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 Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains

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AutSider



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PostSubject: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:00 pm

I agree more with anti-hero and 'villain' characters now than with 'heroes'. Except when the villain has a simple, nonsensical motive like "destroy everything for sake of destruction", I can usually at least sympathize with them even if I don't agree. An example is Vegeta from DB (Majin Vegeta was great) who Toriyama, the writer of DB, intentionally wanted to make as an unlikeable character but ironically he is usually the voice of reason and many fans love him.

Also characters like Red Skull, Rorschach, Joker, Green Goblin, the Sith in Star Wars etc. are often more reasonable than the 'heroes' who oppose them. As said in that video linked in the feminism thread recently, it is very true that hero = servant.

It is usually the villains who are made out to be evil and often physically ugly too, that deliver the harsh truths. This is part of modern propaganda, associating certain truths with evil, ugly, villainous figures to discredit them while claiming that the good, the desirable hero ideal, is to be a self-sacrificing servant. How very self-serving of such people to enjoy others sacrificing themselves for their sake. After all, is not every self-sacrifice imbalanced in the sense that one side always gives more than it receives (the self-sacrificing one), and the other side receives more than it gives?
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Impulso Oscuro

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PostSubject: Re: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:14 am

Its also made self-sacrifice a universal instead of a tribal quality, devaluing it, and allowing some of those villains to justify their own atomized selfishness as rational or reasonable.

Its unfortunate that the excess energies produced by potential Dancing Stars, are being used to fuel the modern machine but most often they will just dance no matter what, like the sun regardless if a great tree or a meek weed draws energy from them. Fortunately, there are other Stars which give rise to the Fire which cleanses the Earth once more.


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Anfang

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PostSubject: Re: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:37 am

With the latest super hero stories, the quest has become greater and more universal.
The hero doesn't 'save' the princess to marry the princess but he is saving humanity or Gotham City.
Which, when you think about it is like being the guardian of decay.
All are in the cage and the overcrowded cage and its inhabitants must be maintained. Nobody shall rise above the rest.

No emerging groups, no distinctions, no loyalties.
The maggots approve of that cadaver.
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polishyouth



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PostSubject: Re: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:01 am

The way I see it is that there are levels of meaning to it.
On the most obvious level of motives and socio-psychological dynamics of comic books with heroes and villains you have their target audience and how it is adjusted to the needs of it so to be able to sell itself and make profit already betraying a hypocrisy of its authors; they, to be able to make such a predicament as in what is going to sell well, need to be able to analyse the situation objectively, come to conclusions as to what their target audience is and then sell them false hopes of becoming something its not. If one would like to argue that their motives were different, that they wanted to inspire weaker kids to become stronger then one would have to explain to me why every hero in the comics has a 'divine' intervention where he goes from 0-100(always leaving hope that despite through looking at patterns of ones behaviors and potentials one can 'wake up' to be what one wants to) instead of presenting the main character as a slowly, humbly developing figure, with much more focus on that very development and its nature and reality. This also explains why comic books go on for ages, the need of an individual to live 'his' life through the life of the character in it - to simulate life, be regular and combine the different elements of life into one continuity. A comic book is on this level like any other form of self-correction like gym, martial arts, clothing obsessions etc.
On the other levels it was explored by Satyr better than I could here:
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:58 am

There are still so many unexplored dimensions to this Modernization of mythologies.
I've wanted to add to it how comic books have repackaged ancient mythologies, literally redressed and painted with make-up to crate our Modern comic book Superheroes and Villains....in DC Comics and MARVEL.
I've added some in my MANifesto, but have not posted it.
It takes time and effort if I am to do it right....must include images.

Superheroes are now caricatures - see how I define character, versus personae, or personality - of what were once called freaks, nerds and geeks - men-children or the socially cultivated autistic 9idiot savants).
Social types produced in a world full of zombies, seeking an identity. rejecting past/nature has left a void that can now be covered with a garment, a mask.
In the mind the individual can be anything, do superhuman feats, accomplish incredible things.
specialization is like a super-human ability.
Each individual and choose and focus his/her entire aggregate energies towards one specific talent, and be completely inept in everything else - autism.

I see Superheroes and Supervillains as Nihilistic archetypes (Modern ideals) - focused energies/talents, inter-dependence, because specialization makes you more dependent on others in the areas you've abandoned, left to atrophy, so as to focus your energies, liberated from nature (gravity, reality and so on).


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AutSider



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PostSubject: Re: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:31 pm

Anfang wrote:
With the latest super hero stories, the quest has become greater and more universal.
The hero doesn't 'save' the princess to marry the princess but he is saving humanity or Gotham City.
Which, when you think about it is like being the guardian of decay.
All are in the cage and the overcrowded cage and its inhabitants must be maintained. Nobody shall rise above the rest.

No emerging groups, no distinctions, no loyalties.
The maggots approve of that cadaver.

Yes, to be a superhero nowadays means to protect decay, this is also what bothers me very much. The strong exist to serve the weak and must have no other motives. They must be completely selfless.

Anybody who dares to distinguish himself from the masses and refuses to abide by degenerate rules is made into a villain. In fact, to do ANYTHING which goes against the current status quo makes one a villain. A group which desires to overthrow current powers and establish dominion over some territory, be it a single country or the entire world, is always made to be evil by virtue of usurping the current power, as if the current power is innocent and non-violent and has no hand in domination at all.

Again, very well made propaganda for those currently in power to maintain their power, sending the message that everybody who goes against the status quo is a bad guy and must be dealt with.
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Heroes vs anti-heroes and villains Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Semiotics in Watchmen

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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