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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:38 pm

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

**crackkkk**
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:40 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Mirror, mirror on the wall...

**crackkkk**

Is that it?

Is that all the creativity you got?

Fucking pathetic...

Go back to stripping on the pole my overly privileged beautiful delicious cunt.

That's the only future you have.

I'll promise to feed you some dollar bill singles while they're still worth somthing around the global markets in a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:45 pm

To interject one more time I would like to discuss the female's role in guiding male competition amongst themselves.

We all know sexual competition is the greatest primal overdrive of men's competition amongst themselves.

Let's talk about women's role in all of that.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:52 pm

The more you open your mouth, the more you prove my point...

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:59 pm

Poison IV wrote:
The more you open your mouth, the more you prove my point...


Go suck some donkey dick.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Poison IV wrote:
A man's power & dominance shows his sexual fitness etc...

It's really simple and comes down to reproduction :p

No woman wants a wimp that can't defend her, so yeah...

And men are always working on the great divide between what makes them men and the others .....the women

They need that separation, and identity; to show that they are capable, movers...


Yes, IV, but that changes according to what is most valued in any given situation.

Thom Hartman pointed out a study in which women from America, where Capitalism dominates, and women in other western industrialized nations where they have strong safety nets were shown pictures of different kinds of men: some of them kind of effeminate and intellectual and others that were brawny and thick in the neck. What they found out was that in America, the women tended to prefer men that fit the more primal criteria of a man while the women in countries with strong safety nets tended to prefer the less masculine, more intellectual man.

You might have been right back when we were primates or not far removed from it. But things are changing.

And how many women slober all over themselves over femme rockstar types?

Ultimately, it all comes down to what is considered power.

And right now, that power centers around money, not some outdated notion of what a man is.


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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:45 pm

phoneutria wrote:


I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.
I consider this an aspect of indifference.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:50 pm

TheJoker wrote:
To interject one more time I would like to discuss the female's role in guiding male competition amongst themselves.

We all know sexual competition is the greatest primal overdrive of men's competition amongst themselves.

Let's talk about women's role in all of that.


Actually, Joker, nothing makes a man so attractive to a woman as the thought that another woman might want him.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:53 pm

I've seen it: it's how the players work.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:45 pm

d63tark wrote:


Yes, IV, but that changes according to what is most valued in any given situation.

Thom Hartman pointed out a study in which women from America, where Capitalism dominates, and women in other western industrialized nations where they have strong safety nets were shown pictures of different kinds of men: some of them kind of effeminate and intellectual and others that were brawny and thick in the neck. What they found out was that in America, the women tended to prefer men that fit the more primal criteria of a man while the women in countries with strong safety nets tended to prefer the less masculine, more intellectual man.

You might have been right back when we were primates or not far removed from it. But things are changing.

And how many women slober all over themselves over femme rockstar types?

Ultimately, it all comes down to what is considered power.

And right now, that power centers around money, not some outdated notion of what a man is.

You are terribly ....out there...

Things are not 'changing'....

Feminized, metrosexual males are not and never will be ideal males...they're sold to us in the media....for very specific, propogandizing reasons....

Take 'Old Spice' and the pheromone deception...

Their latest commercial shows a man walking through the door with loads of coins filling the room while an attractive woman sits on his couch and jokes "but don't tell my nose that..."

They are actually associating money with sexual selection, and simultaneously pulling off a great advertising campaign by using the humor element. The targeted audience subconsciously understands that the woman is looking for an ideal mate who has the right scent, but is being deceived by the product and goes for the man's pocket. She's not even after his scent for the purpose of mating, of course....

It says as long as you wear the right things, there is no need to be genetically fit- everyone agrees...

And that is what you call 'changing times'....

Lots and lots of sexual deception, for the purpose of breaking racial identity, and all manner of making 'equality' the only acceptable theme.

Brought to you by people who really do want to destroy your heritage, and any trace of genetic fitness...(also pushed along by more than willing participants)
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:29 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Kovacs wrote:
If I thought about your post while I was having sex it would undermine the sex act, at least as long as I was thinking this thought.

My heartbeat is a repetitive activity.

My post seems to have no point, but it is actually so deep I am only channeling it.

