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Æon
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PostSubject: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySat Sep 27, 2014 3:58 pm

To Satyr, and only Satyr,


Chaos is Pi (π).

The circumference (C) of a circle is its diameter (D) multiplied by pi (π), C=Dπ. Pi represents randomness. Because humans cannot understand pi as a rational number. It literally represents nonsense. Humans generally use whole, rational numbers. Rational numbers "make sense" of the world. Humans use numbers to make sense of the world. Numbers are measurement. Measurement is science. Scientific data and information represents human knowledge. However pi runs counter to all this. The idea and concept of chaos, represents the "unknown". Chaos is Unknowledge. Chaos is what is impossible to know, by definition. Pi is defined as an infinite, random number. Any subsequent digit of pi, as a decimal, is impossible to predict. Therefore π represents chaos, the unknown.


Order is a pattern.

All cognitively evolved organisms develop a brain, central nervous system, or "neural network" of neurological, synaptic, chemical and biological connections. Thus every organism is a "machine" insofar as its biology and composition represents a unique system. No two brains are exactly alike (identical) as no two bodies are as well. Every organism is unique, at least, by perspective. No perspective is the same as another in 'Timespace' (all dimensions). Because nanoseconds passby, annihilating the idea of static "Moments" in time. Time is an interpretation of (cognitively evolved) perspective. As such, every individual cognition (perspective) represents a "pattern creating" machine. Because the purpose of the brain organism is to perceive, store, recall, and project patterns.

The more 'intelligent' an organism is, the more, and rarer its pattern status is.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySat Sep 27, 2014 5:24 pm

Æon wrote:
To Satyr, and only Satyr,


Chaos is Pi (π).

The circumference (C) of a circle is its diameter (D) multiplied by pi (π), C=Dπ.  Pi represents randomness.  Because humans cannot understand pi as a rational number.  It literally represents nonsense.  Humans generally use whole, rational numbers.  Rational numbers "make sense" of the world.  Humans use numbers to make sense of the world.  Numbers are measurement.  Measurement is science.  Scientific data and information represents human knowledge.  However pi runs counter to all this.  The idea and concept of chaos, represents the "unknown".  Chaos is Unknowledge.  Chaos is what is impossible to know, by definition.  Pi is defined as an infinite, random number. Any subsequent digit of pi, as a decimal, is impossible to predict.  Therefore π represents chaos, the unknown.


Order is a pattern.

All cognitively evolved organisms develop a brain, central nervous system, or "neural network" of neurological, synaptic, chemical and biological connections.  Thus every organism is a "machine" insofar as its biology and composition represents a unique system.  No two brains are exactly alike (identical) as no two bodies are as well.  Every organism is unique, at least, by perspective.  No perspective is the same as another in 'Timespace' (all dimensions).  Because nanoseconds passby, annihilating the idea of static "Moments" in time.  Time is an interpretation of (cognitively evolved) perspective.  As such, every individual cognition (perspective) represents a "pattern creating" machine.  Because the purpose of the brain organism is to perceive, store, recall, and project patterns.

The more 'intelligent' an organism is, the more, and rarer its pattern status is.

Then send him a PM, faggot.
Only quantity, inorganic, can be be culled equal, proportional, but nonetheless, insofar as it is, only approximated.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyMon Sep 29, 2014 2:19 am

To Satyr, and only Satyr,

Every thought, belief, and memory comprises a neurological pattern within the brain. This is why perspective is always unique and never repeated. Memories are only ever approximations of a pattern. Because to repeat a pattern (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,etc.) requires energy. Simple patterns are simplest to remember and recall. There is a universality inherent in simple memes or experiences. A child can make sense out of somethings, but not others.

The neurological framework (metaphysics) of every organism exists to aid that particular organism, and if not, then most likely to aid the specie representing the organism. So even if an organism is unfit individually, then it may still have a purpose to the overall specie as a whole. Therefore the brain does not exist to hinder individuals, and even under an exception that it did, would not exist to hinder an overall specie. Therefore a collection of memories (patterns) across an entire specie, exists to aid the specie in survival, reproduction, and thriving.

This is called culture, representing a general type of social order. In one culture, certain thoughts (patterns) are accepted, welcomed, and repeated. In another culture, that same idea would be rejected and shunned.

