Know Thyself

Nothing in Excess
 
HomePortalSearchRegisterLog in

Share
 

 Absolute

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySat Jul 06, 2019 6:17 pm

It's like they've abused the word 'love'.

Man I love this cream-puff
I love your hair
God is love, love is god
I love this song


Does it means one is in an erotic relationship with hair, with a song, is there love present at all or is it a pretentious expression attempting to affect another?

How did Saddam use 'mother'?
'Mother of all battles'....did he mean it literally or as a hyperbolic expression of a extreme?
Was the coming battle actually the birth mother of all battles?

Take the word 'race'.
When it's the human race, then its divine, spiritual, all-inclusive, non-sexual, an ideal....when it's about a sub-category of the specie, then it's no more than skin pigmentation.

The motive dictates the application of a word.
Attaching to reality, so as to engage and accept, or detaching so as to reject.
Any concept can be reduced to a meaningless concept using this method.
It's how Wittgenstein, true to his tribe's motive, attempted to undermine all language.

Best antidote is to reconnect words, one by one, to the real, to their original place as mediating symbols between mind/abstraction and body/physical; noumenon and phenomenon.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 08, 2019 9:02 am

Evola, Julius wrote:
The traditional symbolism, the supernatural principle was conceived as ‘masculine’ and the principle of nature and of becoming as ‘feminine.’ In Hellenic terms the ‘one’ (το εν), which is ‘in itself,’ complete, and self-sufficient, is regarded as masculine. Conversely, the dyad, the principle of differentiation and of ‘other-than-self,’ and thus the principle of desire and of movement, is regarded as feminine. In Hindy terms (according to the Samkhya darsana), the impassable spirit (purusa) is masculine, while prakkrti, the active matrix of every conditioned form, is feminine. The Far eastern tradition expressed equivalent concepts through the cosmic duality of yin and yang, whereby yang, the male principle, is associated with the ‘virtue of heaven’ and yin, the feminine principle, with the principle of the earth.

It follows that the absolute would be a seductive meme to the feminine spirit, absolute order attracting the emasculated and the feminine, and the idea of chaos, in the Hellenic sense, and multiplicity, would be attractive to the masculine spirit.
Nihilism is the domain of the herd - the feminized flock to it, seeking refuge, willing to sacrifice their free-will to its absolute dominion, i.e., its totalitarian authoritarian determining will.
Females, children, need a pre-existing external order to immerse themselves within.

The spiritual dogmas of Paganism and Abrahamism reflect this.
Not only the matrilineal inheritance of identity (genos), of the Jews, but the anti-family doctrine of Christianity and Islam.
Biblical allegories expose its underlying anti-life, anti-nature, anti-family values.
Islam hides its own emasculation principles behind hyper-masculine displays.

The one-god becomes supreme pater of all his human children, and lover to all his human females who submit to his authority.

Males are relegated to surrogate representations of his masculine monopoly.  
In its secular form the state - institution - takes over this role.
The idea of absolute order, reflects this need for a higher supreme master to give-into, to surrender one's will, and be absolved of more than 'sin', but more importantly cleansed of responsibility, of one's own personal past - diluted within causality as a universal absolute truth.
Power though association - feminine - has the added benefit of powerlessness through universality and uniformity - parity as universal subjects to divine authority.


Relative to Mind/Body
Mind is masculine; body is feminine.
Nervous system is their synthesis, mode of communicating - in Biblical allegory God = mind; Body=Jesus, mankind; Holy Ghost = Nervous system.
The feminine wants to surrender her body (reality, nature) to the masculine mind (idea/ideal); the masculine mind wants to dominate the feminine body.
Nervous System acts as mediator - language, semiotics.

Free-Will and identity is what is surrendered and what is dominated.
The feminine is more than willing to sacrifice and to submit; the masculine wills its dominion, increasing its freedom, i.e., choices.
Choices over the feminine.

The 'bad boy' (alpha-male) is the male that seduces without even trying....because his confidence is based on indifference for the particular - he has multiple options to choose from.
What do females find unattractive in males?
Neediness....his lack of other options.
She needs to be the chosen one.
See this in relation to Judaism and their cultivated talent for codes - language, semiotics - money is a symbols, a code.
Words are how she tries to be the one and only. Women are more linguistically focused. They learn to speak and are more verbal than males.
See how aphorisms and Spartan verbal brevity - lakonizein esti philosophein - was associated with masculinity.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 17, 2019 8:58 pm

Voltair wrote:
We live in the most probable of all possible worlds.
Space = possibility.
Order = probability.
Order manifests as matter/energy in relation to the metabolic median rate of the observing organism - in this case human.
[See [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]

Chaos would be what inhibits probability increasing possibility.

All human knowledge and understanding is founded ion the evaluation of probabilities.
Consciousness is an ongoing adjustment of evaluating approximate probabilities, within a fluctuating dynamic existence.    
Life can only emerge within a cosmos of probability - or in the linear movement towards increasing chaos, life emerges when a distance from near-absolute order has reached a balance between order and chaos.
Life is antagonistic towards increasing chaos, and experiences this resistance as need/suffering.

What man calls "world" is what he can perceive, i.e., order.
This is indicated in human spirituality.
Worshipping order is an indirect worshipping of life and all that makes it possible, in an indifferent, uncertain, cosmos of increasing chaos.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 3:28 pm

The manner in which you define the word "absolute" is one of the things that I find confusing in your philosophy.

For example, you consider words such as "one", "indivisible" and "immutable" to be synonymous with "absolute".

But "one indivisible immutable thing" is not a pleonasm. It's certainly not the same as "immutable thing". A thing that is immutable can be divisible or indivisible. Also, there can be one or many immutable things.

Furthermore, an immutable thing can be absolutely immutable (which means completely immutable) as well as partially immutable (which means that only some of its aspects are immutable.)

It becomes even more confusing when the word "absolute", originally an adjective, is turned into a noun.

The word "absolute", as I understand it, is synonymous with "total", "complete", "entire" and "full".

Thus, a statement such as "There are no absolutes" translates to "There are no things that are complete". But this is evidently not true. For example, noone is going to dispute that there is such a thing as a glass of water that is full or a completed jigsaw puzzle. After all, the word "complete" simply means "having all the necessary parts" or "meeting all of the requirements".

If you consider "one dog" to be an absolute, and if you argue that absolutes do not exist, then it follows that there is no one dog in the existence. This means not a single dog exists. This is not true and noone really believes it.

On the other hand, if you want to say that a dog is not a physical object made out of a number of indivisible elements, such as atoms, then that's a different thing, one with which I can agree. Still, I cannot agree that the word "indivisible" means the same thing as "absolute".

I understand and agree that:

1) there are no physical objects that are finitely divisible (i.e. that cannot be divided infinitely)
2) there are no physical objects that exist for all eternity
3) there are no physical objects that do not change at every point in time

But calling these things "absolutes" does nothing but confuse me.

"One" and "many" are not mutually exclusive. For example, an apple is a single thing made out of many things. The thing represented by the word "apple" is both one thing (a single apple) and many things (a bunch of molecules.) It makes NO SENSE to say that they are either one or the other or that the one is closer to the truth than the other. It makes as much sense as arguing that dogs are truly "dogs" and not "chiens". It's just language. One and the same phenomenon can be represented using any number of symbols. When you say "There is no ONE" what I guess you mean is "There is NO thing that is NOT made out of many things." I can agree with that. But that DOES NOT mean there is no such thing as "one apple". Consider this: there is an apple on my table. There is only one apple. There is no two apples, no three apples, no million apples, no infinite number of apples, no zero apples on my table. There is EXACTLY one apple on my table. Hardly disputable.

