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 JERUSALEM contra Athens

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Satyr
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PostSubject: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:26 pm

The slavish, the at the bottom of the social ladder, unite in their shared victimhood and turn their shame into pride.
This becomes so seductive they must place restrictions in who is to be accepted into their exclusive club of the meek, the chosen to suffer.
The hierarchies are inverted.
Those at the bottom of the King's reign rise above him, as belonging to the King of kings....power through association.
This makes them hated even amongst the meek and slavish in all tribes excluded from the salvation.  
Christianity, and Islam, go viral by adopting Hellenic cosmopolitanism which opens the gates of inclusion further - but not enough.
In this modern world inclusion just be wide open to all-inclusion...Marxism and then as a more sophisticated form of it liberalism and making secular humanism then next stage in this viral development.  


A- The Orthodox Branch
It remains true to the traditions of Jewry as the homeless ones, detaching from reality (past, world) to inherit eternity; the ones who must suffer so as to bring about the Messiah and Armageddon.
The purest form of Jewry.
Their ultimate goal: to live-out their mission, as the chosen ones, and allow the end to come sooner rather than alter.
Pure world-hating, Nihilism.  


B- The Political Branch
It sought to become a gene, by establishing a cthonic relationship to the earth it rejected and found identity in escaping.
Israel is a product of this form of Zionism.
This involves a self-contracting attitude which has been called the "Jewish Paradox": power built on meekness (quantities) and vitimhood having to justify its continuing identification with remaining the eternal chosen to suffer, the eternal victim.
The methods to be employed would be considers prejudiced and racist in any other nation-state but if it comes form the Jews it is justified.
Israel would become a national-socialist state with strict rules as to who is considered Jewish.
Right-wing, nationalistic, Zionist Jews are part of this group - usually secular that use religion as a tool.    


C- The Cultural/Social Branch
We can include Marxism here... the globalization of identity by eliminating all natural identifiers; the leveling down of mankind to where all become uniformly similar.
This branch is what is popular and is infecting western man today - Modernity.
The strategy of pulling down what one can never be - erasing a past which shames so as to escape it.
Slandering all identifiers other than the immediate and selling the idea(l)s of detachment from past/nature, is how this uniformity the Jew, along with all bloodlines, is to disappear within will become a reality.
The Liberal Jews belonging to this group are also called "self-hating Jews".  

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:36 pm

The internal splintering of Judaism, first as Christianity/Islam, then in the west into the different Christian dogmas, and finally in the modern age into right/left, or Zionism/Communism and secular humanism/liberalism, can be ascribed to the detachment inherit in nihilism, and due to sheltering and the sense of safety and arrogance it promotes, lending itself to any approach and variant...becoming, in the west, what is called "individuality/freedom".    

The Cold War is the post-war consequence....
Stalin, and now Putin, reject the Jew, Zionist element (Trotsky, Oligarchs), to adapt this form of nihilism to the Aryan past.
The pre-war, pre-Modern, relationships are reaffirmed...as in Holy Roman Empire and Byzantium.

East vs West

As I've said elsewhere the Cold War was a settling of internal accounts once the "true enemy" was weakened.
Stalin hated because he purged the Russian elites from the western Jew influence, as is Putin in our day.
Stalin had communism as his secular humanist alternative, whereas Putin revers to previous Holy roman/Byzantine divisions to maintain cohesion and to establish a Russian identity (national socialist), because the Aryan one has been lost.
Hitler's big mistake is rooted in this national socialism shallowness of identifiers.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:00 pm

All modern conceptions of reality flow back towards this dichotomy of right/left, or, I should say, through it.
Some go further back others remain in the most immediate, most recent, and so can only comprehend everything, including history through the prism of Liberals and Conservatives.

Some, few, who may have the brains to go further back may reach the level of Holy roman and Byzantine...and/or Christianity and Islam.
The rare few go further back.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:05 pm

The ease by which the common modern mind settles for emotion, for sensation, for the learned (re)actions to imagery and symbols, is most evident when considering any subject involving disturbing consequences.
It cannot, or refuses, to go go beyond the sensation, the emotion, the feeling.

This is a quintessential marker of Modernity; it's most obvious symptom.

The mind;'s courage, its tolerance for the real, its psychological constitution, exemplified in how far back it is willing to pursue the causal chain, without succumbing to the temptation to skip steps and to make leaps of faith, or to just settle for what feels the best.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:25 pm

For the common Modern mind, trapped within this nihilistic binary logic, this dualism of anti-nature, anti-life, anti-reality, the concepts of Left/Right, and his understanding of them, represent the extent of his reasoning, his perceptual-event-horizon.

On both sides the usual images, icons, symbols, words.
Both sides representing an end, a nil, a finality, and yet opposed, theoretically, within this solipsistic self-referential, paradigm.
THIS is mental slavery.

What is it called?
Intuitive, because it reflects the simple method of neurological off/on switching.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:46 pm

The moment the noumenon, the abstraction, the symbol is detached from the phenomenon, the dynamic, the real, it can be anything...it is reversible, a matter of perspective, equalized in ignorance.

Time can flow forward or backward, it can stop altogether....or it may become something outside.
Everything is a matter of perspective where the mind imagines itself outside reality and find that from there it can manipulate existence, or nullify it completely.

With detachment the emotion becomes the only deciding factor.
The real factors involved cease to matter. What matters is what feelings are produced by the idea(l), and by the faces, personality being attached to it.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:23 pm

Sloterdijk wrote:
"The first extreme of dissolution – the self without a place – is probably approached most closely by the diaspora Judaism of the previous two millennia, which has been described not unjustly as a people without a land – a fact that Heinrich Heine put in a nutshell when he stated that the Jews are not at home in a country, but rather in a book: the Torah, which they carried with them like a ‘portable fatherland’.3 This profound and elegant comment illuminates a fact that is frequently passed over: ‘nomadizing’ or ‘deterritorialized’ groups construct their symbolic immunity and ethnic coherence not – or only marginally – from a supporting soil; rather, their communications amongst themselves act directly as an ‘autogenous vessel’4 in which the participants are enclosed and stay in shape, while the group moves through external landscapes. A landless people rooted in a scriptural tradition, therefore, cannot fall prey to the misconception that has imposed itself on virtually all settled groups throughout human history: understanding the land itself as the container of the people, and viewing their native soil as the a priori of their life's meaning or their identity. This territorial fallacy endures as one of the effective and problematic heirlooms of the sedentary age, as the basic reflex underlying all seemingly legitimate applications of political force. Indeed what is termed ‘national defence’ relates directly to it. National defence is based on the obsessive equation of place and self – the axiomatic logical error of territorialized reason (which struck the great majority of Israeli citizens after 1948 as a desirable one to make). This error has increasingly been exposed since an unprecedented wave of transnational mobility began to ensure that peoples and territories everywhere qualify their liaison. The trend towards a multi-local self is characteristic of advanced modernity – like the trend towards a polyethnic or denationalized place.

As far as Judaism during its period of exile is concerned, its provocation lay in the fact that it constantly reminded the peoples of the Western hemisphere of the seeming paradox and actual scandal of a factually existing self without a place.