I laughed a little.
It wasn't really directed at you. I actually meant as bitter.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:38 pm

Excellent Poison IV...now consider what deodorant or antiperspirant is.

The male's scent is supposed to give-off the pheromones which projects his genetic fitness.

Masking it, suppressing it, and then replacing it with a cologne and the money to buy it all, this bottled escape from nature and one's own genetic past, is what is sold.
What is being sold is an escape from your own inheritance, as human nature is denied, and all must be born as clean slates to better serve the powers that be.

Money is the system's reward for being a nice, good boy...it is what can help you compensate for inferior genes, The very inferior genes which make you more prone to surrender to system dominance then are compensated for with by the very product of this submission.


See, douche-bag, liberal fucks love to hate eugenics, but here we have eugenics on a massive scale.
If the meme is the continuance of the gene then natural selection gives way to social selection, but societies are mostly the repression, sublimation, and selection of natural processes ergo they are a form of human intervention, just as eugenics are.

But convince a bleeding-heart retard, high on spiritual "awakening" that he is nothing more than a contradiction to his own ideals, just as a christian is a contradiction to the teachings of his God Jesus; convince a retard, spreading "good tidings" about heaven and eternal life that he is a closet nihilist; convince a communist that he nothing more than an extension, or an adaptation, of Jodeo-Chritian slavishness.

You can't.
So, exploit that stupidity.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:48 pm

Satyr wrote:
Excellent Poison IV...now consider what deodorant or antiperspirant is.

The male's scent is supposed to give-off the pheromones which projects his genetic fitness.

Masking it, suppressing it, and then replacing it with a cologne and the money to buy it all, this bottled escape from nature and one's own genetic past, is what is sold.
What is being sold is an escape from your own inheritance, as human nature is denied, and all must be born as clean slates to better serve the powers that be.

Money is the system's reward for being a nice, good boy...it is what can help you compensate for inferior genes, The very inferior genes which make you more prone to surrender to system dominance then are compensated for with by the very product of this submission.


See, douche-bag, liberal fucks love to hate eugenics, but here we have eugenics on a massive scale.
If the meme is the continuance of the gene then natural selection gives way to social selection, but societies are mostly the repression, sublimation, and selection of natural processes ergo they are a form of human intervention, just as eugenics are.

But convince a bleeding-heart retard, high on spiritual "awakening" that he is nothing more than a contradiction to his own ideals, just as a christian is a contradiction to the teachings of his God Jesus; convince a retard, spreading "good tidings" about heaven and eternal life that he is a closet nihilist; convince a communist that he nothing more than an extension, or an adaptation, of Jodeo-Chritian slavishness.

You can't.
So, exploit that stupidity.

Yes for example many liberals and conservatives alike would dislike the idea of choosing what sort of offspring arrise... and yet that can inevitably done simply by requireing that say hobo's not be alound to have children when we begin population control laws... that is the prevention of particular modes of existence from reproducing and thus the elimination of specific genetic tendencies...

deoderant is odd
it is a lie... liwing about one's smell...
and it alters the peoples natural capacity to subconciously select partners by means of faramonal recognition...
not to mention it wastes a ton of resources for no good reason...
a social stigma... or conundrum

it would be simple enough to just get used to the smell... eventually we would be interested by them and even like many more..
that is why sometimes a person likes the way a fart smells (or think it smells interesting, or telling of what was eaten...)...but still says, "eww..."
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:24 am

Abstract wrote:
phoneutria wrote:

But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?


How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Obviously, in the example you gave, cow toeing to the political influence of your order is a sign of the order's power over you. You must play by their rules before you can rise the power ladder and become the rule maker.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:06 am

Poison IV wrote:

Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I have been ignoring you because you are childish and impudent, and because your argument is, as without-music puts it, "somophoric".
Besides, there is plenty of this "us versus them" discussion going on in other threads already, and I find it dull.

As to the rest of your post, YAWN.
Look past your little corner of the world, in your little bubble of time.

These social constructs are like a plume floating in the air. When the wind stops blowing, they fall.
English only has one verb for esse and stare. I wonder if that has anything to do with this "immediatist" culture of yours.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:09 am

Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:


I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.
I consider this an aspect of indifference.

