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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 02, 2023 6:58 am

As [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to free-will, a qualification of choice, we can also add the two sources of memory into the puzzle:
DNA being unconscious memories, inherited genetically, often conflicting with experiential memories - both first- and sehond-hand - stored in the brain.

Ego I've designated as the term referring to lucid awareness - or the part of the self that attempts to know itself; the part most people refer to as "I", dismissing the rest as not itself.
This dismissal is what becomes 'god', or how the ego claims not to be responsible for what the other part has chosen, acted out...so denial of free-will is a consequence of this fracturing of the self into conscious/unconscious and choosing to associate identity with the lucid, the ego part.
This is also where the notion of a feminine spirit trapped in a male form, comes from.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 02, 2023 7:07 am

That also demonstrates how society "engenders" different parts of the brain, and the presumption there is that the 'Choosing' or 'Determining' part of the mind, is Masculine, while the Submissive aspect is Feminine.

The emasculated male then identifies as 'female'.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 02, 2023 8:47 am

The irony being that those that deny free-will or personal agency can never learn nor change, because they always blame something and someone else for whatever happens to them.
Because they are never to blame - especially for the negative stuff - they can never identify the source of their predicaments, and repeat the same errors....justifying their fatalistic convictions.


It's the predicament of those who believe race and gender are nothing more than social constructs, trying to explain why, after decades of interventional ideologies, affirmative actions, egalitarianism, spiritual altruisms, humanism - no utopian equity has been achieved.
They refuse to question their own core convictions - emotional grounded - so they can never find a rational explanation other than systemic racism/sexism, or metaphysical evil...but this cannot resolve anything since it is a lie....so they are trapped in their own mythologies, forever accusing some agency for their own failures.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 02, 2023 8:57 am

So, the world is 'corrupted' when it fails to abide by their world-views. It's not their world-views that are corrupted, but the world.
Similarly....there is no morality because the world fails to abide by their understanding of morality; there is no free-will because the world fails to abide by their understanding of free-will.

The world is failing them...not their convictions, and the way they've defined concepts, and/or understood them.
It's never them... it's the world's fault.
World must adhere to their language, expressing their understanding....
They do not adjust their language and their understanding to the world.....

They have no free-will because their will failed them, so there must be a reason other than their understanding, or their will's power, i.e., their weakness.
A will is only as effective as the knowledge and understanding supporting it.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 02, 2023 6:45 pm

The genetic truth that "one could not have been other than who he is" is now converted to "one could not have believed, nor chosen, nor judged" other than in the way he did.
No regrets.
It's resentment towards the parents, towards one's genealogical heritage, converted to a universal absolute truth concerning the mind's quality....

Failure to compromise and cultivate what one was born with, becomes an excuse, concealed in a metaphysical absolute.
It's motive is to protect the ego from the implications....especially the personal ones that strike directly at the heart of the ego's sense of self - when it is hyperinflated and narcissistic.
Hyperinflated egos tend to compensate for a secret insecurity....making their ego particularly vulnerable to pin-pricks producing loud explosions.

The realization of nature's injustices, producing individuals of various potentials, becomes a metaphysical attempt to conceal oneself in a collective - power through association.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyMon Apr 03, 2023 7:36 am

Because most of Humanity is not 'Human', the difference between Master and Slave Dialectic is critical.

The Proletariat don't even pretend to have a Free-Will, despite political sloganeering for when it when politically convenient. What the Prole knows of "freedom" is only through his group, his society, his nationalism, and all of its representatives. His freedom is representational, of higher Authorities, usually up the Abrahamic ladder 'God'. Thus it is foolish to go to the Prole and expect Free-Will.

You would think the Bourgeois would be a better place. Surely, those of the upper-middle and wealthy classes believe in Free-Will, at least? You'd be mistaken. You'd be wrong. Because the Bourgeois have bought into simple-minded deceptions. Surely material comfort is important and a mark of physical success. It's good that people are safe, secure, and base needs taken care of. After all, these degrees of leisure allow for finer art, cuisine, culture, and greater standards of living in all aspects of life.

But here the mistake is comfort as freedom. Being comfortable, does not make you free. It only lures one deeply into the Blissful/Ignorant state. Without Rigorous exercise, without a return to Nature, eventually Nihilism lurks and bites its poisonous fangs into these types. The disconnect from Nature must be temporary, or the Bourgeois begin to mistake their gated communities, their private gardens, with "Nature-itself". It is not. It is a walled section, inside a densely populated Urban environment.