At the other extreme, the phenomenon of the place without a self becomes increasingly clear. The earth's uninhabitable regions – the white deserts (polar world), the grey ones (high mountains), the green ones (jungles), the yellow ones (sand deserts) and the blue deserts (oceans) – are paradigmatic of this extreme ‘selflessness’; the secondary manmade deserts can be placed alongside them. In the context of our investigation of spheric conditions, the latter are of interest by way of contrast as they constitute places with which people do not usually develop any cultivating relationship, let alone attempt any identification. This applies to all transit spaces, in both the narrower and wider sense of the term, be they facilities intended for traffic such as train stations, docks and airports, roads, squares and shopping centres, or complexes designed for limited stays such as holiday villages and tourist cities, factory premises or night shelters. Such places may have their own atmospheres – but these do not depend on a populace or collective self that would be at home in them. By definition, they do not hold on to those who pass through them. They are the alternately overrun or empty no man's lands; the transit deserts that proliferate in the enucleated centres and hybrid peripheries of contemporary ‘societies’.

The protest against globalization is also globalization itself – it is part of the inevitable and indispensable immune reaction of local organs to infections through the larger format of the world.

The axiom of the individualistic immune order gained currency in populations of selfcentred individuals like some new vital insight: that, ultimately, no one would do for them what they do not do for themselves. The new immunity techniques (in their institutional centre, private insurances and pension funds, and at their individual periphery, dietetics and biotechnology) presented themselves as existential strategies for ‘societies’ of individuals in which the long road to flexibilization, the weakening of ‘object relationships’ and the general authorization of disloyal or reversible inter-human relationships had led to the ‘goal’, to what Spengler rightly prophesied as the final stage of every culture: the state in which it is impossible to determine whether individuals are diligent or decadent (but diligent in what respect, and decadent in relation to which height?). It is the state in which individuals have lost their ability of exemplary world formation.

In this context the epochal trend towards individualistic life forms reveals its immunological significance: today, in advanced ‘societies’, it is individuals who – perhaps for the first time in the history of hominid coexistence – break away from their group bodies as carriers of immune competencies, groups which had to that point functioned primarily as protection. They seek in great numbers to disconnect their happiness and unhappiness from the being-in-shape of the political commune. We are now experiencing what is probably the irreversible transformation of political security collectives into groups with individualistic immune designs.

The individualized humans behaved as if they had realized that the optimum immunization cannot be attained by absorbing ‘the world’ in a multi-faceted way, but rather by defining one's contact with it very narrowly. As a result, the last metaphorical difference, namely the distinction between noble and common, lost its meaning. The end of the heroic age of discovery and creation was also the end of great men, those allencompassing individuals who seemed capable of unifying their respective epochs and collectives in themselves. They were followed by the individualistic cycle in which everyone made themselves their own speciality. The consequences are well known. One of them was that the anthropological phantom of the Modern Age, l’homme monde – the microcosmic, the variously receptive and expressive, the complete human – disappeared like a face drawn in sand at the edge of the sea." [The World Interior of Capitalism]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:52 pm

I've said this before but it belongs here so I'll repeat it...

The loss of self, the past being rejected, forgotten, makes the modern shameless.
It escapes its shaming past not by personal effort, to make amends, but by rejecting, denying.
Christian denial of life and redemption through death, is a form of escaping this past/nature.
Such a man has no capacity to be noble....in fact he laughs at the idea, using his cynicism as defensive mockery.
And because he is shameless he is not bound by any principle that would limit his (inter)activity.
Only law, the threat of an immediate cost, can control him.

He is also unbound by reality.
His words, and abstractions need not refer to anything real, nothing experienced....
The real has no effect inside his artificial cocooned alternate reality - he is often surprised and perplexed when it does, despite human efforts to intervene.
The world, in general, is perplexing to such a sheltered mind.
He is free to invent just about anything he wishes to identify with, or to strive towards.
The perfect minion.
The noumenon being unfettered from the phenomenal can take on any form imaginable.
Probability released from order, acquiring infinite possibilities.  
And so Moderns are characterized by shallow multiplicity, and shamelessness - this is their 'individuality' and their 'uniqueness'.
Whereas reality limits what a mind can imagine or presuppose, this is not so for the Modern who has become detached from the determining world, and the immutable past.
His only restraint is emotion, and its manipulation.

Moderns are bound by nothing outside self, and their immediate needs, and the system that protects them from the dire repercussions of such a delusional attitude.  
They become staunch protectors of the system that offers them the "right" to remain as delusional and schizophrenic as they wish, if they pay their dues and follow the rules - pure utility.
They are answerable to nothing and nobody, besides this utility.

They become demanding, and gain a sense of entitlement, because they pay their dues to remain obtuse...and they demand what they've paid for. The real is a product they can plug into and choose what character to play.
Everything becomes pretense, an act...and so he, in his cynical wisdom, considers all just as superficial as his own identity.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:15 am

Was Plato a symptom of Hellenic decline?
Was his depiction of Socrates end stage of a culture in decay?

Plato that later combined with Judaism to give birth to Christianity, which Nietzsche opposed, worshiped by those who remain in his shadow, reinterpreting his every word to fit into their desired outcome.

Could they have integrated Heraclitus into that dis'ease of the mind as easily?
Would the two have matched or would they have pushed each other away, unable to be integrated into a new solution, like water and oil.

Did Plato admire the Spartan creed, like many "sophisticated" Athenians did?
Was he a Democrat?

Plato's ideals, and that other-world where we pluck them from...what rubbish.
Who can escape from the Cave when he fears the Apollonian light?  
He need not be tied up, at all. He will remain transfixed in the shadow realm where, perhaps, only Dionysus can lend him comfort.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:17 am

That this Nihilistic dogma would emerge where it did, amongst the Semites, is purely circumstantial, and it speaks of the Jewish genius, nurtured by suffering.

As [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and others have noted, Jewishness is not a racial category, not a genetic designation, but a memetic one.
That this meme has made headway in becoming a genetic designation exposes the power of meme, when they can enforce strict sexual practices and create a memetic genetic isolation which is necessary to splinter off bloodlines.

In our time the Jew is associated with the Ashkenazim branch.
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They represent the Jewish elite...ironically a European branch.
How Jews settled in Europe and then mixed with the locals is a historical matter.
That they remained distinct for centuries, not unlike the Gypsies, is also a historical matter which can also be explained culturally.

Although the first two types of Jews sell ideas they do not practice themselves, the third type is totally dedicated to uniformity as its means of salvation from nature/past.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:27 pm

Let me be clear....Christians, Muslims, and the more current secular manifestations of Marxists and Liberals, as well as Bible-thumping Conservatives and/or money-hungry, right-wing types, are all part of the Jewish mind-set, as all are byproducts of Nihilism and Modernity.

Nihilism has monopolized both sides of the dualistic spectrum so as to pretend it is open-minded and interested in reality.
In the U.S. in particular the Democratic secular liberal "left" and the Republican Christian conservative "right" are both part of the same meme.
They both express an aversion to anything real (nature, past) outside of their shared paradigm, and are currently converging in dogma (ideals, principles, goals) and diverging in interests, and methods.

The real antithesis to both is never allowed entrance in their binary logic.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:12 pm

Satyr wrote:
Was Plato a symptom of Hellenic decline?

