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 ATHENS contra Jerusalem

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:51 am

It doesn't matter what I read, it matters what others will read after seeing my post.
Take it as an offense if you wish to. Doesn't matter to me. Just doing my job Wink
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:20 pm

I did not intend to derail this thread and turn it into another one of your pointless attempts at ego validation.
Will no longer respond to posts of that nature.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:35 pm

phoneutria wrote:
I did not intend to derail this thread and turn it into another one of your pointless attempts at ego validation.
Will no longer respond to posts of that nature.

Let's connect it to this thread topic..
Your emotional (re)action is based on my performances on-line.

Now, why would I come on-line to express myself exactly as I would off-line?
If I was going to swallow my pride, repeat the common sentiments, tell the other what he or she wants to hear, then why come on-line at all?
I would be like the morons who only want to stand-out in their uniformity, telling the little folk what they wish were true.

I come here to speak my mind...as openly and honestly as I can.

Trust me, sweetie, if you ever came across me in "real life" you would think I am the kindness, calmest, most considerate, person ever.
I would be adjusting myself to you so much you would think I agreed with you no so many things.
It would be all you, your husband your kid's genius, how much money you make, how fabulous you cook...and so on.

You would think me dull....because few like seeing themselves in others.
Nice, but nothing interesting.

Then, for my amusement, I would slip into the conversation something a bit controversial to gauge your reactions to it...on a good day.
On a bad day I would be looking for excuses to return to my solitude, away from social platitudes.

You would have no clue what I really thought.
If you are as intuitive as you say you are then you would feel something...and explain it as a weirdness about me.  

Look how much material I've given you to exploit with trite insults and emotional responses.
See how nice I am?

Even Athens had to give into the masses, and conceded to Democracy its Timocracy.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:52 pm

Satyr wrote:
Backwards thinknig of nihilism...the Top<>Down psychology. Begin with a given and work backwards; justify it after you've assumed its "truth".

Numbers are mystical, and not human constructs....reflections of a past order which is tending towards chaos.
Man as follower, slave, desperate to find its master's home, to give himself to Him.
the comfort of knowing, of having faith, that He is out there waiting....helping the slave endure his trials and the dark wilderness he traverses; the pains of struggling to find the secret paths.

Plato used to reinterpret Hellenism as a precursor to Jewish mysticism and Christian debauchery.
Even Heraclitus and his fire is absorbed into the process of negation - a thing.


One thing that strikes me about Satyr is......

How can a Greek get Plato so wrong???  Despite accusations about Plato, you do realize that Satyr and Plato critiqued the same phenomenon of civil decline and social degeneracy?  For example, Plato's famous allegory of the cave is the exact same today in the form of the popular movie "The Matrix".  Plato observed that civilization created a type of autism (stemming from the concept 'Idiocy' in which citizens would stay dwelling in their homes/caves, and never leave).  That was the allegory of the cave!  That was the whole point!

How, the fuck, can Satyr, supposedly a Greek as well, miss the whole point???

Plato observed and critiqued the exact same phenomenon thousands of years ago, that merely repeats today.  In the allegory of the cave, the consequence of civilization creates the environment of false security, in which people live their entire lives (enslaved) under the "magic" of illusions and shadows cast by reflections of light upon the walls of the cave.  This is an allegory for modern day television, movie, cinema, propaganda, and indoctrination (edumacation).  Dumbing down of society.

I still can't believe that you have read Plato so wrongly and falsely.  What a misstep and blunder.....

In Plato's "Theory of Forms" and the "realer world", he was specifically referencing to a life "outside Athens", outside civilization.  Since he was referring to some of the first forms and roots of modern civilization as well.

He essentially gave a synopsis for modernity, over 2000 years ago, that still rings true and unchanged today.

What an error on behalf of Satyr............
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:05 pm

Neon wrote:
Satyr wrote:
Backwards thinknig of nihilism...the Top<>Down psychology. Begin with a given and work backwards; justify it after you've assumed its "truth".

Numbers are mystical, and not human constructs....reflections of a past order which is tending towards chaos.
Man as follower, slave, desperate to find its master's home, to give himself to Him.
the comfort of knowing, of having faith, that He is out there waiting....helping the slave endure his trials and the dark wilderness he traverses; the pains of struggling to find the secret paths.

Plato used to reinterpret Hellenism as a precursor to Jewish mysticism and Christian debauchery.
Even Heraclitus and his fire is absorbed into the process of negation - a thing.


One thing that strikes me about Satyr is......

How can a Greek get Plato so wrong???  Despite accusations about Plato, you do realize that Satyr and Plato critiqued the same phenomenon of civil decline and social degeneracy?  For example, Plato's famous allegory of the cave is the exact same today in the form of the popular movie "The Matrix".  Plato observed that civilization created a type of autism (stemming from the concept 'Idiocy' in which citizens would stay dwelling in their homes/caves, and never leave).  That was the allegory of the cave!  That was the whole point!

