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gafr

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PostSubject: spiritual essence Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:04 am

I think it's impossible for your spiritual essence to die..
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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:40 am

And what is this immortal essence?

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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:27 pm

If it cannot die, then it was never alive in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Metaphors of different sorts are effective at conveying ones thoughts and theories to another as ultimately they act as a hybrid of an abbreviation and navigation manual that is easier to pick up and understand as it is expressed, initially, on a level that is intuitive to us through relating to everyday concepts and experiences. The danger of that as I percieve it is that the 'unwrapping' of the metaphorical 'tinfoil' from the initial expression leaves too much room for almost unrestricted interpretations unless the person is honest and, at least in a degree, has the intellectual capacity of the creator of the metaphor. That or it is taken literally word for word like 'all men are equal', 'god is dead'(presupossing an existance of an actual god) etc. Actually this could be applied to all language in degrees as all of it is in some sense a metaphor but that is taking things out of context here and I have not thought about it at all.
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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:53 pm

Those who desire immortality are those who fear death the most, the greatest cowards.
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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:35 pm

In your opinion, do you think there is such a thing as absolute nothingness?
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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:55 am

There are no absolutes.

All is existence....existence is interactivity - dynamic.
Nothingness would be static, still, immutable indivisible, stagnation.

Nothingness is an idea(l)....negating existence.
Somethingness is an interpretation, taking abstractions, representations in the mind literally.
There is no 'thing'.
'Thing' is the abstraction of a process, the past made present, and appearing and being interpreted, converted into an abstraction - noumenon.
No-Thing is a negation of the 'some-thing', where 'thing' is taken for granted, and understood as an absolute.
It's part of language.
Absolutes are part of language, because the mind works on binary code - 1/0, and art, including language reflects this.
This is how the sentence 'there are absolutely no absolutes' is a self-contradiction even though it is correct.
The absolute has already been taken for granted, with no evidence, no reason, simply based on the mind's methodology....forcing an absolute negation that negates what is non-existent - the absent absolute.
Christians do the same thing with the absolute concept of their one-god.
Nihilists do this with all their concepts. They consider this absence a 'negative'....because they need it psychologically......when it is a positive.
They fill in the void of this absent absolute by projecting into world their language based, referring to their noumena, 'corrections' or fulfillment.

'Thing' refers to the apparent. This is why we say 'some-thing'....leaving it vague.
The apparent is the present - the past made presence.
Past manifests as present, interacts and becomes apparent.    

So, there is no absolute some-thing either. There is only process, fluidity, Flux: interacting Energies....some ordered/patterned and some chaotic/random.

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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:40 am

absolutes are the two poles of binary thinking.
Absolute order <> Absolute chaos
Singularity (1) - Void (0)
Being - Nothingness

The brain works on this binary system - on/off switch.
On = neural pulse flowing through neural cell
Off = no neural pulse flowing through neural cell.

Neural cells are created in mind, as memory....and are clustered. The pulse triggers them, like light flowing through a movie film, and striking the particular picture in the sequence.
This triggers a cascade, similar to the sequence of pictures in a movie reel...only the roles are reversed....whereas in the old movie reels the light source was fixed and the pictures flowed before it, casting the images on the screen, in the mind the neural pulse is active and the neural clusters are fixed.
Relatively speaking because in essence the difference between pulse and cell is one of rat of vibration - matter differing from energy, as a general category, in the rate it vibrates/oscillates - its dynamic rhythms.
Matter = slow, Energy = fast....in relation to man's metabolic rate.

If we take a single man, an organism, as being the unity of patterns, in relative balance, what we mean is that the different patterns, the different Energies vibrating, interrelate as to produce a higher attraction than the repulsion existing between them.
So, if two patterns would normally respell each other, with the addition of two or more, this repulsion is counterbalanced, producing an excess of attraction, and therefore an ephemeral unity.

Attrition and Repulsion refer to the degree of harmony between patterned and non-patterned Energies.
of course random Energies, chaotic, can only repel, so they cannot form unities.  
An organism is a congruence of patterns that has balanced out repulsion and attraction producing an excess of attraction.
This is the aura some speak of.
Life force.
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It's mentioned in many eastern meditative practices.
This aura is the sum total of patterns, participating in the unity called organism, interacting, and producing a shared attraction/repulsion energy field.
Each individual has a slightly different resonance, because organ hierarchies and proportionality and symmetry, determine metabolic rates.
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We feel this aura, though we are not always aware of it.....when we are in its proximity.
Some have mistaken this for clairvoyance, telepathy, women call it intuition.
The organism's state is resonating outwards as an attraction/repulsion field of effect.
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Like a planet's magnetic field.  
In fact the earth's magnetic field affects organic auras.
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If our aura is closer in resonance to that of another, we feel mysteriously attracted to them.
If not we feel repelled, repulsed by them.

Someone said it...there is no fear in anti-homosexual, racial positions....there is repulsion.
Not homophobia, no fear...only nausea.
it's the natural reaction to what is toxic.
Toxic defined as that which does not harmonize with the organism, its organic constitution - its essence.
You may call it 'soul'.

It's this aura that is usually called 'spirit'.

