Interesting exchange I had on this video: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Khat wrote:
I had many discussions with guys saying that fucking traps isn't gay. Some outright say that dominating is the only masculine trait which mean that having sex with men isn't gay as long as your are the one not being dominated. Fucking delusional. If you want to fuck men, just say so. These guy should stop using deflections.
There is some truth in that it is masculine to dominate and it is feminine to be dominated.
I would say men who penetretate (dominate) other men are more masculine (insofar as they don't get penetrated themselves) than men who get penetrated (dominated) by women.
Quote :
What ? So men who fuck other men are masculine as long as they don't get pegged in the ass ?
Quote :
So if a woman surprises you with a gun to your head and tells you to get down or she`ll shoot that makes her masculine and you feminine? No. it just means she has a gun and you don`t. If you`re male you are masculine and if you`re female you are feminine, even if the character traits may appear to switch sometimes.
Khat, yes. Penetrating is masculine, being penetrated is feminine.
Han, tbh, I'd rather die than just do whatever a woman tells me to do just cause she has a gun. There are worse things than dying.
In reality there are masculine traits and behaviors and feminine traits and behaviors. Say an average man is 70% masculine, 30% feminine, while average woman is the other way around. Very few women will end up being more masculine than even average men, none will be more masculine than the high-end men, and the other way around. This is just biology.
What confuses things is that with modern technology men and women can alter their biological makeup to the point that a man can end up having more feminine traits than the average woman so that he is more feminine in everything except the fact that he has a dick, and even this can be "fixed". Same for women, testosterone and steroids can make a woman stronger and more masculine than the average male. Every seen bodybuilding women who use these supplements? It's not only their muscles that change, their entire body including the jaw begins taking on more masculine characteristics.
Quote :
Qua Sar It sounded like you were saying that having gay sex with feminine men is considerd masculine as long as you penetrate your partner. I am pointing out that it's still gay to have sex with traps, because they still are biological male. They may be more feminine and have less testosterone but that doesn't change their dna. What is so hard to understand about this ?
Yeah, I stand by what I said. Gay sex where you penetrate makes you more masculine than "hetero" sex where you are penetrated by a woman.
It is masculine to penetrate, it is feminine to be penetrated. It's that simple.
Quote :
Qua Sar So you agree that having sex with men is masculine as long as you penetrate, basically saying that having gay sex where you are the one who is penetrating is a masculine trait ? Do you even understand your own logic or not ? You can't boil down masculinity as just being the one penetrating.
It doesn't work like that.
I just want to note, the healthy ideal is that the male penetrates a female, and a female is penetrated by a male.
We're talking about deviancy (gay sex) here. Just because something is deviant doesn't make it non-masculine or non-feminine however.
Man A has sex with plenty of women whom he penetrates, then he is imprisoned for 20 years and during that time, he eventually gets thirsty enough and penetrates a feminine looking guy. After getting out of jail he continues only having sex with women whom he penetrates.
Man B also has sex with women, but he never penetrates them - instead, he prefers always to be the penetrated one. Also, the kind of women he prefers to penetrate him are those who look like "Buck Angel" (google it, still XX chromosome mate), and the women who penetrate him all do it with a cut-off male penis surgically attached to their body.
Which man is more masculine? Do you get my point about 1) Why masculinity/femininity as traits are more important than chromosomes and 2) Why penetrating is masculine and getting penetrated is feminine?
Quote :
Mate, having sex with a feminine man and letting a women peg you isn't the same. Yes letting a women peg you could be considerd less masculine, but pegging a feminine man is gay and not a masculine trait. Again masculinity is more than dominating and testosterone. You are trying to paint having gay sex as a masculine trait if you are the one dominating the guy. Do you get my point ?
Khat, I'm fully aware of your point and still stand by what I said.
And I believe my thought experiment with men A and B proves I'm right.
Masculinity is essentially about dominating on a behavioral level, a masculine body on a physical level and testosterone on a biological level. Notice they're all interconnected - in order to dominate one needs a strong body, to have a strong body one needs testosterone, and to have testosterone naturally one needs XY chromosomes (which technology/artifice can bypass). However none of this is magical, which is why technology can cause so much confusion by altering the biology which in turn alters physicality and behavior. So no, it really isn't about much more than domination and testosterone.
The thing is, masculinity is about penetrating WOMEN but more fundamentally, it is about penetrating. To attempt to assign either "masculinity" or "femininity" to an act of penetrating men as a man deviates from the ultimate purpose both evolved for, but I still maintain it is more similar to masculinity, and getting pegged is more similar to femininity because of the penetration thing. That's my final.