Ideas will appear ordered (repeated) in one society, yet chaotic (random) in another.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyThu Jun 13, 2019 4:10 pm

Camus, Albert wrote:
The law of moderation equally well extends to all the contradictions of rebellious thought. The real is not entirely rational, nor is the rational entirely real. As we have seen in regard to surrealism, the desire for unity not only demands that everything should be rational. It also wishes that the irrational should be sacrificed. One cannot say that nothing has any meaning, because in doing so one affirms a value sanctified by an opinion; nor that everything has a meaning, because the word everything has no meaning for us. The irrational imposes limits on the rational, which, in its turn, gives it moderation.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySat Jun 22, 2019 10:25 am

Energy is not a 'thing' though man can only conceptualize it as a singularity.
energy implies dynamic movement/momentum, i.e., interactivity.
Order/Chaos do not differ as concepts but as types of energies.
Order means energy with a repeating consistency - an oscillating pattern.
I've explained what this 'oscillation' implies elsewhere.
Chaos - randomness - means energy with no repeating consistency - ergo unpredictable - and therefore unable to unify into balanced ephemeral unities that can be perceptible by our feeble senses.
Life evolved to perceive order, because it depends on order to survive. For it, all is ordered, because all it can perceive is so. This is comforting even if said order may be threatening - at least it is perceived and knowable.

But chaos is still involved....and this is why conciousness evolved...to deal with the unexpected - the effect of random energies upon ordered energies.
This is the extent of choice, i.e., [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. A mental reaction to what is unexpected, unforeseeable.

chaos makes free-will not only possible but necessary.
A plant cannot adjust, because it is forced to abide by the slower reactivity of trial/error - survival of the fittest - exploiting mutations that arise, through chaos/order interactivity. But sophisticated organisms, such as mammals, have evolved a wicked adjustment to random effects.

Given that these effect are inconspicuous - subtle - imperceptible, they can never reach a level of perceptibility, so we experience chaos as subtle shifts in what is otherwise consistent.
Therefore, history repeats, but never in absolutely the exact same way. So 'eternal return' does not mean you relive the exact same life, eternally.

The average moron has to understand it as an absolute, so as to comfort itself - so it adopts the Abrahamic concept of eternal after-life....after....life.

Buddhists do not...but they believe in reincarnation....of some identifying essence - soul/spirit - and their goal is to never be reborn again - Nihilistic.
A hatred of existence, also expressed in their ascetic practices, as a withdrawal form life - existential fatigue - and not as a means to become more durable in the engagement with life - Hellenic asceticism.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySat Jun 22, 2019 10:42 am

Even man's word 'infinity' implies an enclosure - the name reduces the concept to a level of abstract hat can be processed - it reduces it to a noumenon, which is then taken literally and not as what it is, a representation.
and so the majority refuse to even attempt conceptualizing what fills them with dread, so they cannot believe in infinity but only ni the finite - not an open ended cosmos, but an enclosed uni-verse.

But what does 'eternal return' imply if not infinity?
return of what?
Not you, or me...but of existence - the interacting energies. These go in cycles, that are never exactly the same.
Multiverses.
One birthing the next, one funnelling into the next.
Life is not a universal motive - it is not guaranteed, nor does it emerge in all epochs, or in every cosmic cycle.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue Jul 02, 2019 4:37 pm

If we properly define order and chaos we can make sense of how we experience time - as linear.

the Big Bang is a metaphor for the nearest approach to absolute order, that never finalized.
We can visual it with the Taoist Yin/Yang symbol - a duality, where near-absolute order contained a flaw, disorder, or randomness.
We owe existence to this "flaw".

There is no actual; flaw, because there is no absolute other than I the human mid...which then demands that it be present outside of it - it be a universal truth.
This is the foundation of our conventional definition of Nihilism. Nihilists claim that a universe void of a omnipotent, omniscient, one-god, void of universal morality, and purpose and meaning, is a 'negative'...demanding that their own mental abstractions be external truths.

Linear time is the experience of a movement towards absolute chaos which life, as an organization dependent no order, experiences as friction - need/suffering.
This implies that the movement will also not finalize as absolute randomness, but is a movement - process  towards. this we call linear-time.
Now we know why God, is a determining immutable past, with a flaw which is justified away by Abrahamism.

We can now perceive our present state as an intermediate stage in the process.....meaning order is still dominant, and decreasing.
We as organisms - ordering entities dependent on order perceiving order, needing order, worshipping order - can only perceive chaos through its effect on order.
So the Bell curve distribution is partly a consequence of random energies interacting with patterned energies - i.e., ordered energies - and the distribution is still relatively clustered around a median point in space/time, representing the near-absolute point of the Big Bang.
When man studies existence he can only do so through what he can perceive, which is matter/energies of order - patterned.
So, man can study chaos through a coin-toss - for example - which is made of metal, a pattern we name to distinguish it from other patterns, with a particular resonance, i.e., vibration/ oscillation, frequency, velocity etc.  

As chaos increases in space/time this distribution curve will widen, tending towards a uniform distribution./...which is exactly what one would expect with randomness.
Absolute-Randomness means all that is possible is equally so - to put it in a Heidegger context, chaos is a decrease of probabilities meaning uniformity of possibilities.  
Possibility = space.

So infinite space means absolute randomness - uniformity of possibilities.
This is a state where matter/energy as we know it, is impossible, ergo life is also impossible, because order is probability - restriction/limitation of the possible.
Order is reliable, consistent, repeating, predictable etc.
Chaos, properly defined as randomness and not complexity, is the opposite.
Both are theoretical, because, as I often say, absolutes are non-existent....they are non-existence - negation of existence.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue Jul 02, 2019 6:36 pm

What meaning does order have without chaos? The same 'meaning' as a male with no female....virtue with no vice...darkness with no light.
What value does 'love' and loyalty have if all deserve it, and it si a universal 'truth' - a one-god? A whore's love is common....the word for 'whore' for the ancient Greeks was koine {κοινη}....common, shared.
A description of a singularity, where differentiation is an illusion.
Underneath it all it's all the same.
All is uniform.
Divergence is superficial.
The ideals of the herd, finding in uniformity a confusion for the predators that annoy it and make it anxious.

What does 'chaos as complexity' insinuate, if not an occult order?

Do we know why zebras have stripes?
So that when in mass, galloping across the savannah, they can confuse the colour blind predators....creating a wall of undifferentiated flesh and whining a-loga (a-logos) - equus.....a herd of uniformity.
These herd psychotics, fancy themselves 'free-spirits, and followers of Nietzsche and his discretions of the herd-psychology in Abrahamism....via the Christian variant.

Like the current worshippers of Jesus, who blaspheme by idolizing him, deifying him, and constructing a church in his name.
The herd always interprets reality in herd contexts.


So desperate that a few interpret it so extraordinarily, so absolutely other-worldly, that their desperation shows I their hyperbole, over-compensating for their underlying herd heart.
So desperate to seem different form the hrrd that their anxiety exposes their spirit clearly.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue Jul 02, 2019 9:33 pm

Dugin, Alexander wrote:
APPENDIX II
The Metaphysics of Chaos
Modern European philosophy began with the concept of logos and the logical order of being. For over two thousand years, this concept became fully exhausted. All the potentialities and the principles laid in this logocentric way of thinking have by now been thoroughly explored, exposed and abandoned by philosophers.
However, the problem of chaos and the nature of chaos was neglected and put aside from the very beginning of this philosophy. The only philosophy we know at present is the philosophy of logos. But chaos is something opposite to logos, its absolute alternative.

The Fourth Political Theory

Dugin, Alexander wrote:
The term ‘chaos’ is used here in a metaphorical manner. In modern science we are continuing to deal with an essentially logocentric manner of exploring reality. So the ‘chaos’ here is no more than a dissipative structure of logos, the last result of its decay, fall, and decomposition. Modern science is dealing, not with something other than logos, but with a kind of post-logos, or ex-Logos: logos in the state of ultimate dissolution and regression. The process of the final destruction and dissipation of logos is taken here for ‘chaos’.
In reality, though, it has nothing to do with chaos as such, with chaos in the original Greek sense of the term. It is rather a kind of utmost confusion. René Guénon has called the era we are living through now an era of confusion.
‘Confusion’ means the state of being that both runs parallel to order and precedes it. Thus, we should make a clear distinction between two different concepts. On one hand we have the modern concept of chaos that represents post-order, or a mixture of contradictory fragments of being without any unity and order, linked amongst themselves by highly sophisticated post-logical correspondences and conflicts. Gilles Deleuze has called this phenomena a ‘non-co-possible system composed by the multitude of the monads’ (using the concept of monads and copossibility introduced by Leibniz),[299] becoming for Deleuze the ‘nomads’.
Deleuze describes postmodernity as a sum of non-co-possible fragments which can coexist. It was not possible in Leibnitz’s vision of reality, based on the principle of co-possibility. But within postmodernity we can see excluding elements coexisting. The non-ordered non-co-possible monads, or nomads, swarming around could seem to be chaotic, and in this sense we usually use the word chaos in everyday speech. But strictly speaking, we should make a distinction.
We need to distinguish between two kinds of chaos, the postmodernist ‘chaos’ as an equivalent to confusion, a kind of post-order, and the Greek chaos as preorder, as something that exists before ordered reality has come into being. Only the latter can be considered as chaos in the proper sense of the word. This second, but actually the original, conception of chaos should be examined carefully and metaphysically.
The epic vision of the rise.

