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PostSubject: If I have to.... Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:48 pm

Hear you whine and complain about slave morality and the mishaps of christianity one more time smoke is going to be shooting from my ears....

It is seriously so old and not worth discussing and you guys base everything on Nietzsche's 'good' or 'evil'....


Is it wrong or right? Who the hell cares....you follow the law or get put in jail. I think that's pretty straight forward.

Is Christianity made to enslave you? I don't know....maybe the real question is whether or not you see yourself as a slave with or without it....because I see a lot of delusional people out there who think just because they don't believe in anything that their IQ went up 50 pts.

You can blame Jesus for everything or the big bad capitalists or you can get over it and be more practical about your freedoms and lack thereof.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:57 pm

The truth is there is such a thing as morality because it dictates everything we do. Morality is needed to keep a large society in order.

It is nothing more than a form of agreement among a body of people that there will be fair treatment.

There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with this.

What really enslaves you goes much much deeper than religion or morality.

People that can't see through this and dwell on the religion/morality argument for years on end seem to be mentally incapable of reaching the real issues.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:52 pm

Poison IV wrote:
The truth is there is such a thing as morality because it dictates everything we do. Morality is needed to keep a large society in order.

It is nothing more than a form of agreement among a body of people that there will be fair treatment.

There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with this.

What really enslaves you goes much much deeper than religion or morality.

People that can't see through this and dwell on the religion/morality argument for years on end seem to be mentally incapable of reaching the real issues.

Morality is an agreement. Nothing more. We agree to it because it is in our self interest. This is because we are always alone in our own bodies: objects occupying space. We only assume that the other object has this perceiving thing looking out of its eyes, much like our own, out of a leap of faith.

We are always trapped in our own skin with our own perceiving thing. Morality is always outside of us. Nevertheless, we always project into the world through it -among other things. Morality is a kind filter that we work with the outside world through.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:46 pm

Yes, and it has been present far before we ever called it morality. Every group of people has its rules of conduct.

What the people on this board mainly complain about is overpopulation without realizing it. When law is used to control a group so large that it has no say, this is what we call something like democracy where we have laws declaring that everyone chose to get their 'rights' handed to them and everyone agrees to follow the same ones because they were told to be it from church, school, or law enforcement.

No one likes that, sure. But often times the fire gets thrown in the wrong direction. It isn't morality that they hate.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:52 pm

For instance, you being a beautiful object (like a saphire, or diamond, or a Van Gogh( allow me to lay this experiment on you. I am looking at your avatar. Then I say: I am looking at myself looking at your avatar. Then I could say I am looking at myself looking at myself looking at your avatar.

I could go on forever like that until I am like 2 mirrors reflecting one another. What I can never actaully look at is the thing that is looking throughout the whole process: the perceiving thing.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:00 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Yes, and it has been present far before we ever called it morality. Every group of people has its rules of conduct.

What the people on this board mainly complain about is overpopulation without realizing it. When law is used to control a group so large that it has no say, this is what we call something like democracy where we have laws declaring that everyone chose to get their 'rights' handed to them and everyone agrees to follow the same ones because they were told to be it from church, school, or law enforcement.

No one likes that, sure. But often times the fire gets thrown in the wrong direction. It isn't morality that they hate.

It's usually restraints on behavior they want to engage in shut down by morality that causes people to hate morality. But we're all guilty of this. Unfortunately, we have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:11 pm

It's not even behavior they would engage in, they just want to look like badasses and pick up babes :]
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:11 pm

Morality is not a bad word.

The kind of morality is what is in question.
The noble spirit is filled with the self-imposed ethos he holds himself accountable to.

Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, is not one of them.

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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:15 pm

Σατυρ wrote:
Morality is not a bad word.

The kind of morality is what is in question.
The noble spirit is filled with the self-imposed ethos he holds himself accountable to.

Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, is not one of them.
I am in complete agreement with this. Loving myself precludes loving some of my neighbors.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:20 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Yes, and it has been present far before we ever called it morality. Every group of people has its rules of conduct.

What the people on this board mainly complain about is overpopulation without realizing it. When law is used to control a group so large that it has no say, this is what we call something like democracy where we have laws declaring that everyone chose to get their 'rights' handed to them and everyone agrees to follow the same ones because they were told to be it from church, school, or law enforcement.

No one likes that, sure. But often times the fire gets thrown in the wrong direction. It isn't morality that they hate.
Most antimorality arguments assume a morality which they see the other morals as going against.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:54 am

In my experience morality is about power or lack of it. It's when people are powerless that they suddenly become moral, demanding rights and privileges from the powerful, demanding to be noticed and expecting consideration above that which their status in society would naturally give them.

Morality is about gaining more control, more power over the world, over others.

I don't see it amongst the wealthy, other than as a way in which they can express their own power, as in a billionaire, for example, funding education and health care in a third world country.

What's particularly interesting is to watch how religious morality operates amongst the poor, as they use it to determine who is the best, trying to scrabble to the top of the heap like rats, snitching on their neighbours, accusing others of impropriety, even, in places like Iran, condemning others to death and joining in the stoning.

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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:03 am

Lilith wrote:
In my experience morality is about power or lack of it. It's when people are powerless that they suddenly become moral, demanding rights and privileges from the powerful, demanding to be noticed and expecting consideration above that which their status in society would naturally give them.

Morality is about gaining more control, more power over the world, over others.

And in this regard we are all powerless to varying degrees.
We all lack control to varying degrees.
We are all weak to varying degrees.

You should alter your viewpoint. Instead of thinking of strength as the given, upon which weakness is imposed, think of weakness as the given upon which strength is imposed as a variation of its degree in relation to another.
Think of the universe as a negative place, not a positive one, because it is.

Even the billionaire with his materialism or his passion for wealth and privilege has a morality.

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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:17 am

Σατυρ wrote:
Morality is not a bad word.

The kind of morality is what is in question.
The noble spirit is filled with the self-imposed ethos he holds himself accountable to.

Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, is not one of them.

No parable or saying is meant to be taken so literally. It's your fault for having a grudge towards something so truly innocent as to be a child's rhyme.

No one in society is really going to come up to you and say you have to like everyone you meet unless they're a complete moron. We each have common sense and pieces of wisdom passed on for generations to go along with it--take it with a grain of salt.....seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:19 am

Kovacs wrote:
Most antimorality arguments assume a morality which they see the other morals as going against.

In my experience this really isn't the case...

It's usually just Nietzschean clones that are still mad at their mom and dads.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:30 am

Lilith wrote:
In my experience morality is about power or lack of it. It's when people are powerless that they suddenly become moral, demanding rights and privileges from the powerful, demanding to be noticed and expecting consideration above that which their status in society would naturally give them.

Morality is about gaining more control, more power over the world, over others.

This is actually not why morality spread. People genuinely want to get along and be protected.


Quote :
I don't see it amongst the wealthy, other than as a way in which they can express their own power, as in a billionaire, for example, funding education and health care in a third world country.

The wealthy are extremely moral---thou shalt not steal is their favorite.


Quote :
What's particularly interesting is to watch how religious morality operates amongst the poor, as they use it to determine who is the best, trying to scrabble to the top of the heap like rats, snitching on their neighbours, accusing others of impropriety, even, in places like Iran, condemning others to death and joining in the stoning.


Like I said, the difference lies in size of the population. When there is a large populace enforcing the same ground rules there are going to be foreseeable consequences.

People are crying out for their autonomy in a world that has taken over any amount of real giving or compassion they might naturally possess and so run straight to the hypocrisy of those 'some people' and then reject anything they affiliate themselves with while ignoring the fact that it is not what they hide behind that is responsible.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:54 pm

Poison IV wrote:
This is actually not why morality spread. People genuinely want to get along and be protected.
If you examine the skull morphology of priests and their body types, you will find much in common with those of contemporary scientists and politicians.

It's naive to think that people just want to get along with each other. It assumes that nature is static and unchanging, when in reality evolution moves us relentlessly forward, forcing individuals and groups into conflict. Death being the main tool nature uses in order to clear room for more evolution to take place.

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The wealthy are extremely moral---thou shalt not steal is their favorite.
Protecting their wealth - purely selfish reasons. Why are the law makers the powerful, and why when people gain power do they attempt to change the laws or operate outside of them for their own benefit?

Isn't it true that when people become powerful they feel it is now, in a sense, their turn to run things?
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:27 am

Poison IV wrote:
Hear you whine and complain about slave morality and the mishaps of christianity one more time smoke is going to be shooting from my ears....

It is seriously so old and not worth discussing and you guys base everything on Nietzsche's 'good' or 'evil'....


Is it wrong or right? Who the hell cares....you follow the law or get put in jail. I think that's pretty straight forward.

Is Christianity made to enslave you? I don't know....maybe the real question is whether or not you see yourself as a slave with or without it....because I see a lot of delusional people out there who think just because they don't believe in anything that their IQ went up 50 pts.

You can blame Jesus for everything or the big bad capitalists or you can get over it and be more practical about your freedoms and lack thereof.

Quote :
Hear you whine and complain about slave morality and the mishaps of christianity one more time smoke is going to be shooting from my ears....

Since when have you become so religious and christian? Cool

Where is that young bad girl Miss N that I used to adore?

The older mature Poison is kinda boring to me.

Quote :

It is seriously so old and not worth discussing and you guys base everything on Nietzsche's 'good' or 'evil'....

Not all of us worship that dead man's corpse in that were able to have enough concrete thought and some level of self introspection on our own thank you very much.

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What is it wrong or right? Who the hell cares....you follow the law or get put in jail. I think that's pretty straight forward.

It's so much more complicated than just that.

However if you wish to worship authority that is your prerogative.

Quote :
Is Christianity made to enslave you?

All religions are meant to enslave.



Quote :
maybe the real question is whether or not you see yourself as a slave with or without it....

In this world almost everybody is enslaved to some role when it concerns some level of facilitation within society.



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because I see a lot of delusional people out there who think just because they don't believe in anything that their IQ went up 50 pts.

Really? That's cool.

Quote :
You can blame Jesus for everything or the big bad capitalists or you can get over it and be more practical about your freedoms and lack thereof.

I really don't concern myself with fictional Jews.

As for capitalists I believe there is some reasonable arguments to be made in their criticism.

Practical about freedom? What is freedom?

Quote :

The truth is there is such a thing as morality because it dictates everything we do. Morality is needed to keep a large society in order.

A large society in order..... Wow, that sounds absolutely fascinating.

What is order? Who benefits from order? Why do we need order?

Why must society prevail? Who benefits from society's ongoing prevalence?


Quote :


It is nothing more than a form of agreement among a body of people that there will be fair treatment.


A form of mutual collective agreement? Laughing

Do you know how ridiculous that statement sounds? Your living in fantasy dear.

Realistically that is so entirely absence in society that just hearing statements like that is utterly painful.

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There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with this.

There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with anything.

Here comes my amorality.


Quote :
What really enslaves you goes much much deeper than religion or morality.

Oh, really?
Quote :

People that can't see through this and dwell on the religion/morality argument for years on end seem to be mentally incapable of reaching the real issues.

What exactly are the real issues Poison? Enlighten us all.



Last edited by TheJoker on Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:37 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:44 am

d63tark wrote:
Poison IV wrote:
The truth is there is such a thing as morality because it dictates everything we do. Morality is needed to keep a large society in order.

It is nothing more than a form of agreement among a body of people that there will be fair treatment.

There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with this.

What really enslaves you goes much much deeper than religion or morality.

People that can't see through this and dwell on the religion/morality argument for years on end seem to be mentally incapable of reaching the real issues.

Morality is an agreement. Nothing more. We agree to it because it is in our self interest. This is because we are always alone in our own bodies: objects occupying space. We only assume that the other object has this perceiving thing looking out of its eyes, much like our own, out of a leap of faith.

We are always trapped in our own skin with our own perceiving thing. Morality is always outside of us. Nevertheless, we always project into the world through it -among other things. Morality is a kind filter that we work with the outside world through.

Quote :
d63: Morality is an agreement. Nothing more.

No it isn't. Social morality and ethics are enforced ultimatums.

If you do this and that you will be punished, imprisoned, or executed.

There is no mutual collective agreement on anything in society.

Social politics and democracy is a joke.

There is no social contract between individuals. The social contract is mythic.

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We agree to it because it is in our self interest.

It becomes apart of our self interests because of the guns pointed to our heads if we don't.

Quote :
This is because we are always alone in our own bodies: objects occupying space. We only assume that the other object has this perceiving thing looking out of its eyes, much like our own, out of a leap of faith.

We are always trapped in our own skin with our own perceiving thing. Morality is always outside of us. Nevertheless, we always project into the world through it -among other things. Morality is a kind filter that we work with the outside world through.

Morality is outside of us? Laughing How is that?

Morality is all in people's head. It's a belief just like any other.

What is the difference between morality and ethics when it concerns a belief of social taboos versus that of a religious belief in god? If you study both long enough you will find very little difference at all between them.

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Satyr: Morality is not a bad word.

The world is the way it is whether morality and ethics exists as beliefs or not.

Their presence in all reality is meaningless.


Quote :

The kind of morality is what is in question.

All morality and ethics is the same to me. Stinking huge piles of bullshit where a group of individuals bullshit other individuals into submission and so on.

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The noble spirit is filled with the self-imposed ethos he holds himself accountable to.

What is nobility? What is a ethos? Why does anything really matter?

More useless judgments that don't really mean anything at all.



Quote :

Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, is not one of them.

I just prefer to love myself anymore and fuck everybody else.






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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:39 pm

All morality and ethics are delusional. They're all built upon various absurdities.


There is only what you can do and what you can't.

There is only what your allowed to do and what your not allowed.

There is only the excusable and the forbidden.

There is only regulators and thieves.

There is only policing and various defiances.


Of course even the regulators and the police find themselves becoming corrupt on their own sense of fictional duties.

That's where social inequality comes into the picture and grand scheme of things.

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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Σατυρ wrote:
Morality is not a bad word.

The kind of morality is what is in question.
The noble spirit is filled with the self-imposed ethos he holds himself accountable to.

Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, is not one of them.

No parable or saying is meant to be taken so literally. It's your fault for having a grudge towards something so truly innocent as to be a child's rhyme.

No one in society is really going to come up to you and say you have to like everyone you meet unless they're a complete moron. We each have common sense and pieces of wisdom passed on for generations to go along with it--take it with a grain of salt.....seriously.

Quote :
No one in society is really going to come up to you and say you have to like everyone you meet unless they're a complete moron.

They don't have to.

We have laws in place that with the iron fist of the law enforces everybody to get along with each other where everybody out of fear tries to obey imperfectly.

Quote :
People genuinely want to get along and be protected.

Bullshit. People are egotistical and selfish where they only care about their own self interests.

Occasionally they will make alliances with others who have similar interests but for the most part people only give a damn about themselves.

Quote :
The wealthy are extremely moral---thou shalt not steal is their favorite.

That's because all laws, morals, ethics, and government is handed on down from up high.

All matters of authority stems from the upper socially elite classes that make up rules out of thin air for everybody else that mostly benefit themselves.

Of course the wealthy are going to cherish institutions and traditions that harnesses their security the most even if such happens to be complete bullshit that makes no sense whatsoever.

The more idiotic the lower working classes become is all the better for the upper socially elite classes because they have plenty of elaborate fictions to dangle over their heads when it concerns mind control and indoctrination where if one form fails they simply go to the next one already planned out.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:42 pm

*Face palm*

Sweet, sweet Natalie....

Some people just .....won't ever get it....

Love of self is all you need.

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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:44 pm

And btw, I do talk to myself on a regular basis....
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:47 pm

Poison IV wrote:
*Face palm*

Sweet, sweet Natalie....

Some people just .....won't ever get it....

Love of self is all you need.



And btw, I do talk to myself on a regular basis....

Too late. You've been caught and exposed.
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:48 pm

I tried explaining it to you :[

I'm a terrible teacher....
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:48 pm

Poison IV wrote:
I tried explaining it to you :[

I'm a terrible teacher....

What are you trying to explain to me sweety? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:51 pm

Nothing....it's fine....

[sniffles and looks away]

......

*No one understands meeeeeee******


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
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PostSubject: Re: If I have to.... Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:56 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Nothing....it's fine....

[sniffles and looks away]

......

*No one understands meeeeeee******


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

You can cry on my shoulder sugar. I'll warm you up. Smile
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