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Satyr
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PostSubject: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 7:14 am

To borrow Heidegger's terminology the human condition is about Being and Time, or how the organism expériences time, being a manifestation of time itself.
What is time?
The relationship of organic processes, i.e., interactions (change), in relation to comic processes (encoded as natural Laws), i.e., interactions (change).
The human mind, enclosed within a cranium, experiences time differently from the body.
The mind can go back in time - via its memories - or project itself into the future - via its abstractions, or exit the continuum of real time, via its synthesis of memories and their projection into an alternate future reality.

The body, on the other hand, is a manifestation of past, i.e., past made present and consciously interpreted (experienced) as appearance; it has a fluctuating but stable metabolic rhythm which determines its temporal signature, its identification as a unity, relative to cosmic fluctuations.
This relationship causes attrition - ageing, i.e., physical changes that gradually deteriorate the organism's ability to resist cosmic change.
This discrepancy between mind/body is what is experienced as dissonance, an individual awakening to itself preferring to identify with the mind in antithesis to the body. Mind, becoming lucid, gradually differentiates itself from itself - ego from self - which produces resentment towards the unconscious physical and mental processes.
Mind is eventually defined as divine - creator being - due to its temporal and physical independence.
This eventually becomes formalized into a ideological school of thought called nihilism - the lucid part of the mind (ego) negating or rejecting, or refusing to identify with the unconscious parts of itself and the body's automated processes.
This is why Harris refuses free-will, according to his own reasoning. It is because free-will produced regret. Harris refuses to take responsibility for the his own automated and unconscious judgements and choices, only identifying with the ego's intentionality.
So, the consequences of his choices - based on his judgements, conscious and unconscious (impulsive, subconscious, genetic) is what he refuses to take responsibility for, since they are mostly unforeseeable, unintentional collateral causes of his intentions.
He rejects free-will unless it is lucid and consciously intentional, rejecting all automated judgement/choices and all unintentional side-effects of his intentional actions/choices. This he considers his enslavement, his lack of free-will, refusing to be held accountable for what he is not aware of, or for what he can never predict.
The issue is temporal.
Mind becomes aware of the judgments and choices it has made - already made - after the fact, as if another agency was involved. Since he only identifies with the self that is aware of itself, he refuses to be held accountable for what his lucid international consciousness did not give consent to.
Which brings us to ecmandu's consent "problem".

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 7:25 am

There are two issues, in regards to ecmandu's detachment from reality and his claim to be a time-traveler.
The "problem" - using his terminology - is time.
Sex is a biological answer to mortality and mortality is about time restrictions.
When males are rejected by females it is their temporality which is cut short - they are not permitted to be invested in the future; their past is rejected as temporally insufficient; the temporal continuum, held together by memories (DNA and experiential) we call self, is not permitted, in the dynamic present, to continue into the future
Here consent enters the picture as the immutable past - a past that can no longer be changed, ergo regret is a by product of this temporal restriction.
An individual is the manifestation of a past it, personally, had no part in. It inherits the judgment and choices of its ancestors - judgements and choices he/she did not give consent.
The paradox of being the manifestation of past made present, rejecting a past it had no participation in.
This gene/meme dissonance expresses nature/nurture conflicts, especially when memes manifest as cultures - ideals, morals, convictions, standards - that change from generation to generation.
Memes change faster than genes can adapt - here, once more, we find the mind/body conflict externalized as memetics contradicting genetics; ideals contradicting the real, the dynamic present coming in conflict with the immutable past.

Ecmandu's solution is a schism - schizophrenia - self-induced madness. He regains a future denied to him by natural selection and the filtering sexual agency of females.
He exists in multiple times, past/present/future, through mental projections and fantasy recombinations of genetic and experiential memories.
His sensitive spirit makes him naturally empathic, gaining the ability to experience multiple lives.
In his broken consciousness - compartmentalized -  this takes the form of a narrative where his ego - lucid self - experiences these second-hand empathic experiences as a third-party.
This gives him a solution to his "problem" concerning sex and consent. The ego becomes an independent agency, no longer identifying with a past it did not participate in - consent violation - or a future denied to him via female agency, rejecting him and denying him a future.
He circumvents this denial and projects himself into the future.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 7:58 am

In the other psychotic - iambiguous - this past/present/future predicament takes the form of indecisiveness and entrapment.
Mind/Body conflicts are projected as conflicting value judgments: body judging and choosing in ways the mind connot approve of; the mind judging and choosing in ways that contradict the body's impulses.
Gene/Meme dissonance.
Here the solution is found in nihilism - rejection of all. Inability to choose or to judge.
Harris's rejection of free-will, due to regret, becomes in this psychotic a refusal of all, calling it "skepticism".
resentment becomes a need to drag the world down to his predicament.