The Fourth Political Theory

Dugin, Alexander wrote:
Logos first appeared with the birth of Western philosophy. The earliest Greek philosophy arose as something that already excluded chaos. Precisely at the same time, logos began to flourish, revealing a kind of mighty will to power and the absolutisation of the masculine attitude to reality. The becoming of logocentric culture ontologically annihilated the polar opposite to logos itself — the feminine chaos. So chaos as something that preceded logos, was abolished by it, and its exclusivity were both manifested and dismissed at the same time.
Masculine logos ousted feminine chaos. Exclusivity and exclusion subdued inclusivity and the inclusion. So the Classical world was born, stretching its limits for 2500 years — up until modernity and the rationalist scientific era. This world has come to its end. But nevertheless, we are still living in its outskirts. At the same time, in the dissipating postmodern world, all the structures of order are degrading, dispersing, and becoming more and more confused. It is the dusk of logos, the end of order, the last chord of masculine, exclusivist domination. But still we are inside the logical structure rather than outside it.

The Fourth Political Theory

Dugin, Alexander wrote:
If we insist, nevertheless, in doing this, then we should appeal to chaos in its original Greek sense, as to something that proceeds being and order, something pre-ontological.

The Fourth Political Theory

Dugin, Alexander wrote:
Only the pre-ontological chaos can give as a hint about how to go beyond the trap of postmodernity. It was put aside on the eve of the creation of the logical structure of being as a cornerstone. Now it is its turn to come into play.
Otherwise, we will be doomed to accept the post-logical dissipated postmodernity that pretends to be eternal in some way because it annihilates time. Modernity has killed eternity and postmodernity is killing time. The architecture of the postmodern world is completely fragmented, perverse and confused. It is a labyrinth without an exit, as folded and twisted as a Moebius strip.[307] Logos, which was the guarantor of strictness and order, serves here instead to grant curvature and crookedness, being used to preserve the impassability of the ontological border with nothing from the eventual and inevitable trespassers seeking to escape into the beyond.
So the only way to save ourselves, to save humanity and culture from this snare, is to take the step beyond the logocentric culture, towards chaos.
We cannot restore logos and order, because they bear in themselves the reason for their own eternal destruction. In other words, to save the exclusive logos, we
should make an appeal to the alternative inclusive instance that is chaos.
But how could we use the concept of chaos and base our philosophy on it if, up to now, philosophy has always been for us something logical by definition?
In order to resolve this difficulty, we should approach chaos not from the position of logos but from that of chaos itself. It can be compared to the feminine
vision, the feminine understanding of the Other that is not excluded but, on the contrary, included in the sameness.
Logos regards itself as what is and as what is equal to itself. It can accept the differences inside itself because it excludes the Other that lies without. So the will to power is working, the law of sovereignty. Beyond logos, logos asserts, lies nothing, not something. So logos, excluding all other than itself, excludes chaos. Chaos uses a different strategy. It includes in itself all that it is, but at the same all that it is not. So all-inclusive chaos includes also what is not inclusive, namely that which excludes chaos. So chaos does not perceive logos as the Other, but as itself, or as something non-existent. Logos as the first principle of exclusion is included in chaos, present in it, enveloped by it, and has a place granted inside of it, as the mother bearing the baby bears in herself what is a part of herself and what is not a part of her at the same time. Man conceives woman as an external being and seeks to penetrate her. Woman considers man as something internal and seeks to give him a birth, and to give birth to him. Chaos is the eternal nascence of the Other, that is, of logos.

