoke of their experience of this salvational conservation in systems of symbols called philosophy or in myths called (testamental) religions. The nature of negation thus will also remain the same. What will change, as said, is the content of the formulation, from myth to science.

But this thermodynamic explanation of the origin of Life tells us that life evolves as the vehicle of Nature for dissipating order, and so that the meaning of Life in general is mindless consumption (of order: foodstuffs) and defecation (into disorder: waste), which ultimately means the destruction of the environment. (In fact, since it is supposed to be a thermodynamic dissipative structure, the goal of any life is ultimately defecation, and it is only to defecate that life consumes at all.) That an organism does its job so well and destroys its environment, killing itself in the process, has already happened before -- not just a peculiarity of the human species: the most famous being the cyanobacteria that destroyed the CO2 atmosphere of the Earth with their oxygenic waste some 1.5 billion years ago, causing the whole-sale extinction of anaerobic life-forms predominant in the first half of the Earth's history, but incidentally creating the oxygen-rich atmosphere that made us -- the multicellular eukaryotic organisms -- possible today.

This is the material meaning of life. Life, or organisms, are forms of open dissipative structures, and the meaning of life is defecation and, through it, the possible destruction of its environment."

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"Good is hard and evil easy, as discussed, because of the statistical situation that governs the formation of order. Hence, in relation to the definition of virtue (h areth) as the "mean state" (mesothV), which, we'll show, means really the most ordered state, Aristotle (The Nicomachean Ethics, II. vi. 14 - 15.) has also mentioned that this state of our disposition (exiV) is the most difficult to achieve because:

eti to men amartanein pollacwV estin.... to de katorqoun monacwV: dio kai to men raidion to de calepon, raidion men to apotucein tou skopou, calepon de to epitucein....
esqloi men gar aplwV, pantodapwV de kakoi
Error [missing the mark] is multiform, but success is one way only: which is why [to fail] is easy but [to succeed] is hard; easy to miss the target and difficult to hit it....

Goodness is simple, badness manifold.
That thermodynamics, or the statistical situation governing order-formation, clearly explains why this is so immediately demonstrates that Aristotle's virtue, anything good, or whatever successful endeavor, all consists in order-formation which is hard because it is statistically the least likely configuration. In the figure below, for example, total order (with all whites on one side and all blacks on the other) has only one possible form (given rotation), whereas the disorderly state comes in many configurations and so is the far more frequent outcome:

(Pythagoras...)

o o | * *        o * | * o    o o | o *
o o | * *        * o | o *    * o | * o
o o | * *        o o | * o    * * | o *
o o | * *        * * | o *    o o | * *
o o | * *        o * | * *    * o | * *
o o | * *        o o | * o    * o | o o    

    1                1            2             3   ...etc.            
low entropy      high entropy
("virtue")          (bad)

At the tribal, pre-ethical stage, goodness and badness are represented by good and bad gods, and (religious) taboo is a system that preserves order (whether of society or of the cosmos) by forbidding things that cause the dissolution of order (which not only include the typically evil things, but also the unscrupulous use of originally good things). Since order or what is good, just like life in general, is "an island of low entropy in an increasingly random universe", hence precious and always endangered, it must be protected with special caution and handled and reared with care.

From this point on the understanding of order (what is good) and dis-order (the dissolution of order or what is bad) begins evolving during the First Axial on two different paths. On the one hand, on the path toward the second mode of salvation, everything is interiorized. Order becomes the order of the "soul" (the mind), i.e. its concentration and stabilization away from the equilibrium state of the exterior material world, and dis-order means such equilibrium of the mind with the material world (the "wandering of the mind" among the material things in the world)."

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:45 pm

Coercive speech modulation by trying to mold the category of discussion.

In this thread, not only do we see the attempt at Modern Schizoid Splitting of metaphysics and physics just like it tried to split its Body and Mind in the Surrender thread via its nihilistic cynicism, but even more Modern is the attempt to Relativize healthy Racialism against the victim's Affirmative Action.

The logic of saying removing any mention of Race from law as solving the victim morality of affirmative action is akin to d63 suggesting capitalist ecological damage can be slowed down by accelerating Feminization and sterilizing, removing all masculine aggression.

Whatever.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:03 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Entropic processes are at work in evolution when it comes to preserving and dissipating heat in order to better suit the needs of the environment.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, though. Are you saying that species fit for surviving in arid environments contribute more to entropy than species fit for surviving in frozen environments?

What I'm doing is treating species as evolutionary engines, having some initial condition of low entropy, but gradually dissipating energy and information over time.

Each reproduction of the DNA potentially increases entropy in the form of random mutations, genetic drift and replication errors. One can also take into account damage to the DNA from the local environment.
The species as a whole experiences increasing disorder.

Different races do not all exist in the same state of entropy, and I think it's not possible entirely to differentiate the affects of entropy from what we call evolution.

Although the individual organism can repair itself in early life and appears not to be subject to the aging process, this is only because of the excess energy stored in the body, more efficient transfer of food into energy, and the healthy, ordered state of the DNA, but this begins to wane in adulthood, and the inevitable aging process (entropy) sets in.
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PostSubject: Re: Thermodynamics and Entropy Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:17 pm

Another model: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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