A little off topic, but sexual reproduction could have come about as an extension of eating, or cannibalism, making the consuming organism an aggressive one.
Doesn't make much sense. Eating is about consuming energy. Sexual reproduction is about expunging accumulated excess energies.
Hunger, which causes us to eat, is the body's way of communicating its biological needs to our psyche. If you are truly hungry, starving, your sexual drive will be lower and your mind/body will be occupied with obtaining food. Same with water.
Healthy sex drive is only possible if other bodily needs are successfully satiated and the body has accumulated enough excess energies so that it can afford to expend them on producing sperm and the physical act of sex.
-----
Masculinity in humans is about imposing one's order over a portion of space (territory) and the resources it contains. Breaching into the territory of another, PENETRATING IT, is considered a masculine, aggressive act. This is so in humans as well as many territorial animals, such as cats. Accepting the penetration of an other into your own territory, submitting to it, is a feminine act done out of weakness and/or cowardice. A male that accepts another male into his territory who promotes an ordering contrary to its own is being submissive, emasculated.
Cuckoldry - allowing another male in your home to use your resource (female) is one of the ultimate acts of emasculation. The same goes for political cuckoldry, which is multiculturalism - allowing people with drastically different genes and memes to come into your country (territory), consume your resources (including females) and impose their own will and advocate for their own interests.
_________________ "WOMEN BAD, CHURCH GOOD, NIGGERS BAD, WHITE GOOD, EUROPE CUCKED, PATRARCHY GOOD, ARISTOCRACY GOOD, DEMOCRACY BAD" - polishyouth
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
It's based on something I have said about sex being an evolution of consuming - assimilating energies, i.e. eating, drinking. One as an expression of need, based on lack, producing the other which is a need based on excess. Lack, is successfully satiated, resulting in excess, or overflowing, also associated with creativity. Art and philosophy being a product of excess, or leisure (excess time), curiosity, (excess mental energies), and pro-creativity, (excess physical energies) also producing growth. The similarities in the sexual act are striking: Biting, kissing, originally a passing of food from mother to child, licking, sucking etc. The sexually frustrated tend to deal with excess energies by overeating - numbing themselves.
Also, sex is associate with the attainment and control of resources - male proving his worth, and the female selecting the optimal mate. Female desire is about pulling into her the desirable male - engulfing him, trying to incorporate his essence into herself.
I had argued that heterosexual reproduction must be an adaptation of gathering and assimilating nutrients, because feeding precedes the emergence of heterosexual reproduction, and because of the similarities between copulating and eating.
The first thing that comes to mind[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Are the XX chromosomes.
"Babe, these XX chromosomes are so hot, I wanna motorboat them puppies" "Sweets if I could choose a way to die it would be to get suffocated by them XX chromosomes"
EDIT: Or indeed, I don't imagine women talk about how big and thick some man's XY chromosomes are.
I've heard that gay (male homosexuality) is 4 times as great as lesbianism 9female homosexuality). The male homosexual is effete, but has a hyper-sexual drive. Evolutionary psychologists believes this is to compensate for their sexual dysfunction. Of, so called gay men, only a fraction are exclusively homosexual. Most as bisexual.
Homosexuality must offer some advantage, otherwise it would not persist in time. Some possible advantages: -Taking self out of the sperm wars, and becoming contributors to family genes. -Hyper-sexuality, and recovery time between copulation instances. -Less threatening demeanour to females - beta male strategy. -Charm.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Another symptom of cultural decline is the proliferation of drug use, the fashion of self-numbing. A dying animal goes into a state self-induced coma to endure the process of dying.
The brain protects itself from the body's trauma. Memories are lost, of events that ti cannot tolerate, without going mad. Finding chemical happiness, because their lives are unhappy, seeking spiritual insights because they are void of all spiritual connections, repeating scripture, religious or not, to fill in their empty of content mind.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Slaughtz
Gender : Posts : 2593 Join date : 2012-04-28 Age : 33 Location : A stone.
Sex is violent: that's not a woman being murdered in the other room.
The same sounds which we associate with pain become signals of pleasure. The same way laughter can be mistaken for sobbing. Both are the result of what, in different circumstances, would result in pain.
For the laugh, it is a quicker succession of sob-like exhales which make the primate-like laughs different from its cries, though when the laughing becomes too powerful it will double over and be unable to interrupt it with inhales that distinguishes it from a cry of pain.
For a sexual encounter, the expressive behavior is hardly different, except to substitute sobbing with cries of pain.