The Fourth Political Theory

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyThu Jul 04, 2019 11:39 am

Hawking, Stephen wrote:
The no boundary proposal has profound implications for the role of God in the universe. It is now generally accepted that the universe evolves according to well-defined laws. These laws may have been ordained by God, but it seems that He does not intervene in the universe to break the laws. Until recently, however, it was thought that these laws did not apply to the beginning of the universe. It would be up to God to wind up the clockwork and set the universe going in any way He wanted. Thus, the present state of the universe would be the result of God’s choice of the initial conditions. The situation would be very different, however, if something like the no-boundary proposal were correct. In that case the laws of physics would hold even at the beginning of the universe, so God would not have had the freedom to choose the initial conditions. Of course, He would still have been free to choose the laws that the universe obeyed. However, this may not have been much of a choice. There may only be a small number of laws, which are self-consistent and which lead to complicated beings like ourselves who can ask the question: what is the nature of God? And even if there is only one unique set of possible laws, it is only a set of equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to govern? Is the ultimate unified theory so compelling that it brings about its own existence? Although science may solve the problem of how the universe began, it cannot answer the question: why does the universe bother to exist? I don’t know the answer to that.

The 'why' is a profoundly human question, implying a 'purpose' and 'intent' as if it were existent outside human minds.
The human mind mistakes its own motives as belonging to an external source. Projecting tis own abstraction - ideas, ideals - noumena - as if they pre-existed the phenomena they represent.
It mistakes its own ability to reorganize abstractions for a universal rule.
Because it is born of parents it mistakes its own source as a universal fact.

It asks a question which implies an answer it cannot prove nor perceive.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyThu Jul 04, 2019 12:04 pm

Hawking, Stephen wrote:
Is everything determined? The answer is yes, it is. But it might as well not be, because we can never know what is determined.
These are the high-priests of modernity, those the Desperate Degenerates grasp upon to be given an understanding...a certainty, something to believe in.

Science has become the secular version of religion particularly when it makes grand sweeping statements of the universal.
Science is an extension of human knowledge and understanding, which is limited to what can be observed, and what can be observed must be rooted - patterned....otherwise it cannot be perceived.

Every age has its superstitions, delivered by those who act as mediators between the layman, the masses, and the divine.

Science is a human discipline, and so it is affected by human prejudices and human limitations - which are extended through technologies, and represented through the arts.
Science has its own mythologies....beginning with the Big Bang which is sought after as the absolute 'beginning.

Showing respect towards Hawkins, I can only say that many of his fellow scientists are dependent no external sources of funding, their careers dependent no some external authority....so many areas are out of bounds...such as race and gender differences.
His contemporaries 'specializing in human psychology have adjusted their list of psychosis to the modern ideals.

Everything has a cause, but this cause is an amalgamation of pattered and non-patterned energies, which the organism participates in.
The individual is not an 'innocent' victim, a passive feminine bystander, enduring what happens to her - a victim of circumstances - but participates in all her future options as a dynamic intentional agency.
She is not other than the sum of all causes, but one of them. She is one of many causes, determining her present circumstances and, through her judgements, and the choices these produce, all future options made available to her.
She participates in the determination of her own future.

Is her participation small?
Is it infinitesimal?
Perhaps....but will to power means increasing, stretching, these limitations - multiplying these options and her won ability to take advantage of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyThu Jul 04, 2019 1:20 pm

The past determines presence but it does not exceed it, nor the agency that is present.
The past does not determine the living organism's future, despite its choices and actions.

Determinism refers only to the already determined past which is continuously made present.
In the present is where the living organism participate and has some degree of free-will, through its choices.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyThu Aug 01, 2019 7:02 am

Chaos cannot be perceived directly but only through order.
It is in the fact that order does not produce absolutely perfect copies, as one would expect, but each is always slightly different than the one preceding and proceeding from it.
No moment, no day, no twin, no clone is ever perfectly alike. Not even technologies and art, which man intentionally tries to replicate as perfectly; as possible, can ever be absolutely alike, products coming off the assembly line always fall within tolerable sufficient parameters of exactness determined by human perceptual acuity and time-scales.
We should not expect "eternal return" to imply a repetition of the exact same life, in the exact same way.
how dull would that be - a cosmos that repeats the same, eternally.

The only factor that could explain this would be randomness - chaos properly defined; also permitting the presence of a degree of freedom, and necessitating a dynamic conciousness so as to adjust organic reactions to a dynamic existence.

We are in a cosmic phase where order is still dominant, but receding over space/time - tending towards absolute randomness.
The space/time scales are so huge that no mind can fully appreciate them.
Yet, this tendency is also what produces a new "beginning", a new cosmos - something approached but not finalized in this cosmic period, still relatively close to the "Big Bang" - in what we call Black Holes.
Man can still perceive cosmic radiation - residue of this "cosmic event". This residue will be gradually left behind as the cosmos expands - inflating possibilities, and decreasing probabilities, which is a definition of "randomness".