We use symbols to represent reality. A symbol is just a portion of reality used by sentient beings to represent some other portion of reality. Symbols, as well as what they mean, is freely decided by those who make use of them. There are no "true" and "false" symbols. Rather, it is what these symbols represent (or what they CAN represent) that either exists in reality or not. The word "unicorn", for example, is a word that represents something that does not exist in reality. On the other hand, the word "one apple" is a symbol that represents something that does. The word "thing" represents something that is real too. The word "immutable physical object", however, represents something that is not. The word "perfect woman" may or may not represent something that exists. It depends on the precise meaning of the word "perfect". Similarly, "a glass full of water" may or may not represent something real. It depends on how one interprets the word "full". If what is meant is "full at every viewing distance" then no such thing exists. But if what is meant is "full at a normal viewing distance" then there are indeed such things. And so on.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 4:20 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
The manner in which you define the word "absolute" is one of the things that I find confusing in your philosophy.

For example, you consider words such as "one", "indivisible" and "immutable" to be synonymous with "absolute".
These are metaphors describing the absolute.
Given that there is no such thing we can only imagine it.
Another is "one".

Magnus Anderson wrote:
But "one indivisible immutable thing" is not a pleonasm. It's certainly not the same as "immutable thing". A thing that is immutable can be divisible or indivisible. Also, there can be one or many immutable things.
But the "absolute" is both.
You are renaming universe into an absolute, similar to how many describe it as "perfect".

The universe is a mental construct....because it necessitates going "outside" to conceive it as a "whole", or to make it a "whole", a "oneness".
Since we can only perceive it from within, then it is mutable, divisible, and fluctuating....all metaphors describing fluidity - Flux.
From within it there is only multiplicity, no singularity.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Furthermore, an immutable thing can be absolutely immutable (which means completely immutable) as well as partially immutable (which means that only some of its aspects are immutable.)
This discretion is self-contradicting....like "perfection made of imperfect parts".
What is "immutable" is the idea absolute.....and this has no external reference. It is a concept, a noumenon.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
It becomes even more confusing when the word "absolute", originally an adjective, is turned into a noun.
The absolute is a noun, referring to a verb - Flux, as in fluctuating, energies.
Being and Becoming - Being refers to the idea/ideal representing the verb Becoming, which is more precise.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
The word "absolute", as I understand it, is synonymous with "total", "complete", "entire" and "full".
And all these terms refer to something non-existent.
For a some-thing to be "full" it requires a boundary.
The conflict between noumenon and phenomenon is evident here.
The mind can only conceptualize by reducing a phenomenon to a noumenon - an idea/ideal.
In so doing it "interprets/translates" it into a form it can process - reducing its dimensions.
The idea is whole, perfect, full, or anything the mind so wishes to call it, because it is a interpretation - representation. .
In the same way a picture of a tree is whole, full, with boundaries, static, complete....representing a tree which is not.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Thus, a statement such as "There are no absolutes" translates to "There are no things that are complete". But this is evidently not true. For example, noone is going to dispute that there is such a thing as a glass of water that is full or a completed jigsaw puzzle. After all, the word "complete" simply means "having all the necessary parts" or "meeting all of the requirements".
The only way these are "complete" is when man places a noetic boundary around them, and converts them into a "thing".
The "glass" does not exist as a whole, but is part of a cosmos....so it can only be "full" when the rim is the boundary of the concept.
Otherwise glass, liquid participates in constant interaction with cosmos.
Like the photo the mind takes a "snapshot" - noeticall freezing reality....so glass and water, though constantly interacting, seem static.

The universe cannot be "full", unless one does the same trick as with the glass, i.e., place a noetic boundary around it, or "snip" it into a noetic construct - an idea/ideal.
Place a theoretical boundary around it and then reduce it into a singular thing.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
If you consider "one dog" to be an absolute, and if you argue that absolutes do not exist, then it follows that there is no one dog in the existence. This means not a single dog exists. This is not true and noone really believes it.
a dog is divisible and mutable....which is to say it is a dynamic process...and not a singularity.
It is never full because it is constantly losing and gaining energies, as pa of its existence - its becoming.
An organism is a constant effort to replenish energies being lost to temporal attrition - interactivity, i.e., Flux.
Every time you see the same dog it is never exactly the same as before. What makes it a singular organism?
Continuum - memory.
Not only is it part of a continuum in your memory - built over time - but it is memory - DNA - following a pattern - constantly repairing damage done to it by simply existing.

Not even a metal wall is exactly the same every time you look at it - you simply cannot perceive its changes, because they are slow and happening on a level you cannot perceive.
You can only realize that it was changing if you go back after decades to witness the accumulated changes....now perceptible even to your human eyes.

Everything is in flux, at different speeds - what is slow is experienced as "solid" and what is fast as liquid or air, or void.
The slowness of some matter, in relation to human metabolic rates, is what we call 'solid'...as if it were immutable.
You cannot see a god's constant modifications....losing cells as you perceive it; its physical form fluctuating no a level you cannot perceive.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
On the other hand, if you want to say that a dog is not a physical object made out of a number of indivisible elements, such as atoms, then that's a different thing, one with which I can agree. Still, I cannot agree that the word "indivisible" means the same thing as "absolute".
Even atoms are human construct....representing processes. The mind freezes them into 'things', because that's the only way it can perceive - binary 1/0.


Magnus Anderson wrote:
I understand and agree that:

1) there are no physical objects that are finitely divisible (i.e. that cannot be divided infinitely)
The idea of infinite divisibility is a way of compensating for the dissonance between noumenon and phenomenon - the dynamic process interpreted as a mental concept, an idea.
The mind cannot conceptualize fluidity - like a painter cannot paint it - so it sues artistry to represent it indirectly.
Infinite divisibility is a compromise made by the mind to its own inability - so fluidity is converted to infinity; thingness is infinitely divided because it is a representation of fluidity.
Magnus Anderson wrote:
2) there are no physical objects that exist for all eternity
But there are physical objects, representing matter - i.e., energies fluctuating as slower speeds than man's metabolic rate, therefore slower than his processing speeds.
This speed of flux the mind interprets as matter....what is faster than his metabolism/processing speed he experiences as liquid or energy.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
3) there are no physical objects that do not change at every point in time
So, here "point in time" refers to the observer - in this case an organism called human.
Cosmic speeds are not the same as organic speeds - metabolic rhythms and brain processing speeds - determined by cellular systolic/diastolic rhythms.
To a human a metal slab of titanium seems immutable.....he may die and see no change on its surface.But the titanium is dynamic....at such a slow speed that man cannot processes it - perceive it with his senses, with the aid of technologies that multiply the sensitivity/acuity of his senses.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
But calling these things "absolutes" does nothing but confuse me.
My claim is that there are no such things as "absolutes" other than inside the human brain - we call those idea/ideals.
The idea of an absolute does not exist outside organic minds - there is no immutable/indivisible, singularity.
There is nothing to be "full" or "empty"....other than in the human brain - we call that one/nil.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
"One" and "many" are not mutually exclusive. For example, an apple is a single thing made out of many things. The thing represented by the word "apple" is both one thing (a single apple) and many things (a bunch of molecules.) It makes NO SENSE to say that they are either one or the other or that the one is closer to the truth than the other. It makes as much sense as arguing that dogs are truly "dogs" and not "chiens". It's just language. One and the same phenomenon can be represented using any number of symbols. When you say "There is no ONE" what I guess you mean is "There is NO thing that is NOT made out of many things." I can agree with that. But that DOES NOT mean there is no such thing as "one apple". Consider this: there is an apple on my table. There is only one apple. There is no two apples, no three apples, no million apples, no infinite number of apples, no zero apples on my table. There is EXACTLY one apple on my table. Hardly disputable.
I've described how I think "one" is fabricated by the human brain - but this is a process that holds true for all organic brains - using the same methods.
To reduce a process into a 'idea' the brain noetically "cuts away" dimensions = possibilities - reducing the phenomenon into an object it can process.