Its protection is well paid for. Thus it has a price-point, a cost, which must be maintained. The Bourgeois is the target of Freud-Bernays, and since these two, the 'Americanist' / Globalist ideology.


The Bourgeois are much more nuanced in their delusions of free-will. Because although they are secure in physical freedoms, can move around quite freely, their thoughts are certainly not so. They are curtailed. The above-average intelligence of the Bourgeois tend to know this more readily. Their political correctness is protected by a slew of lies, sloganeering, commercialism, and consumerism. They are more fervent and ferocious by the protection of political deception. The more aware among these, come to a natural conclusion: Guilt. Or simply, White-Guilt.

They feel guilty for the exploitation their above-intelligence cannot deny nor ignore. They are, at least somewhat, aware that their wealth comes from the exploitation and current exploits, against the turd-world, against minorities, against gang-banging ghetto rats.

This is where Free-Will becomes ...interesting... in my view. The white-liberal, above-average intelligence, slightly aware, his & her "moral values" are put to the test. What will they do? Will they give up their wealth? Will their daughters open their bed sheets to the homeless filth on the street?

No, and in their inaction, their hypocrisies are unveiled. They are NOT free. They are more-than-willing to lie, and deceive themselves, to maintain the status quo. Their Guilt is only superficial, feigning moral righteousness and social justice, to stave-off the more virile, intelligent, and avant garde minorities who fight their way up to their gated communities. But here, the 'token black' friend must be curated. Here the non-WASP minority must be indoctrinated, into Liberal lies and hypocrisies. BLM, Antifa, George Soros' pawns and dominion.

These all protect the Bourgeois, who live in a bubble environment. They don't really know or care for 'Truth' except what is presented to them by their benefactors, those who use and utilize them for greater purposes and deeds.


Do they have Free-Will? Not that I've much seen, at least a handful of them will present tame arguments for the possibility of a Free-Will. But do they believe it?

Not beyond the political correctness that protects their privileged lifestyles.

They dare not step-out of the city walls for long.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyMon Apr 03, 2023 7:52 am

Victims need victimizers.
God was it....the big authoritarian bully.
Now all they have is a ambiguous concept, absolute order, imposing its will and negating theirs.
This is not emotionally satisfying. they need a aggressor, a bully, a victimizer, an  exploiter, with a name and a face.

So, whereas they deny free-will, to preserve their "innocence" - protecting their ego from the implications - they also contradict themselves continuously by accusing the police, objectivists, Nazis, capitalists, the State....otherwise their victim status fails.
Someone has to represent evil if they are to announce themselves as the good and the righteous.

And their amorality is also self-serving - to absolve their conduct of all guilt and shame.
This was the reason why Nietzsche's polemic on Christianity was so seductive to them.
God is dead, meaning morality is nullified - so they hoped.
So whatever they did was now cleansed of all shame and guilt.....but was it?
Was it cleansed of all costs to the collective?
Is adultery made moral any less destructive to a community?
Is paedophilia or necrophilia, or zoophilia, or any sexual deviance any less destructive to a community if it is made moral, or neutral; does it stop being a manifestation of an individua's psychosomatic dysfunction if it is declared to be another lifestyle with no social stigma attached to it?

But morality, as I've argued, is not dependent on god. God, in the Abrahamic sense, was a means of weaponizing shame and guilt, not of inventing it.
Morality, like free-will are words referring to actions, not to theories, concepts, ideas.
The act the term free-will qualifies, is choice - expressing a mind's judgement.
Morality is a term referring to the encoding of evolved behaviours that make cooperative survival and reproductive strategies possible, like tolerance, altruism, sympathy....or the preventative moral rules that inhibit incest, or in-group violence, or child abuse, paedophilia, sexual deviance that can be detrimental to group health.  

Later some additional adjustments were invented by men - Mosaic Commandments - to make more complex systems to emerge, ethical rules against , thieving, adultery, worshiping other gods etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyMon Apr 03, 2023 8:06 am

Satyr wrote:
And their amorality is also self-serving - to absolve their conduct of all guilt and shame.
This was the reason why Nietzsche's polemic on Christianity was so seductive to them.
God is dead, meaning morality is nullified - so they hoped.
So whatever they did was now cleansed of all shame and guilt.....but was it?
Was it cleansed of all costs to the collective?
Is adultery made moral any less destructive to a community?
Is paedophilia or necrophilia, or zoophilia, or any sexual deviance any less destructive to a community if it is made moral, or neutral; does it stop being a manifestation of an individua's psychosomatic dysfunction if it is declared to be another lifestyle with no social stigma attached to it?
I've been considering lately how the justify, in their minds, their allowance and then participation to victimize others, while remaining themselves "the real victims!"

The Bourgeois seem obsessed with this, captivated, which is why the WASP-Judaic alliance is profound and captivating to the masses these recent few decades.  The WASP envies the Jewish tendency to absolve themselves of Guilt, of exploiting and victimizing non-Jews, while they themselves must remain at least somewhat consistent to their self-professed Neo-Liberal values.

Except they cannot juggle it all.  They are faltering.

How do they practice pedophilia upon their victims, while remaining victims themselves??


This just happened this last week, the Trans-female mass shooter.

She kills a bunch of Christian children, BUT, SHE'S THE VICTIM!


The rest of the world's patience is running out ...has run out.

The Lies are wearing thinner everyday.  At least I hope.

There's only so much pressure systems can take before they implode.



I've noticed in the political sphere, they barely even try lying anymore.  It's such a circus freak show, they can't lie big enough to keep the ball rolling anymore.  It's humiliating for them, the Neo-libs, to try to invent new forms of cognitive dissonance to fit into the media anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyMon Apr 03, 2023 8:12 am

The quick answer is nihilism inverts selectively or everything.

Mostly selectively.

Gene/Meme becomes Meme/Gene.
The evil one has a choice, has free-will; the innocent one has no choice, no free-will.
Free-will is sacrificed to the divine absolute by the faithful. They don't need salvation, anymore, because there's nothing to feel responsible for...if you are one of them.
There is no morality, but Nazi is a moral accusation, shaming and trying to silence. Nazis are victimizers - they have freee-will so they can be held accountable..they are not one of them.
Capitalists, as well.
It could be anyone they dislike.

They detach words from the tangible because they want to use them arbitrarily - opportunism.
They want to attach word to emotions, not to the physical, world.
This is why they insist that everything is, or must become, subjective.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyMon Apr 03, 2023 8:17 am

How they attach words to emotions is what they excel at.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyMon Apr 03, 2023 8:34 am

Feminization.....subjectivity.
A concept is detached from a restricting, indifferent, tangible, world and reattached - looped back - to the mind's emotions...ideas and emotions become linked.
Self-referential. Solipsism

Now validity is judged by how a concept makes us feel.

Or it is attached to another's mind, or a collective hive-mind.
Now validity is judged by how popular it is, and popularity is determined by emotions.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 13, 2023 10:11 am

When using words, like free-will, the first thing to do is to find what actions, what phenomena, these words refer to.
Doesn't matter if we can explain or understand them.
Man perceived a moon and a sun, and had no clue what these phenomena were....yet, they existed.

In the case of free-will they refer to an action, not to things, but to acts.

Just as femininity refers to the behaviour or a specialized reproductive type we call female.
A behaviour, exposing a psychology, demeanour, attitude that serves this specialized reproductive role.
Same for masculinity.

Same for 'love'....'same for 'value'......same for 'choice' which si the act which free-will refers to.

If we conceptualize it, we can then theorize it away.....just as we theorized it into exiting only as an abstraction we could manipulate in our minds.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], cannot be manipulated away.
How we choose, what influences our choices and to what degree, can then be explored....
'Free' refers to this evaluation, and 'will' refers to the choice's objective, which need not be obvious, nor a mind aware of it.
We might say that being aware sometimes makes the choice more difficult.
Many of our choices are made without us knowing their objective.....we shape our fate without being conscious of it.
Then we must absolve ourselves form the responsibility when the objective fails to live up to our expectations, or we fail to attain it....mostly because we've projected it outside reality, ro we've underestimated it, or overestimated our own abilities.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 13, 2023 11:27 am

The imaginative idea, often used by determinists - like Harris - is this magical fantasy idea of "rewinding time" back, to some arbitrary point and then releasing it, from the bounds of our fantasy.
According to them we would - given that none of the circumstances preceding this point in space/time had changed - choose exactly the same thing we chose in the real empirical sequence. this si their presumption.
This presupposes an absolutely ordered cosmos.....rejecting chaos as a factor that not only explains how life and consciousness emerged but why choice is necessary...not merely possible but necessary - essential to surviving in this cosmic reality of chaos/order.
Linear time being the experience of this momentum/movement, from near-absolute order - duality of Yin/Yang - towards near-absoltue chaos - expanding possibilities declining probabilities...movement towards infinity or an imagined state where everything is simultaneously possible.

If we use magical thinking and rewind space/time, at that arbitrary point, and then release it from the control of our imaginative mind, the past remains determined, the options the same, and what follows is a pattern unfolding in exactly the same way....since pattern is predictable.
BUT.....chaos is the unknown, unpredictable factor.
When we release our magically rewound space/time reel, the chaotic energies may not interact with the patterned energies of our brain in exactly the same way, necessitating an alternate choice.
The brain is an organ constantly interacting with environment, either through the senses or the body.
There is a contant influx of processed, interpreted, data....cosmic particles interacting with the body without going through the brain, affecting cells, cascading their effect across an organ.....furthermore chaotic 'dark' energies interact with all that exists, it is part of existence itself, therefore not only the subject is affected but the entire environment is affected, in infinitesimal degrees, each one producing bigger consequences.
The mind is now confronted with a new set of data influx....small but not absent, necessitating a different reaction, a different choice, in this magical rewound space/time, even if the choice is a minor adjustment of the one made in the real world.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 13, 2023 12:42 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 16, 2023 7:51 am

Belief in Free-Will

It's very important to mark the difference between four possible groups. Those who do not have free-will, and believe they do not. Those who do not have free-will, and believe they do. Those that have free-will, and believe they do not. Finally, those that have free-will, and believe they do.

There are two 'congruent' groups: those without free-will and without belief, those with free-will and with belief. So only these two groups can be coherent within Reality. This means that an organism has free will, knows it, and utilizes it. Or the organism does not have free will, does not believe it, and acts in accordance with this (under the Ownership / Mastery / Manipulation / Guidance of another).

The Master-Slave Dialect is between the congruent groups, those without free-will and without belief (Slaves), those with free-will and with belief (Masters).

It is the divisive groups that confusion, conflict, and debate arises: those without free-will and believe they are free, those with free-will and believe they are not. These groups are incongruent with Reality. Their beliefs are misaligned. I believe the majority if humanity falls in the group of 'those without free-will, who believe they have free-will'. Specifically, this is the 'Abrahamic'-Nihilist variant of mass human religion. In this ideology and theology, humans are trained/educated/indoctrinated into the Ideal that "God" controls or Determines Free-Will, thus Free-Will is controlled religiously and through religious proxies. These minds are not free, do not have free-will, but believe they do "under God".

This is the basis of Western Classical Liberalism, the Protestant-Puritan Anglo US Government, and general Protestant-Christian moral doctrine.

Thus 'Westerners' believe they are free, when they are not. This is the most common, modern stance.


Perhaps the rarest group are those who have free-will, but do not believe in it. I associate this group with those who have 'potential' to become free. Their minds have the IQ for it, the self-consciousness and self-awareness, but these types lack Confidence in themselves. Or, through constantly applied Demoralization (Commercialization-Americanization-Bernays-Marxism), the 'potential' types are suppressed into a variety of mental illnesses. Mental illness in the sense that the individual, or even social group, are actually 'systemically' oppressed "by the system". For example, consider the blatant acts of Demoralization through Transexuality, or Humiliation rituals presented on tv/cable/internet displays. White men and Europeans are portrayed as evil, stupid, deplorable, and unworthy of pride or respect.

Neuroticism, Sociopathy, Psychopathy, Apathy, are all signs of mental illness which strip Western "individuals" from their group / social / familial / tribal / genetic lineages, so as to be broken down Psychicly and through Psychic domination. Thus those who may otherwise "would of" had Free-Will, are reduced to empty husks, destroyed internally, by Parasitism / Mind Control.


"Determinists" seem to fall into the group of no Free-Will and no belief in Free-Will. These are utterly enslaved types. They do not entertain the notion of Autonomy. Thus they are slaves. The most intelligent of these types, know they are slaves, and become proud of their slavery to individual masters (as black Americans are to their Democrat KKK Massah), or proud of their slavery to the former's masters Institutions (Roman Catholicism, obliged to dead Roman Emperors millenniums ago). Thus there is a large chunk of human world population who remain in 'Service' to "traditional" institutions.

This means that their ancestors were slaves back in....2000BC, 1000BC, 0AD, 1000AD, and to this day, the majority of their genetic dynasty is that of Slavery.

It's in the Genes.


I'll save the last group, those who have Free-Will, and believe they have it, for next time...
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 16, 2023 8:26 am

Everyone has free-will in as much as they can choose - not choosing being another choice.

But not all have the same degree of freedom of will, nor the same strength of will.
'Freedom' indicating options to choose from; 'will' indicating how much resistance one can overcome (inherited and cultivated organic energies) - determined by one's self-control and focus of whatever energies are available to him - adjusting the number of available and accessible options.
Freedom means how much one can not be affected by determined and contingent factors - or how much one can choose the path-of-more-resistance.

Causality determines necessity, and the degree to which one is compelled to make a particular choice. Causality does not determine the choice...only the probability of it within a fluctuating environment.
But the mind unhindered by space/time limitations can evaluate probabilities and choose an option that does not offer immediate gratification, but an estimated greater gratification in the long term. Mind can project beyond the immediate, and choose according to what are not immediate circumstances.

Body simply reacts, programmed to do so in specific ways - automatic.
Mind learns through experience and can override this genetic automation, adjusting it to the circumstances and their projections.
This evolved advantage deals with the unforeseeable factor of chaos - otherwise automatic reactions would not require any overriding - precedent would be all an organism would require to survive.
Chaos gives an advantage to an organism that can somewhat adjust its genetic impulses, adjusting them to the inconspicuous effects of chaotic energies upon conspicuous energies - subtly adjusting probabilities for survival benefiting minds that can accurately evaluate - approximate - circumstances, on the fly, and that can successfully control their available aggregate organic energies.

If all were predictable then natural selection would be unnecessary. There would be no point to competing, fighting...winning.
What is being selected is an individual organism's ability to perceive and adjust itself to the unforeseeable, or an organism that can learn, adjusting its reactions accordingly, giving itself a slight but determining advantage.

*******

It all begins with a linguistic detachment of the synthetic concept of free-will from the act of judging/evaluating and choosing.
The concept is, usually, defined "out of existence" , viz., projected into some theoretical, imagined, state, "place, position", outside space/time, i.e., existence.
Abstracted - reduced to mere idea/ideal with no external referents. Existing in the mind as an obscure, vague, mystical, occult, idea/ideal - "free" from wordily limitations to be imagined in whatever way individuals desire and shared through linguistic intercourse.

Like Old & New Testament concepts.free-will can now be debated forever, or redefined, or negated, or used to manipulate and exploit needy minds - detached from reality gives the words more options - ironically.
The manipulator is given linguistic options to deny the manipulated of his.

*******

Choice is the issue....free-will refers to the at of judging - evaluating - and choosing - acting guided by this judgement/evaluation, and self-control - directing oneself intentionally, willing.

*******

As it pertains to life - intentional interactivity - choice is a participating cause in subsequent effects.

*******

Choice - will - is what differentiates living unities, i.e., organisms, from non-living unities, e.g., a stone, a cloud, a planet, a meteor, a river, a particle, a wave.
Path-of-least-resistance, determines non living interactions; will chooses more resistance because it, unlike non-living energies - has intent, motive, an objective.

*******

A slave is an individual whose options and choices are being controlled by an external agency - an external will, imposing itself upon the slave's will - master/slave dynamics.
The best or most reliable slave is the one that has been convinced - by an external agency - that it has no freedom of will; that it's will is not its own, or that it has zero options, zero, agency....no freedom to choose at all, viz., fated to be where it is, as it is.
Such a mind will never even think about gaining or exercising its freedom - even if minuscule, i.e., lacking many options. It is its own enslaver.
A mental concept, a linguistic trick, has enslaved it - most of the time it submits willfully..
A master that has programmed such a slave mind need not use coercion to impose itself upon its slave, nor waste much energy in keeping such a slave imprisoned, controlled.
But such a master that chooses to manipulate or control other wills requires some linguistic talent and guile.
First it convinces the other mind that it has no choice - nil freedom of will - and then it may choose to convince it's potential slave that it, the master, is the one that knows and understands what has been determined, or why it has been determined - such a master will present itself to its potential slave as a special kind of slave...no different than him but more aware, having been the benefactor of determinations , i.e., chosen to be aware; what has not been determined for the slaves it now pretends to be protecting and guiding.
Now this 'master' pretends to be another slave, but a slave with special privileges. What has been determined is that it will be the representative of determination.
In this way, this master can impose its will and also claim innocence; it could exploit and manipulate those it convinces that they have no choice - no free-will - while also claiming that it has no part in what has been determined, it is not responsible for its privileged position.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 16, 2023 9:44 am

Convince a man that he is not free, and that they very idea of freedom is a nonsensical concept, and he will be a happy slave for an entire lifetime.
Once you've convinced him the act of choice, and judgement, he has personally experienced, is an illusion, happily absolving him of all responsibility, then you can more easily convince him that you have access to knowledge that reveals what has been determined for him and for all mankind, and, more significantly, of what will be determined. Then, you might absolve yourself of future consequences, by claiming that your foresight has, itself, been determined, and is not your will – not your judgement and choice – which will be happily accepted by the slave to maintain his own innocence, and ignorance in a far worse realization that of his own willful participation in his own enslavement, all for the sake of preserving innocence.
In this way a master can make himself immune to his own slave's future reactions to what he intentionally has determined for him.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyWed Apr 19, 2023 5:01 am

Consider one who has free-will, and believes it.

This is the beginning of a type of moral self-awareness, self-responsibility—Autonomy. It signifies self-consciousness. Man becomes aware of his own existential status, and therefore, the totality of intended (and unintended) affects upon all others and his environment. He is an extension and sum of his environment/tribe/nature. But he is also a Director of it. He 'chooses'. This act of Choice is really what his "Essence" is. It is the fluid motion of his will in Action, that represents his Choices.

Abrahamism intervenes in this. It proposes through its system that any man's individual autonomy is its 'Creation' and God's Creator. This leads most in Western Civilization to a pre-supposition, a status that is ready to snatch the free-will of an individual who rises up within it. Is Man responsible for his own will and autonomy? No, God is, because the Abrahamics specifically intend to intervene in everybody's ascent to Free-Will. You cannot be Free—because our 'God' is the arbiter and final authority of who, or what, is Free or Not. Through this rationale, the autonomy of common men are usurped by foreign doctrine. It is a clever ruse.

But it is a necessity to deal with by how Authority works in human systems / tribes / groups. Because there are few or no places on Earth left to escape, untouched by the spread of these mass religions, eventually men will cross invisible barriers of priestly Authority, representatives of Mysticism...


...whose systems cannot allow 'Free' men or women to announce or admit themselves among the flocks. Because it would too greatly disturb and negatively affect the enslaved wills of the masses.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 20, 2023 5:51 am

Really the only way one could hypothetically have a "moral status" would be to have free-will, and believe in it. This demonstrates a type of self-'Confidence' which is unique. It demonstrates a Leader status apart from followers. One, above many. Master, above slave. This is why the masses attach their "free-will" to a leader, to one with confidence, even or especially when such confidence is often deceptive. Most of the masses believe "fake it till you make it", and presume that Confidence comes from a history of successful grifting. The masses believe that you have to lie, to get ahead, or rise above.

They are partially correct, but not really.

Because honest Confidence would come from genuine belief, on top of a history of successes. Therefore, those with a history of successful Choices would draw upon their experience and knowledge of the 'correctness' of such Libertine Choice / Free-Will. Similarly, even those who make mistake, after mistake, after mistake, and have the wherewithal to stay straight and confident, demonstrate a qualitative difference of Morality, apart from the masses.

To simplify, those who have free-will, and believe in it, have a unique type of 'Agency' or 'Autonomy' that the other categories simply do no have, nor necessarily want. Because to "want it" would be to self-handicap. You'd be stuck, particularly, in deep-thought. You'd be a type of 'Autist'.

You'd need to understand....

Your place in the world.
What you are (self-awareness, know thyself).
Your purpose.
How much you control your purpose/fate/destiny/path.
Relevance between you and others.
Relevance between you and Nature.

So this is not something the masses are either 1) willing to do, or 2) capable of.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 20, 2023 6:12 am

Consider somebody who has no free-will, and wouldn't believe it if they had it.

They are a completely passive 'agent'. Existence is happening to them, through them. They have no control of their will, nor their choices. Their "choosing" is an illusion. Their inner-voice or meager self-consciousness is God speaking "through" them. They are vessels of God. Empty shells. Husks. Whatever spirit or soul or purpose they may have, if any at all, is put or 'placed' their, from what they claim or admit to be, an external Agency.

Most of them do not proclaim to have any inner-knowledge on this External Agency.

These are the Priest's Flock, the Sheeple, the Manimal, those without 'Soul' or 'Spirit'. The Priest's Sermon installs in them, a software program, memetics. Instructions. The Priest, representative of the Pope and therefore God's Agency, gives them Purpose / Meaning / Intent.

He writes it in them. Doctrine. Holy Book. Blank Slate Theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 4:36 am

What would a Free-Will look like?

Well, look around you. The majority of people, and the majority of their beliefs, are based on a 2000+ year old Abrahamic institution. Does anybody believe this is easily overcome? That you could easily or 'freely' come and go, as you please? No, Abrahamics won't allow you. The first thing they'll do—is deny you. The idea that "one of us" could be free or become free, is a dangerous supposition. It triggers Resentiment. It triggers the instinctual compulsion of the masses, to pull their follow crabs back down into the boiling pot. The desperate masses, will drown each-other to rise above the surface.

So your Resistance, toward freedom, begins at odds with those affected—infected with a parasitic virus. Your own race, ethnicity, tribe, family, brother, sister. Abrahamism pre-empted this attack and resistance "to bring a sword" and "to divide father from son". What does Abraham represent, except division between Father and Son? And who intervenes, except God? Who created the division? Why?

Sometime ago, I mentioned how Slaves in the past were regularly castrated and disallowed to reproduce by their Masters. But, the 'good' slaves (ie. Obedient) would be "allowed" to reproduce. The problem it created, was loyalty between Father and Son, which took precedence over Slave and Master. Abrahamism therein represents intervention of the Master, to demand sacrifice of the slave's Son, so that he is "buck-broken" spiritually. A complete demoralization.

A complete Emasculation.

Their "Holy Book" is a representation of this, absolute demoralization. It then pawns itself off as 'Morality'.

Its entire premise is built upon Slavery, NOT FREEDOM.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 4:36 am

This is why the Abrahamics 1) do not believe in free-will 2) because they have no free-will 3) because they were buck-broken and spiritually destroyed over 2000 years ago.

It's in their DNA.

They are bred for (genetically engineered) to be "good boys", good slaves, good goyim, chattle, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 4:40 am

"The Matrix" movie series, stories, and franchise was/is one of the best Metaphors for tapping into this Abrahamic—Zionist compulsion. The masses are bred for sacrifice, in a Holy War, that they "wake up" to (Neo). Morpheus acts as intermediary between two worlds (blue pill vs red pill). The blue-pill represents Technocracy, serving Machines, serving a Mechanistic Overlord (evil whitey) that rules through complete domination and totalitarianism. The "freedom-fighting" resistance, are Zionists. They are "free" to resist.

Are they free though???

Can Neo decline to fight 'after' taking the red-pill? Can Cipher be plugged back in, after regretting his decision?
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 11:42 am

Æon wrote:

Are they free though???

No, they are not.

And this is precisely the mind fuck the movie plays. Unplugged, "Freed" from the system, but still connected to it, still dependent on it, and its parameters, to guide them in every way and give thier lives purpose. The maternal ubilical cord was severed,  but they remain stunted, infantile and attached to the safety and comfort of its womb. Cipher is the only one who admits this to himself, who has the ability to consciously affirm his inferiority and cowardice, his desire to return back to the unconsciousness of the womb; symbolically, a manchild. Smith, a non human program, is the only one who understands power and freedom, but nihilistically, by way of self-destuction. Thus, through him, the movie suggests how negative something like freedom is, and that it must be placed into the hands of divine providence, into the will of god. "Fate" "karma" "causality" are the movies' running themes that are brought up again and again as subliminal programming to support this premise.  

Satyr made a good point recently about the idiocy of how moderns and Americans define freedom. Living thier lives by their blind hedonistic impulses and the identities that thier institutions, brainwashing and pop-culture has ingrained into them. This is leftist psychology. Retarded minds, believing they are all powerful and free and unique, by giving themselves over to all the artificial cultural and institutional morality and codes. Obeying and complying with how they are told to be free and powerful, whether it is gentially mutilating themselves or traveling to a hotel and snapping selfies in front of an ocean vista. For example, that idiotic douchbag Mr reasonable, posting sad videos of himself driving in his car. He cannot experience life alone because he is an empty nobody. He needs a collective to appreciate him, to validate his "uniqueness". He needs to be seen, in order to believe he has worth and value, to believe he is "free".

Neo symbolizes the modern masses. He surrenders himself to his romantic feelings, his instincts and the sensation of his impulses, so much so, that he believes this gives him power. His blind resolve in his animal desires, makes him believe he is powerful and free when he is a naive clueless pawn, being pushed around, following his determined "fate". He fulfills god's will, by obeying, complying, mindlessly following what he's told. Not by creating his destiny but by submitting to it. It was never his own to create. Only to follow. The divine path of god.


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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 12:49 pm

Freedom is about perceived, available, and accessible options.
Not all options are perceived. Some are imagined...existing in the head.
This is the "beyond space/time" they often allude to; this is what I mean by 'defining words, representing concepts, out of existence'.
Mind is trapped in its own delusions. Its objectives are unattainable because they do not exist in the world.
Disappointment, or the realization that its options refer to objectives that do not really exist in the world, but in their own minds, and the minds of those that share a common delusion, sometimes leads to the negation of all objectives, and all options.....

Projection is the only way the midwit can relate to other....can understand other, i.e., itself in different circumstances. When this fails to produce the expected results its sympathetic projections become antipathetic; pull become push....sometimes the self is negated altogether.
The incomprehensible other leads to an incomprehensible self.

Mind declares the self unknowable, because it does not exist....know thyself no longer compels and challenges them.
They are nil....as is the other.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 1:07 pm

Any definition of 'freedom' or of 'will' starting from the abstract, or defining it in terms that would make both nonsensical concepts that can only exist in the mind, is compelled and conceals a motive....an objective.
It is one of the available options to "free" the individual form responsibility.

One can do this with any word/symbol representing any concept.
They are now attempting to do so with gender, and with the concepts of female/male. they've already done wo with the term 'god' and 'morality'.....one degenerate, of the typical kind, on ILP tried to do so with the term 'value'.

Any concept can be abstracted and defined out of existence - converted to a concept that does not, nor can ever, exist...but only as a vague, incomprehensible, nonsensical idea....that is supported using esoteric methods, like occultism, mysticism....obscurantism.; it is, typically, sold using some promise of power, love, salvation, belonging, popularity, high-esteem, wealth....etc. - like any product is sold by talented grifters, snake-oil salesmen, peddlers of hope.....an d superstitions.
Remaining obscure means nobody can critique it, since the speaker can claim the critic does not comprehend the concept; selling it uses the same method used to sell abstract fArt.....using human vanity and feebleness, and the human need to belong to be appreciated, to be included.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyFri Apr 21, 2023 6:33 pm

If free-will refers to the act of choice then value judgment is an evaluation of a judgement's accuracy relative to expectations, measured by the consequences of its application.
Free-will, like a value judgement that remains abstract, theoretical, can be made to mean anything....but when it is applied, is converted to an action, then its meaning is obvious, and cannot be manipulated; fixed by the act and its consequences.

'Free,' and 'will' refer to the quality of the act of choice....just as value judgement refers to the quality of an evaluation, estimation, expectation.....of an objective.

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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptySun Apr 23, 2023 4:08 am

Determinists (Abrahamists) are stuck in a "freedom from", negative view of free-will:

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This implies that, from the premise, from the start, the idea of a self-accountable, Autonomous 'Self' is one they prefer to negate, and not to affirm. Consider the implications of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 27, 2023 5:18 am

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Quote :
It's very interesting, how in the mind of Determinists, human Agency is not the locus of control or choice except when beneficial to its own Ego, otherwise Determinism is located (externally) by "conditions". It's the "environment's" fault. Climate change. Ban guns, ignore the shooter.

It's a severe cognitive Bias. Only what is purely and wholly 'Good' (whatever that is!?) can be selected and chosen, but never what is bad/wrong/evil.

Free-Will when Convenient...only when it benefits me.
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PostSubject: Re: Free-Will Free-Will - Page 25 EmptyThu Apr 27, 2023 5:22 am

This is why & how the brain compartmentalizes its own functions into different 'identities':

Id, Ego, Super-Ego

It produces a schizophrenic effect in some humans. It is responsible for the "inner-voice" phenomena, by which a small portion of the human population is capable of maintaining a Monologue, while the vast majority cannot, and thus depend upon 'Authorities' (usually Priests) to do their 'thinking' for them, on their behalf. In this way, thought-processes are outsourced in the human/mammalian population into "Experts". Abrahamic religions caught onto this societal compulsion and focused their mind-control / enslavement efforts there, at the focal point. This allowed a small leverage force to cause massive societal changes.

The average, the masses, humanity, does not have a "Free-Will". They admit this readily. It's not completely absent, but an "only when it benefits me" hidden rationale.

"Confirmation Bias" is just scratching the surface of this (ego, super-ego). It is very deep and fundamental, inside the brain.



It's how a person identifies his/her "Self".
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