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 Automation and the Decline of Man

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PostSubject: Automation and the Decline of Man Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:51 am

Human populations will decline, as is the experience of the horse since the advent of the car,

Like it or not, this appears to be the future to come.

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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:40 am

You confuse explicit and implicit.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:40 am

Nothing implied about it.
It's already happening.

Check demographics for the last 50 years.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:35 pm

We can only feed an ever increasing population for so long.

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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:12 pm

Horses were treated as a means to an end - a tool.

The question is, whether the existence of your fellow (wo)man is that a tool, or whether their existence is valuable inherently.

We can sustain the current human population, assuming we take advantage of technology. Instead of people becoming irrelevant, people could free themselves from the monotonous work that they're disinterested in, and focus on the things they value.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:14 pm

If one was to concern oneself with the simplified matter of whether the world population would be better to increase, decrease, or stay the same, then a decrease would generally be the desired result.

The more pressing issue is that of what segments will increase and what will decrease. Technology has already reached the stage that would make the majority of people's labor unnecessary, and the mass production and infiltration of the level of technology necessary for this may not be far away.

The financial/political elites, finding less and less need for the many to produce for them and serve them, will (and already have to some extent) reverse the long held memes that encourage population increases and create memes to decrease the population.

The financial/political elites, aren't necessarily the intellectual elites and are generally lacking in nobility. It seems that such elites are more and more becoming indistinguishable from the commoner outside of their wealth and power.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:55 pm

So,

Ought the commoners, "99%", embrace extinction to satisfy the ideals of a financial elite?
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:29 pm

Commoners have no unity outside of those who control them, the idea itself of a unity of mediocrity, that is self lead, meaning democratic, has probably never actually taken place, nor is it likely to do so.

As I said the difference between the commoners and the financial/political elite isn't much, in fact with the decline of noble lineages they regularly exchange places. But, whatever side a common mind is on, rich and/or in office or not, he is still bound by instinct and cultural forces, and can hardly expect to understand the fate of those like him, let alone change it. These cultural forces were mostly long ago set by higher minds, and the relatively few higher minds left have little control over those forces now.

So the question isn't really what commoners can do to avoid decline but what any given commoner can do for himself.

Take myself, I'm common enough in most ways, but would like to improve. To do that, understanding my situation, which includes becoming one capable of understanding my situation, is most important.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:38 pm

How do you define noble?
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:28 am

What I meant by noble lineages in this context was those established lineages of inherited status, land, etc.

Concerning nobility as a character trait, some of its major aspects are honesty and constancy through farsightedness.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:01 am

Noble - Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor + magnanimous

Are you noble?

==

Stuart wrote:
a decrease would generally be the desired result
You present the general opinion as the agenda of the elite.

Should decrease be sought? Why not equilibrium without culling?

Stuart wrote:
The more pressing issue is that of what segments will increase and what will decrease.
Segments?

Based on what? Money?

The financial elite have the right to dictate who lives and dies?

Our only source of value is that allocated to us by the financial elite?

==
==

Commoners being those who aren't financial elites. Those who aren't in the 1%.

Stuart wrote:
Commoners have no unity outside of those who control them
You ought say 'that which controls'. And in doing so, the same can be said for the elite.

And if a commoner is self controlled and creates unity?

Stuart wrote:
the idea itself of a unity of mediocrity,
Financial mediocrity.

Is finance a measure of quality?

Stuart wrote:
that is self lead, meaning democratic, has probably never actually taken place, nor is it likely to do so.
Self fulfilling prophecy.

And if the environment pressures it stronger than it suppresses it?
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:28 am

ben JS wrote:
Are you noble?

It's difficult to say, it's easier to define the concept than apply it to oneself.

Quote :
Should decrease be sought?

By who?

Quote :
Stuart wrote:
The more pressing issue is that of what segments will increase and what will decrease.
Segments?

Based on what? Money?

It seems that's one of the primary factors.

Quote :
The financial elite have the right to dictate who lives and dies?

They have the ability.

Quote :
Our only source of value is that allocated to us by the financial elite?

How do you come to that conclusion?

Quote :
Commoners being those who aren't financial elites. Those who aren't in the 1%.

In this context that's what I meant, but there can be other types of commoners, such as intellectually.

Quote :
Stuart wrote:
Commoners have no unity outside of those who control them
You ought say 'that which controls'. And in doing so, the same can be said for the elite.

Yes, the same for those in the financial elite who're not in the intellectual elite.

Quote :
And if a commoner is self controlled and creates unity?

If a financial commoner is self controlled then he an intellectual elite, and he would rather find unity among what other intellectual elites he can find, rather than unity among other financial commoners.

Quote :
Is finance a measure of quality?

Not necessarily, but the fact remains that if for no other reason than that they reflect the vast majority of people in general the vast majority of financial commoners are also intellectual commoners.

Quote :
And if the environment pressures it stronger than it suppresses it?

You mean if the majority are no longer allowed what's necessary for base contentment? In such cases they'll be much change, but for most they'll unlikely improve their condition, and they certainly won't obtain any real unity. Basically, if they're united under desperation and desperation alone, then as many of them become less desperate, they'll quickly abandon, in fact, those who're still desperate, even if they still pretend to be united in a common concern.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:11 pm

Man is a mechanism, a small part which forms a larger machine, a society.
The purpose of that machine is to grow and to bring all life under its control.
In this scenario, man must be malleable so he can be assigned new purposes as the machine grows. Ways are found to get rid of those elements which are not able or willing to integrate into the machine.

What's the purpose of that society? Of any society for that matter?

'Meaning and Purpose. Everything purposeful is meaningless, and everything meaningful is purposeless.'
- L. Klages

I think there is truth in that quote. When someone says purpose then he sees himself detached from the thing he assigns purpose to. A small piece of stone can have a purpose but it could also hold meaning for me, whenever it does have it, for me. For it to have meaning, it must be connected to me in a…meaningful way.

Another example would be my body, when I see myself detached from my body. In other words, when this I sees itself as distinct from its body then suddenly that body becomes a thing of multiple purposes, for example to sustain this I which sees itself detached from its body.

This is a mechanization of life. We now either have a purpose or not for the big machine and if we don't then we have to be re-assigned or discarded. To call it a machine could be misleading because yes, we have used a lot of concrete to build the infrastructure of this machine but ultimately it is a kind of hive mind. It has developed a dynamic of its own and in this environment the individuals are losing their meaning. In exchange, they may or may not have a temporary purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:13 pm

Quote :
In exchange, they may or may not have a temporary purpose.

I think the trend will be people gradually losing faith in even the temporary purpose the machine offers while, of course, never being able to realize a whole truth... Those with sway in finance/media/politics will continue to stay trendy with a new "lack of faith" which will probably become a trendy thing... until meaning becomes quickly lost and regained by the efforts of a machine that is quick and clever enough to assign people those images and feelings that lift them out of the heavy weight and oppression/pressure of having no ground when all ground changes texture too quick for all but a few to grasp....To what extent does the "machine" make "staying in style" a sort of never-ending opposition between absolute principles(those of religion/tradition)... where being an artist becomes one of the most appealing prospects for attaining meaning...and the half-truths of the artist are in turn religiously defended by those that ironically are in the camp of "staying in style."

And it seems that the the subtle use of words emanate from the men that overcome a need to act in a practical way while still valuing the need for a right type of action(that isn’t necessarily practical although maybe some can be), and it’s at this point that things tend to seem most misleading, when everything we are and all the passion we have for life finds new direction that becomes our own in the words of others that seem to have conquered so much and overcome so much pain to get to a place only we can relate to(or so we tell ourselves)… But it’s at this point, that you become less social but can never lose the passion that connects all… or else your words become less relatable to the eternal fire… The need for power is moving concurrently with a desire to know its practical application while maintaining that distance that allows for the serenity to rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:05 pm

Then we have a convergence of automation.

The technique/technology convergence.
I often use these two words in unison to allude to this.

Technology is a mechanical prosthesis compensating for individual limits, resulting in a uniformity, or a form of artificially produced equality.
This would include machinery but also books, and the internet.

Then we have the technique, which is a learned application of individual energies.
The shared technique, provided by a shared meme, also levels performance as the technique is supposed to offer an automated behavior (acting, thinking) that eliminates the extremes and promotes a median.
Marriage, is such a technique, and so is the (re)action certain words, referring to certain idea(l)s, produce.
The technique is ingrained, and the word triggers it.
The imagery, sensations, emotions, knowledge they result in is part of the technique, or the method of applying knowledge (data, info).
How this knowledge is interpreted, the method of interpreting (understanding) is the learned technique.

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PostSubject: Re: Automation and the Decline of Man Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:51 pm



So similar...
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