For example, a mind can isolate a stone, on a cliff, or a grain of sand in the stone, by exuding the background.
This is how infinite divisibility works.
Planet - Mountain Range - mountain top, bolder, stone, grain of sand...and there human acuity stops, unless it is aided by technologies like a telescope or a microscope, in which case additional levels are available.
In this case one galaxy; one planet in one galaxy; one mountain on one planet, in one galaxy; one boulder on one mountain on one planet in one galaxy....
All 'ones'.
If we take Heidegger's definition of space as "possibility" then matter is a probability within this spatial possibility....a reduction or qualification of possibilities.
So, each level represents how many probabilities man can process.
On each level he call it a "oneness" - referring to his own projections of probability.

One simply refers to a mental abstraction - idea/ideal - representing a dynamic process.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
We use symbols to represent reality. A symbol is just a portion of reality used by sentient beings to represent some other portion of reality. Symbols, as well as what they mean, is freely decided by those who make use of them. There are no "true" and "false" symbols. Rather, it is what these symbols represent (or what they CAN represent) that either exists in reality or not. The word "unicorn", for example, is a word that represents something that does not exist in reality. On the other hand, the word "one apple" is a symbol that represents something that does. The word "thing" represents something that is real too. The word "immutable physical object", however, represents something that is not. The word "perfect woman" may or may not represent something that exists. It depends on the precise meaning of the word "perfect". Similarly, "a glass full of water" may or may not represent something real. It depends on how one interprets the word "full". If what is meant is "full at every viewing distance" then no such thing exists. But if what is meant is "full at a normal viewing distance" then there are indeed such things. And so on.
Now we come to the source of Nihilism....the noumenon represented by a symbol.
This is where it goes crazy.
The abstraction is represented by a symbol which can be externalized - written, drawn, etc....this is art. Technology is an art-form - representational of man's perceptions and his reactions to what he perceives.
Man creates abstractions - ideas/ideals - in his brain, e=resenting phenomena that are dynamic and fluctuating....and then he can return these abstraction back into reality in the form he reduced it to.
So, a man can reduce a horse into a idea/ideal - image - which he then can return outside his mind as a painting, or a structure, or a mechanical horse.
Art is a representation of the mind's perceptions and understanding of the phenomenon.

There are many interpretation occurring - first the phenomenon is interpreted into a form the brain can process; then it is reinterpreted, through a different medium, into another form representing his interpretation of the original.


_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 4:28 pm

I use "absolute" defined as "immutable, indivisible, complete" because none of these refers to anything experienced. All is not only fluctuating but porous - changing.
You, as a conscious living organism feel this as need/suffering, as imperfection, incompleteness - hunger, desire....will.
You can baptise it all as "divinely perfect and complete" but you feel how hypocritical this is....because you are part of existence becoming aware of itself.
Name it anything you like....you know how incomplete you are; you know how imperfect you feel, no matter how arrogant you may be.
You are an organism constantly struggling to maintain itself....even in those moments where you feel blissful, comfortable, you re in a state of agon - struggling to resist temporal attrition.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 5:51 pm

Quote :
For example, a mind can isolate a stone, on a cliff, or a grain of sand in the stone, by exuding the background.

Right. That would be the process of abstraction. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is immediately replaced by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I suppose we do this in order to reduce the amount of information we work with (since our brains have a limited memory.)

Quote :
Planet - Mountain Range - mountain top, bolder, stone, grain of sand...and there human acuity stops, unless it is aided by technologies like a telescope or a microscope, in which case additional levels are available.
In this case one galaxy; one planet in one galaxy; one mountain on one planet, in one galaxy; one boulder on one mountain on one planet in one galaxy....
All 'ones'.

Yes, they are all 'ones' in the sense of being single things. But that does not mean that they do not exist. It does not mean that there is no "one mountain" out there in the real world.

Quote :
On each level he call it a "oneness" - referring to his own projections of probability.
One simply refers to a mental abstraction - idea/ideal - representing a dynamic process.

That's the critical bit. "One mountain" does not refer to a mental abstraction. Rather, it refers to a physical object. The symbol "one mountain" can be used to represent a physical object that is dynamic (i.e. that changes all the time) as well as a physical object that is static (i.e. that does not change at all.) That's what follows from its definition. A man can be a butler regardless of his hair color, right? Similarly, a physical object can be a single mountain regardless of whether it is mutable or immutable, divisible or indivisible, temporary or eternal.

Quote :
Given that there is no such thing we can only imagine it.

Sure. Maybe the word "absolute" as you define it represents something that does not exist, something that cannot be physically interacted with. Maybe it refers to something that can only be imagined. Like the word "unicorn". The problem is: I don't understand what you mean by that word, so I cannot even imagine it, let alone search for it in the physical world.

I've said what I think the word "absolute" means. It is synonymous with "total", "complete", "entire" and "full". If that's how you define the word, then it's not true that there are no things out there in the real world that are "absolute".

Quote :
The universe is a mental construct.

That sounds so wrong (: I agree that the word "universe" is just a word i.e. a symbol that exists inside human minds. That's not disputable. But what it refers to surely exists, right? The word universe means "all existence". It refers to the sum of everything that has existed, that exists and that will exist. By definition, everything that exists is inside the universe i.e. can be represented by the phrase "part of the universe".

Quote :
because it necessitates going "outside" to conceive it as a "whole", or to make it a "whole", a "oneness".

You don't have to go outside the universe to do that. All you need to do is choose a symbol, such as a word, and give it the appropriate definition.

After all, what does it mean to go outside of the universe? By definition, there is NOTHING outside of the universe.

Quote :
And all these terms refer to something non-existent.
For a some-thing to be "full" it requires a boundary.

Yes. But there is a boundary. It is subjectively determined. First, you define what a "complete man" is (the conceptual phase, during which you establish the aforementioned boundary) and then go out searching for a phenomenon that can be represented by that symbol (the empirical phase, during which you determine whether such men really exist). At the end of your journey, you get to answer the question: do "complete men" exist or not? The fact that a boundary is required to establish what a complete man is has no impact on the empirical status of complete men.

Quote :
The mind can only conceptualize by reducing a phenomenon to a noumenon - an idea/ideal.

Yes, men cannot funcion without concepts, I understand that, but that does not mean that what their concepts represent does not exist.

Quote :
The "glass" does not exist as a whole, but is part of a cosmos....so it can only be "full" when the rim is the boundary of the concept.

I have this impression that you consider every representation that does not specify every bit of reality to be without a reference in it. So a statement such as "glass" refers to nothing merely because it does not specify what that glass should be surrounded by. That's not how language works. The word "glass" does not refer to the entire universe. Rather, it refers to a tiny portion of it. The symbol that is the word "glass" is defined in such a way that it can be used to represent any glass regardless of its position in space and time.
Back to top Go down
Impulso Oscuro

Impulso Oscuro

Gender : Male Aries Posts : 596
Join date : 2013-12-10
Age : 28
Location : Praxis

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 6:16 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:

Yes, they are all 'ones' in the sense of being single things. But that does not mean that they do not exist. It does not mean that there is no "one mountain" out there in the real world.

There is the pattern of a mountain on a continuum but not some ideal perfect form of a mountain that all patterns must perfectly match up to, also that mountain is continuously changing and over time it might not have the form of the pattern we recognize as a mountain.

There is no way of escaping the absolute assumptions behind everything we say, because our minds and language is founded on binary logic in order to save time and produce efficiency in our communication. This efficiency is not a projected description of reality, but a reaction that enhanced survival. The nature of the cosmos is not a projection of our own reaction/survival to it, we are a product of the cosmos, a cosmos we can find patterns in, but never fully describe or understand.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 6:35 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:

alaxy; one planet in one galaxy; one mountain on one planet, in one galaxy; one boulder on one mountain on one planet in one galaxy....
All 'ones'.

