Know Thyself

Nothing in Excess
 
HomePortalFAQMemberlistSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Psychology...Psychiatry?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry? Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:19 pm

Abstract wrote:
TheJoker wrote:


Quote :
Abstract: Exactly... Yet we have the capacity to change ourselves. No matter what we choose it was determined, but that gives no reason to do one thing over another. And yet there seems reason to avoid relying on drugs, as they cause more problems often, they are but a trade, and one needs them and must pay for them and are thus more reliant on the "system".

Capacity of what?
Change in what way or form?
"Yet we have the capacity to change ourselves" == "Yet it is possible to change." For anything in any form. there is no such thing as true stagnation. no such thing as "absolute zero". If one's thinks change is not possible, that is an excuse to remain weak. Some might like others to think that way.

TheJoker wrote:

Choice does not proceed necessity. Choice is directed by necessity.
No, that is the traditional mode of thought, but if i don't care about dying then it is my choice, and nothing is necessary. Things only become necessary when there is something one wants, a desire. Thus it is desire theat necessitates things. If one desires not to be pained in a way then they must choose to the path that reduces that pain.

TheJoker wrote:

Quote :
No matter what we choose it was determined, but that gives no reason to do one thing over another.

What does reasoning have to do with anything?

Reason is a slave to desire, emotion, egoism, and pleasure.
Desire and emotion and egoism and pleasure are all slaves to one's reasoning. people who think otherwise are enslaved by their reasoning to be then held to those strictures. one can choose what the desire if they open their mind. For a time they can be of a state of mind that is directed by the exterior , like a child directed by the parents, while even then they could surpass, yet one can say not knowing is a determined restriction of sorts. But then the mind can become eventually free of that reliance. So in a sense both occur for a time. but continuing to think such is always the case or necessary only holds one back.

TheJoker wrote:

Quote :
And yet there seems reason to avoid relying on drugs, as they cause more problems often, they are but a trade, and one needs them and must pay for them and are thus more reliant on the "system".

It all has to do with control.
To say "all" is typically an over generalization... often "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". People try to help but end up only harming. If that is the case it would be crucial to see that mentality of those feeding the system so as to then be able to deal with them. Yet i think for the most part there are people that are aware of it all...yet one does not have to deal with them, most often one only needs to deal with the pawns, at least first.

[/quote]

Quote :
"Yet we have the capacity to change ourselves" == "Yet it is possible to change." For anything in any form. there is no such thing as true stagnation. no such thing as "absolute zero". If one's thinks change is not possible, that is an excuse to remain weak. Some might like others to think that way.

So stagnation doesn't exist? Entropy disagrees with you.

There are some things which are unchanging that are determined constants or eternals that are repetitive.

If you can't understand this with that naive optimism of everything can change than you are lost.

No, not everything can change.

There isn't a transcendental antidote to everything.

Quote :
No, that is the traditional mode of thought, but if i don't care about dying then it is my choice, and nothing is necessary.

We are all determined by our expiriences and the environmental world around us.

You caring about not dying was determined upon you in your mental state of past expiriences which necessitates that sentiment that you were presently feeling.

In the end necessity and determination rules this existence to which the mind tricks itself that it has free will or choice. Some may even say it is a necessity or determined trick of the mind even if it's just purely a delicious illusion.


Quote :

Things only become necessary when there is something one wants, a desire.

The want to relinguish life until you wither away and die is nonetheless still a desire.


Quote :
Thus it is desire theat necessitates things. If one desires not to be pained in a way then they must choose to the path that reduces that pain.

Desire is determined by expirience and also nature.

Expirience and nature of the human mind feeds into each other.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry? Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:49 pm

TheJoker wrote:


Quote :
"Yet we have the capacity to change ourselves" == "Yet it is possible to change." For anything in any form. there is no such thing as true stagnation. no such thing as "absolute zero". If one's thinks change is not possible, that is an excuse to remain weak. Some might like others to think that way.

So stagnation doesn't exist? Entropy disagrees with you.

There are some things which are unchanging that are determined constants or eternals that are repetitive.

If you can't understand this with that naive optimism of everything can change than you are lost.

No, not everything can change.

There isn't a transcendental antidote to everything.
How does entropy disagree with that? Entropy means things must always be transferring 'from a higher state into a lower state'. Thus as one thing dies another thing grows. there is continual change things do not stagnate. Even if one was to presume that is always a matter of loss and degradation that is still a form of continual change.

How can one say something is a determined constant if they have not been around forever to witness it never stopping? It is matter of induction that we have arrived at such, it remains possible that anything can change... But indeed i would think that probably there are many constant. Yet stagnation is not something that exists. Our week human minds may look at something and think it is not changing, but it is indeed still changing. And science itself directly says there is no "absolute zero" which translates to no stagnation. As heat or temperature is measure of the vibration of the particles making up the system considered.

