IMO only the principles themselves matter, I don't care about the justifications others have for those principles. Well, I do care slightly, but I've made peace with the fact that most people will have delusional justifications and mostly I really don't care what the masses think about anything.
As long as people are for blood and soil (and other principles I advocate), I don't care if they justify it by saying "because Yahweh said so", "because Odin said so", or because whatever.
Sure, it would be nice if Europeans stopped being Christians and adopted a more naturalistic way of thinking, but that's extremely unlikely to happen. I've already expressed this view before - most people NEED some comfortable delusion just to survive. Even some pagans, like Varg, believe in certain comfortable fantasies - rebirth being one. Without it, they would kill themselves or go insane.
Looking at the world with no rose-colored glasses is NOT for all. Only a few have the courage and willpower to endure it without going insane or breaking and regressing to comfortable delusions of the past.
I also believe that most people don't have the capacity to understand the deeper underlying reasons for certain principles, so they have to rely on "God said so" as a justification.
Reminds me of a great quote by Strabo:
"The multitude are restrained from vice by the punishments that the gods are said to inflict upon offenders, and by those terrors and threatenings which certain dreadful words and monstrous forms imprint upon their minds. For it is impossible to govern the crowd of women, and all the common rabble, by philosophical reasoning, and lead them to piety, holiness and virtue – but this must be done by superstition, or the fear of the gods, by means of fables and wonders; for the thunder, the aegis, the trident, the torches (of the Furies), the dragons, etc.. are all fables. These things the legislators used as scarecrows to terrify the childish multitude.”
"Christians have never been united against the enemies of Europe"
This is blatantly false. The early Catholics/Romans waged many Crusades against Jews, Arabs, Moslems, and Turks/Asiatics in the Middle East, to prevent their invasions and encroachments into Southern Europe. The secession of Christian power allowed for the fall of Constantinople. Christianity is most responsible for the long length of time that Constantinople faced centuries of attacks and invasion attempts from (Asiatic-Mongrel) Turks.
However this is not to say that Northern Europeans (Pagans) and Southern Europeans (Christian/Romans) were always or sometimes allied. Obviously there was much battles between them (German barbarians and Keltic tribes against Roman imperialism). And even Christianity eventually moved northward into Central and Northern European areas (after the Medieval era).
"If you are a Christian then you are per definition not a Nationalist"
Agreed, the Abrahamic sects (Christianity-Judaism-Islam) are anti-nationalism insofar as their religious servants and followers value religion more than their own particular countries. Therefore the pride of religion is opposed to patriotism (pride of country).
"You're following an immigrant religion (Christianity/Islam)"
Kind of, Judeo-Christian (pop) religion is an out-crop and extension of Greco-Roman history, as imitation of it by Semitic (Middile Eastern) peoples. The Semitic races are those who originally spawn in and around, and claim blood heritage with Israel, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. Yes these are foreigners to racial Europeans. However sources and origin require a deep historical understanding of when and where groups interacted, fought, and conquered each-other.
Rebirth/reincarnation into earth isn't a comfortable fantasy, it is more of a horror in my opinion. Banning all abrahamic religions is only a pipedream, but often pipedreams come true.
Impulso Oscuro
Gender : Posts : 796 Join date : 2013-12-10 Age : 33 Location : Praxis
They are for blood and soil when its convenient to them, not wanting to suffer the consequences for their ideals. If they need comfortable delusions then do they really deserve to survive? Who are we to help save them? They already have their savior, let it guide them back to the desert where they belong.
_________________ Once more, with knowing.
The meek shall inherit the Earth, but the Noble shall take it.
This isn't about saving others, this is about cooperating with them for the sake of survival because in relation to most others (cuckservatives and liberals, who make up the large majority) we have common goals. Maybe it comes easier to me because I'm already used to being an outsider and blending in to advance my own interests whilst remaining detached. If they agree with me about the fundamental principles, what do I care for their justifications... why should I give a shit? I don't need their validation of my beliefs. Yes, I would prefer to be surrounded by people whose beliefs more closely resemble mine, but there's too few of such people.
Nationalist Christians are my allies, at least for the time being.