How, the fuck, can Satyr, supposedly a Greek as well, miss the whole point???

Plato observed and critiqued the exact same phenomenon thousands of years ago, that merely repeats today.  In the allegory of the cave, the consequence of civilization creates the environment of false security, in which people live their entire lives (enslaved) under the "magic" of illusions and shadows cast by reflections of light upon the walls of the cave.  This is an allegory for modern day television, movie, cinema, propaganda, and indoctrination (edumacation).  Dumbing down of society.

I still can't believe that you have read Plato so wrongly and falsely.  What a misstep and blunder.....

In Plato's "Theory of Forms" and the "realer world", he was specifically referencing to a life "outside Athens", outside civilization.  Since he was referring to some of the first forms and roots of modern civilization as well.

He essentially gave a synopsis for modernity, over 2000 years ago, that still rings true and unchanged today.

What an error on behalf of Satyr............


That's just precious coming from a God believer who stood on the threshold of the cave to simply go back in...

Some like Satyr would argue, he never even knew he was in a cave like all narcissists,, but taking that approach would spoil all the humour for me that you so abundantly provide... you are the irony of ironies.


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:27 pm

Child,
Since when do I believe in god???

This is news to me, please, go on and tell me more about what/who I believe in.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:30 pm

Neon wrote:
Child,
Since when do I believe in god???

This is news to me, please, go on and tell me more about what/who I believe in.

You are making news now, that you don't...

What do you believe in... now? What will it be... tomorrow?

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:42 pm

p.s. Neon: I think you may have misunderstood Satyr. He was saying exoteric Platonism was ready for usurpation by Christianity...,,, just as Satyricisms are easily usurped by sub-average minds to make ridiculous ideologies of them,, like you, for example, did/are doing with his Feminization... keeping it down at the gross level... and passing it off to simple minds, exactly like those Xts.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:19 pm

Check this out...

Satyr wrote:
Plato used to reinterpret Hellenism as a precursor to Jewish mysticism and Christian debauchery.
Even Heraclitus and his fire is absorbed into the process of negation - a thing.

The autistic boy is begging for clarifications, to later repeat as if he came up with them on his own.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:43 pm

Here's the problem with anything one writes which becomes influential or inspiring, or affects someone in some way.
It's the problem with being a famous author, or songwriter, or any famous and infamous character that has attained some level of notoriety.
The problem is that everyone who reads the words immediately projects his own anxieties and the methods he uses to cope with the upon the work, and as an extension (s)he assumes that the artist, author is like him, addressing him and his situation personally.

Nietzsche is the most famous modern example of this emotionally charged projection, but the same applies to everyone who exerts some form of influence, large or small.
Every psychopath takes the words and moulds them to fit into his/her own psychopathy...and when the author, if he is alive and accessible, fails to meet this projection anger ensues.

Famous actresses have this problem with stalkers.
The projecting weakling begins to believe in the persona he experiences on screen, and when he meets the actress and she fails to be that persona for him, he becomes angry and he obsesses with her.
The sick, needy, psyche believes the actress is talking to him when acting no the screen, just as the needy reader assumes the writer is talking to his soul, expressing what is inside of himself.

An inability to discern fact from fiction or to accurately understand what is being expressed is the issue.
The reader cannot fully grasp the writer's meanings and so he projects there meanings he can understands, triggered by words he's associated with these meanings.
It's a method con-artists exploit and also seducers, or anyone selling an image, an idea, catering to the intended victim.

When the misunderstanding is not intentional but entirely the reader's fault, then the reader still accuses the source of a motive, because he cannot take responsibility, or accept the possibility that he did not understand or he cannot understand.
Instead of blaming himself he blames the source of his shame, as if it was intentional.

The same delusion that made him believe the other was addressing him now becomes a belief that the other was out to get him, to trick him, to exploit him.
These types are usually insecure, exhibiting some form of outward compensating arrogance, that may turn into a defensive narcissism.
He is now both the centre of attention or he is the victim.
No matter what he is not ignored.
Suffering from deep seated loneliness issues and an inability to make social, emotional, connections, he, or she, may become obsessed with anyone who paid some attention to him/her, or of nobody does he may become obsessed with a famous figure, as if they were addressing him as they spoke on screen, alleviating his isolation and invisibility...the sense that he is unseen.
The condition may have something to do with a childhood experience with the parent.
The child feeling neglected, unseen, uncared for, by the parent will become obsessed with a figure of the same sex, which now becomes a surrogate representation of the absent, or indifferent, parent.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:56 pm

Bullshit, you dolt,

I've watched you make the same mistake for years, calling Plato an idealist and misinterpreting the theory of forms.

This isn't the first time I correct your errors and faults, won't be the last either. You should just learn to accept this as normal, as my interpretations and values exceed your own.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:59 pm

Lyssa wrote:
You are making news now, that you don't...

