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 Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men.

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:47 pm

mannequin wrote:
Satyr, I think he needs some extra homework..
scratch

Like what?

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Impulso Oscuro

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:27 pm

It seems like there have been many whom have realized the consequences of releasing the female beast, but never tend to go the extra mile and bring up the possibility of releasing the male beast in response to this. How long will it be? Until they begin to listen to the voice that has been repressed in the dark?

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:43 pm

mannequin wrote:
Her "goodness" is in the changeable aspect of her filtration, or can refer to the refinement aspect of the filter, relative to the ongoing fluctuation of reality because there are no absolutes, in this case..security, stability etc..This is why they are more geared to move towards wealthy men, purely for the wealth, even if it involves them eventually leaving intentionally. It's seductive but more promising since the system set up the circumstances. We can say, the filtration mechanism has been corrupted due to the modern nature of the environment, if you want to put it like that, or the modern environment exposes a larger picture of the filtration, or the nature of woman...the respect is relative, not only individually, but also in the context of time as women are a means to an end. She naturally "chooses" what is most ordered because of the chaotic nature of her essence, it's a demanding response.

I'm not even going to answer your question to me because I feel like this obviously known, especially here!..you can find fragments in what i just wrote...

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the paradigm beneath that opportunity causes them to destroy themselves...

But why do they destroy themselves? Because of a bad environment?
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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:33 pm

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
It seems like there have been many whom have realized the consequences of releasing the female beast, but never tend to go the extra mile and bring up the possibility of releasing the male beast in response to this. How long will it be? Until they begin to listen to the voice that has been repressed in the dark?


Great find...
Someone should invite him to KT.

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:38 pm







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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:18 am

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"The name Myrrhine is derived from the Greek word for “myrtle,” which in slang is used to refer to a woman’s vagina. Myrrhine is also an extremely common name for prostitutes and courtesans…

The lexicon of marriage does not always designate iustum coniugium, legitimate citizen marriage; hence persons described as “vir,” “coniunx,” even “uxor,” “sponsus,” and “maritus,” are not actually married in the eyes of the law (see Copley 1956, 103, 165).

Propertius 3.20 demonstrates how elegy plays with the language of legal wedlock: it is riddled with marital vocabulary, including references to technical parts of the wedding ceremony (“foedera ponenda,” “signanda iura,” “scribenda lex” [15–16]; “Amor . . . suo constringit pignora signo” [17]; “pactas in foedera . . . aras, novo sacra marita toro” [25–26]).
But the lover is here addressing a woman whose man has left (1–4), and he offers himself to her not as a husband but as a boyfriend:
“Your house would be fortunate, if only you had a faithful boyfriend! / I shall be faithful: run into my bed, girl!” (fortunata domus, modo sit tibi fidus amicus! / fidus ero: in nostros curre, puella, toros) (9–10).

Independent courtesans in Rome could make agreements, contracts, with individual men, by which they would enter into cohabitation without becoming owned concubines; such arrangements were supposed to be exclusive, though there was no single formula (see Zagagi 1980, 118–20, and Herter 1960, 81–82). The contracting man, known simply as the vir, paid an annual fee, the merces annua, which guaranteed him rights to the courtesan. These rights had all the legal force of the lex at Propertius 3.20.16 (see also leges at Asinaria 234, 747, and 809), and their rights (iura) were a matter of custom and private agreement rather than law.

The word “vir” does not necessarily designate a husband, and that the apparently marital relationships of elegy are not citizen marriages, but what Lyne (1980, 240), citing Stroh (1979, 333–37), calls “de facto marriages.”

Ars 2.545 distinguishes between a man with rights over a woman by custom or contract and the actual husband of a legal wife (legitima uxor). Such a distinction hardly needs to be made unless there are pseudomarital relationships that use the vocabulary of marriage.

The elegiac puella [i]s unmarriageable, as a woman under the control of neither husband nor pimp (nor father), a woman making her living by the sexual attraction of men who have money and property, a woman of social independence if not financial security, a woman who can say both “no” and “yes” to sexual propositions without fear of legal or communal reprisal. This description identifies her as an independent courtesan, the one woman an elite Roman male needed to persuade.

Professional obligations to dine, drink, and socialize called for calculation rather than spontaneity. Indeed, the ability to keep track and control of competing interests and agents required careful attention, even if that watchfulness must often have been contrarily disguised as loss of control.

Genuine loss of control is the great taboo for the courtesan, who must above all else keep her head. To maintain her lover’s interest without becoming too easy, too boring, or too demanding, she must play a complex game of seduction and refusal; she must keep up her income; and she must be alert against the possibility of violence. Her job is to keep her suitors impassioned enough to keep supplying her with money and material possessions. Further, her economic condition requires her to make all her money while she is young—and her impending old age is the one threat that her lovers hold out against her, as she will attract no more lovers once her professional viability has expired. She must attract more than one lover at a time and she must be able to keep more than one in suspension even at the same party. Further, she knows that her relationship with any given man can neither last for very long nor support her adequately in its duration. Thus, when she goes to a dinner party she must either be on the lookout for new clients or find a way to engage with her side clients, keeping her vir satisfied all the while. Hence her complex choreography of communicative eating and drinking (even sneezing), of prearranged signals, of quick cloakroom rendezvous. To balance competing male anxieties on such an evening, when her every action is under observation by more than one party, whose interests are opposed, requires a cool head and a great deal of self-control (another problem for the anxious males). The women who successfully navigated their way through the Scyllas and Charybdises of male anxiety and sexual jealousy must have been formidable characters indeed, and posed a significant, if short-lived, threat to elite Roman masculinity." [Kelly Olson: Faraone, Prostitutes and Courtesans in the Ancient World]

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:20 am

Actors and Prostitutes.

Quote :
"Repugnance and fascination are the twin poles of the process in which a political imperative to reject and eliminate the debasing ‘low’ conflicts powerfully and unpredictably with a desire for this Other”. Stallybrass and White present several accounts of the desire of a higher-class man for a woman of low social status, including Freud’s boyhood fascination with his governess.

The Romans consistently placed actors and prostitutes at the bottom of the ladder in terms of their legal status. Numerous republican-era statutes ascribe to both professions infamis status (as well as to a number of other despised occupations, such as gladiator, gladiator-trainer, and pimp).

Catharine Edwards (1997) has discussed the ways in which the Ro- mans in the early imperial era viewed actors, prostitutes, and gladiators as low, shameful, yet desirable performers; she argues that the Romans associated public performance of any kind with immorality, especially if women were involved. Her findings are supported by Dorothea French’s study of the status of mime actresses in the Christian era of the Roman Empire (1998). Both scholars make the case for a Roman tendency to view women who “performed” in public as whores, both figuratively and literally (French 1998, 296).

Actors and prostitutes were both infamis; they were both versions of the Roman masculine subject’s low-other. But a crucial differ- ence separated them from citizen women, eunuchs, foreigners, slaves, or even gladiators: actors and prostitutes operated under the sign of the fictional, the feigned, the fake. Actors and prostitutes could thus be seen as equivalent: the actor is a prostitute, the prostitute is an actor.

The fact that the meretrix in Roman Comedy is so often accused of lying is another sign of the interrelatedness of prostitutes and actors; the sincerity of her affections is never above question.

Whether they are “good,” sincere courtesans who are truly in love with their young men—the proverbial hookers with hearts of gold—or “bad,” self-serving, conniving whores, all meretrices in Roman Comedy display a metatheatrical ability to seduce, charm, and deceive, and all of them display an awareness that they have to take certain measures to ensure their own financial security. And regardless of whether a given meretrix is “really” good or bad, most meretrices are accused of being bad (that is, faithless, self-interested, and mercenary) at some point during a given play, whether by the adulescens, his slave, or both.

The adulescens typically complains about the two-facedness of the meretrix: when he has money, she is sweet and welcoming, but when his money runs out, she shuts him out of the house.

In this way, the meretrix in Roman Comedy functions as a figure for the actor; she feigns for a living, enchanting the spectator. And therefore, the adulescens, who oscillates between rapturous delight and desire for his beloved girl, and bitter, disillusioned contempt for his mercenary whore, functions as a figure for the Roman theatrical audience, oscillating between delight in theatrical pretense and suspicion of the performance and the performers that they are watching. Neither view is “the” Roman view of prostitutes or actors—both were available in Roman culture, and audiences could tap into either one at any given moment. But the more the adulescens desires the meretrix, the more bitterly he feels he has been duped when she shuts him out of the house—and the more the audience enjoys the actor, the more anxious they feel about their desire for empty spectacle and literally infamous performers.

The meretrix appears in a number of Plautine plays, and whenever she has a significant speaking role, she functions as a figure for the actor. The Plautine meretrix is an expert dissembler, sometimes compared explicitly to an actor, who typically tells her “director” that she needs no coaching in deception.

The third component of the correspondence between the actor and the prostitute at Rome is their shared custom of cross-dressing. Both female prostitutes and male actors (which is to say, all actors, except for mime actresses—who were commonly assumed to be whores) cross-dressed as part of their professional presentation: female prostitutes wore the toga, and male actors regularly costumed themselves as women to play female roles.

The assumption of the toga is a complex cultural signifier. To contemporary Westerners, cross-dressing signifies gender deviance, perhaps gender defiance (thus, e.g., Butler 1990). But a woman dressing as a man can also signify within a culture what Marjorie Garber calls the “progress narrative”—that is, she “has” to cross-dress because it allows her access to opportunities or resources that she could not gain access to as a woman.

To the Romans, the woman wearing a toga signified that her sexual appetites exceeded the womanly ideal; she had “masculine” levels of lust (see Parker 1997, 58–59).  The final significance of the toga for the Roman prostitute: it signified that she acted. It was her costume. The prostitute’s toga worked like any actor’s costume: it called attention to the appearance-reality gap (that is, to the fact that she was a woman, but not one wearing a palla, not a good woman), even as it worked to assimilate the woman wearing it to her known role. It both revealed and concealed." [Ann Duncan: Faraone, Prostitutes and Courtesans in the Ancient World]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:02 pm

perpetualburn wrote:


But why do they destroy themselves?  Because of a bad environment?

The modern man is no longer a middle man to protect the women from themselves, thus she will destroy herself through other men and possibly women, or by herself.
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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:07 am

The instinctual, genetic, desire to mate with the superior translates into the social, memetic, desire/need/want, to marry upwards, using monogamy, and the restrictions imposed upon sexual behaviour sin both males and females, to climb the socioeconomic status ladder.
The female’s psychology determined by her organ hierarchies, manifests as a personæ dominated wither by body, organs other than brain, or her brain, and external stimuli, collected into abstractions.
This difference between body/mind determines the female’s sexual proclivities, and her standards of evaluating a male entity’s quality.
A more physical female will use instinctual, genetic criteria: instinct evaluating symmetry, proportionality, first and foremost.
A more cerebral female will use mental symmetry, psychological proportionality, and how these relate, and compare to memetic criteria, and ideals.
Her standard is an idea(l), a human construct, a meme, which all men are compared to and none manage to live-up to.
A female dominated by body, or an organ other than her brain, will place higher emphasis on internal, esoteric, intuitive, sources of judgment, and will be a more direct agency of nature – nature being the sum of all past nurturing. Her brain will only add to her judgment, validating it, or excusing it, once her body has spoken.
A female dominated by mind, or brain dominated by stimuli it collects from external, exoteric sources, reasoning and abstracting, will be more idealistic, in that she will use socioeconomic, cultural abstractions to judge all and everything.
In her case masculine competition occurs in the arena of idea(l)s, and all are judged in reference to it.
Hypergamy in the latter case takes the form of finding and committing, and giving herself to the strongest, most virile, most healthy meme.
The particular male is judged in relation to the meme, and his genetics are secondary.

The first type will be seduced and demand the highest price, as evidence of a male's seriousness, from a single male - her proofs and judgments will be physical (phenomena) - idea(l)s will be secondary to this primary standard, increasing or decreasing the effect upon her.
The second will be seduced and demand the highest price, as evidence of a male's seriousness, from an idea(l) - her proofs and judgments will be intellectual (noumena), but, since idea(l)s have no corporeal presence, particularly ones produced by nihilistic memes, she will also need to find a phenomena, a "real" male representing her memetic idea(l), to the greatest degree possible - the physical will be secondary to this primary standard, increasing, or decreasing the effect upon her.

An inferior female will be distinguished from the superior one accordingly.
For the physical type it is one who gives herself to quantities, rather than of quality males, exposing a low physical standard of evaluation.  
for the intellectual type it is the one who gives herself to multiple idea(l)s, simultaneously, rather than the highest, exposing a low intellectual level of evaluation.

In both cases the female’s motive is to raise her estimation, her esteem; her value, within the environment she is forced to live in.
Raising her value makes her judgment, her sexual role of choosing, more potent, more respectable.
Value is always in reference to time/space making the mind/body psychological divide relevant.
The more physical female will judge presence, as manifestation of past/nature within a confined perceptual-event-horizon. Her temporal/spatial standards will be shallow.
The more intellectual female will judge using the more timeless, unaffected by space/time, abstractions, broadening and deepening her perceptual-event-horizon.
In relation to this noetic standard all phenomena will be juxtaposed and evaluated, including males.

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:18 am

will women eventually see the modern man as an enemy to her choice?
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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:56 am

mannequin wrote:
will women eventually see the modern man as an enemy to her choice?

As long as big daddy is around, no.

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:10 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Women and Prostitution. The Primal Instigators And Bane Of Men. Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:07 pm

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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*Become clean, my friends.*
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