The Dance

A terrible risk.

The buyer becomes seduced by the seller's promise. He buys and buys, thinking he can afford it and someone else will pay if things go wrong, then the shit hits the fan and who do thye blame?
The one that sold them the dream they wanted to buy; the one that manipulated their stupidity.

This is how weaklings accuse others for what they are responsible for and blame others for their own weak judgment.

When in buildings one first explores all avenues of escape.
Walls can be terrifying.

4m6in3 wrote:

Keynes and Hayek were both great minds. But I'm more with Keynes because he was more pragmatic.

Alex wrote:

Keynes and Hayek were both great minds. But I'm more with Keynes because he was more pragmatic.

Personally, my thoughts are in line with Murray Rothbard. He used Mises and Hayek as a foundation but created his own theories.

Keynesian economics just doesn't work. It's been proven unworkable time and time again. The new Keynesian follows the same trend.

Quote :

Keynes's new economics, like that "underworld" tradition, is nothing but a tissue of logical falsehoods reached by means of obscure jargon, shifting definitions, and logical inconsistencies intended to establish a statist, anti-free-market economic system. ---Hans-Hermann Hoppep

Good read... The Misesian Case against Keynes

As I pointed out in another thread, it doesn't matter how intelligent you're, or if the system is sensible, all it takes is an articulate speaker to convince the masses that shit is beneficial and beautiful.

Well I'm not much into the details of economics but I understand systems sufficiently to come to certain conclusions.

I've mentioned them before but here they are in brief:

1- The system tends towards its own equilibrium and so it promotes internally, in relation to its parts (known), and externally, in relation to its antagonists (unknown), that conditions to produce it.

2- Equilibrium is never achieved as the world is in flux and (inter)activity is perpetually unbalancing the system and its environmental conditions, requiring a constant struggle and because entropy is increasing, which means that the (inter)actions tend towards imbalance.

3- To promote balance internally, so as to better promote it internally, the system minimizes each part's independence and increases its codependency - it promotes specialization.

4- An increase in codependency makes the particular individual within the system, one of its parts, less capable of functioning on its own. The system takes on parenting duties.

5- The individual thusly protected tends towards increasing adolescent behavior which, if it is not overly disruptive to the system is not inhibited. Actually adolescent behavior is beneficial to the system as this makes individuals less likely to rebel or to think outside the box or to confront authority or to question the rules and the ideals it now considered self-evident.

6- Increasing sheltering produces ennui, as when danger decreases boredom increases and when danger increases boredom decreases. The psychological states are inversely proportional to each other, in classic Schopenhauernean cosmology.

7- This also produces a dumbing-down where the individual becomes more and more impressionable, affected by peer pressure, his/her sense of self-worth becoming increasingly a product of social estimation of his/her value: productive and/or consuming potency.

8- The individual being so protected also takes this protection for granted. it feels safe, it considers its "rights" inalienable, its thinks its life is valuable beyond the scope of human affairs.
It begins feeling indestructible, childishly arrogant, transcendentally special, entitled.
The only sense of vulnerability the individual has is in reference to its place within the system: its status, how much it is appreciated and how useful it is towards the communal values and systemic interests - these a product of the system's self-maintenance and (inter)action with other systems - otherness.

9- the individual is now stunted, retarded, kept in a perpetual state of infancy, like a domesticated animal. It is taken care of, told what to do and how to do it; regimented as the army does increasing the sensation of community and family, as the state now is the parent, the alpha-male, and all the citizenry are the children, and/or the females.
At this point natural distinction of sex and race are counterproductive and so the system promotes their eradication. The only distinction allowed and promoted is that derived from the system itself, as a product of loyalty and service and production/consumption.

10- Now the individual must be protected not only from the alien otherness outside the system's purview but also from the others within the system , in other words form itself, as now identity is tied to this communal "I".
It is not even allowed to use its own judgment and anyone taking advantage of its retardation, as there is no internal equilibrium and so there still remain qualitative distinctions within the system.
Morality enters to prevent one member from taking advantage of another.