Yes, they are all 'ones' in the sense of being single things. But that does not mean that they do not exist. It does not mean that there is no "one mountain" out there in the real world.[/quote]I did not say thee was no mountain or not stone on the mountain and no grain of sand on the stone.
I am saying the painting of a tree is not the tree - the representation has boundaries and is relatively static - the canvas - the tree is dynamic.
yet, even the matter the representation is made of is also mutable....so painting of tree and tree are both changing, but at different rates.
Same applies for the neurological clusters, the image in your brain (abstraction) of a tree, and the tree itself.
An idea, writing down the word 'tree' and how it is defined - can exist for longer than any tree ever can.

So there is a is a dissonance between a noumenon (idea, abstraction) and the phenomenon its represents.
So, I can write down the word 'absolute', think of it, and define it as "immutable, indivisible" and yet still no absolute outside my mind.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Sure. Maybe the word "absolute" as you define it represents something that does not exist, something that cannot be physically interacted with. Maybe it refers to something that can only be imagined. Like the word "unicorn". The problem is: I don't understand what you mean by that word, so I cannot even imagine it, let alone search for it in the physical world.
I've defined it as "immutable and indivisible"...and this lies under all nihilistic ideologies - implied directly or indirectly.
Such as 'God', as the Abrahamics define the concept.
I've yet to find something omnipotent and omniscient....qualification of the absolute, i.e., indivisible, immutable power, awareness.

It is its absence that makes the idea/ideal of an absolute so seductive to needy organic minds.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
I've said what I think the word "absolute" means. It is synonymous with "total", "complete", "entire" and "full". If that's how you define the word, then it's not true that there are no things out there in the real world that are "absolute".
and yet, to make these ideas possible you must contain the phenomenon within dimensions - you think that because a glass can be "full" that this is an absolute - but your cut away dimensions, and time.
The liquid in the glass is evaporating as you watch it on the edge of the glass - nothing about the concept is absolute - both glass and liquid are in constant flux.
You call "complete hat has satisfied your definition of "whole" yet nothing about what you call complete is indivisible, eternal, static, final, immutable.
You've just set dimensional boundaries, in your mind.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
That sounds so wrong (: I agree that the word "universe" is just a word i.e. a symbol that exists inside human minds. That's not disputable. But what it refers to surely exists, right? The word universe means "all existence". It refers to the sum of everything that has existed, that exists and that will exist. By definition, everything that exists is inside the universe i.e. can be represented by the phrase "part of the universe".
I used the term "universe" not cosmos.
Uni-verse implies an enclosure.
Cosmos is open-ended.

The conception of uni-verse has been described:
mind projects itself "outside existence" to conceptualize existence as a whole.
This created the paradox of an immutable, indivisible whole universe made up of mutable, divisible parts - the contradiction is between the idea/idea; and the real: noumenon and phenomenon.
A singularity, like all absolutes, is a mental construct.....expressing a reaction, a conviction, an idea.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
You don't have to go outside the universe to do that. All you need to do is choose a symbol, such as a word, and give it the appropriate definition.
No, to conceptualize existence as a uni-vers, you must exit, noetically, existence.
The symbol follows, as a representation of this mental process.

From within existence, there is no absolute whole, but only mutable, processes.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
After all, what does it mean to go outside of the universe? By definition, there is NOTHING outside of the universe.
Exactly...what is "outside" existence?
Non-Existence.
The foundation of Nihilism. The absolute - whether positive or negative - negates existence as it is experienced.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Yes. But there is a boundary. It is subjectively determined. First, you define what a "complete man" is (the conceptual phase, during which you establish the aforementioned boundary) and then go out searching for a phenomenon that can be represented by that symbol (the empirical phase, during which you determine whether such men really exist). At the end of your journey, you get to answer the question: do "complete men" exist or not? The fact that a boundary is required to establish what a complete man is has no impact on the empirical status of complete men.
Then you've fabricated an ideal.
A man is dynamic...he is not a being, but a becoming...so he is never complete....always moving towards or away from.

To fabricate a "complete man" you must arbitrarily create a theoretical dimensional boundary.
Like the idea of a "here" and a "now". The boundary is established by the mind - usually starting with the expression of the word and ending with its finality.
But any arbitrary boundary can be set - such as 'here' encompassed by the passage of a second.
Measuring time is based no human metabolic rhythms.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Yes, men cannot funcion without concepts, I understand that, but that does not mean that what their concepts represent does not exist.
I never said concepts do not exist.
I define existence as "what is dynamic and interactive". Naturally an idea is both...as it exists in the brain as a neural cluster or as neural energies....but the concept of a tree is not the tree itself.

This is how Nihilists can conceptualize the antithesis of what is experienced as existence - such as God,a s the Avrahamics define the concept.
The mind's ability to conceptualize is unhindered by natural order. Fro example, I can conceptualize a unicorn, or a Minotaur,,,,and add details to my concept....and it still does not exist anywhere else but on my mind.
I can then draw my concept, write down my definition, so that I've externalize my abstraction...and till the representation of my abstraction does not exist independently from mind. But, when I've shared my concept, it can exist in multiple minds, as idea...and still not exist outside minds.

Magnus Anderson wrote:
I have this impression that you consider every representation that does not specify every bit of reality to be without a reference in it. So a statement such as "glass" refers to nothing merely because it does not specify what that glass is surrounded by. That's not how language works. The word "glass" does not refer to the entire universe. Rather, it refers to a tiny portion of it. The symbol that is the word "glass" is defined in such a way that it can be used to represent any glass regardless of its position in space and time.
I am aware of how humans, becoming self-aware - self-conscious - can confuse their own linguistics representations for actual existing phenomena.

This is why I specifically define "absolute" as immutable, and indivisible, and not as "certainty" - I am absolutely certain", or as something mutable such as "full glass of water", where I've arbitrarily created a dimensional boundary, the glass itself, to cut it off and place it apart form all existence, so that I can comfort myself with the idea of "fullness", or fulfilment".
The glass does not exist independently form every other phenomenon. So your definition of "fullness" is a mental trick- where you arbitrarily cut away dimensions, that contradict your ideal of fullness...just as you cut-away dimensions to focus on a pebble, calling it a "one", so as to comfort yourself that there is a oneness.
you arbitrarily isolate one stone, from all other stones, from the mountain, from the planet, from the galaxy, so as to prove to yourself that there is a "one".

You isolate the glass, arbitrarily - noetically - excluding all spatial; dimensions beyond the glass - which you've constructed for this function - to hold a small amount of liquid.....so that "fullness" can be proven to you.
The "glass is full" and the pebble is one...and still no absolute is to be found outside your mind. This does not mean it does not exit...for it exist in your mind - as an idea.

What did I say about absolutes?
They only exist in the mind, as idea/ideals, represented with symbols/words.
I can think of an omnipotent, omniscient BEING....and still this idea does not exist anywhere but in my mind, or in the minds of those I've share the idea with.

to help you differentiate noumena from phenomena----

noumenon = abstraction, idea/ideal, image...translation, interpretation of the existent - the present.
phenomenon = apparent, interpretation of present as appearance; existing independently from mind, but interpreted by mind - converting it to a noumenon.

Noumnenn can be manipulated easily....phenomenon cannot.
I can synthesise a horse with a man, I cannot do so with an actual horse and man - unless I physically intervene, with uncertain consequences.
I can invert experienced reality; I cannot do so in reality.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 6:40 pm

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:

Yes, they are all 'ones' in the sense of being single things. But that does not mean that they do not exist. It does not mean that there is no "one mountain" out there in the real world.

There is the pattern of a mountain on a continuum but not some ideal perfect form of a mountain that all patterns must perfectly match up to, also that mountain is continuously changing and over time it might not have the form of the pattern we recognize as a mountain.