_________________ "WOMEN BAD, CHURCH GOOD, NIGGERS BAD, WHITE GOOD, EUROPE CUCKED, PATRARCHY GOOD, ARISTOCRACY GOOD, DEMOCRACY BAD" - polishyouth
apaosha Daeva
Gender : Posts : 1846 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 37 Location : Ireland
Religion is used as a wedge issue to create division. Varg is correct, but at the same time christians are the vast majority of European people so co-operation is necessary.
_________________ "I do not exhort you to work but to battle; I do not exhort you to peace but to victory. May your work be a battle; may your peace be a victory." -TSZ
Lyssa Har Har Harr
Gender : Posts : 8965 Join date : 2012-03-01 Location : The Cockpit
Its a part of natural adjustment that religion is a necessity to propagate customs as unaltered as possible to maintain a sense of tradition and social cohesion for shared identity,, just as science is a necessity to release free-thinking radicals to break away from traditions to innovate, to elevate, to create higher standards. Natural the religion ["holy lies"] and natural the science, stronger and stabler our "body" as a whole. Firm body, free spirit.
Any co-operation with any kind of Xt. in the long term will be a compromise. Consider the simple effect of a school and the necessary "adjustment" that requires in the long run along with a multiplying Xt. population, and you have your country ripe for dysgenics. Any collusion with Xt. is surrender to their claim to history that Europe is a Xt. civilization, the myth on which their 'nationalism' is based.
Imagine those like Turd on ILP calling themselves European or White... It is a material and spiritual degradation and will constitute such hijacked historical identity in the future, and before you know it, knowledge and record of your real roots will be erased.
Xt. nationalism is mostly an intra-semitic competition and we should never forget that.
1. I'd make it clear to Christian nationalists that if I ally with them it is in spite of their Christianity, not because of it.
2. It may be possible to convert Christian nationalists, especially if they're already redpilled on the JQ by pointing out that Christianity IS the immigrant, desert religion and that they're worshiping a Jew on a stick. Why trade in one Jew for another?
And speaking of Jews, I've never liked the idea that 'we should not be anti-semitic because that's exactly what Jews want us to do so they can play the victim'. If you can't even hate an enemy that is destroying you, then you've already lost by conceding the moral highground to the enemy and making them untouchable.
_________________ "WOMEN BAD, CHURCH GOOD, NIGGERS BAD, WHITE GOOD, EUROPE CUCKED, PATRARCHY GOOD, ARISTOCRACY GOOD, DEMOCRACY BAD" - polishyouth
Slaughtz
Gender : Posts : 2593 Join date : 2012-04-28 Age : 33 Location : A stone.
Hatred is a primitive and necessary response. It is an indicator of weakness to the degree it affects you, but it is also the point of it, to respond to what it is which affects you. To inspire a more martial and disciplined behavior from oneself.
Anger is a recognition of that which is fundamentally against your very being and what you are. That is, the recognition of a pattern which, if it persists, will destroy what you find is uncompromisingly valuable. The straining on social trust is also a straining against sexual trust, which is creative and artistic in nature (procreation). In the last paragraphs of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I talk about the possibly Judaic origin of this stress.
The response to hatred is to affirm it more so one may perform a way to rise above it, not to reject it out of shame and then let it become resentment.
apaosha Daeva
Gender : Posts : 1846 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 37 Location : Ireland
Varg's view on civilization reminds me of Satyr's view on feminization. A dog is a domesticated wolf, civilized, institutionalized, feminized.
_________________ "I do not exhort you to work but to battle; I do not exhort you to peace but to victory. May your work be a battle; may your peace be a victory." -TSZ
Lyssa Har Har Harr
Gender : Posts : 8965 Join date : 2012-03-01 Location : The Cockpit
Some possible problems that can come from accepting Christianity as a valid WN religion:
1. It makes us an easy target for legitimate intellectual attacks.
If one makes religion a basis for some of their principles, they'd be implying that invalidating the religion would also invalidate the principle. Say the principle is that whites should have above replacement birth-rates and this is supported by some passage from the bible about God saying how humans should populate the earth and stuff. First of all, here we already see how the bible is unsuitable for white nationalism - it speaks of humans, not whites. This makes it prone to humanist interpretations. Second, if the only reason whites should have above replacement birth-rates is that God said so, as this suggests, then if you prove there is no good reason to believe in God it would also mean there is no good reason for whites to have above replacement birth-rates. Or you would have to say that God isn't necessary for us to justify that, in which case we agree religion is just redundant.
