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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 2:13 pm

The need to be the victim, the one who is not responsible for a choice, is another way of avoiding the responsibility for all the known and unknown consequences that may follow.
By forcing another to turn you away, or to reject you, you can always return to him/her as an innocent victim, and the other will always remain the one who can be blamed for whatever negative repercussions this choice produces.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 4:47 pm

A man holds himself accountable, first and foremost, to his own ancestors - this is where he finds and feels his greatest duty towards - for his ancestors gave him what he seeks to extend in himself and beyond himself, through others, time.
What is time other than a relationship of the subjective with the objective; the experience of interactivity - change - measured by the individual's own rates of metabolism and sensual processing?
What a man is given, and feels a duty to expand and extend, beyond the limits of his mortal flesh, is the experience of change, within which probabilities emerge within the plane of expanding possibilities; each probability offering its own set of options to choose from, and each option alluding to different sets of unexplored and uncultivated potentials.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 5:16 pm

The mind is held as god, because unlike the body it is not limited by the tangible, by natural order. Whether we know it or not, when we speak of the absolute, or of the divine, it is always an allusion to mind and its abstractions. It can synthesize monsters that have never walked the earth; it can travel in time, jumping to a past the individual has not experienced first-hand, or leap towards a yet to be future, it will never experience; it can cross great distances with an ease creativity bestows upon it.
For this reason it had to impose some self-restricting rules and laws of logic, disciplining its god-like abilities to the same constraints the body endures.
The body is a manifestation of past - past made present - and its options are few and automatically evaluated and chosen, but the mind has access to options denied to the body's sluggish impulses, and can choose to contradict itself, or precedent, or its own past, choosing to take it towards a new direction, or, in the extreme case, choose to self-negate and self-contradict and self-deceive, as in the case of nihilism.  

We can say that there are two types of 'freedom: 'freedom from' and 'freedom to' - the former being all but impossible, because past cannot be denied but only forgotten, or ignored to the mind's own peril; but 'freedom to' - as in 'will to ...power' or 'will to....life' or even 'will to death' - implies a choice advancing towards an unprecedented objective.
It is in the mind where body becomes lucid (determined past), in relation to appearance (interactive relationship in the present, i.e., meaning), in regards to an objective (future); it is in mind where this triad is held in unison as an abstract map, which can direct the body in ways it could not have using its own intuitive impulses.
It is in mind where will attains its highest potential, because it is in mind where precedent can be ignored - liberating mind from its own past, i.e., liberating it from the body it emerges from.
Here is where nihilism finds its seductive potency - as mind contradicting bod, i.e., rejecting physical, corporeal limitations - to the point of rejecting its very existence or relevance in its identity.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 5:38 pm

Pertaining to freedom we must not fall into the error of confusing it with freedom of will, for to speak of freedom is to speak of 'freedom from' and 'freedom to' - the latter being the common way the average mind considers the concept of 'freedom'.
'Freedom from' alludes to past, to what has been determined and cannot be changed; so to speak of freedom, in this context, is to imply a forgetfulness, or self-abnegation, in theory only, because the past cannot be escaped, not even in death, but it can only be ignored, rejected and forgotten.
We are left with 'freedom to' which is not part of universal existence but of a type emerging within existence; a type - called 'life' - that can wilfully direct and choose behaviours that contradicts its body's impulses. 'Freedom to' - as in 'will to....power....or life'....or anything - implies a direction giving which may be unprecedented, in other words, a choice made in the determining present - in the still being determined present - that directs the organism towards goals it never directed itself in the past; so 'freedom to' alludes to a 'freedom from past', in the context of precedent, and not as a negation of self altogether.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 6:01 pm

The idea of absolute order, and laws of nature/physics being something more than just man-made laws describing man's knowledge and understanding of what he perceives, i.e., matter/energy exhibiting patterns (order), are taken to be divine, unquestionable....just as once the Ten Commandments were taken to be God's unquestionable words.
The idea that existence may not be entirely ordered, and so cannot be reduced to a set of laws that only describe how patterns interact, is a concept the common mind, born and raised within Abrahamic superstitions, cannot comprehend - it would be like telling a man born and raised in the Levant, at the time of Moses, that the Ten Commandments are not the word of god, but man-made words chiselled on a stone tablet for effect, symbolizing laws that cannot be broken.

Whenever science speaks of laws it means human laws explaining human understanding of human perceptions...not god's laws, not laws that will never be changed or abandoned as new data is accumulated, and understanding alterers how man translates data; just as Newton's Laws are now under question due to quantum physics.
Laws of Physics do not come to man from some divine source, but are laws man creates from his own interpretation of data (knowledge) and how it all inter-relates (understanding).
Since science, as an extension of man, only deals with order, it can only process and explain order.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 6:26 pm

The concept of innocence rests on the possibility of ignorance. the idea that if man is unaware of the choices he is constantly making, and the actions he is constantly performing, automatically, then he is innocent of all the consequences.
Such a coward reduces himself to the ego - the lucid part - ignoring the Know Thyself decree, or intentionally self-deceiving how many of his own actions and how much of his own choices he is concious of, so as to convince himself and others, that he was completely ignorant of them and all possible consequences that may manifest because of them.
Such minds are terrified of the enormity of repercussions for the smallest decision, and choice made, or are terrified of their own inability to judge and to self-discipline themselves, choosing to downplay the negative possibilities and exaggerating the positive ones.
Their won failing they claim is the mark of innocence...because they didn't really intend the negative, and the shame that goes with it, though they quickly claim responsibility for the positive, and feel proud of their own performances and participation in producing them - contradicting their own positions.
If they were true to their own beliefs concerning determinism then they would feel as little pride as they would feel shame, since none of it was due to their wilful actions, but were preordained when the cosmos was created, as an end in itself.

In their cowardly mind to be ignorant - intentionally or not - is to be innocent of all negative consequences their actions and the choices they were based on, produced.
This would imply that all judgements and choices made are not their own unless they were conscious of them, before-the-fact, rather than after-the-fact.
In their corrupted understanding will means to be concious of the judgements and choices you are making, excluding plants from the category of wilful.
But these cowards imply something more sinister....admitting indirectly their immersion in Abrahamic superstition and nihilistic absolutism. They believe that their every action, and choice, is part of a universal will, preordained and inevitable, for nothing can contradicts god's omnipotent will, and they are but agencies of the divine, no mater what they do or say.
Abrahamism is translated into pseudo-secular forms, renaming all the Biblical concepts - essentially updating the Old and New Testaments to adhere to modernistic lingo.
Absolute order being the secularized renaming of the one-God; Laws of Physics or Nature, being the secularized version of God's word, the Ten Commandments, god's Will...and so on.
The absolution of sin, is given an update by claiming determinism - meaning it is all in accordance with how god intended it to be...and though some hypocritical tale is offered in the bible to explain why god in all his benevolent kindness condemns man to suffering and evil, the secular version has no need for such childish hypocrisies and declares all men as no more than manifestation of universal order....acting and thinking in the only way they could have ever acted and thought.
But, at the same time, they accuse and blame, as if their own convictions are not fully believed by them...but only used to claim innocence and the victim identity.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySun Nov 17, 2019 6:49 pm

Placed within this context the concept of 'choseness' acquires a special meaning.
To be 'chosen' is to be innocent of what follows from this choice - implying that it is all part of a divine will - god's plan.
It's a clever way of projecting responsibility upon the vague, and yet omnipotent, implying an inevitability which nobody can be held accountable for.
A telos.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyTue Nov 19, 2019 1:12 pm

The speech filters on youtube have become very strict for comments, or it's just on my account.
Either way, if it's something which has the wrong combination of words in the sentence it gets shadow-blocked.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyThu Nov 21, 2019 3:23 pm

Hives (constructed, i.e. bees) and 'civilizations', cities.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Nov 22, 2019 6:35 am

Every man that has tasted noble sentiments, understands disdain for ingrates.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Nov 22, 2019 7:52 am



In a decade we can expect a transsexual Victoria's Secret, in drag. But it wont be a secret any-more.
Maybe a children's version will eventually come about when paedophilia finally comes out of the closet and is normalized - Disney swill produce it.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Nov 29, 2019 4:05 pm

Maybe there is a god, but if such a being exists I find it more probable that there is more than one such being.

How strong is this god, how much wine can he drink? - Such are pagan questions.

There is only one god. He is unique and he is my god, not yours. - Abrahamic thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Nov 29, 2019 4:10 pm

If god is defined properly it simply indicates a natural force, which is not completely known and understood.
Nihilist's take the same concept and define it in ways that would make it impossible for there to be a god, and if there would it would contradict existence...for example a singular one-god as an absolute idea is a contradiction of experienced multiplicity.

Nihilist's do the same with meaning....they define it in absolutist ways so that meaning becomes nonsense, because they are afraid of what it would imply if there was meaning and gods independent from their own subjective preferences, that would hold them accountable, or that would force then to adapt or die.
This would bruise their ego, perhaps because they are unable to adapt, or to read the environment, being overly impulsive, unable to judge the circumstances, to know thesmvles and to control themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Nov 29, 2019 4:21 pm

Like the word 'truth'. If you want it to disappear or if you want it to be some divine absolute hanging over mankind's head, then you define it in absolutes.
You define it out of existence.

The 'positive' nihilist can now claim that he holds it and is the knower of its occult essence, because he has no way to prove he knows the absolute truth - a self-aggrandizing method of manipulation - and the pure nihilist can dismiss it as nonsensical - because his own definition made it so - so as to then claim that 'truth' is a subjective concept and is whatever you want it to be.

If you properly define truth as individual perspective of an objective, yet dynamic, reality, then there is truth, and it can be measured by how closely it represents the shared experience of this dynamic - fluctuating interacting - existence.

The same goes for the concept of 'morality'.
The nihilist with define it to either lord it over others as a universal absolute, or to completely dismiss it as a human fabrication to justify his immoral behaviour.  
If defined properly morality is both not a universal and also not subjective or void of meaning.
It is an evolved behaviour that enables cooperative survival and reproductive strategies....so the individual is held accountable to group standards, by behaving in ways that threaten its cohesion and well-being; threaten is cooperative strategies and therefore its very survival.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 5:13 am

Maybe a god in pagan societies was a legendary long-time-ago ancestor.
Did they even have the word god concept as it is understood today?

If an Abrahamic meets a pagan in the old days and the Abrahamic would talk about his god then the pagan would not really understand him at first, what he is even talking about. Then the Abrahamic mentions that god created man, created him and then the pagan would understand that he means someone like an ancestor. The pagan would say, sure, my "gods" are those famous guys and these are their legends and stories. The Abrahamic would then say, but there is only one god, tell me who is the chief of your "gods" because that must be the same as my god.

In that idea, the pagan gods are like generalised, legendary ancestors of a long-time-ago.

The god idea that came later, like monotheism in Egypt, is a more idealised, a more conceptualised, a less personal, a less racial/rooted interpretation of the ancestor worship. It becomes a status symbol to talk of the new monotheistic god. Look at me how I learned all this abstract wisdom from a scripture about/of the one true god. Me special, me BS you long time.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 6:01 am

Anfang wrote:
Maybe a god in pagan societies was a legendary long-time-ago ancestor.
Did they even have the word god concept as it is understood today?

If an Abrahamic meets a pagan in the old days and the Abrahamic would talk about his god then the pagan would not really understand him at first, what he is even talking about. Then the Abrahamic mentions that god created man, created him and then the pagan would understand that he means someone like an ancestor. The pagan would say, sure, my "gods" are those famous guys and these are their legends and stories. The Abrahamic would then say, but there is only one god, tell me who is the chief of your "gods" because that must be the same as my god.

In that idea, the pagan gods are like generalised, legendary ancestors of a long-time-ago.

The god idea that came later, like monotheism in Egypt, is a more idealised, a more conceptualised, a less personal, a less racial/rooted interpretation of the ancestor worship. It becomes a status symbol to talk of the new monotheistic god. Look at me how I learned all this abstract wisdom from a scripture about/of the one true god. Me special, me BS you long time.
The original gods were a family's deceased ancestors. A dead father or mother was a god for the early pagans.
They worshipped their own ancestors, and asked aid and guidance from them.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 9:39 am

A lot of Christians leave out the book of Enoch, which talks about fallen angels, giants and Nephilim (hybridization) etc, watchers could be possibly some sort of atlantean survivors teaching hunter gatherer tribes all over the world who survived the flood and other cataclysmic events, there's so much to speculate

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 9:55 am

Satyr wrote:
Anfang wrote:
Maybe a god in pagan societies was a legendary long-time-ago ancestor.
Did they even have the word god concept as it is understood today?

If an Abrahamic meets a pagan in the old days and the Abrahamic would talk about his god then the pagan would not really understand him at first, what he is even talking about. Then the Abrahamic mentions that god created man, created him and then the pagan would understand that he means someone like an ancestor. The pagan would say, sure, my "gods" are those famous guys and these are their legends and stories. The Abrahamic would then say, but there is only one god, tell me who is the chief of your "gods" because that must be the same as my god.

In that idea, the pagan gods are like generalised, legendary ancestors of a long-time-ago.

The god idea that came later, like monotheism in Egypt, is a more idealised, a more conceptualised, a less personal, a less racial/rooted interpretation of the ancestor worship. It becomes a status symbol to talk of the new monotheistic god. Look at me how I learned all this abstract wisdom from a scripture about/of the one true god. Me special, me BS you long time.
The original gods were a family's deceased ancestors. A dead father or mother was a god for the early pagans.
They worshipped their own ancestors, and asked aid and guidance from them.
Can you link me historical sources your claim is based on? I found no such evidence, reading about pagans(which is a Christian term, like Nazi,), so properly, heathen(in Europe), hellenic(though hellenic is a poor term) etc., all I found was a mix of belief in Gods(literally, not in some profound an scientfic sense of abstracting ones appreciation for nature, but in literal sense of a God in their abstract understanding of it) mixes with a belief in spirits of the dead, ghosts, and an ability to influence their treatment of the alive through sacrifice and ritualism(so it wasn't purely an apprecation of ones family and lineage in a sense we would understand it and not without deep superstition).
So, I might be wrong, but isn't pouring of wine and bread you refer, a literal act of feeding the present ghost? Same with various sacrificial commonalities between the 'heathen' cults and cultures, I conclude they must have believen in a 'god' or a 'god-like' creatures for them to sacrifice precious things they had in their possesions to the Gods, if they understood gods to be pure 'representations' then why the typical, 'spiritual', and religious worship that clearly shows a process of 'buying' something from a god by paying and asking.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 10:07 am

To me, for example, and personally, the act of dancing, must have originated in the belief that the 'deceased' has passed from one world to the next, with a proper life lived, proper rituals and sacrifices made, he was nor permanently living with 'gods', and pagans therefore expressed their happines, I highly doubt that people close to a deceased having the awarness that he has ceased living and there is only dark cosmos beyond, would be expressing happines, irresepctive of their belief that he 'lives' in them through genes(which he doesn't, obviously, a human is a unique combination of genes, totally alien people can be genetically more similar than siblings in extremly rare cases).
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 10:15 am

Anfang wrote:
Maybe a god in pagan societies was a legendary long-time-ago ancestor.
Did they even have the word god concept as it is understood today?

If an Abrahamic meets a pagan in the old days and the Abrahamic would talk about his god then the pagan would not really understand him at first, what he is even talking about. Then the Abrahamic mentions that god created man, created him and then the pagan would understand that he means someone like an ancestor. The pagan would say, sure, my "gods" are those famous guys and these are their legends and stories. The Abrahamic would then say, but there is only one god, tell me who is the chief of your "gods" because that must be the same as my god.

In that idea, the pagan gods are like generalised, legendary ancestors of a long-time-ago.

The god idea that came later, like monotheism in Egypt, is a more idealised, a more conceptualised, a less personal, a less racial/rooted interpretation of the ancestor worship. It becomes a status symbol to talk of the new monotheistic god. Look at me how I learned all this abstract wisdom from a scripture about/of the one true god. Me special, me BS you long time.
Maybe in very early Heathen Europe, though very, very early, prior to any historical records, the earliest records of ancient Greek or European worship involve Gods, although in hierarchies, alike human ones, but nevertheless, with the gods on top being attributed world creation, time creation or manipulation or other super-natural traits.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 10:27 am

polishyouth wrote:

Can you link me historical sources your claim is based on? I found no such evidence, reading about pagans(which is a Christian term, like Nazi,), so properly, heathen(in Europe), hellenic(though hellenic is a poor term) etc., all I found was a mix of belief in Gods(literally, not in some profound an scientfic sense of abstracting ones appreciation for nature, but in literal sense of a God in their abstract understanding of it) mixes with a belief in spirits of the dead, ghosts, and an ability to influence their treatment of the alive through sacrifice and ritualism(so it wasn't purely an apprecation of ones family and lineage in a sense we would understand it and not without deep superstition).
So, I might be wrong, but isn't pouring of wine and bread you refer, a literal act of feeding the present ghost? Same with various sacrificial commonalities between the 'heathen' cults and cultures, I conclude they must have believen in a 'god' or a 'god-like' creatures for them to sacrifice precious things they had in their possesions to the Gods, if they understood gods to be pure 'representations' then why the typical, 'spiritual', and religious worship that clearly shows a process of 'buying' something from a god by paying and asking.
I've read so many books, articles and web-pages that it is difficult to trace the sources of my information.
For me it's more important that the opinion matches my observations, supported by precedent.

But, I do believe Numa Denis Fustel de Coulanges is a good source.

Numa Denis Fustel de Coulanges wrote:
The religion of these primitive ages was exclusively domestic; so also were morals. Religion did not say to a man, showing him another man, That is thy brother. It said to him, That is a stranger; he cannot participate in the religious acts of thy hearth; he cannot approach the tomb of thy family; he has other gods than shine, and cannot unite with thee in a common prayer; thy gods reject his adoration, and regard him as their enemy; he is thy foe also. In this religion of the hearth man never supplicates the divinity in favor of other men; he invokes him only for himself and his. A Greek proverb has remained as a souvenir and a vestige of this ancient isolation of man in prayer. In Plutarch's time they still said to the egotist, “You sacrifice to the hearth.”   This signified, You separate yourself from other citizens; you have no friends; your fellow-men are nothing to you; you live solely for yourself and yours. This proverb pointed to a time when, all religion being around the hearth, the horizon of morals and of affection had not yet passed beyond the narrow circle of the family. It is natural that moral ideas, like religious ideas, should have their commencement and progress, and the god of the primitive generations in this race was very small; by degrees men made him larger; so morals, very narrow and incomplete at first, became insensibly enlarged, until, from stage to stage, they reached the point of proclaiming the duty of love towards all mankind. The point of departure was the family, and it was under the influence of the domestic religion that duties first appeared to the eyes of man.
Numa Denis Fustel de Coulanges wrote:

It will, perhaps, appear strange to find love of home counted among the virtues; but it was so counted among the ancients. This sentiment had a deep and powerful hold upon their minds. Anchises, when he sees Troy in flames, is still unwilling to leave his old home. Ulysses, when countless treasures, and immortality itself, are offered him, wishes only again to see the flame of his own hearth-fire. Let us come down to Cicero's time; it is no longer a poet, but a statesman, who speaks: “Here is my religion, here is my race, here are the traces of my forefathers. I cannot express the charm which I find here, and which penetrates my heart and my senses.” We must place ourselves, in thought, in the midst of these primitive generations to understand how lively and powerful were these sentiments, which were already enfeebled in Cicero's day. For us the house is merely a domicile — a shelter; we leave it, and forget it with little trouble; or, if we are attached to it, this is merely by the force of habit and of recollections; because, for us, religion is not there; our God is the God of the universe, and we find him everywhere. It was entirely different among the ancients; they found their principal divinity within the house: this was their providence, which protected them individually, which heard their prayers, and granted their wishes. Out of the house, man no longer felt the presence of a god; the god of his neighbor was a hostile god. Then a man loved his house as he now loves his church. Thus the religion of the primitive ages was not foreign to the moral development of this part of humanity. Their gods enjoined purity, and forbade the shedding of blood; the notion of justice, if it was not born of this belief, must at least have been fortified by it. These gods belonged in common to all the members of the same family; thus the family was united by a powerful tie, and all its members learned to love and respect each other. These gods lived in the interior of each house; a man loved his house, his home, fixed and durable, which he had received from his ancestors, and which he transmitted to his children as a sanctuary.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptySat Nov 30, 2019 10:40 am

ok, thanks, i will read it.

it wasn't happy dancing, then.

this has little to do with greece, this is a typical English funeral ceremony(very wierd), in Poland, the casket is already in a crypt in a cementary(on the top of the cementary, because many cementaries built before communism were on hills on the side of cities), and the priest does all the prayers for over an hour, with limited space inside so the closest family sits closer and everybody else is outside, then the body is taken to the grave(very rarely by family members and very rarely open), when it is placed, everybody comes up and places something, like a flower or candle, or doesn't place anything but prays for few seconds and bows or kneels, everybody in turns, in a way it is exactly like one would behave saying last good-bye to somebody during his last hours(I did this 2 years ago), I find throwing dirt or whatever they are throwing down on the person wierd(though I understand they are 'burying' him, which is very contrasting, because in Poland, family members never 'handle' the burial, the casket is carried by priest helpers and they also do all the things around the grave).
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Conquest and greed are not mutually inclusive.
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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 6:21 am

With thousands of islands Greece could give as solution to the influx of migrants from Afro-Asia.
It has already been proposed.
Place them on those uninhabited islands.

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PostSubject: Re: Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 Observations and Thoughts too short for their own threads - 2 - Page 29 EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 10:15 am

Swedish women...see below.
Swedish women:
 

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Pussy knows master is having a bad day.

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Satyr wrote:
Swedish women...see below.
Swedish women:
 

Heartbreaking.
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A really nasty collection of primitive faces
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