What do you believe in... now? What will it be... tomorrow?
Child,
You and your girlfriend Satyr cannot understand he who stands above you.
You could never hope to try to learn how I think or why.

I can see inside your mind, quite easily, but you cannot see into mine. That is due to the power of my curiosity. To know is to discover.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:14 pm

Ouch...that one must-of hurt.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:20 pm

Neon wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
You are making news now, that you don't...

What do you believe in... now? What will it be... tomorrow?
Child,
You and your girlfriend Satyr cannot understand he who stands above you.
You could never hope to try to learn how I think or why.

I can see inside your mind, quite easily, but you cannot see into mine.  That is due to the power of my curiosity.  To know is to discover.

Do you necessarily have to put us through these motions and promise of great powers, or are you going to get to the porn part yet... and where your Curiosity takes you? You have a future in creative writing,, its what I can see into you.
People say, don't quit your job,,, but you should, belieber.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:21 pm

Did it?????

Have you even read Plato? It should have been apparent the first time that he separated "reality" and ideals apart from civilization and the world outside the cave.

I kept this correction to myself for years, because it humored me when you called Plato an idealist, LOL! Moron.

Go eat poop.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:23 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Do you necessarily have to put us through these motions and promise of great powers, or are you going to get to the porn part yet... and where your Curiosity takes you? You have a future in creative writing,, its what I can see into you.
People say, don't quit your job,,, but you should, belieber.
Oh so you enjoy my pornographic prose do you?

I knew that you did. And how so readily you remember. Do you read my old messages often, for a refresher???
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:23 pm

Neon knew of a secret that he kept for years, LOLzz
I'm sure even Plato didn't know himself as much as Neon did.

But its fair game. I think Neon is all set for Jupiter.

ta ta

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:24 pm

I think she masturbates to them like they did in Athens.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:24 pm

UR DUM!!!

BOTH OF U!!!
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:25 pm

Æon wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Do you necessarily have to put us through these motions and promise of great powers, or are you going to get to the porn part yet... and where your Curiosity takes you? You have a future in creative writing,, its what I can see into you.
People say, don't quit your job,,, but you should, belieber.

Oh so you enjoy my pornographic prose do you?

I do. You're my fav. pornstar...

Quote :
I knew that you did.  And how so readily you remember.  Do you read my old messages often, for a refresher???

Yes, I make the best of you, esp. when you give it to me for free.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:25 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Neon knew of a secret that he kept for years, LOLzz
I'm sure even Plato didn't know himself as much as Neon did.

But its fair game. I think Neon is all set for Jupiter.

ta ta

He's in your head now....do not deny it.
You are his.

He knows you inside out.
In about a day, or so, you'll be brushing-up against his crotch.

He's that good.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:27 pm

That's all I came to say. It ought to be awhile longer until I return and correct Satyr again, as she needs frequently.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:29 pm

"Some men are born sodomites, some achieve sodomy, and some have sodomy thrust upon them…" — The Scented Garden of Abdullah the Satirist of Shiraz

Now, now,, lets not Victimize poor Neon,, a bit much and he'll cry he was raped..

When he comes, is a good time to go for me...

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:31 pm

He came to scavenge...and saw two names next to each other.
It's all he saw.
Then he went blank.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:41 pm

Okay, you got me, I cannot resist two complete MORONS who need my wisdom to lead them.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:42 pm

I'll make a post about the difference between reality and ideals.

Satyr needs too much correction for me to follow through with. But I can make a few just for now.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:58 pm

I am counting on it.
Consider this the agora in Athens and you a great, but yet unknown genius.

Show them that mind you've shown me so many times before.
Show us that genius.
Weave in some sexual stuff, as you always do.

My God, who will ever return here, after that?

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:09 am

Read this excerpt from Camus' book Christian Metaphysics and Neoplatonism, which I highly recommend, keeping in mind what word refers to, and how it compares to number.

Camus, Albert wrote:
a) The Word: “[A soul of this kind (that is, a pure soul) will be where substance and reality and the divine are]—that is in god—there it will be with them and in him.”

But Saint Augustine says:
“The ideas are certain original and principle forms of things, i.e., reasons, fixed and unchangeable, which are not themselves formed and, being thus eternal and existing always in the same state, are contained in the Divine Intelligence.”

He understands God through the heart, but also through intelligence. We see clearly that his conception is thus entirely philosophical, because the intelligible world that we marvel at reveals to us its secret. Our spirit, before the world, performs a double movement.
Before the variety of beings produced by the intelligible, it distinguishes the idea that it encompasses, but its second effort synthesizes these ideas into a single reality that expresses them thus:
“Then not only are they ideas, but they are themselves true because they are eternal and
because they remain ever the same and unchangeable.”

“This reality,” which Saint Augustine understands in this way as pure intelligence and the highest truth, “is God.”

It is a Plotinian conception.
What is at work here is the principle of participation. The ideas participate in everything divine. They are in it, and yet it is something more than them. We will reveal this relation better still through a vigorous text of de Trinitate:

“So because there is but one Word of God, through which all things were made(Jn. 1:1–6), which is unchanging truth, in which all things are primordially and unchangingly together, not only things that are in the whole of this creation, but things that have been and will be; but there is not a question of ‘have been’ and ‘will be,’ there they simply are; and all things there are life and all are one, and indeed there is there but one ‘one’ and one life.”

The Plotinian method shows through here.
But the moment Saint Augustine incorporates this doctrine of the Word Intelligence into the theory of the Trinity, things change their meanings. Plotinus actually arranges his hypostases in a hierarchy and affirms the distance that separates the One from Intelligence. Saint Augustine, in
his account, started from God, not as the source of the other two essences, but as the only nature of the Trinity.
“The one God is, of course, the Trinity, and as there is one God, so there is one creator.”

The three persons of the Trinity are therefore identical. From this there follow three fundamental consequences: the three persons have only one will and one operation. “They are supremely one without any difference of natures or of wills.”

“It is therefore not the Word alone that has appeared on earth but the entire Trinity.” “In the Incarnation of the Son it is the whole Trinity that is united to the human body.”

Each of the three persons is equal to the entire Trinity and to God himself, who contains the other two persons: “Therefore the Father alone or the Son alone or the Holy Spirit alone is as great as the Father and Son and Holy Spirit.”

This theory of the Trinity attempts therefore to reconcile the equality and distinction of the Persons. This is a problem that already goes beyond Plotinianism but which makes use
of its method. Moreover, Augustine connects his Christology to this doctrine of the Trinity, and it is thus that the Word is separated from Neoplatonic Intelligence.


b) The Flesh: The Word has already been made flesh, its body is real, earthly and born of a woman.

This union of body and word is indestructible. Man and Christ are one, and this is the whole Christian mystery: “The fact that the Word became flesh does not imply that the Word withdrew and was destroyed on being clothed with flesh, but rather that flesh, to avoid destruction, drew near to the Word . . . The same One who is Man is God, and the same one who is God is Man, not by a confusion of nature but by unity of person.”

What one must note here is that the
Word in Saint Augustine is increasingly Plotinian, and it is increasingly separated from Neoplatonism to the extent that the union of this Word and this flesh becomes more miraculous.
But everything is justified by one fact: Jesus’ incarnation. Though the idea is contradictory, at least the fact is obvious. And moreover, considering the grandeur of the task, the grandeur of the miracle is understandable.

Once you are finished consider the relation of Jerusalem, and Athens, as in Judeo-Christian, Islam, expressing nihilism, translated into Marxism, Humanism, comparing to Indo-European Paganism, and the spirit of the European man.  

Now explore the crap you read on-line, Spinoza, and Value Ontology, or any other form, using a different word, title to sell you the same comforting crap.


Camus concludes his book this way...


Camus, Albert wrote:
We have bound ourselves to the solution of two problems: the one, extremely vast, touching the relations between Christianity and
Hellenism, the other, itself implicit in the former. The second problem deals with the role of Neoplatonism in the evolution of Christian thought. The material was too vast to have hoped to provide definitive responses. But we have examined, on the one hand, three stages in the evolution of Christian thought, and on the other hand, the culmination of the work of Greek thought in Neoplatonism. A simple comparison has furnished us with a few conclusions.
Christianity has borrowed from Greek thought its material and from Neoplatonism a method. It has maintained intact its profound truth by treating all difficulties on the level of the Incarnation. And if Christianity did not exactly originate this disconcerting way of posing problems, without a doubt Greece had absorbed it. Herein Greece had seen other problems. This, at least, remains precise, but how many other difficulties remain: the role played by Philo in the formation of Alexandrian
metaphysics, the contribution of Origen and Clement of Alexandria to dogmatic Christianity, and the numerous influences we have evaluated:
Kabbala, Avesta, Indian philosophies, or Egyptian Theurgy.
But the exposition suffices. Let us hold ourselves to a few observations. Many speak of the hellenization of early Christianity. And as far as morality is concerned, the claim is no doubt true.

But Christian morality is not the object of education; it is an inner asceticism that amounts to accepting faith. On the contrary, according to our work, one must speak rather of the christianization of a decadent Hellenism. And here the words have a historical and even a geographical meaning.
But finally, is it possible, at the end of this study, to determine what constitutes the novelty of Christianity? Are there even notions that are properly Christian? The question is certainly topical. In fact, it is a particular paradox of the human spirit to grasp the facts and to be unable to comprehend the synthesis: for example, an epistemological paradox of a science, certain in its facts, but in that case insufficient, or satisfactory in its theories, but thus uncertain; or a psychological paradox of a self, perceptible in its parts, but inaccessible in its profound unity. In this regard, history does not deliver us from our anxieties, and to return to the profound novelty of the Gospel seems like an impossible task. We see well beneath these influences the syncretism from which Christian thought is born. But we are also aware that, were it dismantled entirely into foreign elements, we would still recognize it as original because of a more subdued resonance than the world has yet heard.
And if we reflect on the principle themes of Christianity—Incarnation,
Philosophy according to history, the misery and sorrow of the human
condition—we recognize that what matters here is the substitution of a
“Christian man” for a “Greek man.” This difference, which we manage to define poorly in the doctrines, we experience by comparing Saint Jerome of the desert to those stricken with temptation and the young who listened to Socrates.

Because if, moreover, we believe Nietzsche, and if we agree that the Greece of darkness that we mentioned at the outset of this
work, the pessimistic Greece, deaf and tragic, was the mark of a strong civilization, it is necessary to admit that Christianity in this regard is a rebirth in relation to Socraticism and its serenity.

“Men,” says Pascal, “being unable to cure death, are wise not to think about it.”

The whole effort of Christianity is to oppose itself to this slowness of heart. From this is defined the Christian man and, at the same time, a civilization. Ch.
Guignebert in his Christianisme antique speaks of Christian thought as a religion “of fanatics, the hopeless, and the beggars.”

The statement is true, but not as the author would like it.
Be that as it may, at the time of Saint Augustine’s death, Christianity was formed into a philosophy. It is now sufficiently armed to resist the tempest in which all will founder. During the long years, it remains the only common hope and the only effective shield against the calamity of the Western world. Christian thought had conquered through its universality.

And to the triad of Father/Son/Holy spirit we add the Judaism/Christianity/Islam triad.

The language changes but the word/number remains the core of nihilistic denouncement of existence.
It professes love as it negates and it come with smiles and grand gestures to bury it in its geometric mausoleums.

Transcendence/Immanence. sandwiching reality, squeezing the life out of it...both proposed, in the west, by which culture?

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:58 pm

Order = symmetry, harmony, a repeating, consistent pattern, tending towards the theoretical absolute which would be static, perfect, complete.
Being = the theoretical projection of this never attained absolute state.
It is theoretical, noetic, where the mind takes the given, the phenomenon which has no absolutes and imagines an inversion = nihilism.
Ergo Being a Nihilistic construct when taken literally rather than as a metaphor, a direction finder.

Chaos = two forms in relation to man as complexity where man can perceive no pattern, and in relation to order, where randomness disintegrates consistency, repetition and predictability, tending toward the absolute random where no pattern, including consciousness and life, would be possible science life depends on repeating predictable consistency and consciousness is a tool of life, foraging and constructing order as part of its self-maintenance.

Near absolute is part of the Yin/Yang metaphor, and it is implied in the Big Bang, where completion was never achieved, no singularity attained, thusly resulting in the explosion/expansion we call Big Bang, and wrongly associate with a beginning.

This towards chaos is what the organism, being a struggle against this, feels, interprets as need/suffering...the ephemeral attainment of equilibrium in this tide, being the sensation of pleasure, satiation.
Growth being the slight increase in resistance to this entropy, which accompanies pleasure, due to the aggregate energies overflowing, in excess of what the organism requires to self-maintain against chaos.

Life is only possible at a alter stage of entropy, when expansion of time/space makes possibility increasingly likely to produce the probability of an ordering, in (re)action to chaos.
Life = self-ordering, meaning self-organizing - Becoming.

Life, and the consciousness/awareness of otherness, and then of its own condition, are (re)actions to this increasing chaos....and as chaos increases the emergence of any order that would become alive decreases in probability.

The relationship of life towards existence is both as an agon, a struggle in antithesis to it, and as an agreement, as the recognition of this state as necessary for life to emerge, and then to perish.
Genetics, are a method, a strategy, for compensating for organic limitations....ergo the genes are passed on, often at the cost/price, of the organism that passes them on.

Awareness of this is detrimental to the process, making sophisticated consciousness a disadvantage to the organism - an excess which becomes a negative - this is how Nihilism emerges as a human (re)action to the human condition.

How does the cycle of existence continue if the cosmos we inhabit is doomed to perish in a towards chaos, eventually reaching a state where no probability, no order is sufficient to produce life and consciousnesses?
As chaos increases (expansion of time/space) which is the same as saying that possibility tends toward the infinite, and as probability decreases inhibiting possibilities, the possibility of a new near-absolute, emergent singularity, increases exponentially...possibility becoming uniformly greater means that all possibilities become increasingly likely...as there are no probabilities, no order, to restrict them...
This means that the possibility of a new Big Bang producing a new cycle tends towards the increasingly possible.

A side-matter:
Man's interventions upon natural processes represents an intervention that contributes to chaos.
his (inter)actions destroy natural patterns, sop as to integrate them ni his tiny artificial reality, his man-made world, adding to the chaos in a slight but predictable way.
This is another example of human interventions producing pollution....in this case as cosmic chaos.
This is particularly so when man's interventions intervene in antithesis to natural processes...to correct, heal, manipulate them in accordance to human needs.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:30 pm

In the on-going EU Greek drama, we find the same character in a dance that began back in Rome, over two-thousand years ago.
Ironically, Greece is in the middle of it, but this time playing the role of thorn in the Pax Europa plan - a pawn manipulated by the IMF and its American master.
The weakest link, having entered using a Trojan horse is now threatening to suicide the entire endeavour.

The Americans want the EU to remain an economic union, or to be dismantled starting with the Greek piece.
The Germans and French, hiding a Napoleon/Hitler dream, wish to create a United States of Europe, but after centuries of Semitic infection what is left in Europe to save, or to love?
What can be salvaged, if it isn't too late?

Would it not be the Greeks, who never had their Renaissance, and who now associate Hellenism, their own Modern version, with Christianity, and who so easily take to the secular form of the same victim psychology, gravitating towards Marxism, to bring down what had been built upon their inheritance?

Now the tragedy becomes a comedy.

And as the cheers from the Semites echo, we remember the historical state of affairs, and its internal annihilation - hoards of Africans ready to take over the position of Caesar, like the Huns once did in Rome.
But then there was a common ground in Aryan paganism...what of now, with the Abrahamic scourge at the gates?

Is Europe to be brown?

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:18 pm

Nietzsche was to Nazism what Marx was to Communism and Jesus was to Christianity, which would make Hitler a Lenin, or Saul.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:36 pm

Marx, Jesus, Socrates, Nietzsche, all icons of their respective dogmas: Communism, Christianity, Democracy, Nazism.
Each with their own prophets: Lenin, Saul, Plato, Hitler.
Each with their own hyperbolic corruptions.
Dogmas are built on the misunderstanding of great authors, great intellects.
The masses need this corruption, to simplify and bring down to their level what is incomprehensible to them – they must be directed using this simplified application.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:22 pm

The ancient-Greeks assimilated the knowledge from tribes they came in contact with around the Mediterranean.
They were foragers of meme, each new idea(l) would be consumed, digested (broken down to its parts), and selectively assimilated into their body politic, (the remainder defecated away).
Each new tribe invigorated the Hellenic core, because it remained intact, strong, and flexible.
This accounts for the glory of Hellas: a strong constitution, and a formidable digestive system – so, formidable, in fact, that when the Romans conquered them militarily the Greeks because to feed on the weaker Roman culture internally, until all that remained was a shell, whose internal workings had been taken over by a foreign culture.

Contact with the Jews was an entirely different deal.
The rotting flesh of the dis-eased Jews, infected the Greeks when they ingested it.
What came out was Christianity: diarrhea that soiled the world.
The west has been in a fevered state, approaching death, ever since.



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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:08 pm

Satyr wrote:
The ancient-Greeks assimilated the knowledge from tribes they came in contact with around the Mediterranean.
They were foragers of meme, each new idea(l) would be consumed, digested (broken down to its parts), and selectively assimilated into their body politic, (the remainder defecated away).
Each new tribe invigorated the Hellenic core, because it remained intact, strong, and flexible.
This accounts for the glory of Hellas: a strong constitution, and a formidable digestive system – so, formidable, in fact, that when the Romans conquered them militarily the Greeks because to feed on the weaker Roman culture internally, until all that remained was a shell, whose internal workings had been taken over by a foreign culture.

Contact with the Jews was an entirely different deal.
The rotting flesh of the dis-eased Jews, infected the Greeks when they ingested it.
What came out was Christianity: diarrhea that soiled the world.
The west has been in a fevered state, approaching death, ever since.



With the Romans they were left with a head in their helmets and a body in their armor. That is, the formative shell had individualized content or substance capable of both forming and being formed. It wasn't as annihilated than it was assimilated.
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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:46 am

Earthly Pagan & Wandering Jew
Our organic hierarchies are solidified during the first years of our existence.
Born with a sense of the solidity of earth, with hearth and home a firm presence, produces a mind not seeking for anything specific, but explores, without expectation, fitting what he finds into what he is certain of.
The explorer craves external liquidity to contrast with his internal solid.
Born with no solidity, wandering from one area to the next, feeling not at home, unwelcomed everywhere, lost in a desert amidst luscious jungle entanglements, the external becomes, for him, a source of anxiety and infinite possibility. This produces a seeker who may not seek anything specific, because he has only lack, in himself, an internal restlessness that keeps him moving forward, onward, but never loses a general feeling of what it ought to be, this ambiguity he seeks, to be satisfying to one like him; inverting his internal feeling and casting it as an idea(l) he cannot stop looking for, the world’s fluidity contrasting to his idea(l)’s concreteness. God, for him, is everything he is not, and his restless spirit, anxious and uncertain, desires the certain, the solid, the earth-like.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:20 am

Conflict between genetic experience and memetic necessity as a Nihilistic countering is what this contradiction between Athens and Jerusalem, word and deed, real and ideal is about.
Knowledge, accumulated natural data, passed on as genetic code, is contradicted by the nihilistic word-based meme, by a nurtured knowledge.
The schisms is inevitable for the mind to remain sane.

Nature, as sum of all past, is immutable and unknown, mysterious.
The voyage inwards is the exploration of self, as the manifestation of all that has made it possible.
Movement, in relation to other patterns, and to randomness, flows out if this internal exploration, thrown forth as destination, or as illusion to be rejected, returning to the internal where nothing can challenge it; where the pain of having your ideals challenged by an indifferent reality, is avoided.
This conflict is between mind and body - the noumenon/phenomenon.
The body can be contradicted by the mind, calling this control, and the mind can be contradicted by body calling this passion.
When mind and body are in harmony there is no contradiction - harmony, balance, is preserved, in a world of chaos.

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:01 am

Teaching a mind the Bottom<>Up method of reasoning, exploring, thinking, begins by reinforcing its confidence in its own senses.
The senses it uses to engage world.

It begins from there, and goes outward, and inward, into exoteric/esoteric upwardness.

It begins with a solid base, a foundation and build upward, and deeper down.

It does not begin with a idea(l), a noumenon, existing out there, in there, as some vague feeling, usually connecting to an emotion a deep psychological sensation, nor does it begin with the solution in hand and then work backwards trying to justify it, inevitably relying on mysticism to do so.
It begins with the mystery and clarifies it...the covered it reveals, the buried it recalls that which existed in the real, within the same world - past/nature being references to the world.

Beginning with the proper word in the proper context, the right symbol in the right reference, prevents Tower of Babel from being built.

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A tower all feel free to roaming, up and down, left and right, imprisoned in a confusing maze, unable to make sense of anything - wandering, lost, creating empires in their minds.

With no connection to earth, up there in the skies, who is to prevent anyone form using any word in whatever way it can to exploit human ignorance, and fear, and stupidity?
An artist who draws abstractions, surreal projections of personal psychology, must first begin by exhibiting his talent to represent reality as it is....
If not, an elephant can slap colour on a canvas, an ape drip it like urine, a moron can draw a line across it, and sell it to pretentious, weaklings as high art.

The pretentious weakling will project anything hiding in his psyche, believing it was intentional placed there by the other who sees into his soul.
All the talentless artists, the charlatan, must do is agree, go along with the pretentious fool's projections, listen and nod, smile, wanting to sell the piece at a high price.
He must allude to deeper meaning, not present.


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:06 pm

In early, primitive days, man felt the dynamism of existence as a subtle force upon his being.
With no understanding to draw from he used what he did understand, and the patterns of (inter)activity, fluctuating all around him, calling them spirits.
Every part of what he could perceive vibrated, and had energy.
He saw it, smelled, it felt it, heard it, and with no way to comprehend what animated it he projected there his own spirit, or those of his dead ancestors, and anthropomorphized (inter)activity, converting it from strange to intimate, wanting to gain some control over it, to befriend what was mysterious and terrifying.
In time he began representing it, first as direct depictions of creatures he harvested and relied upon to survive, having first given them a sonar symbol to communicate with his own kind, and to facilitate the harvesting/hunt.
After a while he began to symbolize, what he felt, what he intuited, with lines, expressing the affect he felt – lines representing certain dynamics he saw repeated in his environment.

I believe that language emerged out of this attempt to represent the effect of existence upon the human organism – letters/numbers are not given a particular shape by accident.
The effect, and also the shape the throat, larynx, mouth took when forming the sound given to the particular phenomena, by different peoples, living in different environments, is what evolved into alphabets and numerical systems.
Some number systems reflected mathematical abstraction, with solid lines, parallels, or crossing one another, reflecting how numbers represent abstractions, applicable to all phenomena, and meaninglessness outside human minds {Roman numerals}, whereas the Greeks simply used letters from their alphabet and did not devise a separate symbolization system from the one they used to represent sound, reflecting their understanding that both words and numbers are languages, artistic representations of abstractions.
But, in the west, we adopted the Arabian system with more instinctive symbols.

The more insensitive, dull members of a tribe could not comprehend the relationship of the shapes to what they felt, to what they experienced.
They could not relate to what more sensitive intelligent minds told them.
They understood the symbols literally, had to understand them as magical, as mysterious.

This follows the same method traditions are established.
Practices, such as circumcision, or dietary restrictions, have a pragmatic utility, made spiritual, a law from god, to become a rule among the dull and the simpleminded that did not need to understand the reasoning behind them.
Female circumcision also a socially useful practice, and not simply human cruelty and misogyny.
Every tradition that has been passed on has its roots in practical applications, evolved during different environmental conditions, and passed on as ritualized – practised by minds that do not question, nor deny, but accept and repeat.
Some traditions are the result of an attempt to preserve one's social status by keeping the reason secret.
The shaman, for example, did not reveal to the ones he "healed", or attempted to heal, his understanding of botany, and human disease symptoms; he did not expose the signs he discovered associated with particular weather events.
He kept his art, his knowledge, a secret, by mystifying it.
This he kept as his shamanic privilege, his lore, passed on to his chosen student only, and not before he was near his end.
This knowledge had been passed on to him by a previous shaman, as an inheritance of hundreds of years of nature gazing, experiences in that particular ecosystem, or as perceived patterns in animal behaviour, in weather events, in landscape, in human behaviour.
When river (inter)acted with a particular kind of stone, a particular type of tree, a particular kind of soil, he had no language to express it other than by using spirits, and souls, and hidden forces.
These patterns he represented in the only way he could, using the only imagery, symbols he understood.
We Moderns, as more knowledgeable urban dwellers, living in Nihilistic cultures, detached from past/nature, to the point where we deny its relevance, wanting to be reborn and to be freed from it all, can now look upon these symbols, this Druidic lore, as something quaint and also powerful – a lost relationship that man had with nature, with his own past, with the environment.
His connection with past/nature was direct and indisputable, before man erected these physical and mental walls to keep it away, fabricating a mechanical artificiality that keeps him safe, and imprisoned.
 

My metaphysical positions concerning patterns and (inter)activity is the expression of this dynamism, this energy that is existence.
What is no dynamic does not exit, existence is dynamism, is activity, and Flux, the world, is this (inter)activity.  

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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:42 pm

If aristocracy is living on your own terms, in your own reality, with your own values, then every simpleton that has ever lived can lay claim to the title, and not fear being challenged by anyone.

Has aristocracy become a subjectivity delusion, requiring no justification other than "I say so"?
Is this what the Greeks meant by αριστον, αριστευειν?

Then, why not close yourself off from world, place yourself in your cocoon, and crown yourself champion, master, αρχων?
How easy it is to dominate with words, diving into the esoteric, when there is nothing external to challenge you, to correct you, to contradict you, to restrict the self-flattering delusions you desperately want to believe is so.

This is aristocracy for the nihilist age of inter-subjective solipsism, and sheltering: use words carelessly, as it pleases you, then pronounce yourself anything you like, choose any "positive" identity, any title, and indifferently close yourself off from critique.
Call yourself king, and wear a fool's crown.

What a seductive idea, what a positive prospect, how hedonistic, how appealing it is.
How easy it is to submit, to accept, to give-on and follow.

Remember what I said about charlatans, liars, and "positive nihilists"?
They come to you like christian priests, with soft eyes, delicate fingers, graceful movements, and bright welcoming smiles, speaking soothing, comforting words, so detached from reality that all can feel the relief in their calling.

How many popular cults became religions with messages of hard truth?
None.
Even the christian will tell you that his faith is not based on fear of death, or the flattery of believing he deserves eternal life. He will insist that his faith is hard, difficult, requiring sacrifices.

Is this not what he will say, killing his earthly spirit in the hope that he can live a "better" life in some noetic abstracted universe, hiding, underneath, behind, above, this disappointing, to them, one?
Is this not what he will tell you parroting words a priest put in his mind; words with no references outside their shared hive mind?


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PostSubject: Re: ATHENS contra Jerusalem Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:08 pm

Imagine an athlete competing in one of those old Olympic events, like the speed race.
He would come in last, and then pronounce himself an aristocrat, measuring himself by his own standards, crowning himself with the olive branch, as the audience, gape mouthed, wondered if he was insane, or just desperate.

Imagine a plain woman, declaring herself more beautiful than Helen of Troy, by her own aristocratic standards, in the Athenian agora.

Imagine a cripple, like Ephialtes, declaring himself the ideal of health, because of his aristocratic lineage, and spirit, among the Spartans.

Is Christianity an aristocratic religion because it has the power to define good, even if this definition is anti-life, anti-nature?
Does the power to brainwash a simpleton makes you an aristocrat?  

Does anyone today understand what is means to be an aristocrat?
Kratos {κρατος}= power, strength
Ariston {αριστον} = excellence

Not to have power over excellence, to define what is excellent, but to be empowered by the superior, to give way to the power of excellence, to acknowledge and honour the excellent, the exceptional, the higher.
Not to declare something excellent, just because one has power.
To submit to the power of excellence, and be inspired by it, be guided by it, to be honest about it.

An aristocrat is one who embodies excellence, because he's aspired to do so, and not the one who defines it, in a way that pleases him.

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