Soul refers to the continuum of memories, going further back than one's birth.
Ego is self becoming aware - Self is the continuum of past experiences which may not be lucid - Soul refers to this continuum of memories receding into the immutable, determining past.


So Ego/Self are the dynamic presence of a manifest past - Soul.
The Soul is not eternal....but it is longer in existence, as it refers to a continuum going all the sway back to the beginning of life on this planet, and stretches towards an undetermined future.
Soul is called immortal, though it is not....because the individual ego/self may die while the continuum of memories can go on, through reproduction, and/or through language.

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gafr

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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:06 am

Quote :
The absolute has already been taken for granted, with no evidence....

What would count as evidence for it?


Quote :
Nihilists do this with all their concepts. They consider this absence a 'negative'....because they need it psychologically......when it is a positive.

Why is it a positive?
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PostSubject: Re: spiritual essence Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:29 am

gafr wrote:
Quote :
The absolute has already been taken for granted, with no evidence....

What would count as evidence for it?
The experience of something immutable, indivisible, complete, whole...and not simply stating, naming, because that only refers to a mental construct.
Noumenon = absoltue
Phenomena = fluctuating interactions

In short... one would have to show an absolute, not declare it, state it, speak of it.
One would have to show an immutable, indivisible, complete, perfect, whole...a one, a singularity.
To show all, so as to allow all to see it for themselves, to test it, challenge it, verify it, validate its presence.
That which exists free from linguistics, but is referred to linguistically, and is experienced sensually.   

Show us a ONE, for starters; the most abstract concept of an absolute.

The human demands that his noetic construct be real outside his mind, and when he realizes they are not he becomes nihilistic: either pure authentic nihilist, declaring all meaningless, and all words equally void of reference....or 'positive' hypocritical nihilistic, projecting his noetic constructs as underlying, beyond, immanent - the forever not yet present, not presence - replacing the observable, the empirical - taking his own abstractions literally, his own metaphors and myths literally, his own noumena (abstractions) as more real than the phenomena, his own reactions to world, his own interpretations of world as absolute truths.

Nihilism shares a negation of the apparent...the phenomenon....pure, authentic feminine nihilists, apply this negation selectively or completely, dismissing segments of the sensually experienced, or all of the sensually experienced, as equally nil. The hypocritical, masculine, 'positive' nihilists attempts to empower himself and seduce the feminine in others, by proposing a noetic fabrication to fulfill the needs of the desperate and lost with a literal presentation of his own, or an adopted abstraction.
Negation of sensual experience = dismissal of phenomenon as either too much to handle or too little to satisfy.
Nihilist looks at himself in the mirror and asks: "Is that all I am?"...or "That's not good enough, there must be more to me".
Past manifesting as presence is dismissed as superficial and illusory, as too much to cope with, or too little to accept to gratify.

Abstractions being a fabrication, based on interpretations, is non-existent outside his mind, so he attempts to increase its effect by indoctrinating, seducing, infecting the feeble with it - viral infection or parasitism.  
It pretends to be fertilization, but the fact that it leads to no pragmatic outcome; it remains a noetic theory, infecting the minds of those who have been infected by it.
The best example is Abrahamism (Judaism - Christianity, Islam), and Christianity, in particular, as the most popular example.  
Here we have an example of 'positive' Nihilism, masculine nihilism, seducing billions of feminine psychologies, with constructs promising other-worldly, super-natural, contrary to experience, fabrications.
The experience is reduced to superficial, illusory, or completely void of substance, and replaced with an occult perceptive only the few, the initiated can partake in.
Only the 'true believer' will be saved.
The real is converted to linguistic narratives - metaphors, allegories that are then taken literally because they offer a convenient comforting solution to existential need/suffering and angst.
Superstition is always the way the mediocre masses, the psychologically feeble, assimilate the insights of wisdom and genius, which require more than just intelligence.       

gafr wrote:
Quote :
Nihilists do this with all their concepts. They consider this absence a 'negative'....because they need it psychologically......when it is a positive.
Why is it a positive?
Reality, that which exists, is 'positive' and that which does not exist is negative.
A cosmos with no universal morality, no God, no universal meaning, purpose, telos, is what made life possible....and it exists.
What the human brain fabricates, and mistakes or demands to be real, is his reaction or his interpretation of the real, projected as a replacement of it; more real than the experienced.
Moderns conveniently either dismiss all, selectively, as meaningless, as being social constructs, so as to escape the past (nature), and the pain, suffering and compensation, coping this requires, or they demand that their constructs, that have no external reference, be taken as a better alternatives to the experienced, justifying it using mysticism, romantic idealism, manipulating their own emotions and those of the needy, the desperate, the lost, using pretty words, and incredible, fantastic, fabrications.  

What exists, though it is lacking what you, or I, want, or need to cope with it, or expect (judge), is still the positive, because it makes our need, our awareness of existence, possible.
A cosmos with no absolute is what we emerge within, but to then demand that it also contain what we've constructed in our heads, and need to cope with it, is nihilistic.
That which exists is positive...that which does not, but only exists as an abstraction in our head, is not always so - idealism.