There is no way of escaping the absolute assumptions behind everything we say, because our minds and language is founded on binary logic in order to save time and produce efficiency in our communication. This efficiency is not a projected description of reality, but a reaction that enhanced survival. The nature of the cosmos is not a projection of our own reaction/survival to it, we are a product of the cosmos, a cosmos we can find patterns in, but never fully describe or understand.

Yes...so we must think artistically.....discerning between our representation and that which is present.

Connecting language to observable, testable, falsifiable phenomena, clarifies our minds.

The absolute is the foundation of nihilism - and of Abrahamism.
See how they define their God. As the antithesis of how we experience existence - their God is a negation of existence.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 6:47 pm

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
There is the pattern of a mountain on a continuum but not some ideal perfect form of a mountain that all patterns must perfectly match up to, also that mountain is continuously changing and over time it might not have the form of the pattern we recognize as a mountain.

I think it's much simpler than that. There is what you see, hear and touch and then there is the word "mountain" that has a specific meaning within a specific language. As per the definition of the word "mountain", the former (what you see, hear and touch) can either be represented by that word or not. If it can be represented, then it follows that mountains exist.

We are not talking about perfect forms such as perfect circles which I agree do not exist.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 6:48 pm

To say "there is absolutely no elephant in my pocket" is not evidence of an absolute.
Neither elephant, nor pocket is immutable, indivisible, and even your conviction is not entirely certain, because nobody is omniscient.
This is an expression of extreme certainty - a high degree of conviction, based no precedent.
It may be a factual statement, but nothing it refers to is absolute.

The statement: "There re absolutely no absolutes" is a linguistic paradox based on the presumption of an absolute - an absurdity requiring an equal absurdity to negate it.
When mind confuses representation for represented, such linguistic paradoxes are inevitable.
Through them the dissonance of ideal/real become clear. The real contradicting the idea/ideal.
Most Moderns prefer to side with the idea/ideal, refusing to adjust it....because its their safety net - their escape route.
The noetic is divine, because it is subjective. the real is threatening, evil, because it is uncertain, indifferent to human needs/desires; a source of anxiety.
So nihilism enters to present the idea/ideal as superior to the real - more 'real' than the real.
Noumenon usurping phenomenon.



_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 7:40 pm

Quote :
I used the term "universe" not cosmos.
Uni-verse implies an enclosure.
Cosmos is open-ended.

Alright. That's a rather unusual definition. I thought that universe and cosmos are synonymous. Google agrees with me.

Quote :
I did not say thee was no mountain or not stone on the mountain and no grain of sand on the stone.

It's very difficult to tell what you're trying to say.

At one point, you said that there is no "one". That in itself is a very strange statement. Let me ask: what does it mean to say "There is a one"? It does not look like proper English to me. What you can say is "There is one apple on the desk". That's a meaningful statement that you can empirically test. I believe there is such a desk somewhere in the universe at this very point in time.

Then you said that words such as "total" and "complete" refer to something that is non-existent. I can't get my head around that either.

Quote :
Then you've fabricated an ideal.

No, you did not fabricate an ideal, you merely defined a word.

Quote :
A man is dynamic...he is not a being, but a becoming...so he is never complete....always moving towards or away from.

If I first say that a complete man is a man who has four limbs and then proceed to state that such men exist, there is no way in hell you could deny such a statement by saying "Well, that man right there is dynamic, he is not a being but a becoming, so he is never complete". That would be a case of not listening to what the person is saying.

Quote :
To fabricate a "complete man" you must arbitrarily create a theoretical dimensional boundary.

You do not fabricate a complete man. What you do is you define a word and then set out to see whether there is a part of reality that can be represented by that word.

Quote :
I define existence as "what is dynamic and interactive".

I don't think that's the proper definition of existence. That might be what existence happens to be but it's certainly not the definition of existence. Donald Trump happens to be old but that's not what/who he is by definition.

Existence is that which exists, is objectively real, whatever that is.

Quote :
This is why I specifically define "absolute" as immutable, and indivisible

That's not the official definition of the word "absolute". This is important because it fosters confusion. The word "absolute" does not mean immutable. It also does not mean indivisible. What it means is "total" or "complete".

Quote :
The glass does not exist independently form every other phenomenon.

If you mean that the glass of water is unaffected by every other phenomenon, I agree. However, I don't see the relevance of that.

What's relevant is that when people use the word "glass" they do not refer to the entire universe.

Quote :
you arbitrarily isolate one stone, from all other stones, from the mountain, from the planet, from the galaxy, so as to prove to yourself that there is a "one".

No. I define what "one rock" means and then I set out to determine whether there is a portion of reality that can be represented by that symbol.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 9:23 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:

Alright. That's a rather unusual definition. I thought that universe and cosmos are synonymous. Google agrees with me.
Yes, Google is very unbiased and reliable.
The difference between "universe" and "cosmos", is the same as between "veritas" and "aletheia".
English is based on the Latin, which is a corruption of the original Greek meanings.
Read Heidegger on the subject.

Quote :
It's very difficult to tell what you're trying to say.

At one point, you said that there is no "one". That in itself is a very strange statement. Let me ask: what does it mean to say "There is a one"? It does not look like proper English to me. What you can say is "There is one apple on the desk". That's a meaningful statement that you can empirically test. I believe there is such a desk somewhere in the universe at this very point in time.
And yet, one refers to everything and anything....because it's a human abstraction.
Unless you can show me a "singularity" existing outside your mind, or a mind.

By the way "a" also implies "one".
A cat, a dog, a pile of horse shit....a turd...a moron....a genius.
All fuckin' "a"s.

Quote :
No, you did not fabricate an ideal, you merely defined a word.
A "word" referring to an idea, and not to anything in the world.
Words refer to ideas - abstractions - but not all abstractions refer to phenomena in the world.  

"One" in this case, as you used it, is similar to the word "it". Everything is an "it"....but no "it" exists outside the mind.

Another good example is the word "here" and "now".
The word never refers to the same space/time piece it arbitrarily cuts-away....because all is in flux. So the words "here?now" always refer to different segments of space/time.  
Cosmos is expanding, and we are on a spinning planet rotating around a star, called "sun" which is also rotating around a galactic core - black hole - which is accelerating in space...so where is the here/now"?
it is a mental construct referring to an individual - who is also changing - using himself as the reference point to delineate a border cutting away a segment of space/time it then calls "here/now".
The segment is always different...but the human brain cannot perceive this, being encompassed by its limited sensual acuity.  

Same thing occurs when you point to an apple. It is never the same apple. Every time you name it it has altered in some infinitesimal degree.
It's a reference to your memory...representing a continuum you've named "one apple".
A week later you're in an orchard and you see another "one apple" - one is a metaphor referring to a abstraction in your head, which happens to be similar to other abstractions, which are named "apples" - a pattern.

Quote :
If I first say that a complete man is a man who has four limbs and then proceed to state that such men exist, there is no way in hell you could deny such a statement by saying "Well, that man right there is dynamic, he is not a being but a becoming, so he is never complete". That would be a case of not listening to what the person is saying.
Your use of the word "complete" is in reference to a pattern ....and precedent.
A continuum refers to a repeating sequence - a pattern. This continuum is what "complete" represents.

The man is not "complete" because he hasn't stopped changing. If he were complete he would stop changing.
Man is never Being he is Becoming. A million years from now man may have six limbs, or three.
Your use of "compete is in reference to a pattern, representing a continuum which is a product of a dynamic relationship between a reproductive population (human) and its environment.

But man, no matter how many limbs he has, is never finalized....he is never complete.
He may have four limbs but he may also have four IQ brain cells, or four nipples, or four testicles.

He may be symmetrical and proportional....but never perfectly so, and never in every given time.  

Quote :
You do not fabricate a complete man. What you do is you define a word and then set out to see whether there is a part of reality that can be represented by that word.
That's the inverse method - Nihilism.
First you find a phenomenon, and then you give it a word, defining the phenomenon using words.
You do not begin with the word.
Quote :
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Amen brother!!!

That's what Nihilists and Desperate Degenerates do.
I can define God in whatever way I like, and then go out looking for phenomena that adhere to my definition?
Is that your method?

I define 'god" as a hairy bald transvestite with three teets. See ya in a dozen or so years. I'm off hunting freaks.

Quote :
I don't think that's the proper definition of existence. That might be what existence happens to be but it's certainly not the definition of existence. Donald Trump happens to be old but that's not what/who he is by definition.

Existence is that which exists, is objectively real, whatever that is.
Basic rule:
Never include the word you are defining in the definition.

So, what is "objectively real" is your definition of existence; and "whatever that is" is your qualification of it?
I think we've reached a road block, an impasse, a cul de sac... and I sense a coming completion coming... or a traumatic stop.

Quote :
That's not the official definition of the word "absolute". This is important because it fosters confusion. The word "absolute" does not mean immutable. It also does not mean indivisible. What it means is "total" or "complete".
Well, I'm sorry I do not adhere to conventional uses of words.
Still no immutable, indivisible...whatever it is you call it. No singularity.

No such thing as "total" or "complete". Not unless you arbitrarily exclude most of space/time and create a noetic space/time.
Then a complete and total bottle of coke, will be purchased at the corner store - it will remain total and complete forever, in your mind...in memory.  
You'll fondly recall that total full, complete, bottle forever...for just a moment in space time....it was....perfect.

Quote :
If you mean that the glass of water is unaffected by every other phenomenon, I agree. However, I don't see the relevance of that.

What's relevant is that when people use the word "glass" they do not refer to the entire universe.
Therein lies the problem.
The relevance is that then these same minds jump to conclusions about other words they also consider total and complete.

In your finite space/time, which you've arbitrarily bordered off, you can produce complete totals....because it's all in your mind. In the real world there are no such borders....and the cosmos is not cut-off and segmented to satisfy your conceptions.  

So, be happy that in your mind you are "perfect, complete, and total".
The question then arises: why are you here?
You are complete...what is lacking that makes you come here? Even if you are bored or are looking for a laugh, then this contradicts your complete totality...as it reveals a lack, a need. You are totally all you need - you are complete and perfect.
Why do you open yourself up to the Universe"?

Quote :
No. I define what "one rock" means and then I set out to determine whether there is a portion of reality that can be represented by that symbol.
Indeed...and I'm interested in integrating all those segments into a cohesive world-view.
I'm not merely interested in utility...because then I would not be discussing philosophy, but fornicating, drinking, eating and having fun like a manimal.

I mean, for a manimal a rock is a rock....why think of anything beyond this simple complete and total fact?
One rock....two rocks....one ball....two balls.
One joint, another joint...absolutely high....absolutely fantastic.
One complete perfect pussy...
Complete bliss.
The absolute end.

Carry on.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 21, 2019 9:44 pm

I remember yesterday it was around noon. I felt total and complete...in need of nothing.
I felt perfect.
From about 12:15:45 to 12:15:48...then I felt an itch and had to scratch my balls.
When I scratched them too hard and hurt myself, it made me curse and punch the wall, which almost broke my knuckle....then I fainted....woke up feeling woozy. Mot so perfect any more. A bit thirsty, so not so complete.
But those 3 seconds were total and absolute bliss.

I think I'll segment them off, and store them in my "memory palace" to remember them in years to come.
3 seconds of complete and utter perfection.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in my own clumsy way, is that those 3 seconds of time changed my mind about many things. I experienced the absolute so vividly that I am now reworking my entire world-view.
I'm calling it "Existence Exists Existing".
Defined as a flaming torch, blazing like a universal haemorrhoid.
I'm off to prove it.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 6:31 am

To put it another way:
There are no "qualia" no indivisible, immutable atoms, no static complete final particles...no singularity...no uni-verse.
There are only dynamic processes - some with a repeating sequence (order), and some with no repeating sequence (chaos); multiplicity, rather than singularity.
These dynamic repeating sequences are frozen in the mind into abstractions - converted to "things", ideas/ideals.

There is no "fullness" nothing is ever "complete," final, perfect, unless one separates it, noetically, from space/time to create a mental enclosure - an abstraction.
No Being. Only Becoming.

The human body is porous and fragile.....it is never satiated. The feeling of satisfaction is an ephemeral state based on partial awareness.
Once you feed one need, another takes its place.
Nothing is omnipotent, or omniscient.
Even the concept of "self" is never completed, fulfilled, "perfect" but a process towards fulfilment and perfection - a continuum.
We idealize this state as "God" - the projection of man's "perfect" "complete" absolute state of Being.

An organic "form" (physical body symmetry/proportionality) is the result of a relationship with its environment.
Environment is constantly changing, forcing a constant adaptation.
Such processes are slow, in relation to a human lifespan, so we cannot perceive them, unless we sample vast expanses of space/time - via historical narratives - to perceive these constant changes.

In "dog shows" dogs are compared to an idealized form, particular to each breed - physical proportionality.
A particular dog is "perfect" in relation to this ideal breed form.
But the dog itself is never perfect as an organism, because it needs, and lacks, and though it may be physically close to "perfect" (symmetrically and proportionally) within a specific space/time, it is not entirely so in every aspect of its becoming for an eternity. There is always something which is missing, lacking....

Evidence of our incomplete state is hunger, thirst, any physical and mental need/desire.
We feel the absence of an absolute final state, as a longing, a hunger for final and complete satiation.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 11:24 am

Quote :
Yes, Google is very unbiased and reliable.

It's not only Google, it's the entire universe. I can't find a single person who defines the word "universe" the way you do.

Can you cite a source?

Quote :
A "word" referring to an idea, and not to anything in the world.
Words refer to ideas - abstractions - but not all abstractions refer to phenomena in the world.

Pretty much everyone agrees that there are "whole grains" out there in the real world.

Quote :
The man is not "complete" because he hasn't stopped changing. If he were complete he would stop changing.

The man is complete because he has four limbs. End of story. Mind you, I am sure he is not complete in the way you use the word, but he is complete in the way imaginary Tom uses that word.

Quote :
Man is never Being he is Becoming. A million years from now man may have six limbs, or three.

A million years from now on, triangles may have more than a billion sides. But only if you change the definition of the word "triangle". If you don't, triangles will never have more than three sides. The definition prohibits it.

Quote :
That's the inverse method - Nihilism.

Right. So Ancient Greeks were nihilists merely because they created some of their symbols without knowing whether they can ever be used to represent something that exists. (I am talking about mythological creatures.)

Quote :
You do not begin with the word.

I am rolling my eyes.

Quote :
Basic rule:
Never include the word you are defining in the definition.

You just ignored the fact that your definition of existence is wrong.

Quote :
Well, I'm sorry I do not adhere to conventional uses of words.
Still no immutable, indivisible...whatever it is you call it. No singularity.

If you did, however, you'd understand I've never claimed what you think I've claimed (: Poor use of language is what allows people to misunderstand other people.

Quote :
You'll fondly recall that total full, complete, bottle forever...for just a moment in space time....it was....perfect.

Nah, it was full for a little longer. I was thirsty but not THAT thirsty.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Magnus, are you on the autistic spectrum?
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:


It's not only Google, it's the entire universe. I can't find a single person who defines the word "universe" the way you do.

Can you cite a source?
The source is the word itself.
Uni = one
Verse.

Cosmos does not mean that.
Cosmos [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ergo "cosmetics".

Quote :
Pretty much everyone agrees that there are "whole grains" out there in the real world.
That's why "everyone" is part of the masses...mediocrity.
And only a few are "philosophers".

