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AutSider



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PostSubject: Church burnings and stuff Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:25 am

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I think I remember hearing Varg Vikernes, one of the perpetrators, say why he did it - he said that he is an odinist and that Christians came into lands which were not theirs, conquered them, desecrated sacred pagan grounds and built churches on top of them, so that he considers himself justified in burning the churches as retribution and taking back what is rightfully theirs, or something like that.

Now to me, this is a clear case of 2 groups with different ideals and cultures resolving their conflicts in the most honest way possible - using warfare and fighting it out for dominance over land and resources. In reality, as in, reality outside of human constructs, no organism has any "right" to anything, "rights" and "rules" and "laws" only apply to those WITHIN human systems, and only to the extent that particular system can physically enforce them with mercenaries (police and military). It is no more immoral that Christians conquered odinists and took their lands, than it would be if odinists took their lands back.

But many people on both sides of the issue think that for some reason I cannot describe as anything else but "magical", they are in the "right" while the other group is in the "wrong".

It is just funny listening to both sides. Christians come into odinist lands, use violence to conquer them, use threat of violence to establish themselves as status quo, desecrate sacred pagan grounds by building churches upon them, and then when some odinists try to subvert the system from within and avenge their ancestors, they are being attacked on the grounds that they are violent and that they desecrate sacred Christian buildings... lol?

Odinists, on the other hand, despite being vikings, and pagans, and whatever else, will often buy into the nonsense that they had the "right", not the right granted to them by the system which was defeated, but some "divine" or whatever right, to these lands, and that Christians took what rightfully belonged to them, as if Christians, who came as CONQUERORS, had some moral obligations to behave in accordance with the laws of those they come to conquer. This is a consequence of confusing the ingroup with the outgroup and projecting human social constructs outside of human societies. People begin to think that rights are not humanly constructed, but that human constructs are based on some "natural rights" (I rofl each time I hear this retarded oxymoron ), which leads them to mistakenly believe that humans from other groups have some magical obligations to abide by the same laws and respect the same rights, when they don't.

This is why heterogenous systems and multicultural systems are doomed to failure unless they become homogenous. You will have different types of ordering (odinists and Christians in this case) fighting for dominance. The more diversity there is and the less dominant any particular group is, the less stable (more chaotic) the system will be. A system which is 90% Christian 10% odinist may survive as odinists would likely be too few to fight back, so they would just be put in prison whenever they dared to act in contradiction with the predominant, Christian, ordering. If it was 70% Christian 30% odinist it would become much less stable and Christians would have more difficulties enforcing their order. 50% and 50% is complete unpredictable chaos.

Another concrete example of why order = increase in one possibility into a probability, aka one possibility (Christianity f.e.) becoming more probable than all others, while chaos means equalization, the reduction of all probabilities into being equally possible, resulting in unpredictability, or lower predictability.

All other factors equal, if there are 2 systems fighting one anther, and system 1 is 100% homogenous, aka all of its people abide by some same basic beliefs, similar to NS Germany, while another, system 2 has 20% of X, 20% of Y, 20% of Z, etc. Then system 1 would have the advantage because system 2 would suffer of infighting. In fact, it might be beneficial for system 1 not to invade or conquer system 2, but to just promote the chaos in system 2 and prevent any one of X, Y, or Z becoming dominant, waiting and letting time take its toll while letting them kill each other off until they are so weak that system 1 can walk in and conquer 2 with practically no resistance whatsoever.
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PostSubject: Re: Church burnings and stuff Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:29 am

Moderns face an identity crisis when their natural predispositions, their nature, finding connections in Paganism is usurped, buried, by a Nihilistic meme, such as Abrahamic spirituality, which then contradicts it.
Most go crazy.
They compartmentalize their ideals to keep them safe from the contradictions.
They become schizoid, saying one thing, in accordance with the Nihilistic meme, the social public face, and thinking and sometimes behaving, in secret, in opposition to what they say.

They become confused, to survive.
Many actually become convinced that their public face, what I call their character, is their personae, their private self.
This is more so in women who easily accept external dominance as a necessary, pragmatic norm they adapt to.
Saying one thing and acting in contradiction to it, is how Nihilists convince of their own lies, expose their inner turmoil - sexual aberrations, fetishes, fantasies, dreams, is how their inner turmoil is expunged.
They need entertainment to deal with it.
Modern art, fART, becomes a vehicle to relive this internal confusion and conflict.

In heterogeneous populations of anonymity, this disconnection of the essence of an individual form an environment completely fabricated, is exacerbated.
For some a total schism is the outcome - insanity, or anger, or from the thymotic towards the erotic a death-wish expressed as a desire to disappear within other, within a group and become a part of something else: absorbed into a one or a nil...the absolute.

Nihilistic memes, such as Christianity attacks an individual through his meme.
It has no existence outside human minds, it is idea(l), and so its enemy, its way into the body is through the meme already present in its mind.

To destroy a meme it has to completely dominate the mind, using emotion.
Destroying the family, by making females into memetic filters with no genetic attachments, and making males obsolete is how the particular meme makes sure no other meme is challenging it, because the male is the one that carries the meme, the culture among the pagans, and the female is a means.
In Nihilism this is inverted. The Nihilistic meme passes to the offspring via the female, and the male is a means.
This is an inversion of natural order.
The reason why modern family's no longer exist, or are quickly becoming a remnant of a forgotten past, and replaced by homosexual or alternative unions, lacking any reproductive potential is because by freeing children form the father they become vulnerable, or more susceptible, to the infection, delivered via art, and education, by the institutionalized 'male', the State, or the Church.

Confused usage of words is a symptom of the Nihilistic memetic virus, it being entirely noetic, relies exclusively on symbols, language, to remain vital and to spread form mind to mind.
Children with no fathers, or weak ones, are more susceptible to its infection.

Christianity, despite its Family oriented spread is a very anti-family spiritual dogma.
We see it in Biblical allegories.
We do not only see it in the tale of Abraham, the central figure for all Nihilistic Abrahamic religions, but also in the Christ's story.
The father is reduced to a surrogate mother, and God is the father of them all.
Jesus is not an orphan, he's a bastard. , who goes off looking for his 'real' father....and finds God.


In genetic and memetic homogeneous populations the father was a representation of the community's bloodline, with the leader, the king, as the figurehead.
In Modern heterogeneous systems there is no genetic or memetic commonality.
Nihilism rejects the genetic component, in all areas, the physical....and promotes an anti world, anti-life, anti-nature noetic meme which also contradicts a shared meme.
In its place it places an idea with no external references = a theory, an ideology, lacking all references outside minds.
At first the retention of the Divine father figure was essential to exploit cultural norms...but in time these were lost, and so a God became unnecessary.
Today we have Americanism, or globalism, as it is called....the 'culture of no culture'.
A meme that can be anything, for anyone, at any time, with the only binding rule being that on'es private meme does not disturb that of his neighbour's: each can occupy the same time/space and exist, noetically, in different realities.

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Cult_Leader

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PostSubject: Re: Church burnings and stuff Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:32 am

AutSider wrote:

Now to me, this is a clear case of 2 groups with different ideals and cultures resolving their conflicts in the most honest way possible - using warfare and fighting it out for dominance over land and resources.

This is what Varg Vikernes wants you to believe, but it's not the actual case here.

(1) If he wanted to start a real ideological debate, he would not have mixed it together with his commercial interests in the black metal scene.
(2) There were other pagan groups in Norway fighting for their interests by peaceful means. Vikernes could have joined them, as they were the ones that had a sustainable strategy.
(3) When 2 groups are resolving their ideological conflicts, it is neither honest nor civilized to destroy public property or in other ways causing harm to 3rd parties.

At least [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (just to mention a few) understands these basics.
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Impulso Oscuro

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PostSubject: Re: Church burnings and stuff Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:51 pm

Much of the resentment comes from being conquered by a quantitative force which effectively is a representation of entropy, Pagans did not receive the honest defeat that we few would respect as being a true expression of strength, courage, and intellect.

Anyone can conquer with numbers, when you see several blacks ganging up on a single white guy, do you consider him weak as a result? No, we understand that with enough bodies even the noblest and most vital can fall under a flood. This has been the case from wars such as the American Civil War to WW2. There is a reason why we respect the Few Spartans against the many Persians.

It is only us that value 1v1 or "near-equal" combat and even then, we don't seek the complete annihilation of other as they give us a way of measuring ourselves.

Cult_Leader wrote:
There were other pagan groups in Norway fighting for their interests by peaceful means. Vikernes could have joined them, as they were the ones that had a sustainable strategy.

Peaceful means are frankly boring and a good fire always tends to be more inspirational than just words. If words are what led women and children away from us, then it is ultimately actions which will make them return. It definitely worked for him, he managed to find a good wife as a result.
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PostSubject: Re: Church burnings and stuff Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:01 pm

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
There is a reason why we respect the Few Spartans against the many Persians.

No problem with that, but the comparison isn't valid. The situation in Bergen, Norway in 1992 was different.

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
a good fire always tends to be more inspirational than just words.

Maybe, but why cause damage to a 3rd party that was not part of the original conflict?

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
It definitely worked for him, he managed to find a good wife as a result.

Really? You must have extensive knowledge about his personal life. So tell me, why did he leave Bergen?
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PostSubject: Re: Church burnings and stuff Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:54 pm

Cult_Leader wrote:
No problem with that, but the comparison isn't valid. The situation in Bergen, Norway in 1992 was different.
What do you mean "different"?

Cult_Leader wrote:
Maybe, but why cause damage to a 3rd party that was not part of the original conflict?
Existence is a declaration of war, against all other organisms, collateral damage will always happen.

Cult_Leader wrote:
Really? You must have extensive knowledge about his personal life. So tell me, why did he leave Bergen?
Extensive knowledge? You tell me. All I know is the man met a good woman likely because of his prison time.
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