Ideas/ideals are either closer or further from the Real.
Three ways to determine this, in a cosmos where the real is dynamic, and not static....
#1- Application (first hand) - Experienced Cost/Benefit in relation to intent, motive, idea(l).
#2- Observation of Application (second hand) - Judged Cost/Benefit in relation to intent, motive, idea(l).
#3- The philosophical method (Theory) - Continuous juxtaposition of noumenon (interpretation) with phenomenon (interpreted).
Difference between knowing and understanding = understanding is the perception of patterns within the knowledge of data, or patterns...and then its juxtaposition with external relationships (meaning). Internal map, juxtaposed with external space/time, geography.

Degree of reliability from most to least, starting with #1....
Pragmatism superior to philosophy because philosophy can lack all pragmatic reference and effect, and remain forever perfect as theory, and forever validated by experience when costs/benefits are intervened upon.

Positive/Negative are human categories.
Cosmos, existence, is neither, and only is in relation to an observing, consciousness - life.
A way of interpreting, using what is known of self, as a standard - point 0 or point 1.  
Top<>Down Thinking begins with the one as its starting point.
Bottom<>Up Thinking begins with the nil.
This has been mistaken as a worshipping, or a preference, mostly because for the Top<>Down Thinkers, the one is such a absolute concept, with subjective definitions.
Bottom<>Up begins with ignorance and builds gnosis...it begins with the observable, the phenomenon, and constructs noumena, abstractions, theories.
It begins with power being a measure of powerlessness, strength being a measure of weakness....it makes of power an idea(l) one accumulates, or loses, over time.

In the case of 'positive' in the context I used it, it means that which exists independently from all interpretations of it - world independent from life.
The phenomenon independent form the noumenon. I realize that for something to appear there has to be a mind for which it is apparent....but I've also defined what phenomenon is: patterned and non-patterned Energies (inter)acting, and as interacting becoming apparent if and when consciousness emerges.
Interactivity is independent form life, from consciousness, and makes life and consciousness possible.
Phenomenon is the interaction in a world where consciousness emerges, and can be converted to noumenon, in more sophisticated brains.
So phenomenon/noumenon are in reference to life and consciousness, and positive/negative acquire their subjective definitions form there.
But interactions are neither positive/ or negative, independent from life. They just are.
They are what makes life possible, at least in this configuration of existence.
I am a proponent of the theory that recurrence is the reconfiguration of cosmos, but not always in the balance that would make life, as we know it, possible.
There may very well have existence a 'reality' where there was no life.

This is why I define existence this way:
Existence - that which is dynamic - (inter)active.
Of what?
Of patterned, or non-patterned Energies, which is another way of saying 'of ordering', or 'randomizing' .
Energies differing from mater/energy, in that it refers to vibrations/oscillations that may, or may not be ordered, or patterned, whereas matter/energy properly understood, are referring to a ordered rates of vibration/oscillation relative to the observing mind = faster/slower vibrations interpreted and categorized as matter/energy.

What is vibrating/osculating?
Possibility, when possibility is properly understood as space, and probability as matter/energy and its degrees of fluidity.
Space = possibility.
Time = rate of oscillating possibilities, relative to the observer - measure of change produced by (inter)activity.

Others have give this other names to make them more digestible, more comprehensible...Schopenhauer called it 'will', from where Nietzsche took it and gave it a motive...the circular 'will to life' became opened, liberated to the ambiguity of 'will to power'; liberating it from its self-reference, stoicism, that would make life unlivable, or the need/suffering life experience existence as, as too intolerable.
'Power' vague enough to mean anything.
It becomes subjectively determined.
Power is another way of saying - dynamic....vibration/oscillation...so will to power would be a living desire to accumulate, to appropriate, energies....or to appropriate possibilities and convert them to probabilities.
For many this vagueness permitted the reassertion of God, as that which wills, because the word 'will' is meaningless without consciousness....but it also implies a lack, as something willed which is not present, in this case the vagueness of 'power', which can be defined as omnipotence/omniscience.
Lack is properly understood as a need/desire only present in a living organism with motives.

I would like to believe that Nietzsche was not so vain as to attack Christianity so as to replace its concepts with his own.
It's why I try to be as direct and obvious as possible, not permitting feebleness to adopt my words to accommodate their needs.
I ascribe will to life, and only life.
Will = focus of aggregate energies. Therefore, focus is only possible for an organism with particular motives.
Power would then refer to such a motive, relative to others.  

Others have called this 'pathos', substituting the English passion with the more exotic, for most, Greek term.
Eros is associates with pathos, and it also means a kind of suffering, a type of need/desire.  

Others have called it 'god', for their own motives.
Others have called it 'love', or 'value', or 'affectance'....and so on and so on.
A game of semantics (linguistics) founded on psychological particularities, all adding their own nuance and exposing a private desire - need/suffering.  

Any word can be given to it because as 'possibility' it is open to any.        

What comes to mind is the double-slit experiment.....and how a particle is created when there is a measuring, observing consciousness freezing the 'wave' the vibration/oscillation into a point in space/time.....ergo it is consciousness, life that converts possibility, into a probability.

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