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyFri Aug 02, 2019 1:10 pm

Space = possibility - attraction/repulsion of ordered/chaotic energies.
Matter/Order= Probability - ordered energies.

Power is the degree of aggregate energies of the particular pattern, or synthesises of patterns.
As it pertains to will, it is the amount of energies available to the organism's will - focus.
Ergo, an organism's strength/power is the establishment of probabilities that facilitate the organism's maintenance and growth - expansion of its probabilities; excluding all undesirable probabilities and possibilities.

Choice is evaluated in relation to this objective.
Awareness of choices determines options; ability to make a choice is determined by the organism's power. .
The choice itself is determined by the organism's evaluation of the options it can choose, in relation to its objective - freedom/power relationship.

Higher power and awareness determines how many options (quantity) are perceived and how much discrimination is probable (quality).
Choice = freedom.
Everything that lacks choice lacks freedom - or the degree of choices available and accessible to the organism determines its elver of freedom in relation to others.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyFri Aug 02, 2019 5:55 pm

Lovecraft, H.P. wrote:
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age.

Thank the gods for human vanity and folly.
All they can see is what most flatters and fills them with hope. Everything else disappears in context and linguistic contrivances.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 2:47 pm

Through the chaos man senses the horror of uncertainty, the sensation of his own responsibility, the immensity and decisiveness of his limited participation.
Through the fissures of an absent absolute - an external absence of a projected internal mental construct - man experiences the insecurity and vulnerability of his increasing awareness; the cost of self-consciousness.
The absence of absolutes is an absence of omnipotence, omniscience, certainty and, more harshly, of their very possibility; the very conception of lost paradise.
The hell, of self-awareness, falling, falling, down into existence, from the idealistic clouds of one's own mind.  
The absence of absolute order is the secularization of a god that is as good as dead, no matter how many times he is 'reborn' and walks upon the earth as a "spirit with no corporeal substantiality"; an idea/ideal continuously being resynthesized.  
It is exiting the warm womb into a cold unknown reality; it is the loss of parental presence, thrusting the child into a do-or-die reality; a disturbing revelation - leaving the cave of one's own idealistic mind, into the bright, light - cosmos - trembling and cowering in fear before its dazzling presence.
It entails a loss. A loss of the comforting, encompassing, absoluteness of one's own subjectivity, cast upon the hard indifference of a fluctuating, objective reality.

Chaos means the loss of what remains of Abraham's one-god - the last vestiges of infancy and a lost innocence, still clinging and unable to completely let go.
A difficult truth to swallow.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 3:08 pm



The "secret" of Yin/Yang.


Nothingness is not Nothing.
Chaos is not complexity, this is semantics.
Complexity is not the opposite of order. It is hidden order.
Chaos is randomness, if by order we understand a repeating, predictable, sequence, i.e., activities, patterns, behaviours.
Randomness would then be the absence of order, i.e., unpredictable, non-repeating, unpredictable.
In Pagan allegorical contexts it is the Age of the Primordial ones, replaced by the age of the Titans, and then the Olympians, the last phase.

Without this understanding life's need/suffering will remain incomprehensible, and open to mystification and exploitation; without this understanding freedom of the will - of any degree - will remain incomprehensible and mystifying.
Belief in absolute order is nothing more than a secularization of the one-god - many non-believers still believe in the same Abrahamic deity they think they've overcome, without being aware of it. They have simply renamed him, after he has died and risen, as he has many times before - ideas are immortal, as long as one mortal continues to exist.
This is what they've called "spirit" or "soul" - or mind, transference of conciousness via ideas, i.e., memetic reproduction.

In nature chaos is absorbed in the appearance of natural order, because chaos cannot be perceived by an ordering mind, evolved from natural order.
Chaotic energies cannot merge into stable constructs to become perceived, so they remain on a the very edge of fragmentation, as the cosmos expands - meaning when dimensions multiply.
These energies interact because they remain dynamic - existent - not only between themselves but with ordering energies - their effect manifesting in a slight modification of order.
Increasing chaos means this slight effect will grow, as chaos increases.
A disturbing concept....yet one full of hope, as without chaos order cannot re-emerge.
Each time slightly different from the previous...and so pagan cosmic cycles are not about repetition of the same.
Eternal Return does not mean eternal reliving of the same life - a modification of Abrahamic immortality of the soul.
Buddhist nihilism, dreaming of an end to rebirth, is rooted in this, i.e. a desire to stop the cycles.
Buddhism is to Hinduism what Abrahamism is to Paganism...or Aryanism.