I need more.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:13 am

Kovacs wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Kovacs wrote:
If I thought about your post while I was having sex it would undermine the sex act, at least as long as I was thinking this thought.

My heartbeat is a repetitive activity.

My post seems to have no point, but it is actually so deep I am only channeling it.

I laughed a little.
It wasn't really directed at you. I actually meant as bitter.

I laughed because I understood, not because I thought it was directed at me.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:31 am

phoneutria wrote:
Poison IV wrote:

Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I have been ignoring you because you are childish and impudent, and because your argument is, as without-music puts it, "somophoric".
Besides, there is plenty of this "us versus them" discussion going on in other threads already, and I find it dull.

As to the rest of your post, YAWN.
Look past your little corner of the world, in your little bubble of time.

These social constructs are like a plume floating in the air. When the wind stops blowing, they fall.
English only has one verb for esse and stare. I wonder if that has anything to do with this "immediatist" culture of yours.


I don't know about you but I've evolved past sexually discriminant stereotypes. When asked about my ethnicity, I put '2-legged mammal' just to show how progressive I am.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:46 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Abstract wrote:
phoneutria wrote:

But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?


How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Obviously, in the example you gave, cow toeing to the political influence of your order is a sign of the order's power over you. You must play by their rules before you can rise the power ladder and become the rule maker.
such is almost always the case. and some times it is best not to rise to the top because that is how you get assassinated. And thus remain with less acclaimed power equally submitting to behavior expectations yet doing most of the "manipulation".
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:26 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:


I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.
I consider this an aspect of indifference.

I need more.
You'll have to do some work on this on your own.
I'm not going to spoon-feed you this and then, down the line, be accused of brain-washing you or infecting you or impregnating your mind with my essence.

Ask yourself:
What is it about someone which is perceptible about him but you cannot put your finger on, which makes him exude power or confidence?
Is it beauty, physical symmetry?
No, because many attractive people are invisible as personalities. Their energies do not match their appearance.
Is it money?
No, because many rich people seem bland and unimpressive when you meet them in person.

So, what is it?
It's an attitude.
Sometimes an attitude which does not make good first impressions as attitude is more about personality and not only movement, grace, a certain style.

Ask yourself why young women, before maturity forces them to put their sexual preferences on the back of more practical considerations, go for the "bad boys"?
These boys need not even be attractive, to look at, not wealthy, but they exude an energy.

What is it?

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:38 am

Abstract wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Abstract wrote:
phoneutria wrote:

But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?


How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Obviously, in the example you gave, cow toeing to the political influence of your order is a sign of the order's power over you. You must play by their rules before you can rise the power ladder and become the rule maker.
such is almost always the case. and some times it is best not to rise to the top because that is how you get assassinated. And thus remain with less acclaimed power equally submitting to behavior expectations yet doing most of the "manipulation".

Are you now more keen on the definition of power in the original post?
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:30 pm

Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:


I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.
I consider this an aspect of indifference.

I need more.
You'll have to do some work on this on your own.
I'm not going to spoon-feed you this and then, down the line, be accused of brain-washing you or infecting you or impregnating your mind with my essence.

Ask yourself:
What is it about someone which is perceptible about him but you cannot put your finger on, which makes him exude power or confidence?
Is it beauty, physical symmetry?
No, because many attractive people are invisible as personalities. Their energies do not match their appearance.
Is it money?
No, because many rich people seem bland and unimpressive when you meet them in person.

So, what is it?
It's an attitude.
Sometimes an attitude which does not make good first impressions as attitude is more about personality and not only movement, grace, a certain style.

Ask yourself why young women, before maturity forces them to put their sexual preferences on the back of more practical considerations, go for the "bad boys"?
These boys need not even be attractive, to look at, not wealthy, but they exude an energy.

What is it?

I am not concerned with these considerations.
It is easy for me to understand my own perception of people's power over me.

What is difficult, and it's what I need help with, is understanding the desire for power.
I'm one of them underachievers. I know you are, as well.

So, instead of thinking about the questions you asked, I like this one better: Why didn't you take over the world? Did you reach a sphere of power that satisfies you?
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:52 pm

Why do you assume that "taking over the world" is a sign of power?

Why do you assume that power means power over others?

I said it once and I'll say it again, the master/slave dynamic is one based on reciprocal dependence.
True power, to whatever extent that it is possible, begins with power over one's self, and is characterized by an indifference over all else which does not have an effect over this self.

The desire for power, like any projection, is a desire over what is missing in self.
Inevitably this search for what is missing begins with otherness.
People seek in others what they lack in themselves.

Since lack is a characteristic of existence they search in vain, as to exist is to lack, feeling it as need.
The other can never fulfill this need because he or she is also lacking.

The only answer is to limit your search by becoming self-aware. This stops you from looking for what you are missing in what can never fulfill it more than a short while.
It is to increase your tolerance of need/suffering so as to make the sensation of need more bearable or to habituate yourself with need/suffering to a degree where the average is a comfort zone - athletics/ascetics.
This is called strength.

In other words what you lack and how to deal with it is entirely a personal and solitary affair.
Others can distract you from this, providing a momentary relief, but they cannot do it for you.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:26 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Abstract wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Abstract wrote:
phoneutria wrote:

But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?


How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Obviously, in the example you gave, cow toeing to the political influence of your order is a sign of the order's power over you. You must play by their rules before you can rise the power ladder and become the rule maker.
such is almost always the case. and some times it is best not to rise to the top because that is how you get assassinated. And thus remain with less acclaimed power equally submitting to behavior expectations yet doing most of the "manipulation".

Are you now more keen on the definition of power in the original post?
Maybe... are you then agreeing that a woman has the potential to be more powerful then a man?

though I would still say that such is not a matter of controlling the environment alone as one still must submit to aspects of it... at the most it is a combination of the two... capacity to handle submission and capacity to control.

sometimes i think feminine nature is more about or has been more about submission
male's of dominance...

it would seem to me oddly that the strongest man has both powers.. the power to submit when it benefits the most or dominate when it is best...
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:50 pm

Satyr, are you saying, in sum, that power is a lack of will?
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:24 pm

Abstract wrote:
Maybe... are you then agreeing that a woman has the potential to be more powerful then a man?

I consider both men and women equally capable.
Historically, men have been more of a subduing force, while women more notably employed manipulation. Nature of the beast, I suppose, though examples abound for all sides and in all forms.

Quote :

though I would still say that such is not a matter of controlling the environment alone as one still must submit to aspects of it... at the most it is a combination of the two... capacity to handle submission and capacity to control.

Don't be stubborn, submission is not power. Submission is the admittal of a power over you.

Quote :

sometimes i think feminine nature is more about or has been more about submission
male's of dominance...

There is something in my psyche that speaks loudly about submissal. Once again I don't feel comfortable speaking for all women as I'm not exactly typical. I'm certain that a large portion of it is due to the conditioning I received in my education. I can attempt to expand on my own perception of it, if you would like me to.

[Quote
it would seem to me oddly that the strongest man has both powers.. the power to submit when it benefits the most or dominate when it is best...[/quote]

I still conflict with your notion of submissal as a form of power.
A man that yields to something hoping for some sort of benefit, is playing strategically.
However, if he had the power to, he would rather have the benefit without having to yield.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:17 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Satyr, are you saying, in sum, that power is a lack of will?
I'm saying that Will is the focus of power, the aggregate energies at an organism's disposal, upon the completion of power: omnipotence.

But power can be replaced by any notion of an absolute, such as omniscience, perfection, God, oneness, and the meaning and motive is the same: finding or attaining the absolute which is absent.
It is the completion of Becoming into Being.

Since the attainment of the absolute would entail an end to acting, striving, needing....it essentially means the end of existing.
Life and consciousness are now obsolete, in an end, THE END.

So, power or any concept relating to value, must always be considered a comparison....a degree...rather than a completion or an absolute.
I can never be powerful in a universal sense....I am always powerful in relation to an other.
I am always wise, or strong, or intelligent, or fast, or tall, or whatever in relation to an other or to an average otherness.

Therefore I am never absolutely without need, but always less in need in relation to another.

The other can also be a reference to one's own earlier state or to a projected, imagined, hoped for state.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:44 pm

phoneutria wrote:

Quote :

though I would still say that such is not a matter of controlling the environment alone as one still must submit to aspects of it... at the most it is a combination of the two... capacity to handle submission and capacity to control.