What is regret?
The mind's realization that it cannot undo the past. A realization that becomes pronounced as man ages - having less future and more past.  
This loss of future shrinks the psyche, within a perpetual state of presence.
The immutable - determined - past is rejected because ti failed to produce a desired future.
Errors in judgments are errors in standards, i.e., ideals, world-views.
Having failed to recognize the source of its failures it negates it all as irrelevant or as inevitable.
Regret becomes an refusal to judge and to choose - to pass judgement and to act upon it. The mind has lost confidence in itself and projects this as a cosmic truth.
All opinions - perspectives - are potentially wrong, therefore its own failure toi accurately judge and choose is diluted by making it a cosmic fact - certainty in universal uncertainty.
There is no regret when all was predetermined and could not have been any other way.
Past is negated (body) and future is denied (mind)...so all that is left is the ongoing fluctuating present (nervous system, lucid self, i.e., ego), which is indeterminable because it is fluctuating - dynamic changing, i.e., uncertain.
Zoot and iambiguous find a temporal connection.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 8:24 am

Here we can introduce the charlatan's VO bullshit, attempting to take advantage of this temporal "problem" for living organisms.
Value being a product of subject moving (momentum, intent, will) towards an object/objective. A triangulation evaluated by the subject as the objective's value.
The charlatan's solution is Abrahamic....just as love was converted to an ontology, value is converted into an ontology, detaching it from its temporality.
Love = relationship of temporalities within a fluctuating cosmos, i.e., existence - attraction, harmony.
When love became an ον, a god, a being, it was placed outside space/time. In Abrahamics superstitions love becomes a end, a final complete, whole unity, offering a resolution of proving oneself worthy.
If one submits to its definitions - its reasoning,. i.e., logos - one regains a future without mediators, such as female agency.
In VO the standard for evaluating oneself and other is placed in the ego. Nothing external can depreciate or impose its own standards upon it. Ego is declared to be god creator - value giver, value creator. There is no triangulation, only declaration. This is how Will to Power is understood. Will imposing its power over world, and since mind is relatively independent from world it can declare anything it so wills, and then strive to coerce, seduce, bribe others to affirm its declarations, as a collective project all can benefit from - messianism takes on a new collective form (self-fulfilling prophesies); reality changed through collective convictions.
Because an individual will is powerless a collective of wills, guided by a common ideal, in the form of a mystical prophesy, can multiply this impotence into potency.
The prophesy, placed in the past, becomes a collective projection into the future, which is realized with conscious and unconscious choices, founded no a shared standard.
Once the standard is established in the subconscious through the usual methods, e.g., repetition, reaffirmation, training, indoctrination, mystical prophesy, suggestion etc. it begins to affect the judgment and all subsequent choices.
Prophesy becomes a universal, divine, affirmation of a end, a telos, an inevitability.
Conviction simply multiplies probability. Self-deciet is essential.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 9:42 am


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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 10:05 am

How to adjust value to motivate organism's?
By adjusting their evaluation of either part of the triangulation:
Subject---Effort/Time---Objective/Idea
The method of manipulation.

In primal minds pleasure is the objective.
They cannot conceptualize about existing or surviving...all they know is need/desire, as their experience of the subjective, and pleasure, as the satisfaction/gratification of need/desire, and all they must do is calculate (estimate, approximate) the distance, i.e. effort, space/time, to attain it.
The effort, space/time, is what mediates between its desire/need and its objective/pleasure, i.e., gratification/satisfaction.
Space/Time is what must ber overcome, traversed, with effort, i.e., agon.
Space = possibilities: matter/energy = probabilities, patterned energies, i.e., order; darkness/void = complexity and non-patterned energies, i.e., chaos.
Time = change, i.e., fluctuation of possibilities/probabilities in relation to the subject's fluctuating metabolic rhythms, i.e., probabilities, potentials.
The analysis must be continuous because all is dynamic, changing, fluctuating, yet what is ordered, patterned, offers certainty, whereas what is complex - complicated patterns - or random - lacking patterns - is uncertain.
Man calls both complexity and randomness "chaotic", because ti is the incomprehensible, what ti cannot evaluate and not estimate...so the mind interprets it as a void, a darkness...an abyss.  
In this abyss is where charlatans build their nihilistic castles.....pretending they've discovered a pattern in the complexity, dismissing randomness as non-existent, so most charlatans are positive nihilists and recovering Abrahamics that pretend that they've transcended the concept of a one-god - absolute order - because they've renamed the exact same abstraction.
They then sell themselves as the "chosen" by fate - by deterministic order - to see the pattern in the complex, i.e., to see the mind of god. They sell themselves as the all-seeing to the one-eyed or the blind.  
Pure nihilists - authentic and honest - are those who return to the blindness as universal; all is meaningless, all are equally ignorant, i.e., blind, having lost respect for their own eyesight; having lost confidence in their own awareness.
How to escape shame?
You make weakness universal - ubiquitous.

This is the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
The positive must be proven, argued, supported, affirmed...the negative simply is.
Easier to destroy than to create.
Easier to reject than to attract.
Easier to dismiss than to convince.
Nil is the one-god of the failures, the rejected, the disappointed, dejected, desperate and degenerate. Easy prey for charlatans and positive nihilists who feed into their worship of nil.

The "problem" is time.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 10:26 am

An erroneous evaluation of the triad will led to failure.
It is also possible, as in the case of nihilism, to define the objective out of existence, viz., to price it, evaluate it, to a degree that makes the effort/time unpayable.
This is how shame/guilt can be weaponized. Used to exploit and to manipulable.

As compensation the definition/evaluation of the objective beyond space/time - making it unattainable - also has a psychological comforting return, i.e., sour graping.
Making the objective universal ensures that all will fail equally - parity via the nil - and all will fail certainly - uncertainty is transcended via the nil, i.e., the absolute binary 1/0. The positive (1) is but a cover, a concealment of the nil (0). Both, if taken literally, negate experienced existence if they are externalized or returned from mind to the physical world - which is impossible.
Nihilistic ideology must remain abstract because it can only exist as a concept in the brain.
Like the concept of a round/square, or a satyr, or a unicorn...it can only exist as an abstraction, externalized as symbol/word, and cannot exist independently from the mind.
It is not a product of natural selection but of memetic selection and synthesis; a product of minds, requiring minds to exist.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 4:24 pm


Time....the human condition.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyWed Jul 14, 2021 7:53 pm

Nihilism overshadows hearts of men, because of a misevaluation and misunderstanding of truth.
Recovering Abrahamics assumed truth to be absolute and divine, benevolent and fair, but also final and complete.
It proves to be none of the above.
Few can endure an existence with no absolute final, complete solutions that, also, miraculously produce justice, fairness and an end of conflict; an end to need/suffering.
The term "truth" followed a Roman misinterpretation of the Greek aletheia, and after centuries of Abrahamics corruptions it has come to be associated with finality, completeness, certainty, benevolence, fairness... absoluteness.
Truth is god now that god - as Abrahamism defines it - has been exposed as a lie.

All to cope with temporality.
Aletheia is revealed in the world. It is the world revealed.
Few men can endure what is revealed, preferring to immerse themselves in lies; to conceal aletheia, so as to return to Lethe, before they even cross the river Styx.
Living dead....zombies. Time, for them, is unbearable.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyThu Jul 15, 2021 7:48 pm

Interesting...ecmandu, like many ILP members are crypto-Marxists, or recovering Abrahamics, as I refer to them.
Most would deny it.
Nietzsche predicted that nihilism would man after the loss of god - by which he meant the Abrahamic conception of the one-god - even if it took polytheistic forms as residue of its Indo-European spiritual heritage.
I don't mean to beat up on ecmandu but he seems the most innocent in his desperation, taking on the role of a messianic saviour figure who is saving men from the injustices and brutalities of natural selection, and from the ravages of a world with no discernable certain truth and no free-will - no consent, i.e., a world void of absolutes.
A post-Abrahamic world, or a post-Platonic western world.
A world where time has lost its reference in a finite cosmos with a beginning and an end.

In such a world words once considered self-evident, like god, freedom, meaning, man, woman, value, truth, has lost their meaning.
In this destruction of a memetic world-view all that had participated in it are left out cold, wandering lost in a desert of the real.
Devastating for the mediocre masses that need simple, complete, whole, certain, absolutes - a void once filled by the one-god of Abraham.
A pre-Abrahamic world is too distant, too alien, for them to relate to, after over 2000 years of indoctrination into a spirituality that indirectly worshipped nothingness as an absolute thingness, a somethingness.
The one-god was a concealment of his non-existence, indirectly represented as existing beyond space/time, or outside existence, viz., they worshipped non-existence and did not know it, having conceptualized it as a Platonic more real reality, reducing the experienced existence to an illusion - nihilistic inversion, i.e. positive nihilism.
In essence the abstraction existing only in mind usurped the fluctuating, threatening, uncertainty of a real world; a world of no absolutes (immutable, invisible, singularities).
Ecmandu perceives this as the problem - again problematic - of infinite regress - which is easily resolved when we realize that our mental abstractions are static representations of a fluid, fluctuating, dynamic cosmos...and regress is how the mind conceptualizes fluid space/time.
"Platonic forms" are abstractions - noumena - existing only in minds, i.e., idealized representations of external phenomena.
The platonic cave is the mind enveloped and contained within memetic contrivances.....seeking a way to reconnect, return, to the surface, the real world.
This idea/ideal eventually became the Christian conception of a their ideal - absolute - one/god, settling within the mind's cave where things were concealed by shadows, and the mind is unable to distinguish and differentiate.
The fire within the cave is a metaphorical representation of memes...that illuminate the mind internally, esoterically - manmade light - which pales in comparison to the sunlight that hurts the eyes and exposes what those shadows were. Apollonian sunlight.
In this allegory the cave and the fire within is nihilism. A world of shadows there the mind can invent whatever reality it desires - as though it were awake but asleep, unable to turn around - inversion - and see the way out of the cave - the subterranean, occult, cave.

A reality where even time has lost meaning, having been disconnected from natural cycles.
A world of artificial sunlight, manmade day and night.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyThu Jul 15, 2021 8:00 pm

Only in the mind can time stop, or be turned back, ro fast forwarded.
Mind is Abraham's god, and there the absolute exists, as do many other abstractions.
In the mind all be divided and synthesized, including the mind itself.
God speaks to men through the mind, as if it were another. Their own judgments and choices seem to be those of a stranger.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyThu Jul 15, 2021 8:06 pm

The way out of our present predicament, our loss of meaning, can only go through a temporal return and projection forward - transcending the 2000 years of Abrahamism, as a a bad dream, an interlude.
Once grounded in a lost in time past we can begin, anew, to adapt our foundations to up and coming challenges.
Back to our pre-Scoratics and pre-Domocratic foundations, i.e., Timocracy.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyThu Jul 15, 2021 9:18 pm

Two factors that maintain identity in time:
1- Patterns
2- Memory

Repeating patterns with a consistent, predictable, rhythm, sequence, velocity, etc. can be stored in memory as a kind, a type, which can then be recognized by juxtaposing the pattern (external) with the memory (esoteric).
Memory is an interpretation, a simplification/generalization - abstraction - of the pattern.
Memories are constantly being formed, and we call this "experience".
Memories must be constantly reaffirmed, updated, upgraded.

Memories can be combined and synthesized to become memes.
Genes are a form of memory not requiring a brain nor a nervous system.
Meme/Gene harmony is called "truth".
When memes/genes are in conflict - mind/body dissonance - this is called an error.
The mind places the blame on the body, or on the tangible, physical experienced world, if it does not wish to adjust its error, or when it is protected from the severity of tis errors, i.e., the possible negative consequences, such as abortion, incarceration, or death.

Memes that contradict genetic memories are called nihilistic. A defensive measure by the mind to protect itself from the consequences of its emerging self-awarness - awareness of its identity, continuum.
But nihilism goes further by contradicting experiential memories. The mind becomes self-referential, or its external references are other minds, ro texts in books expressing the thoughts of other minds.
Such memes can only survive if sheltered or if they contradict their own convictions - self-decieve.
This can take the form of compartmentalization: simultaneously holding two contrary convictions; using two contrary standards. this is called schizophrenia.
A lower grade psychosis that does not reach the level of clinical schizophrenia because ti is self-induced and self-maitnained, which is why the individual can apply two different standards using two different convictions as the circumstances require.
An example would be when a man believes appearances are superficial and that nobody should "judge a book by its cover" yet lives his life guided by appearances.
Another would be a Christian who fails to live-up top his own moral beliefs, going to confession to absolve himself of the weeks self-contradictions.

Self-Deciet - compartmentalization, i.e., schizophrenia - allows a mind to believe one thing - fanatically holding onto a set of ideological and spiritual convictions - while he behaves, judges, chooses, intuitively contrary to his own states convictions without suffering any difficulties of conscience, nor, even, being aware of it.
This state of mind is the "normal state" for modern lifestyles.
In fact, his fanaticism exposes self-doubt as Huxley pointed out...
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We may even expand this and say that most, if not all forms of addiction/obsession conceal some level of self-doubt, i.e., insecurity, lost of self-respect, trust in oneself, confidence.

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PostSubject: Re: Time Time EmptyThu May 11, 2023 7:11 am


Time = measures change
Time is a relationship between the human metabolic rhythms and the world's interactive dynamic cycles...

Eventually man uses an external standard, like the the relationship of earth to the sun...ate it moves around it and spins on its axis.

Time establishes past/present/future based on sequential events, i.e., interactions - linear time.
What is done cannot be undone.

Time is movement.
Time is the adjustment of probabilities as one moves through an expanding field of possibilities, i.e., space.
Probabilities/possibilities for interaction.
If we accelerate the movement through space, we change the probabilities of interacting towards the spatial direction we are moving, while decreasing it towards all other spatial directions.

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