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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:50 pm

So: gay folks can now legally 'marry' in (I'm guessin') 30 of the 50 states.

Good on them!

Can't see any reason why gay folks ought to be insulated from the miseries, burdens, and horrors of 'marriage'.

And since gay folks (pound for pound) are no more intelligent, stable, insightful, or wise than straight folks, I expect their 'marriages' will fail in the same way straight 'marriages' do (1st-50%, 2nd-65 to 70%, 3rd-75% plus).

A damned good time for all.

-----

If you really want to solve the problem then get government out of the mix.

Is there a constitutional right to gay marriage?

Nope.

There’s also no constitutional right to straight marriage.

Marriage is a covenantal event that properly falls into the religious sphere.

Government (federal, state, regional. municipal) ought to be silent on the matter.

'But, Henry, what about all the legalities of 'marriage' (property and children and whatnot) without the oversight and sanction of government how is all 'that' supposed to be handled?'

There's a thing called *'contract': Joe and Jaclyn, Joe and Jack, Josephine and Jaclyn, get thee to a lawyer (or notary) and bestow upon each, through idiosyncratic contract, the rights and responsibilities each deems important, or, just jump the broom and get on with the livin'.

This way, government's role is simply as arbiter of contract dispute (not as licenser or sanctioner or promoter).

Imagine all the folks left hanging if such a thing were to pass.

Pro-folks would have no political rope to hold (and no money to make).

Anti-folks would have no political rope to hold (and no money to make).

Again: a damned good time for all.









*me, not a shyster...just seems codifying a relationship is more honest (and easier) than directing a culture
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:25 pm

Lesbians, due to female genetic determinations, tend to be less promiscuous than gay males.
Gay males use marriage for social and economic reasons, and usually go about their usual promiscuous lifestyles while being married.

Old age is always a factor.

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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 pm

"Old age is always a factor."

In pretty much everything.

FYI: my above post has me labeled as a bigot in one forum, and has a big lefty agreeing with me in another...go figure.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:34 pm

Henry Quirk wrote:
"Old age is always a factor."

In pretty much everything.

FYI: my above post has me labeled as a bigot in one forum, and has a big lefty agreeing with me in another...go figure.

Leftists, liberals, come in multiple forms...as many as there are weaknesses to cope with.

They have no objective reality to adhere to, so they come in more variants.
Realists who refer to the world are mistaken for cults, or as part of some conspiracy, because their bonding premises are objectively determined.
Liberals are not bound by any real world, so their imagination is their only restricting limit.

But, if you learn to discern the patterns, you see that most of this apparent multiplicity is governed by a central uniform theme.

I've called it nihilism.
The negation of reality.
What form this negation will take is determined by the particularities of the individual and his circumstances.

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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:44 pm

Yep.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:57 pm

Henry Quirk wrote:


If you really want to solve the problem then get government out of the mix.

Is there a constitutional right to gay marriage?

Nope.

There’s also no constitutional right to straight marriage.

Marriage is a covenantal event that properly falls into the religious sphere.

Government (federal, state, regional. municipal) ought to be silent on the matter.

'But, Henry, what about all the legalities of 'marriage' (property and children and whatnot) without the oversight and sanction of government how is all 'that' supposed to be handled?'

There's a thing called *'contract': Joe and Jaclyn, Joe and Jack, Josephine and Jaclyn, get thee to a lawyer (or notary) and bestow upon each, through idiosyncratic contract, the rights and responsibilities each deems important, or, just jump the broom and get on with the livin'.

This way, government's role is simply as arbiter of contract dispute (not as licenser or sanctioner or promoter).

Back when I believed this an issue needing solving, I believed what you advocate was the best solution.

Quote :
Imagine all the folks left hanging if such a thing were to pass.

Pro-folks would have no political rope to hold (and no money to make).

Anti-folks would have no political rope to hold (and no money to make).

Again: a damned good time for all.

And that is exactly why the situation is as it is.

While democrats seem to be somewhat more culturally degenerate on average than republicans, it also seems democrats operate somewhat more in the short term interest of the country. With that in mind it's more difficult to find any satisfaction in the republicans gaining political ground through this issue - especially knowing that most republicans will fold on the issue once it becomes too stigmatizing to continue to resist it.

But, all that aside, in principal, if nothing else, it's still worth opposing any ground achieved by homosexuals.

Should they lack the ability to form a legal union concerning raising children, that is better than the alternative. Certainly the issue of family deterioration doesn't rest on whether homosexuals couples can raise children. Single mothers will still be rampant both because of  women using the courts to push men away and because of men voluntarily leaving. But, when a society actually establishes the ability for two or more homosexuals to obtain an equal partnership in raising children, it's symbolically a message that says that family deterioration is not even something they wish to try to solve.

Then as for the issue of marriage in itself, as you say something which is more a religious matter. Yes, it's a Christian concern, but to separate the absurdities and nihilism of the Christian beliefs, marriage becomes something reflecting a remnant of the more natural roots intermixed among those peoples who were 'converted' through the centuries. Perhaps not completely natural, in that marriage is, or at least was, largely a construct of decadent civilizations to keep free-radical men in check, but it's natural for the obvious reason that it takes both genders to breed.

The important thing is that, outside of legal contracts and the ridiculous notion of a contract before a singular god, Christian marriage has some positive symbolism. It's a contract before a community, even if that community is not entirely defined in natural terms.

Being that the government has already long taken a role in legally validating these religious contracts, for the government to allow the issue to be subverted to allow for homosexuals (more so if called a marriage, though the term 'legal union' fooling no one) is the government symbolically stating not only that they no longer wish to preserve Americans' ability to maintain some fragments of tribalistic culture, but that they actual oppose it vehemently.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:10 pm

Henry wrote:
'But, Henry, what about all the legalities of 'marriage' (property and children and whatnot) without the oversight and sanction of government how is all 'that' supposed to be handled?'

There's a thing called *'contract'....

Though women are almost repulsed by bargaining men. Men have to pursue what they want on their own terms and only their own terms or; a divine like institution or social order is telling women what the arrangement is going to be like and Amen.

There would most probably be women who'd sign such a contract but no matter how strong (or weak) the position of the man in such a contract; it was basically signed by equals and that sets the stage for a resentful and dry relationship.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:41 pm

Marriage is the institution through which barbarians and (m)animals pretend to be human.

Marriage was originally conceived, and is still perpetuated, through the truly noble divine.

Marriage is a mark of aristocracy, patriarchy through the lead of a father or matriarchy through the lead of a mother.
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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:59 pm

If any one gives a shit…

from post 419 on

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and

the whole thread

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:29 pm

Yockey, Francis Parker wrote:
A pacified world would be one in which there was no politics.
It would thus be one where no human difference could possibly arise which could range men against one another as enemies. In a purely economic world men could be opposed, but only as competitors.
If morality was also there the proponents of different theories could oppose one another, but only in discussion. Religionists could oppose one another, but only with the propaganda of their respective faiths.
It would have to be a world in which there was no one who would kill, or better yet, such a languid, colorless and boring world that no one could possibly take anything seriously enough to kill or risk his life about it.

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:48 pm

Weininger, Otto wrote:
The absolute female knows neither the logical nor the moral imperative, and the words law and duty, duty towards herself, are words which are least familiar to her.
The inference that she is wanting in a super-sensual personality is fully justified. The absolute female has no ego.

Having no ego does not mean having no pride, it means she has less of a sense of self: as in Know Thyself.
This makes her immune to conscience, to idealism that exceeds her perceptual-event-horizon.
It makes her immune to reason beyond the immediately pragmatic.

For all she lacks she depends upon sources to fill her in.

She is a creature of sensations, emotions, simple animals pleasures...which she then inflates by referring to those sources, which are most often males.

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Anfang

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:20 pm

Henry Quirk wrote:
If any one gives a shit…

from post 419 on

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and

the whole thread

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Bigots not knowing that they are bigots using the bigot word a lot without understanding what being bigoted is even about.
Modern communication - It's about emotionally engaging the other person and to manipulate on an irrational level. The universal modern beliefs are set in stone and not even recognized as being beliefs but thought of as universal Truth.
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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:12 pm

What stands out to me (especially in the Freethought thread): the current effort to legalize gay marriages has nuthin' to do with a legal parity.

If it were, my suggestion is an ideal approach to achieve such a thing.

No, what the pro-folks want is the approval of everyone.

Tolerance is not sufficient...indifference is unacceptable...no, only wholesale approval will work.


Anecdote...

A few years back: At the beginning of any evening with an attractive woman, I was blindsided with this question, "how do you stand on gays?"

I was blindsided because in all previous conversations such a thing never came up.

Knowing the evening was essentially over (before it had really begun) I answered honestly: I don't care one way or the other...if Jack and Joe ‘wanna’ I can't see how it's my bizniz...in fact it only becomes my bizniz if Jack and Joe expect me to somehow 'pay'...if they leave me be, I got no problem returning the favor'.

My date launched into a diatribe about why I should care about gay rights and whatnot.

As I say: the evening was over before it had really begun.


Again: tolerance is not sufficient, indifference is unacceptable, only approval will satisfy.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:46 pm

A manimal does not like to define the words it is using...unless it is simply to use the general, often multiple, definitions given to it in a dictionary.
It's how it remain aloof, cynical, detached from everything...safe from being exposed as a simpleton, completely dependent on others to give it meanings and references to reality.

It begins with a manimalistic position, concerning the world and its own place within it...because this is the only thing such a mind can comprehend.
But having being exposed to things above it, incomprehensible to it, it resorts to verbatim regurgitation, calling it "classical", to add to the pretence and to hide its own modern disconnect from it.

Now there's a simple fact none of these manimals can escape:
A manimal can only convince, impress, those beneath it, or equal to it, whereas those above it see right through the pretense.
Those beneath may be so impressed that they may admire this manimal...but those above only see the pretense, and it degrades this manimal further, in their estimations.

For example...using big words to impress the average moron, or obscure references to pretend that you are "way ahead" of the pack, may impress the average imbecile, but for those who know what it is this only diminishes the actor in their eyes.

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:44 pm

Henry wrote:
Tolerance is not sufficient...indifference is unacceptable...no, only wholesale approval will work.

Homosexuals are in the catalogue of the oppressed species and as such they must be advocated for. This has become the social glue for liberals.
Imagine, a long time ago, when a people were at war with some other people then saying 'Well, I'm neither for nor against them.' would have been shamed or plainly ostracized such an individual.
This fighting for the oppressed, no matter how ridiculous it is by now - actually, has been for a long time already - has become such a common cause.

But there is a big difference -
To me it's part of the self-destruction of the traditional roles and thereby the destruction of the established biology - feminization. I would find a word like transformation cynical because I think what is being established is not sustainable for very long.
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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:17 pm

Pretty much done with Freethought (for another two or three years).

Done wanged my head enough there.

Willful distortions of what I post and my lines dis-embedded from context: make me tired.

Such love they have for the great, heaving, bosom of the state, for the law.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:28 pm

Dealing with retards is a waste of time.
all they have is personal insecurity, finding clever, or popular (modern) ways of pretending to be something strong, and free.

They detach the word from the real, the noumenon from the phenomenon, the man from nature, so as to construct a flattering, delusion.
Sex, in general, has been detached from reality, turning it into some kind of spiritual concept, because if you attach to to reality then, love, homosexuality, race, empathy, female/male become clear as day.

The Modern loves mysticism.
Words must be magical, or, at least, ambiguous enough to imply the magical.
When discovered, the modern scurries to find another word to hide under.
Something some famous dude said, to lend it credence.

Ask it to define the words it is using and what will it do?
Refer, defer...go for the shadows an other casts.

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:38 am

Marriage, I argue, is important for the survival of the human species. Failed marriages and whorishness amongst females, as we see in today's west especially America, leads to the decay of a society. Gay marriage is just another sign of a society's decay and eventual fall.

The balance between masculinity and femininity is preserved through marriage. Man, the hunter, the gatherer, warrior and defender. Woman, the tenderer, the one who raises the young. There is a balance in this social agreement, one that is vital to the survival of the human species. Whether or not you feel that this social contract is debased by gays being allowed in, is directly associated with how Christianized you probably are.