If we had naturalism/realism as a basis for our views instead, such legitimate attacks would be impossible and we could just execute anybody who disagrees without worrying that we're shutting up relevant criticism.
2. The cuckoldry is inherent in Christianity.
The story about Abraham sacrificing his own son for the sake of God is the story of ultimate cuckoldry and treason of one's own blood.
What comes first, Christians? Blood, aka white nationalism, or religion? The way I see it, they should never have been separated in the first place. A religion should serve as a set of memetic constructs helping promote the behavior required to protect the group's blood (genes), not go contrary to it.
In other words, my blood is my religion. Nah, I'm an atheist, but that sounds kinda cool.
Oh, and also all the talk about peace and loving your enemies seems like extremely ineffective and subversive bullshit. I've even read that Christianity was devised by the Jews to destroy Rome. I think Rome was fucked before Christianity arrived, but Cuckstianity certainly didn't help and probably quickened the spread of degeneration and weakness.
"love your enemy" How could anybody ever think this nonsense isn't subversive cuckoldry?
3. The contradictions in the bible.
Similar to 1, only this is extremely embarrassing because even if you agree the bible is entirely true and God exists, what do you do with the glaring contradictions? Ignore them? Cherry pick?
4. Dangerous misconceptions about human nature.
The ideas of male and female celibacy/chastity are outright delusional. It requires strong and unnecessary repression for seemingly no real purpose. And then when priests can't hold it in anymore, they go ahead and rape little kids.
Sexuality needs to be controlled, yes, and virginity is certainly an admirable thing (in women), but let's not also deny that everybody likes fucking.
My views on sex are similar to my views on eating. It is a primitive activity evolved for the purpose of self-preservation, also evolved to be pleasurable to give humans psychological incentives to participate in it. It should be enjoyed in healthy amounts and a healthy manner. Obsessing over it is unhealthy. Treating it as if it is more than what it is is unhealthy and typically a sign of low intelligence. Making of it something scarce and hard to obtain only causes people to kill each other for it. And there's no need to bother others about your habits regarding it - how often you do it, when, where, and so on.
5. When science/reality and religion contradict (and they do and will), people may choose religion.
Depending on which subject the contradiction occurs, this may have consequences of great importance for the memetic makeup of the group and thus the long-term genetic make-up of the group.
Then again, we need something to control behavior in the average man to prevent him from degeneracy, and reasoning won't do it. Threats of violence might work, but at best people would be obedient but miserable and spiritually empty. They'd need something to fill that mental void and justify what they believe, and philosophy, real philosophy, is above most people's intellectual level.
Some people would probably still be satisfied just being thoughtless brutes merely acting on their instincts without justification, and hey, at least that's better than cuckoldry and faggotry.
Then there's the possibility of using shallow diversions, like bread and circus, to sway public opinion and keep the masses happy and content.
Overall, I still maintain that Christianity (and religion in general) are potentially destructive in the long run. Too many weaknesses for cucks and subversives to prey upon and exploit.
Anfang
Gender : Posts : 3989 Join date : 2013-01-23 Age : 40 Location : Castra Alpine Grug
WN does not need to accept Christianity. Emerging Christian congregations and sects need to accept WN to remain relevant.
Just like they accepted homosexuals. The Christian religion says explicitly for Christians to 'adapt' to the culture they enter to convert. They do not treat cultures respectably. One culture is the same as any other, to them.
Anfang
Gender : Posts : 3989 Join date : 2013-01-23 Age : 40 Location : Castra Alpine Grug
Christianity is not concerned with the preservation of a people. It wants to spread the word of god. The feel-good message of paradise on Earth.
I think that many people who look favourable at Christianity within the alt-right circles do so because of the ‘family’ element. They associate their own families to be functional because of the Christian faith and to some extent that’s true. Women look for somebody to tell them what is the good and you need a community and a leadership which tells them what this good is.
