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PostSubject: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:52 pm



How would you classify homosexuals?

For me I think the whole display is behavioral in that there is no evidence of a genetical mutation that gives individuals the propensity for being homosexual.

It's completely psychological and a learned behavior trait.  

The reason that homosexuality is a repetitive portion of human history is because it is a entirely pervasive behavioral meme.

What is interesting is the behavior of male inmates in a prison that given restricted zero access to a population of females they will have sexual relationships with one another either consensually or not.

Maybe homosexuals in society seek each other similarly because of their own lack of ability to procure somebody of the opposite sex which reduces themselves to have relationships with others of the same sex that have similar inabilities.

This has caused me to propose that homosexuality exists because of sexual restriction, limitation, and inability.

Then of course another theory of mine is that through years of sexual abuse by people individuals overtime develop homosexual tendencies which causes them to seek other people of the same sex.  I often enough see this characteristic in females that either through years of being sexually abused when they were younger or recently being constantly womanized by men pushes them to lesbianism.

Usually the sexual abuse comes from somebody of the opposite sex which facilitates them to the find the security of another of the same sex when it concerns relationships.

So we could say that emotional, mental, or psychological weakness is a sort of transforming factor in shaping people towards homosexuality making it completely reactionary.

What are other people's thoughts on this issue?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:20 pm

No, homosexuality is not learned.
Ask Lilith.

Homosexuality is a mutations upon one of the most vulnerable aspects of human nature.
A parasitical one.


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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:25 pm

Σατυρ wrote:
No, homosexuality is not learned.
Ask Lilith.

Homosexuality is a mutations upon one of the most vulnerable aspects of human nature.
A parasitical one.


Quote :
No, homosexuality is not learned.

How is it not?

Quote :
Ask Lilith.

Is she a lesbian? I thought Purple boned her.

Quote :
Homosexuality is a mutations upon one of the most vulnerable aspects of human nature.
A parasitical one.

Could you go more in depth on this?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:37 pm

TheJoker wrote:


Quote :
No, homosexuality is not learned.

How is it not?
Is heterosexuality learned?
Who taught you?

Are you on the brink of questioning your teachings, as an act of free-thinking rebelliousness?

TheJoker wrote:

Is she a lesbian? I thought Purple boned her.
Did he?

Spread it around....it might work.

Ask Lilith.

TheJoker wrote:
Could you go more in depth on this?
Nope.

I live my life on evidence. Evidence I can perceive and deduce reality with.
My brain tells me not to go into depth on this. Not here; not now.

But you can look up "parasite" and see how the definition might apply here.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:39 pm

Σατυρ wrote:
TheJoker wrote:


Quote :
No, homosexuality is not learned.

How is it not?
Is heterosexuality learned?
Who taught you?

Are you on the brink of questioning your teachings, as an act of free-thinking rebelliousness?

TheJoker wrote:

Is she a lesbian? I thought Purple boned her.
Did he?

Spread it around....it might work.

Ask Lilith.

TheJoker wrote:
Could you go more in depth on this?
Nope.

I live my life on evidence. Evidence I can perceive and deduce reality with.
My brain tells me not to go into depth on this. Not here; not now.

But you can look up "parasite" and see how the definition might apply here.


Quote :
Is heterosexuality learned?
Who taught you?

I'll just repeat what I said in the other thread.

The argument can be made that heterosexuality isn't a learned behavior because of the natural design of sexual intercourse between men and women when it concerns the physical organs involved.

Homosexuality is merely a behavioral deviation from that.

Homosexuality mimics heterosexuality but lacks everything mentally and physically designed or imposed by nature that heterosexuality has not to mention orchestrates.

Quote :
Are you on the brink of questioning your teachings, as an act of free-thinking rebelliousness?

Funny.

Quote :
Did he?

Spread it around....it might work.

Your right, the rumor could of been a elaborate defense mechanism.

Quote :
Ask Lilith.

Hey Lilith!



Quote :
Nope. I live my life on evidence. Evidence I can perceive and deduce reality with.
My brain tells me not to go into depth on this. Not here; not now.

But you can look up "parasite" and see how the definition might apply here.

Are you afraid to have a opinion on a subject?

I would like your take on the parasitical aspect of homosexuality in how it preys on people.

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:05 pm


TheJoker wrote:
Are you afraid to have a opinion on a subject?

Yes...I am known for being afraid.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:06 pm

Σατυρ wrote:

TheJoker wrote:
Are you afraid to have a opinion on a subject?

Yes...I am known for being afraid.

Why?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:21 pm

Σατυρ wrote:
No, homosexuality is not learned.
Ask Lilith.
How would I know?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Lilith wrote:
Σατυρ wrote:
No, homosexuality is not learned.
Ask Lilith.
How would I know?

He thinks your a lesbian I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:29 pm

TheJoker wrote:
Lilith wrote:
Σατυρ wrote:
No, homosexuality is not learned.
Ask Lilith.
How would I know?

He thinks your a lesbian I think.
Oh right.

But why would there necessarily be a reason for homosexuality?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:32 pm

Lilith wrote:
TheJoker wrote:
Lilith wrote:
Σατυρ wrote:
No, homosexuality is not learned.
Ask Lilith.
How would I know?

He thinks your a lesbian I think.
Oh right.

But why would there necessarily be a reason for homosexuality?

I'm not saying there needs to be a reason or that there is one for homosexuality.

I'm just saying it's a behavioral reaction or deviation.

When it concerns deviation I mean that from heterosexuality.


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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:32 pm

LOL

My 12 year old brother comes up to the screen and goes Ew! Do they really do that?

What?

That.

What?

Dissect them. Do they really dissect homosexuals like that?

....LOL

Then he goes...

Is there something wrong with their balls or something?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:34 pm

Poison IV wrote:
LOL

My 12 year old brother comes up to the screen and goes Ew! Do they really do that?

What?

That.

What?

Dissect them. Do they really dissect homosexuals like that?

....LOL

Then he goes...

Is there something wrong with their balls or something?

If we were to dissect a fag we would only find miniature lady gaga statues inside them that play her music powered by small batteries.

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:01 pm

TheJoker wrote:
Σατυρ wrote:

TheJoker wrote:
Are you afraid to have a opinion on a subject?

Yes...I am known for being afraid.

Why?
Ummmm, because I'm a coward who fears speaking his mind?
Just a guess.

For the record, I don't think Lilith is a lesbian at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:26 pm

TheJoker wrote:


How would you classify homosexuals?

For me I think the whole display is behavioral in that there is no evidence of a genetical mutation that gives individuals the propensity for being homosexual.

It's completely psychological and a learned behavior trait.

The reason that homosexuality is a repetitive portion of human history is because it is a entirely pervasive behavioral meme.

What is interesting is the behavior of male inmates in a prison that given restricted zero access to a population of females they will have sexual relationships with one another either consensually or not.

Maybe homosexuals in society seek each other similarly because of their own lack of ability to procure somebody of the opposite sex which reduces themselves to have relationships with others of the same sex that have similar inabilities.

This has caused me to propose that homosexuality exists because of sexual restriction, limitation, and inability.

Then of course another theory of mine is that through years of sexual abuse by people individuals overtime develop homosexual tendencies which causes them to seek other people of the same sex. I often enough see this characteristic in females that either through years of being sexually abused when they were younger or recently being constantly womanized by men pushes them to lesbianism.

Usually the sexual abuse comes from somebody of the opposite sex which facilitates them to the find the security of another of the same sex when it concerns relationships.

So we could say that emotional, mental, or psychological weakness is a sort of transforming factor in shaping people towards homosexuality making it completely reactionary.

What are other people's thoughts on this issue?

TheJoker wrote:
What is interesting is the behavior of male inmates in a prison that given restricted zero access to a population of females they will have sexual relationships with one another either consensually or not.

You’re talking about the difference between homosexuality and prison sex.

Generally, when homophobes start talking about gays, I generally want to ask them a hypothetical question:

Given the fact that most men do take things into their own hand,

If you were trapped on a desert island and knew you would be there for a long time, and there was no one around to see you, and were physically capable, wouldn’t you at least be tempted to give yourself a blowjob. Now most men would react violently to this. But a blow job is a blow job? If you were giving it to yourself, it wouldn’t be that different than masturbation.

And that’s the difference between us heterosexuals and gay guys. It’s not the act of getting your nut that differentiates us. We all want to do that. It’s the tender things that offend us. The thought of caressing another guy like we would a woman.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:57 pm

Throughout the animal kingdom, there are plenty of examples of males mounting other males.

In fact, there is a variety of frog that has a certain call to tell the other that he is mounting the wrong one.....

But there is a big difference between being gay




(and just being horney.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:59 am

On these boards, I've seen things man:


gay guys that were like katty little bitches



guys that couldn't be explained by anything but biology


(and what's up with KD Lang and that beard?
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:44 am

If we are to look at the procreative instinct (lust) then the first and primary reason for it having evolved is as a fascilitator for reproduction. In the same manner that hunger is a fascilitator of nutrition or tiredness of rest.
The desire to reproduce was a successful adaptation among our ancestors, thus it was passed on as a useful trait.

If it can be thought of as a desire with loose biological foundations that cause the mind to find certain acitivities appealing, then perhaps the psychology of the individual will influence the specifics of these particular activities.

Consider sexual intercourse and anal intercourse. In both instances there is penetration and a rhythmic thrusting motion. This is basically what sex is. 1 party is penetrated the other penetrates. It is generally seen as a physically intimate and pleasurable experience, regardless of the details.

Now if we consider the sexual roles as that of masculine (dominant) and feminine (submissive) in this context it can be seen how the ideal of masculinity can be subverted through the adoption of a feminine role or of the imposition of a feminine role on another male, depending upon whether one is giving or receiving.

It is the flexibility of the human mind that applies itself to a matter of biological inclination as manifested through an individuals acquired experience that results in the wildly varying range of human fetishes.

If one can understand the motivations as to why an individual can find sex with children, corpses, animals, or the same gender appealing; or why leather, whips, chains, or what have you excite such a strong emotion than perhaps one can then make a value judgement on that behaviour.....

None of this extraneous shit is necessary for reproduction, yet for some it is an essential aspect of their sexuality. Acquired psychological traits.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:54 am

Σατυρ wrote:
For the record, I don't think Lilith is a lesbian at all.
I'm so relieved at that.

Although I've had sexual encounters with women I found them unsatisfactory.

I do prefer men.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:30 am

apaosha wrote:


If one can understand the motivations as to why an individual can find sex with children, corpses, animals, or the same gender appealing; or why leather, whips, chains, or what have you excite such a strong emotion than perhaps one can then make a value judgement on that behaviour.....

Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:31 am

Lilith wrote:
Σατυρ wrote:
For the record, I don't think Lilith is a lesbian at all.
I'm so relieved at that.

Although I've had sexual encounters with women I found them unsatisfactory.

I do prefer men.

Lulz.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:40 pm

What do members here think of this statement? I haven't read Trivers.
This would then seem to take it in the direction of a selective trait and justify it thus...

"4.Homosexuality in social animals is a form of sibling-altruism: that is, your homosexuality is a way of helping your brothers and sisters to raise more children.
This very-believable proposition is maintained by Robert Trivers in his book Social Evolution, (1985), pp. 198-9."
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:58 am

"In general, the man who is identified with the archetype of the puer aeternus remains too long in adolescent psychology; that is, all those characteristics that are normal in a youth of seventeen or eighteen are continued into later life, coupled in most cases with too great a dependence on the mother. The two typical disturbances of a man who has an outstanding mother complex are, as Jung points out, homosexuality and Don Juanism. In the case of the former, the heterosexual libido is still tied up with the mother, who is really the only beloved object, with the result that sex cannot be experienced with another woman. That would make her a rival of the mother, and therefore sexual needs are satisfied only with a member of the same sex. Generally such men lack masculinity and seek that in the partner.

In Don Juanism there is another typical form of this same disturbance. In this case, the image of the mother—the image of the perfect woman who will give everything to a man and who is without any shortcomings—is sought in every woman. He is looking for a mother goddess, so that each time he is fascinated by a woman he has later to discover that she is an ordinary human being. Once he has been intimate with her the whole fascination vanishes and he turns away disappointed, only to project the image anew onto one woman after another. He eternally longs for the maternal woman who will enfold him in her arms and satisfy his every need. This is often accompanied by the romantic attitude of the adolescent." [Marie-Louise von Franz, The problem of the Puer Aeteurnus]

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:52 pm

http://www.ebc.uu.se/digitalAssets/141/141808_rice-et-al-2012-qrb.pdf

Erik Holland's Nature of Homosexuality

From reading the above, I'd say there's good reason to think of homosexuality as an epigenetically-derived developmental disorder.

The first link is rather technical and I don't fully understand it, but the basic thrust of it is that a fact needs to be explained: homosexuality is (highly) heritable, but identical twins (if one is gay) aren't both necessarily gay. So they propose that it's something epigenetic; I understand "epigenetics" as a kind of "trigger" that influences the action of genes. They propose that there's something in the combination of these "triggers" of the procreating couples' DNA that gives rise to a "gonad-trait discordance", i.e. it fucks up the fetus's hormonal development (a developmental disorder).

If I remember correctly, Holland explicitly criticizes Trivers' hypothesis simply by observing the behavior of "gay uncles" and homosexual people in general. Are they really around raising kids, helping to raise kids? Hollands book has a lot of statistics to contradict the idea: gays in general, and fags especially, are totally narcissistic, obsessed with sex, have much higher rates of mental/personality disorders, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:03 pm

i'll have to read, thanks for the link.


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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:10 pm

I agree with the epigenetics explanation.

It is made worse due to sheltering and the protection of mutations from the natural ways of culling them out of a genetic pool.

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:18 pm

Quote :
Maybe homosexuals in society seek each other similarly because of their own lack of ability to procure somebody of the opposite sex which reduces themselves to have relationships with others of the same sex that have similar inabilities.

"But the reference to "intermediate sexual forms," to an incomplete process of the development of sex or to a regression, does not explain all the varieties of homosexuality. In fact, there have been male homosexuals who have not been effeminate or "intermediate forms"but even men of war, individuals decidedly manly in their appearance and behavior, powerful men who have had or could have had the most beautiful women at their disposal. Such homosexuality is hard to explain, and we have the right here to speak of deviation and perversion, or "vice" linked, perhaps, to a fashion. Indeed, it is hard to understand what can drive a man who is truly a man sexually toward an individual of the same sex. If appropriate material for the realization of the zenith of the orgasm of heterosexual love is almost nonexistent, this is even more the case in the embraces of homosexual love. However, there is reason to suppose that it is merely a matter of "mutual masturbation" and that the conditioned reflexes are exploited for "pleasure" since not only the metaphysical but also the physical premises for a whole and destructive union are lacking."-Julius Evola

Homosexuality in today's world is more of a political agenda. To be an "open" homosexual is to be another "proud" member of the community of victims( which include women and minorities). To open yourself up to attack by coming out when the great majority connect with the victim is not even very courageous.

Why do the very good looking, "manly" men who could have any woman, decide to only be with men? I believe it's dissatisfaction with women on an physically aesthetic level. These men may or may not find women spiritually inspiring(as muses). In defense of these types of men, the majority of women don't take care of their bodies let alone their minds. Having a "hot" girlfriend is a time consuming drain UNLESS you're goal is children. The problem with these types of men, is that they forgo having children because they are too concerned with aesthetics. They then project this choice of not having having children as some value that should be respected. The choice(value) is then intertwined with homosexuality itself(another "choice"). You could say aesthetics almost becomes a fetish.

Yet the straight very good looking man that doesn't have children who throws himself again and again into the chaotic world of women is unwilling to form himself and create order for himself, or a future generation.

The public discussion around sexuality always seems to see sexuality itself as its own end... "You're straight? You're gay? That's ok, it's your "choice." Now continue on fucking anything you want and forget about everything else" Pleasure is the end. The end of conflict.
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:25 pm

Lyssa wrote:
In Don Juanism there is another typical form of this same disturbance.

If Don Juanism is rooted in genetics as well, at least partly then that would explain the rise in homosexuality. (Some would say it's because in former times homosexuals stayed in the closet, which is probably a valid point, still, I think there is a rise in numbers beyond that increased openess about it.)

Satyr wrote:
It is made worse due to sheltering and the protection of mutations from the natural ways of culling them out of a genetic pool.

First I wasn't sure how this would work but then I realized - The Don Juan type is probably more successful with the ladies in an environment with less perceived danger and uncertainty - increasing the amount of offspring which in part become Don Juans and in part become homosexuals (according to Lyssa's quote on the Puer Aeteurnus)
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:28 pm

Don Juans (playas) are continuations of male procreative strategies: seed many so that a few may survive.
It's quantity over quality.
More refined male minds, have a more closer connection to their feminine dispositions.
They opt for quality, particularly in environments where being a "playa" comes at a high cost.

Here I would like to mention something I've been thinking about concerning metrosexualty.
The man of discriminating tastes can be mistaken for a metro-sexual, just as refinement can be mistaken for snobbishness.

A man of taste may be aware of subtleties but is not dependent on their presence.
He may prefer a certain qualitative standard but will not complain when it is not available.
A male makes do, and he does not insult the one who offers.
He may wish for a higher quality, but will not turn away lower quality when it offers itself to him - sign of nobility: the generosity of spirit that finds some value in every experience.

This stands in contrast to the pretentious metro-sexual, whose refinement is imitated and so it acquires exaggeration as a mode of accentuating its presence in so much vulgarity; hyperbole to hide its non-existence. He imitates, adopts and plays a part he thinks places him within a more elite group.
The rich are prone to take on this tactic to play the part of culture, while not being able to fully appreciate it.
They purchase art or rare books as adornments, accessories.
They go to concertos and fund museums because that`s what is expected of them.
They learn foreign languages not to exchange ideas but to be cosmopolitan.
Finery, for them, is another draping.
They dine on fine cuisine, and drink the best wine, though they are incapable of appreciating the artistry in their making, nor the subtleties participating in their combinations.
They are detached, not because they stand above but because they are unable to connect, to sense, to be sensitive.
They will not once settle for the lesser, to the point of becoming demanding, garish, insulting, for this may shatter the image they wish to cultivate.
Their taste is acquired, not an innate quality.

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:13 pm

Satyr wrote:
A man of taste may be aware of subtleties but is not dependent on their presence.

Actions do speak louder than words - Some time ago I was confronted with the argument that it's not all about actions. At the time my knee jerk reaction was to assume an attempt at rationalizing bad behavior but a part of me did see something beyond that.

And now I am reminded of what it is. It's also about the individual who is judging the actions of others. How good is he at perceiving the subtleties and how well can he estimate that other persons state of mind, his motivations,....

In case of the Don Juan type (I have read, somewhere, some time ago) it's more about the conquest to receive adoration. Validation from the outside, it becomes the central theme, hunger for that person.

Mirror, mirror on the wall,
Who's the fairest one of all?

fairest, most successful, rich,...

Something similar could be the case with many metro-sexuals and homosexuals.


Quote :
They will not once settle for the lesser, to the point of becoming demanding,garish, insulting, for this may shatter the image they wish to cultivate.

"True wealth doesn't show" someone once said, well, not in an exaggerated way.


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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:45 pm

Quote :
"The puer aeternus very often has this mature, detached attitude toward life, which is normal for old people but which he acquires prematurely—the idea that life is not everything, that the other side is valid too, that life is only part of the whole of existence. Here the death-temptation prevents the little prince from going right into the earth. Before he has even touched it the snake comes in and says, "If you don't like it, you know a way out." So before he has gone
down to earth, he has already had the offer of death. I have met many people with a similar difficult constellation who do that: they live only "on condition," which means that secretly they constantly flirt with the idea of suicide.

At every step of their lives they think they will try something or other and that if it does not work they will kill themselves. The puer aeternus always keeps his revolver in his pocket and constantly plays with the idea of getting out of life if things get too hard.
The disadvantage of this is that he is never quite committed to the situation as a whole human being; there is a constant Jesuitical mental reservation: "I will go into this, but I reserve my right as a human being to kill myself if I can't stand it any more. I shall not go through the whole experience to the bitter end if it becomes too insufferable, for if it does I shall walk out of it." And therefore the person does not become whole. If one cuts off the wholeness of the experience, one cuts oneself into bits and remains split because transformation can only take place if one gives oneself completely to the situation.

If you ask yourself whether you are doing something because you have to or because you want to, you will never find out. You can always say that you feel as though you wanted
it, but perhaps it is only an unconscious complex which makes you feel like that. So how can you ever say which it is? It is a subjective feeling, but it is tremendously important for the ego to feel free to a certain extent. It is a feeling problem about the mood in which one finds oneself. If you cannot believe in a certain amount of free will and therefore free initiative of the ego, you are completely lamed because then you have to go into all your motives.

You can go into the past and look into the unconscious more and more deeply, but you will never get out of it. And that is the spider's trick of the mother complex. That is how she tries to catch the hero. She wants him to sit and ask himself whether he really wanted it or not: whether it is really a question of opposing his father?—if he does this, is he really just falling for his father's suggestion, or is he simply showing off? You can be sure that he will sit there
forever and the witch will have him in her pocket. That is the great mother-complex trick.

Some pueri aeterni escape from the mother by means of actual airplanes; they fly away from mother-earth and from reality. Many others do the same thing in "thought airplanes"—going off into the air with some kind of philosophical theory or intellectual system. I have not given much thought to it, but it has struck me that especially among the Latins the mother complex is combined with a strange kind of strong but sterile intellectualism, a tendency to discuss heaven and earth and God-knows-what in a kind of sharp intellectual way and with complete uncreativeness. It is probably a last attempt on the part of the men to save their masculinity.

That simply means that certain young men who are overpowered by their mothers escape into the realm of the intellect because there the mother, especially if she is the earth type and a stupid animus kind of woman, is not up to it. They can slip out from under her skirts into
the realm of the intellect, where she cannot follow. Therefore, since it is an initial attempt to escape the mother's power and the animus pressure by getting into the realm of books and philosophical discussion, which they can think mother does not understand, it is not altogether destructive. Such a man has then a little world of his own—he discusses things with other men and can have the agreeable feeling that it is something which women do not understand. In this
way he gets away from the feminine, but he loses and leaves his earthly masculinity in the mother's grip. He saves his mental masculinity but sacrifices his phallus—his earthly masculinity and his creativity. The vitality of action, that masculinity which molds the clay, which seizes and molds reality, he leaves behind, for that is too difficult; he escapes into the realm of philosophy.

Such people prefer philosophy, pedagogy, metaphysics and theology, and it is a completely unvital bloodless business. There is no real question behind such philosophy. Such people have no genuine questions. For them it is a kind of play with words and concepts and is entirely
lacking in any convincing quality. One could not convince a butterfly with such "philosophical" stuff. Nobody would listen to it. The pseudo-philosophical intellectualism is ambiguous because, as I said before, it is a way by which to make a partial escape from the dominant grip of the mother figure, but is done only with the intellect, and only the intellect is saved. That is really what one sees in the tragedy of the Oedipus myth, where Oedipus commits the mistake of entering into the question instead of saying to the Sphinx that she has no right to put such questions and that he will knock her down if she asks such a thing again. Instead, he gives a very good intellectual answer. The play continues very cleverly with the sphinx apparently committing suicide. Oedipus pats himself on the back and steps right into the middle of his mother complex, into destruction and tragedy, just because he complimented himself on having got out of that difficulty by answering the question!

To my mind, the way Freudian psychology has taken this myth and generalized it is quite wrong, for the Oedipus myth cannot be understood without the background of Greek civilization and what happened to it as a whole. If you think of Socrates and the Platonists, you see that they discovered the realm of philosophy and pure mind in its masculine mental operations. But when you know what happened to Plato when he tried to put his ideas into reality, then you see that they had escaped reality and had not found a philosophy with which they could form it. It was a complete failure. They discovered pure philosophy but not the philosophy which can be put to the test in reality. In the same way they were the founders of basic physical and chemical concepts, but the Egyptians and the Romans had to change these concepts later into
experimental science, for the Greeks could not put their ideas to the test in chemical experiments. Their science remained purely speculative, even in its most beautiful forms, and with it came the endless split of the little Greek towns and the tragic decay of Greek civilization. As soon as they were up against a nation with masculine and military self-discipline—the Romans—the Greeks were at a loss.

Therefore, although they were the great philosophical fertilizers of the Mediterranean world, they themselves could not follow up their own attempts in a creative way because they never understood the riddle of the Sphinx. They thought that the intellectual answer was the solution—an illusion for which they paid. The Oedipus myth is actually the myth of this stage of cultural development. At the same time it is the myth of all those young men who have this same
problem. That is why it is also a general myth.

The puer aeternus shadow often does the same thing if no mother or analyst plays that role; every time he wants to go into action he will argue that he should not act until he has thought it over very carefully. One could call it neurotic philosophizing, philosophy at the wrong moment just when action is needed. That is the trick behind the myth of the riddle of the Sphinx and the devilish question of the Baba Yaga in the fairy tale. It is the mother-anima who says, "Oh, yes, you may go, but I must just ask a few questions!" And whether he answers the questions or not, he is tortured.

After the puer loses the ecstatic, romantic élan of youth, there is danger of an enantiodromia into a completely cynical attitude toward women, life, work in general, and money. Many men suddenly fall into an attitude of disappointed cynicism. They lose all their ideals and
romantic impulses and also, naturally, their creativeness, writing it all off as the fantasies of youth. They then become petty, earth-bound, small-minded people who just want to have a family, money and a career. Everything else is regarded as romantic nonsense—what one
wanted and did when one was young, which now must be written off. It is as though Icarus had fallen into the mud and life had stopped.

This is due to a weak consciousness, which cannot conceive of the possibility of enduring the difficulties of reality and not sacrificing one's ideals but instead testing them on the touchstone
of reality. Such men take the easy way and say that ideals merely complicate life and must therefore be written off. This is a great danger." [von. Franz, Puer Aeternus]


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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:48 pm

Anfang wrote:
Satyr wrote:
A man of taste may be aware of subtleties but is not dependent on their presence.

Actions do speak louder than words - Some time ago I was confronted with the argument that it's not all about actions. At the time my knee jerk reaction was to assume an attempt at rationalizing bad behavior but a part of me did see something beyond that.

And now I am reminded of what it is. It's also about the individual who is judging the actions of others. How good is he at perceiving the subtleties and how well can he estimate that other persons state of mind, his motivations,....

In case of the Don Juan type (I have read, somewhere, some time ago) it's more about the conquest to receive adoration. Valuation from the outside, it becomes the central theme, hunger for that person.

Mirror, mirror on the wall,
Who's the fairest one of all?

fairest, most successful, rich,...

Something similar could be the case with many metro-sexuals and homosexuals.


Yes, they don't feel unique enough, to stand up for themselves and need external validation/recognition;

"The inner battle between the feeling of uniqueness and statistical thinking is generally a battle between intellectualism and allowing feeling its own place in life, because feeling evaluates what is important to me, and my own importance is the counterbalance. If you have real feeling you can say certainly that this is an ordinary woman (for if you see her walking along the street she is not very different from any other), but to me she is of the highest value.
That would mean the ego makes up its mind to defend and stand up for its own feeling without denying the other aspect:
"Yes, that may be so from the statistical point of view, but in my life there are certain values, and to me this woman has this value." For that an act of loyalty is required toward one's own feeling. Otherwise one is split off from it by statistical thinking, which is why intellectual people tend toward Communism and such ways of thought. They cut themselves off from the feeling function. The feeling function makes your life and your relationships and deeds feel unique and gives them a definite value.

When the statistical way of thinking gets people, it means they have no feeling, or weak feeling, or that they tend to betray their own feeling. You can say that the man who does not stand for his feelings is weak on the eros side, for he cannot take his own feelings and stand by them: "That is how I intend to live, for that is the way I feel."
Admittedly, that is more difficult for a man than for a woman, which is expressed when we say that the man is weak on the eros side.
For example, if you say to a mother that her children are not unique, that there are such brats all over the place, she will reply that to her they are unique, for they are her children. A woman is more likely to have a personal attitude.
The man has to think impersonally and objectively and, if he is a modern type, also statistically, and then it turns like a poison against him." [von. Franz, Puer Aeternus]

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:53 pm

perpetualburn wrote:

Why do the very good looking, "manly" men who could have any woman, decide to only be with men? I believe it's dissatisfaction with women on an physically aesthetic level. These men may or may not find women spiritually inspiring(as muses).

That is one view on the ancient Greek 'homosexuality':

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:21 am

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A team of international researchers has completed a study that suggests we will probably never find a ‘gay gene.' Sexual orientation is not about genetics, say the researchers, it's about epigenetics. This is the process where DNA expression is influenced by any number of external factors in the environment. And in the case of homosexuality, the researchers argue, the environment is the womb itself.

The Epigenetic Key

Writing in The Quarterly Review of Biology, researchers William Rice, a professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and Urban Friberg, a professor at Uppsala University in Sweden, believe that homosexuality can be explained by the presence of epi-marks — temporary switches that control how our genes are expressed during gestation and after we're born.

Specifically, the researchers discovered sex-specific epi-marks which, unlike most genetic switches, get passed down from father to daughter or mother to son. Most epi-marks don't normally pass between generations and are essentially "erased." Rice and Friberg say this explains why homosexuality appears to run in families, yet has no real genetic underpinning.

Epigenetic mechanisms can be seen as an added layer of information that clings to our DNA. Epi-marks regulate the expression of genes according to the strength of external cues. Genes are basically the instruction book, while epi-marks direct how those instructions get carried out. For example, they can determine when, where, and how much of a gene gets expressed.

Moreover, epi-marks are usually produced from scratch with each generation — but new evidence is showing that they can sometimes carryover from parent to child. It's this phenomenon that gives the impression of having shared genes with relatives.

Masculinization and Feminization

To reach this conclusion, Rice and Friberg created a biological and mathematical model that charted the role of epigenetics in homosexuality. They did so by applying evolutionary theory to recent advances in the molecular regulation of gene expression and androgen-dependent sexual development.


This data was integrated with recent findings from the epigenetic control of gene expression, especially in embryonic stem cells. This allowed the researchers to develop and empirically support a mathematical model of epigenetic-based canalization of sexual development, or the tendency of heredity to restrict the development of some characteristics to just one or a few traits. Their model successfully predicted the evolution of homosexuality in both sexes when canalizing epi-marks carry over across generations with nonzero probability.

In their study, the team writes that they "tracked changes in chromatin structure that influence the transcription rate of genes (coding and noncoding, such as miRNAs), including nucleosome repositioning, DNA methylation, and/or modification of histone tails, but not including changes in DNA sequence."

The resulting model predicted that homosexuality can be produced by transgenerational epigenetic inheritance.

Normally, sex-specific marks that are triggered during early fetal development work to protect boys and girls in the womb from undergoing too much natural variation in testosterone, which should normally happen later in a pregnancy. Epigenetic processes prevent female fetuses from becoming masculinized when testosterone exposure gets too high, and vice versa for males.

Moreover, epi-marks also protect different sex-specific traits from swinging in the opposite direction; some affect the genitals, and others may affect sexual orientation. These epi-marks can be transmitted across generations from fathers to daughters, or mothers to sons.

Essentially, Rice and Friberg believe they have discovered the presence of "sexually antagonistic" epi-marks — which sometimes carry over to the next generation and cause homosexuality in opposite-sex offspring.

And importantly — in order to satisfy the rules of Darwinian selection — the researchers noted through their mathematical modeling that these epigenetic characteristics can easily proliferate in the population because they increase the fitness of the parent; these epi-marks normally protect parents from natural variation in sex hormone levels during fetal development. They only rarely reduce the fitness of offspring.

The entire study is online at The Quarterly Review of Biology: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:17 am

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:25 pm

Lyssa wrote:
perpetualburn wrote:

Why do the very good looking, "manly" men who could have any woman, decide to only be with men?  I believe it's dissatisfaction with women on an physically aesthetic level.  These men may or may not find women spiritually inspiring(as muses).
That is one view on the ancient Greek 'homosexuality':

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Also: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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(Haven't read that.)

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:19 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:29 pm

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Review:

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"James O'Meara is an essayist and social critic from the Mid-West and in this book he argues that the political right always loses because they have ignored the creative impulse and civilization sustaining drives of homosexual men. Now, before this idea gets further explored the following needs to be mentioned. The "right" that James O'Meara is supporting is not the "right" of the tax-cuts for the rich, Corporate Welfare supporting Republican Party or Evangelical Protestant groups such as Focus on the Family. His "right" is more akin to traditional Indo-European ideas, beauty, nobility, high traditionalist art such as the Renaissance painters.

Because the right has lost the homosexuals, O'Meara argues that their creative drive has moved on to support the political left, the right thus has taken the "Negro" as their lodestar for behavior. O'Meara describes this "Negro" ideal as something like Sean Hannity's dubious intellectual rants and general tuggishness and Glen Beck's girlish crush on Martin Luther King. This "Negro" ideal turns out to turn off large segments of society.

Key to "the right" getting society back on track is for the right to embrace the Männerbund. This is a group of single men who live outside the norms of family society and carry out great feats. The Männerbund will contain men who are drawn to homosexuality and this should be embraced. A good example of a Männerbund is the Spartans. Other somewhat homosexual types who have advanced society using a Männerbund type of organization is Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the Boy Scouts.

O'Meara advances repeats his ideas several times and in different ways through a series of chapter-length essays in this book. Unfortunately, he refers to blog postings and bloggists too often. Bloggists are in fact great idea makers, but they are akin to Enlightenment coffee shop broadsides. For his ideas to make a longer impact, O'Meara should have explained the blog post and blogger in terms that can be understood by other generations rather than contemporary internet readers. O'Meara also ignores the fundamental fact that gay men don't breed and therefore are unable advance civilization through the propagation of the people that make the civilization. In other words, gays aren't supporting dad. To make matters worse, O'Meara doesn't take gays to task for aligning themselves with the "Negro," the Third World Immigrant, or those who are fundamentally hostile to Western Civilization.

Despite these flaws, this book is an eye-opening thesis that takes a critical look at society and sexuality."
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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:58 pm

Quote :
Because the right has lost the homosexuals, O'Meara argues that their creative drive has moved on to support the political left, the right thus has taken the "Negro" as their lodestar for behavior.
Either of these types are not what the "right" should be striving towards, but rather the white heterosexual male, who finds in these two a degeneration of his own type on one hand and a more primal, sub-human throw-back in the other.
The advancement of either as the face of the "right" would turn more away then it would attract.

A male, the european one in particular, is defined by his need to compete for access to females. All his creativity, his restlessness, his lusts originate from this basic need. His woman is his muse. His woman is the impetus and the cause for every feat he achieves and every conquest he makes. His woman is the only way in which a man can recreate himself, the ultimate declaration of self-love and Yes to life, the eternal recurrence.

A homosexual is a failed attempt at a man. A negro is not even an attempt at one.

Quote :
Key to "the right" getting society back on track is for the right to embrace the Männerbund. This is a group of single men who live outside the norms of family society and carry out great feats. The Männerbund will contain men who are drawn to homosexuality and this should be embraced.
It sounds like a way to integrate and make use of un-marriageable unfit males which a society would normally have no use for, rather than casting them out. Similar to betas in a wolf pack.

I don't see how homosexuals in particular are advantageous to the right, though. Their inclination towards feminization, promiscuity, hedonism, vanity, lack of aggression and materialism suits the left more. They are also useful as a tool in dismantling traditionalist notions of the family and of marriage as being a man and woman's bond for the sake of procreation.
Plus, in the socialist/capitalist paradigm, particulars like race, sexuality, gender are not relevant as long as a populace is large and produces/consumes at a high enough rate and at a low enough wage. So in effect advertising for the unfit to invest in this system simply appeals to a lower common denominator in the hope of expanding the human herd that is being developed to as broad a base as possible.

If the right is to be seen as advocating social darwinism, eugenics and such as opposed to tolerant inclusiveness in the name of breeding a docile, domesticated future humanity of sheeple like in Huxley's vision, then the elimination of such unfitness should be put forward as an eventual if not immediate goal. As before; Shockley for example advised that negroes below a certain IQ level ought to be sterilized for the sake of the future population.
If the left appeals to universality then it is natural that it's opposition should appeal to particularity. If egalitarianism, then elitism. If stupidity, then intelligence. If weakness, strength. If universal love, then particularized hate.

The right should not be democratic. It should not seek to appeal to as many as possible in order to gain popular support. The right's dominance should be an imposed dominance, power, or will to power, of the elite upon the common rabble.
The other way is the other side's way. The left is ruled by a committee, the right a king.

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PostSubject: Re: Dissecting the homosexual and the pedophile Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:20 am

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Summary: Recent studies show homosexuals have a substantially greater risk of suffering from a psychiatric problems than do heterosexuals. We see higher rates of suicide, depression, bulimia, antisocial personality disorder, and substance abuse. This paper highlights some new and significant considerations that reflect on the question of those mental illnesses and on their possible sources.

Abused "More Likely to Be Gay"
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Bug Chasing: Why Some Men Want to Become HIV Positive
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Drug Use "Seven Times Higher" Among Homosexuals
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Folsom Street Fair 2007
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HIV Among Homosexual and Bisexual Men
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Homosexual Men Have Fifty Times Higher Rate of AIDS
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Homosexuality: The Mental Illness That Went Away
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Child Molestation and Homosexuality
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