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PostSubject: What is Love? Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:44 pm

I posted the following entry in the " Observations and Thoughts" thread initially, but I decided to make a different thread for it, because a lot more can be added to it:

Most people don't know what love is, especially the one's who say, " I love you " all the time.
Most people conflate love and lust. This is a major reason why divorces are so common.

There are two occasions that stand out to me in regards to this issue:

I remember one time when I was at a beach party in Mexico, I met some girl my cousin introduced me to. We were all intoxicated on tequila and having a nice time. I went out into the water with the girl my cousin introduced me to. We flirted, conversations became closer and closer ( physically ) and when I finally grabbed her by the waist, pulled her in close, and kissed her, I remember the look in her eyes, right after we were done kissing; I will never forget that look; it was the look of someone madly in love. The eyes never lie...

The other occasion was when I was fornicating with my sister's friend. She wasn't the most emotionally stable person in the world, but not a basket-case. Anyways, during intercourse, she kept asking me " Can't you feel this? Can't you feel this?! Omg, I love you...I love you so much ".

You see, folks, this what happens when kids are indoctrinated on what love is by Walt Disney.

You get these easily enamored women, who fall head-over-heels in love with you, deluding themselves into thinking you are some prince charming ready to pull them on your horse and ride away into the sun-set and live happily ever after.

This is a very puerile romanticism.

Love-at-first-sight is childish and neurotic.

I'm not your fucking prince charming, I'm not your knight in shining armor. What you are experiencing is an amalgam of unrestrained lust and infantile, romantic delusions.

Real love is built up over time, with intimacy and endurance. Like Rome, real love is not built in one day.

With the way 'love' is treated these days by fluffy, childish romantics and loose whores, it's best to just sublimate your erotic energies into an ideal. For Nietzsche it was Eternity, and for myself, it shall be the ideal of " Know Thyself ".
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:34 am

There isn't a fundamental difference between your two anecdotes.
Where the fulcrum of eros is superlative, which could emerge at "first sight" then any superseding connection developement is secondary to its inscrutable instinct or psyche or nature, hich is not to be commensurated as primitive, but instead primordial or an unconscious drive made available the higher the organism and order of that organism, for it.

This interpolates with a common view held here and by bio-centrics: that all life and it extensions, such as love, are at the service of the irreducible instinct to self-preservation. However, as can be deduced and inferred from the effects of eros, inter alia, such a drive is also an after effect, since it or some other impetus or obession toward acheiving some object of perception or experience can result in consequentiality conflicting or obverse to life preservation. I'll exclude examples for now as it doesn't take much to follow this to a conclusive end, in all, because it can sometimes be at the cost or neglegence of the subject's life or furtherance thereof.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:23 pm

On the origin of love:

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Satyr wrote:
sex is about aggression and imposition upon the other's space - an act which females had to evolve specific physical and psychological traits to accommodate.

Interesting proposition...

it may explain why females, and perhaps to a lesser extent males, evolved the concept of love.

For females, it serves as a consolation. She finds solace in the fact that despite the male penetrating her, and intruding upon her being, at the end of the day he does it out of love, a benevolent motive.
This is why they need to be seduced, and persuaded that a man is not only interested in the ephemeral - her youth and beauty, because that is too contingent, prone to change, to base a relationship on.
Thus the division between mere lust and love - A man has to also be interested in what is, allegedly, concealed behind her physical looks - her mind, soul, or whatever, because it is more resistant to the passage of time.
If the female manages to convince herself, or is persuaded to by another, to believe in 'love' and projects something mystical, and magical, other-worldly as a foundation for it, she is then successfully assured of the stability and longevity of the relationship, and thus more accepting of the male's penetration.
This makes the concept of romantic, idealistic love a useful survival tool for females, as it increases the probability of them being open to reproduction.

For males, it is about the attraction and adoration of the opposite sex, valuing sexual reproduction and thus females so highly as to be willing to risk their lives and die for it. Such instinctual behavior is necessitated by evolution as a means of ensuring the perpetuation of one's genetic lineage.
The male's natural authority, read, general physical and intellectual superiority in relation to women suggests their responsibility towards them in a social context.
Violence committed by somebody more powerful (man) against somebody who is less so (a woman) is despicable because it is seen as an abuse of authority, and because of women's higher inherent sexual value, which means they are more protected by the society.
All of this contributes to why males, especially the more socially and memetically conditioned ones, ascribe to a similar romantic, idealistic concept of love, as women do.
1)They don't want to associate sex with something socially reprehensible as violence, which he otherwise dislikes,
2) nor is his genetic inclination to harm women, but to protect them.
This is why males will tend to want to disassociate themselves and their motives with any violent connotations of the act of sex, especially because such an admission is perceived as threatening by other females.

Yet the very reason sex and reproduction is fundamentally violent in nature, is because initially, it was never intended to be done with consent(or without it), only to be done, which sometimes, yes, meant WITHOUT the female's consent - rape. Evolution puts the survival of a species first, and their emotions second. This is why rape is possible, because even if a man's instinct to protect women because of promise of sexual reproduction is strong, his ultimate instinct, to reproduce, is stronger. The instinct to copulate with a female overrides the one to care for them and their emotions, and it happens because the latter is only the means for the former.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:01 pm

Love evolves from lust. Lust is a hormonally induced state of frenzy.
The female, and the male, is taken over by madness, Dionysian ecstasy, and accepts a foreign body inside her intimate becoming.
for the male the mania becomes a disregard for personal welfare, and a obsession with getting to the female, to release his accumulated virility; his excess, overflowing, energies.

Later she bonds with the offspring, smelling herself in them - they are but extensions of herself: imprinting.  
This last has to do with human selflessness, as the human mind identifies with an abstraction (idea, nation, an other) and now expands his self-consciousness to include this other - when he "sacrifices" himself for his nation, for example, he is letting go of a small part of what he identifies as "I".
The abstraction/idea promises eternity, because it continues on after each members death, and only truly dies when all members participating in its premises, infected by its principles
(memes), are gone.

The relationship of parent to child is the primal foundation of this behaviour.
It is how genetics evolve into memetics.

The inherent act of violence, which is heterosexual copulation, can only begin with this erotic frenzy, the madness of heat, and then proceeds to the imprinting, and confusion of self with other, of agape.

This eros/agape is what explains human sexual approaches to sexual intimacy.

But, of course, the modern will deny this and accuse it of some illness.
At the same time they cannot explain why a homosexual is socially acceptable when the pedophile is not, and why, if sex is so wonderful, so expanding, so unifying,so all-inclusive rape is such a terrible crime.
It is the sexual act's violence, its physical aggression, of the very act of penetration, and later the insemination process which requires the female's autoimmune system to be confused, calmed, tricked for long enough for the ovum to be penetrated, concluding the process.

The sexual sub-types male/female, of the reproductive type human, have evolved to meet the demands of their sexual role.
For the female this demand includes the approach and tolerance of a bigger, stronger other, into the centre of her very being, and let's forget, for the moment, the long period of gestation, and weening that follows.
To calm her automatic fight/flight reactions lust, the madness, and love, the soothing, numbing, effect of hormones evolved to make the act of intercourse possible.

So what is love?
Love is a chemical process which prepares the brain for association.
The similarities are accentuated, and the differences minimized, in consciousness. the similarities are used to create this sense of unity between I and other - the identifier of "us" which later becomes nationalism, ideology, tribal relationships of blood ties.
With no such blood ties, genetic connectors, in Modern multicultural, culture of no culture, environments (heterogeneous populations), the elimination of all divisions (race, nationality, culture) is part of the lowering of the common-denominator.
The mind is trained to focus on love itself - as hedonists focus on the sensation of pleasure itself - and this emotion becomes their idea(l), their object/objective.
And we get the christian God of love, or Love as God.
Paradise being the state of perpetual numbness, and loss of self in the other.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:26 pm

I think sexual intercourse is more complex for a female because she has multiple cares in her mind, all simultaneously competing over her Will's attentions.
Explaining her indecisiveness, flakiness, bizarre change of heart, her constant testing of the male, her intense and still shallow passions, what romantic fools call feminine mystique.


The first, and most powerful, is the drive towards self-preservation - the fight/flight mechanism.

The second, for females belonging to social species, it is her place within the unity of the herd, the tribe - her social status deciding her sexual potentials.

The third, is her instinctive desire for the superior - to be dominated by what is best; to not waste her energies/time on the inferior, to make herself a means towards the superior's ends.

The fourth is the competing drive to sample as many diverse genetic samples as possible, lending her multiple broods a fighting chance to survive within changing environmental conditions - this one explains Paternalism and its motives, and why females are easier adapted to various cultures and memes.
A female, in the past, was taken way as a prize, from a defeated tribe, or exchanged to reinforce ties between tribes, or families within tribes. without this drive to sample genetic material, this would have been problematic, and without her superficiality and inability to take any idea seriously, for any period of time exceeding seven years, this would have been impossible.

The only element missing is the exceptional female, with very discriminating needs.
Here my views on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] apply.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:41 am

" The eyes are the windows to the soul. "

Such a great aphorism.

You can discover a lot about somebody, just by looking into their eyes.

The modern dilemma of the beautiful and highly-educated woman of today:

To find a man, who not only shares in her love of knowledge; but to find one, who also has a bit of wolf in him.

It's not too difficult to find males, who are interested in the pursuit of excellence; but the problem is that almost all of these males are geeks, lacking masculine energy and physical attractiveness.

The modern woman finds herself in a conundrum:

To settle for a male, who shares in her love of wisdom; but lacks the masculine element,

or to settle for a more primal male partner, who has physical activeness and masculine energy; but lacks the intellectual element.

She decides to settle for none, to abstain from romantic relationships, until Mr. " Right " appears, irrespective of the odds of ever finding such an ideal man, who embodies the primal masculine and the intellectual Apollonian energies.

In her austere self-discipline, in her sexual abstinence, there is a silent despair; the tenebrous thought of never finding one's soul-mate.

This very melancholia you can see in her eyes; it's transparent.

And she will often get very defensive on matters of love; it manifests in her language, when she tries to rationalize her solitude with all sorts of self-flattering deceits.

But this defensiveness betrays her essence even more and confirms what's already conspicuous in her eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:20 pm

Love in movies

I cannot express in words how much I dislike most of the so-called 'romance' movies. Almost all of them are generic, lack depth, and promote the role of the male as a beta, a surrogate female who has to appease the woman with gifts, and often by competing with other males over petty things.

It's also ridiculous how they exhibit so much fear when they do something the woman deems 'wrong', exposing their submissiveness to her rules and implying her authority over them. Disgusting, castrated, modern fucks.

Oftentimes there is a wingman of the main character, who is a womanizer, and doesn't care about indiscriminately granting respect to all females and that sort of stuff, and of course he is made to look like the crazy, evil one, who usually converts into a beta-male too by the end of the movie.

Love is already made abstract to the point of the word not meaning much anymore - it is the magical, mystical, all-binding, invisible force all deserve to receive equally.
Pure fiction now, a fantastic ideal with no reference in reality.
The concept of love in such a movie becomes fiction within fiction - occupying 'the third place from truth', as Plato would say.
This serves to promote femininity and servitude in men, and women are mostly portrayed as these loving innocent angels who would never hurt a fly and who are capable of 'loving' men.
Women were never biologically programmed to love men, they were programmed to be loved and desired in order to acquire resources from the best males they can get.

Such Hollywood propaganda is partially responsible for the idiocy and naivety of modern men who are under the delusions of romantic idealism, but mostly it is our own fault for we accepted it in the first place, and some of us are still too weak to overcome it.

My take on love

Absolute, unconditional love doesn't exist. No such thing as two people 'destined' to be together, no cosmical meaning or a divine agency behind people meeting each other.
What there is, is various degrees of compatibility between people - love on first sight is nothing more than lust on first sight.

Love is the kind of relationship that, given time and circumstance, gradually develops between two highly compatible individuals - powerful emotional and rational bonds transcending contingency to a certain extent, so even if a man/woman eventually meets somebody who might have initially been more compatible to them, they would stay with their current partner out of love. It can thus be considered a growing artificial/memetic addition to genetic compatibility, and it requires sincerity and effort from both sides to properly develop and maintain. I consider this description to be more fit of the more intelligent and educated part of the population that is more aware of the true, biological nature of love and, thus has very little or no fantastical delusions about it - natural love.

The more average, ignorant people can base love on something other-worldly, and as long as they strongly believe it, their bond may be stronger than that of a couple with a more nature-based love.
But also, it is more often that you find average, ignorant people to 'love out of necessity' and settle, because they realized they can't do any better, which can also contribute to the strength of their bond.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:21 pm

Satyr wrote:
and without her superficiality and inability to take any idea seriously, for any period of time exceeding seven years, this would have been impossible.

You say seven years. What is the significance of this? There is a theory going around that says DNA regenerates every seven years. Is this related to it?
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:00 pm

Seven years is roughly the time a human child needs to mature before it becomes relatively autonomous.
The "seven year itch" is a reference to a human female going into "heat" around that period of time.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:32 pm

Reply to Impulso Oscuro's posts here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Men need to drop romantic (delusional) views about women and hope for 'romantic love'.

The vast majority of females are incapable of anything resembling romantic love, and this is not their fault, it's just how they are biologically programmed.
Females of some species will, if their alpha is overthrown by a new one, let the new alpha kill the offspring of the old one, and then they will proceed to mate with the new alpha. You will see remnants of this instinctive behavior even in human females who you would otherwise consider to be way above it. But, like I said, this is just how they are programmed. It's almost impossible to overcome one's instinctive side.

I assume that, like me, if some other woman killed the woman you love, you would avenge your beloved one and kill the other female on general principle, regardless of how hot she is and if she promises sex or not. Hell, you'd probably do it even if it involved a high risk to your own well being.

Do you get the difference now, and why romanticism is pointless?
When women say they are looking for love, they mean they want to receive love from a man they deem worthy.
When men say they are looking for love, they mean they want to give it to a woman.
I guess romantic men will also want to receive it, and romantic women may think they are capable of giving it, but those are delusions.

Egalitarian/equalist relationship will never truly exist, and trying to force it into existence is counter-productive and will likely achieve the opposite effect of the one you desire. A romantic man may put their woman's life before themselves, but the woman will never reciprocate, so you will only end up fucking yourself over. Moreover, because women always seek what is superior to them, lowering yourself down and pretending you're at their level if you're really not, only makes you seem weak in their eyes which makes their hypergamous instincts kick in, and they begin looking for a new male. One who would not be ashamed of taking his rightful dominating role of leader, and relegating her to a subsidiary, supportive role, as is appropriate for a female as most females subconsciously know.

Females are important because of their womb, and because of their motherly nurturing instincts, which a child requires to properly develop. That, and the above mentioned supportive role is what they're good at. Anything else they do, and pretty much everything they say, is irrelevant.

You should read/listen to some of Satyr's opinions on this if you haven't, another person I suggest is TurdFlingingMonkey, he understands females well too.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:23 pm

Its not so much that i haven't heard or don't know about it... but if its the case and we do need to preserve ourselves despite this, then what option is there for men who feel disgust at the more subtle methods of obtaining reproductive access. I am by no means bad at it, but i hate it, i spent the better part of last year attempting it, only for my efforts to be undone by a Virgo who managed to be a good manipulator and still haunts me to this very day.

I hate fighting in this life with my hands tied behind my back and then being told that i don't need them anyways, even if they aren't the strongest hands, i would rather fall using them then to have never used them at all...
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:33 pm

I don't think it's wise to emotionally invest in a woman... nor financially, for that matter. In your child, yes, but a woman might leave you at any second, despite of what she says. Maybe in the past, when they couldn't just leave you with no consequences at all, but now, no. They may mean things like 'I love you' at the moment, but the next moment they can change their mind, and then you get the 'I meant it at the moment', which I think is in many cases true... but worthless.

But that's just my opinion, and I'm even younger and so probably less experienced than you... at least when it comes to first-hand experience.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:39 pm

Arbiter of Change wrote:
I don't think it's wise to emotionally invest in a woman... nor financially, for that matter. In your child, yes, but a woman might leave you at any second, despite of what she says. Maybe in the past, when they couldn't just leave you with no consequences at all, but now, no. They may mean things like 'I love you' at the moment, but the next moment they can change their mind, and then you get the 'I meant it at the moment', which I think is in many cases true... but worthless.

But that's just my opinion, and I'm even younger and so probably less experienced than you... at least when it comes to first-hand experience.

A woman is the gateway to a man's legacy, and thus stipulates the investments of retaining her to him. Depending on the libidinal urges of the man, he might value the sanctity of his ideas before that of a child, and vice versa. Weininger says, a man has the ability to be either a Monk or a Don Juan.

Yes, Women are fickle in relationships because they have a predisposed high valuation of their sexual worth. Despite any pretentious modern beliefs of humbleness they ascribe to, or insecurities, they are aware, instinctively, of their procreative value and sexual prowess; hence any man they happen to be with, is merely a potential, a candidate, until he becomes the bearer of their offspring. This is why in public, women will be compelled to impulsively and shamelessly flirt openly with other men, even in front of their husbands or boyfriends. They surrender to their sexuality, their primitive urges, but their sexual selection filter prevents them from just fucking anyone. Women have a lower awareness of reflecting rationally on what love is, and only have it as a sensation, which is why it doesn't mean much to them in the end; its ephemeral. Men have a deeper awareness of an idea of an emotion and therefore have a higher spiritual connection to it, and so they feel greater pain when their hearts are broken.

Today, in the land of sluts and whores, the idea of love is even further dissociated from their reprobate upbringings and natures. They have never learned the value of having an identity or principles and therefore do not give a shit about honoring something besides pleasure and fun.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:17 am

Kvasir wrote:
Depending on the libidinal urges of the man, he might value the sanctity of his ideas before that of a child, and vice versa. Weininger says, a man has the ability to be either a Monk or a Don Juan.

Why not make a compromise and attempt to have and raise a child and concurrently develop one's ideas and intellect? Or do you think it would force too many concessions on an individual, preventing him from being able to dedicate sufficient time to either of the two?

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PostSubject: Re: What is Love? Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:44 pm

Arbiter of Change wrote:
Kvasir wrote:
Depending on the libidinal urges of the man, he might value the sanctity of his ideas before that of a child, and vice versa. Weininger says, a man has the ability to be either a Monk or a Don Juan.

Why not make a compromise and attempt to have and raise a child and concurrently develop one's ideas and intellect? Or do you think it would force too many concessions on an individual, preventing him from being able to dedicate sufficient time to either of the two?


The intrinsic drive to secure ones genetic future is what motivates the need for a man to endure a woman's addling vexations. This is nature. But, your questions are related more to a balanced state in this regard, which is possible. It's a matter of how much of either potential you want to develop and this has to do with the severity of genetic drives and temperaments. A man with a child will inevitably, have to forgo parts of himself for the benefit of the child, but not absolutely, depending on his individualistic qualities, his discipline for solitude, intelligence, perceptive sharpness and so forth. Ultimately though, in either case, a man will strive to cultivate himself.
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