Family values are innate to civilized man, something you can see has declined in the west. It is preserved in the east, where the levelling effect hasn't taken hold as strongly. Marriage is necessary, without it, man would have to spend all his efforts in the pursuit of one female after another. This is what is happening in the west - man has become primal again, enraged, due to the promiscuity and unreliability of female sexuality. Female sexuality is supposed to submit to masculinity, as it is in nature. Paradoxcially enough, the institution, as you know, has castrated and feminized the man by detaching him from his primal purpose.

What is man now? He has no purpose, as he can't fight against other males and eliminate them as competition. Likewise, nature does not eliminate these worthless males.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:13 am

Pretty much any place where I posted my suggestion to privatize marriage I got shit thrown at me. All I can figure is that it's way more important for a whole whack of folks to 'be accepted' than to simply get on with living.

Seems to me: any means by which a person can 'do' sumthin' with a minimal of interference (and assistance) from others is a good thing, but I guess that puts me in the minority.

*shrug*
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:06 pm

I think I've figured this progress thing out now.
Progress means to be open to the universally shared goals of society whatever they may be. If established narrative says homosexual marriage good, polygamy bad, then it is so.
If it is narrated that getting the children into the public education system as early as possible is a good thing then it is so.

What is truth is already established. All the arguing is just so that people think they have come up with what is right and wrong, true and false, on their own.
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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:06 pm

Anfang,

While that may be how a whole whack of folks (re)define progress, can't see how I'm obliged to follow suit.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:09 pm

Henry Quirk wrote:

While that may be how a whole whack of folks (re)define progress, can't see how I'm obliged to follow suit.

I appreciate that you haven't followed suit.
The suits who follow have become very common, or at least very vocal.

About modern marriage -
Because of how society runs today, the quality of people and so forth, marriage is probably gonna be a costly affair for a lot of men today - not only financially.
But in theory I'm in favor of marriage being a thing which is standardized within a society. Provided that it is a healthy society, so not just any society.

The proposal to make it an individual contract thing sounds to me somehow like an 'emergency' measure. And emergency measures are for emergencies but in the long run, if adopted as a new normalcy they could drive the cart into an even deeper pit.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:54 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Marriage, I argue, is important for the survival of the human species. Failed marriages and whorishness amongst females, as we see in today's west especially America, leads to the decay of a society. Gay marriage is just another sign of a society's decay and eventual fall.

The balance between masculinity and femininity is preserved through marriage. Man, the hunter, the gatherer, warrior and defender. Woman, the tenderer, the one who raises the young. There is a balance in this social agreement, one that is vital to the survival of the human species. Whether or not you feel that this social contract is debased by gays being allowed in, is directly associated with how Christianized you probably are.

Family values are innate to civilized man, something you can see has declined in the west. It is preserved in the east, where the levelling effect hasn't taken hold as strongly. Marriage is necessary, without it, man would have to spend all his efforts in the pursuit of one female after another. This is what is happening in the west - man has become primal again, enraged, due to the promiscuity and unreliability of female sexuality. Female sexuality is supposed to submit to masculinity, as it is in nature. Paradoxcially enough, the institution, as you know, has castrated and feminized the man by detaching him from his primal purpose.

What is man now? He has no purpose, as he can't fight against other males and eliminate them as competition. Likewise, nature does not eliminate these worthless males.

Man has yet to be able to achieve consciously and, or subconsciously that which Nature has always been able to through natural selection, on the way down to the molecular-cellular level and all the way down to the atomic level.
Man may select this or that favorable trait, but it is at the expense of other favorable traits or to the subversion of unfavorable traits.
For instance, at the very basic understanding of this initial principle, a rose is made more colorful at the expense of a stronger scent.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:27 am

"...if adopted as a new normalcy they could drive the cart into an even deeper pit."

Yeah.

Humans are great for innovating and equally great for fucking innovation up.
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PostSubject: Re: marriage Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:40 pm

News was in July 2014.




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Quote :
"Last year the bride and groom tied the knot after Saneie claimed he had been told by his dead ancestors to wed and his family took the message from the heavens very seriously

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Henry Quirk

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PostSubject: Re: marriage Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:55 pm

"I can't see why we should judge"

Dumbass...such shit is gonna bite folks like him square on the ass not too far down the road.
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