This type of semantic word-juggling, may work as a self-deception method, but if courage and integrity are present, in the right amounts, they are easily dispelled.
Renaming the same concepts may be effective, psychologically, if the mind is in need enough - desperate enough - but it cannot work in a mind which has integrity and its need to know exceeds its need to survive knowing.
The truth about the real is not necessarily "good", as is the benevolence of Abraham's one-god. "Eternal life" cannot be renamed "eternal return"; the one-god of the Bible, cannot be renamed absolute order, to resolve it all.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue Oct 08, 2019 9:42 am

Nature is unconscious and indifferent, so how could natural selection work?
Trial and error.
Nature produces multiplicity of synthesis, most unfit, some few fit....and through weeding the former from the latter, it progresses - environment is the standard if not intervened upon by humans infected sick by a nihilistic ideology.
Not infected, but using nihilism - method of linguistic negation - as a method to cope with this indifferent natural selection process.
As I noted elsewhere, nihilism is an ideology that emerges to deal with the vulnerability and insecurity caused by emerging self-consciousness.
Natural selection is indifferent to human desires and needs, and this is terrifying to a mind that realizes that it will be selected out of the gene pool because its particular synthesis is unfit.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue Oct 08, 2019 9:47 am

Given the above, we can see how free-will emerges as a more efficient method of adapting to fluctuating environments - natural selection works on trial & error, sacrificing myriads so as to find the one that is fit.
Free-will streamlines the adaptation process.
Environment being order and chaotic energies interacting.
So, free-will, expressed through choice, is a real-time adjustment to the unforeseeable.
Nature selection processes - culling, disease, genetic filtering by females - is slower and more brutal, more unforgiving.
Billions of mutations emerging and 99.999% filtered out, for that 0.0001% to be propagated and integrated into a organism behavioural patterns.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 am

Mutations emerge through the interplay of chaos/order, and manifest in an organism, which must then apply them within an environment - an objective reality.
The subjective testes itself, or is tested by objective reality, which remains indifferent to its fate.
Environment also being in flux, forcing a continuous process of adaptation.
Genetic combinations that are unfit will be culled out of the gene-pool, in a brutal and endless process of trial & error - of synthesis and un-synthesis.
Man intervenes, eventually, to impose a limit upon this process, guided by a motive.
An idea/ideal.
Here is where pollution begins - collateral by[products of man's ideological interventions upon natural processes.
the more nihilistic these ideologies become, the more contrary to the natural processes they become - producing increasingly more collateral effects - pollution.
The system becomes an enclosure resisting nature, similar to how an organism creates a enclosure, with the membrane, skin, exoskeleton, resisting flux - experienced as need/suffering.
The more rigid the enclosure, the more artificial it becomes - creating an internal environment contrary to an external cosmos. Those contained within the enclosure are affected more by human contrivances than what lies outside of it - artificiality; social engineering, social selection replaces natural selection as the process of selecting fitness; in this case socio-economic vitality.
Eventually the entire structure collapses, replaced by another - memetic natural selection.


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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySun Dec 27, 2020 6:52 am

In Schopenhauer's cosmology existence is a symphony, each note a different kind of matter/energy.
one note, being present, falls away into memory (past) and is replaced by a new one (presence), in anticipation of the next one (future), the juxtaposition between them experienced as melody.

But there is an added layer of chaotic white noise in the background, participating, with these notes, to determine the next note.
We intuitively know it because we assume that the perceived void is not empty of the same kind of energies we perceive as light, and the silence is not empty of background vibrations of the cosmos we are immersed within.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyWed Dec 30, 2020 7:57 am

Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von wrote:
The more imperfect the living being, the more the parts resemble each other and reproduce the image of the whole. The more the living being becomes perfect, the more the parts are dissimilar.
When the parts look like each other, they are decreasingly subordinated to each other; the subordination of the organs characterizes a creature of superior order.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyMon May 17, 2021 11:17 pm

From the abyss - chaos - emerge the Titans and from the Titans emerge the Olympian gods - powerful but not omnipotent; wise but not omniscient.
This is cosmos, i.e., world.
Nature is most often associated with order and so order is what man finds in it.

Encompassing order is chaos - metaphysics underlying physics.
From chaos we emerge and back to chaos we return - Yin/Yang - and in between we experience existence.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyTue May 18, 2021 6:59 am

Order is predicated on what can be repeated/copied by cognition.

Patterns which cannot be repeated are beyond human comprehension and understanding. Yet as evolution occurs, intelligence develops and then accumulates what was previously incomprehensible or believed impossible by previous generations.

Order begins when a pattern is first copied.



This is also the fundamentals of Biology, by which the simplest forms of life (viruses, bacterium, fungi) have DNA which attempts to copy-itself. Deviation from such copies is Mutation, which allows for progression/evolution.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyWed May 19, 2021 2:16 pm



Self is only a starting point and self-awareness is the potential of its power. Self is nothing without a link to an objective. Self and world is an ongoing interacting relationship. When one universalizes/absolutizes one or the other participant of this relationship, then the self is thwarted from what guides it and falls into chaos. Dissapointment, self-hatred, resentment stems from favoring one side of the relationship over the other, separating the oppositional force and then one feels a lacking that they then seek to fulfill. The primordial (self) must actively merge with stream of consciousness, culminating into an identity.


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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySat May 22, 2021 8:33 am

If you seek a primordial god you can conceptualize as a singular absolute, seek it in chaos.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySun May 23, 2021 6:44 am

Having an accurate and realistic self-impression, representing self-consciousness, Know Thyself, is a symbolic attempt to copy-oneself (memetically).

If a person can do so successfully, then it marks a shift in evolution, which animals cannot do, and most humans cannot do.

An artistic representation of this would be Agent Smith in The Matrix cloning himself freely.


Narcissists overly-inflate the Ego, imagining themselves much bigger than they really are,
Nihilists overly-deflate the Ego, imagining themselves much smaller than they really are.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyMon May 24, 2021 4:27 pm

A woman with a beautiful face represents genetic rarity and a very, very high environmental upkeep. Consider *ALL* evolution up to now, industrial revolution, computers, engineering, warfare, all of humanity that is required to provide an environment by which a beautiful woman is bred, and then protected from all the dangers, austerity, and randomness of Nature.

As such, qualities with high upkeeps are more difficult to maintain than low-qualities. If that same beautiful woman has sex with just any man, then her children will be lessened, usually to a significant degree. Thus a woman's choice of mate represents her ability to maintain the rare traits which are most valued and valuable.

As said previous in this thread, Order is about Repetition. The "goal" or "purpose", if you could call it that, of Beauty, is to replicate and copy its most valuable traits. So although that beautiful woman cannot copy her face exactly, she can do so more-or-less by degree. And with some luck, and superior choices, her children may come out more beautiful than she was. And this would be a form of 'Progress' in terms of genetics and evolution. In this same way, the intellect and strength of men too can 'Progress', and history of mankind, or of any biological organism, demonstrates the evidence and proof quite clearly. After all, humanity today, is reflective and representative of this fact.


It is most difficult to maintain and replicate High Order, just as a sequence of numbers is more difficult to copy, remember, and reassert as a few or couple numbers: 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,etc. versus 1,93,64,190,0.3,576,85,-28,5^53,etc. Obviously a complex sequence is very difficult. Thus this rule can be applied to biology, genetics, and evolution.

A beautiful face is a representation of this highest upkeep, of highest complexity.

Consider all the resources required to create and maintain human beauty, or any organic/biological beauty of any specie.



Complexity is Hierarchical.

Higher orders depend-upon Lower orders to consume, and to draw from them energy, as parasites do from hosts, and as carnivores devour herbivores.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptySat May 29, 2021 8:47 pm

Idealization carries with it an attachment of personal identity. Investing oneself into what the ideal represents for who they are, their inadequacies or their strengths, their self-loathing, or their self-worshiping, or the unawareness of themselves entirely. Most remain suspended in the realm of the ideal, drifting aimlessly among its power.
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos and Order Chaos and Order EmptyThu Jul 08, 2021 10:50 am

The issue is patterns.
Patterns, called order, which are sanctified - called god, universe - or demonized; patterns that are considered absolute - authoritarian, totalitarian - or considered illusory, concealing chaos.

Patterns referring to causality.
Patterns interpreted as eidos, kind, type of matter, energy, as the apparent.
A deep desire to dismiss patterns as irrelevant, or, as I said, illusory concealing chaos, or to discover the all-inclusive, all-unifying pattern that underlies all patterns, the secret code, the occult pattern....the mind of god.

Patterns that reveal essence; patterns that threaten and give hope.
Patterns that, theoretically, make it all knowable, rational, predictable, determined.
Patterns repeating eternally and consistently.

But patterns are only part of existence.
Chaos is that terrifying blemish that makes patterns all the more attractive, i.e., beautiful, seductive, desirable.


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