Impulso Oscuro
Gender : Posts : 796 Join date : 2013-12-10 Age : 32 Location : Praxis
The thing is, masculinity is about penetrating WOMEN but more fundamentally, it is about penetrating. To attempt to assign either "masculinity" or "femininity" to an act of penetrating men as a man deviates from the ultimate purpose both evolved for, but I still maintain it is more similar to masculinity, and getting pegged is more similar to femininity because of the penetration thing. That's my final.
Masculinity is also a representation of resistance to entropy, so is not a penetrating homosexual less resistant to entropy than a man who has offspring, even the modern meathead "Chad" falls under this category as most of these types don't wish to have any children despite their proclivity towards penetration.
When I imagine a man being "penetrated" sexually, I don't imagine his partner wearing a strap-on, but a woman who is more sexually aggressive than the man.
And what of mental penetration? If a man mentally penetrates a woman but fails to penetrate her physically, then is this still masculine?
_________________ Once more, with knowing.
The meek shall inherit the Earth, but the Noble shall take it.
Sits down, sips on a cup of coffee to think about what to say. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
aeon wrote:
Or is it "masculine" to insert your penis into everything? Is it "feminine" to have standards, principles, and restraint/discrimination?
Will a more "masculine" man fuck everybody and everything or will he have standards?
A hypermasculine man has no standards, is obsessed with sports on tv, or cRap music, has no taste, has no culture, does not appreciate higher things like Whole Foods, instead he appreciates Junk foods.
It is feminine to have standards, principles and restraint. Hypermasculines either have no feminine side, or are constantly trying to ignore and suppress their feminine side.
I have been thinking about this topic for a few days. What is universally masculine, what is universally feminine? I think about the hot female cop who is hot and feminine, but likes guns and fighting.
I think I have narrowed down to what is distinctly feminine and masculine. Psychologically, males are a straight arrow, moving forward. Thus insults don't bother them too much. Psychologically, females loop. Their thoughts loop over and over. If you insult her she will never forget it. If you sexually harass her the loop will feedback on itself, and she will lose her mind, it will fester like the jester. This is why males slap each other on the ass and don't care, but if a female gets slapped on the ass she will lose her mind and sue you. Thus males can be represented as an arrow, and woman can represented as a circle.
Male/female sexuality. Sexuality of males and females is this. The female sexual reflex is relaxation, and eating and engulfing. Enjoying penetration. Smiling. The male sexual reflex is clenching ones muscles, getting serious. Serious expression. Male sexuality is a proclamation. Here is an example of what a Proclamation is. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (It is a picture of Trixie, trixie is somewhat androgynous and has masculine and feminine qualities.) Think of a villiage crazy who proclaims "By Zeus the sky is falling by tommorow at sunlight! Repent! Repent!" That is an example of what a proclamation means, trollish and goofy.
autsider wrote:
Yeah, I stand by what I said. Gay sex where you penetrate makes you more masculine than "hetero" sex where you are penetrated by a woman.
Depends. Now you make an interesting point and this is where it gets confusing. Normally I don't like talking about gay sex but I want to get to the truth.
I think point raises an interesting question of, what exactly is masculinity and feminity? If a she-demon with a strapon, fucks a masculine man, and while she does it she is smiling like a school-girl, is the she-demon feminine or masculine? It's hard for me to say, it seems she has a quality which transcends our current definitions. But on the other hand, it is hard to say which is more feminine, a masculine man fucking a masculine man, or a man being fucked by a strapon. I would say the latter is feminine, but the other is perhaps somewhat unclassifiable, and a bit disgusting.
autsider wrote:
Han, tbh, I'd rather die than just do whatever a woman tells me to do just cause she has a gun. There are worse things than dying.
Again, depends. If she asks for all the money in your wallet, and you have only 5 dollars, I say just give her the 5 dollars.
Slaughtz
Gender : Posts : 2593 Join date : 2012-04-28 Age : 33 Location : A stone.
Sex is violent: that's not a woman being murdered in the other room.
The same sounds which we associate with pain become signals of pleasure. The same way laughter can be mistaken for sobbing. Both are the result of what, in different circumstances, would result in pain.
For the laugh, it is a quicker succession of sob-like exhales which make the primate-like laughs different from its cries, though when the laughing becomes too powerful it will double over and be unable to interrupt it with inhales that distinguishes it from a cry of pain.
For a sexual encounter, the expressive behavior is hardly different, except to substitute sobbing with cries of pain.
The Oedipal and Electra complex take on erotic meanings. If crying is erotic.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
The nature of females, after discovering their sexual power and value (adolescence and beyond), is to seduce males and "spread their love around". Women evaluate a selection of some men, of higher value, and want to give their sexual loyalty over to this small selection. Some women are more willing to include larger numbers of men, up to the point of prostitution and outright changing sex for money.