11- At this point absurdity commences because the more retarded majority must be protected from the very rules of friendly competition which the system maintains internally so as to promote its own well-being.
This because sheltering tends to lower the average when a least common denominator is always sought after.
Mediocrity not only increases but is continually downgraded. The system is now in decay - decadence.

12- As the system internally promotes equality, or protects the weakest so as to prevent internal imbalances, this tends to lower the quality of its parts, in turn lowering its overall power in relation to the others.
This can be called old age, when it comes to individual organisms, or decline, when it comes to abstract unities like states or countries or nations, and it is a stage all eventually finally succumb to.

How all this manifests itself real-time and socially and psychologically is an interesting subject.

I've found that in general individuals tends towards the opposite of what their consider their norm, or what they are experienced with or what they've become habituated with.

So a person brought up in poverty and danger, let's say, will be more hedonistic and cautious when the opportunity arises.
If one is brought up in rich and safe environments it will tend towards the ascetic and dangerous.

All of this is inversely proportional to each particular case.
When I say tend I mean it will idealize it. This doesn't mean it will attain it or even put any effort to attain it.
It means it will admire it or glorify it with its imagination.

For instance boys with no experience with war and danger, feeling bored in their relative safety, will glorify war...and individuals with a sense of weakness and vulnerability will glorify power.
The lazy will glorify work.
The sexually inadequate will glorify promiscuity.
The stupid will glorify intelligence.
The ignorant will glorify knowledge.
The weak will glorify strength.
The ugly will glorify beauty.

Of course if ego steps in this might lead to a sour-grape situation here the glorified is degraded so as to justify one's own lack.
The reverse, that is a weak ego will result in a deification or idealization of the glorified. Suddenly where the more proud might diminish the desirable the one with less pride will worship it as a God.

Here we see the divergence between the Judeo-Christian slavishness and the pagan pride.
The pagan either wants to tear down what confronts it with its superiority or he wishes to attain it. He is inspired by it.
The Jew wishes to submit to it, admire it from afar, keep it there above him; make it unattainable so that he lives in a perpetuals state of shame and inadequacy. The eternal victim of life.

Σατυρ wrote:

Actually adolescent behavior is beneficial to the system as this makes individuals less likely to rebel or to think outside the box or to confront authority or to question the rules and the ideals it now considered self-evident.

I'm not even gona.

Σατυρ wrote:

Well I'm not much into the details of economics but I understand systems sufficiently to come to certain conclusions. I've mentioned them before but here they are in brief:

The solution to this fiasco? Anarchism.

Σατυρ wrote:

How all this manifests itself real-time and socially and psychologically is an interesting subject.

I've found that in general individuals tends towards the opposite of what their consider their norm, or what they are experienced with or what they've become habituated with.

So a person brought up in poverty and danger, let's say, will be more hedonistic and cautious when the opportunity arises.
If one is brought up in rich and safe environments it will tend towards the ascetic and dangerous.

All of this is inversely proportional to each particular case.
When I say tend I mean it will idealize it. This doesn't mean it will attain it or even put any effort to attain it.
It means it will admire it or glorify it with its imagination.

For instance boys with no experience with war and danger, feeling bored in their relative safety, will glorify war...and individuals with a sense of weakness and vulnerability will glorify power.
The lazy will glorify work.
The sexually inadequate will glorify promiscuity.
The stupid will glorify intelligence.
The ignorant will glorify knowledge.
The weak will glorify strength.
The ugly will glorify beauty.

Of course if ego steps in this might lead to a sour-grape situation here the glorified is degraded so as to justify one's own lack.
The reverse, that is a weak ego will result in a deification or idealization of the glorified. Suddenly where the more proud might diminish the desirable the one with less pride will worship it as a God.

Here we see the divergence between the Judeo-Christian slavishness and the pagan pride.
The pagan either wants to tear down what confronts it with its superiority or he wishes to attain it. He is inspired by it.
The Jew wishes to submit to it, admire it from afar, keep it there above him; make it unattainable so that he lives in a perpetuals state of shame and inadequacy. The eternal victim of life.

This has way too many contradictions in it >____< srrry.

I'm beginning to think all these explanations for all the stuffs in the universe look more and more absurd each passing day. The absolutes are looking absolutely ...not even by degrees but...by numbers, looking absolutely silly....

There is so much to be said about our world but we often forget since it's not exact we shouldn't make it look that way :/

Quote :

individuals tends towards the opposite of what their consider their norm, or what they are experienced with or what they've become habituated with

Quote :

Of course if ego steps in this might lead to a sour-grape situation here the glorified is degraded so as to justify one's own lack.

These two statements just don't go together

You're making up an ultimatum, either/or situation and forgetting the million and other reasons why a person might like something. You can't say a person likes chocolate icecream cuz they grew up eating vanilla icecream especially IF you say, by the same token, that person could also like chocolate icecream cuz they always ate it growing up....oooops edit: a better way to put it would be if all they had in their freezer was chocolate icecream ;p

Do you see that contradiction? Doesn't make any sense, huh?

So I guess...

In other words, when we say anything at all, it sort of narrows things down to falsify them and make it more palatable.

That's I guess why words are/can be so disastrous and must be used with caution.

Language just fails >:[

We need a new one.

Accidental post, woops.

I would think weakness admires strength and put it on a pedestal, either to knock it down and feel better about itself or to use it to motivate itself.

There are two ways to react to the realization that one is inferior or weak:

1- You self-pity, lashing out in hatred towards what reminds you of your weakness to destroy it.

2- Same as the first only here your anger turns constructive. You seek to surpass what reminds you of your weakness.

One tries to tear down otherness the other to build up self.

--------------

You see fear is the missing element.

No fear, no caution.


The mind can imagine all sorts of fantastic shit when it doesn't really feel afraid because it hasn't ever really faced a situation where its life was really in peril, or, if it has, it was an exception to the rule.

In some situations bored minds feel alienated, disturbed by the "meaninglessness" so much that they fabricate dangers to make themselves feel excited with living. they often place themselves as a central figure in the dramatics.


Video-games are a good example of this kind of escapism.

Everything has to be blown put of proportion.
Hyperbole comes to save the day.

Suddenly the world is full of danger. Everything now indicates a threat, but a very minute one and not direct.

It is always out there, or soon to come, or the future or the beyond.

The world is so bland, their internal world so dull, that drama offers them that relief.
There is desperation here.

I had a friend who thought that every time a pretty waitress smiled at him that she was interested.
He was so desperate that the event took on a mystical quality.

Everything she did, said, became a symbol of her desire for him. She was sending him messages of her interest.
Of course in this case his delusion was soon shattered by reality.

But in religious delusion the element of their desire is made so fantastic that it avoids reality altogether. it is beyond shattering. .
Its distance makes it all the more desirable. It proves itself by its own mysteriousness.

Here reality has no say. The drama occurs in the mind and is sometimes a shared event.

The irony is that without these institutions which are often vilified the mind would be helpless to a reality it has no capacity to deal with.
Then again such a mind would never have been born without the infrastructure that shelters it and allows it to remain infantile or to live in its own delusional world.
Unrestricted reproduction, coupled with these protective environments lead to a slow decay.

The bodies become bigger, faster, stronger, while the mind atrophies.
The body becomes ornamental, the mind superfluous. Everything loses value.

Value being a temporally based evaluation.
.

4m6in3, of course Keynes wasn't the Jesus of economics. ,
I am interested in all the schools of economics but when I look at the austrian school they're all about a priori knowledge, it's so armchair to me. I am more of an empiricist than a rationalist. And the austrian school looks like kantianism in economics.

The strongpoint of austrian school, which I agree with, is that too much mathematics in economics is counterproductive.

But I don't believe that the market is somewhat magical and balances itself. Nor do I like the stat. But its shit we have to live with.

Alex,

Empiricism doesn't play a role in social sciences. The concept of speculations would cease to exist if it did. Furthermore, you read my previous thread, so you know where I stand when it comes to any empiricism. Rationale is no different.

As for the market balancing it self out. Well, why is there food on a shelf? The most basic factor is the greed of the farmer. People will always have wants and entrepreneurs will always have a need to answer those wants. Weather it's corruption, gangsters, laws, protection, roads, etc... Competition amongst the entrepreneurs will make sure that those wants are always met in the highest quality and efficiency. If an entrepreneur is corrupt, produces poor service/product, to the customers then he/she has fucked him/herself. The entrepreneur law system, or justice department will solve this matter as well. All via competition. The people will go to the competition next door. Etc... Etc.. Competition will also advance society at a far greater pace then any government society could. Cheap prices thanks to competition. You name it. The only problem is that it takes time to develop this new system and the entire reason it was never developed is because people cry I need a government at the first disastrous incident. They don't allow the system to fix it. When you have a problem with your boss, do you complain to him, or do you complain to the government? See what I mean. Oh, and people like to say, "oh well look at Somalia, they have no government" But if you actually do look at Somalia, they're doing a lot better since the government dismantled. The media biases obviously distort the facts. Here...The Rule of Law without the State

In short, peoples wants, entrepreneurs wants/answers, and competition. All starts with property rights and contracts which the entrepreneurs will take care of first. I don't know if you read Rothbard..but if you're interested, here... Readings on Anarchy 4. 5. 6.

You're correct though that we're stuck in this shit, but the system can't sustain itself for too long and it will blow up soon enough.

Because it doesn't play a role that's why social sciences are pretty much a failure. I think this is the huge problem. Social scientists are almost as useless as priests.

The market doesn't balance because Say's Law isn't realistic as it looks.

I don't dispute that greed is a factor in the motive of humans. But I cannot accept this belief of humans as being rational agents, this goes against everything we know from history and evolution theory. The fact that the Austrian School still holds on to the rational human agent is for me a red flag.

I don't deny that society can exist without a goverment if that's what you imply. I was actually a fan of anarcho-capitalist myself for a while. But I think too much market fundamentalism is wrong from an empirical standpoint.

The theory might always be sound. Their axioms beautiful, the mathematical models rigid. But look how the world differs from the theories.

Σατυρ wrote:

IThere are two ways to react to the realization that one is inferior or weak:

I can see your point in action. As I skimmed through the comments, niggers are trying to destroy or surpass their inferiority. Link... Dead Nigger Storage

Funny site

Alex,

I hear ya. Just stay on top of the money/food chain if you wish to live well amongst irrational people. Granted, one consequence is overly cautious.

Depeche Mode - Little Soul

Can't seem to embed this shit.

Another way is to become indifferent to the money/food chain, to whatever degree you can.

Not "ob top" but above or below, as in escape it or bury yourself within it so as to become inconspicuous.

The first option is sort of closed, as there is no frontier, the latter is depicted metaphorically in the movie The Matrix or Fight Club, only without the desire to confront the system or change it, but to live parasitically off of it, like all predators do with any herd...somewhat described in Dostoevsky Notes from the Underground.

It's a form of asceticism only without making this your goal.
This is a more discriminating state, depicted beautifully in the Hannibal Lecter trilogy.

I hear you on the radio
You permeate my screen, it's unkind but
If I met you in a scissor fight
I'd cut off both your wings on principle alone
On principle alone

The illuminati wants to be defeated. They are a double-sided die.

10:24?

^^^ good song. I've been known to rock out to it.

Wake up
Grab a brush and put a little (makeup)
Grab a brush and put a little
Hide the scars to fade away the (shakeup)
Hide the scars to fade away the
Why’d you leave the keys upon the table?
Here you go create another fable
You wanted to
Grab a brush and put a little makeup
You wanted to
Hide the scars to fade away the shakeup
You wanted to
Why’d you leave the keys upon the table?
You wanted to

Why don't you ask the kids at Tiananmen Square?
Was fashion the reason why they were there?
They disguise it, hypnotize it
Television made you buy it

I'm just sitting in my car and waiting for my

She's scared that I will take her away from there
Dreams that her country left with no one there
Mesmerize the simple minded
Propaganda leaves us blinded

I'm just sitting in my car and waiting for my girl
I'm just sitting in my car and waiting for my girl

I'm just sitting in my car and waiting for my girl
I'm just sitting in my car and waiting for my
Girl