Postcoital guilt/remorse after sex

Why does it happen?
Does it happen for the same reasons and to a same degree in males and females?

This very social-psychological-oriented article: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] cites:

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This can come down to cultural standards, our experiences in the past, and even our own complicated feelings when it comes to intimacy and sexual vulnerability. 

But I was thinking if we would dare to explore this phenomena more deeply. Maybe figure there could be even an evolutionary reason behind it?

This came up to me recently, when I participated in an all-male group. One of the guys asked the rest of us: "Have you guys ever experienced a strong feeling of remorse straight after you ejaculate?" all of us answered: "Oh yes" "Yep".

One of the guys told how he felt that strong remorse after being with a fat woman. And I started thinking, maybe the feeling has something (or more than something) to do with who you are being intimate with.

As a male, when I experience this postcoital guilt, bad feeling, I get at the same time kind of an impulse telling me to get away from her. Immediately. Don't spend the rest of the night.

A Finnish nonfiction writer Osmo Tammisalo has written a book about the biology behind mate choice. Though he is not an evolutionary psychologist or evolutionary biologist himself, he managed to pile together a lot of information about the subject. There is no translation of this Finnish book, but I'm just telling where I found this information that goes: In an evolutionary environment, males can feel disgusted about certain females, especially if they see a female being promiscuous. This has to do with these facts:
In an evolutionary environment, there is no condoms, antibiotics, abortion clinics and such.
Also it's not only chlamydia you need to worry about.
We must keep in mind that everything that is transmitted through blood, is transmitted through sex also.
So, sex with a slut in an evolutionary environment could be really dangerous.

In the book there is a brief view of The Domestic Bliss Theory presented by Richard Dawkins in A Selfish Gene:

Richard Dawkins wrote:

"The simplest version of the domestic-bliss strategy is this. The female looks the males over, and tries to spot signs of fidelity and domesticity in advance. There is bound to be variation in the population of males in their predisposition to be faithful husbands. If females could recognize such qualities in advance, they could benefit themselves by choosing males possessing them. One way for a female to do this is to play hard to get for a long time, to be coy. Any male who is not patient enough to wait until the female eventually consents to copulate is not likely to be a good bet as a faithful husband. By insisting on a long engagement period, a female weeds out casual suitors, and only finally copulates with a male who has proved his qualities of fidelity and perseverance in advance. Feminine coyness is in fact very common among animals, and so are prolonged courtship or engagement periods. As we have already seen, a long engagement can also benefit a male where there is a danger of his being duped into caring for another male's child.”

So a male can also be coy, and careful of who he goes with. Will he go with a sleazy and diseased slut (which could be dangerous) or a somewhat decent woman (more safe course of action)? Could it be that this postcoital guilt in males has something to do with this? Of course, POST-coital remorse doesn't remove the danger since the sexual act already happened. But maybe it's function in this case has just something to do with who is the person you just copulated with.

Of course we need to keep in mind that we are primates. So we don't always have the best impulse control. So, could this hate and remorse be kind of a super-ego rail against the id? We acted due to arousal, we lost control of ourselves, we were intoxicated, and later the human part of us hates the animal part of us that took over briefly?

But as I said earlier, I have noted this remorse and guilt has strongly to do with who I have been intimate with. In fact, I have lately been able to feel this remorse even before the sexual act takes place, by asking myself: "Would I want my possible future offspring to look like her?"
If the answer is yes, there is no remorse or guilt.
If the answer is no, there is a strong sense of remorse and guilt after (and even before, if I'm extra conscious) the sexual act.
Selfish genes speaking?

Also, I have noticed that the smell of a partner plays a very large part in this. If the partner smells bad to me, there usually is this sense of remorse and guilt. And I don't mean bad like she didn't take a shower in two weeks, but her basic individual scent being not attractive to me. 

Of course the problem is that we use nowadays so much perfumes that this, our biological system about evaluating our partners (through our senses, in this case the sense of smell) is not working too well. But I have noticed that I can - or at least I think I can - imagine the smell of the other. Maybe this is based on some subconscious evaluating happening in my brain, considering the markers of health and such of others. Anyway most times, if I look at the person and ask myself: "How I think he/she would smell?" I can imagine if that person smells bad or good.
If she smells bad, or if I even imagine she smells bad: there is immediate remorse and guilt. This can prevent the coitus happening.
If she smells good, or if I even imagine she smells good: there is no remorse or guilt any point at all, before or after coitus, and being with her for a longer period of time feels good.

Illiterate wrote:

Why does it happen?


This very social-psychological-oriented article: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] cites:

Quote :

This can come down to cultural standards, our experiences in the past, and even our own complicated feelings when it comes to intimacy and sexual vulnerability. 

Does it happen for the same reasons and to a same degree in males and females?

Men and women are different.
Shame?
It may have to do with having sex with no purpose, other than pleasure - or in relation to social morals.
For females it is also about being penetrated - an act of aggression, their physical being experiencing an intrusion they enjoy under the effects of hormones, which dissipate, leaving behind a sense of shame.
Love may prolong the intoxication, for women, for up to 7 years....then it dissipates and marriages and relationships end.

Quote :

But I was thinking if we would dare to explore this phenomenon more deeply. Maybe figure there could be even an evolutionary reason behind it?

See above for a possible evolutionary reason.
I think it's only a human phenomenon and is about culture - gene/meme - and how genetic impulses may contradict ideological, cultural norms.

This so called "walk of shame" is more a female thing....I don't think males would feel ashamed for having sex with a woman, unless she were taken, and then it would be guilt and the fear of being discovered.

Quote :

This came up to me recently, when I participated in an all-male group. One of the guys asked the rest of us: "Have you guys ever experienced a strong feeling of remorse straight after you ejaculate?" all of us answered: "Oh yes" "Yep".

When hormones subside reason is clarified....then one regrets the kind of woman they had sex with, due to the possible consequences.
In the throws of sexual intoxication the mind is no longer rational.

Quote :

One of the guys told how he felt that strong remorse after being with a fat woman. And I started thinking, maybe the feeling has something (or more than something) to do with who you are being intimate with.

I read this after I wrote the above.
That's exactly it.
A feeling of lowering your standards due to this overwhelming desire to expunge your libidinal energies.

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As a male, when I experience this postcoital guilt, bad feeling, I get at the same time kind of an impulse telling me to get away from her. Immediately. Don't spend the rest of the night.

Yes....fearing the consequences or that she may desire more.
A reluctance to invest more than you can afford to lose.

Quote :

A Finnish nonfiction writer Osmo Tammisalo has written a book about the biology behind mate choice. Though he is not an evolutionary psychologist or evolutionary biologist himself, he managed to pile together a lot of information about the subject. There is no translation of this Finnish book, but I'm just telling where I found this information that goes: In an evolutionary environment, males can feel disgusted about certain females, especially if they see a female being promiscuous. This has to do with these facts:
In an evolutionary environment, there is no condoms, antibiotics, abortion clinics and such.
Also it's not only chlamydia you need to worry about.
We must keep in mind that everything that is transmitted through blood, is transmitted through sex also.
So, sex with a slut in an evolutionary environment could be really dangerous.

A risk is always entailed in coitus, especially for the female.
Also, in nature sex is not binding. A male owes nothing to the female he had sex with.
There's no long-term cost to having sex with a sub-stadard female.
Also the quality of the female exposes the quality of the male - more so, the quality of the male exposes the sexual value of the female, this is why females always try to get the superior male.

Quote :

In the book there is a brief view of The Domestic Bliss Theory presented by Richard Dawkins in A Selfish Gene:

Richard Dawkins wrote:

"The simplest version of the domestic-bliss strategy is this. The female looks the males over, and tries to spot signs of fidelity and domesticity in advance. There is bound to be variation in the population of males in their predisposition to be faithful husbands. If females could recognize such qualities in advance, they could benefit themselves by choosing males possessing them. One way for a female to do this is to play hard to get for a long time, to be coy. Any male who is not patient enough to wait until the female eventually consents to copulate is not likely to be a good bet as a faithful husband. By insisting on a long engagement period, a female weeds out casual suitors, and only finally copulates with a male who has proved his qualities of fidelity and perseverance in advance. Feminine coyness is in fact very common among animals, and so are prolonged courtship or engagement periods. As we have already seen, a long engagement can also benefit a male where there is a danger of his being duped into caring for another male's child.”

Ok, now you are mixing male with female attitudes towards sex.
For a female submitting to a male with fit markers may be followed with remorse because he lacks the socioeconomic markers, ro may lack stability etc.
She feels guilty for succumbing to her primal, physical judgments, when she her mind was intoxicated by lust.

Another example of gene/meme dissonance. Particularly for women, who are genetic and memetic filters, this dissonance is what makes them more choosy.
Her body, evolved in nature, has different criteria than her mind, educated and habituated to cultural ideals - especially pronounced if the human environment is dominated by nihilistic memes/ideologies, as it is presently in the west.
Imagine how a blue haired postmodern female would feel if she had sex with a jock that didn't share her postmodern ideals.

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So a male can also be coy, and careful of who he goes with. Will he go with a sleazy and diseased slut (which could be dangerous) or a somewhat decent woman (more safe course of action)? Could it be that this postcoital guilt in males has something to do with this? Of course, POST-coital remorse doesn't remove the danger since the sexual act already happened. But maybe it's function in this case has just something to do with who is the person you just copulated with.

This is also about feminization.
Western nihilistic norms force males to become more like women in sexual matters.

Also, modern systems hold the male accountable for pregnancies, so having sex with a sub-stadad female risks a longer commitment, reducing all his future sexual probabilities.

Quote :

Of course we need to keep in mind that we are primates. So we don't always have the best impulse control. So, could this hate and remorse be kind of a super-ego rail against the id? We acted due to arousal, we lost control of ourselves, we were intoxicated, and later the human part of us hates the animal part of us that took over briefly?

See my previous responses.

Quote :

But as I said earlier, I have noted this remorse and guilt has strongly to do with who I have been intimate with. In fact, I have lately been able to feel this remorse even before the sexual act takes place, by asking myself: "Would I want my possible future offspring to look like her?"
If the answer is yes, there is no remorse or guilt.
If the answer is no, there is a strong sense of remorse and guilt after (and even before, if I'm extra conscious) the sexual act.
Selfish genes speaking?

Selfish gene conflicting with selfish memes.
The meme - ideal - urges you towards a specific type of woman, with particular physical and mental traits.....so if the female before you doesn't have those traits a conflict is produced between your primal, genetic, desire to copulate and your rational mind's ideals.
Gene/Meme dissonance.

Males are being feminized - forcing them to think like females.

Quote :

Also, I have noticed that the smell of a partner plays a very large part in this. If the partner smells bad to me, there usually is this sense of remorse and guilt. And I don't mean bad like she didn't take a shower in two weeks, but her basic individual scent being not attractive to me. 

All the senses produce a physical judgement.
The body judges and chooses....the mind may override this judgement.
Scent indicates body chemistry - compatibility, and health.

Quote :

Of course the problem is that we use nowadays so much perfumes that this, our biological system about evaluating our partners (through our senses, in this case the sense of smell) is not working too well. But I have noticed that I can - or at least I think I can - imagine the smell of the other. Maybe this is based on some subconscious evaluating happening in my brain, considering the markers of health and such of others. Anyway most times, if I look at the person and ask myself: "How I think he/she would smell?" I can imagine if that person smells bad or good.
If she smells bad, or if I even imagine she smells bad: there is immediate remorse and guilt. This can prevent the coitus happening.
If she smells good, or if I even imagine she smells good: there is no remorse or guilt any point at all, before or after coitus, and being with her for a longer period of time feels good.

For females scent is crucial. they are intuitive creatures that do not require to understand.
There was a blind test where attractive and not so attractive males wore a similar white t-shirt for a day and then these t-shirts were given to females to evaluate.
The females almost always chose the attractive male's shirt.
This is what females refer to as "chemistry".
If her body is attracted the male can do and say anything and she will think it is charming....if the man is not attractive to her, he cannot say anything that will make her think of him as charming.
But, if there are other factors imposed upon her rational mind, forcing her to mate with such a male, then she may feel ashamed.

Body communicates and judges and chooses, on a subconscious level, and then transmits this to the brain.
The brain may choose to ignore the data due to other factors.

I am not certain if this fits into this subject, but would appreciate an opinion on it.

I was talking on my phone during a break outside of my workplace.

A man walked by and smiled at me, he was a handsome guy, I smiled back but kept talking for a further 5 or 10 mins.

I started to walk back and he came behind me, I was rather startled and he handed me a piece of paper saying "you dropped this".

I was adamant I did not and told him so, but he was determined and said "yes, you dropped this" he looked at me with a smile and I opened the paper and it had his phone number on it.

Is this any different from people going on dating sites and hooking up with complete strangers, or is this a weird thing for a man to do?

Pride is the opposite of Shame/Guilt.

Consider when you are proud of your sexual copulation/masturbation, versus disappointed. As mentioned in this thread, when you have sex with a beautiful woman, a 'score', then you feel proud about yourself. Consider a woman of high-value, who plays "hard-to-get", and you win. You beat-out the competition, her other suitors. There is a sense of immense pride being the #1 choice, the top-dog.

Shame/guilt, then, is failure. You are failing your biological/sexual prerogative. Most males fail. This is a simple fact in mammalian/Human species. Most males will fail throughout life, a small selection of males will 'Win' the sexual competition.

Therefore, Shame/Guilt is commonplace, Pride is rare.

Freyja wrote:

I am not certain if this fits into this subject, but would appreciate an opinion on it.

I was talking on my phone during a break outside of my workplace.

A man walked by and smiled at me, he was a handsome guy, I smiled back but kept talking for a further 5 or 10 mins.

I started to walk back and he came behind me, I was rather startled and he handed me a piece of paper saying "you dropped this".

I was adamant I did not and told him so, but he was determined and said "yes, you dropped this" he looked at me with a smile and I opened the paper and it had his phone number on it.

Is this any different from people going on dating sites and hooking up with complete strangers, or is this a weird thing for a man to do?

Sounds normal...a popular method.

Quote :

Sounds normal...a popular method.

So.......if I don't respond, he will suffer no shame or sense of rejection, but if I do respond he will bask in a sense of immense pride being the top dog....... an Alpha male.

On reflection an Alpha would not do this, he/she would not hand over a piece of paper they would stay and approach the person directly.

There would be no shame/guilt/pride only expected acceptance from me.

Nope.
rejection is manimal.
He probably does this often.
Gives out his number and whoever calls, calls.

Yeah, sounds like normal male behavior.

A male simply finds the best method of courtship that works. Whatever approach works, works. Like Satyr said, he no doubt does it often. Casting fishing lines everywhere, hoping for a bite. Sexual persistence is key to male sexual success; eventually one bites.

Words matter, in the way we speak in gender terms.

Could he be the masculine equivalent of the derogatory terms slut or whore?

Freyja wrote:

Words matter, in the way we speak in gender terms.

Could he be the masculine equivalent of the derogatory terms slut or whore?

Man whore?
Perhaps.
Don't know enough.
If he only did it with you, and once in a while...no. He may just be shy.
If this is part of his mo....standard practice, like casting nets, or baits, to catch catch a fish or two, ro ten...then he's a man-whore...a playa...