Civilization has curtailed female sexual power in numerous ways, but the primary one is through Abrahamism and popular religion, Christianity for example, which has applied great shame and punishment to promiscuous women. During certain points in history, and in different countries, female promiscuity is either rewarded or punished. However female promiscuity has a natural function. The more female promiscuity there is in a society, arguably, male-to-male competition is reduced. If more men, members of a society, are receiving sex, then they are less willing to compete against each other, since male sexual desire is sated.
When females are not promiscuous, for whatever reasons (and the reasons are many), the male competition because exasperated and males take greater risks to harm (or kill) each other, in order to receive female sexual favors.
Thus in modern society, the increase of female promsicuity (of the 70s counter-culture and liberal-leftist promotion) has led to a sedated and 'feminine' generation of males. Males are less willing to compete. Because modern females are slutty, easy, and loose (of lower value as well). Females who are harder to attain, prudent, have few or no sexual partners, are of higher value. Higher value females (marking nobility) are always highest in demand. Males want to 'score' the harder to obtain females.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Feminization is a reversion, a degradation, degeneracy. It implies a turning inward, becoming esoteric, occult, secretive, inter-subjective.
Feminization in relation to philosophy, which is the discipline that concerns itself with world, and is outwards looking, is the conversion of philosophy to psychology. World = Humanity. Subjective = Objective. This is due to the infection by the memetic virus that is infecting Indo-European (Aryan) culture. rotting the physical, the flesh, is a metaphor for this internalization or rejection of the apparent, the phenomenon, and the immersion into the self, into the subjective, noetic. Zombification. Even its hunger is a private affair, relating only vaguely to an external source of nourishment. Need/Suffering is a reminder that the world still exists, even when you dream. You cannot escape the world by burying yourself inward; you cannot make the objective world go away by announcing your subjective interpretations as more real than the real.
Philosophy uses symbols, language, to connect mind with world - ideal with the real. Its infection makes it turn inward. Language is now expressing a reaction to a world, that is forced into a peripheral significance, and replaced with a private alternate reality. But, like with zombies, the real cannot be ignored....need/suffering is how it intrudes into human narcosis, and idealism.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Masculinity/Femininity is an example of codependent specialization of functionality. Reproduction is the function, and the allocation of traits and their potentials is how codependency sacrifices the potentials of some organs so as to enhance those of others.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Eros, like every other concept represented using Hellenic words, has been associated by Moderns, and cultivated by all Nihilists, with sex, is a word that is now associated with Hellenism - the erotic relationship between adult male and prepubescent boy. This relationship was never sexual, and this is proven by the attitude towards males that enjoyed being penetrated by other males and their attitude towards homosexuals and political social status.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
At the deepest level the androgynous or hermaphroditic ideal of the unconscious reflects the aspiration of the human body to overcome the dualisms which are its neurosis, ultimately to reunify Eros and the death instinct. The dualism of masculine-feminine is merely the transposition into genital terms of the dualism of activity and passivity; and activity and passivity represent unstable fusions of Eros and Death at war with each other. Thus Freud identifies masculinity with aggressiveness and femininity with masochism. In Freud's earlier writings, before he discovered the bisexual disposition in the Oedipus complex, and in line with his early notion that love is essentially possessive (‘object-choice’), the libido is assumed to be essentially active and masculine. In his later writings the libido is viewed as essentially bisexual, ‘a single libido, though its aims, i.e., its modes of gratification, are both active and passive.’ But activity and passivity are also derivatives of the death instinct. Thus Eros contains in itself the possibility of reunification with its instinctual opposite, and it strives toward that goal. Freud, in Beyond the Pleasure Principle, used the myth of the formation of mankind by bisection of an originally bisexual creature to suggest that Eros, in seeking ever wider unification, might be seeking to reinstate a lost condition of primal unity.
Duality evolves a singular objective. Polytheism becomes Monotheism. Salvation through a return to an imagined whole that never was or can ever be.
Unity is a death wish - escape the world's multiplicities in the mind's constructed singularities.
Brown, Norman wrote:
The inevitable legacy of the Oedipal project is the radical deformation of the human ego and the human body. The castration complex finally enforces the separation of the child's body from the mother's body, but traumatically, so that individuality, a true synthesis of Eros and Death, is never attained. Human narcissism, still burdened with the causa sui project, still seeks an unreal independence and thus gets morbidly involuted. The castration complex establishes as absolute the dualism of the self and the other, the dualism which infantile narcissism had sought to overcome. The child has to make a choice between love of self and love of the other: according to Freud, the boy's self-love or narcissism turns him away from his mother. But the self so loved is fraudulent: self-love replaces parental love, but, according to Freud, only at the cost of splitting the ego into parent and child. Through the institution of the super-ego the parents are internalized and man finally succeeds in becoming father of himself, but at the cost of becoming his own child and keeping his ego infantile. At the same time human aggression, inseparable from the causa sui project, is likewise internalized, not only in the mutual warfare between ego and superego, which must perpetuate the war between parent and child, but also in that general war between the ego and the body which is repression and which sustains the desexualisation of the Oedipal project. The morbid death instinct, already transformed into a principle of denial, blossoms after the castration complex into a principle of self-denial and denial of one's own body. Involuted Eros and involuted aggression constitute the ‘autonomous self’ or what passes for individuality in the human species.
Róheim wrote:
The process of individualization is naturally built up by or based on hostile trends directed against the mother. . . . However, just because of the dual-unity matrix from which the differentiation takes its starting point, these aggressions are followed by guilt, by reparations, or re-identification and then again by renewed aggression.
Once again it appears that psychoanalysis' closest allies are in the religious tradition. The same harsh judgment on human individuality is contained in the doctrine of original sin.
Ophism's was also heavily influenced by eastern spiritualism. Eastern mystics roamed the ancient Greek agoras, and were looked down upon by thinkers like Aristotle and Plato. Even back then were there eastern mystics, peddling their superstitions to women and mediocre minds in cities.
Cross contamination did not begin with Rome and its contact with Judaism. Semites existed before there was Judaism, just as Greeks existed before there was Christianity. Not all Semites became Jews, and not all Jews are Semites. Most converted to Islam, or remain Zoroastrians, adopting it when they came in contact with the Persians.
Charlatans dress their superstitions in scientific jargon, when they wish to conceal its true beliefs, or they may expose its mysticism through mythological references that really say nothing of any use other than as a method of manipulation and exploitation of human existential anxieties. Mythological references have the benefit of mesmerizing feeble minds with their mysterious references, and they can easily claim to not be saying what they are accused of saying; allegories can be interpreted in multiple ways.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 36827 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Finally: woman! One-half of mankind is weak, typically sick, changeable, inconstant... she needs a religion of weakness that glorifies being weak, loving, and being humble as divine: or better, she makes the strong weak – she rules when she succeeds in overcoming the strong... Woman has always conspired with the types of decadence, the priests, against the "powerful,” the "strong,” the men.
And so we find the roots of how Judaism differs from Hellenism.
Nietzsche wrote:
All women are subtle in exaggerating their weaknesses; they are inventive when it comes to weaknesses in order to appear as utterly fragile ornaments who are hurt even by a speck of dust. Their existence is supposed to make men feel clumsy, and guilty on that score. Thus they defend themselves against the strong and "the law of the jungle."
Feminism has contributed to increasing divorce rates. Monogamy must be enforced authoritarian stringency which goes against modern/postmodern sensitivities and cultivated naïve delusions concerning human nature and its presumed absence. Women, like many most men, were convinced that when you released man from cultural restrictions some kind of utopian stare would spontaneously, almost magically, emerge. A state where all found love, or their own unique “soul mates”, and all would then “live happily ever after”. What occurred was that women were “liberated” from male reasoning, i.e., paternalism, reverting to their primal impulsive behaviours, suddenly realizing most of them were attracted to the same kind of male – and there weren’t enough of them to go around, so most were left hanging, condemned to a life of spinsterhood – cats included. Instead of “happily ever after” women found themselves living a “life of miserable loneliness”, unleashing their instinctual neurosis when they could not and did not experience motherhood.
*We are interested in what we are good at; and we become better at what we are interested in.
*What would be the point of sexual specialization if focused energies didn't produce physical and mental differences in potential? What would be the reason to evolve two distinct sexes?
*The idea that all differences are physical and not mental is part of this Abrahamic deification of the human mind. It uses the same hypocritical, convoluted reasoning that claims that race is only physical appearance - skin pigmentation - and refers to no other difference. What is implied in that evolution only affects the body and not the mind - so how did species evolve by diverging from common ancestry; how did intelligence evolve if natural selection only selects for physical traits? If social engineering can "correct" what nature has produced - because nature is unfair and fascistic - then why cannot species be similarly "corrected"? Here social engineering - eugenics - is proposed as a method of "healing" what some claim to be a product of eugenics.
You know how power is about overcoming resistance - path-of-more-resistance? Freedom determining how much resistance you can overcome, manifesting in how many options you can choose from. Well, this is crucial in feminine/masculine dynamics. Females use it to test a male's worthiness - putting up resistance for him to overcome - and a male uses it to gauge a female's resistance - to ensure his exclusivity.