Don't be stubborn, submission is not power. Submission is the admittal of a power over you.
Submission can also be lieing to the person and saying they have power over you until you are in position to kill them. ( Perhaps you could look at is as "controlling" by means of faking of submission...I think of it as temporary submission)

Men wouldn't get killed as much if they new when to shut up. And take it up the ass.

phoneutria wrote:

Quote :

sometimes i think feminine nature is more about or has been more about submission
male's of dominance...

There is something in my psyche that speaks loudly about submissal. Once again I don't feel comfortable speaking for all women as I'm not exactly typical. I'm certain that a large portion of it is due to the conditioning I received in my education. I can attempt to expand on my own perception of it, if you would like me to.
Do expand. most modes of thought seem to be memes they come and go... enjoyment in this then in that...

phoneutria wrote:

Quote :

it would seem to me oddly that the strongest man has both powers.. the power to submit when it benefits the most or dominate when it is best...

I still conflict with your notion of submissal as a form of power.
A man that yields to something hoping for some sort of benefit, is playing strategically.
However, if he had the power to, he would rather have the benefit without having to yield.
Perhaps you just don't like the use of that particular metaphor as it holds negative connotations for you? Call it submissal or call it control... it can be called either, I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:28 pm

Satyr wrote:
I'm saying that Will is the focus of power, the aggregate energies at an organism's disposal, upon the completion of power: omnipotence.

Obviously. Will is the focus of... everything.
What I have a difficulty accepting, and I suppose is the whole reason for this thread to exist, is will to power as a metaphysical doctrine. And...

Quote :

But power can be replaced by any notion of an absolute, such as omniscience, perfection, God, oneness, and the meaning and motive is the same: finding or attaining the absolute which is absent.
It is the completion of Becoming into Being.

... it seems you have a problem with that as well.

Quote :

Since the attainment of the absolute would entail an end to acting, striving, needing....it essentially means the end of existing.
Life and consciousness are now obsolete, in an end, THE END.

The gods did enjoy food, drink, and play.

Quote :

So, power or any concept relating to value, must always be considered a comparison....a degree...rather than a completion or an absolute.
I can never be powerful in a universal sense....I am always powerful in relation to an other.
I am always wise, or strong, or intelligent, or fast, or tall, or whatever in relation to an other or to an average otherness.

Therefore I am never absolutely without need, but always less in need in relation to another.

The other can also be a reference to one's own earlier state or to a projected, imagined, hoped for state.

When you were talking about disinterestedness before, and I asked you about lack of will, I was hoping that you would have gone further on that line.
Here is what I came up with.
You are only able to exercise any power over me if you can create any sort of interest in me.
If you have nothing that I want, you have no power over me.
If nobody has anything that I want, nobody has power over me.
By controlling my will, I create a situation in which I alone have power over myself.
In absolute terms, if I can eliminate will altogether, I become powerful.

I don't know if this is what you meant, but it sort of makes sense in a faqir sort of way.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:01 pm

phoneutria wrote:

Obviously. Will is the focus of... everything.
No Will is not the focus of everything.
Learning to use the proper words in the proper order is a first step in understanding.
Words relate to each other, like colors do on a canvas.

phoneutria wrote:
What I have a difficulty accepting, and I suppose is the whole reason for this thread to exist, is will to power as a metaphysical doctrine. And...
Then don't.
I'm not pushing Nietzsche on you, my sweet.

Try "Will to beauty"..."Will to Understanding"...."Will to unity"..."Will to Harmony"..."Will to God"...any term denoting an absolute ideal will do.

phoneutria wrote:
... it seems you have a problem with that as well.
No...I am quite happy with Becoming...I don't want to BE anything.
To Be is to end Becoming...and so you end your self.

phoneutria wrote:
The gods did enjoy food, drink, and play.
With measure.

phoneutria wrote:
When you were talking about disinterestedness before, and I asked you about lack of will, I was hoping that you would have gone further on that line.
Here is what I came up with.
You are only able to exercise any power over me if you can create any sort of interest in me.
If you have nothing that I want, you have no power over me.
If nobody has anything that I want, nobody has power over me.
By controlling my will, I create a situation in which I alone have power over myself.
Yes.
But given that there are o absolutes all of this is a matter of degree and a comparison.

The more powerful one is the one who needs from the other far less than he or she needs from him.
This is why power is attractive without meaning to.

The "bad boy" is attractive to the girls because he does not care about them, on a personal level as much as they care about him.
He is more indifferent to them individually.

phoneutria wrote:
In absolute terms, if I can eliminate will altogether, I become powerful.
Yes, if you mean "power" in the absolute sense: omnipotence.

Now notice how this also means the end of you.
To will the absolute in any form, projected in any way: God, Power, Knowledge, etc. is essentially a will towards self-annihilation or self-negation or self-obsolescence.

phoneutria wrote:
I don't know if this is what you meant, but it sort of makes sense in a faqir sort of way.
Close enough.

So contentment is a matter of limiting what you need or controlling what you need or more efficiently dedicating energies in acquiring specific things you need by not wasting energies pursuing things that you do not really need, even if you do not know it.

Contentment is a matter of efficiency.

The body is content when its immediate needs are taken care of easily.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:45 am

Satyr wrote:
]No Will is not the focus of everything.
Learning to use the proper words in the proper order is a first step in understanding.
Words relate to each other, like colors do on a canvas.

Will is the focus of everything pertaining human nature. That is what we are talking about.
A particular will drives you to become.

Quote :
Then don't.
I'm not pushing Nietzsche on you, my sweet.

Try "Will to beauty"..."Will to Understanding"...."Will to unity"..."Will to Harmony"..."Will to God"...any term denoting an absolute ideal will do.

Well, look at the premise of this thread. It states that men desire power.
With that in mind, can I understand that you disagree with that premise?
Couldn't you as easily say that behind a will to beauty, understanding, etc, there is a desire for power?

Quote :
No...I am quite happy with Becoming...I don't want to BE anything.
To Be is to end Becoming...and so you end your self.

This to me sounds like a labor oriented mentality.
I find that the opposite is true, that when the pressure of becoming acts upon you, you are not quite yourself, but being led by the need to act toward becoming.
It is when that pressure is lifted, in the time for play, that the being is revealed.

Quote :
Yes.
But given that there are o absolutes all of this is a matter of degree and a comparison.

The more powerful one is the one who needs from the other far less than he or she needs from him.
This is why power is attractive without meaning to.

It is only attractive as a secondary attribute. There isn't a direct correlation.

Quote :

The "bad boy" is attractive to the girls because he does not care about them, on a personal level as much as they care about him.
He is more indifferent to them individually.

It is a bit presumptuous of you to speak with such confidence about what a girl finds attractive, don't you think?

Quote :
Yes, if you mean "power" in the absolute sense: omnipotence.

Now notice how this also means the end of you.
To will the absolute in any form, projected in any way: God, Power, Knowledge, etc. is essentially a will towards self-annihilation or self-negation or self-obsolescence.

No need to repeat, vide above.

Quote :
Close enough.

So contentment is a matter of limiting what you need or controlling what you need or more efficiently dedicating energies in acquiring specific things you need by not wasting energies pursuing things that you do not really need, even if you do not know it.

Contentment is a matter of efficiency.

The body is content when its immediate needs are taken care of easily.

A mind which dreams of what it can't have is a restless one.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:09 pm

phoneutria wrote:

Will is the focus of everything pertaining human nature. That is what we are talking about.
A particular will drives you to become.
Will is the focus of the emerging unity's aggregate energies upon an object/objective.
Need is how it is felt; desire is how it calls it.

All life has Will, including plants.
It is not only human.
Intelligence allows for the more efficient focus of energies and so it offers an advantage in this regard.

phoneutria wrote:
Well, look at the premise of this thread. It states that men desire power.
Which is simplistic as ALL desires power.
Power is another name for the absent absolute or the projected object/objective.

phoneutria wrote:
Couldn't you as easily say that behind a will to beauty, understanding, etc, there is a desire for power?

phoneutria wrote:
This to me sounds like a labor oriented mentality.
Life is a constant struggle.

phoneutria wrote:
I find that the opposite is true, that when the pressure of becoming acts upon you, you are not quite yourself, but being led by the need to act toward becoming.
It's because you do not know yourself and you abandon yourself to instinct.
Typically female.

phoneutria wrote:
It is when that pressure is lifted, in the time for play, that the being is revealed.
There is no being. That's another term for the absent absolute: the object/objective.
It is in time of "play", abandonment, that the organism surrenders to instinct, to blind need...and it truly reveals itself.
Reason not only tries to hide this self but it tries to control it.

phoneutria wrote:
It is only attractive as a secondary attribute. There isn't a direct correlation.
How naive.

phoneutria wrote:
It is a bit presumptuous of you to speak with such confidence about what a girl finds attractive, don't you think?
Is it less presumptuous to imply, without actually stating hit, that I am incorrect?

I see a dog wag its tail. I cannot know what the dog is thinking.
How do I presume to know that it is friendly towards me?

phoneutria wrote:
A mind which dreams of what it can't have is a restless one.
Restless, another term for active.
Ergo all life is active.

The ideal is never attained, the object/objective never reached....the journey, the activity, towards it, and how close you get to it, is what defines you.

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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:06 pm

I would sum up the previous few posts thusly:

The driving force of all living creatures is the will to obtain/achieve that which it lacks.

Power is not so much a tool for obtaining that goal, as it is an indicator of how far you have advanced toward the goal.

The hypotetical all powerful being is one that lacks nothing, and thus desires nothing, and thus cannot be manipulated.


Opinions, please.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:55 am

phoneutria wrote:
I would sum up the previous few posts thusly:

The driving force of all living creatures is the will to obtain/achieve that which it lacks.

Power is not so much a tool for obtaining that goal, as it is an indicator of how far you have advanced toward the goal.

The hypotetical all powerful being is one that lacks nothing, and thus desires nothing, and thus cannot be manipulated.


Opinions, please.

I lack a lot of stuff I do not wish to obtain. Material or otherwise. So I disagree. I do not think living things want to obtain that which it lacks. I think this idea is too ambiguous. Why even add this "will" and not do away with it? I think living things are unconscious, without this "will" and they are no in control of their environment, only bits and pieces just like unliving things.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:30 pm

If you don't need or desire it, you don't lack it.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:02 pm

I do lack the smell of a dog, the horns of a goat, the something of something. Yet I do not need it. You can't say I do not lack it.

By your logic. A man doesn't lack goat horns because he doesn't need them. But a man does lack goat horns, since humans do not posses horns of goats.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:11 pm

If the word "lack" doesn't suit you, pick one that does.
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PostSubject: Re: Men desire power Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:51 pm

Dear sweet mother of God!!!

Listen, lack is a feeling with no object.
I sense it as need.
Now, I might see something which I might think might fulfill this need, or I might evolve ways of sensing when the otherness I perceive has elements which I lack, as in nutrients, but my need is never extinguished, the lack is never fulfilled...it is only temporarily abated.

Use whatever fucking term you wish.

Need is the sensation of existing.
There is only one need...it is the sensation of an absence. This can be imagined or projected as anything.
For all intensive purposes let us call it the lack of an absolute...or the lack of perfection, or oneness, or God, or immortality.
All these terms designate human conception of what is lacking, as what is absent can be anything and everything precisely because it is absent.
That's why a child can then use horns or a dog's smell to designate it.

The trick is not to designate the different manifestations of lack as being what is missing, for they are a product of lack themselves, but to delve deeper and consider why horns come about or why there is a dog, and a cat, a a horses arse, instead of one big happy family of oneness?

Need is simply the sensation of a unity, an emergent unity, striving to maintain itself in entropy; it is the sensation of resistance: life resisting death; order resisting disorder.
Because need is the sensation of existing, whatever object/objective (ideal, thing, idea etc.) you can define this absence as is irrelevant, as it is the very definition of absence: non-existence.

Desire is the name given to the sensation of need when it finds an object/objective which it thinks, or rather feels in the early development of life, or has evolved to consider as promising fulfillment.

Will, is the focus of desire upon this object/objective.

Want is a desire minus the passion, the instinctual element.
Therefore a want can be manufactured by connecting it to one or more desires, corresponding to need.

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