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Satyr
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PostSubject: Body Language Body Language EmptyFri May 04, 2018 1:34 pm

To adequately explain my positions on body language, what it is, how it works and so on, I have to begin by laying down the groundwork, as I see it, and build from there.
I'm a bottom<>up thinker, so I have to do this to make it comprehensible to others, and, primarily to myself.
I call this bottomBrevity is a virtue and I will try to be as succinct and clear as I can.
Nevertheless, the topic is complex and much more can be said about every part of it, but the topic is body language so this foundation has to be brief, and solid as possible, to make what follows make sense.

I begin with how man perceives existence.
Man converts existence to a duality, because without it there is no juxtaposition and without that there is no consciousness and no judgment.
Thinking is the juxtaposition of abstractions (noumena), formed by the synthesis of internal (esoteric), and external (empirical) data, with the apparent (phenomena), which is the perception of flux, or dynamic (inter)activity, that which is present/presence, interpreted the apparent.
An organism is this tension, this conflict, between self, and otherness.
It converts the flux, into dualities, by using the simplest method of on/off, and therefore the easiest to evolve.
In eastern traditions this dualism is conceptualized as yin/yang, in the west we conceptualized it, under the influence of Abrahamism as good/evil, and in secular contexts as positive/negative, and/or good/bad.
This on/off refers to systolic/diastolic metabolic rhythms, or cellular cycles, and to the simplest mechanism of neural energy flowing through neural clusters, triggering 'on', and no neural energies flowing through neural clusters, the state of 'off'.
These states are not absolutes, because the difference between energy and what we call matter is a difference in rate of (inter)activity relative to the observing organism, and its metabolic rhythms...so its a mater of relationships.
From this simplest neurological mechanism we get dualities, like good/bad, for starters referring to what is edible, and what is not edible, and from there we get the friend/foe, duality, and the fight/flight automatic reaction which becomes ingrained in the organisms DNA, as memory.
Male/Female is this dualism manifested as sexual specialization.
From this mechanism we also get binary logic, and our mathematics 1/0, duality, producing geometry and the extension of these binary codes in space time, forming lines and shapes that map out existence for the mind.
To conceptualize existence the mind must convert flux into dualities, like (inter)action, denoting a degree of harmony, is converted to the concepts of attraction/repulsion.
This duo signifies the relationship, which can be approached from the perceptive of degree of harmony and/or degree of disharmony, which is how patterned (order) and non-patterned (chaos) Energies (inter)act and by interacting become apparent.

The difference between what we call 'life' and the rest of existence, is memory.
What differentiates life and distinguishes it from the non-living, is that its (inter)actions are informed by a past, which is stored, as code....and we call this DNA.
For the living the past is never lost....it is always present, and this is why like needs and suffers.
Need/suffering is life experiencing the flux of existence, relative to its past.
We can say that for life the past is never forgotten, but is always made present, and that life is the constant challenging and reaffirming of the past, in relation to the present (presence) - the basis of evolution.
To remain as brief as possible, the difference between what we call 'higher' organisms and 'lower' ones, is that for the latter past is made present, and present constantly (inter)acts, but for the former there is an added element of the 'future'.
Past is made present, and then projected, as a form of preemption, into 'future'.

So lower organisms, or less-sophisticated ones are past made present - dualism; higher organisms, or more sophisticated ones, are a triad, with the addition of 'future = past/present/future.
In the Platonic paradigm this is represented by the triad of charioteer/reigns/stallions - reason/will/passions = mind/nervous system/body.
Christians took this and warped it into father/holy ghost/son.

We have an ascent, from duality to a triad.
This is the distinguishing factor separating man from all of existence and from other, known, life forms.
This triad is fundamental to comprehending body language, and psychology in general.
It immediately points to different relationships with existence, and with each other.
The mind/body divide, which I've analyzed in a thesis named Narcissism & Schizophrenia, is the root of nihilism and this current crisis of identity.
It's a form of institutionalized psychosis.
Compartmentalization, or newspeak, as Orwell named it , is this internal noetic compartmentalization expressed through the symbols of the nervous system, words.
Nihilism also produces institutionalized autism, which is a byproduct of socioeconomic specialization.