TheJoker wrote:

Quote :
No, that is the traditional mode of thought, but if i don't care about dying then it is my choice, and nothing is necessary.

We are all determined by our expiriences and the environmental world around us.

You caring about not dying was determined upon you in your mental state of past expiriences which necessitates that sentiment that you were presently feeling.

In the end necessity and determination rules this existence to which the mind tricks itself that it has free will or choice. Some may even say it is a necessity or determined trick of the mind even if it's just purely a delicious illusion.
But then if there are an infinite amount of causes in the past what determined anything?


TheJoker wrote:

Quote :

Things only become necessary when there is something one wants, a desire.

The want to relinguish life until you wither away and die is nonetheless still a desire.
Why would someone want that?


TheJoker wrote:

Quote :
Thus it is desire theat necessitates things. If one desires not to be pained in a way then they must choose to the path that reduces that pain.

Desire is determined by expirience and also nature.

Expirience and nature of the human mind feeds into each other.
And yet as our minds being an aspect of the continuum of nature they yet make decisions and are as much a contributor to "causation" as anything else.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry? Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:52 am

Abstract wrote:
Kovacs wrote:
Abstract wrote:

People who call themselves Open-minded are often closed to the idea that they might not be open-minded about something
As far as I can tell when people say they are openminded they mean that they are willing to spend time with new verbal mental ideas in a discussion. These discussions will never lead to them changing their minds, however. I think people confuse this entertaining - intentional double entendre - ideas for being open.

I don't see that particularly as being a double entendre... If you were referring to what I said.
Just to be clear, I was agreeing with you and extending the point.

Entertaining and idea is to consider it, but I like that the word entertaining means having to do with an activity that is not meant to create changes, but rather is just an in the moment pleasure. And this, it seems to me, is as far as self-proclaimed open minds often seem to go. They play with words and arguments related to the idea. But nothing profound happens and nothing could. They do not really engage.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry? Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:09 pm

Kovacs wrote:

Just to be clear, I was agreeing with you and extending the point.

Entertaining and idea is to consider it, but I like that the word entertaining means having to do with an activity that is not meant to create changes,
so much so that even though i don't believe that is the case I tend to think others mean such when they say entertaining.

Kovacs wrote:
but rather is just an in the moment pleasure. And this, it seems to me, is as far as self-proclaimed open minds often seem to go. They play with words and arguments related to the idea. But nothing profound happens and nothing could. They do not really engage.
They swim but don't dive...maybe
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry? Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:35 pm

Abstract wrote:


Kovacs wrote:
but rather is just an in the moment pleasure. And this, it seems to me, is as far as self-proclaimed open minds often seem to go. They play with words and arguments related to the idea. But nothing profound happens and nothing could. They do not really engage.
They swim but don't dive...maybe
That is a solid metaphor.
1) I think people overestimate how deeply ingrained their ideas are and so they think that if they do not openly dismiss an idea and are willing to discuss it, they actually would have the flexibility to notice things like - they aren't as sure of their own logic as their think, their willingness to notice when their mind is jumping over things, their own emotional investment in their current ideas, how different experiences might affect their opinions.
2) I think there is a kind of political correctness in operation. So on a formal level they make the noises of someone who is open, because of intellectual integrity or liberal values - not in the political sense of 'Liberal' - but this is more part of their self image. IOW saying I simply don't believe it from the get go would feel similar to making a racist remark - or not making one depending on what is politically correct for one and the group one is in.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry? Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:56 pm

Kovacs wrote:
Abstract wrote:


Kovacs wrote:
but rather is just an in the moment pleasure. And this, it seems to me, is as far as self-proclaimed open minds often seem to go. They play with words and arguments related to the idea. But nothing profound happens and nothing could. They do not really engage.
They swim but don't dive...maybe
That is a solid metaphor.
1) I think people overestimate how deeply ingrained their ideas are and so they think that if they do not openly dismiss an idea and are willing to discuss it, they actually would have the flexibility to notice things like - they aren't as sure of their own logic as their think, their willingness to notice when their mind is jumping over things, their own emotional investment in their current ideas, how different experiences might affect their opinions.
2) I think there is a kind of political correctness in operation. So on a formal level they make the noises of someone who is open, because of intellectual integrity or liberal values - not in the political sense of 'Liberal' - but this is more part of their self image. IOW saying I simply don't believe it from the get go would feel similar to making a racist remark - or not making one depending on what is politically correct for one and the group one is in.
Yeah
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Psychology...Psychiatry?

Back to top Go down
 
Psychology...Psychiatry?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
 Similar topics
-
» Buddhism and modern psychology
» Psychology and palm reading
» The Palm Reader who became Professor in Psychology!
» Introduction to Psychology
» DOWN SYNDROME - The language of the hands!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Know Thyself :: AGORA-
Jump to: