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mannequin

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PostSubject: Absolute Flow Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:17 am

Would anybody consider a continuous state of flow, constant activity evidence for absoluteness?

This activity is not necessarily limited to human life or biological life on earth.


Last edited by mannequin on Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:33 am

Provided one can consciously comprehend the limitations of consciousness in order to consider such constant activity as evidence for absoluteness?

If no, then what evidence would ever be accepted to the conscious mind?
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:46 am

mannequin wrote:
Would anybody consider a continuous state of flow, constant activity evidence for absoluteness?

This activity is not necessarily limited to human life or biological life on earth.

In this universe...but as there are theories about multi-verses each with its own "constant", referring to the rate of expansion of space/time, the absolute shatters.
Furthermore, the consistency of this rate of flow is fluctuating.
Universal expansion speeding up, only the rate of acceleration can be considered a constant.

If we place our universe within a framework of aeons, of repeating big bangs (how the end comes is still debated - in cold or in heat).
The best description I found was by Penrose (Circles of Time)   where he agrees with me that Hawkins prematurely gave up on his theory about data loss in Black holes, he describes the process as a pancaking.
Each universe atop atop the past one, and birthing a future one - circularity.
He calls them aeons.
In it he hypothesizes that each aeon differs from the previous one and the next one, in a slight divergence on the what we call the laws of nature.
There is no consistency between our universe and the previous one, or to the next one, there is an effect: evolution of universes.
Each new Big Bang creating a new constant, with new Laws of Nature - slightly modified.
He describes how current theories describe black holes as communicating across aeons.

In my cosmo-theory as space/time expands the emergence of a new universe, becomes inevitable - considering that space = possibility.
Black holes are the implosion in our universe exploding into another - therefore data loss.
Each new universe is not the same as the one that birthed it, therefore no life as we know it is possible in it.  
We can imagine that over endless "beginnings" this one will repeat, validating the Hindu idea of rebirth.

Taking it regionally, yes, there is a constant that makes life, as we know it possible, but this does not translate into a cosmic constant, where by cosmic we include multi-verses.



mannequin wrote:
Provided one can consciously comprehend the limitations of consciousness in order to consider such constant activity as evidence for absoluteness?

If no, then what evidence would ever be accepted to the conscious mind?


Organisms are attracted to patterns/order, and it is to be expected that it would find them everywhere, and when it cannot it assumes them, or constructs them, as theoretical.
We exist in a world of order, because we can only perceive order, interpreting randomness/chaos as void/dark, and we find the idea(l) of a universal order seductive - better an 'known evil" than an incomprehensible one.
The unknown terrifies us on a visceral level.
Modern philosophy attempts to convert all into known, or knowable.
It's an extension of the old religions, offering comfort and hope.

Patterns is how the mind makes sense of itself and the world it finds itself within - is "thrown into".
This is the subjective perceptual-event-horizon.    

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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:13 am

I'm glad you asked these questions, for they go to the heart of what we are doing here, and we call philosophy.

Beneath it all this question you pinpointed is the underlying one.
The idea of chaos mortifies us all - it implies that one day you wake up, with pain, and a few months later you die of complications caused by cancer - as was the fate of my dad.
It is the fear of the unpredictable.

You can smell it in the desperate efforts of Moderns to construct an all-encompassing Order to replace the, now, outdated one of a Judeo-Christian God.
We can smell it in M-theory, or in the purposeful confusion between world, as existence, and the existence of life - debating about reality, and introducing human needs and hopes, and anxieties, and rules to deal with them, and beliefs to be used to cope.

There is always a convolution between what is, and what ought to be, or between cosmos and world as man, of man, for man.
The two connect but not perfectly - one deals with chaos/order and the other only with the perceptible patterns of order.
Even when attempting to integrate the incomprehensible, the counter-intuitive, men do so by reducing it to a symbol, a metaphor, a word, implying pre-existing order.
Everywhere man looks he sees motive, intent, patterns of consistent predictability - they see god: projection of their organic order as an externalized esotericism - they see their own psyche as vague spirits dwelling in stones and clouds, and rivers.


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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:59 pm

In this particular period and region, even though humans are considered the most advanced beings in relation to this earth, they seem incredibly low level, with the exception of a few who are almost alien to the self of human relation, where timelessness is entered. Which to me seems to be a platform of growth, and the advancement is not necessarily slow, if the self consciously wills itself into understanding, then awareness of timelessness is realized. I guess the evolution of this determines the level of fixture of this awareness, it doesn't seem to be definitely structured, possibly because of no absolutes relative to a time based being, but you can not move faster than that which is already determined naturally, which probably explains the adjusting into a fixture over time, creating stages. This could explain certain differences of races, and individuals, As i'm not entirely sure if it moves as a complete gathering, it doesn't seem so.

Being unconscious, then conscious, then self-conscious, then conscious of self-consciousness..is where i am, most, literally almost all people i come across seem only conscious and some of them self-conscious...but my evolution of self-conscious to conscious of self-consciousness is a developing progress in the time of my being, and it's on shaky grounds, it isn't bad, i'm relatively pleased with it. I'm not to sure what comes after this state/stage, but i'm not sure my body and mind could handle it, speaking of course from those shaky grounds of a previous state to which i'm relating my projected imagination upon, but i guess when those grounds stabilize it will allow for a new stage of development.

If the multi-verse theory falls through, then doesn't it default to an absolute constant, which technically would be cosmic as well since there would only be one universe at that point?
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:06 am

No, because then the "constant" would have to be proven as timeless, or as never altering.
Man would have to exit existence and perceive it as a whole.
Unable to do so he is restricted to measuring world through his perceptions of patterns - regionally.
We till do not know if our measurements are regional or universal, and the concept of a whole uni-verse is also a human construct.
A tree, is not a static thing, it is a process united by genetic memory, which inanimate matter/energy lacks, unless we claim that every previous (inter)action is expressed in its presence, but this is not memory,a s we know it, it is causality: past/nature manifesting as appearance/presence - no code, no memory required.
A true experienced is not static...the concept is. It is flowing constantly, never the same...
Interaction with other patterns and randomness morphing it, warping it continuously, and it correcting itself using  genetic memory code as an inherited blueprint which is also being affected.  

Present models indicate that the cosmos experiences a first stage of accelerated expansion, soon after the Big Bang, and then settled upon a constant rate...which may be accelerating as order is slowly being reduced (randomness increasing).
Is the acceleration constant....perhaps. At least man can only measure it by using his own metabolic rates as a standard - even the tools he invents are extensions of his own biological processes.
You cannot find what you are not looking for.
Most of reality remain unknown because man cannot even imagine it, so as to invent a tool to look for it.the only way is through indirect methods. An incomprehensible event, (inter)action, requiring explanation, within the premises of what is already known - precedent (past/nature).

Randomness (chaos) is by definition not order...not consistent, repeating, constant, reliable, predictable.  
What we do perceive is order, so of course it would be constant, predictable, consistent....ordered.
We can only conceptualize and measure what we can perceive.

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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:32 pm

Would you say that death is a human construct?
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:27 pm

mannequin wrote:
Would you say that death is a human construct?

I just wanted to comment on this. The Abrahamic conception of death assumes a 'soul'. The 'soul', being that awareness we have that develops alongside the ability for object permanence when we're young.

This 'soul' becomes what is absolutely [denied experience or phenomenon] - we imagine as absolute void when imagining death. The 'soul' itself is imagined as existence outside bodies/nature or flux - as a phantom projected beside/against memories within a [neuron cosmos] of [on/off] or [1/0], which we project our own motives and intentions onto. The [neuron cosmos] being our own brain.

Death, in the empirical sense, is not disconnected from the method(s). One may have a heart attack, die by cancer or be decapitated. The separation of death from body is why one is unable to celebrate it - they imagine that with death so also goes all of their legacy, becoming deceased, where it actually continues (even still today).

All symbols are human constructs, including the ones which negate life absolutely. Death, in the Abrahamic sense, is a human construct. The sense most connected to nature, allowing legacy to be included in the definition, is less 'human' and more 'truthful' - though it always maintain a human aspect, being that it is the human which utilizes the concept. If you want to be absolutist about it, all experience we interpret and utilize is a human construct - or none at all.


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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:09 pm

mannequin wrote:
Would you say that death is a human construct?
Death just means an end to the congruity of patterns from where consciousness emerges.

The patterns do not end, they return to the flux, but consciousness of the flux, the life they produced, does end.

My understanding of "soul/spirit" is a past/nature.
The organism's soul is the sum of all the events, (inter)actions, causes that made it possible.
This is part of its genetic memory.
For this to continue the memories have to be passed on either genetically (procreation) or memetically (creation)
.
If not the continuity, the causal chain of memory, is broken. The patterns that participated in the congruity return to Flux.

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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:20 pm

I guess raising consciousness as the flux itself or consciousness that also returns to the flux as one is where modern spiritualism kind of begins, as previously mentioned.
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:14 pm

It's interesting that a lot of pioneers of science believe in an absolute.
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:33 am

mannequin wrote:
It's interesting that a lot of pioneers of science believe in an absolute.

If deep down inside, they truly believed, would they be pioneers?

Why bring further order, unless your intent was to establish an order of your own... Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Absolute Flow Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:32 am

Science is not immune to the dis-ease....
Absolutes are part of how the mind thinks.
When consciousness is still primitive it confuses its own inner voice, for god's voice, and we have Jayne's Bicameral Mind.
Later this evolves into mistaking one's own abstractions (noumena) for divine phenomena.

The Big Bang and the seeking of the "beginning" point, the Omega point, - elusive singularity - is one based no a presupposition of an absolute.
It will never be found, of course, but that they think it is out there, waiting to be discovered, is about their own projections.
M-Theory for some is this belief in the discovery of absolute knowledge, the fabric of the uni-verse, the merging of Newtonian and Quantum physics.
Search for the Holy Grail.
Scientists are human.
Many of them dare not study reality when it comes to humans and sexual, racial differences, because their careers would be in jeopardy, because many of them are infected with the virus, because they are heavily dependent on funding, and because they and their families would be placed at risk.

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