But at the same time, Christianity has spread weakness among its flock, it has done its part to create the conditions of modernity. The good was not good. Well, it’s good for the liars, it’s after all based on lies.
Within the alt-right you will find certain authors who pretty much exclusively focus on Christianity. That’s a red flag for me. Why are those people not talking inside some Christian community with their fellow Christians, trying to facilitate some change in their congregations or sects or whatever? Why go to the alt-right to talk about Christianity all the time?
It’s the muh Western Civilisation = Christianity (or the neocon. variant = Judeo-Christianity) meme.
The environment is full with Christianity/Liberalism/Marxism. If the alt-right is bringing something to the table then it must be those elements which are missing in the social environment.
When the left attacks Christianity, that's a proxy for attacking Europeans, mainly in America, where the conservative Christians are apparently having more children than average Whites in America.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37106 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
These are illusions of popular history which a successful religion must promote: Evil men never prosper; only the brave deserve the fair; honesty is the best policy; actions speak louder than words; virtue always triumphs; a good deed is its own reward; any bad human can be reformed; religious talismans protect one from demon possession; only females understand the ancient mysteries; the rich are doomed to unhappiness . . .
Children of Dune (From the Instruction Manual: Missionaria Protectiva)
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37106 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
All religions are erected on the ground of fear. Gales, thunder, storms . . . are the cause of this fear. Human beings, who felt impotent in the face of such natural events, sought refuge in beings who were stronger than themselves. Only later did ambitious men, artful politicians and philosophers begin to take advantage of the people's gullibility. For this purpose they invented a multitude of equally fantastic and cruel gods, who served no other purpose than to consolidate and maintain their power over people. In this way various cult forms arose that ultimately aimed only at stamping a kind of transcendental legality on an existing social order. . . . The basis of all cult forms consisted in the sacrifice the individual had to make for the well-being of the community. . . . So it is no wonder that, in the name of God, ... the great majority of human beings are oppressed by a small group of people who have made religious fear into an effective ally.
In the perceptions of the senses consciousness of the object is distinguishable from consciousness of self; but in religion, consciousness of the object and self-consciousness coincide. The object of the senses is out of man, the religious object is within him, and therefore as little forsakes him as his self-consciousness or his conscience; it is the intimate, the closest object. “God,” says Augustine, for example, “is nearer, more related to us, and therefore more easily known by us, than sensible, corporeal things.” The object of the senses is in itself indifferent—independent of the disposition or of the judgment; but the object of religion is a selected object; the most excellent, the first, the supreme being; it essentially presupposes a critical judgment, a discrimination between the divine and the non-divine, between that which is worthy of adoration and that which is not worthy.8 And here may be applied, without any limitation, the proposition: the object of any subject is nothing else than the subject’s own nature taken objectively. Such as are a man’s thoughts and dispositions, such is his God; so much worth as a man has, so much and no more has his God. Consciousness of God is self-consciousness, knowledge of God is self-knowledge. By his God thou knowest the man, and by the man his God; the two are identical. Whatever is God to a man, that is his heart and soul; and conversely, God is the manifested inward nature, the expressed self of a man,—religion the solemn unveiling of a man’s hidden treasures, the revelation of his intimate thoughts, the open confession of his love-secrets.
But when religion—consciousness of God—is designated as the self-consciousness of man, this is not to be understood as affirming that the religious man is directly aware of this identity; for, on the contrary, ignorance of it is fundamental to the peculiar nature of religion.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37106 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Religion - especially Abrahamism - expands the idea of identity - self - by lowering the lowest-commno-denominator of humans, then organisms, then life, then patterns/order. Order itself- the concept - becomes god., incliding everything eprcived. But existence is not entirely ordered, and so the incomprehensible chaos, is 'evil'.
In Abrahamism their one-god represents humanity - except for the Jews where it represents their collective, Judaism as the godhead, and infidels the body that will be sacrificed when they complete their divine mission to make the cosmos noetic and absolute. Islam wants to convert, assimilate humanity into the divine - human - collective. In Christianity humanity is already saved from the body, but only the few chosen can admit it, know it, accept it - this is what accepting god/Jesus into your heart means - a collective of saved.
The term 'god' refers to patterned energies that can be perceived and processed by minds - become noetic, abstract.
