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 ATHENS contra Jerusalem

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Satyr
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PostSubject: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:28 am

A thread dedicated to the exploration of what it means to be Aryan.

Hellenic Culture representing the epitome of this Aryan journey, and Rome being its representative Civilization.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:38 am

Aryan is not Nazism. We might say that Nazism was an offshoot of Aryan spirituality, or that it appropriated Aryan symbols and thinking into its nationalistic movement, but not that the two are tautologies.
Mormons, are they Christian?

Hitler biggest mistake was that he made it into a German movement, centered around him (cult of personality), rather than about Europeans, which would have rallied white Russians, Cossacks, and all other European nationals, to his cause.
Instead he made them into his enemies, resulting in his inevitable downfall.

Aryanism is not about violence, racism, sexism, as these have been defined in our Modern Age.
It is racial, and it does accept the division of sexual roles as part of natural hierarchies, and it does use violence, if needed, but it is not only about that.
Aryanism does have elitism as part of its cultural heritage, including castes.
But it is more than that.

Aryan is the spiritual term for a genetic family tree rooted somewhere in the Caucasus.
These tribes descended south, some entering northern India, others going west towards northern Europe, from where they descended south to populate all of the continent.

The genetic equivalent to the spiritual Aryan concept would be Indo-European.

When they entered these new territories they found there local tribes, which they quickly dominated, and then assimilated.  

The spiritual foundation of Aryanism is paganism.
It begins with a worshiping of your ancestors, the dead, as spirits.
Later it develops into a worship of nature, where natural forces were anthropomorphized into deities.  
As these tribes became more sophisticated their worship became more metaphysical, each god representing ideas and ideals later to become philosophies or psychological inclinations and so on.

This attitude towards life, the world, the past, is the shared spiritual thread that runs across Aryans from the British Isles to the jungles of the subcontinent.

Gene morphing into a meme: a set of principles, traditions, rituals, morals, ideals, shaping a world-view, a psychological disposition towards existence.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:21 am

"Arya" denotes noblilty, which requires genetic and cultural predisposition. Aryan is a root race, exclusive to Caucasians. Many cultures used "Arya" as an ethnonym, while others evolved in other directions, such as Western Europeans, including the Greeks, Romans, Germanics.
Frequently, Ukranians, which used the Arya ethnonym in the past, have ressentiment for Western Europeans and I gather it is because of their legacy of servitude and subversion, to and by the latter, and their overall slave-like mentality.

Wagner has alluded to the Aryan impulse having an influence on Frankish Tribes.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:42 am

Self hatred is a part of all ethnic groups.
Usually internal competitions resulting in a particular tribe's defeat results in a rejection of the entire past, as a way to distance self from the shame associated with this defeat.

Anglo Saxon shame has coupled with Jewish shame, to produce the current Americanized obsessive rejection of heritage, and nature.
See Heisman on this.

An added factor is mixing. an individual who is a product of mixing will find it difficult to know himself and to them choose what past he is to identify with.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:44 am

A. Hitler and his representatives, such as Leon Degrelle, already had set in motion a Pan-Aryan, Pan-European, unification led by the German Reich.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:54 am

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:01 am

A. Hitler used Christianity to reach and control his masses, commoners, at which his Mein Kampf was aimed at influencing.
As you've eruditely pointed out, National Socialism, as Hitler positioned it, was an expression, system, upon Nature processes.
His orientation was toward Power, oppurtunity, through Nature conformation.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:35 pm

The pagan feels humbled before the world.
He faces it as one would face both an enemy and a benefactor, and his spirituality will reflects this ambivalence.
The pagan must adjust his understanding to a world that cares not for it, or how precise it is.
The world is his testing ground.

The Nihilist, the Modern, on the other hand, is characterized by an untested arrogance.
He feels privileged because he has nothnig to contradict his assertions that he deserves eternal life, or equal pay, or justice, or love or to be reproduced.
He is born with this sense of deserving-ness, and has to be raised to believe in it.
By being born he establishes his "right to exist", though being born was due to human contrivances he now dismisses and rejects as Paternalistic and backwards.

He has no world indifferent towards him and his lies, and his self-flattering delusions; no reality to slap him back to his senses and to humble him.
He was born chosen.
He can assert anything, if he pays his dues to the institution that offers him this service.
If the institution is God then all he must do is sacrifice reason, and prostrate before an invisible entity, preserving his earthly egotism.
He can now evaluate himself in any way he prefers, and the highest evaluation is part of the "you can be anything"  and the "you deserve the best",  or the "you have a right" lie, later to settle for the pragmatic as part of his awakening to a reality that still does not yield to human contrivances.
Lowered expectations is an inescapable part of a Modern's alienating disappointment; part of his "growing-up" to his mid-life crisis, or to how empty (s)he feels.
He later calls it his sacrifice, his pain and suffering, or his sinfulness.
This disappointment and trying to avoid it, is what keeps him working, and laboring, to acquire the monetary means to buy himself out of, because buying a gold-digging slut who is with you only because of your wealth is preferable to being excluded from the gene-pool.
In the end you can claim that you bought yourself out of your inherited limitations.

Within the man-made social pretenses such a man can purchase the "right" to his own delusions, and call anyone who contradicts them ill, or evil, or envious, or negative.
To this man telling him the truth is "nihilism".
The role reversal of the emasculated now acquiring the feminine advantage is indicative of feminization.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:50 pm

It is a small, rootless, international financial clique that is turning the people against each other. The Japanese are one of the few large-scale nations that still have honor, and thus are Aryan. In them lies the will to self-sacrifice not seen anymore in the west. To live for the sake of others is Aryan, it is a nobility not seen in your average swine.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:38 pm

Satyr wrote:
The pagan feels humbled before the world.
He faces it as one would face both an enemy and a benefactor, and his spirituality will reflects this ambivalence.
The pagan must adjust his understanding to a world that cares not for it, or how precise it is.
The world is his testing ground.

The Nihilist, the Modern, on the other hand, is characterized by an untested arrogance.
He feels privileged because he has nothnig to contradict his assertions that he deserves eternal life, or equal pay, or justice, or love or to be reproduced.
He is born with this sense of deserving-ness, and has to be raised to believe in it.
By being born he establishes his "right to exist", though being born was due to human contrivances he now dismisses and rejects as Paternalistic and backwards.

He has no world indifferent towards him and his lies, and his self-flattering delusions; no reality to slap him back to his senses and to humble him.
He was born chosen.
He can assert anything, if he pays his dues to the institution that offers him this service.
If the institution is God then all he must do is sacrifice reason, and prostrate before an invisible entity, preserving his earthly egotism.
He can now evaluate himself in any way he prefers, and the highest evaluation is part of the "you can be anything"  and the "you deserve the best",  or the "you have a right" lie, later to settle for the pragmatic as part of his awakening to a reality that still does not yield to human contrivances.
Lowered expectations is an inescapable part of a Modern's alienating disappointment; part of his "growing-up" to his mid-life crisis, or to how empty (s)he feels.
He later calls it his sacrifice, his pain and suffering, or his sinfulness.
This disappointment and trying to avoid it, is what keeps him working, and laboring, to acquire the monetary means to buy himself out of, because buying a gold-digging slut who is with you only because of your wealth is preferable to being excluded from the gene-pool.
In the end you can claim that you bought yourself out of your inherited limitations.

Within the man-made social pretenses such a man can purchase the "right" to his own delusions, and call anyone who contradicts them ill, or evil, or envious, or negative.
To this man telling him the truth is "nihilism".
The role reversal of the emasculated now acquiring the feminine advantage is indicative of feminization.

This whole right, demand, to exist thing is my main preoccupation at dispelling right now.
Fine, if there is some inexplicable, mystical right to a Nation or existence, without seeing that it is only a social strategy, artifice, for surviving, then why to do they turn the other way when it is posited that in this way others have the right to make them nonexistent.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:42 pm

Few do "turn the other way" and the fanatics do so because for them this world is a false one, and the more real one awaits them as a reward for their sacrifice.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:51 pm

Satyr wrote:
Hitler's biggest mistake was that he made it into a German movement, centered around him (cult of personality), rather than about Europeans, which would have rallied white Russians, Cossacks, and all other European nationals, to his cause.
Instead he made them into his enemies, resulting in his inevitable downfall.


World capitals shift - once it was Greco-Rome, now the US.

It is a sign of health to stamp the world in your spirit. To equate Germany as the new Europe and Berlin as the world-capital is not a personal fanaticism, but carrying on the European legacy that Greece was, that Rome was... he was a traditionalist carrying on the olympic flame.

Plus there was no 'sense' of 'Europe', until he put forward his aim to germanize as a pan-European phenomenon; the cultural phenomenon of a pan-Europeanism begins because of him:

Hitler wrote:
"Europe is not a geographic entity, it's a racial entity." [TT, 17]

Also no time for propaganda to rally the others fighting their own wars.
Even if your theory and vision were sound, the advisors you are surrounded by, military mistakes and practical performance is a large factor. I do not doubt, at the ideological level, they were on an inefficient path.

Evola wrote:
"Remembering all that we have said about possible later corrections and normalisations of the system, we can say that no price would have been too high, supposing the war had proven victorious by some miracle (given the enormous disproportion of the material forces that decided it) and had the following results: breaking the backbone of Soviet Russia and very likely provoking the crisis of Communism itself (instead of the Communist takeover of all the European countries on the other side of the ‘Iron Curtain’ and the current Cold War between ‘East’ and ‘West’ that, for good or ill, is still going on); humiliating the United States and expelling it from European politics (instead of a Western Europe that, in its own defence, is more or less at the mercy of the United States and its presidents); crippling British power but certainly, despite the probability that some of its colonies would have fallen into other hands, to a much lesser degree than happened to ‘victorious’ England, which has seen its empire broken up (exactly the same thing that happened to ‘victorious’ France); preventing, when it was still possible, the Communist takeover of China as a result of the victory of Japan, instead of the rise of a new, powerful and very dangerous home in Asia for worldwide subversion; impeding the insurrection of coloured peoples and the end of European hegemony, because never — and again never — in the ‘New Order’, under the banner of the ideas defended by the peoples of the Axis, would there have been a place for the self-destructive psychosis of anti-colonialism, nor could that revolt have counted on help from the Soviet Union. All people with sentiments that are not necessarily ‘Fascist’, but who are of the Right, when they allow their imagination to dwell on such possibilities and overcome their current prejudices, have no choice but to draw up a balance sheet and adequately measure the distance that separates them from what instead presents itself to our eyes as the current world situation." [Fascism viewed from the Right: Notes on the Third Reich]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:56 pm

Luckily he had no children because if he did and had won the war it would have been a messy passing of the Fuhrer's authority. 

When you invade Russia and cannot manage to even get the White Russians on your side, you've done something wrong. 
Assuming that the generals were weak and not him, is your hypothesis.
Opening a second front, on its own, is a grave strategic error.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:13 pm

Satyr wrote:

The spiritual foundation of Aryanism is paganism.
It begins with a worshiping of your ancestors, the dead, as spirits.
Later it develops into a worship of nature, where natural forces were anthropomorphized into deities.  
As these tribes became more sophisticated their worship became more metaphysical, each god representing ideas and ideals later to become philosophies or psychological inclinations and so on.

That is the characteristic of any non-I.E. pagan culture as well. Aryanism has its peculiar genius in organization based on its instinctive need to shape the world and itself around the question of what is the best, what is the most superior...  the urge for highest perfection.
Aryanism was what it demanded of itself.
To Rank was an innate tendency since the oldest Rig Veda - what allowed its peoples to handle complexes and fluid metaphors, to cover vast distances in short kennings, poetic visions that could hold the world over vast breadths... to not just observe and segregate, but create hierarchies, to want to Rule.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:22 pm

Satyr wrote:

When you invade Russia and cannot manage to even get the White Russians on your side, you've done something wrong. 

If ethno-fanaticism is what you are suggesting was the error, that's your opinion.

Quote :
Assuming that the generals were weak and not him, is your hypothesis.

The adding of "not him" is your own importation.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:31 pm

Satyr wrote:
Luckily he had no children because if he did and had won the war it would have been a messy passing of the Fuhrer's authority."

He had severe principles against nepotism.

Hitler wrote:
"What's tragic in Napoleon's case is that when he adopted the imperial title, formed a court and instituted a ceremonial, he didn't realise that, by making common cause with degenerates, he was merely putting himself on their level. Personally, I should regard it as an example of pure lunacy if anyone came and offered me, for example, a dukedom. It would be like asking me to recognise bonds of kinship with all the dwarfs who bear the title.

By looking after his relatives' interests as he did, Napoleon furthermore displayed incredible weakness on the purely human level. When a man occupies such a position, he should eliminate all his family feeling. Napoleon, on the contrary, placed his brothers and sisters in posts of command, and retained them in these posts even after they'd given proofs of their incapability. All that was necessary was to throw out all these patently incompetent relatives. Instead of that, he wore himself out with sending his brothers and sisters, regularly every month, letters containing reprimands and warnings, urging them to do this and not to do that, thinking he could remedy their incompetence by promising them money, or by threatening not to give them any more. Such illogical behaviour can be explained only by the feeling Corsicans have for their families, a feeling in which they resemble the Scots.

By thus giving expression to his family feeling, Napoleon introduced a disruptive principle into his life. Nepotism, in fact, is the most formidable protection imaginable : the protection of the ego. But wherever it has appeared in the life of a State—the monarchies are the best proof—it has resulted in weakening and decay. Reason : it puts an end to the principle of effort." [TT, 177]


Also,

Hitler wrote:
"In the National Socialist form of State, the title "Fuehrer" is the most suitable. It implies, amongst other things, the idea that the Head of the State has been chosen by the German people. Although it sometimes produces superfluities and overlappings— when one reads beneath a photograph, for example: "At the Fuehrer's side, the Oberfuehrer So-and-So", that has no importance, at least while I'm still alive. But when I'm no longer there, it will be necessary to alter that and to give the notion of "Fuehrer" a uniform meaning." [TT, 177]

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"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:36 pm

Satyr wrote:
Luckily he had no children because if he did and had won the war it would have been a messy passing of the Fuhrer's authority. 

When you invade Russia and cannot manage to even get the White Russians on your side, you've done something wrong. 
Assuming that the generals were weak and not him, is your hypothesis.
Opening a second front, on its own, is a grave strategic error.

He had volunteers from over 30 different Nations, including Russia, fighting for his Reich.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:41 pm

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Luckily he had no children because if he did and had won the war it would have been a messy passing of the Fuhrer's authority. 

When you invade Russia and cannot manage to even get the White Russians on your side, you've done something wrong. 
Assuming that the generals were weak and not him, is your hypothesis.
Opening a second front, on its own, is a grave strategic error.

He had volunteers from over 30 different Nations, including Russia, fighting for his Reich.

Too little too late.
He made this into a German war, and so Germans were the only Aryans allowed....them and the Northern Europeans.



Supra-Aryanist wrote:
He had severe principles against nepotism.

I'm sure...and how would his severe principles affect politics AFTER he was dead, given the personality cult he had cultivated in the German people?

Alexander the Great died and left no heirs...what happened?

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:46 pm

Satyr wrote:
Supra-Aryanist wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Luckily he had no children because if he did and had won the war it would have been a messy passing of the Fuhrer's authority. 

When you invade Russia and cannot manage to even get the White Russians on your side, you've done something wrong. 
Assuming that the generals were weak and not him, is your hypothesis.
Opening a second front, on its own, is a grave strategic error.

He had volunteers from over 30 different Nations, including Russia, fighting for his Reich.

Too little too late.
He made this into a German war, and so non-Germans were the only Aryans allowed....them and the Northern Europeans.


He was the one who defined it as a European war and gave the jewish/xt./bolshevik problem a "global, universal" character and not just a domestic german issue.

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Quote :

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
He had severe principles against nepotism.

I'm sure...and how would his severe principles affect politics AFTER he was dead, given the personality cult he had cultivated in the German people?

You have attributed that remark to Supra-Aryanist,, its my remark.
I edited my quote above before your reply, see the second excerpt.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:56 pm

I add:  


Hitler wrote:
"Setting the best man at the head of the State—that's the most difficult problem in the world to solve. In a republic in which the whole people is called upon to elect the chief of the State, it's possible, with money and publicity, to bring the meagrest of puppets to power.

In a republic in which the reins of power are in the hands of a clique made up of a few families, the State takes on the aspect of a trust, in which the shareholders have an interest in electing a weakling as President, so that they may play an important part themselves.

A hereditary monarchy is a biological blunder, for a man of action regularly chooses a wife with essentially feminine qualities, and the son inherits his mother's mildness and passive disposition.
In a republic that sets at its head a chief elected for life, there's the risk that he will pursue a policy of personal selfinterest.
In a republic where the Chief of State changes every five or ten years, the stability of the government is never assured, and the execution of long-term plans, exceeding the duration of a lifetime, is thereby compromised.

If one sets at the head of the State an old man who has withdrawn from all worldly considerations, he is only a puppet, and inevitably it's other men who rule in his name.

Thinking over all that, I've arrived at the following conclusions:

1. The chances of not setting a complete idiot at the head of the State are better under the system of free elections than in the opposite case. The giants who were the elected German Emperors are the best proof of this. There was not one of them of whom it can truly be said that he was an imbecile. In the hereditary monarchies, on the other hand, there were at least eight kings out of ten who, if they'd been ordinary citizens, would not have been capable of successfully running a grocery.

2. In choosing a Chief of State, one must call upon a personality who, as far as human beings can judge, guarantees a certain stability in the exercise of power for a longish while. This is a necessary condition, not only so that public affairs can be successfully administered, but in order to make possible the realisation of great projects.

3. Care must be taken that the Chief of State will not succumb to the influence of the plutocracy, and cannot be forced to certain decisions by any pressure of that sort. That's why it's important that he should be supported by a political organisation whose strength has its roots in the people, and which can have the upper hand over private interests.

Although a State founded on such principles can lay no claim to eternity, it might last for eight to nine centuries. The thousand-year-old organisation of the Church is a proof of this—and yet this entire organisation is founded on nonsense. What I have said should a fortiori be true of an organisation founded on reason." [TT, 177]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:48 am

Yeah...theory is good, but I do not know how much of it he applied.

The blunder at Stalingrad where he emphasized the name of the city may reveal an ego out of control.
Why not circumvent Stalingrad like he did Leningrad, and lay siege?

That he could not rally the anti-communist, pro-European forces in Europe at that time, when Modern Nihilism had not infected as many minds as it has today, is also an interesting factor.
Perhaps his Germano-centric approach had to be abandoned later when he had lost too many men and needed other nationals to fill in, or the infection had been underestimated.
I mean Christianity was a force at the time and Christianity is nothing more than a evolution of Judaism.

The emphasis on race, on blood, was a bit premature.
The focus should have been the ideology -the meme rather than the gene- because the foe, the virus, is a memetic one.
You consolidate the ideological and cultural forces when an ideological cultural virus infects you.

Of course, much of this is based on the post-war propaganda the victors marketed, and the subsequent narrative that developed from it.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:44 am

Satyr wrote:
Yeah...theory is good, but I do not know how much of it he applied.

The blunder at Stalingrad where he emphasized the name of the city may reveal an ego out of control.
Why not circumvent Stalingrad like he did Leningrad, and lay siege?

That he could not rally the anti-communist, pro-European forces in Europe at that time, when Modern Nihilism had not infected as many minds as it has today, is also an interesting factor.
Perhaps his Germano-centric approach had to be abandoned later when he had lost too many men and needed other nationals to fill in, or the infection had been underestimated.
I mean Christianity was a force at the time and Christianity is nothing more than a evolution of Judaism.

The emphasis on race, on blood, was a bit premature.
The focus should have been the ideology -the meme rather than the gene- because the foe, the virus, is a memetic one.
You consolidate the ideological and cultural forces when an ideological cultural virus infects you.

Of course, much of this is based on the post-war propaganda the victors marketed, and the subsequent narrative that developed from it.

The gene as his emphasis was the way to go, as it immediately created a schism, exclusivity, not to mention the superseding effects it still has today.
Once the gene is established as a foundational requisite, the meme follows, with quality over quantity here.
That he had niggers and Asiatics is some of his divisions does not contradict this: manpower is manpower.
I also contend that he was using Mussolini similarly, as we know NS is neither Fascism, nor fascism, as both proponents and opponents obtusely make the unsubstatianted case.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:34 pm

Satyr wrote:
Yeah...theory is good, but I do not know how much of it he applied.

My impression of him is the opposite of a megalomaniacal fanatic; one of his flaws may even be his Impersonal over-scientific nature; he found the reversion to the worship of Wotan redundant and cessation of temple-prayings to Zeus a progress, although he was not an atheist either.

Quote :
The blunder at Stalingrad where he emphasized the name of the city may reveal an ego out of control.
Why not circumvent Stalingrad like he did Leningrad, and lay siege?

Funnily, one reason for the 'blunder' is even because he didn't deploy all troops and resources to single out Stalingrad under-estimating the perserverance of Stalin's army, but wanted to attack multiple spots against the advice of his ministers and thereby the trickling effect proved a tactical error;

Quote :
"German field commanders in Russia and members of the Army High Command were utterly dismayed. It seemed like the Moscow nightmare was about to be repeated. It was a reoccurrence of the long-standing, fundamental disagreement they had with Hitler – pick one target and attack it with overwhelming force – whereas Hitler preferred a piecemeal approach toward multiple targets to satisfy his broader ambitions.

Senior strategists urged the Führer to take Stalingrad first using all available resources, then go for the oil fields."

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Quote :

That he could not rally the anti-communist, pro-European forces in Europe at that time, when Modern Nihilism had not infected as many minds as it has today, is also an interesting factor.

I suppose that's because there were more anti-semitic supporters than pro-European ones as the respective head of states in Europe were christians with whom Hitler wanted nothing more than temporary pacts.

Quote :
Perhaps his Germano-centric approach had to be abandoned later when he had lost too many men and needed other nationals to fill in, or the infection had been underestimated.

I dont think by his 'Germany' he had ever meant the local state from the beginning.
His Germany was the reach of the Vikings.

Quote :
The emphasis on race, on blood, was a bit premature.
The focus should have been the ideology -the meme rather than the gene- because the foe, the virus, is a memetic one.
You consolidate the ideological and cultural forces when an ideological cultural virus infects you.

Nordicism was the prevailing racial science at the time along with other myths. Although to his credit, in his TT, he even cautions all to stop romanticizing fabulous origins and false racial pride.
When there are no frontiers, you also create one from the midst. You try to buy isolation, space. Build a European 'wall' that Alexander had opened.

Hitler wrote:
"We understand now why the Chinese shut themselves up behind a wall to protect themselves against the eternal attacks of theMongols. One could sometimes wish that a huge wall might protect the new territories of the East against the masses of Central Asia; but that's contrary to the teachings of history. The fact is that a too great feeling of security provokes, in the long run, a relaxation of forces. I think the best wall will always be a wall of human breasts !" [TT, 17]

Quote :
Of course, much of this is based on the post-war propaganda the victors marketed, and the subsequent narrative that developed from it.

Yes.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:05 pm

Nordicism was based off of capitalism of which protestants founded and were the most fine tuned for. This ought to say a lot. 

WW1 was a continuation of the Napoleonic war of ideals and the obvious side won because no army can stop an idea of whos time has come. It worked wonders in Turkey (Axis-Power the first time around), but too rapidly changed others (see Weimar Republic Renaissance). Thus predictable and doomed fascist reactions of varying kinds, which ended up speeding up a process just as the first war did. 

Codreanu was the only Aryan and the one who inspired Evola. The Roman legacy continued in the genius Slavophiles, Dostoyevsky one of the most profound intellects of all times.

Here's one who pessimistically predicted the Russian Reds, the two doomed German persuits, the Chinese rise and Kaczynski.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:25 pm

There Will Be Blood wrote:
Nordicism was based off of capitalism of which protestants founded and were the most fine tuned for. This ought to say a lot. 

WW1 was a continuation of the Napoleonic war of ideals and the obvious side won because no army can stop an idea of whos time has come. It worked wonders in Turkey (Axis-Power the first time around), but too rapidly changed others (see Weimar Republic Renaissance). Thus predictable and doomed fascist reactions of varying kinds, which ended up speeding up a process just as the first war did. 

Codreanu was the only Aryan and the one who inspired. The Roman legacy continued in the genius Slavophiles, Dostoyevsky one of the most profound intellects of all times.

Here's one who pessimistically predicted the Russian Reds, the two doomed German persuits, the Chinese rise and Kaczynski.


Despite The Captain's vehement adherence to Christianity?

Speaking of the Legionnaires, Iron Guard, some martial industrial:





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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:35 pm

Does not everything this man said explain why women are now entering schools in droves and established themselves as 'academics"and "scientists" and all sorts of specialists?

I've said this over and over.
When all it takes is a mediocre mind to learn and to copy the recipe, or refer to precedent, or follow the established method then the upper and lower ends of the intellectual spectrum are irrelevant, and all that matters I that median, that uniforming average.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:42 pm

An aside on ironies on 'noble' and 'slave'...

Quote :
"Originally, the Latin word for knight, miles, legally meant a lower-level noble who had attached himself to the household of a feudal lord as a kind of employee or even a serf, a species of military henchman, sometimes also dressed and armed by the lord. Like the Mamluks of Egypt and the samurai of Japan, knights were originally low-ranked retainers to a noble class (mamluk means “slave”; samurai “military servant”) whose rise to a ruling status of their own is marked by the mythification of their social position.

As the word for knight passed into the European languages, it took on different nuances. In French it is chevalier, like the Spanish caballero, coming almost directly from the common Latin synonym for miles—caballerius. Both invoke the horse and are words that, like the various Scandinavian versions of the Germanic ritter, can be traced back to the members of the Roman social class called the equites, who in the early republic were those not wellborn enough to be nobles and members of the Senate but who nevertheless had enough money to have their own horses, armor, and weapons. In English, however, the word “knight” contains a hint of its native and socially lower origins. Coming from the Old English cniht and connected to the German knecht, it originally meant a young boy who was an attendant or servant. Unlike the French and Spanish terms, which emphasize the horse as part of the equation, the English and German terms convey an atmosphere of youth on the verge of initiation into manhood. It is a transition also reflected in the term enfances for a knightly neophyte’s first deeds of arms, and summed up as well in the archaic title childe, revived for Romantic and Victorian medievalism in Byron’s poem Childe Harold’s Pilgrimage and Browning’s “Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came.”

By the late thirteenth century, it had become a title rather than a description, and “a nobleman who had not been knighted had to yield to knights who were not noble”. From a fighting class who served the nobility, knights had risen to a position that even nobles envied and coveted.

In the end, an elaborate warrior genealogy crucially validated military prowess in the present. By the sixteenth century in punctilious Germany—to which knighthood had come somewhat later than to France and England—an armored combatant had to trace his genealogy back four generations before he was allowed to participate in tournaments." [Leo Braudy, From Chivalry to Terrorism]



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" Modern Finnish orja means ‘slave’, while its cognate in Saami means ‘south’: these northernmost Finnic people took their southern neighbours as war-captives and used their ethnic name, Arya- , for their slaves. English slave similarly comes from the ethnic name of Slavs." [Parpola, The Nasatyas, the Chariot, and Proto-Aryan Religion]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:41 pm

Satyr wrote:
Does not everything this man said explain why women are now entering schools in droves and established themselves as 'academics"and "scientists" and all sorts of specialists?

I've said this over and over.
When all it takes is a mediocre mind to learn and to copy the recipe, or refer to precedent, or follow the established method then the upper and lower ends of the intellectual spectrum are irrelevant, and all that matters I that median, that uniforming average.  

Who; Hitler?
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:51 am

Uncovering the magical power of words....

Hawkes, David wrote:
Faust’s desire to get beyond “empty words” is complicit with the demonic suggestion that words are all there is. As Flax remarks, “The crucial irony here is that Faust’s turn to magical or sacred signs, far from liberating him from the constraints of ‘empty’ language, only thrusts him deeper and deeper into the discontents of the semiotic condition.

Precisely in the attempt to transcend language by means of the revelatory sign, Faust reinforces the linguistic limits he had hoped to escape” (185).
Perhaps this last statement calls for some qualification.
It is certainly true that Faust remains trapped within the prison-house of semiosis, but his ability to manipulate performative representation indubitably does allow him to transcend the limits of ordinary language.
He achieves this because his words have power, virtu, Kraft.
But like the patristic and scholastic theoreticians of witchcraft, Goethe emphasizes that the source of this power is not the signs themselves—as witches and magicians believed or claimed to believe—but the devil.

Faust’s supposition that he can command the dark forces is vain: even at their first meeting, when Mephistopheles appears to be trapped within Faust’s pentagram, the devil easily escapes by lulling the sorcerer to sleep with a “magic show” (1441).
Magic is not a means for Faust to command Mephistopheles, but vice versa, as the devil makes clear in several asides:

Scorn learning, if you must, and reason,
the highest faculty mankind possesses,
let your fondness for self-deception
involve you deeper still in magic and illusion,
and its dead certain you’ll be mine! (1851–1856)

Even the clownish “magician’s trick” (2268) in Auerbach’s wine-cellar is recognized by the drunken victims as “black magic,” and this incident is followed by an exposition of the traditional view of sorcery in the Witches’ Kitchen.
This scene is presided over by a group of apes, conventional symbols of the Satanic desire to create a magical “second nature,” thus “aping” God.
Faust asks why the devil needs to work through the medium of witches, and Mephistopheles gives an answer straight out of the Malleus Malificarum:
“Of course the devil taught her how to do it, / but he can’t do the work himself” (2376–2377).
Satan must operate through human conduits, because the real object of his labor is the human mind.

Magic is a memetic device.

Hawkes, David wrote:
The sorcerers’ argument, and the witches’ defense, had always been that their magic was efficacious in itself, and required no Satanic agency to achieve its effects. Goethe indicates that this view of magic has triumphed in the Enlightenment.
Magic has not ceased to be practiced—on the contrary, it is more widely practiced than ever before—but because people no longer trace its efficacy to the devil, it is no longer recognized as magic.

The quote about Satan's greatest trick being to convince the world that he does not exist, is appropriate here.
The secularization of the Satanic will be explored later.
The concept of Satan God remaining within the realm of the metaphorical where all of this is taking place.

Indeed, magic has not ceased to be practiced.
It, still, magically transforms women into men and men into women, blacks into whites, it erases the past, it makes beauty a democratically elected option, it can parrot knowledge as intelligence, makes nature inapplicable and then turns quality into a quantity that can be exchanged, sold, purchased, and worn like a magical talisman.

We truly live in magical times.


Hawkes, David wrote:

Goethe thus makes it clear that his use of traditional demonology should be understood as an allegorical depiction of objective realities.

Idolatry transformed in Modern secular terms into a worship of the magical power of money.

Hawkes, David wrote:

Marc Shell has pointed out that part two of Goethe’s drama recapitulates the action of part one on the scale of the state rather than that of the soul.

This transition in scope also involves a step forward in history, for the role played by magic in the first part is occupied by money in the second.
What magic is to Faust the individual, money is to Faustian society.
Unlike modern economists, Goethe was not naive enough to imagine that the “economy” constitutes a distinct arena of human experience; he recognized that a change in the mode of financial representation was part of a change in the role of signification in general.
Like Socrates, he often connects the quantitative, financial mode of value with the empty words of sophistical rhetoric, observing that “whether mathematics counts pennies or guineas, whether rhetoric defends truth or falsehood, is of no concern whatever to either.”

The transition from magical thinking to financial thinking.
The magic being the detachment of words from the referential point in the world - detachment of noumenon from phenomenon.
The word has the power to transform reality on its own.


Hawkes, David wrote:

This aspect of Goethe’s play has been explored in depth by Hans-Christophe Binswanger, who points out that interest-bearing capital is a continuation of alchemy by other means:

. . . the attempts to produce artificial gold were abandoned not because
they were futile, but because alchemy in another form has proved so
successful that the arduous production of gold in the laboratory is
no longer necessary. It is not vital to alchemy’s aim, in the sense of
increasing wealth, that lead be actually transmuted into gold.
It will suffice if a substance of no value is transformed into one of value: paper,
for example, into money.
We can interpret the economic process as
alchemy if it is possible to arrive at money without having earned it
through corresponding effort
. . . in other words, if a genuine value
creation is possible which is not bound by any limits and is therefore, in
this sense, sorcery or magic.

Money begins to detach from the real, turning into a noetic artifice, a pure abstraction, that refers to no phenomenon.
This is its magical power.  
The power of symbols detaching from the world.
Along with it the meaning of value is transformed.

The absence of effort corresponding to the absence of a time/space signature.
Effort in time is transformed into a more shallow, superficial, immediate symbol (appearance)...earned so as to magically disregard the absence of centuries of effort in time.
 


Hawkes, David wrote:
The liberation of financial value from gold bullion constitutes the ultimate triumph of alchemy.
Alchemy did not disappear because it failed but because, certain elements within it having succeeded, it was no longer deemed necessary.
But the elements within alchemy that proved successful—the practical attempt to create financial value, and the theoretical claim that art could reproduce natural essences—were never orthodox,
and their victory over the orthodox practitioners of the discipline constitute the death of traditional alchemy.
As Goethe’s attribution of paper money to Mephistopheles suggests, the artificial production of financial value was connected with black magic throughout all alchemical debate, and not even alchemy’s staunchest advocates would have defended attempts to use it as a means to realize
financial value.

The "liberation" being this detachment I speak of. and you can witness it, first-hand, on ILP and how usurers, alchemists, two-bit magi, practicing a form of Modernistic hocus-pokus, attempt to produce value out of nothing...to make value an ontology detached from anything phenomenal.
Value as its own value.  

The liberation from the gold standard is seminal in this process of alienation.
Gold being the product of centuries of (inter)actions, lending it its value, manifesting in its worth, can be substituted by a symbol, a paper-note, that can be printed in a few minutes.
The source for the recent economic crash. Wealth corresponding to nothing but an idea(l).
An idea(l) so detached from reality that is can be used to manufacture an artificial value, a ontology of value separate from ontology - an epistemological magical trick.
Symbol (word) transformed into quantities, numbers, codes, letters, replacing qualities rooted in the past/nature, having a temporal value rather than a symbolic one.
 

Hawkes, David wrote:
This is the vital difference between the alchemy of the money markets and the Aristotelian art of precapitalist societies.
Traditional alchemy is concerned with quality.
It does not try to create gold in order to realize its financial value, but because gold is the perfect form or telos of metal.
The elusive “elixir” or “philosophers’ stone” was the catalyst that would realize the entelechy of the material world. In contrast, financial alchemy, or usury, conceives of value in terms of
quantity
; it disregards the essences of things and translates them into financial value.

The connection to usury and those who practice this demonic art of turning symbols into false wealth is associated with a particular type of people.
The transmutation of wood-pulp into gold, exchangeable and able to purchase what nature has denied the man of need(s).
Centuries of pressures, creating gold, replaced with a printer mill, and a stamp, a symbol representing resources which are not present.


Hawkes, David wrote:
Of course, disreputable alchemists had always perverted the opus in attempts to enrich themselves; this debased form of alchemy was called “multiplication,” and was considered the veritable antithesis of the quest for entelechy.
Its practioners disregarded the philosophical implications of gold’s elemental nature, and pursued only its financial, nominal value.
They sought a magical way to produce, not gold, but the value of gold: what gold represented. This is exactly what Goethe’s Faust achieves in the paper money scene.

Observe the modern alchemists, usurers, on ILP, trying to create value out of nothing.
A magic trick, or something more insidious?


Hawkes, David wrote:
Robert Boyle associates “alchemists” with “usurers:” “the prerogatives and usefulness of Gold, in comparison of other metals, is nothing near so great as alchemists and usurers imagine.”
The substantial form of gold was losing its fetishized aura with the decline of bullionist economics, but the magical, demonic art that produced financial value out of thin air was to prove just as long-lived as empirical science.
Empiricism shares with magic the belief that an alteration in appearances can constitute a transmutation of essence, that accidental qualities rather than substantial forms define identity.

A connection between Modernistic attitudes toward appearance and money.
They can 'correct' centuries of natural selection with cosmetic devices, altering the apparent as if they have alters the essence of what appears.  
An alchemists magic trick.
Gold into paper....resources as numbers.
Value referring to nothing outside the human skull.

A detached, alienating, comforting to those who despise self and the world that made it possible, world of trickery...usury.

The manipulation of human weakness, human vanity, human need.
Notice, again, on ILP, our specimen jar, how some do not care if they acquire what they need with money, a form of coercive pressure upon the other, forcing the other pretend, but they only care about the pretense....the illusion this pretense offers them.
They prefer the lie to the reality of their condition.  


Hawkes, David wrote:
Alchemists assumed that, if they could manufacture a material whose accidental qualities exactly matched those of gold, that material would be gold, in essence as well as in appearance. This was the heresy of the witches, as well as of the alchemists.

Witchcraft, and those that practice magic, become the new shamans.
Who can resist the offering of turning the questionably valuable into the accredited valuable, using conjuring words, symbols, rituals?


Hawkes, David wrote:
   
In Goethe’s Faust, the Emperor’s lament for his realm’s financial woe bespeaks a crisis in the nature of value that parallels Faust’s despair of attaining philosophical truth in part one. Both crises are solved by recourse to magic.
The state has not come to terms with the power of exchange-value, which is displacing natural use-value as the source of wealth.

Value can now have an ontology of its own, represented with words, and numbers.

Hawkes, David wrote:
 
As throughout the play, Goethe is careful to link financial reproduction to semiotic profusion in general.
Poetry is the mode of linguistic expression in which the multiple, connotative meanings of words overrides their prosaic, denotative significance; it involves a diffusion of semiosis.

The Charioteer declares that “I, too, am rich beyond all measures / and count myself the peer of Plutus” (5576–5577), and Plutus tells his young friend: “you are the essence of
my spirit. / You always act the way I’d wish to act, / your treasury contains
more gold than mine” (5623–5625).

In an allusion to the fairy gold of the puppet plays, the Charioteer hands out disappearing
jewellery—“the rogue / bestows as gold what merely glitters” (5604– 5605)—and Plutus magically makes gold coins come alive and leap out of chests, so that “ducats dance” (5719).

The power of declarative words.
I am....!!!!whatever I declare myself as being.
I am...!!! what I can purchase as my identity.
I am....!! what I can imitate, put on and take off, adopt and then recycle....


Hawkes, David wrote:
 
Now that women . . .
. . . have far more wants than they have money,
their husbands have a lot to suffer
and see debts everywhere they look . . .
This makes me fonder still of gold,

So now I am Sir Greed, and masculine. (5654–5659, 5664–5665)

The Masque’s allegorical prophecy of financial profusion ends in fiery apocalypse, and Plutus/Faust’s closing words—“magic must come to our aid” (5985–5986)—prepare us for the paper money scene which follows.
The Steward rushes in to the Emperor and announces that “the claws of usury have been appeased” (6042).
Inspired by Faust, the state has issued bills of paper money and, to everyone’s astonishment, the people are happy to accept them as if they were the gold they represent. The Treasurer’s report alludes to the idolatrous nature of their faith: “The alphabet is really now superfluous / for in this sign all men can find salvation” (6081–6082).

The sign no longer represents the real but transforms it...it is it.
And because signs can be manipulated reality, through the symbol, can be changed.
The Alexandrian Myth.


Hawkes, David wrote:
 
So the banknotes claim to be referential in nature, to refer to an object beyond themselves. However, this promise to produce the actual gold which the notes supposedly represent is never fulfilled.
The notes prove to be empty symbols, with no external referent.

The symbol referring to nothing, being an artifice, a noumenon with no connection to the phenomenon, is worthless...yet it professes to be the standard of valuing everything.
It has an ontology outside ontology, or it has an ontology other than its quality.
Paper money is made of paper, and represents resources, gold.
It's value is not based on its reality, its existence, but in its symbolization which refers to something beyond the existent because it need not be present, or actual.
Its value is now outside the real, the physical...it is metaphorical.
Time bridged with its sign.


Hawkes, David wrote:
 
The figural nature of money, the fact that as Mephistopheles says during the Masque “Gold can be converted into anything” (5781), raises the issue of the connection between the paper money scene and Goethe’s general theory of representation, and this relation has been the subject of much critical debate.
For Franco Moretti the paper money episode underlines the semiotic nature (conventional: allegorical) that the new form of wealth will have. Between the inner form of allegory and Marx’s analysis of the commodity there is a clear structural parallelism.
Like the commodity, allegory humanizes things (making them move and speak), and it reifies human beings.
In both cases, furthermore, an abstract reality (exchange value, allegorical meaning) subordinates and almost hides the concrete reality of use value and literal meaning. . . .26

Having reduced qualities to quantities, and then accepted them as valuable metaphors, all human traits can be reduced to money...purchasing ans selling qualities as if they referred to the actual quality, built in the past/nature.

Hawkes, David wrote:
 
Marc Shell points to the continuity between Goethe’s epistemology, his ethics, and his economics:

the relationship between symbol and thing, which is presented in
Part One primarily as the difference between word and concept, is represented
[in the paper money scene] as the tension between coined or
paper money and commodity . . . the new and ideologically subversive
mode of symbolization is linked with the historical advent of paper
money. . . . The widespread use of coins, which are both symbols and
commodities, may precipitate some conceptual misunderstanding of the
relationship between signs and things, but it does not encourage its
users to believe that symbol and commodity, or word and concept, are
entirely separable
. Paper money, on the other hand, does appear to be a
symbol entirely disassociated from the commodity that it symbolizes.

(675, 678)

All can become commodity.
Beauty, love, virtue, loyalty, friendship etc.


Hawkes, David wrote:
 
Marx’s gloss of Mephistopheles’s boast in the Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844 contains the seeds of his mature theory of alienation, expressed in terms that clearly reveal that theory’s heritage in the medieval campaign against magic:

. . . let us begin, first of all, by expounding the passage from Goethe.
That which is for me through the medium of money—that for which
I can pay (i.e., which money can buy)—that am I myself, the possessor
of the money. The extent of the power of money is the extent of my
power. Money’s properties are my—the possessor’s—properties and
essential powers. Thus, what I am and am capable of is by no means
determined by my individuality. I am ugly, but I can buy for myself the
most beautiful of women. Therefore I am not ugly, for the effect of
ugliness—its deterrent power—is nullified by money. I, according to my
individual characteristics, am lame, but money furnishes me with
twenty-four feet. Therefore I am not lame. . . . Do not I, who thanks to
money am capable of all that the human heart longs for, possess all
human capacities? (3.311)

Money is the medium of representation, when that medium has achieved the practical power of transforming essence by changing appearance.
It is the force which turns things into what they are not.
To possess money is to possess this antinatural, magical power.
Furthermore, quite apart from its innate capacities, money is ontologically the most unnatural force of all, because it is an externalized representation of human activity, of human life.
Money is the objectified form of subjectivity, at once the cause and the effect of conceiving of human beings as things.

"Anti-Natural magical power", he says.
Ha...
Who has been saying this for years around here?

Have we not seen it when they try to detach beauty from appearance, or value from a reference point?
It's the same nihilism, coming to us from across our western cultural past, our shared meme...


Ironically, from the pen of another Jew..


Hawkes, David wrote:
 
Money, in short, is the power that transforms human beings into objects: death. As Marx puts it:

The distorting and confounding of all human and natural qualities, the
fraternisation of impossibilities—the divine power of money—lies in
its character as men’s estranged, alienating and self-disposing speciesnature.
Money is the alienated ability of mankind. That which I am
unable to do as a man, and of which therefore all my individual essential
powers are incapable, I am able to do by means of money. Money thus
turns each of these powers into something which in itself it is not—turns
it, that is, into its contrary. (3.312)

According to Marx, the effect of money on the natural, physical world is precisely magical: it overrides the laws of nature and abolishes the distinction between fantasy and reality:

If I long for a particular dish or want to take the mail-coach because
I am not strong enough to go by foot, money fetches me the dish and the
mail-coach: that is, it converts my wishes from something in the realm
of imagination, translates them from their meditated, imagined or
desired existence into their sensuous, actual existence—from imagination
to life, from imagined being into real being. In effecting this mediation,
[money] is the truly creative power. (ibid.)

And not only money but symbol, word, number, abstraction....the noumenon replaces the phenomenon by detaching from it....looping back upon itself and referring back to another noumenon.
Masturbation, solipsism, the comforting liberation from a world that remains indifferent to our contrivances.  

Hawkes, David wrote:
 
To take a medium of representation for reality is to fetishize signification as performative, to believe that signs constitute things.
Once sufficiently captivated by signs that we can no longer perceive their referents, we lapse into the supposition that anything which is not immediately perceptible is not real.

The Age of Nihilism, Modernity, is upon us.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:06 pm

Hawkes, David wrote:
This was clearly understood by Friedrich Nietzsche, who attempted to reevaluate the master/slave dialectic by giving ethical primacy to the standpoint of the master.
In On the Genealogy of Morals, Nietzsche traces the transition between the Homeric moral dichotomy of “Good” and “Bad,” where the former designated the empirical characteristics of the master and the latter those of the slave, to the Judeo-Christian “slave revolt in morality”5 whereby the “Good” becomes identified with slavish qualities and the “Evil” associated with those of the master.

Announcing his own “transvaluation” of Judeo-Christian morality, Nietzsche goes beyond the Manichean position that the “god” who created the material world was in fact the devil.
This view had been kept alive by antinomian eccentrics like William Blake, whose The Marriage of Heaven and Hell rehearses many Nietzschean themes, and it had been channeled into the Romantic sympathy for The deification of Jesus represents the seductive power of the “Jewish” slave morality; it follows that the adversary who besets Jesus represents that morality’s adversary. “Satan,” for Nietzsche, is the “other” of the slave, he represents hostile and alien power as conceived from the slave’s perspective.
Nietzsche asks us to “picture ‘the enemy’ as the man of ressentiment conceives him—and here precisely is his deed, his creation: he has conceived ‘the evil enemy,’ ‘the Evil One,’ and this in fact is his basic concept, from which he then evolves, as an afterthought and pendant, a ‘good one’—himself!” (21).
Satan expressed by Byron in Manfred and Cain. But unlike Blake and Byron, Nietzsche did not reserve his ire for the stern God of the Old Testament.
He took the view expounded by Dostoevsky’s Grand Inquisitor, that even Jesus Christ had been a malign influence on human history.

Many moderns ignore Nietzsche's assaults on Judaism preferring to focus on his admiration, and his noble approach towards this memetic dis-ease.
Guided by a Judeo-Christian sentiment, enemies must be slaughtered, erased from the face of the earth.

The idea that one would value one's enemy, even a virus, because it serves a natural purpose, because it preserves and cuts away weakness, by doing what viruses do, escapes their "goodness".
The idea that one can admire what he does not want to associate with, cannot register is such resentful spirits.  

Why was Nietzsche anti-antisemitic?
Because he recognized in antisemitism the same spirit of resentment that characterized the memetic virus; because he saw that this was playing into the Jew's victim psychology.
The Jews identified with being victims, found pride and comfort in it, and those who accommodated them simply reinforced their ideals.
Hating the self-haters, denying them existence, is doing them a favor; it confirms their own life-hating, self-hating, desire to annul.
They were "chosen" to suffer...and to bring about the end of times. To hate them is to affirm their choseness.

Nietzsche can admire Jesus as a historical figure rebelling against Judaic slavishness and still renounce Saul's manipulation of the Jesus message to reaffirm Judaism with Christian universality.  
By critiquing Christianity he is attacking Judaism itself, still able to admire its tenacity and its method of survival....its overturning of reality to find power in its own powerlessness, and pride in its own shamefulness.

The pagan Romans would never have killed Jesus. for them he and his message was a harmless absurdity...one of many other spiritual methods of coping.
The Jews demanded his crucifixion because he threatened their power on earth. Their hatred made him into a martyr, later to be exploited by another Jew, Saul... and his message to be exploited by, yet, another Jew, Marx.


Hawkes, David wrote:

This is the conclusion reached by Goethe’s Faust, when he retranslates the Gospel of John’s logos from “word” to “deed,” and it is assumed by the protagonist in every version of the myth. When he sells his soul, Faust rejects the identification of his essence with an inalienable interior subject, and endorses Nietzsche’s view that the ability to act, the “will to power,” is the “essence of life.” The soul can readily be dispensed with, as merely a servile fantasy. Speaking of the slave, Nietzsche asserts:

This type of man needs to believe in a neutral independent “subject,”
prompted by an instinct for self-preservation and self-affirmation in
which every lie is sanctified. The subject (or, to use a more popular
expression, the soul) has perhaps been believed in hitherto more firmly
than anything else on earth because it makes possible to the majority of
mortals, the weak and oppressed of every kind, the sublime selfdeception
that interprets weakness as freedom, and their being thusand-
thus as a merit. (ibid.)

The lie becomes the new truth...the real becomes unreal, the unreal real....nihilistic overturning.
The phenomenon does not stimulate the noetic abstraction of it, but the noumenon creates the phenomenon.

Negative is turned to positive...need/suffering becomes pleasure.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:27 pm

Hawkes, David wrote:
Within the “economy” itself, the last twenty years have been characterized by “financialization.”
This term is used to describe the increasingly abstract, immaterial, and purely symbolic nature of money in the “new economy,” which gave rise to such concepts as Enron’s “weightless corporation,” allegedly capable of creating value without producing anything at all. As Ronald Reagan explained, this notion of value is the epiphany of representation’s triumph over reality:
In the new economy human invention increasingly makes natural resources obsolete.”

The term “financialization” can also refer to developments within the individual subject, as Randy Martin has observed
“Finance, the management of money’s ebbs and flows . . . presents itself as a merger of business and life cycles, as a means for the acquisition of self.
The financialization of daily life is a proposal for how to get ahead, but also a medium for the expansive movements of body and soul.”

The rapid expansion of consumer debt and credit, the growing personal investment in the stock market, in short, the practical and ideological translation of life into financial terms, all interpolate a new kind of individual.

Buying and selling noetic artifices, is how wealth is maintained as an illusion with no referential points.
Value out of thin air.

The ultimate end of a nihilistic, Modern, economy.
Markets with no resources.
Memetic markets.


Hawkes, David wrote:
The postmodern economy enacts a thoroughgoing, practical translation of human subjectivity into representational form. In wage labor, people exchange segments of their lives for money. Induced consumption encourages the construction of identity by means of brand labels.
The stock market vivifies abstract human activity. At the theoretical level, neoclassical economics makes it possible to quantify in financial terms subjective human experiences such as credit, confidence, and trust.

These experiences are literally transformed into money: that is to say, into performative signs.
Furthermore, the history of money itself displays a relentless progress toward abstraction.
From commodity money such as conch shells or cow hides, through gold bullion, to paper money, checks, and electronic money to the purely psychological money of the twenty-first century, the development of money seems almost designed to incrementally reveal its true nature as an efficacious symbol.

This towards abstraction is towards the noumenon detaching from the phenomenon.
The right uses it to legitimize exploiting human stupidity, and the left uses it to legitimize their uniforming abstractions of humanism, and its noetic products of feminism, egalitarianism, racial and sexual uniformity and so on.

And if you can manufacture and market noetic resources and wealth, then why not noetic value(s), with an ontology of their own?


And on Modern music...


Hawkes, David wrote:

After he has completed his pact with the devil, Leverkuhn invents a new technique of musical composition, which is based on Arnold Schoenberg’s ‘twelve-tone method.’ Mann’s choice of Schoenberg as his model was inspired by the theories of Theodor Adorno, and the extent of their collaboration, as described by Mann in The Story of a Novel, virtually earns Adorno the status of coauthor of Doctor Faustus.
Mann was particularly impressed by Adorno’s awareness that the various ‘fields’ of human culture were in fact aspects within a larger process. In this Adorno has, according to Mann, captured the Zeitgeist:

‘All his life this man of remarkable intellect has refused to choose between the professions of philosophy and music. He felt that he was actually pursuing the same thing in both divergent realms. . . . The phenomenon is no longer unique nowadays and is doubtless connected with the whole complex of problems of our time.’

In his Philosophy of Modern Music, parts of which Mann puts almost verbatim into the mouth of Satan, Adorno claims that Schoenberg’s twelve-tone system expresses the absolute dominance of economic exchange-value over use-value. Adorno describes his theoretical purpose in the famous essay on “The Fetish-character in Music”:

‘. . . to point out the inner fluctuations suffered by musical phenomena through their integration into commercialized . . . production, and to illustrate, at the same time, how certain anthropological shiftings in standardized society extend deeply into the structure of musical hearing.’

Let us recall here that exchange-value is an imposition of representation on reality. It takes humanly devised significances and grafts them onto the inherent use-values of natural objects. It imposes an artificial, quantitative equivalence on objects that are qualitatively, naturally, essentially, different. The rule of exchange-value is the death of essentialism and teleology: its triumph is the victory of signs over nature.”

....Let us recall here that exchange-value is an imposition of representation on reality. It takes humanly devised significances and grafts them onto the inherent use-values of natural objects. It imposes an artificial, quantitative equivalence on objects that are qualitatively, naturally, essentially, different. The rule of exchange-value is the death of essentialism and teleology: its triumph is the victory of signs over nature.
Music is an apt medium through which to explore such shifts in the status of representation, for it is a non-referential or autonomous form of expression. Musical notes do not point toward external referents, they contain all their meaning within themselves. Music therefore has a plausible claim to be the purest form of art, and it has historically been a theological discipline, since musical harmony was believed to reflect and express the divine harmony of the universe.

…Leverkuhn’s method is unable to avoid the recurring tritone— which, because it disrupts harmonic progression, was traditionally called the ‘devil’s interval’—and as a result his music is disturbing and unpleasant to listen to. Schoenberg himself referred to this process as ‘the emancipation of the dissonance,’ and called it a ‘method of composing with twelve tones which are related only one with another.’
Schoenberg’s music is internally non-referential: its individual tones do not relate to any one keynote. In his work, unlike in harmonic music, the tones are not significant essentially, or ‘in themselves’: their significance is relational—it emerges from their relation to the other tones of the sequence.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:04 am

Metaphorical Binary System and their pre-Modernity spiritual anthropomorphic Symbolism


The Pagan Tale

In this version of the dualistic good/bad, one/nil, chaos, order, the Greek gods of Apollo and Dionysus are used.
Not because the Greeks considered them central figures in the drama of existence, but because Nietzsche, having grown up in a Christian household, uses them as metaphorical agencies to express his antithesis to the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].


In paganism the gods are all representation of order, natural order, and so all are reaffirmations of life, which is the manifestation of this order.
Dionysus reminds us that there is chaos.
Something most can only accept if inebriated, and their inhibitions, fears, numbed to the point where they can be honest with themselves.  

Dionysus is not the antithesis to Apollo.
Both are aspects of the same order, which is nature.
And only two representations amongst many others.

Nietzsche sets up Dionysus as a chaotic Satan-type metaphor, juxtaposed to Apollo's godly order.
He reminds man that chaos is, whereas order is ephemeral, and demands struggle, producing the sensation, the experience of need/suffering.
Apollo is the ideal which remains, like the christian God, unattainable.

The reduction of possibility, probability/order, produces is illusory, or, at least, not eternal, not complete, not perfect.
The acceptance of chaos is a part of growing out of man's resentiment towards his own temporal nature.
Chaos confronts man but also offers him options....the will to choose and to create.
order inspires him, but also contains man.

But not all order is the same. Because order is ephemeral, in a world tending towards chaos, man can project any kind of order he wishes...resulting in the different ideologies, spiritual traditions and deities.
Man, life, orders self, restricts possibilities in self, resulting in ideals and nobility and a purpose, but also recognizes that without chaos this order would result in stagnation, in a static, singular, end...non-existence.  
And this is the part where man embraces both chaos and order as both being necessary for him to continue existing, making Satan and God equally present in man.
This is the Hellenic balance rooted in paganism.

Man does not give-in to chaos, but struggles against it to construct his own.  

But, as I noted before, not all order is the same.
Some order is based on an acceptance of the past/nature whereas other forms of projected order, the nihilistic kind, reject the past/nature, contradict it, annul it, to free themselves from its limiting probabilities.
But this is a lie, because chaos is the antithesis to the order life is about.
This rejection of past/nature is a rejection of self, so as to make self an artificial imaginary, pretentious construct.  

In paganism there is no escape from order, from past/nature, only an acknowledgment that without chaos, which occurs whether we will it or not, with no effort, there is no becoming no agon, no struggle, and so no growth, no reproduction, no creativity, no consciousness.

Were not the titans necessary to birth the gods?

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:01 pm

Mike, Gene wrote:
THE CONCEPT OF CONSUMPTION
The crucial theoretical discussion however begins with a systematic
critique of homo economicus, especially the assumptions which revolve
around the notion of the sovereign individual consumer who functions
to maximize pleasures in relation to a finite but uncoordinated set of
needs. Modern affluent society appears in this perspective to be driven
by the full action of individual wants now given complete freedom of
action in a situation of great abundance. This general conception, for
Baudrillard, is both theoretically unacceptable (the individual appears to want what he needs and needs what he wants), and empirically unable to account for the specific proliferation of goods and objects.
Although apparently made up of empirical components, the notion of homo economicus is a metaphysic, and has to be replaced with a more incisive social theory. So too he says in a move which breaks with humanist Marxism, does its alternative, the notion of the alienated consumer, a
‘pseudo-philosophy’, itself only part of the mythology of consumer society (1970:100).

Baudrillard proceeds by elaborating his own ‘genealogy’ of consumption (1988b:42), indicating four basic departures from traditional economies: a new technical system of machines, capital and rational calculation, a wage system based on abstract labour, and a system of demand related to an integrated system of needs. These ‘needs’ are radically different from the category of pleasure
(jouissance), since they are systematically related in their own right, and not, as one might think, a direct connection of want with an object which might in principle satisfy it.
In this light, he argues, it is important to consider consumption not as some slight addition to the
circuit of capital (an alienation), but as a crucial productive force for capital itself.

.........And it is clear, he says, that what the naive notion of affluence as the liberation of human desires neglects is the paradoxical reassertion from time to time of puritanical ideologies. The very
instance in which the individual realizes his or her own pleasures is in fact the site not only of a new consciousness but, more fundamentally, of new disciplines running parallel to apparent emancipation—
disciplines which carry their own forms of systematization, concentration, seduction, gratification, and repressive desublimation— in other words, he notes, alienation correctly understood (1988b:43).

..............Following Lévi-Strauss, he argues that what occurs is a kind of meta consumption. As differences are structured into objects, it is precisely the differential social relations which are consumed.
Social status is therefore reproduced principally in the consumption of object differences, and it is at the level, a second, unconscious level, of its inner relations that the code itself functions as an unconscious ideological apparatus (dispositif); and it is highly effective as a disciplinary structure because it is desired, pleasurable, gratificatory (1970:136).
It makes its appearance in the form of involved emancipation and free choice, under the power of the individual will, yet the code determines this process effectively, perhaps inducing the deepest form of social control.
But this general process is also intensified by the action of the new mass media. According to Baudrillard, this works through the construction of cultural models, which like the exterior forms of
personalization of objects, come to exercise new personalization effects on consumers. His main example here is the catastrophic turn in the form of the masculine and the feminine in consumer society. His argument has three basic steps. First, modern advertising induces a change in the relation to the subject itself, in the general direction of increased narcissism, even a ‘personalized narcissism’: the ideal ‘referent’ is the buyer, the purchaser—actually a collective social process which diffracts itself towards each subject as it interpellates them. The system ultimately induces a form of subject auto-seduction: the self-consumption of the subject.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:01 am

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Into the rabbit hole...

The power of words...and their magic

In order for words to have an effect all participants must be integrated into the "logic" implied by the particular language.
One cannot affect a tree with words, nor a tiger using language, unless this language is translated into a form the other organism can comprehend.
In this case only action can bridge the gap between human translation and animal understanding.
Say anything in English to a Japanese man who has not been integrated into English logic, through training, education, and you will have zero effect on him.
Your words will remain impotent.
He is immune to your form of  magic.
A word's magic only has an effect within the paradigm the language, it represents, creates. Only those who participate in its logic can be affected by its power.  
Learning a language is entering into a ritual that will place you within the domain of a language's magical power.

Language, translates the phenomenon into code which can then be transmitted to another, either by translating it back into an artificial phenomenon, a technique/technology, or by translating it into another code.
Language's magic is found in its ability to transform the phenomenon into noumenon, and then back again.

When man, for example, builds a machine, or invents a technique/technology, he is translating the perceived, experienced phenomenon into a code that can then be replicated as machine or machination.
Man does not conjure up artifices out of nothing... he uses the present, the apparent, and translates it into useful, to him, symbols.
For example, gender is not a human invention, it is the translation of sexual specialized roles within man-made contexts.
A code is a simplification/generalization, an abstraction, of the phenomenon.
Phenomenon translated into noumenon, means genetics translated into memetics.

Man invents the computer to mirror his brain functions; he invents a camera using his eye as a model; he invents data transmissions using neurological pulses as his inspiration; he invents indoor plumbing using his own internal plumbing as a reference... man replicates, or to use Baudrillard's terminology, he simulates, because a generalization/simplification (abstraction) is an approximation, a representation that may refer to a phenomenon to a greater or to a lesser degree.
Man invents by translating, simulating the phenomenon as technique/technology.
Language, and math, are techniques.
The goal is to shrink the approximation to a level where the representation, the simulation, is almost a tautology with what is being represented and simulated.
Math deals with this shrinking of the divergence of the noumenon from the phenomenon.
The Black Hole is approached trying to reach the presumed singularity; absolutes are  simulated and then imposed upon a world that lacks them.
Man interprets reality, as he perceives it – his on/off binary neurological processes - and then replicates, or translates these processes into codes, and then into models, machines, techniques, technologies, ideas and so on – he translates the phenomenon into a noumenon, which can then be reintegrated or replicated into another phenomenon... a simulation.

An organism, being the product of ordering, is attracted to ordering (symmetry, beauty)... and can only perceive order everywhere.
Chaos is nonsensical to it.
An ordering brain (consciousness) cannot make sense of randomness, nor of order above a certain level of complexity (interactivity, producing possibilities).
Black matter, the endless search for the god-particle, may indicate man's inability to conceptualize the truly chaotic, the random.  
It cannot find a pattern to construct a mental model in randomness, and complexity, so it is lost as noise.
complexity and randomness become interchangeable...man preferring complexity where, at least, the possibility of finding an underlying order remains intact.

This is why man in order to conceptualize chaos must make it into a more complex form of order.
He cannot conceptualize randomness, unless he translates it into complexity; a qualification of ordering.
Randomness is counter-intuitive, to him... and so quantum physics baffles him, because it contradicts his linguistic presuppositions and the mental processes he evolved to use to make sense of the world.
He needs to integrate it into a unified model so as to make it comprehensible.

The concept of randomness fills man with anxiety. Better to find a pattern in the "negative", in the evil, than accept the presence of a truly random event.
It's irrationality, its unemotional indifference, its unpredictability, terrifies man, who is a form of ordering in the disordering - a (re)action to entropy.

To conceptualize the universe he must reduce it to a singularity that contradicts its internal structures.
The universe IS the one which is not found within it, in the same way the Christian God contradicts His own premises, being the exception to His won rule.
All is multiplicity within the singularity of the uni-verse, just as all has a cause except the nihilist God.

A transmutation, when man  projects himself, noetically, "outside" space/time, where phenomena (inter)act, to then abstracts the cosmos as a thing, a singularity, which (inter)acts with nothing.
A magic trick with no meaning outside word-games.
The very idea of a singularity, oneness, is nonsensical, but accepted as logical within man's binary linguistic systems.
It is "logical" within the presuppositions of the mathematical paradigm, that takes 1/0 binary symbols as a given.
In English the same abstractions are represented by multiple words, two of which are: some-thing/no-thing, with thingness being the singular presupposed noumenon.
If taken literally, as Christians do, then God becomes plausible, and for humanists and secular nihilists all forms of absolutes preceding or remaining "outside" the experienced (time space) become plausible, as well.

The symptom of nihilistic entrapment is this need to take literally of the figurative, approximating, symbolism of words/numbers.

When man losses himself in his own contrivances he begins to believe his symbols and codes are more real than reality, or that they can affect reality without being translated back into a phenomenon.
Words begin to acquire their magical force. they exit the time/space continuum.   
Words are seductive because they can be used to suspend reality, and the laws that govern it.
He begins to take with words and numbers literally rather than figuratively and as representation, art-forms, simulations, codes of translating and transmitting experiences.
This is what inevitably results in the Nihilism of Modernity, where numbers acquire a magical power, along with words.
Taking the word/number literally means that one replaces the phenomenon with its reference to a noumenon, an abstraction.
The word/number is n o longer a representation, a symbol, but it replaces the referenced phenomenon, and because words are malleable, controllable, man feels like he is gaining control over the world.
Living in a noetic world, a solipsistic self-referential paradigm, where the meme disconnects from the real, creating a memetic alternate reality entirely willful, is how the nihilistic paradigm becomes viral.
Everything is about human choices: sex, race, beauty... everything a matter of human choice.
Man chooses his own tastes, predispositions... nothing is determined for him.  
He is "free" from the past/nature.  

"First came the word..."
God as word, which precedes reality.
Man projects himself in the place of God, using words to declare himself whatever he wishes were true.

But language has its own logic, and numbers are no different.
When we speak of mathematical logic we speak of an internally validating model.
1+1=2 is a "logical" mathematical phrase once we've accepted the magical quality of one, implying a nil, both of which have no reference outside the human brain.
They are magically conjured up as real, and transmitted to the other as self-evident.
The mode of transmitting data becomes the message being transmitted; how to translate the data is contained in the method of its own transferring.

When the mind has been integrated, assimilated, into the shared code, accepting its premises as a given, then the common logic follows.
How the words/numbers are reconfigured into thoughts is part of the translating and transmitting.
This is how words and numbers become instruments of magic.
When a magician does his tricks he is drafting the other into his premises.
The other participates in the magic act; he is a part of the performance.
He is letting him trick himself, using slight of hand, redirection, repetition, and so on.
The ones integrated into the "logic" of words and numbers are willing participants in the conjuring power of these symbols.
By learning a language you become a participant in its magical effects.
Now reality can be inverted, convoluted, invented out of thin air, without any phenomenon to refer to – pure noumenon, pure abstraction, words with mystical powers.

McLuhan told us that “the medium is the message”... meaning the medium of code, of words and numbers is its own message... it has its own innate logic which is transmitted to the brain, as one programs a computer using software.
The brain cannot think outside these premises.
It is trapped in its logic.
The code is the intermediating translation, simulation that can then be re-translated into any other form.

It can be thought of as the fabric of reality, as something to heal cancer, or to explain everything...
The flexibility of a detached noetic device lends itself to any magical trick.
It is not bound by any indifferent reality.
Linear time does not stop it, because it is not limited by phenomena.
And so Will to Power can imply a willing of will... and God can create himself, or love can precede the organic sensation and its survival advantages, and pleasure can be made into an end rather than a sensation of satisfying needs... value can precede the emergence of a brain to pass judgments and to value in accordance with its own needs, and beauty can be chosen with no connection to anything organic and so on.
The applications of this magic are endless, and the one talented in its ways is the shaman, the magi, the priest; the translating conduit between noumenon and phenomenon.
Anything is possible when the noetic abstraction is no longer attached to a phenomenon.
It is magic... pure and simple.
A trick played upon the mind with its participation, willful or not.

The word's magical power is found in its freedom from reality, symbolizing the brain's ability to constructs its won reality.  
It is a noetic device, a technique, a translation that need not apply to a reality, but remain magically detached and mystical.

"First there was the word..." is a declaration of war against reality.
The noumenon annulling the phenomenon.
Part of the counter-measures can only be the reattachment of words to their original reference points in the world.
Only then is the word demystified losing its magical effects.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:24 am

Gene, Mike wrote:
It is the world of trial/error, of the personality test, of the referendum, of functionality in life through a reduction of everything to the yes/no.
It is as though ‘the entire system of communication has passed from that of a syntactically complex language structure to a binary sign system’ (1976; 1983f: 116–17).

As everything is pre-structured, social life becomes formed into a continuous stream of tests. These are always found to be ‘perfect forms of simulation’ and the ideal instruments for the conjuring of a new substance, public opinion. This substance is not, however, like the old abstract essences which were formed in relation to systems of imagined real or natural worlds.
This order goes beyond this into the order of hyperreality itself: effectively the real world, its otherness, has been left behind as an idea appropriate to a different way of thinking. The intrusion of the binary schema, the 0/1, the yes/no, question/response, begins, effectively and dramatically, to render, immediately, every discourse inarticulate.
It crushes the world of meaningful dialogue, of representation, of the formulation of questions which may be difficult, even impossible to answer: a golden age of discourse based on the play of real and appearance is abolished.
From now on the media determine ‘the very style of montage, of decoupage, of interpellation, solicitation, summation’ (1976; 1983f:123).
Contrary to all expectations, as McLuhan alone has pointed out, says Baudrillard, this new age is not visual but tactile; everywhere it is the test, the prestructured interrogation, that is the manipulator
and formulator of the new consciousness.

Notice on ILP how beauty is turned into a fashion trend, or a kind of community agreement, that changes from epoch to epoch.

Sex becomes a fashion statement. One year fucking men is "in" the next fucking women.
Beauty has no objective source, but it is a decisions made by the community - a democratic vote that may, at some point, make the ugly beautiful.

The modern loses himself in the details of more meat on the bones, versus less meat on the bones, to excuse himself from the natural recognition of symmetry which cannot be hidden by meat over bones, or by flattering fashion-wear.
The markers of fertility, sexual appeal, are linked to an greater appreciation of beauty as a symmetry in proportionality, color schemes, tonal harmonies, attracting the mind as a higher form of probability and a decrease in chaos, in increasing possibility.


Gene, Mike wrote:
This leads to a basic proposition: this form of simulation explains why public opinion in a modern democracy does not tend towards a single party.
Indeed one-party states are genuinely unstable in comparison. The strange paradox is that all the immense effort made to reproduce public opinion ends up in societies that are ‘puffed up on mere wind’ (Baudrillard 1983f: 130).
As this ‘hot air’ is entirely circular and tautological it can be seen as the ironic vengeance of the polled and the tested. The masses respond with a magnificent and triumphant vengeance of complete nullity in which the power structures are mirrored.
In the end it is true to say that the end of representation is brought about by the representatives who
manipulate and control the responses so well as to leave no remainder.

Duality of good/bad offers the illusion that a choice is made, when harmonization has imploded discourse to an either/or dualism, that an organism functioning on binary on/off neurological methods finds comforting.
Possibility reduced to a yes/no simplification.
The Modern feels free when his entire world-view is contained within this binary restriction.

Right/Left, Conservative/Liberal are the extent of his "complexity" and his understanding.


Gene, Mike wrote:
This is an important continuation of reflections established in an earlier period and developed now in relation to his new conception of the structural law of value and how it invades modern cultures at every level.
It specifies four processes which develop unequally but simultaneously: a movement towards the adoption of models and their simulation, in which there is, second, a differential play of elements, and in which, third, the elements become ‘indifferent’ to one another.

Finally simulation is structured by the play of uniform values (equivalences made possible by the process of homogenization). All social spheres are affected by this process and one essential way in which this is achieved is through fashion: this is quite evident in clothes and consumer items, but it also begins to affect politics, science, and even sexuality. But lying even more deeply in the culture
are crucial effects borne of the process of its formation.
Adopting and extending Foucault’s analyses of the genesis of modern forms of normalization, Baudrillard argues that the destruction of the symbolic modes of relating to death has meant that there is an unresolved problem of facing the dead in our societies, just as there is in facing the ill, the disabled, the criminal: contemporary societies cannot find a solution to the problem that they have themselves created—that the dead are dead.

But, first of all, take the problem of sexuality, he suggests. Once this passes into the realm of fashion there begins to develop a pattern of distinctive oppositions, and an immense system of fetishism begins to emerge, the object of both fascination and manipulation.

This development involves a rupture in the culture, in the social imaginary, exactly at the moment when the new signs begin to alternate: it produces a kind of degrading and levelling of previous practices and values, a kind of general promiscuity of elements.
It also sets off a resistance similar to that registered when sexuality falls into the realm of commodity exchange, but here it falls into the realm of fashion and signs: this results in a cool unrestrained
sexuality freed from the previous system of boundaries and controls (Baudrillard 1976:132).

Sex integrates into the reproductive, simulations.
A product to be sold and purchased in its multiple reproductions.
Sex not as a product of natural selection, with a particular purpose, but freed from this genetic link, becoming another memetic representation.

The individual feels as if he has chosen his own sexuality.
He can alter it, to remain up-to-date with fashion trends.

Man invents himself from scratch, from bits and pieces.


Gene, Mike wrote:
The fashion system of signification penetrates every way of relating to the body. The historical formation of fashion closely follows this order: in the early phases of capitalism it remained outside the artisan and peasant groups and was associated with marginal, or urban and foreign strata; in a second phase it began to penetrate and integrate all cultural signs as material production was integrated into political economy as the market became universal, but fashion was dominated specifically by the dominant cultural class. In the third phase fashion becomes a general way of life and no sphere escapes its logic: it has its own form of negativity (that which it defines as what it is to be not to be in fashion), becomes its own signified (as does production in the age of reproduction), and in the final state, just as it becomes universal, it disappears as a specific sphere; everything becomes fashion.

One basic effect of this is a change in the relation to the unclothed body. In primitive societies, the body is painted and decorated. This is meaningful and structured in an exchange system and does not have a specifically aesthetic fashionableness. When the system of fashion begins to invade this terrain, the symbolic order of such meanings is abolished. It even brings about a new instrumental use of the naked body to induce a sexual tactics around nudity (a new pattern of simulation of the body). This changes above all the precise meaning and value of the female body itself in the culture.
The irony is that the ‘liberation’ of fashion is also the moment of the ‘liberation’ of women. It is only quite recently that the body has been increasingly sexualized in its repression. This is both recent and is already beginning to change, its work done. The body, however, in this repressed form is the site of the action of signs of the fashion system; relieved of these elements the body is a model without attributes. Fashion has become modern sexuality in the sense that it has the function of establishing these qualities or attributes.
As everything gets drawn into this system gradually all culture is affected by this specific sexual character, not sex itself but sexualization; by an inverse movement sex itself is influenced by this new sexualization of all spheres, unique to our culture. As it is the feminine body which is the emblem of this process, women’s liberation is caught up in it. Following Foucault’s own exemplary analysis of madness (which he turns into a fundamental process of the formation of the modern world) he suggests that, as women leave their traditional seclusion, society is itself feminized.
It is as if, like proletarians, liberated only to be a labour force, women are liberated as a ‘force’ for pleasure, for fashion:

From the moment women enter the world of work like everyone else,
on the model of the proletariat, all the world enters the world of
emancipated sex and fashion, on the model of women.
(Baudrillard 1976:149)

In this case it can be seen that if the worker is separated from himself in the process of exploitation under capitalism, women are separated from themselves and their own bodies under the sign of beauty and the pleasure principle.

Everything becomes fashion...materialism, hedonism.

The feedback loop of gratification, of endless reproductions feeding needs, are turned into the end in itself.
Masturbation is a form of solipsistic self-indulgence.

The price is decreased because of this reproducabilty.



Gene, Mike wrote:
Yet this is not realized in the form of a hot, fevered, and fantastic world like that of surrealism.
Hyperrealist art itself is cool, radically disenchanted, realized in the euphoria of the disappearance of cause and effect, beginning and end:

analogous to the effect of distantiation internal to the dream, that
makes us say we are only dreaming, but this is only a game of
censure and of perpetuation of the dream, hyperrealism is made an
integral part of a coded reality which it perpetuates.
(Baudrillard 1976; 1983f:147)

Gene, Mike wrote:
THE HYPERREAL AND AESTHETICIZATION
This discussion leads Baudrillard to consider the hyperreal in more detail. It is not a form of the surreal which still plays with the existence of the real and requires it for its own effects. The distinction between the real and its representation begins to be effaced.
In some cases this starts off from a reproduction of the ‘real’ in another medium, but as it passes from medium to medium the real is ‘volatized’ out of its former apparent solidity. It becomes hyperreal and hallucinatory. Out of the crisis of representation the hyperreal has had to be connected to repetition, first in relation to a reproduction of reality, but as reproducibility is established as dominant it ceased to require this support. This changes the whole cultural relation to the object, for
example, as exemplified in modern literature, where objectivity is gradually disengaged from the object itself. This represents the end of metaphor and metonymy and the end of complex cultural syntax, in favour of a gaze which sweeps over objects without seeing in them anything other than their objectness. In this new order the new seductions of solicitation and passive involvement can be recognized as the manipulation of a ‘joyous feedback’ instituted in a new ecology of operationalized needs and desires. Leisure centres set up total environments, with the requisite complement of a new ambience (Baudrillard 1983f:140).

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:57 pm

Satyr wrote:
Gene, Mike wrote:
It is the world of trial/error, of the personality test, of the referendum, of functionality in life through a reduction of everything to the yes/no.
It is as though ‘the entire system of communication has passed from that of a syntactically complex language structure to a binary sign system’ (1976; 1983f: 116–17).

As everything is pre-structured, social life becomes formed into a continuous stream of tests. These are always found to be ‘perfect forms of simulation’ and the ideal instruments for the conjuring of a new substance, public opinion. This substance is not, however, like the old abstract essences which were formed in relation to systems of imagined real or natural worlds.
This order goes beyond this into the order of hyperreality itself: effectively the real world, its otherness, has been left behind as an idea appropriate to a different way of thinking. The intrusion of the binary schema, the 0/1, the yes/no, question/response, begins, effectively and dramatically, to render, immediately, every discourse inarticulate.
It crushes the world of meaningful dialogue, of representation, of the formulation of questions which may be difficult, even impossible to answer: a golden age of discourse based on the play of real and appearance is abolished.
From now on the media determine ‘the very style of montage, of decoupage, of interpellation, solicitation, summation’ (1976; 1983f:123).
Contrary to all expectations, as McLuhan alone has pointed out, says Baudrillard, this new age is not visual but tactile; everywhere it is the test, the prestructured interrogation, that is the manipulator
and formulator of the new consciousness.

Notice on ILP how beauty is turned into a fashion trend, or a kind of community agreement, that changes from epoch to epoch.

Sex becomes a fashion statement. One year fucking men is "in" the next fucking women.
Beauty has no objective source, but it is a decisions made by the community - a democratic vote that may, at some point, make the ugly beautiful.

The modern loses himself in the details of more meat on the bones, versus less meat on the bones, to excuse himself from the natural recognition of symmetry which cannot be hidden by meat over bones, or by flattering fashion-wear.  
The markers of fertility, sexual appeal, are linked to an greater appreciation of beauty as a symmetry in proportionality, color schemes, tonal harmonies, attracting the mind as a higher form of probability and a decrease in chaos, in increasing possibility.


Gene, Mike wrote:
This leads to a basic proposition: this form of simulation explains why public opinion in a modern democracy does not tend towards a single party.
Indeed one-party states are genuinely unstable in comparison. The strange paradox is that all the immense effort made to reproduce public opinion ends up in societies that are ‘puffed up on mere wind’ (Baudrillard 1983f: 130).
As this ‘hot air’ is entirely circular and tautological it can be seen as the ironic vengeance of the polled and the tested. The masses respond with a magnificent and triumphant vengeance of complete nullity in which the power structures are mirrored.
In the end it is true to say that the end of representation is brought about by the representatives who
manipulate and control the responses so well as to leave no remainder.

Duality of good/bad offers the illusion that a choice is made, when harmonization has imploded discourse to an either/or dualism, that an organism functioning on binary on/off neurological methods finds comforting.
Possibility reduced to a yes/no simplification.
The Modern feels free when his entire world-view is contained within this binary restriction.

Right/Left, Conservative/Liberal are the extent of his "complexity" and his understanding.  


Gene, Mike wrote:
This is an important continuation of reflections established in an earlier period and developed now in relation to his new conception of the structural law of value and how it invades modern cultures at every level.
It specifies four processes which develop unequally but simultaneously: a movement towards the adoption of models and their simulation, in which there is, second, a differential play of elements, and in which, third, the elements become ‘indifferent’ to one another.

Finally simulation is structured by the play of uniform values (equivalences made possible by the process of homogenization). All social spheres are affected by this process and one essential way in which this is achieved is through fashion: this is quite evident in clothes and consumer items, but it also begins to affect politics, science, and even sexuality. But lying even more deeply in the culture
are crucial effects borne of the process of its formation.
Adopting and extending Foucault’s analyses of the genesis of modern forms of normalization, Baudrillard argues that the destruction of the symbolic modes of relating to death has meant that there is an unresolved problem of facing the dead in our societies, just as there is in facing the ill, the disabled, the criminal: contemporary societies cannot find a solution to the problem that they have themselves created—that the dead are dead.

But, first of all, take the problem of sexuality, he suggests. Once this passes into the realm of fashion there begins to develop a pattern of distinctive oppositions, and an immense system of fetishism begins to emerge, the object of both fascination and manipulation.

This development involves a rupture in the culture, in the social imaginary, exactly at the moment when the new signs begin to alternate: it produces a kind of degrading and levelling of previous practices and values, a kind of general promiscuity of elements.
It also sets off a resistance similar to that registered when sexuality falls into the realm of commodity exchange, but here it falls into the realm of fashion and signs: this results in a cool unrestrained
sexuality freed from the previous system of boundaries and controls (Baudrillard 1976:132).

Sex integrates into the reproductive, simulations.
A product to be sold and purchased in its multiple reproductions.
Sex not as a product of natural selection, with a particular purpose, but freed from this genetic link, becoming another memetic representation.

The individual feels as if he has chosen his own sexuality.
He can alter it, to remain up-to-date with fashion trends.

Man invents himself from scratch, from bits and pieces.


Gene, Mike wrote:
The fashion system of signification penetrates every way of relating to the body. The historical formation of fashion closely follows this order: in the early phases of capitalism it remained outside the artisan and peasant groups and was associated with marginal, or urban and foreign strata; in a second phase it began to penetrate and integrate all cultural signs as material production was integrated into political economy as the market became universal, but fashion was dominated specifically by the dominant cultural class. In the third phase fashion becomes a general way of life and no sphere escapes its logic: it has its own form of negativity (that which it defines as what it is to be not to be in fashion), becomes its own signified (as does production in the age of reproduction), and in the final state, just as it becomes universal, it disappears as a specific sphere; everything becomes fashion.

One basic effect of this is a change in the relation to the unclothed body. In primitive societies, the body is painted and decorated. This is meaningful and structured in an exchange system and does not have a specifically aesthetic fashionableness. When the system of fashion begins to invade this terrain, the symbolic order of such meanings is abolished. It even brings about a new instrumental use of the naked body to induce a sexual tactics around nudity (a new pattern of simulation of the body). This changes above all the precise meaning and value of the female body itself in the culture.
The irony is that the ‘liberation’ of fashion is also the moment of the ‘liberation’ of women. It is only quite recently that the body has been increasingly sexualized in its repression. This is both recent and is already beginning to change, its work done. The body, however, in this repressed form is the site of the action of signs of the fashion system; relieved of these elements the body is a model without attributes. Fashion has become modern sexuality in the sense that it has the function of establishing these qualities or attributes.
As everything gets drawn into this system gradually all culture is affected by this specific sexual character, not sex itself but sexualization; by an inverse movement sex itself is influenced by this new sexualization of all spheres, unique to our culture. As it is the feminine body which is the emblem of this process, women’s liberation is caught up in it. Following Foucault’s own exemplary analysis of madness (which he turns into a fundamental process of the formation of the modern world) he suggests that, as women leave their traditional seclusion, society is itself feminized.
It is as if, like proletarians, liberated only to be a labour force, women are liberated as a ‘force’ for pleasure, for fashion:

From the moment women enter the world of work like everyone else,
on the model of the proletariat, all the world enters the world of
emancipated sex and fashion, on the model of women.
(Baudrillard 1976:149)

In this case it can be seen that if the worker is separated from himself in the process of exploitation under capitalism, women are separated from themselves and their own bodies under the sign of beauty and the pleasure principle.

Everything becomes fashion...materialism, hedonism.

The feedback loop of gratification, of endless reproductions feeding needs, are turned into the end in itself.
Masturbation is a form of solipsistic self-indulgence.

The price is decreased because of this reproducabilty.  



Gene, Mike wrote:
Yet this is not realized in the form of a hot, fevered, and fantastic world like that of surrealism.
Hyperrealist art itself is cool, radically disenchanted, realized in the euphoria of the disappearance of cause and effect, beginning and end:

analogous to the effect of distantiation internal to the dream, that
makes us say we are only dreaming, but this is only a game of
censure and of perpetuation of the dream, hyperrealism is made an
integral part of a coded reality which it perpetuates.
(Baudrillard 1976; 1983f:147)

Gene, Mike wrote:
THE HYPERREAL AND AESTHETICIZATION
This discussion leads Baudrillard to consider the hyperreal in more detail. It is not a form of the surreal which still plays with the existence of the real and requires it for its own effects. The distinction between the real and its representation begins to be effaced.
In some cases this starts off from a reproduction of the ‘real’ in another medium, but as it passes from medium to medium the real is ‘volatized’ out of its former apparent solidity. It becomes hyperreal and hallucinatory. Out of the crisis of representation the hyperreal has had to be connected to repetition, first in relation to a reproduction of reality, but as reproducibility is established as dominant it ceased to require this support. This changes the whole cultural relation to the object, for
example, as exemplified in modern literature, where objectivity is gradually disengaged from the object itself. This represents the end of metaphor and metonymy and the end of complex cultural syntax, in favour of a gaze which sweeps over objects without seeing in them anything other than their objectness. In this new order the new seductions of solicitation and passive involvement can be recognized as the manipulation of a ‘joyous feedback’ instituted in a new ecology of operationalized needs and desires. Leisure centres set up total environments, with the requisite complement of a new ambience (Baudrillard 1983f:140).

Yes, social intelligence or socialization is valued over overall intelligence or mental fitness. What we see in the multifaceted manifestations of "modernity" is its consequentiality, with expressive influence on genotype.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:19 pm

Gene, Mike wrote:
It is interesting to note (again implicitly raising reflexive problems for himself) that even fashion moves to the second degree in the period dominated by transvestism, as everyone is induced not to be in fashion but to adopt an individual ‘look’.
This makes fashion a performance, as everyone searches for an act of appearance, rather, he says, indicating the timelessness of his own problematic, as if McLuhan’s notion of the tactile image has been generalized beyond its immediate domain into a field of differential play without any particular conviction, and so fashion becomes a disenchanted form after all, an indifferent, transient mannerism. This indeed casts, he suggests, a curious light on the sexual revolution once thought to be an irruption of maximal erotic value, the rise to privilege of the feminine and of pleasure.

In fact, in retrospect, this phase was simply a short episode on the way to the confusion of genders, of transsexualism. But, he notes, this may well be the fate of all revolutions since it appears that one of the fundamental revolutions, that of technique ends in the same way: am I person or machine?
We have become transsexual in the way we have become transpolitical in general: undifferentiated and indifferent.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:31 am

Our mysteries do not require a "beyond" or an "above", nor are we mesmerized and seduced by the products of our own interpretations, attempting to bridge the gap, to fall victim to their easy promises.

Our spirituality is born of our worldly experiences, and our direct and honest engagement with reality.

What then is mystifying about the world, in relation to man?
It's fluidity.
When entropy is increasing the emergent (re)action to it of ordering will contradict the flow of time.
How does one adequately capture fluidity, fluctuations of (inter)activity, with static, symbols?
How does one adequately represent the dynamic by using simplifying/generalizing abstractions?  

Something is lost in the translation, and this lost something is what mystifies us, and what we try to (re)cover using more subtle, clever artistry.

Man, as a living organism, an ordering, is attracted by and only interested in ordering - in patterns, and in symmetry.
As a product of ordering he lives within a universe of ordering - a lingering afterglow of that near-absolute singularity he has called "God", and the "prime mover", and is now calling the "Big Bang".
As self-organizing emergent unity he can only exist in a world that makes sense to him, using the processes (methods) that expose him to what is most like him.
The world makes sense within the translations of reality reflecting his own essence.

But, as chaos increases, and ordering slowly declines, man finds himself a stranger in a strange world.
Things have not progressed enough to where the world becomes nonsensical, but, already, his increasing awareness has exposed him to subtle signs of a coming counter-intuitive reality.
As chaos is approached the randomness will make comprehension impossible, or, should I say, highly improbable.
If man's organic order survives long enough, man may find himself in a world that makes no sense to him - a hellish world.  
This is the coming of the Dark Age, out of which a new beginning will emerge.

But chaos has been with us since the dawn of time...it is the nil, in the one, which explodes into time-space possibilities, gradually expanding, growing.
It has been symbolized as the Satanic principle, the "evil" in the "goodness," both benefactor, because without it man and consciousnesses would be impossible, and antagonist, pulling apart what it has made possible, the moment it is birthed.

And this temporally measured effect is what man feels resentiment towards, according to Nietzsche...setting-up the "yay saying" of the coming "overman", who (re)cognizes the necessity of this process of need/suffering, and inevitable demise, embracing it as indispensable, as unavoidable, as his very nature.  
And here is where the truly healthy man finds his spirituality.
Not to cower before and surrender to, but to worship as necessary, as both benefactor and antagonist.
The gods, for this healthier, more child-like, man were representations of the counter-intuitive.
Associated with Jaynes' "bicameral mind", as a byproduct of man's emerging self-consciousness, relating to consciousness as a alien in his own body - producing this mind/body dichotomy still burdening modern man with its schizophrenic cries for help.
We now see it on the periphery of human scientific insight, when man is confronted with a mystifying world that contradicts this "middle world" as Dawkins called it, of human sensuality.
Human artifices, human tools, such as words and numbers, fall apart before this underlying, increasing randomness... this coming chaos.
Man is terrified of it, wanting to discover some pattern in it to save himself from what he cannot fully fathom.  
"Complex" he calls it, insinuating hidden, subtle, patterns, where he might find salvation; something intuitive, rational, to manipulate, to know and then to dominate.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:15 am

Were Athenians "sheltered"?
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:59 am

phoneutria wrote:
Were Athenians "sheltered"?

If you, actually, read my post [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], the one you are commenting on, or the book I am quoting, you will find the answer.
If not, or you choose to skim and mind-fart....good for ya, dear.
You think it matters to me?

I know your need to remain as you are, or to justify your life choices, is so great that you've began using cynicism and trying to find a loop-hole in everything that reduced your pleasure quotient, but these trite little comments, pretending to have uncovered a weakness, are more annoying than anything else.

I'll give you two hints, for the umpteenth time....because I'm nice and you seem to be too thick to get it the first ten times:

Degreeeeeeeees...

&

Value judgments are comparisons.

Compared to the Spartans, yes...and so the upper-classes became decadent.
Compared to you, dear, no.
Your decadence and pride in it, remains historically unmatched.


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