Passing over to our focus we've established the evolution of a triad, as a product of an advancement, from dualism (past made present), into a triad (past made present projected toward future).
This triad is the basis of our spirituality, philosophy, and our psychology.
In organic terms it is mind connected to body via the nervous system, which also includes the brain, as its processing hub.
Nervous system belongs to both and to neither, as it is the nexus where the physical is converted (translated) to energies, and where these energies are converted to mind, or consciousness.

As such we can say that language is the expression of the nervous system, first converting internal/external data to a medium the brain can process, and then re-converting them to (inter)actions (movement), and/or to art.
Art is the externalization of mental models (abstractions), via a medium. Could be marble, sound, colour, texture, etc.
Language is an rt-form, externalizing the mind's abstractions as sound - vocalizations, at first, and then as symbols, as it evolves in accordance with mental development.

In language we see the triad fully expressed as past (DNA), present (interaction), future (idea).
There are, therefore, three stratum to language, each corresponding to mind/nervous system/body.
All these are part of communication, or a conscious and sub-conscious level.

The body expresses itself, through automated processes not fully in the control, of the mind.
This is why body can judge in antithesis to the mind's judgment - genes conflicting with memes.
This conflict occurs in the nervous system, as anxiety....and comes out in language.
Even written language can have three tiered meanings, sometimes one contradicting the others: text/sub text/intent.
What words we choose, where in the sentence we place them, their frequency, all produces a linguistic melody.
There's the dictionary definition, facilitating communication, there's metaphor implying something vaguely, and then there's the motive which is expressed sometimes without the writer/speaker being conscious of it.
Body language should be added to the last part, only it is more clear when it is physical, and nor written.
The writer can go to great lengths to clear his text of his own unconscious messaging, but the actor, the speaker, cannot.
(Inter)activity is released in space/time and is not code, so it cannot be erased, or modified, nor can it be fully hidden.
The reason why we wear clothes is because of the body's honesty, that may contradict the mind's speech.
Body Language is the body expressing itself, through the nervous system, although the nervous system is not necessary, as in the case of plant. The human also emits odours, chemicals, energies into the world that circumvent the mediation of a nervous system. But even if they do go through the nervous system they cannot be fully controlled.
This is what Know Thyself refers to - a continuous effort to know self, meaning past made present, and direct it towards an unknown, unpredictable future.
We call this self-consciousness, and it may inhibit actions, and/or make them less graceful, fluid....because of the mediation of mind.


Body Language exposes the body's automated, memorized, reactions, and we call these 'tells' when they are not controlled or conscious to the actor.





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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptySat May 05, 2018 7:35 am


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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptySat May 05, 2018 8:43 am


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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptySat May 05, 2018 8:48 am

Satyr wrote:

@17:00 I think you can see "micro-expressions" in Ted Bundy's face. Flashing hints of an oncoming smiling as he talks about the victims.
He also reminds me of how a face looks like when someone is telling an "emotional" story while he is consciously accentuating his facial displays. He is consciously acting in that part.
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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptySat May 05, 2018 11:02 am

Females are genius in reading body language - deciphering subtle physical cues.
Their reproductive role depends on them figuring out the group's psychological dynamics, the social hierarchy, and placing herself within its midst - figuring out her position in relation to others.
This is why they gossip, as do men.

To make their talent more effective it has to remain intuitive, because rationalizing it would exclude data....a female compensates for her lack of clarity, with the awareness of subtlety that is then incorporated into a vague sensation they cannot rationalize, explain, define....but can feel.
Vagueness allows her to include into her 'mental models' data that would be rejected if it could not be included coherently...as in the case of reasoning.
This is where males fall behind. For them clarity is essential (being hunters), so they need to incorporate data into cohesive models. Males, therefore, reject all data that cannot be incorporated, or that contradicts cohesion.
Females use vagueness to assimilate data that contradicts other data, or that cannot be incorporated into a cohesive model.
She sacrifices quality for quantity. Depth of thought is replaced by breadth of thought.
This is how her mind can include larger amounts of data into her judgments.
This is automatic, because it is her body's genetic memories that are judging, and then sending this judgment to the brain where it is converted to sensation - an inexplicable feeling.
Women are also more emotional....they rely on their automatic reactions to phenomena, having more confidence in their bodies than in their minds.
They are perfect genetic & memetic filtering agencies, and are used to symbolize nature: the intuitive and counter-intuitive aspects of order/chaos.

This makes females difficult to fool, and more prone to disillusionment.
Depending on how feminine/masculine they are, and what organ dominates - determining her psychology - they are usually in conflict between the ideals, they've been taught (meme) and the body's reaction to the wold in accordance to a past (precedent): the meme/gene conflict.
Their minds may be told to value things, and male traits, that their bodies have evolved to reject.
This conflict is what has been called 'female mystique'.
Female indecisiveness, shallowness and fickle loyalties are due to this mind/body conflict, and her role as DNA sampler and evaluator.
This is converted to memetic judge and jury.
Her mind's judgments, raised to use cultural standards, conflict with her body's judgments, evolved in more austere, threatening environments.
Pragmatism, versus instinct, or as they would put it: the mind versus the heart.

Body language is what she is fluent in, and she knows not how or why.
Words are not decisive to her, depending on her quality of mind, because she knows they are representations that can be meaningless.
This is why she speaks a lot - like an echo orientation. It is more the sound, frequency, and sequence, followed by the response, the reaction, that she is reading.

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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptySat May 05, 2018 11:29 am

Throwing back the head in laughter
Laughter is the sudden release of nervous energy. Energy kept in reserve for the fight/flight mechanism
The display expresses surprise, startle, called in comedy the 'punch line'.
This surprise releases the nervous energies, mimicking orgasm....convulsions, hyperventilation, expulsion of air from the lungs, muscle clenching etc.
The head is thrown back as an act of submission, exposing the throat - readiness for the coming unsuspected threat.

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OnWithTheirHead
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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyTue Jun 05, 2018 6:59 pm

Satyr wrote:
Females are genius in reading body language - deciphering subtle physical cues.
Their reproductive role depends on them figuring out the group's psychological dynamics, the social hierarchy, and placing herself within its midst - figuring out her position in relation to others.
This is why they gossip, as do men.

To make their talent more effective it has to remain intuitive, because rationalizing it would exclude data....a female compensates for her lack of clarity, with the awareness of subtlety that is then incorporated into a vague sensation they cannot rationalize, explain, define....but can feel.
Vagueness allows her to include into her 'mental models' data that would be rejected if it could not be included coherently...as in the case of reasoning.
This is where males fall behind. For them clarity is essential (being hunters), so they need to incorporate data into cohesive models. Males, therefore, reject all data that cannot be incorporated, or that contradicts cohesion.
Females use vagueness to assimilate data that contradicts other data, or that cannot be incorporated into a cohesive model.
She sacrifices quality for quantity. Depth of thought is replaced by breadth of thought.
This is how her mind can include larger amounts of data into her judgments.
This is automatic, because it is her body's genetic memories that are judging, and then sending this judgment to the brain where it is converted to sensation - an inexplicable feeling.
Women are also more emotional....they rely on their automatic reactions to phenomena, having more confidence in their bodies than in their minds.
They are perfect genetic & memetic filtering agencies, and are used to symbolize nature: the intuitive and counter-intuitive aspects of order/chaos.

This makes females difficult to fool, and more prone to disillusionment.
Depending on how feminine/masculine they are, and what organ dominates - determining her psychology - they are usually in conflict between the ideals, they've been taught (meme) and the body's reaction to the wold in accordance to a past (precedent): the meme/gene conflict.
Their minds may be told to value things, and male traits, that their bodies have evolved to reject.
This conflict is what has been called 'female mystique'.
Female indecisiveness, shallowness and fickle loyalties are due to this mind/body conflict, and her role as DNA sampler and evaluator.
This is converted to memetic judge and jury.
Her mind's judgments, raised to use cultural standards, conflict with her body's judgments, evolved in more austere, threatening environments.
Pragmatism, versus instinct, or as they would put it: the mind versus the heart.

Body language is what she is fluent in, and she knows not how or why.
Words are not decisive to her, depending on her quality of mind, because she knows they are representations that can be meaningless.
This is why she speaks a lot - like an echo orientation. It is more the sound, frequency, and sequence, followed by the response, the reaction, that she is reading.

Or it could be that males are just bad at masking their body language. Females are good at faking body language.
Because I think certain males, can easily detect the body language of other males. But that it is hard for both females and males to detect the body language of females.
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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 9:44 am

Satyr wrote:
Throwing back the head in laughter
Laughter is the sudden release of nervous energy. Energy kept in reserve for the fight/flight mechanism
The display expresses surprise, startle, called in comedy the 'punch line'.
This surprise releases the nervous energies, mimicking orgasm....convulsions, hyperventilation, expulsion of air from the lungs, muscle clenching etc.
The head is thrown back as an act of submission, exposing the throat - readiness for the coming unsuspected threat.
 



Doesn't look submissive to me. The exposure of a throat, at least in this scenario, is more like a challenge: "Here, I'm exposing a vulnerable part of myself. Dare to take a strike at it, motherfucker? Huh? Go ahead, and I'll fuck you up"

Kinda like that scene in braveheart, presenting your buttocks would usually be a sign of submission, not so in that context:

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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 9:49 am

The slant indicates a partial expression, hiding something as it reveals.
The eyes, and turning to the side....are all part of the message.

In laughter there a closing of the eyes....as in sexual ecstasy....laughter is an expulsion of repressed nervous tension.
The centre of the throat is exposed, Adam's apple...the most vulnerable part.
Closing the eyes also indicates complete surrender to fate.
Open eyes contradict this.

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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 12:59 pm

That comic characters expression is an arrogant expression multiplied and overdone purposefully, he looks up, looks above you with his head(not acknowleding you on the same level as himself), being explicitly rude and challenging through this gesture that shows lack of respect and expresses a strong sense of superiority yet his eyes are actually looking down into the eyes of whoever he is facing, to mock, challenge, make it even clearer that he is not only looking to disrespect or to show he is superior(or feels himself too superior to engage) but to fight also.
Here is a good example(a guy I knew who was a huge narcissist and me and my friend for comparison):
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Notice the difference, though I think his displays were mostly from the angle of eroticism(the intense eye-contact, overdone with the eyelids closed to a point of almost not seeing anybody(to signify the intent of penetration and choice of where the sight is being cast to the female), the constant looking up and then re-engaging the females eyes to make the intent clearer and and make a bigger of an impact and so on, this particular imbecyle had bought himself little business cards with his number which he would give out on bus, metro etc., very feminine guy.
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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 1:23 pm

Squinting does indicate a focus. A piercing gaze into the soul of the other.

Tilting of the head is about triangulation...a predator tilts its head to measure distance.

A slight tilts of the head back, chin out, gives the impression of length...distance.
The other is displaying his superiority, slightly exposing his neck because he feels confident, unafraid.
Squinting eyes give the impression of relaxation....unconcern.
A display of how little he thinks of your ability oh hurt him.
Nevertheless body is square, at the ready.

This specimen is typical of a wannabe.
He's trying to hard.
His need contradicts his display of confident indifference.
I've met many like him. He's becoming typical in a feminized world...particularly since he is protected...nobody will call him out to prove his value, and if they do they risk persecution...and he'll find an excuse to excuse himself.


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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 1:46 pm

Yeah, with the eyes its a good point, though I still think he used them mostly to flirt with females but now that I looked closer I can definately see that he might have been switching from laser gazing to displaying boredom and indifference though actually paradoxically because he is pretending his expression is forced and its not fully fluent and coherent and its hard to tell sometimes because of that.
moved the irrelevant bit of the post to my own thread my thoughts


Last edited by polishyouth on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 3:21 pm

polishyouth wrote:
That comic characters expression is an arrogant expression multiplied and overdone purposefully, he looks up, looks above you with his head(not acknowleding you on the same level as himself), being explicitly rude and challenging through this gesture that shows lack of respect and expresses a strong sense of superiority yet his eyes are actually looking down into the eyes of whoever he is facing, to mock, challenge, make it even clearer that he is not only looking to disrespect or to show he is superior(or feels himself too superior to engage) but to fight also.

Yep.

Btw the guy in the white t-shirt reminds me of somebody

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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyThu Jun 07, 2018 3:30 pm

Indeed....ha!!
Could it be?

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PostSubject: Re: Body Language Body Language EmptyFri Jul 26, 2019 10:04 am

Schopenhauer, Arthur wrote:
A man's face as a rule says more, and more interesting things, than his mouth, for it is a compendium of everything his mouth will ever say, in that it is the monogram of all this man's thoughts and aspirations.

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