Plato that later combined with Judaism to give birth to Christianity,
Could they have integrated Heraclitus into that dis'ease of the mind as easily?
Plato's ideals, and that other-world where we pluck them from...what rubbish.


Plato himself was seen as a heresy and could be adopted into Xt. only with linguistic falsifications and re-renderings and corruption of words:

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:34 pm

Are you saying there was nothing in Plato's thinking that could be easily integrated into a monotheistic, nihilistic, dogma?

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:07 pm

Satyr wrote:
Are you saying there was nothing in Plato's thinking that could be easily integrated into a monotheistic, nihilistic, dogma?

I was showing one of the ways it was integrated - by tampering and falsification of words.



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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Are you saying there was nothing in Plato's thinking that could be easily integrated into a monotheistic, nihilistic, dogma?

I was showing one of the ways it was integrated - by tampering and falsification of words.



No, you were implying that this was the only reason his thinking was integrated into Christianity.

Was Socrates a monotheist or not?
Was Plato a disciple of Parmenides or closer to Heraclitus?

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:37 pm

Satyr wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Are you saying there was nothing in Plato's thinking that could be easily integrated into a monotheistic, nihilistic, dogma?

I was showing one of the ways it was integrated - by tampering and falsification of words.



No, you were implying that this was the only reason his thinking was integrated into Christianity.

I said, "Plato... could be adopted into Xt. only with linguistic falsifications and re-renderings and corruption of words...",,, as in, only with distortions and text falsifications, could they christianize Plato, else the need to distort would have been unnecessary. How could they present Plato intuiting the coming of Christ or Socrates as some proto-Christ if they were to convert the locals?
Saying that does not automatically mean I think Platonism did not have its own strain of nihilism.

Plato's nihilistic strain revolved around eros, Xt. nihilism revolved around agape; Norman Brown in his 'Life against Death':

Quote :
"The Platonic Eros is the child of defect or want. Its direction is away from the insufficient self; its aim is to possess the object which completes it (there is a Platonic residue in Freud's inadequate notion of object-choice). The Christian Agape, with its self-sacrificial structure, has the same basis in the insufficiency of the self, but in it the self can be completed by no object and therefore must be extinguished. In the words of Luther, "To love is the same as to hate one-self"; in the words of St. Augustine, "Love slays what we have been that we may be what we were not."
From the psychoanalytical point of view, Platonic Eros is inseparable from an aggressive component, Christian Agape inseparable from a masochistic component."


Quote :
Was Plato a disciple of Parmenides or closer to Heraclitus?

Plato fused two lines of thinking: he relegated Heraclitean world-view to the sensible world, and Paramenidean world-view to the intelligible world. He does this because by the time of Parmenides, if you refer to Detienne's 'Masters of Truth in Archaic Greece',  the notion of Aletheia by the time it came down to Parmenides was polarized with lethe in the gravity of Immortality and the region of Light and remembrance,,, and mortality and the region of darkness and oblivion. The Homeric warrior legacy extolled the highest realm of the best and the excellent, 'arete' was the attaining of kleos, fame, light, immortality as the most superior realm. Such an immortal was perpetually 'beautiful' in deeds. This was 'true being', where kleos never vanishes and the 'good' is 'ever-living'. Coming from this background, Plato extends the realm of such 'beautiful warriors' from the physical to the intellectual. Heraclitean legacy has already said, "I searched myself"... knowing self, one knows all.
Between being and death, immortality and oblivion, the 'best' strive for this 'perfect form', the 'imperishable'.

Heraclitus had said,
"This world-order [kosmos], the same of all, no god nor man did create, but it ever was and is and will be: everliving fire, kindling in measures and being quenched in measures."

Fire changes forms, but the form itself of law is never destroyed.

The Vedas and Buddha use the example of the 'hidden fire' that reveals itself or comes to presence when struck.
Although the fire is extinguished, the form or the logic of it is never destroyed. Aletheia is such a realm of the suprasensous invisible which discloses itself under certain conditions/circumstances. (I don't have a soft copy of Detienne's book, but its a good one on the semantic history of Aletheia).

Platonism takes it downhill from there. And Xt. mutates it into something else along with Heraclitean and Pythagorean re-incarnation notions of one thing changing into many forms, magian influences, gnostic and neo-platonic corruptions and jewish revelation, etc.


Quote :
Was Socrates a monotheist or not?

Socrates wanted to stabilize a polis and homeric myths of gods were teaching the revolt of zeus against cronos, that were being used as examples and excuses for barbaric in-feud. He denied the reality of the gods to the extent lay minds were interpreting it literally and was condemned for sacrificing the piety of the city for the piety of the family.
The esoteric Socrates was no monotheist. The exoteric Socrates according to Lampert is influenced by the Zoroastrian monotheistic teachings of a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:55 pm

From the essay "Nietzsche Contra Heraclitus"

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Quote :
...This world
is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this
will to power—and nothing besides! (WM 1067)

Quite a long quotation, but a characteristic one. It reveals a habit of which
Nietzsche is probably unaware. The whole imagery is Heraclitean. The world
is a cyclic, mutating totality, juxtaposition of one and many, arising and
destruction, flux full of inner contradictions, and finally a ring and becoming.
It is probably the most Heraclitean description of will to power. Nietzsche
tries to write in a Heraclitean style, creates the background that enables the
reader to understand will to power as becoming. But the whole argument is
not sound just because he uses his definite term “will to power.”

But first we have to make a small and important remark. The useful term
“becoming” cannot be found in Heraclitus’s text. It has been created by the
commentators, but Heraclitus himself could not use it. The reason is obvious:
Heraclitus did not believe in grammar.

What does it mean? If Heraclitus struggles to think in the perspective of
the complete lack of being, in a non-ontological perspective, then he can never
use the same term because such a concept will create a fiction of an unchanging
basis of reality grasped by that concept. The only thing Heraclitus does
is multiply contradictions as examples of flux to avoid using the same term
that indicates something constant in the background of every contradiction
(now even the term “contradiction” should be rejected). If we try to describe
every single contradiction with a common name, this name then erases the
two opposites, which cannot be reduced to and grasped in one concept. They
must remain different, so we cannot use one term to describe them both. This
is the leveling of something that cannot be leveled—this is falsehood indicated
by Nietzsche: “Denken wir besonders noch an die Bildung der Begriffe.
Jedes Wort wird sofort dadurch Begriff, daβ es eben nicht für das einmalige
ganz und gar individualisierte Urerlebnis, dem es sein Entstehen verdankt,
etwa als Erinnerung dienen soll, sondern zugleich für zahllose mehr oder
weniger ähnliche, das heiβt streng genommen niemals gleiche, also auf lauter
ungleiche Fälle passen muβ. Jeder Begriff entsteht durch Gleichsetzen des
Nichtgleichen.”8 In our case, the term “becoming” levels two opposites of
the contradiction and levels every contradiction that is unique and irreducible
to another contradiction. The concept of becoming petrifies nature.

Now we see that the phrase “will to power” used as an equivalent of becoming
is equally improper. Unfortunately, Nietzsche uses it too often. In his
famous description, Nietzsche wants to find the name for the unnamable, and
that is what Heraclitus did not try to do. It expresses the opposite way of
thinking. The whole listing of Heraclitean metaphors is ultimately useless,
since it is annulled with the name that should be abandoned and not repeated.
Nietzsche should deny the previously used name or reject names as concepts;
otherwise he will think stability into the flux. And he seems to be aware of
that second option. He tries to avoid concepts. Therefore, he should reject
the term “will,” and so he does: “The means of expression of language are
useless for expressing ‘becoming’; it accords with our inevitable need to preserve
ourselves to posit a crude world of stability, of ‘things,’ etc. [. . .] There
is no will: there are treaty drafts of will [Willens-Punktationen] that are constantly
increasing or losing their power” (WM 715). But here again, Nietzsche
does it a little bit too fast or takes one step too many. When he wants to say
that there is no will, he explains the lack of it with will once again—with the
punctuations of will, with the same power everywhere. His language says
something he does not want to say. He is unable to construct the postulated
discourse, because he still believes in grammar. He uses the term “punctuations
of will” that reinstaurates common, constant ground, that he tries to
reject in the same moment. Once again, “change, war, conflict” is thought
with something that is made unchanging by the language itself. Once again,
he makes the same Schopenhauerian error we have discovered in Philosophy
in the Tragic Age of the Greeks.

In the case of flux, Nietzsche’s style is the proof that he thinks his thoughts
but does not experience them. Or maybe his experience of becoming was not
strong enough to find its expression in the realization of Nietzschean, sharp
declarations concerning the language of philosophy. Heraclitean experience
(which finally appears to be very far from Nietzschean experience) makes
people silent or compels them to speak with contradictions and Nietzsche is
not so contradictory. He tries, but in the end his contradictions are too mild
to be Heraclitean; they are only quasi-contradictions stemming from the belief
in grammar. The Heraclitean fire burns up all names and Nietzsche is not a
philosophical pyrotechnist.
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:08 pm

perpetualburn wrote:
From the essay "Nietzsche Contra Heraclitus"

Full PDF here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
...This world
is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this
will to power—and nothing besides! (WM 1067)

Quite a long quotation, but a characteristic one. It reveals a habit of which
Nietzsche is probably unaware. The whole imagery is Heraclitean. The world
is a cyclic, mutating totality, juxtaposition of one and many, arising and
destruction, flux full of inner contradictions, and finally a ring and becoming.
It is probably the most Heraclitean description of will to power. Nietzsche
tries to write in a Heraclitean style, creates the background that enables the
reader to understand will to power as becoming. But the whole argument is
not sound just because he uses his definite term “will to power.”

But first we have to make a small and important remark. The useful term
“becoming” cannot be found in Heraclitus’s text. It has been created by the
commentators, but Heraclitus himself could not use it. The reason is obvious:
Heraclitus did not believe in grammar.

What does it mean? If Heraclitus struggles to think in the perspective of
the complete lack of being, in a non-ontological perspective, then he can never
use the same term because such a concept will create a fiction of an unchanging
basis of reality grasped by that concept. The only thing Heraclitus does
is multiply contradictions as examples of flux to avoid using the same term
that indicates something constant in the background of every contradiction
(now even the term “contradiction” should be rejected). If we try to describe
every single contradiction with a common name, this name then erases the
two opposites, which cannot be reduced to and grasped in one concept. They
must remain different, so we cannot use one term to describe them both. This
is the leveling of something that cannot be leveled—this is falsehood indicated
by Nietzsche: “Denken wir besonders noch an die Bildung der Begriffe.
Jedes Wort wird sofort dadurch Begriff, daβ es eben nicht für das einmalige
ganz und gar individualisierte Urerlebnis, dem es sein Entstehen verdankt,
etwa als Erinnerung dienen soll, sondern zugleich für zahllose mehr oder
weniger ähnliche, das heiβt streng genommen niemals gleiche, also auf lauter
ungleiche Fälle passen muβ. Jeder Begriff entsteht durch Gleichsetzen des
Nichtgleichen.”8 In our case, the term “becoming” levels two opposites of
the contradiction and levels every contradiction that is unique and irreducible
to another contradiction. The concept of becoming petrifies nature.

Now we see that the phrase “will to power” used as an equivalent of becoming
is equally improper. Unfortunately, Nietzsche uses it too often. In his
famous description, Nietzsche wants to find the name for the unnamable, and
that is what Heraclitus did not try to do. It expresses the opposite way of
thinking. The whole listing of Heraclitean metaphors is ultimately useless,
since it is annulled with the name that should be abandoned and not repeated.
Nietzsche should deny the previously used name or reject names as concepts;
otherwise he will think stability into the flux. And he seems to be aware of
that second option. He tries to avoid concepts. Therefore, he should reject
the term “will,” and so he does: “The means of expression of language are
useless for expressing ‘becoming’; it accords with our inevitable need to preserve
ourselves to posit a crude world of stability, of ‘things,’ etc. [. . .] There
is no will: there are treaty drafts of will [Willens-Punktationen] that are constantly
increasing or losing their power” (WM 715). But here again, Nietzsche
does it a little bit too fast or takes one step too many. When he wants to say
that there is no will, he explains the lack of it with will once again—with the
punctuations of will, with the same power everywhere. His language says
something he does not want to say. He is unable to construct the postulated
discourse, because he still believes in grammar. He uses the term “punctuations
of will” that reinstaurates common, constant ground, that he tries to
reject in the same moment. Once again, “change, war, conflict” is thought
with something that is made unchanging by the language itself. Once again,
he makes the same Schopenhauerian error we have discovered in Philosophy
in the Tragic Age of the Greeks.

In the case of flux, Nietzsche’s style is the proof that he thinks his thoughts
but does not experience them. Or maybe his experience of becoming was not
strong enough to find its expression in the realization of Nietzschean, sharp
declarations concerning the language of philosophy. Heraclitean experience
(which finally appears to be very far from Nietzschean experience) makes
people silent or compels them to speak with contradictions and Nietzsche is
not so contradictory. He tries, but in the end his contradictions are too mild
to be Heraclitean; they are only quasi-contradictions stemming from the belief
in grammar. The Heraclitean fire burns up all names and Nietzsche is not a
philosophical pyrotechnist.




I don't agree with this conclusion, as N. makes it explicitly clear in WTP, 1066:

"The new world-conception.- The world exists; it is not something that becomes, not something that passes away. Or rather: it becomes, it passes away, but it has never begun to become and never ceased from passing away-it maintains itself in both.- It lives on itself: its excrements are its food."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:04 am

Metaphorical Binary System and their pre-Modernity spiritual anthropomorphic Symbolism


The Christian Tale

In this story God is the representation of absolute order, the singularity which exists in the past/nature, but is outside nature as nature is a process towards chaos and chaos is the contradiction to God's order.

Order is probability, and in this case absolute order is defined by the singularity of 1, which leaves no room for any other possibility.
Then Satan appears. He is the yin, to God's yang, the nil, to His oneness.  

Satan exposes God's flaw, which is himself, to man.
Possibilities expand.
Now man can hope to either belong to God's order, or to replace God's order - the feminine/masculine (re)action to the tyranny of God's singular order.
Having been exposed to this truth, this knowledge, man can no longer remain safe and content in God's order (paradise).
Man, already knows too much: God's flaw.

Satan is man's benefactor, or his opposer, depending on if you wish to remain in god's order, enjoying Paradise, or you wish to be free from it, and create your own order.
But to be free means you will be exposed to suffering, or the struggle to maintain yourself within the chaos Satan exposed you to.
Here we see the paradoxical relationship of order and chaos in man.
Although chaos opens up possibilities, it does so by destroying the order already present, creating suffering, which forces man to reconstruct himself anew.

Satan seduces man by manipulating his vanity.
Man, in fact, can never be an absolute god, because God, himself, was never absolute, never perfect.
Satan, as a representation of god's flaw, also represents man's flaws in relation to the idea(l) which god pretends to be.
Satan simply opens man's eyes to the reality of God's pretense, built on words.
Now man can use words to mechanize, construct, his own order.
Satan gave him this opportunity and as a payment he asks for man's soul.

The soul, the spirit, is another way of saying past/nature, which when projected far enough back to the source, means God.
Nature as this immutable, determining, indifferent past, is destroyed, by appropriating words which no longer belong to this pretentious, lying God.
Man can now use words, codes, numbers, to escape his past, his nature, and reform himself in whatever way possible.
Possibilities increasing means chaos increases.
This, in turn, created the multiplicity of options, of idea(l)s, represented in the pagan system as deities, and in the secular world as choices, as products to be purchased and worn as new identities.
Multiplicity of options creates the multiplicity of idea(l)s which, in turn, creates the different types of human order, or political, spiritual, philosophical systems, and the only price for it is, yes, need/suffering, the experience of chaos and the agon to self-order.
So, man is seeking the god-head inside of him, only this time he wants to do a better job of it.
Words, once more, become pretentious, lies, chimeras.            

Could it be that the Jews rejected the Christian God of order because they worshiped Satan, his nemesis, the agency of chaos, resulting in its absolute end, as absolute randomness, where no order remains and all becomes uniformly possible?
Worshiping magic, words being magical incantations, and their hatred of nature, of self, would indicate that it might be so.
For the Jew Satan (a Jewish name for the devil) is a supporter of his desire to escape nature/past.

But are Christians exempt from this Jewish heritage?
No.
Christians, and Muslims, simply proposed the discovery of order which exists "outside" the time/space continuum, escaping Satan by redefining God's singularity as separate from the world itself.
So, the flaw in god was blamed on man, on life, on existence itself, offering non-existence as salvation.
Satan, for the Christians is not God's antagonist, his flaw, but a toy, a ploy to test man, or to expose man to his own flaws; the Satan inside of him that displaced God inside the soul of man.
Man is too flawed for God's grace, because he has the daemon in him, and this totalitarian non-existent, word, god, will have nothing less than complete surrender.
for the Jews, who passed on these word-games and saw the power in them, God is no less unyielding and non-existent, they only reject him already having come to destroy this world they find so wretched. They exist, to suffer, on His behalf, and Satan might be His representative; Satan as their Jesus.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:34 am

The manipulation of human fears, human vanity, human's being attracted to the path-of-least-resistance is what Jews are good at.

From Orgone pyramids to the magical power of words and numbers, the exploitation of stupidity is their main focus.
Magical phrases, symbols of power, mystical forces emanating through ritualized repetition...the satanic occult world where Jesus is usurped and the Devil is the prophet preparing the world for the coming of the "real" messiah.

Turning value from an epistemology to an ontology is a classic example.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:15 am

Satyr wrote:
         

Could it be that the Jews rejected the Christian God of order because they worshiped Satan, his nemesis, the agency of chaos, resulting in its absolute end, as absolute randomness, where no order remains and all becomes uniformly possible?
Worshiping magic, words being magical incantations, and their hatred of nature, of self, would indicate that it might be so.
For the Jew Satan (a Jewish name for the devil) is a supporter of his desire to escape nature/past.

But are Christians exempt from this Jewish heritage?
No.
Christians, and Muslims, simply proposed the discovery of order which exists "outside" the time/space continuum, escaping Satan by redefining God's singularity as separate from the world itself.




To requote that same point by Hawkes, "The objectification of the subject (carnality) and the subjectification of the object (idolatry) are different aspects of one process".

Judaism is the former, while Xt. the latter.
The objectification of the subject as Heisman showed in the nature of Judaism is its nihilistic death-wish,, likewise, the fetish of idolatory in Xt., and the subjectification of the object solipsistically disconnects them from reality and lost in delusions of desiring to dis/re-place God.

Islam is a combination in the sense, it makes an idolatory of iconoclasm - it is Xt. judaized.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:29 pm

Sloterdijk wrote:
In this context the epochal trend towards individualistic life forms reveals its immunological significance: today, in advanced ‘societies’, it is individuals who – perhaps for the first time in the history of hominid coexistence – break away from their group bodies as carriers of immune competencies, groups which had to that point functioned primarily as protection. They seek in great numbers to disconnect their happiness and unhappiness from the being-in-shape of the political commune. We are now experiencing what is probably the irreversible transformation of political security collectives into groups with individualistic immune designs

Hawkes wrote:
A capitalist society requires a culture based on images. The camera’s twin capacities to subjectivize reality and to objectify it ideally serve these needs and strengthen them. The production of images also furnishes a ruling ideology. Social change is replaced by a change in images. The freedom to consume a plurality of images and goods is equated with freedom itself. The narrowing of free political choice to free economic consumption requires the unlimited production and consumption of images.


In order to be "in-shape" with the world now you don't need to be connected with the political commune, and something like Islam with its expansionist aims and moving populations displacing or at least never "seriously" altering its host countries culture and demographics, is simply a yet-to-be consumed "image" created by media, an image that reflects a self with no place, a happy future for greater immunity, that ironically tries to consume an Islamic self that needs ever more place.  And I'm sure the media's capacity to "subjectivize reality and to objectify" works very nicely with this idea that Islam is "Xt. judaized" and setting up consumable "others" with infantile expansionist ideals as worthy of fighting against with all the might of the individualized immune system in order to maintain our "freedom."  Bad wars depleting vital energy and increasing the individualized immune system maybe.  Almost like this is only way for the western military to keep its muscles conditioned in much the same way that Hollywood churning out garbage is its excuse it gives so it can fund the real "choice" "art" films, the ones that manage to "slip through" that we should be so fortunate to enjoy given our endless "freedom of choice"...So media depleting vital energy by promoting drawn out wars that keep our military "fresh" so it can "protect" us from caricatures by more creating more appealing caricatures, images that overturn so fast that keeping our health is continually tied to "pledging our allegiance" to the most "competitive" but "secure" enough to be dispensed with for "greater health" image.
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:40 pm

perpetualburn wrote:
Sloterdijk wrote:
In this context the epochal trend towards individualistic life forms reveals its immunological significance: today, in advanced ‘societies’, it is individuals who – perhaps for the first time in the history of hominid coexistence – break away from their group bodies as carriers of immune competencies, groups which had to that point functioned primarily as protection. They seek in great numbers to disconnect their happiness and unhappiness from the being-in-shape of the political commune. We are now experiencing what is probably the irreversible transformation of political security collectives into groups with individualistic immune designs

Hawkes wrote:
A capitalist society requires a culture based on images. The camera’s twin capacities to subjectivize reality and to objectify it ideally serve these needs and strengthen them. The production of images also furnishes a ruling ideology. Social change is replaced by a change in images. The freedom to consume a plurality of images and goods is equated with freedom itself. The narrowing of free political choice to free economic consumption requires the unlimited production and consumption of images.


In order to be "in-shape" with the world now you don't need to be connected with the political commune, and something like Islam with its expansionist aims and moving populations displacing or at least never "seriously" altering its host countries culture and demographics, is simply a yet-to-be consumed "image" created by media, an image that reflects a self with no place, a happy future for greater immunity, that ironically tries to consume an Islamic self that needs ever more place.  And I'm sure the media's capacity to "subjectivize reality and to objectify" works very nicely with this idea that Islam is "Xt. judaized" and setting up consumable "others" with infantile expansionist ideals as worthy of fighting against with all the might of the individualized immune system in order to maintain our "freedom."  Bad wars depleting vital energy and increasing the individualized immune system maybe.  Almost like this is only way for the western military to keep its muscles conditioned in much the same way that Hollywood churning out garbage is its excuse it gives so it can fund the real "choice" "art" films, the ones that manage to "slip through" that we should be so fortunate to enjoy given our endless "freedom of choice"...So media depleting vital energy by promoting drawn out wars that keep our military "fresh" so it can "protect" us from caricatures by more creating more appealing caricatures, images that overturn so fast that keeping our health is continually tied to "pledging our allegiance" to the most "competitive" but "secure" enough to be dispensed with for "greater health" image.



I say Islam is Xt. Judaized, because it takes the concept of Xt. "brotherhood" and then the aggressive expansion is founded on the jewish culture of "victimhood" - they the underdogs, etc. Within the frame of Sloterdijk, you are right in that the War on Terror in media-mediated-reality has heightened a need for collective immunology all over Europe and not just America - the need for "stronger leadership" is a need for that secure sphere in the absence of God. And Sloterdijk is only too perceptive to show the farce in exporting God-spheres, "democracies"
to other places:

"One can now understand why the way of life that weakens allegiances and reinforces options leads to a psychopolitical rearrangement of clientele in the comfort spheres of the Western and Westernized world – extending to the post-monotheistic remodelling of religious sentiment. Let it be noted: the Christianity of today is part-time monotheism, and the same applies to Judaism and Islam – even though these stagnating religions, which are forced to fall back on self-regulation and the cultivation of traditions, also have pronounced fundamentalist elements whose spokesmen, usually professional believers, like to pretend that God still has a use for the whole human being. In truth, money has long since proved itself as an operatively successful alternative to God." [World Interior of Capitalism]


Money is the modern form and ground of self-confidence - the ability to purchase almost anything. This is the logic "in" [not of] Islam's attack --- to put a dent in that capitalism and disturb that comfort and invade micro-spherical securities, a slap for every modernist whose bravado emerges from his bank account. The illusion of Comfort:

"The fact remains that both the Father and Mother have disappeared, and in favour of a matrix/code [the word "matrice" means both "matrix" and "womb"].
No more mother, just a matrix." [Baudrillard, Seduction]


From Baudrillard's pov., diminishing micro-spheres enlarge the hyper-real.

"Ecstasy of the social: the masses. More social than the social.
Ecstasy of the body: obesity. Fatter than fat.
Ecstasy of information: simulation. Truer than true.
Ecstasy of time: real time, instantaneity. More present than the present.
Ecstasy of the real: the hyperreal. More real than the real.
Ecstasy of sex: porn. More sexual than sex.
Ecstasy of violence: terror. More violent than violence. . . .

All this describes, by a kind of potentiation, a raising to the second power, a pushing to the limit, a state of unconditional realization, of total positivity (every negative sign raised to the second power produces a positive), from which all utopia, all death, and all negativity have been expunged. A state of ex-termination, cleansing of the negative, as corollary to all the other actual forms of purification and discrimination. Thus, freedom has been obliterated, liquidated by liberation; truth has been supplanted by verification; the community has been liquidated and absorbed by communication; form gives way to information and performance. Everywhere we see a paradoxical logic: the idea is destroyed by its own realization, by its own excess. And in this way history itself comes to an end, finds itself obliterated by the instantaneity and omnipresence of the event." [Baudrillard, Vital Illusion]


I think finding the divine-within and ascetic discipline in becoming our own god and saviour as is Sloterdijk's libertarian solution is a good means on an individual level, but has repercussions on a socio-cultural level. Without grand goals, nihilism ensues and grand goals are always thymotic, involve exploitation, destruction, and then we are back to square one. Its the reason why Sloterdijk has to slyly sell a picture of one-world humanity united in a common goal against some problems that threatens or risks the whole - be it ecology or hypothetical other planetaries, etc.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:05 am

Mike, Gane ['Baudrillard's Bestiary'] wrote:
The problem today is to begin to analyse the new nature of this work.
This is best done by following its own disengagement with its purposes, a perspective that can also make work appear as something distinct from any particular job or position, on the pattern of an ambience.
Work itself today has become something abstract and interchangeable. It has become a code which seeks to fix the particular positions in ‘work’; it is an abstract ‘operator’ which extends across the whole institutional sphere, even if the concrete meaning of work has passed irretrievably into history.
With this increasing abstraction come ideas of job enrichment, deepening the quality of working life, even job ‘personalization’ and job sharing: everyone is to be embraced in a new and total framework of participation and manipulation.
The previous system with its direct buying and selling of labour has been transformed, now the conception of consumption predominates even in the sphere of production.
Previously, as in Marx, consumption had to be understood as having its place determined by production. Now it is…

‘…the opposite. We must conceive of the entire sphere of production, of work and the productive forces, as afloat in the sphere of ‘consumption’ understood as a generalised axiomatic of the coded exchange of signs.

In this new phase, then, the old equivalences disappear: the wage is no longer related to the performance of a specific kind of labour, except as the reproduction of previous expenditure. Now the performance of labour, as work, is more like a simple ritual, a ‘baptism’ which turns the individual into a citizen.

According to Baudrillard consumption is now the dominance force in capitalist systems, not production: materialism, hedonism...the manufacturing of needs, and pleasures associated with gratifying these needs.
Slaves to their own needs, is what wage-slaves have become, changing the nature of word and eliminating the Marxist relationship based no labor exploitation.


Mike, Gane wrote:
When the dramatic transition occurs, and production is dominated by reproduction, production is no longer dominated by production for use or for exchange. The paradox must be grasped in full irony, he insists. The worker reproduces his own ‘work’. And all consumption has become reproductive consumption (leisure is indistinguishable from work), and all economic sectors, like the service sector, become as ‘productive’ as industry.
In this new order capitalism is not dominated by the money form, or by reification, but is a pure social relation: production must be seen (as it always was, in fact, but now above all) as a modality of reproduction of the code.
Previously this productive modality was predominant, but now reproduction is the dominant mode of reproduction itself.

Those inside the paradigm are trapped within its mythologies and cannot perceive what is occurring until the process reaches a certain degree...as with need, it remains unconscious, below the level where it will disturb consciousnesses, demanding  attention.
Those on the periphery see it first, and are then mocked as being whiners by those still trapped in the paradigm, accusing them of complaining because they, being on the periphery, for any reason, cannot be, like them, in the center of the system.


Mike, Gane wrote:
One of the crucial and revelatory effects of the displacement of production towards reproduction was established in May ’68. This is clearly visible in the fact that it was the university faculties of social
and human sciences that were the points of explosion: it was these faculties which felt the first intimations of the new order of total uselessness and the new predominance of reproductive labour. The explosion cannot be seen as a blockage in the system of productive labour which acted as the closure of a pressure valve in the system, except in the sense that real productive work was no longer available, for the system as a whole cannot offer genuine ‘work’ any more.
The first intimations of the new order were registered in the ‘superstructure’, in the sphere of university culture which recognized the end of an historical epoch. This recognition soon spread
throughout society, and all social struggles are influenced by it. At first the young, the marginal, those at the edges of the system registered it in the strongest terms. The last groups to become aware of these changes are the traditional working-class groups who have been trained on all sides to think of labour as productive, even the source of all social wealth (Marx).

Value detaches from production, from the process of producing something of use, within the environment.

Mike, Gane wrote:
The production of use values is really only an ideological formation which transposes itself into a moral ideal.

It attains an ontology of its own, which is then used to explain or to produce production, to (re)produce it.
Production does not infuse the object with value, but now value preexists the object and is already infused with it, leading to it being produced, as an effect of the value already present in the worker.

Value precedes the emergence of the object, the phenomenon. no longer a juxtaposition of one with an other, within the context of the environment, in this case the human system, but now a juxtaposition of a human need (natural, drive), with an artificial projection of a hypothetical object/objective that promises to satisfy this need, or needs.
This creates the artificiality of a want, connected to primitive instinctive, organic needs, but in an abstracted, indirect way...as symbol, code.
The value of the desired, the want, is presupposed, within a system of relationships, and social hierarchies, accentuated with marketing (repetition, symbolic references to natural needs).  
once value precedes the production of the object it has already presupposed the work, sacrifice, required to bring it about as something detached from this effort.
The work must now rise to meet the value present.
And value can be manufactured.
It is now not a juxtaposition between phenomena, but between a need/want and a projected idea...a noetic, abstracted, juxtaposition.

This reflects the general nihilistic inversion characterizing Modernity.
From a psychological perspective the individual's value is already presupposed, forced only to meet an idealized standard which is artificially produced, and reflects socioeconomic hierarchies.
It is the value that brings about the organism, not the organism that evaluates self and otherness in relation to self and otherness.

In Baurdrillard's thesis on the consumer society it is consumption that brings about production, and not consumption that must adjust to production, creating value.  
Manipulating consumption by creating needs, wants, desires, is the driving force of this new world Capitalism.
Exploitation reversed.



Mike, Gane wrote:
This discussion of reproduction is seen as a specific case of the displacement of political economy by the structural law of value as a simulation model. This theme is developed vigorously, not as a simple argument that the ‘economic’ as such has disappeared from view, but rather that the cash nexus now appears directly in view as an obscenity. This is discussed in relation to recent bank advertising.
This states blatently: your money interests me—give and take—let me take your money and I will make you profit from my bank (Baudrillard 1976:53–4).
Now, at first sight of course this looks like a direct appeal to the reciprocity of exchange. But
Baudrillard is not concerned with this. His analysis suggests that what is in evidence here is a departure from all previous restraint in advertising in the knowledge that there was a certain age-old immorality in profiting from interest.

.....Everyone can fix their eyes on money as if it were a sexual object. The
technique, he notes taking the point to an obscenity himself, is one of ‘perverse provocation’, as if the bank were saying, in Baudrillard’s words, your arse interests me, give me your buttocks and I will bugger you and you will enjoy it (1976:54).
It is quite different in intensity from the advertisement of a competing bank which simply expresses the view that it is the customer who should have the smile not the banker, now seen to be a ploy belonging to a previous era of advertising, but of course Baudrillard is interested not in any constraining effect this may have, only in the logic of the obscenity itself.

....It is now possible to return to reproduction, since some of the patterns of exchange are clarified if the relation between capital and labour is looked at in this, extremely unusual, even perverse, version of exchange theory, taken, in a way that defines Baudrillard’s distinctiveness as a theorist, to the limit: death.
In a sense the violence of physical exploitation of the worker pales into insignificance in comparison with the violence perpetrated against the symbolic order of the worker, for the main stake is always symbolic. All exchange between capital and labour presupposes the ‘extermination’ of objects, and it is only death, not labour power or abstract labour, that enables an equivalence to be established. In this case the workers’ death is not an immediate and sudden dangerous sacrifice: it is slow and prolonged.
The opposite of this kind of work is not leisure or free time. Its opposite is the total and immediate sacrifice. The liberation of the slave or serf has made possible the free worker; he is the slave ‘liberated’ for work.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:14 am

And what you said has everything to do with race and breeding, no matter how you word it. Appearing objective and sophisticated in your wording makes you no less of a jew-hater than any nazi or skinhead.
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:05 am

Sisyphus wrote:
And what you said has everything to do with race and breeding, no matter how you word it. Appearing objective and sophisticated in your wording makes you no less of a jew-hater than any nazi or skinhead.

Hate in an emotion women and children thrive on.
I do not hate the flu.
I do not hate hemorrhoids.

One may even be thankful there is a virus, an infection, to keep the immune system strong.

Hating the Jew is buying into his world-view. 

One does not hate a lion.
If entering his domain one is cautious and respectful...without wanting to be a lion.
One does not hate a chimpanzee.
But neither does he love it.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:21 am

White Nationalists and skinheads who blame other races and Jews for their misfortunes fail to take some accountability for their weakness to become subverted by the latter.
As Satyr pointed out: placing selective blame on the virus is one-sided, for if one were stronger one could fght it off or not become infected in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:36 pm

Would you consider Jews to be 'inorganic' rather than 'organic' like hellenes, other European peoples, or the Japanese. When I travelled to Japan I noticed the Japanese lived more 'organically', i.e. there are not many 'no loitering signs' and it was acceptable to stand still in public. In Judeo-Christian countries, one is not even allowed to stand still in public.
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:59 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Would you consider Jews to be 'inorganic' rather than 'organic' like hellenes, other European peoples, or the Japanese. When I travelled to Japan I noticed the Japanese lived more 'organically', i.e. there are not many 'no loitering signs' and it was acceptable to stand still in public. In Judeo-Christian countries, one is not even allowed to stand still in public.

I've already explained my positions on Jews.
That they became the conduits through which nihilism spread in the Indo-European world was coincidental.
At the right time, at the right place.

Their "genius" was in turning their shame/guilt into pride...and this characterizes nihilism, in general...this overturning of reality of hierarchies.
To do so they had to propose an alternative reality, the "outside" where their king, of kings resided "above/beyond" any earthly king.

From the downtrodden, salves of thirteen tribes they because seductive to all the downtrodden, slaves in all tribes.
It's why they had to stop proselytizing, to preserve their closeness, the pride of being unique in their service to a God who demanded that they suffer for Him.  
This is the basis of the cult of victimhood. Jesus,a s the bastard child of Roman Hebrew mixture, bridged this elitism of victimhood, so as to make victimhood, and salvation, viral. This is Christianity and later Islam, as an adaptation of Zoroastrianism into the eastern tribal variants.  

They were not a genetics becoming a memetic, but were a meme that then became a gene...again the reverse course was taken.
This anti-racism, anti-sexism, Marxism, liberalism is this virus assimilating the Indo-European meme into its identity as world victim, only it does not offer salvation to other tribes, and this is why Jews were originally hated, and what Christianity corrected...but so as to level the antagonist meme down by seducing its weakest, most vulnerable elements...women, children the beta-males the effete and so on.

The Jewish nihilistic variant is pure noesis, meme, idea(l)...inorganic, attempting to become organic, and this is where it becomes self-contradictory, resulting in the internal splintering of social/political/spiritual zionism.
Heisman called it the "Jewish Paradox".

Where Indo-European, Pagan, Aryan, memes are genes then evolving a memetic idea(l), a culture, as are Japanese and Chinese, the Jews take the reverse course.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:53 am

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:32 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:33 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:37 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:44 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:18 am


The emasculated spirit comes into contact with the healthy mind, and a duality, perhaps a triad, is born: mid, body and the conduit connecting them, the spirit.
Father/Son/Holy Ghost
Unable, and unwilling, to accept self (to Know Thyself), wanting salvation from self, a release from self and all that makes it possible, and unable, unwilling to compensate enough to become healthy, to embrace self and all that makes it possible, results in the Messianic, Priestly, kind.
To compensate for this inherited weakness, and unable to accept it, the Christian mind finds hope in a coming afterlife, denies appearances, the phenomenal world, as a stage towards the more real world, where all is one and his own distinctive inferiorities, disappear in the mix, and indulges in a compartmentalized existence.
Sometimes he is rational other times he is mystical; sometimes he is bloodthirsty, other times he is vegan; sometimes he is violent, other times he is loving.
Sometimes these rules apply and at other times other rules, completely contrary to the first noes, apply.
Monday to Friday the Christian behaves like a manimal, and on Saturday he rests, in preparation for Sunday when he goes to Church, denounces his animal side, his sins, cleansing himself for the dirty business of the coming week.

Unlike the Jew, who has completely rejected the world in preparation for the coming Messiah, the Christian has already had his saviour come and go.
He can now partake in the Saviours salvation.
The Pagan is not rejected, but loved, as his dark, evil, past, which he leaves behind every Sunday and returns to on Monday.
Not only schizophrenic but insane; in perpetual conflict with his own pretences.
Christianity is the first step towards Hellenism made by a spirit born of Semitic self-hatred.
He is identified by his victimhood, and choseness, an inheritance from his Jewishness, and by a cosmopolitan declaration of oneness, an immediate treasure of unity, which he inherits from his relationship, partial as it is given his spirit, with the Hellenic life-affirming honesty.
A liar confronted by a level of honesty he cannot match internally.
The conflict results in the private/public identity: personæ, and character.
Personæ repressed to be represented by a public character – as a show of character.
Inside a miser, a self-hating life denouncing nihilist, and outwardly a feigned generosity and openness, spreading mirth and gifts of deliverance.


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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:32 am

What a ridiculous spectacle he makes of himself, this bringer of redemption for the universal man.
Everywhere he goes he gathers a throng of curious bystanders, and the desperately ill looking for a cure in his eyes, listening for a magical blessing to spill out of his mouth.

He embraces them all, turning away none, reinforcing their faith with grand gestures and colossal declarations.
Each one of them reaffirms his pretence, and with the addition of more, and more, the act becomes more real, even for him.
Under the cries of “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!“…he enters Jerusalem, walking on palm branches, as if he were entering Rome, a conqueror with an Olympian olive branch wrapped around his head, or a lost son returning home a victor, yet to be appreciated.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:38 am

You can always recognize the Semite wearing Hellenic garb.
His essence feels out of tune with his pretence.
The fashion hangs on him like they were thrown upon a mannequin, and he displays them, with sweeping, dramatic movements, to remind all that he is truly comfortable within them.

The simple is made complex.
The self-evident, and natural, is covered with exaggerations and contradictions.
The bigger the contradiction, the bigger the hyperbole required to make it sound self-evident.
What such a pretender cannot be, as essence, he becomes using words and fashion accessories.
He walks in Athens wearing sandals but with every step he exposes how bear his feet are.

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Mon May 11, 2015 10:14 am

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:06 pm







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PostSubject: Re: JERUSALEM contra Athens Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:55 pm

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Identity is now the new religion, the new American political division.
This relates to Nihilism and its current, Modern, emergence as the age of the Last Man.

Being black is now cool, sexy, and most of all it is the perfect victim identity, because it excuses everything having to do with the past, as being the consequence not of genetic (nature/past), but of prejudice, memetics (nurturing, education politics, society etc.)

White/Black...the latter also replaceable by any "minority" is the new Right/Left divide - Capitalism/Communism.
Those who, supposedly, inherit control over resources, and those kept from controlling resources.

Identity politic is this nurture/nature conflict with nurture always, nut always, presented as the most "logical" and "self-evident" position.
To choose what you can identify with, and live your life as if you truly are that, is the American Dream, now the American "right".
And it apples to sexual choice, but here one is also "born that way", which means that the past is only involved so far as to justify the hormone, and environmental, conditions that produced the sexual dysfunction, which is no longer to be called that, just as the simpler boy/girl cannot e calls slow, but challenged, and one that can be trained to be, or to appear to be just as average as the rest of the kids - born with a learning disability if the training will not be enough to produce the appearance of averageness.

You see, nothing is permitted to be genetic, except things that have nothing to do with the identity of human, which is about mind - human being the "intelligent animal" the organism with logos.
If you can talk, if you can learn a language, you are human, for all intents and purposes...and this comes with the privilege, if you remain loyal to the shared delusions, and adopt the shared Nihilism, of choosing to identify with whatever you like.
The past/nature is no longer applicable...all is presence - shallow, alterable, appearance.

the illusion is your right, and nobody is allowed to call you on it, or to expose you as a fake...because this is bullying, violent, and you will be accused of having psychological issues.
The "healthy" Modern plays along with whatever the other chooses to identify with.
The other's choices, if they do not inhibit your own, are allowed...nothing objective to measure them by outside the shared, subjective delusions.
all that is truly expected of you, besides abiding by these social rules, is to contribute - to be functional, ambitious in the useful ways, to offer and create resources all can share in. this is also true in the areas of art, and thinking.

Are is values by how many relate to it, and thinking is now about inclusion, of providing ideas to the masses that will be "positive".
The idea of positive/negative being a subjective one - with the conscious mind being the central point from which spin, flow, good/bad, direction, are to be measured by...man as the measure of all things.
Species (human) subjectivity the measure of universe.

An implosion of conciousness towards the ONE, beginning with the anthropomorphic God of the Abrahamic religions, then going through the humanism of the Marxists, and now reduced to abstraction with no reference outside human brains, like numerical values, and geometric shapes, and feelings, etc.
Once identity has been reduced to a numerical value, or an abstraction relating to human biorhythms, the building up can commence in accordance to whatever social and political and cultural norms prevail.
Everything is malleable...the pieces combined this way, and that, the data interpreted this way and then that, the names changed the agenda shaping what is called "self".
But, does nature care?
Is the past that has determined the organism alter when words are shifted about and man declares himself god of all things?

Does god appear if he is renamed One, or Love, or Order?

You decide.

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