Quote :
The man is complete because he has four limbs. End of story. Mind you, I am sure he is not complete in the way you use the word, but he is complete in the way imaginary Tom uses that word.
No he would be "complete" if he would not be in need of anything more.

Quote :
A million years from now on, triangles may have more than a billion sides. But only if you change the definition of the word "triangle". If you don't, triangles will never have more than three sides. The definition prohibits it.
Triangle is another human abstraction.

Quote :
Right. So Ancient Greeks were nihilists merely because they created some of their symbols without knowing whether they can ever be used to represent something that exists. (I am talking about mythological creatures.)
Greek mythology, including their gods, were representations of natural phenomena.
Some mythological creatures were metaphors for ideas...such as Centaur was a concept made of two parts.
[Κένταυρος]
Κεντα - Ταυρος = "spur" of "bovine". An indication of wealth. A Centaur was a cow herder, so a rich man had more than one.
Κεντο-αυρα = "weave" of "aura" - indicating an individuals spirit: part beastly instinct part rational civilized - gene/meme.
The term had a double meaning.

I will not go into every single mythological metaphor for you.
Each one represents a real phenomenon.

Quote :
You just ignored the fact that your definition of existence is wrong.
Existence dynamic and interactive.
Nothing wrong there.
If you can show me one existing phenomenon that is not....then I will concede.

Quote :
If you did, however, you'd understand I've never claimed what you think I've claimed (: Poor use of language is what allows people to misunderstand other people.
I know.

Quote :
Nah, it was full for a little longer. I was thirsty but not THAT thirsty.
That little longer is part of your misunderstanding.
It makes it all seem absolutely perfect.

Take care.


I am glad you are complete and perfect and total and whole.
Your actions speak otherwise.
What does the complete perfect you seek, and in the seeking what does it admit without intending to?
A lack.

All is process. No being....becoming.
What I know of you your ego is HUUUUUGE.
And fragile.
Nothing perfect about you, but only in your mind.

Nothing perfect and complete about me, either.
We would need nothing if were were complete.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 12:40 pm

polishyouth wrote:
Magnus, are you on the autistic spectrum?
More Narcissus.

Completely and absolute perfect in all ways.
Big and fragile ego.... egos are like balloons. The larger they become that more stretched thin they are.
Inflated with air, creating a vulnerable outer surface.

One "prick," and they pop.

Remember how he left, months and months ago?
He started insulting me, without provocation and then went to ILP.
He's back for vengeance.....my name keeps popping up over there. He can't escape my shadow.

And to think, I was especially careful when speaking with him, having realized how delicate his ego was.

I recall correcting his definition of "indifference".
He thought it meant "focus"....when that's the opposite of indifference.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 3:08 pm

Quote :
The source is the word itself.
Uni = one
Verse.

The word "one" does not imply finite space and time. That would be your own definition of the word which is not shared by anyone outside of this forum.

Quote :
That's why "everyone" is part of the masses...mediocrity.
And only a few are "philosophers".

When I said everyone I literally meant everyone including "philosophers" such as yourself. You too agree that there are "whole grains" out there in the world but you also disagree because, well, you have to disagree.

Quote :
No he would be "complete" if he would not be in need of anything more.

Let me quote myself:

"Mind you, I am sure he is not complete in the way you use the word, but he is complete in the way imaginary Tom uses that word."

Did I not acknowledge he's not complete in the way you use the word?

You can't say I did not. But let's pretend I never said anything. It's easier that way.

Quote :
Triangle is another human abstraction.

We all know that the word "triangle", as well as the underlying concept, is a symbol invented by humans.

Quote :
I will not go into every single mythological metaphor for you.
Each one represents a real phenomenon.

What about geometric shapes? Were they metaphors too? And what about the person who invented them? Is he a nihilist too? He must be a nihilist because he invented the concept of perfect circle without first discovering one. In fact, he never discovered nor proved the existence one. What a degenerate.

Quote :
Existence dynamic and interactive.
Nothing wrong there.

Existence might be dynamic and interactive but existence is not by definition dynamic and interactive.

Donald Trump might be old but he is not by definition old.

Philosophers might be men but they are not by definition men.

And so on and so forth.

Quote :
If you can show me one existing phenomenon that is not....then I will concede.

Until then you can use words any way you like.

Quote :
That little longer is part of your misunderstanding.

Apparently, you have lost the ability to speak proper English.

Quote :
What I know of you your ego is HUUUUUGE.
And fragile.
Nothing perfect about you, but only in your mind.

Last I heard, that's what people think of you. Sure, they also think the same of me, but not to the same extent.

Quote :
More Narcissus.

Completely and absolute perfect in all ways.

More projection.

Quote :
Big and fragile ego.... egos are like balloons. The larger they become that more stretched thin they are.
Inflated with air, creating a vulnerable outer surface.

One "prick," and they pop.

Remember how he left, months and months ago?
He started insulting me, without provocation and then went to ILP.
He's back for vengeance.....my name keeps popping up over there. He can't escape my shadow.

And to think, I was especially careful when speaking with him, having realized how delicate his ego was.

I recall correcting his definition of "indifference".
He thought it meant "focus"....when that's the opposite of indifference.

I suggest cutting the crap and sticking to the subject.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 3:18 pm


_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 3:31 pm

There is no "one", other than as an idea/ideal.

Existence is dynamic, the mind uses static symbols, such as one/nil....

The word "one" implies a singularity.
But it is most often used as a universal symbol of one's own abstraction - or the simplification/generalization in his mind.

"There's one"
"One what?"
The question asks for a boundary to explode reality, so as to focus the mind on an encompassed part of space/time.
So, "one" can be anything and everything. It's an idea.

Quote :
u·ni·verse
/ˈyo͞onəˌvərs/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: universe; noun: the universe

all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.
synonyms: cosmos, macrocosm, totality, whole world, Creation, (outer) space, the heavens, the firmament; More
infinity, all existence
"the laws of the physical universe"
a particular sphere of activity, interest, or experience.
plural noun: universes
"the front parlor was the hub of her universe"
synonyms: province, world, sphere, preserve, domain, circle, milieu, territory, quarter
"the ROM chip clearly belongs to the universe of hardware"
another term for universal set.
noun: universe of discourse; plural noun: universes of discourse

Origin
late Middle English: from Old French univers or Latin universum, neuter of universus ‘combined into one, whole’, from uni- ‘one’ + versus ‘turned’ (past participle of vertere ).

Compare this with the term "Cosmos".
About as similar as the word "veritas" and "aletheia".

Heidegger, Martin wrote:
With regard to the Latin name for the true, verum, we shall keep two incidents in mind: 1. Verum, ver-, meant originally enclosing, covering. The Latin verum belongs to the same realm of meaning as the Greek αληθες, the uncovered – precisely by signifying the exact opposite of αληθες: the closed off. 2. But now because verum is counter to falsum, and because the essential domain of the imperium is decisive for verum and falsum and their opposites, the sense of ver-, namely enclosed and cover, becomes basically that of covering for security against. Ver is now the maintaining-oneself, the being-above; ver becomes the opposite of falling. Verum is the remaining constant, the upright that which is directed to what is superior because it is directing from above. Verum is rectum (regere, ‘the regime’), the right, iustum. For the Romans the realm of concealment and disconcealment does not at all come to be, although it strives in that direction in ver, the essential realm determining the essence of truth. Under the influence of the imperial, verum becomes forthwith ‘being-above,’ directive for what is right; veritas is then rectitude, ‘correctness,’ we would say. The originally Roman stamp given to the essence of truth, which solidly establishes the all-pervading basic character of the essence of truth in the Occident, rejoins an unfolding of the essence of truth that begin already with the Greeks and that at the same time marks the inception of Western metaphysics.

But you keep with conventional thinking...you'll be fine.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 4:21 pm

Quote :
There is no "one", other than as an idea/ideal.

You keep saying "There is no 'one'" as if it were a valid English sentence.

If what you're saying is "There are no things in the universe the number of which is one" then you are wrong because right now, as we're speaking, the number of bottles on my table is one. Trust me.

Quote :
"There's one"
"One what?"

One bottle. There's one bottle on my table. There are no TWO bottles, no THREE bottles, no A BILLION bottles, no AN INFINITY NUMBER OF bottles, no ZERO bottles. There is exactly ONE bottle on my table.

Super-simple stuff. But you have to make everything complicated because, well, as you know it yourself, that's how people hide they have no clue what they are talking about.

But I am sure you know your way around this.

Quote :
The question asks for a boundary to explode reality, so as to focus the mind on an encompassed part of space/time.
So, "one" can be anything and everything. It's an idea.

No. One bottle can't be anything. For example, one bottle can't be two bottles.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 4:47 pm

A valid English sentence with no external reference.
"A Leprechaun ate my lunch" is a "valid English sentence".

There is no complete whole, ergo "one" refers to an abstraction" encompassing a portion of space/time..
The "conventional meaning of words," is covered the Heidegger quote.
The vid implies something about the "line" which is what shapes are made of - "shortest distance between two points", I believe. But point in space/time is non-existent.
Usually referring to a relationship, or a geographical relationship that is continuously changing - a theoretical concept encompassed by a segmentation of existence that remain in memory as idea.
It covers shapes like "triangle" "circle" etc.

One can be anything and everything.
"One" genius, "One" imbecile".
One pebble, one beach, one ocean, one drop of water, one particle, one hydrogen.

"Bottle" is mutable, divisible, incomplete and constantly changing.
All is dynamic = existent.
All is interactive = dynamic.
Greeks called it "energy" - at work.

Oh...and I know what I am talking about, and with whom...which includes you.
All is a work in progress.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 4:51 pm

The vid and the quote covers your earlier bullshit.

How long is a piece of string?
It's so simple and obvious, for someone on your level.
Just cut and measure from tip to tip.

How is universe and cosmos the same?
For someone on your level, it's a tautology.
Open a dictionary and there you have it ready made for ya.


Now you can play with bottles on a table.
Two bottles of beers on the wall, if one of those bottles should happen to fall....how many bottles of beer on the wall?
One!!!
Evidence at last.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Magnus Anderson

Magnus Anderson

Gender : Male Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Sirmium

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 5:02 pm

What does "There is no one" mean? Have you ever heard anyone say such a thing?

The word "dynamic" simply means "changing". A thing is said to be dynamic if it is changing in certain regards. You can have a single thing that is changing. A single apple, for example, is said to be changing over time if at least one of its constituent elements (such as a single molecule) is changing over time. The word "one" and the word "dynamic" are not mutually exclusive. That's English language. Everything else is Satyr-language that makes Satyr blind to how English language works. Being blind to English language makes Satyr blind to what people who speak proper English have to say.
Back to top Go down
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 5:12 pm

Quote :

one
/wən/
Learn to pronounce
number
cardinal number: one

   1.
   the lowest cardinal number; half of two; 1.
   "there's only room for one person"
       a single person or thing, viewed as taking the place of a group.
       plural noun: ones
       "they would straggle home in ones and twos"
       synonyms: a single, a solitary, a sole, a lone
       "only one person came"
       single; just one as opposed to any more or to none at all (used for emphasis).
       "her one concern is to save her daughter"
       denoting a particular item of a pair or number of items.
       "electronics is one of his hobbies"
       denoting a particular but unspecified occasion or period.
       determiner: one
       "one afternoon in late October"
       synonyms: some, any, a certain
       "one day they'll come"
       used before a name to denote a person who is not familiar or has not been previously mentioned; a certain.
       "he worked as a clerk for one Mr. Ming"
       informal•North American
       a noteworthy example of (used for emphasis).
       "the actor was one smart-mouthed troublemaker"
       identical; the same.
       adjective: one
       "all types of training meet one common standard"
       synonyms: only, single, solitary, sole
       "her one concern was her daughter"
       one year old.
       one o'clock.
       "it's half past one"
       informal•US
       a one-dollar bill.
       informal
       an alcoholic drink.
       noun: one
       "a cool one after a day on the water"
       informal
       a joke or story.
       "the one about the chicken farmer and the spaceship"
       a size of garment or other merchandise denoted by one.
       noun: one; plural noun: ones
       a domino or dice with one spot.

pronoun
pronoun: one

   1.
   referring to a person or thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
   "her mood changed from one of moroseness to one of joy"
   2.
   a person of a specified kind.
   "you're the one who ruined her life"

Conventinoal understanding and use of the cocnept.

"One" like "a"...as in "a pill", "a cow", "a" dog...."a" moron...."an" imbecile"...
Or "it"...."it is there". Or "the"..."the cat"...."the" mouse...."the" cloud...."the" sun.
It's all "the".
Can be used to refer to a quantity of a particular kind - or of a specific pattern, within an arbitrary "piece" of space/time.

"ONE" as an ontology refers to a singularity - an absolute.
One God
One World
Oneness
There is no such singularity. "One" has no ontological meaning.

Existence = dynamic....Energy - Εν-εργο = At work, in the process of...
Interactive.
What is described as "cut off," independent, free from other energies, is non-existent - such as "a" bottle that exist as "a" singularity within "a" noetic piece of space/time that is unaffected by the rest of the world - so it is "complete".

Dynamic implies interactive - an exchange of energies.
So, a bottle is never complete because it is consonantly interacting within existence - bombarded by bosons, or radiation, losing mass, deteriorating....decomposing....
The moment is has been manufactured it begins deteriorating.

Will this bullshit continue for much longer?
I mean the motive is obvious.
Despite your perfect complete totality, you have needs exposing your lack.
Not a complete man at all.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν


Last edited by Satyr on Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 5:21 pm

A pattern is a continuum, not a singularity.
So when I say "one river" I mean the continuum of water flowing down a specific hill, over time, held together in my mind as a singular event.
the river is, in fact, dynamic....never the same.
Ergo...I cannot step twice in the same river.



For a mediocre mind, this sentence is nonsensical...because in his mind he can step twice, thrice, a multitude of time in the "same river".
just as it can measure a string...precisely, completely, finally...absolutely.
But a simpleton always takes his simplifications/generalizations literally.  

So, "one bottle" is always the "same bottle" - it is "perfect" and "complete".
Just like the river....the ocean, the planet....his English to Swedish Dictionary.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Satyr
Daemon
Satyr

Gender : Male Pisces Posts : 21912
Join date : 2009-08-24
Age : 54
Location : Flux

Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 5:31 pm

Why can't a string be measured precisely?
Seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it? I mean, I measured one just the other day.

Why does Heidegger claim that "veritas" means the opposite of what "aletheia" meant?
Did he not take into account conventional understanding of "truth"?
Did he not read a dictionary? It says it clearly....in regards to universe.....it means cosmos.
Case closed.
It's in "the book of conventional thinking".
What did I say about attaching words to deeds - or noumena with phenomena.

Why did Heraclitus make such a claim, that "no man can 'ever' step in the same river twice"?
Do not men do so daily?

How is this related to a "bottle" and how "complete" and "total" and "perfect" it is?

I know.
But mediocre minds cannot know.
It would be a waste of my time to even try....though I have repeatedly.
Sometimes you cannot change what nature has produced. The gods cannot be challenged by mere mortals, such as I.
Best to let things take their course.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν


Last edited by Satyr on Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://satyr-s-sanatorium.forumotion.com/
Sponsored content




Absolute - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Absolute Absolute - Page 2 Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Absolute
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Know Thyself :: AGORA-
Jump to: